E259: Sex and Intimacy After Kids: What Actually Works (From Parents Who've Figured It Out)

At some point, you have to decide, are you going to keep proving why it can't work or start figuring out how it can, because one path keeps you stuck exactly where you are and the other leads to a relationship that actually feels alive again. And you both deserve that. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience. And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step-by-step techniques for improving yours. Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. This episode is for the sleep deprived, the time starved, the diaper changing, homework helping parents who still want to keep the spark alive. We asked our parenting community about their top tips for other parents. So we're going to be reading these real responses from other moms and dads, pulling out the practical, doable ideas you can try tonight or this weekend, and giving you some honest encouragement for making intimacy a priority again, even with kids in the house. Short, simple, realistic. This episode is full of tiny rituals, surprising hacks and hard one wisdom that actually works for busy parents. But before we get into it, I think we kind of need to address the elephant in the room. Or the elephant in the room for some people. The elephant that's, or maybe it's the elephant that's not in the room. Why do we, these two jokers, What the hell do we think we're doing? These two jokers who don't have kids. Why do we talk to parents and give them tips and advice for how to keep the spark alive? Like we don't have kids ourselves. We don't know what it's like. We can't relate. Who the fuck do we think we are? I mean, honestly, we get asked it in that way very often. I mean, those people probably are not going to like our advice anyway. The who do you think you are? Who do you think you are? Yeah, we're probably not going to run them over. We're probably not for you anyway. But, um. Well, maybe we can, we'll speak to the people who are like, Well, yeah, that's a good point. It's just like a little, it's a little eye raise. Like, really guys? Like, hmm, I don't know about this. Yeah, maybe you saw the title of this episode and had a little eyebrow raise. Like, really guys? Okay. So let's talk about it. Okay. First and foremost, the number one reason why we talk to parents and give advice for parents is because our community begged us to. I remember Crystal Clear having this conversation with our friend Amy Kiefer herself and expecting an empower. And I think our audience is overlap a lot. So I'm sure a lot of people listening know her. I remember talking to her and saying, Amy, we have been getting so many requests from parents to make content. Like, people will like watch one of our reels and say like, well, how does this work for parents or what can parents do? We were also getting a lot of requests to talk about how do I talk to my kid about sex? And Amy was even like had, had sent me some questions about, um, you know, stuff like parenting related stuff too that had come from her community. We did like podcast interviews with them, all kinds of stuff. And I was like, I feel like we can't do this. Like we don't have kids ourselves. I'm kind of honestly, I'm a little nervous to wade into this territory. And I remember her telling me like, you have to do this, not, not in a like you have to do this or else. But I just remember her saying like Vanessa, you have so many tools, so much wisdom, so much empathy and compassion. Like, and nobody else is doing this. Like we need you. The parents need you. The truth is that they're just, there aren't very many sex therapists out there. We are far and few between there are more of us. Like, you know, we're growing slowly, but there just really aren't that many of us. And, you know, people would reach out to us and say, well, do you have any recommendations for accounts that are just like yours, but they're parents? And I literally don't. I don't have any recommendations. I don't know anybody else who's doing what we're doing, but specifically, you know, for parents. And I think both Xander and I, we are both natural helpers. Like when somebody asks us for help, when somebody, you know, and especially when we feel like there's something that we could do to help, it is like, we want to help, we want to jump in and do what we can. And like even, you know, I don't want to make this whole episode like about this, but like even when we started talking about parenting stuff and we started getting some blow back about it of people saying like, you don't know what you're talking about. Like you're not parents. There's no way you can ever understand. Like, I remember having another conversation with Amy they're cranky. They're mad. I don't know. I don't know if I want to do this anymore. And she's like, you know, we're like, we parents, all that you're feeling right now is that we parents are just struggling so hard. And it's really easy to take all that overwhelm and frustration and anxiety and just complete like up to here. It's so easy to take all of that energy and like project it out onto other people, but like keep going, please keep going. So we did keep going. But I mean, the second reason which is just as important is that, you know, I feel comfortable talking about this topic because I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist with a master's degree in counseling. Like I have literally been trained, it's part of my degree to work with kids and families. I had to spend thousands of hours. Yeah, just to get your license. Just to get my license. Yeah. I mean, the state of California recognizes you as a marriage and family therapist. You've gone through all the training, all the qualifications. And part of that is thousands and thousands of hours actually working with a whole range of people in the marriage and family, you know, individuals, partners, couples, and children. Yeah. I mean, and you like you're just along for the ride. I am along for the ride. I will gladly admit it. But it is kind of interesting because I mean, this was the very thing that was my blockage to even getting involved in any of our business at the beginning was it was like, you know, because I've had a front row seat to Vanessa getting to where she is today on, you know, I met Vanessa before she went back to grad school. And so I watched her go through grad school. I watched her get through grad school faster than anybody in her program ever had and get her license faster than anybody ever had and blow through those hours. Oh my God, it was it was insane. Like what you were doing. I mean, this is just like how passionate Vanessa is, how dead set she was on getting on getting into sex therapy. And, you know, part of that was getting her license, which was like, you know, you were you were like going to like you were going to like a school totally on the other end of the city every day to basically be like the school therapist, you know, and, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of those thousands of hours were were really hard one hours, so to speak. So I watched Vanessa go through all this and study for the exam because it's not easy the licensing exam. It's like a real thing, you know, it's like, you know, it's like getting licensed to be a doctor or, you know, any of those other things like you have to you have to really understand how to do this. And so when Vanessa wanted me to get involved, I was like, well, who the hell am I to be doing that? Like I just saw you put your blood, sweat and tears into all of this and I haven't done that. But on the flip side, I think that it is bringing it is bringing that every day. Non trained. I mean, at this point, I have a lot of unofficial training. Nothing official. No, no, no state boards recognize me. But other than official cool dude, but, but yeah, no, I mean, it's like, you know, parents aren't professionals. Parents are just everyday people figuring out how to be parents, right? And I'm, I'm, you know, the partner of you, I'm figuring out how to be a good husband. I'm figuring out how to be in a relationship. I'm, you know, I'm figuring out all the stuff. And I think that it's really helpful to also have the perspective of someone that is a bit more of the layman, the everyday person. But yeah, but to be fair, like if I didn't have this degree, if we were just too, you know, regular dude and regular dude at like, we would not talk about this at all. Yeah, we wouldn't be getting into this. Yeah. So it's really just because of that, you know, that training that I have, it's literally a part of my training. And I think it's really important for people to recognize that it is not a therapist's job to have the exact same life experiences as their clients. We are actually trained as therapists to put aside our personal experiences because that can taint therapy. If we think like, oh, I've been through that. I have the same experience. I know what you're going through. I know what you're talking about. Like my way or the highway. Yeah, I can get in the way of it. So as therapists, like we treat tons and tons of clients who have experiences that we don't share. It's very rare actually that I've had like the same experience as somebody that I'm working with. And just like most doctors who are not like family practice doctors, but like specialists, most specialist medical professionals have never had the thing that they specialize in. Like most cancer doctors have never had the type of cancer that they treat. You know, most, you know, I don't know, whatever, like I'm trying to think of some really specialist doctor, like, you know, it's like gastroenterologists like aren't dealing with IBS, for example. So yeah, it's weird how in so many areas we want someone that has the life experience, but then in other areas, we don't want that. Yeah. I mean, even the even more simple example is like there are tons of like pediatricians and teachers that don't have kids too. Oh yeah. I think a teacher is such a good example because it's like directly working with kids. Honestly, being a teacher, it is really, it is the profession of being a teacher given the way that hours work and like the complete lack of flexibility of that job makes it very hard to be a parent, especially a female parent like a mother. Yeah. So like there are a lot of female teachers especially that don't have kids or don't have kids yet or have decided not to have kids and still teach kids. You know, I have never heard of someone being like, ooh, I don't want to send my kid to this person's class because they don't get what it's like to have kids. Yeah. Have you ever heard that? Like, no. Yeah. That's wild. It's like, well, no, this person chose this profession and deals with kids every single day, year after year after year, they probably know what they're doing. And I will finally just to like wrap this up and then we'll get into the tips. Like, I do want to say I feel proud of the way that we talk to parents. I, you know, like we are very clear that we will never, ever understand what it's like. We will never know what it's like to be in your shoes and we are not even going to attempt to pretend that we know what it's like. I think we have a really deep respect for and empathy for how hard it is for parents to keep the spark alive when you are being pulled in a million different directions, when you are doing this incredibly overwhelming job, when you are, you know, battling for lack of time, lack of privacy, lack of energy. I think even just seeing my sister become a parent for the first time, you know, in these last few months has given us even more respect for like, holy shit, this is the hardest fucking job in the world. And even if we did have kids of our own, I think that we would still be really careful about not bringing our own personal experience too much into it. Like, assuming, oh, well, this works for our kids. This is what works for our family. This is what works for us as parents. So therefore, it should work for you. And if it doesn't, something must be wrong with you. Yeah, I actually don't want that kind of advice. That sucks. Yeah, I see it like, especially online on social media, like I see a ton of parent on parent shaming of like, Oh my God, you do that. Ew, you don't do that. Like a good parent wouldn't do that. A good parent does do this. You know, like it's there's so much judgment that goes on around like, you know, this is what works for my family. So you should be doing it too. So I think in a lot of ways, actually, us not being parents is beneficial because we don't come into it with that judgment. Yeah, we don't have any baggage around it. Yeah. So just wanted to like share that up top. But with this episode, we thought it would be nice for you to hear directly from other parents. So we turn to the parents in our community over on Instagram. If you're not following us, please do. We're at Vanessa and Xander Xander's with an X. We do a lot of like polls and stuff to like create these episodes. So we love hearing from you on Instagram. So we asked our community, like if you're a parent, what tricks, tips, techniques, have you learned from us about how to keep your relationship and your sex life flourishing? Or like, what are the specific ways that you have tweaked our advice to make it work for your unique relationship, your unique family? Do you have a pep talk or maybe some tough love for other parents, especially the parents who feel like it's just not possible to keep the spark alive as parents? It's, it's, I love, I love hearing from people in our, in our community about how they have taken a good nugget of advice or the general concept and then adjusted it to meet their specific relationship, their specific family, their situation. Because I really think that there's two types of people in the world that I can grossly simplify things. There are people, especially in this is just exacerbated on social media where we have these little tiny soundbite clips of like, you should do this, there's people that hear a tip and go, well, that won't work for me. Swipe, or that won't work for me. Comment, that won't work for me. You obviously have never had blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or there's people that hear something and go, hmm, that's interesting. I wonder how I could make that work for me. And we really, I think our community is full of people in that ladder, that how can I make that work for me category? I mean, because that shows that you're open-minded, you're curious, and you want to find things that work for you. If you're stuck in the, I can only hear a tip and like, it has to apply one for one to me for me to listen to it. It's like, you're going to struggle to find advice. Like you were, you're going to end up with very narrow specific pieces of advice from people whose lives look exactly like you, whose experiences look exactly like you. And you're not ever going to, you know, kind of see how other people live or operate or, you know, think about what else could be possible for you. I also think there's something to be said about like, if you see something and you're like, that is not going to work for me. Cool. Just go to the next one. Yeah. Like not everything. And that's exactly the same for this episode too. Like we're going to go over a ton of different tips. If you hear one, like I would encourage you to go into, like, listen to each one and think, is there a way this could work for us? Is there, you know, if I'm, if I'm getting this knee-jerk reaction of like, I can't do that, we can't do that, like ask yourself, is there a way we could? Is there a way we could tweak it or adjust it? But if you have that curiosity and you're like, no, like that just is not going to work for us for this season of life for our kids, that's fine. Like it, not everything has to work for you. I think that, like the way that we approach our content and, you know, this episode is like, here's a fucking buffet of things. And just like in a buffet, like you walk through and you say, oh, that one looks good to me. Oh, I don't want to try that one. That I'm not sure. Let me put a little bit on my plate and I'll try it. Ooh, that I definitely know I'm going to like, you know, it's like, so we just have to like, we have to have a level of discernment of, of, of going through things. But yeah, if you see something and you're like, I don't even want to try that. Don't you don't have to. Yeah. I think the best way to evaluate it is try to delay the, could this work for me question and first say, just first think, is this, am I curious about this? Does this sound exciting or interesting? This tip and then, you know, not only the tip, but like what the promise of the tip is, oh, you should do x, y, z because then you will get ABC, right? If you're like, ooh, yeah, I want that. That sounds good or exciting to me. If I follow it at face value, that's going to be a struggle to implement. But how could I make this work for me? So, you know, I think a lot of people just go immediately to, oh, here's someone that I trust and they're giving me a tip. I should do that. That's going to be good for me without even thinking like, do I even want to do this? Does this even sound good to me? So, yeah, I think it's so important to just separate those two things. Let's take the practicality out of it entirely. Because I think it's so easy to get stuck in that and just go like, oh, God, no, this could never work. But it's like, no, like, let's get excited about, okay, yeah, I would love to do that. Making out every night sounds awesome. I like the idea of that. Spoiler alert. I like the idea of that. But, you know, and then you go, okay, all right, now let's think about implementing. All right, I am loving Cozy Earth lately because they just won me some major brownie points with my sister. I gifted her there, one of their new robes. And she is so obsessed with it, literally just yesterday. She was like, losing her mind. This is the best robe I've ever had. Thank you so much. Her husband's trying to steal it from her. She won't let him wear it. Both of my parents were like, can we get one of those robes too? So Cozy Earth, they're just knocking it out of the park with all of their new products. We have loved Cozy Earth for a long time because their sheets, their towels are incredible. Their clothing, we both have the jogger sets and really love them. They're super comfy. And I mean, literally it's in the name Cozy Earth. Like, it's very cozy. They also have these clogs that have a great cushioned footbed. They're really soft, like easy slip-ons. We're big, slipper people around the house. So, I mean, we haven't tried a product from Cozy Earth that we haven't absolutely loved. Yeah, that's true. So if you want to experience the joys of Cozy Earth, we seriously cannot recommend them enough. This spring, give yourself the kind of comfort that lives with you all day, not just the moment you get home. Head to CozyEarth.com and use our code PILLOW for an exclusive 20% off. And if you see a post-purchase survey, please mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here on Pillow Talks. Cozy Earth, comfort lives here. Here at the Pillow Talks podcast, we often get asked for mattress recommendations. I mean, come on, what are we talking about? Yeah, mattress is an important part of your bed, which is great for sleeping and great for your other activities. And we are so thrilled to have an incredible recommendation for you because it also brings together our passion for non-toxic living. I don't know if you know this, but there are a lot of not-so-great materials in most mattresses. So we have to tell you about Birch mattresses. They use organic fair trade cotton, organic wool, and natural latex to create luxurious mattresses that are designed to give you the best night of sleep. And we have been sleeping on our Birch mattress for a while. It is incredible. And we're pretty picky about mattresses too. We absolutely love this mattress. Birch makes it really easy for you to try out their mattresses. So they ship them directly to your door. It comes rolled up in a box, super easy to set up. And because they know you just have to sleep on a mattress to really get a sense and a feel for it, they offer a 120-night risk-free trial so you can see if you love it. But seriously, this is such a comfortable mattress. And the fact that it's made out of natural and organic materials honestly makes such a huge difference. And Birch has an incredible offer for you. Birch is having a flash sale for Sleep Awareness Month, so you can go to birchliving.com slash pillow talks to get 27% off site-wide. This is exclusive for listeners of pillow talks. That's birchliving.com slash pillow talks. I spent the last few nights sleeping in a hotel. And when I tell you, I was so happy to get back home to my birch natural mattress. We are obsessed with this mattress. It's just the perfect balance of really supportive but also feels very cozy. And I've been on a journey lately to really find more natural products and researching a lot of crappy ingredients and chemicals that get used in so many aspects of our lives. Birch makes fiberglass-free mattresses with natural and organic materials. They're free from polyurethane foams, which can cause harmful off-gassing. You spend so much time in your bed. Yeah, more than pretty much anywhere. It should be a safe place for you to sleep. So we love our birch mattress. I do know, of course, mattresses are a personal thing, right? Like, you can't know if you're going to like it unless you sleep on it. But birch makes this really easy. They have a 120-night risk-free trial. So they ship their mattress straight to you in a really convenient box, just pops right open, super easy to set up. And you've got 120 nights to check it out. And they are giving us an incredible deal exclusively for pillow talks listeners. We want all of our listeners to enjoy a deep, restful night's sleep because also, when you have a good night's sleep, you're more likely to have more intimacy. Every study just came out 14% more likely. And they are having a Memorial Day sale. Go to birchliving.com slash pillow talks for 27% off-site-wide. That's birchliving.com slash pillow talks and get 27% off-site-wide. Birchliving.com slash pillow talks. So let's go. I have to admit, lately I have been in a season of life where I'm just like reaching for pajamas every day. I'm like not getting dressed. And I decided I need to take this up a notch. I can't just be living in workout pants. So I bought this incredible set from Quint. It's a jogger set. So it's like joggers and a sweater. But it is made from cashmere, Mongolian cashmere. So it's like elevated. It's not pajamas. It's elevated. It's cashmere. It doesn't look like pajamas, but it feels like pajamas. I was actually so obsessed with it. I bought it twice. And this is my own money. This is not because they're a podcast sponsor. I bought it two times with my own money in gray and in black. It looks great. I encourage you to wear this every day. I have a ton of stuff from Quint. They not only make clothing, but they also have tons of home goods. I mean, they're always adding new categories every time I go on their website. I'm like, wow, I can't believe they sell this too. And everything that we've bought has been high quality, but very, very affordably priced. Everything is 50 to 80% less than you would find at similar brands because they work with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So premium materials without all of the markup. Refresh your every day with luxury. You'll actually use head to quints.com slash pillow for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. I've never seen a return policy like that. Yeah, that's great. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash pillow for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com slash pillow. Let's get to our responses from parents. There was by far and away a number one winner, the most commonly referenced thing. Surprise, surprise. It's also one of the most hated things. I know I'm so glad to see this. I'm doing a little dance in my chair right now. If you're not watching the video on YouTube, it was scheduling sex. By far and away, number one, somebody said you guys really changed our minds about it. We are big fans of scheduling sex. I think it gets such a bad rap. People think that it means sex life is dead. We have to schedule it. The reality is it's not about scheduling it with the same level of dread that you schedule your dentist appointments. We actually don't use the word scheduled sex. We just talk about being intentional. The exact same way that you plan a date night, like, hey, it's this acknowledgement that we are busy. Life is busy. Things don't just happen spontaneously, especially when you have a family that's full and busy and chaotic. With date night, it's this intentionality of time for you and me is important. We want to carve it out. We want to make sure it happens. Let's put it on the calendar. Let's make a plan for it. Then we get excited about it. We look at that as such a good thing. If your partner came to you and said, hey, do you want to have a date night with me? I made a reservation. I'm going to put it on the calendar for Friday night. Does that work for you? You would be so touched. Oh my god, you were thinking of me and you wanted to spend time with me and you made an effort. If we do that with emotional intimacy, why do we treat physical intimacy so different? It's the same thing. It's this recognition that life is busy. It's a recognition that we are important to each other. We want to make sure that we continue to have time together, that we make space for each other in our busy lives. Why is it any different? I think that there's this fallacy or this mistaken idea that, oh, when things are better between us, when things are easier between us, then we'll just start having more sex. But it's actually the opposite. I feel like this really deserves this entire own podcast episode. We were just starting to read a really interesting study yesterday. I haven't read the entire thing, so I'm just going to go over just the super high level. But basically, it was some researchers followed couples, I believe it was over four years, and they found something really, really interesting. There was a directional relationship. The more sex that you have, the happier, the more satisfied you are with your relationship. It's not the other way around. You can find a correlation between two things where it's like, oh, when one increases, the other increases, but also when the other increases, the other increases. We don't know what the direction is. That's what a lot of initial research gets at, is like, oh, two things are related to each other, but we don't know the direction of the relationship. In this, they studied, they tested that. Oh, does one cause the other, or does the other cause the one? And they found that, yes, the more sex that you have, the happier you are with your relationship. It's not the other way around. I think a lot of people thought, oh, well, people who are generally more satisfied with their relationships or happier with their relationship are going to have more sex. So as the relationship improves, the sex life improves. But they did not find that. They found the exact opposite. I think a lot of people go, oh, well, it doesn't, I don't want to work on my sex life right now because things are bad between us. And ironically, things are much more likely to get good between you if you work on your sex life first. And scheduling sex literally plugs that hole. It solves that problem. And so it's not surprising to me that that is the most common response. It's a, it is a hated idea. People don't like the idea of it. But once they start doing it, it's undeniable what the result is. Yeah. And make your summer with Starbucks. Make it fun. Make it bright. Make it yellow. Make it unexpected. Make it miss the last train. Make it Friday vibes all week. Make it completely bananas. Make it outshaking espresso, latte or matcha latte. Make it yours. Discover the new Starbucks iced caramelized banana range today. They'll make your summer. Subject to availability while stocks last. So with scheduling sex, the key really is how you schedule it. It makes all the difference in the world. So we actually have an entire podcast episode breaking down like exactly how to schedule sex the right way. I think this is probably what this person was referring to, with like, you really changed our minds about it. So definitely scroll back. It was just within the last couple of months. So it's a relatively recent episode. So go check that one out. Okay. Next, we had some tips about communication. One parent said, we try not to watch your content alone. We share it with each other, watch it together and then talk about it, which I was also so glad to see because that's really the whole intent behind how we approach our content. Like we try to create content that opens up conversations between partners, especially over on Instagram, we're at Vanessa and Xander again. You know, I think it's so much easier to send your partner a funny reel and like have that open up a conversation then to have to go up to your partner and be like, we have to talk and we need to talk about our sex life. Yeah. And I think taking that a step further, and I see here, somebody else mentioned this, which is awesome. So I'm just going to say it, taking that a step further. I think that when you start watching any kind of self development stuff and you know, what we do, I think consider self development, relationship development, any kind of thing where it's like, requires us to work on something about ourselves or together. It's easy to start watching that alone and be like, oh, God, I want that, but I can't have that because my partner isn't working on it or like, oh, they're not going to want to. And it's like the more that you watch on your own, you're going to actually start building resentment towards your partner because you're either creating a story in your head. Oh, they won't do this or not. They're never going to do this. They're not open to this idea. Or like, you know, I so it's sort of like resentment without your partner even being aware, or maybe your partner is aware, you are trying to show them stuff, they're not into it. So then you're like, oh, I'm just going to keep watching on my own. And, you know, I'm not trying to tell you to not watch our stuff alone. But I do think that if you are kind of like binging certain content, because you want it really bad and your partner is not on board, it's you're actually driving a wedge in between you two, which can be a problem. So, yeah, someone else wrote like, yeah, we don't let our resentment build. And I think that that is washing our stuff together is really helpful for that. But also, you know, I think that can be applied to any element of your relationships, understanding that resentment is actually, if I'm feeling resentment, that's a me problem. It's not a Vanessa problem. Resentment is me playing something over and over and over without checking in with my partner about it. And that's where the emotion of resentment comes from is me being upset, or holding something in, or not being happy with something and not communicating it. And so, being in agreement and understanding of what resentment actually is, because I think so many people get this wrong, like, oh, I'm resentful of you because you did XYZ. And no, you can be upset with someone for them doing XYZ. If you're resentful about something, it means that you have not been sharing something with your partner. You've not been open, you've not been honest, you've not been transparent with them about something. And so, I think that once we understand that, we go, oh, so it's actually us against resentment together, us as a couple. So, like, if I'm feeling something, I need to communicate with my partner about that. Okay, another parent said, we learned from you guys to talk about sex a lot, just acknowledging where we are, even if we're not happy with the reality. Yeah, I think this is one of the most practical and doable tips that we give to parents is just, and really, any couple who's in a dry spell, regardless of if your parents are not, is just acknowledging what is going on. Because so often what happens is people feel embarrassed that they're in a dry spell, that they're feeling disconnected, and they just want to bury their heads in the sand. They don't want to have to acknowledge what's going on because it makes it feel like even more painful to have to acknowledge it. But when you don't acknowledge it, it just leaves your partner spinning out wondering what's going on. Do they care? Have they noticed? Yeah, do they care at all? Do they realize how long it's been? And we can all create pretty crazy stories in our head of what's going on. So, even if, like, let's say you're in a really challenging season of life, and even if you know, like, nothing can change right now. I am at 150%. I don't have the capacity for anything else. We've got XYZ on our plates. This is not going to change in the next month or two months or whatever it is. Just acknowledging to your partner makes all the difference in the world. So it can be something like, hey, I just want to acknowledge, I know it's been a while, and I'm really bummed about that because I miss you and I miss us. And I also know we're just in a really tough season right now, and there's just not the space for us to connect the way I know we both want to. But I just want you to know, like, I'm excited for us to get out of this season. Or even if it's something like, I'm doing XYZ to try to get out of this tough place so that we can connect more. Just something like that, like, it truly makes such a big difference. Okay, next up, we had some tips in the emotional intimacy realm. So one parent said, we offer acknowledgement to each other just like compliments, and it goes a long way. Your partner wants to feel seen. Yep. Oh my god, this is one of those things. I was just listening to another podcast episode, and I can't remember who it was, but somebody was like, life is lived in the details. I think so many of us, we think about the bigger picture things, the grand gestures, like the big moment. But life is truly, actually, maybe I'll put my own spin on it. Like life is lived in the simple moments, or intimacy is created in those small, simple moments. Like that's really what intimacy is all about is like these little things that we can do on a daily basis. And something like giving your partner a compliment. How fucking easy is that a compliment is free? It takes you like three seconds to say it, but you feel good. Like it feels good for you to say it. It feels super good for your partner to hear it. Like who has not had the experience of like, you're so fucking overwhelmed, you're exhausted, you're just like, feel like a tiny little husk of a human being, and your partner like or somebody like somebody gives you a compliment and you're like, I fucking needed that. I needed that so badly. Like just a few little words can just make your day totally change your energy, make you feel completely different. And like, it's so easy, right? Yeah, I think that we fall so many of us fall into the trap in relationships of getting into it almost feeling transactional. Like we've split up. Oh, like you feel like like business partners. Yeah, like we split up running the household and the kids and all this stuff and you do this, I do that. That's my area. That's your area. And like, it's just got to get done. And we don't acknowledge or compliment the other person for doing that. And I think it's so easy to fall into that trap in relationships. But when you make this parallel into like a workplace or like a company, I feel like you start to kind of see how crazy this is. It's like imagine working for a company where the company culture is such that you get zero acknowledgement or compliment from coworkers or your manager for doing your responsibilities. And it's like the only time you ever get the possibility of a compliment is at your year end review if you have like far exceeded expectations and done something that's like so above and beyond your job responsibilities. Like if your manager goes, all right, so welcome to like our kickass company. So like when like it's your co-workers job to do stuff for you and do not thank them, do not acknowledge them doing anything, that's their job. How dare you say thank you to them? How dare you like, you know, how dare you appreciate them? That's their job. We save appreciation only for like the end of the year. Like you would not be very excited about working there, right? Who's going to be like, oh, I love this. I hate your creepy voice. Who's just like, oh my god, this lights me up, this level of high expectations. Maybe there's a couple people that would be like, oh yeah, no, don't compliment me unless I really deserve it. But like, no, most people will be like, that's crazy. I'm not allowed to express any kind of appreciation for my co-workers like supporting me doing my job. Like yeah, why would you do it? But like so many of us are doing that in our relationships. And I, you know, we say all the time there's nothing lonelier than choosing to spend your life with somebody but winding up feeling invisible to them. And I think that's what compliments help. Counteract. Counteract, that's the word. That's what compliments counteract. It's like this feeling of like, I see you. And especially when you're overwhelmed and overloaded, it's like, I see how hard you're working. I see what you're doing. I see the ways you're taking care of our family and our kids and me. Like I see you. And I just think that that's the most essential human need and desire. So don't underestimate the compliments. And I mean, it's fine to even set yourself up for compliments sometimes. The other day, yesterday, you weren't... I did. Well, no, I mean, like Vanessa, I'd been sick for a while and then Vanessa was sick for a while. And like, you know, I would have not noticed this because like I had been doing a bunch, you know, I'd been doing a bunch of cleaning like while you were sick and on the couch and stuff. But I went surfing yesterday morning and Vanessa wasn't sure how well she was going to be feeling in the morning. And I got back and she had like, you know, she had ended up walking the dogs. I was going to do that later. Earlier, I committed to... I would do it so that she wouldn't have to, but then she was feeling better. So she did it. And I thanked her for that. And then she was like, also just so you know, I cleaned up the kitchen as well. So she set herself up. And so I heard that. I went, oh my God, you did. Like, thank you so much. And you know, it's because it's like, we don't always notice every little thing, especially around the house. You know, because like, you know, for us, it's like all clean up around the kitchen. Vanessa will clean up around the kitchen. We don't really have a set like it's someone person's responsibility to do that one. And so yeah, it's totally fine. If you worked hard on something, make sure your partner knows. You don't have to be like, you'd better thank me for it. But like, you know, point it out because sometimes it's easy for us to not notice those things. Okay, next up, another parent said, making a date night happen weekly, even if the date night is a walk to get the mail without the kids, it doesn't have to be big. It just has to be something special. Yeah, I think date nights are so important. Again, it's just all about that intentionality. It's like, I want us to have quality time together. And this is a big reason why we put together the spark, which is our monthly membership for couples. It is the biggest no brainer of anything we've ever offered. It is $9 per month. Like what else can you get for $9 a month these days? But every month we send you one emotional intimacy, like date night idea, and one physical intimacy date night idea. Plus a whole bunch of conversation starters. Yeah, conversation starters, we have a sex position of the month, we've got some other fun stuff in there. But I think like those two date nights are really valuable. We design a lot of them to be like so many of them can be of the emotional intimacy date nights can be done at home. Like, you know, it's not a big fancy elaborate like go on a week long getaway, you know, anything like that. They're like simple things. But we take that the mental load off of your plate of having to figure out like, Oh my God, I don't know what to do for date night. We deliver it straight to your inbox. So you can go straight to VMtherapy.com slash spark if you want to check that out. And we will also put the link for you in the show notes. Okay, another parent said all your conversations about mental load have been extremely helpful chore play for the win. If you're going to do chores, you might as well make it sexy. You might as well. Yeah, we have done a couple of different podcast episodes about mental load. I feel like we should redo one because we have one that's like it's episode four. It was one of the very first ones I'm sure the the audio quality has been improved since then. But yeah, research shows that couples who share chores in a way that feels equitable and fair to their unique relationship, those couples have way more sex. So it's not couples that have way more sex are happier with their relationship. So I would definitely recommend checking out those mental load episodes. Okay, I'm put I have a couple of tips here that I've categorized under the little things. Yeah, because I said that earlier, right? Intimacy, I got I've got to come up with my little my own little catchphrase. Intimacy is in the little details. Intimacy is in the little things life is life is lived in the little things. I don't know, we'll work on it. No, one person. Oh, this is what you spoiled earlier. I love your nightly make out ritual. So we also have a podcast episode about this. We do. And some of our most viral social content ever has been about this. So Zander and I make out every night before bed for at least 10 seconds. The rule is the tongues have to touch. Yeah, except when one of us was sick. Yeah, we have not been doing that lately. But we started doing that because we realized we were really only making out like during sex itself or like immediately in the lead up to sex. And I was like, I miss making out like, why do we never do this anymore? So it's just this little tiny thing again, some nights if we're exhausted and tired, it takes 10 seconds like tummy, you don't have 10 seconds in your day for your partner. But it's just that little thing that like keeps the spark alive between the two of us. And this next tip goes hand in hand with that one engage in more non sexual touch. We learned from you guys that it keeps the intimacy alive and keeps the bristle reaction away. So yeah, same thing. Like the bristle reaction is our name for when like your partner tries to touch you and you feel your whole body tense up. And it's typically the result of like you guys only touching each other when you want sex. So you start to get really on guard with also a podcast episode about this. You start to get really on guard because it feels like touch has a motive like your partner's just trying to get something from you rather than trying to genuinely connect with you. Okay, some next tips under timing, which obviously is a huge challenge when you're a parent. One parent said, we established a parent bedtime. Once our kids were old enough, we started to train them that after 9pm, they need to text or knock on the door. I love this one because this is some of the most pushback we get is, well, we just cannot ever have sex because we have kids in the house or because we have teens in the house or whatever, you know, they're up at all hours. Yeah, we weirdly, I feel like get even more pushback from parents of teenagers about sex where it's just like, I think we just can never have sex unless we are on a solo vacation or once our kids get out of the house, like go to college. And it's like, that's just not a workable solution. Unless both of you are like, yeah, great, I don't really like sex and I don't want to have it for five or six more years or how long it's going to be. Right? Like it doesn't make any sense. But I so do people, we just cannot, they're always up, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, I get that. I get that, that gut reaction of it just can't work. But here's a great example of finding a way to make something work. You know, I'm not saying, I don't think these parents are necessarily saying, oh, yeah, no, we are just like fucking every, every single night once o'clock, it's 9 p.m. But it's creating a system that gives you some freedom to make some choices around what you're doing rather than like, oh, yeah, well, my kids just bust in all the time. Or, oh, will they assume that if the door is locked, then they're assuming that we're having sex immediately, even if that's not what's happening so we can never lock the door. You know, I like that. It makes sense. I mean, yeah. Another parent said early bedtime for the kids so that we have a long time. Yeah, I think a lot of parents kind of underestimate, especially when the kids are younger, is like, yeah, this you can kind of set the schedule that you want to, rather than like, oh, well, oh, you know, most most kids are going to bed at 9 now. So we have to do 9 o'clock. Like, yeah, I've heard from a lot of parents and I've definitely, you know, I've had some like parent, sort of co-workers in the past who have been parents who were like, oh, yeah, no, we put our kids to bed at 7 and it seems crazy in the summer when it's 5 o'clock when it's when it's still light, but like it's a game changer for us. And like, you know, like kids are just their creatures of habit and pattern. And once you get it might be hard to get into that habit or onto that pattern. But once you do, it's just that is what it is. Okay, another parent said, your transition ritual idea, giving each other some alone time to decompress helped us feel more relaxed around each other and more open to sex. So this whole idea is that like most people are trying to make the transition from being in like mom mode or dad mode, like go mode all day long. And you think you're supposed to transition straight into a sexy time partner mode, you are never going to do that. That is too rough of a 180. That's too hard of a transition to make. So we think there needs to be like a transition in between. That's the power of the transition ritual is something that you do in between where you come home to yourself first, before you are able to connect with your partner. And I do think that this tends to be more important for moms than it does for dads. I think it's like as women, we just really need that moment to come back to ourselves. And we're all about making this practical, like I'm not saying take an hour long bubble bath, you know, that's not going to be realistic on most nights. But even if it's like your parent or your partner handles bedtime with the kids or your partner takes the kids outside. So you have like 60 seconds to sit in your closet, right? Like whatever it is that feels realistic in your life, but just having a little tiny bit of time to yourself first can be really valuable. I think that this one, this is a really interesting area. I hate, we don't talk about this a lot, because it's like there are plenty of people out there that are like, oh, all technology are bad. It used to always, you know, it was so much better back in the past, but I do think that this is one area where this was far less of a problem before smartphones and before remote work. And so for the most part, you had to have a transition, whether you were riding public transit or driving in your car, you maybe you're just listening to music or, you know, something like that. Like that is a transition in and of itself. Like you have this kind of built-in thing. And then, you know, now that we are in this, you know, always on technology smartphone era, many people don't have that as much anymore. You might be riding the train back home and still working on your phone or dealing with messages or emails or, or whatever. Or, you know, you go home, you might have a little transitional issue, but you're getting home at 5 p.m. and pulling your computer out and doing more work. So you're kind of like, is so much for that transition that you just have because now you're back into work mode. And so, yeah, I think that this is one where we need to take some notes from how that used to be done of like, oh, yeah, so what would, what would my life actually look like 10 years ago? God, is it, or even is it more now, like more than 10 years ago before we had smartphones? God, like 15, 20 years ago, what would this have looked like? Like if I were doing generally what I'm doing, oh, yeah, I would be working out of the house. I would have been driving home. So think about how can I, you don't have to, you don't have to, to mirror that one for one, but it's like, oh, yeah, how can I bring some of that transition back that I used to have? And I think you'll be a lot happier. Okay, another parent said, fuck first has been a total game changer for us. So this is, this is probably the content that we've gotten the most pushback from parents about. If you haven't heard about this, fuck first, we did not come up with this, this is Dan Savage's idea. But the whole idea of it, that his original idea was that to have sex before you go out to date night or an event, because the reality is like, when we go out or, you know, we get full, if you drink your tipsy or drunk, like you're tired, you get home, and like that is the worst time to try to have sex. And we've sort of taken that and expanded it to say, like prioritize intimacy as early in the day as you can. Whether it's a day night or not. Because you're thinking about doing it later, might I interest you in doing it sooner? Because yeah, crawling into bed at the end of the night, that is the worst time to get yourself like super excited and jazzed about it. Like it's just too difficult. And ultimately, it's just increases the chances that you actually do it. So or, you know, it's either it's moving you into a higher likelihood of having sex or guaranteeing that you have sex. And like we said, couples who have more sex do end up feeling happier and better about their relationship, having more satisfaction. So yeah, like why do you want to gamble with that? If you're going, if you think you're going to do it later, do it now. So for like specifically for a fuck first, if you want to try this out as a lot of parents like, how am I supposed to do that with kids in the house? This is totally unrealistic. And then it's funny because there will be like anytime we post this on Instagram, then there will be parents hopping in be like, I have 17 kids and I do this. 17. Wow. It's always apparent with a lot of kids. These like fights going back and forth. Wonder why they have a lot of kids. They probably have a lot of sex. So some tips to make it work if you're a parent is obviously this is going to depend on your kids ages and you know what your resources are and all of that. But have the babysitter come over and take the kids to the park so you can have tell them like, you know, we don't want them to get upset while we leave or just tell your babysitter like we want some private time in our house to like get ready before the date. We've heard from like babysitters and nannies who are like, trust us, like it's this is fine. Just ask us to take the kids out of the house. It's okay. So many people are like, Oh my God, but then the babysitter is going to know then babysitter is right in and they're like, we don't like we're all we all have sex. Like I get it. It's not like or like take the kids, you know, if they can go to grandma's house or the neighbor's house or something like take the kids over there first and then come back and get ready for date night. Because it also makes sense to be like, we just want a little time to get ready. Yeah. Because it's hard to get ready for the date when your kids are like, Mommy, Daddy, both, you know, like, um, obviously you can use screen time as well. If that's, you know, something that you're open to your kids having. Or use that more general idea of, you know, making time for intimacy earlier in the day. Maybe you have sex the morning of your date night, if that works better, you know, with your unique family. Or if you want to try the general idea of like trying to prioritize intimacy earlier in the day. Like yes, as parents, you've got a ton of stuff on your plate in the evening. There's like, it's like your, that's your second shift of all the stuff that you have to do. But if you could even prioritize intimacy over watching TV, scrolling your phone on Instagram, even like folding that last load of laundry, like even if there's just one thing that you could prioritize intimacy over, you will benefit from. Move it up one slot in the to do list. One slot at a time. Okay. A couple quick tips about privacy. We keep a monitor outside the kids room. So we hear them coming before they get to our door. Yeah. Do they have like, uh, is this like, you know, like a little like the like laser thing along the floor? So like flips a switch and like some special stuff. And locks on the door. I don't understand why every parent doesn't have them. Then let's wrap this up with some like kind of more mindset tips. These fell more into the like pep talk slash tough love responses that we got. So one parent wrote maintenance sex sounds terrible, but it has to happen sometimes. And it keeps us out of dry spells. I really think that maintenance sex has a place in every relationship. I think like scheduled sex, it gets a bad rep. And then to be clear, I am not saying like, do not force yourself to have sex that you don't want to have. Like that is just going to create resentment, ruin your sex drive. But I think there is something to be said about, you know what, I'm not like wildly excited right now, but I know that this is important. And I know I feel so good afterwards. I know we feel really connected afterwards. Like, I'm going to go for it. Yeah. I mean, maybe don't call it. I might recommend calling it something else like Tuesday night sex versus maintenance sex. I come up with a name because maintenance sex has some negative connotations for a lot of people. So I think maybe rename it also number two. I'm only on board with this if this is something that is communicated between both partners, where maintenance sex becomes a problem is when one partner in only inside their own head goes, okay, y'all give my partner some maintenance sex. They don't say that to the partner. And so then the partner's experience is they're just getting a sub par experience, a less engaged experience, a partner that doesn't seem to really care that they're doing there. They're letting them do it to them, but they're not really in it. That's when things become a problem. I think a lot of people do that. They go, okay, I'll just let them do it to me. And in their head, they're like, yeah, it's maintenance sex is good for us. I think that it is totally cool if you're like, hey, yeah, let's just kind of do a quickie. We don't have a lot of time, but I'm open to doing it like that. Come up with another name other than maintenance sex. Don't say, oh, I'm open to maintenance sex with you right now. But have a conversation about it and talk about what that means to you in terms of generally how long we spend or like, okay, it probably means we're just going to do this one position where we know that we can both have a orgasm relatively quick. We've called it Saturday night sex versus Tuesday night sex. Or you can come up with your own funny inside joke for it too. We've talked about, I think we had steak dinner or five course tasting menu versus Taco Tuesday. I don't know why it's always Tuesday, but that feels like the perfect- We're on Mickey D's. Yeah, we're just like, yeah, it's just straight into the point and we're getting to it. Okay, another parent said, we really use your reframe of am I open to sex right now versus always just feeling like we need to be 100% ready to go. I think this actually really goes along with the maintenance. I would say that of all the times that Xander initiates sex, I am probably turned on and excited maybe 15 to 20% of the time. And that's not because I have a low sex drive or because we have mismatch sex drives. It's just because we are two different people and it would be really weird if magically every single time Xander was in the mood. Oh my god, I was wildly in the mood too or vice versa. We're just two different people and we are interested and excited about it at different times. So I don't put the bar as, oh, Xander's initiating sex, am I, did I magically happen to be wildly horny in this exact moment? That's the only way I can say yes. Instead, we think about it in terms of openness. Not am I already horny, but am I open to being intimate? And am I open to the possibility of getting turned on? It brings the bar down. It's so much more realistic and it means that we wind up having way more sex. Plus, if you were wildly horny when your partner initiated, you would probably already have been initiating like 30 seconds before that, right? Oh my god, I was about to initiate with you. How crazy. Okay, next tip was your sex life is going to change. Stop thinking it should be the same or be as easy as it was before. Once you accept that, you can start finding different things to love about sex and intimacy. That's a good one. Next, you have to be intentional about your relationship. It's not just going to happen. If you don't put in the effort to improve your relationship or your sex life, then you aren't ever going to see improvements. Stop taking sex so seriously. Bring some fun energy back into it and it will feel a lot more doable. I like that's one of our guiding principles. Like, I think the more fun that we have with sex, the more fun we have with sex. And then speaking of guiding principles, keeping your relationship alive is the best example for your kids to see. Mike drop. Absolutely. That is one that I think so many parents struggle to see until they start prioritizing. And then they're like, oh yeah, it's all about bottling the relationship that I want my kids to be able to have. I think so many of us have seen the opposite of that of our parents model the relationship that we didn't want to have. Right? And that's a lot of work for us. You get older and you start realizing, oh yeah, maybe this wasn't as good as I thought it was. Oh, maybe this is kind of messed up. Oh yeah, I really don't want that. But what do I want? Oh, now I have to figure out what I actually do want. And so many of us go through Sony trials and tribulations in relationships because we know what we don't want, but we don't know what we do want. So hell a lot easier if you can actually model something that is really aspirational to your kids. They don't have to go through all that work of figuring out exactly what it is they want. Like they've seen it, they've lived it. And I think ultimately that's what we all want. We want our kids to grow up happy and healthy and be able to get into a happy and healthy relationship. So why aren't we doing the same? All right. And let's wrap this up with a longer DM that we got from a parent. I just thought this was so good and like really encapsulates so much of what we talk about and the perspective that we try to take in our work. Okay, this person writes, I'm a classic overworked, overloaded, overwhelmed parent. There are days when I don't even feel like a human, a sexual being, absolutely not. So when I hear other parents say to you guys, you just don't understand, I actually do have empathy for that. It is true. But I also want to give some of the parents out there some tough love. A lot of us parents are using the challenges of parenting as an excuse to avoid the things we need to be paying attention to, like our marriages. A lot of parents get and stay stuck in the loop of we're too tired, the kids are too needy, life is too busy. They turn into the proverbial roommates. But there's also another subset of parents, the group I choose to be in. We're just as tired, our kids are just as chaotic, our calendars are just as packed. But we decided that our relationship isn't something we'll get back to someday. It's something we prioritize, protect and pour into it now, not because it's easy, but because it's important. My husband and I take your advice and we tweak it to fit our circumstances. Yes, we have sometimes felt resistance and we have had seasons where this was a lot harder than others. But thanks to you guys, we now understand that prioritizing our sex life is essential. It's what reminds us that you're not just business partners running a household. It's what keeps us connected, playful, affectionate and actually liking each other. You've mentioned before that when you're connected sexually, you feel like a team and you tackle the challenges of life so much better. We've absolutely found that to be true in our relationship. So to the people who get cranky over your advice and leave comments like, yeah, but my situation is different. Okay, sure, everyone's is. But that doesn't mean you're off the hook. It just means you have to get a little more creative, a little more intentional and a little more honest with yourself. At some point, you have to decide, are you going to keep proving why it can't work or start figuring out how it can? Because one path keeps you stuck exactly where you are, and the other leads to a relationship that actually feels alive again. And you both deserve that. Wow. I know I said mic drop earlier, but that is the mic drop right there. I rescinded my previous mic drop moment. We can have multiple mic drops. All right. Well, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.