#137 Sales Expert: #1 Secret to Master Negotiating | Shelby Sapp

There's no one like you, and there never will be. From the producer of Bohemian Rhapsody, There are many legends, but there is only one. Michael in IMAX and Cinema's Wednesday, April 22. When you teach a woman sales, she'll never go broke, because there's only something to sell. People do love to be sold. I take that back. People hate to be sold, but they love to buy. How do you become a dangerous person at sales? Mmm, you shut up. You literally shut up. Shelby Sap has built and broken down more killer salespeople than just about anybody. Founders, entrepreneurs, companies printing millions, all riding on one skill, persuasion. Learn to sell, and you'll learn to win. Dude, I used to knock on doors and get the cops called on me. I used to get the door slammed in my face. You really can't do much to shake me because of the thick skin that I built through sales. Most annoying line I think ever told by a salesperson, never let them off the phone. I hate that. People need some mother-freaking urgency nowadays. I love Gary Vee, but I hate when he says, you have time, you're so young. You don't have time. If you had to give listeners today in 60 seconds, one thing that maybe could make them a million bucks, one thing that could make them 100 bucks, four things, one. What does matter if you want to get ahead? Yeah, so I would say emotional leadership is a big thing that will never become replaced. That's why I say anything to do with cold calling or setting is going to be replaced in the next two to three years, if not faster, because you're just sifting through leads. But anything where you have to do a high ticket deal, entrepreneurship, you're leading someone through a purchase decision of over $3,000, they need to talk to a human. And so any type of skill that protects that buying atmosphere is going to be protected no matter what comes into play. You had a video that I loved where I think you were convincing your now a fiance that he should order some food and was hungry. Oh, yeah. Do you remember this? Yes. Like how can you use sales to convince anybody of anything? And maybe you can use that example. Yeah, so I mean you can phrase questions to a leading no. So everybody thinks that questions you should ask should lead to a yes. But the human brain loves to say the word no, because it feels safe. So you can rephrase a question by asking, like, would you be completely opposed to doing this? Well, no, I wouldn't be completely opposed to it, but the no means a yes. So it's little types of things like that and using questions instead of statements, mirroring the end of somebody's last sentence, like the last three words, in order for them to go a little bit deeper and talk a little bit more. But you can use sales for anything. It's just knowing what pain points and what will drive somebody to actually make a decision using those pain points as leverage in order to get what you want. So give me an example. So say I am your husband and you're like, I do want to get a delicious something from downstairs. I want to order in from room service. But your husband's like, nah, too expensive. What would you do? Baby, would you be completely opposed to ordering some room service for me? I would love it so much and you're so sweet whenever you order room service, it makes me so happy. So a couple of things. Number one, would you be completely opposed? No. Number two, you kind of give people an identity. So it's called identity selling, where it's like, I love when you do these sweet things for me. And it sounded so awkward saying it to you. I liked it. I was here when you were like, yes, we should. But you give people an identity to live up to. So in a sales conversation, it looks like telling someone, listen, you seem so clear, so motivated, so driven to get what you want. Like so many times I hop on calls with people that are kind of in the gray area. They're what we call like fence sitters. Like they're not really in or out. You are so freaking ready. Like I love that about you. And I say that early on into the sales conversation. That way they can live up to the identity and the label that I put on them later on to the deal in order to act with urgency. That's so good. Even the way your intonation changes. I mean, I think about it a lot in leadership, which is just another way to sell. You mentioned that before. Exactly. But even how your voice kind of went down and you were like, oh, you know, and you change your intonation. What have you learned about not just what you say, but the way your voice changes in sales? Okay. So this is huge. When I first started sales, I was wondering why nobody would take me seriously. And I felt like I was just becoming people's friends and nobody would buy from me. And then my manager was like, hey, record some of your calls and we'll dissect it. And it came to be. And I learned through the voice recordings, which is a great way to practice sales, that I was talking with commas instead of periods. So like, hey, nice to meet you. My name's Shelby. So blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All of my words were blending together. And the way that you talk, like even the way that I'm doing this right now is more with a downward inflection rather than an uptone. So little kind of tips and tricks really can convey a different message when you're trying to talk to someone, even as little as the tonality, talking with periods instead of commas. It's so funny because you mentioned content a lot, which I obviously love content. You do the same thing in sales. It's called hooking people. So people's attention spans are very short. So you can say something that kind of grabs their attention. And then the three reasons why, which does that remind you of content? It's like the hook. And then the three reasons why. Absolutely. The same thing in communication. So it's just a combination of grabbing somebody's attention, providing them with a ton of value, telling them where to go when they do want to have something, whether you're in content or whether you're in a sales conversation. So good. So like, if I wanted my husband to take me out to dinner, I'd be like, how would I do that? Would I say, hey, I'd love you to take me out to dinner tonight. That'd be amazing because you know why? Like every time we do, don't we have incredible conversations and also like, it reminds me of our very first date. And like at the end of the day, maybe I'll give you a foot massage because you'll be tired after this. Ooh, I like that. Okay. So you did a couple of things. You brought it in, you brought it out from a dinner to the memories. And then you also added in a little bit of an upsell with the foot massage. Yes, you are getting it. Yes. And then also option closing people is something that you can do in any sort of conversation. Instead of asking someone, hey, where should we go to dinner? Hey, should we go here or here? Both options you're good with, but you're giving somebody the illusion of control. Yeah. Does your husband feel like you sell him? All the time. Well, actually, I take that back. Actually, I take that back because we filmed the video and somebody asked you, is like, does she'll be so you all the time? He goes, no, she could never sell me. And I'm like, I look at the camera and I'm like, that's how you know that you're so good is when somebody doesn't even know that they're getting sold. He doesn't know, but that's like proof that you are such a good salesperson because I do it every day. So what do you think for the person who's listening right now? Who's like, maybe they haven't. I mean, I've done probably 10,000 cold calls back in my day in finance. And a lot of the best actual leaders I've ever had have done like Rylan, this new guy we hired. He just, you can see it's like a glint you get in your eye when you've ever done. It's this like immediate feedback loop, right? How often do we get a chance for somebody like to tell us yes immediately? It's really fun. But let's say that somebody's listening. They're like, that sounds awful. I am so horrified. Sales. I would love to get good at sales, but this is terrible. Okay. What would you tell them? I would tell them that you either sell or you get sold every single day, 10 different times a day. The kind of clothes that you're wearing, you got sold. The phone that you have, you got sold. Every single little detail about your life you get sold or you either learn how to sell. So it's a game that's being played no matter what, whether you're in it or you're out of it. So my personal take on it is I would rather know the game that's being played around me at all times from a sales person's perspective, but also from a consumer's perspective. And then also it's like if you choose to play that game, you can add in an amazing additional income in order to stack your income now in addition to what you're already doing, or you can full-time supplement it. So. Yeah, I love it. Plus if you want to be a business owner, you got to sell. Oh, 100%. It's everything. And it's something that nobody teaches you. I remember in my master's program, I got my master's by 22. So I was 21-ish in that master's program. And I would wear workout sets. I was just like little, college girl, whatever. That was the era. But everyone in my master's program was like 35, 45, 55. They would work at these companies and just their companies would pay for them to get their masters. And it came to the part where they would teach us sales. And I already had like two or three years of door-to-door sales under my belt at this point. And every single thing that they were teaching us, I'm like, no, like that won't work. And so the teacher actually had me teach some of the seminars in the master's program. And I think that was kind of the point where I realized like, even if they don't, like, we were grateful that they even chose to teach us sales for a couple of weeks because most of the times they don't. But even then, if somebody in college or whatever is teaching you sales, why aren't they doing it? You know? And so it was just kind of outdated techniques. And that's kind of... What is the worst? Like, are there some techniques you see today in sales that you're like, please, dear God, never do this? Yep. Okay. So I say this with all kindness. Jeremy Minor is a great guy. Love Jeremy Minor. He's awesome. He's an OG. He was actually the reason I started posting because I was really good at sales. I was making all this money and I wanted to learn sales. So I'm looking up like sales tips online on TikTok, Instagram, and it was really only him. And I saw a video of him teaching door-to-door people how you should do door-to-door sales. You'd wear a construction vest and he would go up to someone's home and he's like, guys, this is the secret. You knock on their door and you look confused. You're like, excuse me, are you the homeowner? And I'm like, that would get the door slammed in your face so quick. And so that was kind of the inflection point where I was like, maybe that works for more B2B sales, like the confusion type stuff where you kind of act a little confused and off-putting. But for me, that wasn't it at all. And so I was like, my approach was completely different. And so I tried to look for women that were teaching sales and there was nothing. So I was like, I'm just going to whip out my phone and talk about what I like to do. And that was kind of the whole start of how I started training people, was just telling them what I do with my approach as a woman, because it is a little different. Oh, absolutely. And you got to use it. You're like, I think if you are a woman and you know sales, you're pretty dangerous. Oh, for sure. It's when you teach a woman sales, she'll never go broke, because there's always something to sell, whether that's your own stuff. There's always a company that will hire you for sales if you're good, if you have the numbers to back it. And you're always buying things throughout the day. So you might as well save a couple of bucks, no matter what you're buying in the whole day to day life. Yeah, my top sellers are women here. Exactly. Yeah. But it's like, it can go one of two ways, because if you're a woman and you're not trained and you don't know what you're doing, you'll get walked all over and you'll end up working for free. But if you're a woman that knows what she's doing, you know your worth, you know how to control a conversation, dangerous. Well, let's talk about that. How do you become a dangerous person at sales? You shut up. You literally shut up. Too many salespeople lose a deal because they'll get a yes or a micro yes and they'll just keep talking over the other person. Like, okay, sounds good. Well, we also have this and we also have this and we also have a warranty. And you forget that every single little detail that you give someone unlocks the opportunity for them to disagree with the detail that you said. So keeping it simple and direct is the most valuable thing you can do in a sales conversation. Yet nobody does it. You always run into the salespeople that just talk the entire time. And so I say there's a rule in sales. It's 80 20. Your client should be talking 80% of the time. You should be talking 20. So then the question is, how do you get someone to talk for 80% of the time? Well, the 20% that you're talking is mostly questions. Asking them while they're giving their answers. What are the best questions to ask in sales that you found? Three buckets of questions. Proving questions, provoking questions and future state questions. What do I mean by that? So gap selling is a big thing in luxury sales. Obviously not door to door, you're not really selling a gap. But in luxury sales, you're selling the gap between where somebody is versus where they want to be. So where they are, you have to build their current state. And you have to get clear with them on where they're at, what their numbers are like, what those numbers mean for them, what they're struggling with on the day to day, like what that means for them. That's their current state. Then you transition to asking future state questions. Okay. Future state questions are like in a perfect world. This partnership works out. Take me through that. Like what is the number where you open up your laptop and you're like, that's success. Okay. Let's say $300,000 a month revenue. You're selling something B2B. Then you would ask like, okay, well, why 300? Why not 350? Why not 250? Like what does 300 mean to you? 300 means I could pay my employees. I could take home 50K a month. I would be able to pay this. That's what this person cares about. They don't care about the number. They care about what the number can do for them. So just kind of wrap up its probing questions, which are kind of just poking around the bear. Where are you at? What are your numbers like? You're just kind of like poking around, getting some context, provoking questions, dive a layer deeper. Where you kind of double click on someone's answer. That way they can explain like why this is a struggle and the emotional pain point behind it. And then the third would be the future state questions. So good. This is kind of controversial, but do you think that you make more money when you dress better and you're hotter? Ooh, okay. Yes, to an extent. So we've actually found when you are a woman and you're selling to another woman, you should underdress a little bit. When you're selling to a man, you should overdress a little bit. So it is a little bit different. And I'm not saying you have to like put your makeup on, take it off, put your makeup on, take it off on your sales calls. But it's like, it is knowing that the core rule is like never outshine the master. So if you're talking to somebody and you're trying to say how amazing you are, you're beautiful. It's like, that's very intimidating for someone. And if being intimidating is not going to allow them to open up and to feel safe with you, then it's going to hurt you. So it is a fine line to toe where it's like, look confident because confidence comes out in your conviction, which comes out in the energy that you bring into a conversation and your energy is your currency. So look confident, but you don't have to kick yourself up every single time you take a sales call. Seriously, I have so many girls that they look perfect. And they're like, why aren't people opening up to me? And I'm like, you are too perfect. People love to talk to someone that one little trick I teach my sales girls to is to say something a little self deprecating in the beginning, just to show that you're human. You know, or to like wipe your camera a little bit or be like, sorry, I'm having a bad hair day, something like that. Because it just shows that you're human and you're not super polished and people like when you're a little imperfect. Yeah, it's so true. I think, you know, these days, a lot of us want something that's authentic. I feel like that's why you've crushed it on social too. You are so obviously who you are, like having met you and then we've gone back and forth and then watched your content is the same thing. You know, there's not some other face and that's not that normal. Actually, a lot of people are kind of two totally different things. Yeah, that's true. I feel like that's why content doesn't work for a lot of people though is in order for it to really, really work, you have to be the thing. And like I just view my, I view my whole life through a lens of sales. Like even if I'm talking to a realtor and they say a word track that I really like, I'll write it down and I'll report it back to my community. So it's like even these little things like I genuinely do just live my whole life through the sales lens. And I don't think content would be fun for me if I'm just like putting on a face every single time. It's not long term, you know? No, no, no. And you got to love the game. It's really hard to beat somebody else who's having fun. And so if you're having fun. You can tell. Oh yeah. Dude, in this world right now, I hate it. I feel like there's no good content creators and all the people that I used to like watching their content, they suck now. And the reason is chat GPT. They're all sitting. Sounds so similar. Bro, it's so bad. They're all sitting in a chair with a microphone, looking at a screen, reading the exact same script. And you can tell. Yeah. You can see it in their eyes. You can see it in the way that their face just doesn't light up about what they're saying. And I just feel like everything's getting so vanilla. Yeah. But the caveat is there's such a big opportunity for people that are genuine, that are authentic, that have a unique perspective to just kill it in things like sales and business. You're going to love this. A study at Harvard Business found that the top performing salespeople spend 33% more time on customer retention than acquisition. So the best closers aren't even chasing new leads. They're compounding and getting more money from existing relationships. My little secret hack here for you guys, that is the same principle that drives newsletter growth. And that's why newsletter creators have been rapidly switching to Beehive. Beehive is where the serious creators go because it's built around compounding, not just publishing. Like we just actually started a newsletter where we grew 1200 subscribers in a few weeks with Beehive. The analytics don't just show open rates. They show you engagement tiers, revenue attribution by issue, exactly what content is converting readers into paying subscribers. So you stop guessing what your audience wants and start actually knowing. The monetization, so how you make money, is built in from day one. Beehive's ad network brings sponsors to you. So they handle the sales, the reporting, the invoicing. You can do paid subscriptions. You can do boosts. You can do referral programs. It's all native and it's all running while you write. It's incredible actually. Newsletters on Beehive grow 2.75x faster than the industry average. So if you're running a newsletter on another platform right now, you're not just leaving features behind. You are leaving a bunch of money behind. Switch to Beehive. Use code CODE30 for 30% off your first three months at beehive.com. That's slash CODE and that's code CODE30 at B-E-E-H-I-I-V dot com slash CODE. I mean, actually we should talk about this. Because I remember I was giving you shit on the internet because you bought a giant pink $100,000 G-Waggot. $500,000. Oh Jesus Christ. In cash. It hurts my heart with every single moment. And then you also have like a Rolls-That's Pink and a Porch-That's Pink. My favorite part of all this is you're just smiling and going, yep. And you know, I had to give you shit because I love buying businesses and I hate liabilities. Now there are many reasons like taxes and if one person got the money out of those things in the entire existence of them being made, it's probably you because of the number of videos you do on those. Probably had to fucking write off as your office. Well, yeah, I mean, I would argue that it kind of is a business at this point. You know, it's like the investment of 500K. I mean, the next three masterclasses I had after that were record breaking. Yeah. You get a direct ROI, but it's also like, I think when you do the smart things first, like I'm never someone that's like, oh, buy a car the first time you make over 50 grand a month. But I think once you buy a couple of investment properties, once you put stuff away into stocks, you pay off your credit cards, like you're good to go financially. I love investing in myself. It's just like, why make money if you can't enjoy it? I have some fun. Yeah. I mean, I have so many investment properties where it's like, it's cool, but I never see them. I like, they don't really make me a ton of money. Yeah. So it's like, if you have extra money, like why not? I love it. I don't want anybody here to listen to that advice, but I do. I love this for you. It's not the best advice, but it's what works for you. Yeah. Well, that's like, I do think, listen, we're all just Pavlov's dogs with carrots and sticks. And if you are really into cars and you love them pink, you're going to go make that extra sales call if you know that that's at the end of the tunnel for you. And I think that's damn important. So if that's what gets you off, that's amazing. And especially if you're not doing it just because you want to show somebody else that you're fancy, you know? But that did make me giggle a lot. But I kind of want to go to one other thing I think about from that. Everybody who's online gets a lot of hate. Me too. I think sometimes especially ladies who talk about money. For sure. For sure. What do you do to not have that bother you? Like how do you not have haters bother you and not have when people say no to you bother you? If you if someone was like, Cody, I hate your purple hair. You'd be like, what? Because you don't have purple hair. So when people give you so much shit about something that's so obviously not true, it's easy to be like, wait, what? Like even that one guy, he was like, we got a now I'm bleeping out his name. I'm giving him no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do not like this little guy. Yeah, thumb guy. He was like, oh, like you look like you do only fans or something. It's just like so far from the truth that you just have to laugh at it. You mean I'm good looking? Like all good looking women do only fans mark a dick. What a weird correlation to draw. Like what does that say about you? Anyways. Let's see that. Anyways. Let's see that. I have access for a bit more. Yes, but it's that it's when you believe so much in yourself and so much in your truth, nothing really affects you that much. And then also, dude, I used to knock on doors and get the cops called on me. I used to get the door slammed in my face, water thrown on me. So it's like, you really can't do much to shake me because of the thick skin that I've built through sales. So I just think it's funny. Like some people feel the need to make a whole explanation video. And that was actually the first video I've ever done like a reaction to just because I thought it was so funny. But I never talk about anything because it's just not necessary. Not at all. I never do either. I actually filmed one because I was so pissed on your behalf. And then I was like, you can tell I'm mad at it. Yeah. We don't need to give this guy more airtime. So I'll probably do one about one of the haters that I remember. Like I've had all sorts over the years. Oh, yeah. But but I do think there's something really powerful about the fact like as long as you stand in who you are, right? The only time haters really get to me are when there's like a tiny sliver of truth. And then that's a moment of self reflection. 100%. Which is why did that get to me? And then you think back and you're like, okay, so I mean, it's just, I always think too. I'm like, the fact that someone would want to leave a digital footprint of so much hate is crazy to me. I would never be caught commenting under someone's stuff or making a video about someone. Just because I think when you have so much value to offer the world, you lead with that. And when you have no value to offer the world, you lead with other people and kind of piggyback off of them. Oh yeah. I mean, do the adult thing. Scroll. You don't like my shit. Scroll. Keep moving the fingers. Wipe it super easy. Literally. Could you imagine being the type of person to comment negatively and seriously comment negatively on somebody else's thing you don't like? What are you doing? I would never be caught dead. Okay. I do want to talk a little bit about where to start. So let's say that there's somebody right now and she's like, I am not good at sales. And I don't know how to sell anybody anything. What do you do to start becoming good at sales? Does she just want to become good at sales for life or like make an income? I don't know. Maybe both. Okay. So let's say she's working like a normal job, like a nine to five office job. So contrary to what everybody thinks, you don't have to quit your job in order to do sales, especially something like remote sales. You can choose your own hour. So you can do it on the evenings or weekends or whatever. So I would get into an industry that gives you warm leads that you can do remote and you can create your own availability for. A ton of good sales industries. My expertise is high ticket industry. And then if you're like, okay, well, I just don't know how to sell though. You need to get the basics down. So there's so much free content online. Like you can seriously implement so many sales tips that you see, but you need to create your own framework as you would say it. So I always tell my girls, I'm like, if you feel awkward saying something, someone's going to feel awkward hearing it. So it's just repetition, practicing over and over again. You can role play with AI. You can video yourself doing it, do voice memos, hear yourself back. And I want you to also notice the way that you like to be sold and sell like that. So if you like when someone does push you a little bit and is a little bit more like aggressive with you, okay, take that approach. If you hate that and if you hate when people are pushy to you, but you love when someone's just open and honest and very just, this is what it is. If you want to take it, then take that approach. So kind of notice the way that you buy things and just replicate that. Did you change your sales personality from when you started doing door-to-door at 18 to now? Oh, for sure. So door-to-door is completely different than remote sales because in remote, it's all warm leads and you're selling a higher ticket. So you're dealing with more luxury clients. In door-to-door, it's very just quick, pushy, talking over people, bulldozing them more quantity over quality. And it's low ticket. So it's very just like the sale can be done in like five, 10 minutes. What were you doing? Pest control? Oh yeah, dude. I own one of those companies back in the day. So you know, did you ever knock a door? Oh yeah, I've knocked so many. We own roofing companies and window cleaning companies. I love a door knock. Oh my gosh, we should door knock one day. Oh, that would be a good video. That would be so funny. That's the YouTube video. I'm so down. Okay, I want to tell you my favorite hack for door knocking. Then you can tell me yours. I'm out of practice. You're in more practice. You could tell me if yours is better. One of my favorite tactics, this is for our painting companies. Okay. It's like three people interested in this online, but you and I are like, let me tell you about door knocking. They're like the painting company, my time to shine. So one, obviously we would get one client and then I'd like to do usually eight to 10 houses around it. How many I could in like that one situation. So I always like to go up to the front, a couple of different things like, you know, knock on the door, always make sure my hands are available. I'm a chick, they worry about that less, but all the dudes, we always train them. You got to make sure your hands are shown. Second, as they come out, I always loved the lean back, which is like, look like I'm going to leave right away as opposed to like coming in towards you. So a little lean back and then a, Hey, I just wanted to tell you that we're in your neighborhood. And if you have any issues with like my guys who are here doing this painting, I want you to have, you know, my information. If we get in your way or anything like that, I just want you to know, is that okay? And then they'll say like, Oh yeah, thanks. That's great. And then I would say, and then I kind of look like I was leaning and I'd be like, Oh, it's so amazing. Haven't I say, and then I'd kind of like look at something and be like, Oh, also, like I should say, obviously, if we're in your neighborhood. You sell your goods at first. Yeah, exactly. And usually I would always just sell like a little, Hey, do you want me to give a look around your house? For sure. And I can see what's missing. For sure. So I like a couple of things that you did. One thing was you said you're not straight on. Yeah. That's the worst thing you can do because it's very competitive. It's like you're going to stand right in front of this person's face. No, you should always be at kind of like a 45 degree angle. Another thing is too, whenever you get longer into the sale and you're going over prices, you're always taught to kind of lean on the wall or like even in zoom calls, like you lean back whenever you want to minimize something. And then also the only thing I would tweak is I would lead with pain points. So like when I was doing door to door, it's like the only reason we're in the area and I'm even coming around because normally I don't do this, whatever. The ants are just insane. The humidity is crazy. You guys back up to the lake. Like you have to use some like context clues of like the actual area to show like, oh, this girl actually knows what she's doing. She's not just like some random door to door sales person. And it's like you, you nicer homes, you back up to the water. Like everybody's getting the wasps and the ants as soon as it rains, like they all just float in. Do you guys already have someone set up for that? Or did you not do that yet this year? So it's kind of like leading with the pain points like ants, wasps, the lake behind. Do you have that set up yet or not yet? So that and then also one thing that you love that all door to door people do is. They use social proof as the area. So it's like they've got trucks in the area. We're only here because we're doing a few neighbors, da, da, da. My biggest tip for door to door sales is you have to remove somebody from the door frame because if you're talking to them within the door frame, you are a door to door sales rep. There's no way to get out of that. And so when someone gives you at least one, no, they start associating their physical surroundings and the way that the air feels on them, the way that they're standing, their physical. Surroundings with that no. So it's very hard to turn a no to a yes. You have to get them removed. So I would always just kind of stand back and be like, yeah, it's mainly just this stuff and like move them over to the garage, the sidewalk anywhere. And it kind of like restarts the whole sale. That way you can dig yourself out of the no and turn it into yes. That's so good. I love that. I love the pain points. I got to send that to my team. I'm going to send a little Shelby sap video. I also want to talk about something else I used to hate back in the day. I think a lot of people do. So I hated door to door sales at first and I kind of liked it. I still hate networking today. Oh my gosh. And I kind of want your take on this. Like, do you think that networking helps or is there something else better? Intentional networking. Yes. Like if you're there for a specific reason within a specific company and everybody has the same common goal and you really want to meet a certain amount of people. Yes. But networking cocktail hours where it's just like meet people in your city. I think it's terrible. And I have a very biased opinion on it because I got burned through random networking more than it helped me like way more because I kind of realized if you were just showing up to all these different networking events, which I used to do. Are you just networking or are you not working because why are you at three cocktail hours a week at 2pm on a Tuesday because the real players are stuck in an office. They're grinding way on their computer. They're too busy to go enter a room with people that don't have any value to give them. And so the caveat of this is like, if you're young and you're like, but I want to network. I want to become this big business person. Like I want help. A couple of things. You need to become someone that people actually want to network with. And you do that by locking yourself up in the room and getting skill sets and actually becoming someone that people are dying to be in a group chat with rather than just being like, oh, can you put me in a group chat with so and so like it's just icky. Like I don't think you meet the best quality people. Also, I mean, my backstory is like I lived in Miami for a while and I think everybody in Miami. It's kind of smoke and mirrors in there. And I kind of realized every thread that I every thread of connection that I followed. Oh, this person's so successful. They could help me with this. You kind of realize they're not all that's cracked up to be and it didn't really lead me anywhere, especially as a woman. I feel like if somebody does have value and it's like that weird dynamic, it's more of like dangling a carrot in front of your face of opportunity. And then once they figure out that you're not interested on that level, there's nothing there. So I feel like there's just so much better opportunity if you take that amount of effort and put it into yourself. That way people are dying to network with you and then you can have the choices of who you want to talk to. It's so, it's so good. Like if you want to meet interesting people become interesting. Exactly. That's literally the game. Exactly. Build interesting things, do interesting things and that's how you meet the other people. Right. You don't go to cocktail hours. Also, Lord help us all. But if you're doing that today, especially with everything that's going on with AI, like you can't be doing MBA cocktail hours and corporate cocktail hours. No, and it's so draining. Everybody talks the same. They're the same personality. I just, I can't do it. No, I'm an out. I literally can't. Especially if they have the, you know what I'm an out on name tags. Yes. No name tags. Yes. It's so bad. And it's, I mean, it's the same situation as like two years ago when I had nothing to offer someone like you. If I were to DM you and be like, Hey, Cody, I look up to you. I'm in Austin. Want to go grab lunch. You wouldn't even open it. You'd be like, why would I spend an hour of my free time with this girl who has nothing to offer me versus it's like, now I'm here because I built something out of myself. Also, the reason you want to network is because you think that other people have the answers to what you're kind of going through. And you think everyone's more successful than you and everybody else has the answers externally, but it's really not true. There's so much free value online. And if you just get experience doing stuff, you'll solve more of your own problems than anybody else will solve for you. Oh yeah. Not to mention, I mean, if you can just become the best mentee of any mentor you ever have in life, you will have so many doors open. You can't imagine. Exactly. Because most people do nothing. Exactly. I had a girl, she was at my house a couple of days ago. I had a ton of my closers at my house and she was like, Shelby, I DMed you like a year ago saying like, I would love to like meet up with you and you never replied to me. So I unsent it. And I was like, girl, I never saw it. And she was like, but I'm here now. And I was like, why are you here now? Why are we talking now? And she was like, because I actually did something, got value and got around you. That's the difference. People expect so many free handouts of, oh, can you spend five minutes talking on the phone with me for this? Can you meet up with me for this? It's like, no one of value who values their time is ever going to network with you for free. There's always strings attached, weird dynamics, or it's just not true. And they, why do they have so much time on their hands to help you out for free? Yeah. It's really important because people don't tell you that. No. People lie to you and tell you the PC thing that, no, of course you should just have coffee dates. Have coffee dates and dinners with everybody and it's totally normal and that's bullshit. And that's why so many people are behind. And so I think it's super important. And even this idea of like communicating, like, I think the way that you communicate will often determine how much money you make in your life. And the better you communicate, the bigger the bank account. And so I'm curious for you, I think sales and communication are really similar. What do you think you have learned from sales about communication? What do the great communicators do? So they communicate with intent. So they don't just communicate to communicate. They communicate to get a goal across. And so that goal coming across, I mean, in networking, it could be getting a connection with someone. In dating, it could be securing the next date. In sales, it could be getting someone to buy something. So they come, it's all sales. So you just communicate with an end goal in mind that you make sure gets done by the time you're done communicating. So sales is just, okay, we're communicating, but I'm leading the conversation 10 steps ahead in order to get it over here. And so the way that you do that is you ask questions, somebody answers, you're actively listening, yes, but you're also steering the conversation. And you're thinking 10 steps ahead of, okay, now they're telling me they're pain points about this. I'm not just going to dive in, attack that right now and start selling. I'm going to kind of keep that in my back pocket, use it as ammo later on. And I'm going to go to a little bit more questioning and then plug and play our product or service to those pain points they gave me earlier. So you kind of have to see what we're doing. So what does it sound like to do it badly? So let's say you're meeting somebody for the first time, you're trying to get them interested in you. Maybe you're trying to get them interested in a date. Like what is a bad way to do that? What's a bad way to communicate in a good way? You talk about yourself the whole time. So guys are really bad at this, especially in sales too. Like any sort of negotiation, nobody cares about why you think what you have is so good. They care about why it can be so good to them. So it's different leverage points. Like for example, rich people care about saving time and getting things done right the first time. Poor people care about getting the best deal and just getting like a couple of dollars off. Old people care about security, young people care about the dream. Women care about beauty and you know, making sure that you're genuine in who you say you are because women have a really good intuition and they're scared of getting sold. Men care about their ego a lot of the time. So you have to kind of boost them up and let them sell themselves using their own words. So it's just different approaches, talking to different people but knowing the leverage points. If you're putting in the work that my guest Shelby Sapp is talking about, like the reps, the calls, the door knocking, the relentless optimization, I know you're probably like me. You're not sleeping as well as you want to. And the crazy part about that is that means you're not performing as well the next day. So I use something called the pod by 8 Sleep that I swear I would talk about this even if they weren't the sponsor of this podcast. It is not just a mattress. In fact, it's not a mattress. It's a cover that goes on whatever you already sleep on and it actively heats or cools your bed down to 55 degrees. If you're a dude, if you're me, like a chick, you don't want that. You actually want to be warm because your body temperature has to basically drop. To hit deep sleep. So it does this automatically all night. I get to get in warm and toasty and then it gets me to the right temperature when I'm asleep. What's really cool is this thing called autopilot. It basically learns all your patterns. So when do you get knocked out of different cycles of sleep and it adjusts in real time. So you don't even have to guess. You don't have to have a ring or a lame looking strap on your wrist like a biohacker. You can just have clinical grade tracking built into your bed. It goes right on your phone and it produces with 99% accuracy, your heart rate, your HRV, your respiratory rate, always to say like, did I sleep well last night or not? Then every morning you get this report that tells you exactly what happened while you sleep. But I swear, some days I don't even care about that because the results are so ridiculous. 34% more deep sleep falling asleep up to 44% faster. I don't need to be a biohacker to want that. That's like not soft numbers. That's the difference between a really good day and a sluggish one. So I'm obsessed with this company and this bed. I credit it with keeping my husband and I'm married and he actually does too. And he's the hardest customer. So go to 8sleep.com slash big deal. Use my code deal for $350 off the pod. This is like my favorite gift to you. I think we've ever given. You get 30 days to try it at home. If you don't like it, ship it back. But they're that confident and so am I that you're going to be obsessed with it. So that's 8sleep.com slash big deal code deal for up to 350 bucks off. Because you know what? We got to get our beauty sleep. All right. Let's get back into it. What about negotiation? Like is there a way for a customer to win in negotiation with a salesperson? Yeah. So I also want to break limiting mindset around sales too because in a sales conversation, both people have a job as a salesperson. Your job is to sell your shit for as high as possible. Okay. And a customer also has a job. Their job is to buy whatever the shit is for as low as humanly possible. So you guys both have a job. So as a customer, why should you feel you never feel bad about your job? If you were to go to your friend and be like, let's go to the car lot and get this car for the best possible price, you'd be like, hell yeah. But as a salesperson, if you were to say, I'm going to sell this car for the highest possible price, people are like, that's so rude. Why would you ever didn't know you guys both have a job? So why would you feel bad about doing your job better than the other party? Right. But to your question, the consumer side. Okay. You have to be willing in a negotiation. Let's use like the car sales example in a negotiation. You have to be willing to walk away. You can't be afraid of a longer sales cycle because the sales person will try to sell you. They'll keep following up. They'll keep sending you more stuff, giving you better deals, different discounts, different holiday discounts. Don't be afraid of a longer sales cycle. And then also when you go in for the first time, have comps. Be like, why should I go with this one? There's one right over at the other dealership 20 minutes away for a little bit cheaper. Like why should I go with you guys? So having comps is a big one. And also it's just salespeople can smell when you're ready to buy and when you're kind of like itching for a new car or you're ready to buy. And they'll prey on that. You know, they'll try to hold it for the highest amount possible and not give you a good deal. But if they can sense that you're just, you know, if it's not your number, it's not your number, you're not going to buy it, then they'll match your number. It's just the energy that you have. Do you think that sales, like, do you think the great salespeople are also the most easily sold? Oh, for sure. I love buying things. But it's because it's not, well, number one, they have the money to do so. But number two, it's you love the grind and you love supporting someone that you know exactly what they're going through. Like when people knock on my door, I'm like, let me get you a water. Do you need any snacks? And I always buy whatever they're selling, but I make sure I buy it for the lowest possible price, right? So salespeople love when you sell them. Also, people are so afraid of selling salespeople because they're like, oh my gosh, they know what I'm doing. It's like, yeah, call it out. You're a salesperson. You know exactly what this is. I know you're super busy. I'll cut it in half just because I want to get you in and out and I'll be very blunt with you. I know you know exactly what I'm doing right now. Salespeople love to hear that. They're like, hell yeah. And then you start building rapport on what it's like being in sales, what you're doing, asking the salesperson for a little bit of advice just to let them have their moment or whatever. And then sincere closing. You always have to sincere close another salesperson. What does that sound like? What is a sincere close? So a sincere close is taking the yes or no off of the product and putting it to yourself. So you're making the sale personal. You're saying it's not about this anymore. It's about I want your business so bad because I know what's on the other side. I know what we can do. I know you're going to buy this at some point in the future. Maybe it's with the next person that hits you up about whatever it is that you're selling. I want that person to be me. I've seen what it looks like with other competitors with us and I want to be the person that shows you XYZ transformation. Would you please give me a shot to get you in the door to show you and then I'll earn your business for life. So it's like you just put the sale back on you. But the key with this is you have to earn the right to do so. You can't just sincere close someone that you just met that you don't have a connection with. This is why building rapport is so important throughout the sale. And then the question is how do you build rapport with someone right. Bad rapport looks like oh my gosh you're from Florida. My cousin went to FSU. That's so funny. Oh my gosh I love your hair. People hate when you're fake. And so before the sales process comes about don't say any of that stuff because they know that you're only saying that because you want to get a commission. And so just further increases their sales resistance while you're trying to sell them. So instead and I use the analogy of like if someone were to text you from high school and be like hey Cody like your dog was so cute I saw him on your story like hope everything's going good you'd be like why is this person reaching out to me like what do they want you know. And then you're like thanks haha and then they hit you with hey let me know if you're hiring a contrarian thinking right. And you're like all right there it is there it was. If someone hit you up and was like hey I see you're doing such big things over here I would love to get a chance to get hired. Also I saw you post your dog how have you been since high school. It's more genuine when you flip it. So you always have to flip the difference between rapport and then the sell because that's what everybody does. It doesn't work. It makes you more of a sales person to selling them providing value and then building rapport after. So what do you do to sell like people who are hard in your life personally. So let's say you're trying to sell like you know your parents your kids like what are the secrets to selling in everyday life. Not even a product. Okay so you have to create a clear game plan. This is for any conversation. So sometimes people don't say no to you because they don't want to do what you want to do. They just say no because there's too much confusion around it and they don't understand exactly what step one two three four five looks like after they make a purchasing decision or even just a decision to eat somewhere to show up to an event whatever. So you have to be clear on creating a game plan for someone. You have to create more confusion around not doing something versus doing something because when someone enters any sort of conversation where you're asking them to do something there's more hesitancy around doing it versus just staying the same. But if you create more confusion around not doing it versus doing it then the brain follows the path of least resistance they'll be like sure let's do it. And that's why sales look so easy like the top sales reps they really don't overcome ten different objections at the end of a sale because they funnel it so well. They preempt your objections they're super clear on the game plan that you set to where you can look at everything and be like sure let's do it. People don't understand that sales is creating a whole clear game plan and it's not waiting for a no and digging yourself out of ten different holes at the end that's not what it is. Yeah it's a really good point too because I think a lot of times with sales we assume that one the other person is always trying to sell something that's bad for us. For sure. That we have some innate reaction that every time we're getting sold as bad what if you're getting sold on your dreams. What if you're getting sold on the opportunity you never would do unless somebody else pushes you and was a little bit of a bully. Let me tell you a story so when I was first getting into sales I had so much anxiety I hated talking to people like people would talk to me I would stutter on my words I would think about it for like five to seven business days like I hated talking to people I seriously hated it but I wanted to stack cash and I wanted to make a lot of money so I decided to do door to door sales and I'm like whatever I'm going to do it I fly out to Minnesota state I've never been to and the night before I was supposed to knock my first door every single like limiting belief in my brain hit me all at once I'm like I'm the only girl here they don't even have uniforms for me they don't even think I'm going to do good and stay past a week I don't know the pitch I hate bugs I don't know how to talk to people someone's going to open everything hit me all at once and I felt this fear and I caved and I called my manager and I was like hey like this looks good thanks for training me but like I'll just come back next summer like what's the harm in like not doing this right like I'll just come back next year he essentially had to sell me on staying and coming to the next day and so his cell was very direct it was it was something along the lines of the timing is not perfect like there's never perfect timing there's just time and what you do with it like you're showing up tomorrow and he hung up yard closed me but if he didn't sell me into that opportunity the news flashes is like I wouldn't have gone back next summer and I would be doing something with my master's degree working in an office right now so it's like at some point you kind of find freedom in being the person that can help someone overcome a hurdle of a limiting mindset because think about this everybody thinks that over that objections are just fancy word tracks that you can say one or two sentences and someone changes their thought process that's not true objections are an outward projection of a limiting belief that they've had their whole life so for example if someone tells you it's too expensive they've probably said that to a lot of other things in their past they've probably gotten the cheap gym membership over the nicer one the cheaper car over the nicer one whatever they probably cheaped out on a lot because they're in cost-based thinking instead of result-based thinking so it's more reframing their beliefs around investing into something that can help their life if someone tells you you know the spouse objection or I need to talk to my mom my boyfriend my husband my brother whoever it's probably because inside they feel like they don't have the confidence in order to make their own decisions and they have to consult someone before making any big life-changing decision it's a lack of self-confidence so this person needs empowerment and needs confidence right if someone's like well I just need to do my research they probably made a couple of bad decisions before to where they were like I should have done my research so you're not objections don't just come out of nowhere they're a limiting belief that you have to attack more of like the core values on and that's more elite sales like people will tell you fancy word tracks and I even make videos I'm like the six sales objections in 60 seconds it's like I wish those worked but it's not just like one quick thing that makes someone say yes it's actually sitting down and having a whole conversation with someone that's so good you have objection handling on almost every big thing I've seen on sales and I think we just went through a couple of them but one thing that I think kills more dreams and we see them all the time because I try to quote-unquote sell people into buying businesses for sure and at a certain point like I don't really care I think you should do whatever you want to do with your life and and mostly I believe that people are predisposed to already want the thing that I'm selling or not and if they're not then I don't try to sell them like then they're also not a qualified buyer that wants to start a business has to be hungry has to be gritty right so it's also about like believing in what you're selling in what you do to a point where you're like this is so good if you don't want to I can't help you at that point and that's actually the secret sauce of sales is being able to be like this is so amazing like if you can't see that I can't help you and if you can't get yourself in the door you really can't do this long term so it's more of the thing where it's like I'm not gonna sell you on this you at some point you have to change your own life like I'm not gonna force you to do anything I like that it's like an anti-sale yeah it's a desal it's when you pull back so sales is a dance it's like you push a little bit and then when you realize you're talking a little too much and you're like oh I'm doing too much you pull back and so it's just kind of an in and out and in and out one thing you said about door-to-door sales is you said I teach people to show their hands probably in door-to-door sales for safety but also when you show your palms it shows genuinity if that's a word I think it is but when you show your hands and when you like nod with people and you're like it this tells me tell me more this tells me I'm just I'm here like you do what you want to do so changing those kind of body languages and tonalities around what you're saying sales is like 80% your body language and tonality it's not really the words people are so hung up on what do I say it's like no you just have to hold space for someone to open up to you and solve the issues that they're going through what are the most common hand gestures that we don't realize are more powerful than we think right so there's different body languages that you use for different parts of the sale so whenever you want to regain control regain authority kind of set the tone like in the beginning what do you see a CEO do in an important meeting and kind of put their hands down they put them on the table their hands are down whenever you're overcoming objections it's very open very honest I'm just telling you how it is whenever you're going over a price or something that you think might trigger a little bit of resistance would be like oh my gosh like I don't want to magnify this moment you like we said you kind of like lean back you chill whenever I drop price on a master class or whenever I do on a sales call or in door-to-door it's always just chill I'll wear glasses I'll put the glasses on my head whenever you drop price and when I said drop price that means like put the first initial price out but price dropping is different price dropping is when you're making something cheaper or offering payment plans you have to look a little uncomfortable while you're doing it you can't just be like oh you can't afford it we'll just do a thousand dollars cheaper or no problem we'll just split it up it's like why didn't you tell me that before so you have to one justify a reason why you're dropping the price either take something out that way it can match the value whatever or you can just look a little uncomfy like a little like neck move a little like I can't do this because I'm not like I can't do that one anymore but it's just kind of like or I call or like with your lips like well you kind of like look a little uncomfy while you're doing it that way it conveys that you don't do this to everyone and that it's a little bit more of a special occasion so good what about what about like how many reps do you feel like you need to take to get really good at sales mmm okay so it depends on if you're doing cold leads or warm leads but I feel like the rule of a hundred stands true I forget what book it was that I read but it was like if you do something a hundred times for a hundred days you become an expert and it's true like if you just get your reps in it will work and so everybody thinks that you need the skill in order to be good it's no you need the quantity before you get the skill you get the skill through just doing it like you don't what's the phrase it's like you don't learn how to swim by reading about water you just have to throw yourself into it and you learn what you like to say what you don't like to say what feels weird and icky versus what really hits with your clients coming out of your mouth like you just learn your own selling style through actually doing it but that's the band-aid that you have to rip off if somebody's gonna listen to this today what do you think they will take away after listening to this podcast probably that sales people have all these little tips and tricks that they're using on them which I think is a really good realization to have because it's true and I'll always be 100% honest in any video that I make any podcast that I do like there are some little kind of manipulation things that you can do in sales okay that's the game that's being played like I'm not gonna pretend like there's not you know like there are some things that sales people do in order to make you talk a little bit more in order to make you feel the type of way but that's the game that's being played you can either learn to notice it that way you can be a more conscious buyer or you can learn to play it and really get the upside of that how much money have you seen people make from learning how to do sales my top closer made $62,000 last month and she used to be a barista making $4,000 a month how many of those you got like I've seen in lots of ladies say that so she so well not lots saying 60 but she's she's an outlier for sure I mean that's more than a doctor or lawyer I would say like a realistic level for no sales experience is 20k a month I always say like I'll brainwash you into normalizing a 20k a month because genuinely like a 20k month in sales really isn't that far-fetched and so it's just not and it's weird to say that out loud because I remember the time where like I was working for $8 an hour three different minimum wage jobs and did I work harder back then versus now I mean not they're kind of the same like the amount of work that you put in you either get assigned a dollar amount or you can get paid for the work that you put in but it's like only certain amount of people will put themselves in the vehicle to where their paycheck can match what they put into it because there's no ceiling but there's also no floor so it takes like a special level of confidence in yourself to say no no no my security isn't a dollar amount that I sign you know this is what I'm gonna get paid per hour per year my security is myself and when I build my skill sets up I know that I can make this worth it for me because I have the skill sets to do so yeah yeah it's one of the things that I wish like almost everybody would learn because even my employees like I don't love when people come to me and say like I just want more money you know what I really like I love when they come to me and they say hey I want to make more money here's like a bunch of things that I think I could do additionally it's gonna lead to this much revenue for the company if I do this and a or this much savings if I'm actually able to do that do you think that I can earn more and I think people are crazy that they say this is a sales job every job is a sales job interviewing you know yeah well also let's think about the fact that if you work at a company the only reason the company succeeds is because you sell somebody sells something somewhere I mean Carl Icon famously said someone gets to eat because somewhere else somebody sold and so I think it's really powerful so I guess what would you say to somebody who like they're not in sales they do any other fucking job in the world how can they apply sales to like an interview yeah or how could they apply sales to even asking for more money without coming off like a dick exact so it's exactly what you said because you thought of the you have to think of the leverage point of the person you're talking to so if that's your manager or the owner of a company they don't care that you think you deserve more money and also that's entitlement like why why should they pay you more than the next person like seriously you have to tailor whatever it is that you want in this case scenario it's you know more money right to what the company wants what does the company want to do they want to make more revenue obviously so whatever that looks like hey I think that we can make more revenue if I input this this and this and I pull these two lovers I'm willing to do so if you guys pay me this amount in order to do that does that sound like a good game plan and that's the game plan that you have to be clear on you have to have value in order to like ask for something after you can't just be on your very first day oh well I think I deserve this no you have to prove your worth first and then once you prove your worth a little bit then you can sit down and reevaluate that conversation by saying hey out of everything I noticed I can pull this lever I can pull this lever and I can start doing this but in order to dedicate more time it needs to make sense monetarily to me in order to invest my time long term into this what do people ask you more than anything else about sales like are there questions where they always want to know this thing is it an MLM is it a scam they always say that I'm like so some sales jobs are like you get paid to recruit people like when I was in door to door like you get paid on recruiting your team the caveat is I don't think that's a bad thing I think when you're a sales manager and you train your team you should get paid for that right you should get paid a commission percentage based off of how good they do some people find that icky whatever other sales industries like high ticket you close deals for an online business and you get paid that amount there's no recruiting so it's just kind of one of those I guess things that people think oh it has to be this but it's really not when it comes to the actual sales process though they always say something along the lines of how do you read people and so I always say it's different for different types of people there's two different buyers and I know I mentioned you know old young male female all these things those are kind of archetypes but the two really solid types of buyers are emotional and logical so some buyers buy purely on emotion and these are the people where you want to build on the dream build on the pain have them visualize what success would look like logical buyers you do that like I'm a logical buyer if someone was like how would this make you feel I would be like no why would you ask me that like someone asked me that I was like okay we're done here logical buyers they don't trust a salesperson because a salesperson is trying to sell them like they kind of know the game that's being played right like a lot of people that are listening now no you will all turn into logical buyers now logical buyers they only trust one thing they trust data because data doesn't lie so your job as a sales rep is to kind of clock is this person going to buy off of emotion or they're going to buy purely off of logic and if so logical you need to rely on numbers which is hey if you don't do this this is the opportunity cost over x amount of time and x amount of time you know your revenue decreasing if you're selling a fitness program the weight that you're gaining whatever what's on the side of not making a decision then if you make this decision what's on this side and these are the numbers that you set with them on a realistic goal point that has to be in reality for them it can't just be I want to make a million dollars a month right has to be a realistic goal so you basically say crossroads these are the numbers if you don't do this these are the numbers if you put in the work and you do do this now it's up to you and that's what a logical buyer will like what is the best sales pitch that's ever been done on you it happened like five days ago no actually yeah well maybe it's just the last one I can remember but it was so good so it was an event planner I don't know if you know him his name's icon okay he does a lot of events for like speaking events but we're on a sales call with him and he's going over the price of all these little things that it's going to take to put on our event and it starts at 1.9 million of all these little things the venue the speakers all the things and then he's like okay let's go down the line and try to figure out like how to shave a couple bucks off here and there we got it down to like 1.6 then I'm like well we'll see how much your fee is because I'm like I don't know if we're going to go with you yet and I know he's probably charging a commission on the event blah blah blah then he makes me and my business partner double down on the 1.6 he's like okay so 1.6 is that doable like is that okay with you guys right now and we're like yes but we'll see how much your fee is then he goes to the next slide and he goes my fee zero dollars and we're like what like I don't want you if your fee is zero dollars right he goes no no no it's it's actually already in the 1.6 and he just whited it out on the excel sheet and so we just didn't catch that it was already in there but it was already in there so we made us double down and confirm that the 1.6 already worked and then he was like all right you guys already agreed to my speaking fee it's already in here we're all good to go you can put your deposit in now and we did so yeah it was very sneaky but I liked it and so I think when people are like what makes a great salesperson great it's something called the pattern interrupt where you have to be different than every other person that's pitching these people so everybody sounds the same you know everybody does the same questions the same word tracks you have to be different so you have to find little unique ways to position your value but also position the close and different objections that make you stand out and as a salesperson he was like I was scared to pitch you knowing you're the sales year and I was like yeah I was definitely going to try to negotiate your percentage down um but I respected it he did it in such a creative way where I'm like you know what fuck yeah for sure like I like that let's do it yeah so that's the thing I think people don't realize too is that if you're going to be a top tier salesperson and you surprise and delight someone with the way you sell them they are going to thank you for the close exactly when you're a trained sales rep people will respect it like everybody knows what you're doing but when you're good at it people love to be people do love to be sold I take that back people hate to be sold but they love to buy so if you disguise it in a way to where you're like very straight up this is what I'm doing like it's very black and white here's what it's going to cost in order to do this people love to buy stuff they're either going to buy from you or somebody else so might as well be you if somebody is terrible at sales like somebody's like I'm a bad communicator I'm bad at sales what are typically the main reasons why no one will ever listen to you or buy from you because they only rely on the words and they sound like a robot and they sound like just some NPC like you might as well be AI they're I you would be so surprised I've hired people that are you know they can talk to people they're beautiful they're charismatic but when it comes to getting in front of a client they sound monotone like a robot and they're asking surface level questions which create a surface level buyer no trust is built versus if you're someone that just can talk to people and treat it like a FaceTime call with your friend talking through a decision that's who does good in sales is just who's genuine so yeah it's true I have a little short king that's like one of my best sales guys too we love a short king and he uh he just is really caring about people and curious curious super curious so I always have my sales girls take a sticky note and write three letters on it WHY why and they tape it to their or I guess stick it to their computer you will be so surprised how many deals you could have gotten by asking that one simple question why when someone tells you something because it allows them to go deeper I was auditing one of my girls sales calls and she was talking to a stay-at-home mom and she didn't clock that the husband was a big block in this he didn't want her to do anything all these things if she would have just asked that one simple question why or tell me a little bit about nick was the husband's name she would have gotten the deal because she would have been able to preempt the objection in order instead of getting it at the end of the call and not being able to do anything about it yeah I want to talk about shadow influences so I know a lot of times in more sophisticated institutional sales the person that you're talking to is not the person who is actually the buyer like a gatekeeper yeah it might be a gatekeeper or you might be they might not even tell you so for instance we do a lot of institutional sales we you know sell investments to big companies and nobody wants to feel like they're not the decision maker they want to feel like they're the important one and so you might not even realize you're not talking to the buyer you might be talking to the user aka the wife but the buyer's the husband and you don't even realize that you need to change the sales pitch because you got to talk to this other person how do you figure out who is really in charge in a sale so if it's different between a gatekeeper and a non-decision maker so a gatekeeper is like a receptionist when I did door to door sales there were a lot of house managers and big mansions or maybe their kids answered the door or whatever a gatekeeper is different because the sale with the gatekeeper is you're not selling the product because that's not their decision to make you're selling the chance to pitch the decision maker versus if you have a non-decision maker in front of you you are you should never reveal price without having a decision maker present with you so you have to use the price as leverage in order to get the decision maker on the call or in front of you so it's like I would love to have all of us like right here that way when I go for the price we can all ask our questions together I'm sure he or she has a ton of questions also never assume that the girl is not the decision maker because nowadays I feel like they're literally the decision maker more often than not the guys and so never assume that someone's the decision maker if they're not or vice versa and like you said always make people feel important and make people feel like you're a helper because if you're a salesperson they won't let you near the decision maker but if you're a helper and you're trying to help people then they will guide you to that decision maker what about an everyday trick like is there anything you do to kind of get your way at the airport at restaurants like in just the day-to-day as a sales hack ask literally just ask nobody asks I was late to my flight last night in order to get here and if I were to miss that flight it was at like 10 p.m. and I got in at like 2 a.m. this morning if I were to miss that I wouldn't have been able to be here so I get to Miami airport security line is packed and most people would just wait in line they would be scared of everybody else in the line like oh I don't want to ruffle any feathers when you're in sales you realize that people are just people and like you're really not that important you know and people don't really remember you so I basically just went up to the front I was like I'm so sorry would it be completely crazy if I cut you I have a flight that's leaving right now I'm so sorry I hate to do this would it be again would it be completely crazy if you were to allow me to cut you and she was like oh no you're totally fine that's fine and did everybody in the back be like this brat probably but I don't care because I'm here now so people underestimate a simple ask and it's like you don't need to have the confidence to ask you just need to ask in the more amount of time that you ask for different things in your life whether that be a raise a job cutting someone in line at the airport I did the same thing for my uber driver to get into the express lane so he could go even though we were stuck in traffic I was like would it be completely crazy if you got into the express lane he was like no but can you tip me and I said yeah so you just have to ask people and you'll be surprised the boundaries that you can cross when you just are super blunt human and just ask yeah one of my favorites is also repeating somebody's name nobody asks for a name anymore you go to a restaurant you go to a bar and all you do is like oh hey yeah I'd love xxx sorry what's your name exactly it's so powerful I was at this event the other weekend with a bunch of kind of famous fancy people and they were bigger and fancier than I was but my husband and I like started talking to the guy who was kind of sitting around the VIP area and so like when it got situated I'm like hey Jeff like what's going on can we get in here what are we thinking right and he's like yeah just like go ahead everybody else is waiting including the dudes who had like paid for all the stuff and I remember one of them came up to me like what'd you do I'm like I talked to the motherfucker I used his name that's it we don't have to be so crazy about what sales is also labeling labeling is an amazing tool that you can use in any area of your life it's the whole metaphor of if you want your dog to be a good dog you tell him he's a good dog if you want your boyfriend to be a very thoughtful boyfriend that gets you flowers all the time give him praise when he gives you flowers and say you're so thoughtful I love you so much I love how you treat me because he's going to treat you better the more empowerment you give him same thing that you do with your clients whatever your archetype of a buyer is maybe it's someone that moves fast is very good at decision making if you're talking to a business owner praise how you know you're I love how you take care of your team the fact that you're even on the sales call in order to help this specific process that you don't even necessarily deal with you really want to help them that way your whole entire business can run like I love that about you praising those little types of character traits and labeling them that way when it comes to a buying decision or an ask or whatever you need they will rise to that occasion because people want to rise to the occasion of the labels that you set on them whether that be a good partner good dog sweet mom amazing thoughtful friend or when you're in a new city and you're meeting someone you're like everybody here is so nice everybody here so open the amount of people are so sweet versus if you were to talk to someone you're like people here are terrible you're probably going to get treated terribly right so you have to be very careful about the words that you use around people because whatever you use around people in the expectations that you shift on them is how they're going to treat you whether that's in sales or not so do you think you have to be really careful about how you label yourself yes so getting good at sales makes you roll your own objections in your own mind everybody has objections I'm not good enough I don't deserve this position I don't deserve to get paid more I'm going to ask for this and they're going to say no you learn to take a fearful language this is objection handling at its simplest forms you take a fearful language you neutralize it ask a couple questions why am I feeling this type of way okay reframe okay well I'm feeling this it's actually this for example in objections are you scared to pay the price or are you scared to pay the cost do you want time or do you want information do you want to come to your spouse what do you want to come to your spouse with a problem or do you want to come to your spouse with a solution so it's different reframes that you can do in your own mind I think we're stepping into a new age where people don't like when you lead with names they don't like when oh the worst thing you can do in a conversation is oh I know so and so or oh I just helped so and like people don't like those names anymore it comes off super salesy and why should you leave with lead with the value that you've given someone else or that somebody else can give you when you should just lead with your own value and so it's kind of the same thing where it's like people see New York Times bestseller and yeah that gives you a ton of credentials but I do think we're also in an era where sales business and marketing is taking a more authentic approach where people love when you just do things yourself and when it's not your time is valuable your perspective should be too the economist cuts through the noise with the stories that truly shape your world how can you believe this new regime won't crush you just like the previous one online scams a stranger than they've ever been when the world's turned upside down know which way is up read watch or listen to the economist okay I want to end with one thing um I know we help the the ladies I know we do but also for some dudes listening they've been waiting for this moment but how do they help sell their ladies because a lot of times like you know I think we get more advice as women on how to get our men to do acts yes how can a man get his wife to do something that he's been wanting her to do take initiative that that's sales but that's also just life I use the analogy of like if a guy were to text you and be like hey uh do you want to go on a date where do you want to go what do you want to do after what time do you want me to pick you up do you want to uber there do you want me to pick you like you'd be like uh there's too much resistance built in that I don't even have time to reply to that or to even put my brain power into that so I'm just not going to reply and then that guy doesn't get a date with you versus the guy that texts you and he's like hey I'll pick you up at eight we're going to this place wear something like this this is the attire and we're doing this after it makes it so easy for you to say yes because you took initiative and you created a solid clear game plan to where somebody can just sit back relax and be like yeah sure I'll show up so that's easy let's go and then you get a date yeah and you don't even have to spend that much money no that's the other thing dudes think now you have to spend all this money to have a date no no you just have to have a plan the plan can be a zero dollar plan just have one you can literally go to the grocery store grab a couple like food items a little glass of like cheap wine set out a picnic blanket and go to a park and a woman would be like that was so thoughtful that was so sweet versus another guy just taking her to a nice restaurant that she's been to 30 other times yeah it's just that personalized touch that's really good let's play a game why don't I throw a bunch of common objections at you my favorite yeah and then you tell me how to kill these okay okay I need to talk to my partner you are going to talk to them you're either going to go with a problem or a solution a problem of hey honey should we do this what do we do or a solution of hey honey I decided on this and I would love if you would support me option b it's too expensive the price of the cost because the price is what you pay today the one-time investment of this which we also do have payment plans for or the opportunity cost that you're going to pay over x amount of time when xyz becomes a way bigger issue can you just send me some more information yeah for sure what would you like to know reviews testimonials blah blah okay awesome I'm writing up that email right now you know what instead of sending you an email and giving you a ton of homework because I know you're super busy let's just go over it right now I have this pulled up this pulled up and this pulled up let's just hammer it out right now back into the sales pitch I need some time to think about it a lot of people think they need time but what they really need is intentional time with all the information and so I know you're super busy you're just going to close the laptop go run this meeting go do this go take the kids over here but we have like 10 15 minutes left of intentional time to actually sit down and I've got all the information necessary in order to make an informed decision your competitor is cheaper no for sure they definitely are I mean why do you think so now they're going to tell me exactly why I am more expensive than them and that's the selling point they use through the sale I'm going to so annoyingly send these to all my sales people after I'm going to send all these to my sales people I was like is this what you're doing yeah I tried something similar it didn't work out you're married right yeah okay was he the first person you went on a date with nope so why would you let your boyfriend something that didn't work out stop you from finding your husband and again this is a dating analogy but the same truth stands still with why would you let something that didn't work out stop you from achieving the goal that you obviously still want to achieve because you're here with me I saw a bad review how many on which website on yelp there's like 10 right we've had like 12,000 people go through the program so I know it seems like a lot when you see 10 bad reviews in row you're like oh my gosh but when you take a step back and look at it in a data analytics type way 10 out of 12,000 like a 0.001 failure rate which I'd probably take my chances on that and that's also assuming that everyone that wrote a review went through the program and applied themselves in the same way that you say that you're going to apply yourself so we're already working with someone great you definitely should be xyz is a huge problem right now I'm assuming they're 100% perfect well no they're not 100% perfect okay well why and those data points of well sometimes they show up and it's not the best and something that's how you're going to switch them over maybe later sure how many days weeks months defined later well after this after this whatever okay on those two weeks how much what are what are those two weeks going to cost you you know are we talking revenue are we talking health are we talking whatever what are those two weeks going to cost you of indecision because in two weeks you're probably just going to come back and have the same issue if not worse and it's going to be more expensive later on what do you think we haven't talked about that we should to make sure people can make more money get what they want out of life change their life by listening to this conversation I think that we're stepping into an era where you need to know how to sell more luxury clientele rather than just low ticket type stuff and I really want to talk about the mindset block behind this because of course there's a bunch of little tips and tricks that I can't go over if you would like but I remember the first my first sales internship that being it was being door-to-door sales I loved selling poor people like I loved selling in the poor neighborhoods because poor and middle class because I just felt comfortable because I was like I came from middle class rich people were so scary to me and in my brain I'm like they're so rich they're so successful like they don't want to talk to me they're gonna shit on me they're gonna tell me to get a real job like um and so I would stay in the lower-income neighborhoods and then my manager was like you gotta go knock some of these bigger houses I was so freaking scared and if anyone's entering a sales conversation with a rich person you're like I'm so scared don't be because I walked up to this huge house and I was scared yes I would like walk up to it I would skip it I would walk up to it skip it I'm like okay just I'm gonna do it uh talk to the house manager obviously get him to give me the decision maker he comes he's like uh I'm in between calls I've got five minutes what's up and I pitch him and he immediately was like what's the lowest you can go and I pointed to my iPad I'm like this is the lowest we can go you can't go any low I mean you could take out the yard treatment but I'm if I were you if I'm gonna get it done I'm gonna get the whole thing done it just won't work the same and he was like okay yeah let's do it you have to hold your price and you have to hold your value with rich people because they'll do something called testing you they only want to work with the best of the best because their time is the most important lever not money they don't care about saving an extra 200 bucks I mean maybe they do but um they care about their time and they care about the opportunity cost of getting it done wrong versus going to someone else whatever so if I were to say uh well the lowest we can do is $800 because I just wanted to get the deal they'd probably be like hmm okay just leave your card and I'll decide later right versus I kind of did a little pattern interrupt or I'm like I told you that's that's what the price is like you can take stuff out but I wouldn't do that if I were you anyways he was like all right I've got two minutes left here's my credit card like here's my email here's the time that I want you need to do all the boring stuff and like I'll come back later so I do all the boring stuff get him set up he calls me later he's like thank you so much for just taking care of everything I hate when salespeople waste my time you just did it all it was so easy they came in it was great and he signed up six of his other rental properties because people like dealing with people that match their energy so if you're a salesperson or just even anybody in life match the energy of the person you're talking to so if someone's more laid back very chill you're going to be laid back very chill if someone's like that rich person where it's like go go go I'm super quick I gotta go guess what you're gonna be you're gonna have a little bit of urgency right and you're gonna go go go so you have to be a chameleon yeah it's really good and you're right I think a lot of times salespeople waste your time because they assume the most annoying line I think ever told by a salesperson never let them off the phone I hate that it makes I have a friend I won't say his name but every time I don't answer that fuckers call because you're an incredible sales guy but he'll just go and one more thing and one more thing talks talks talks talks talks and that's because I was old school sales training which was the longer you keep them the more you'll sell them and now I think our generation is the opposite exactly it's as soon as you get a yes you shut up and you sign them up you don't have to keep selling them after they say that they're down because people hate getting their time wasted and like I said the more you talk the more things that somebody the more data points someone has to disagree with where you kind of bring up oh and by the way we also have a warranty and by the way we also have this this and that now they're like wait what's a warranty now I have like 10 more questions you know instead of just keeping it simple okay I want to end on two more one is she sells you've taught like tens of thousands of ladies by now how to sell what's your secret tips like if I have if I'm a she sells girl by Shelby and I'm listening today what are the secret tips for sales that you're like my girls get this nobody else does I love that so remember how I talked about the environmental clothes and door to door sales where I'm like you have to move someone you can do the same thing over zoom and I never talk about that on social media because I don't want anybody else to use it because sales tricks it's like you teach it for a couple years and then everybody starts doing it and you have to come up with something different right so that's kind of one that I gate keep that y'all can have but I was thinking I was like environmental closing works so well in in person when you just move people because it breaks the frame of being a salesperson and now you're a helper I was like how do we do that over zoom when we're just stuck in a box well the answer is you'd be like oh sorry I need to plug in my phone really quick oh I need to go get water oh someone's at my door really quick this is when you find yourself in a position where someone keeps saying no no no no no because they start associating the physical surroundings with their no so you can kind of restart the conversation by being like hold on I need to go put my dogs in the room I'll come back in like two minutes because what does this person do you don't ask you just tell them what do they do they open up their phone they start scrolling they maybe check their email they just forget about how hard you are pressing for a second and the key is when you come back you turn your camera back on you're like oh awesome where were we the reason you say where were we is because this person is going to blurt out their true objection which they weren't giving you because you were going back in circles and they're like well we were talking about this but like I said it's just too expensive right now perfect now you can roll the price objection and you can actually close this person instead of just running around in random circles that's so good I guess my last question for today is if you had to give listeners today in 60 seconds one thing you want them to do after this conversation one thing that maybe could make them a million bucks one thing that can make them a hundred bucks what would you tell them today four things one never set a goal that has limits like when people say you have to be delusional it's so true you literally only have one life and if you're looking at other people and you're like I wish I had that you should be looking at them and be like they have that which is proof that I could do that if not more like you need to be so delusional in your own brain to where you're like I can do anything because you literally truly can but number two is you need to have the work ethic in order to back that up like you can't just be delusional and say I'm going to manifest all this but never actually put the work in number three would be consistency you have to put in the work on a consistent basis because consistency will outbeat someone that has motivation one day no motivation the next you can't lean on motivation you have to lean on what you can control which are your inputs of your consistency how many people you're talking to how many businesses you're starting how many times you're studying all the things and then the last part is people need some mother freaking urgency nowadays nobody has urgency people are like oh like I love Gary Vee don't get me wrong but I hate when he says you're you have time you're so young I started when I was 45 you have time you don't have time you don't because I find that if you're young and if you're in your 20s this is the time to freaking go because at some point you're gonna have other people in your life you're gonna have husband boyfriend kids people you're taking care of different liabilities to where it's harder to take risks because you have more liability if you have nothing to do but just your own day-to-day life you should be taking every single risk right now because also every single ounce of hard work that you put into your life right now whether that be working a normal job doing sales training whatever all of that hard work will reap you benefits maybe not right now but in the future and money's a lagging indicator so you might not see the results right now but you will over time and so if you're delusional if you have the hard work if you have the consistency and you have some mother freaking urgency there's no reason why your life shouldn't look dramatically different in a couple months this is amazing she'll be sap on all the socials I really like the Instagram and and and if you want to sell she sells yeah I love it thank you for being here today