This week on the Chef's Cut, Joe and I are talking about the recently released James Beard Awards finalist list. We're starting with the biggest shockers. I was sure they were going to make the nominee list. How judging actually works. Can you shed a little bit of light of like, what are they looking at? What are they looking for? And what we would like to see change. Buckle it. This has been my beef for years and I will die on this hill. The first Chef's Cut nation. We need 10 seconds of your time. Please take a moment to just rate and review the pod wherever you're listening. It really helps. All right, let's go. It is short list season. Jay, you're short list. It's an exciting time. The list is short and the feelings are high. I am so excited for this year. So many great people made the list and I want to be there to cheer them on. And I just want to be there to hang out with all my friends. You and Klugell. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think the most exciting thing when I see the short list every year is getting to see everybody who's coming to Chicago. You know, like Ayesha is coming. My buddy Vinnie from Cordelia in Cleveland got nominated on the short list. Like he's coming to town. Him and I did no kid hungry together in DC last summer. So super excited to have him back for it. Just a great list. It's a cool event for the city of Chicago. You know what I mean? It's a huge one for us. We love it. So it's always exciting having the best of our industry come to, you know, what I think it's the best industry city and get to experience it for a weekend. And you know what? This is going to sound silly in comparison to everything you just said. But one thing that I love about it is chefs look like dirty little boys all day. Like we're wearing baggy pants, baggy jackets, aprons. And this is like the one time a year that everybody like gets dressed up, like hangs out together and it's just a different feeling for that. It is the best. It's so funny. Like seeing all the chefs are like, oh, look at you. You know what I mean? You feel like like a proud parent. Like, oh, you put a suit on. You know what I mean? Like, you know, all the people who you only have seen like gross after work or like really early at the farmers market where it's like, you know, and then she's like, oh, wow, look at us. Huh? I mean, it's it's a crazy time. And we've been waiting for this for a couple of months. The long list came out what end of January. So I don't know. There were some surprises this year. There's some amazing, amazing chefs and restaurants nominated to be clear. Everybody on the list deserves to be there. No doubt. No doubt. I feel like it's always a matter of it's never like, oh, I can't believe this person made it. It's always a surprise. It's like, ooh, that person and there's just not enough room for everybody. Right. It's it's always a surprise of who lefts off. So looking at the shortlist this morning, age knee jerk reaction, biggest takeaway. Okay. So for me, one of the biggest surprises was this past year and even on the pod, like we've been talking to so many people about Caribbean cuisine and the rise of Afro Caribbean cuisine. It's all over the press. Some of the best new restaurants in the country from city to city are focused on Afro Caribbean cuisine. But when the shortlist came out, I didn't see that representation there, even though there were some restaurants on the long list. So that was a big shock to me because that was such a huge story this year that I thought there would for sure be representation on the shortlist. What was your knee jerk first take when you saw the list? I think my biggest reaction was one lack of New York on the national. I think lack of Chicago as well. Lot of California. Lot of Texas. Yeah. I thought that was really interesting. Lot of Texas. I know Texas is huge, right? Texas had five. Yeah. Texas is really, really big. So is California. Both huge, huge markets. But I think I was really, really surprised to see it's like Chicago, I feel like has on-years and off-years. But New York, I felt like that was extraordinarily surprising when you look at the big national ones. When you go from chef to restaurateur to restaurant to emerging to best do to outstanding bakery, all those like. Yeah. And I will say it's cool. It's cool seeing a lot of the smaller markets on there. Looking at outstanding, I think outstanding bakery might have the most eclectic list. You have Sisters Bay, Wisconsin. You have Anchorage, Alaska. Bethlehem, New Hampshire. Bozeman, Montana. And then Charleston, South Carolina. Like Charleston, South Carolina is the biggest city on that list. Yeah. That's crazy. So best new restaurant. Looking through that, you have, it's a crazy, again, you have to mix here. You got two restaurants from Missouri. One in St. Louis, one in Kansas City, which I will say, Kansas City as a market, if you have not been, ton of fun stuff happened there. Kansas City is a super fun city. I think it's a really slept-out city. It's great. You have a Milwaukee restaurant on there, a Houston restaurant on there, obviously massive city. I felt like Philly had a big year. You got one in New York. You got Lay. Is it Lee? Lay? Lay Wine Bar. They've been getting, it's, there's been like a ground swell of support for them for the past year. I've been hearing about them from everybody. Tons of write-ups. They were just in Bonap this week. What I found really interesting is some of these restaurants are very wine-focused too. So like you have Maison Bar-Avan in DC. DC. And the Wine Bar, like a lot of these places are very wine-focused, like kind of wine bar restaurants. So that seems to be a big trend this year. Well, even if you go to an outstanding restaurant, you know, stay at that same tip. You see four horsemen there, which you know what I mean? It's like the Wine Bar of Wine Bars. You know what I mean? You can argue is the coolest wine bar in the United States, owned by like the coolest dude in the United States, James Murphy from LCD Sound System. Right? It's great. I mean, I love, I love four horsemen. It's like really set a new wave. It's been open for like 10, 12 years and it really like set a new tone for the types of wine-focused restaurants and the types of food places do. It's great. It's really special. I've been there in different iterations of it at every time. I thought it was spectacular. So I think we got to get it to, you know, outstanding restaurant tour because obviously I did not make the shortlist. I don't know if you're aware. I know. I was very sad about that. But honestly, I was really hoping that I could be cheering you on in Chicago this year. Yeah. And I mean, I think for, you know, we're a restaurant group that's, you know, arguably five years old at the oldest, but like really a couple of years old from, you know, when we expanded. And I think so for us to be longlisted was a huge accomplishment this year. So I don't think I had any thoughts that we would make the shortlist. And I think, you know, the shortlist is stacked this year, but it was surprising seeing, you know, I thought, I thought our boy Simon would be on that shortlist for sure. I mean, he's been on it. He's been on a generational tear. Yeah. That one was really surprising to me, especially because there's nothing from New York on that list. He created a whole new genre and concept of steakhouse updated the style that a steakhouse could be and has turned this restaurant concept into a now global powerhouse brand. And the food is really good. You're right. Like that was a big shock. And when you didn't make the shortlist, I mean, like you said, it was your first year being nominated. A lot of people first year may not make it onto the shortlist, but you can be up again next year and more people will be paying attention. More people will be thinking that and then second year could make it to the shortlist. No doubt. But yeah, Simon, I was, I was shocked. That was probably the most surprising. The outstanding chef category. I thought it was surprising that one. You got three California chefs on that list. Yeah. One from Grand Junction, Colorado, and then one from Missick, Connecticut on a year where it's like that long list included, you know, greats like Missy Robbins. Right. Last year we had young sick, young sick one last year. Like New York, we had a really strong year last year in outstanding chef. We had Gabrielle Kruthor and young sick Yim, young sick one. And this year, Gabrielle Kruthor didn't make it to the shortlist, which I was, I was shocked by. Yeah. I also think it's interesting too when you see stuff like the chef from Capbird Seat was up for outstanding chef, but didn't make the shortlist, but the restaurant did for restaurant. You know what I mean? So that's always like an interesting one to be of like how that affects voters like in their favor, not in their favor. Right. All that being said, I think it's, it's always interesting. You don't even see it. Who's, who's left off. But there is somebody that we do have to give a special congratulatory shout out to who's been on the pod that made it to the finalist list. Girl, Aisha. Aisha Nergia. Shoukat. You know, the other one I want to give a shout out to, and this is, this is a, this is a small off the beaten path one, but best chef Midwest, Zach Baker at Caluchenzo up in, up in Wauwatosa. Tosa. Tosa. Tosa is sick all up in Milwaukee. I ate at Caluchenzo. I think it was a year and a half ago we went up to visit a friend at Marquette and it's, I think it's one of the best Italian restaurants in the Midwest. It's a small little, you know, husband wife place, crazy good, super simple, like just unreal. And I saw that he made the shortlist. Super, super happy for them as well, as well as my Balkan brethren down in Balkan, Tric Box, down in Missouri. Okay. So I have a question, Joe. Top five biggest surprises. It can be restaurants. It can be other categories. What's your top five surprises of long list that did not make it to the shortlist? Cause we agree. The shortlist is excellent, but what surprised you top five long list that didn't make it? I would say top five Simon Kim restaurateur. That was number one. I'd say outstanding chef, Missy Robbins, not making the shortlist. I think as far as outstanding restaurant goes, I mean, via Corota, not making the shortlist. Like I was surprised. I couldn't believe they hadn't won already. Like that's in my mind, that's institution level of restaurants in New York. I think it's one of the, the all time greats. So like that one to me was, was, was really, really surprising. And then I think, you know, for me, it's like looking at, you know, I have to go in my own backyard and talk about great lakes a little bit, right? So looking at the long list for, for great lakes, um, that we got three Ohio and two Chicago is kind of surprising. You know, Tidang not making the shortlist. He's been listed a bunch of times. Christopher Young over at Maxwell's. I was really, really surprised to not see him make the shortlist. I think what he's doing there is really, really good. And then the other one off that list, that ladder for wine bar in Detroit is everybody I've talked to up there is like, that place is crazy good. Another wine focus place. You know what I mean? You're talking about, you know, some things that are trending, but, but I'm not making it. And also like, you know, Rishi and Zubair have been on a just tear of opening restaurants in Chicago, you know what I mean? And they're all good. You know, Mira was the one on the list, but you know what I mean? They have, uh, they have the, the coach house and lilac tiger and they just opened Nado. And so, um, I was kind of surprised to not see them shortlist, but those are my biggest ones. What, what, what do you think? So I was surprised by Casama. I was surprised Red Hook Tavern, Gabrielle Kruth or Simon Kim. And then I'm, I'm really conflicted about this because in the best new restaurant category, I had two of the best meals of the year at Kaba and Bong. Bong is a Cambodian restaurant in Brooklyn and Kaba with Paul Carmichael, Afro Caribbean, Pan Caribbean cuisine, two of the best meals. And I thought it was going to be a death match in best new restaurant between Bong and Kaba and neither of them made the shortlist. So that was, and I feel like Kaba is the one where it's like every person I've talked to who's been, has been like, yeah, that's, it's, it's it. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, that's, that's my top surprises from this. Um, and again, I thought Caribbean cuisine, Afro Caribbean cuisine had such a huge year. Kaba would not making the list was a huge shock to me. I was sure they were going to make the nominee list. Speaking of the nominee list, you sitting on New York, you happen to little, you know, on the center baseball on this, because I don't know, I don't know who sits at Chicago. You know what I mean? I don't know who judges it. I don't know the criteria. Like, can you shed a little bit of light of like, what, what are they looking at? What are they looking for? Because I remember back in the day when I worked for Tony, like, whether the log lists would come out, they used to, if you had wanted James Beard Award, you got to vote. So him as a James Beard Award winner, he would get set a log list and it was like a log, like scantron form, right? Right. So you would go every region and you would, I think you'd get to click, you'd get to vote maybe like two or three per region. If I remember correctly, I don't know, in some or one. And it was always fun. Like him and I would go through together. Like I always look forward to it. We talk about all these chefs and, you know, talk about all the places we ate that year and which ones we thought were the best. It was a cool thing, but I don't think they do that anymore. Right? I don't think so. They've changed the process significantly to make it more of a level playing field. It's a cool process because every category has different criteria, so to speak. Like, you know, outstanding bakery, a brick and mortar has to have been open for three years. You know, best chef in a region has to have been cooking in that region for X number of years. It's a really cool process because it does look at restaurants holistically from how the staff is treated to how the restaurant is run to the guest experience. Buckle it. This is this is my this has been my beef for years and I will die on this hill. I wish I had a giant map around me to explain this. The regions are like reverse gerrymandering. They make zero fucking sense. Oh, no, tell me more. Tell me. All right. So just we're best chefs. All right. We go region by region. That's fine. California can have California. You know, New York gets New York State, right? That's great. They need they need New York State. It's a big region. I get that. We get Texas gets Texas. Totally understand that. This is my my my beef with this shit. Talk to me is best chef. Great Lakes. Okay. Wow. And best chef Midwest. So Great Lakes, you have Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio Midwest, you have Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wisconsin. So one Illinois has got to be Illinois. Chicago's got to be a top thing. You know what I mean? Like they got to let just Illinois be Illinois because it screws up the region where it's like this year, best chef Great Lakes. It's to Chicago, three Ohio, which is not usually the case. It's usually for Chicago, one from somewhere else. Right. That's true. So it's not fair for the rest of the region. So Great Lakes should be Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. That should be Great Lakes. Illinois should be Illinois needs to be separated out would open up the field would make way, way more sense because also all those places around the Great Lakes. So it feels fair. Yeah. I'm not I'm not fucking stretching here. No, no, that's that's reasonable. And then it opens up the Midwest to, you know what I mean? I think more of like seeing more stuff from Iowa, from the Dakotas, from Nebraska, you know, there is, you know, there's good amount of Missouri this year, which is kind of surprising. Missouri got four this year. I mean, it's, you know, the Midwest, it's like you look at it, it's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight states, and you have representation from half. Right. Yeah. So it makes it feel like it's too big. Like I'm not saying you have to have all from all, but it's like, you know, same as Great Lakes, you have Illinois and you have Ohio, you have no Michigan, no Indiana this year. And I mean, Indiana rarely gets it, but still doesn't matter. The other one I think the other most egregious one is Mid-Atlantic. DC, Virginia, Maryland. DC, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. I think like that one to me is crazy too. You know what I mean? Cause it's like, you look at it this year, especially it's like, you have four Philly, one DC. I think Pennsylvania stands on its own too. Cause you have two major cities there in Philly and in, you know, or you do Pennsylvania, Jersey, cause you have that weird, you know, like border. Right. Right. And then you throw Mid-Atlantic. It's also like Pennsylvania is not into Mid-Atlantic. Mid-Atlantic, Mid, Mid, what about, Midway to what? Mid-North Atlantic? Midway to fucking Ohio? And what geography world are we fucking living? This is insane, dude. Is that what is it? Okay. I know there's a map in the kitchen at the James Beard House. I've seen that fucking shit. Tell someone to look at it. If I were a basketball team in Pennsylvania, what region would I be in? You'd be in the East. Oh, OK, got it. OK, well, you know what? We can go buy basketball rules for this. Yeah. It seems like they're going by like the new ones where like they restructured all the conferences. But that's the biggest thing. I think they need to look at the regions. I think the regions are wildly antiquated. I think if they redid that, it would be better. It would be so much better. It'd be more interesting. It would be more, you know, I mean, it's never going to be fucking fair, right? You know what I mean? It can't be fair. That's not life, but I think it would make it. I think it would make it better. And I don't think it's like a crazy, crazy ask. But that would be the biggest thing I would change if they ever cared what I thought about anything, which I don't think they do. They are always evolving the process to try to make it better, make it more fair, make it more equitable and take things like that into account. And I know there has been discussion about regions before other people have brought this up. I've heard, you know, people from Florida are like, Florida should be its own region because you've got eight hour, nine hour drive. Well, 10 if you count the Florida keys between North Florida and the Florida keys. So getting coverage on a state that large is really difficult if you've only got two judges in Florida. Sure. And I mean, they go all the way from Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, Puerto Rico is also Southeast. So that's a huge, you know, that's swath to cover. So there has been discussion about that before, but it is it is really interesting. I mean, clearly you've thought about the the regions before. Yeah. Big time. It's it's a it's a passion of mine. I love that, Joe. This has been so fun breaking this down and we will definitely. Are we going to be in Chicago this year? Can we hang out? I mean, I'll be in Chicago. Are you coming out for the awards? I mean, I go every year. It's always like me and my sisters like hang out weekend and, you know, Stephen, we all kicked it last year. We had our podcast launch party. So we run with you last year. We might have to run it back. We might have to run something back, age. We should we should have another get together Sunday before the awards. How about Rosemary this year? Maybe. Oh, that'd be fun. Open up the windows, get a little street action. Yeah, I mean, it's June, so it could possibly be nice. I don't maybe. You never know Chicago. Never know. Never know. Joe, this has been such a blast. I can't wait to see who gets called when those envelopes are opened in June. Yep. So we'll have a good good recap on its overage. Till then, buddy. That's it for this episode of The Chef's Cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube, where you can get full length video of every episode and follow us at The Chef's Cut pod on IG. For Joe Flam, I'm Adrienne Cheetham, and this has been The Chef's Cut. Life beyond the past.
