The CEO’s Guide to Staying Healthy, Grounded, and Productive

I'm all about finding nutrient-dense options that are good for you, organic, whole foods, especially. I'm a founder who's always on the go, and I'm always looking for ways to eat something that fills me up, is good for my body, and also, it's properly sourced. And so daily harvest was a brand that I discovered, and I wanted to reach out to them and get their CEO on the podcast, because these guys are authentic, genuine, and their product is incredible. And it's very nutritious. So Ricky, thank you for coming onto the show today. Of course. Thanks for having me. How did you guys decide with all of the stuff in the space, you have a cigar, you have this, you have that. How did you guys decide to come up with daily harvest? And how did you guys decide to set yourselves apart? Yeah. So daily harvest, we like to say, we're real food made easy. Our founder's vision was very certainly we could change the way food was grown and the way people eat if we make it easy for them. At the end of the day, organic fruits and vegetables are the foundation of a healthy diet, and yet we all know that, but there's this friction built in. It doesn't taste exactly as we want it. We think about it in some non-convenient capacity. And so the early first instinct was make a product that is delicious, make a product that is convenient, and our first founding product, our ready to blend smoothies, are still our number one product, which people love. And on average, how many grams of protein does your smoothie have? So we actually have a range of different offerings. We are big believers for different parts of the day and different nutritional needs. You're going to have different needs. So we have a range of offerings, a range of protein content, but we just launched what we like to call our power five. It's smoothies with 20 grams of plant-based protein. And we also offer our own organic single ingredient, pea protein, so you can add additional protein if you're looking for it. Would you guys, because animal-based products are blowing up animal-based protein, as I was saying, bioavailable in a different way to plant-based? Do you see yourself as a market is moving more towards that to integrate more of that end? So I think what's really interesting about daily harvest is for our entire time, we've been based on organic roots and vegetables. We are vegan products, and yet we don't consider ourselves a vegan brand. And so while we explore different ways to make people happy and healthy, we are certainly open to the idea in the future about incorporating other nutritional components, including potentially dairy, potentially meat in the future. As you may know, we just were acquired by the incredible business Giovanni, who is built on dairy as a great protein source, so certainly something we'll look at in the future. How did you guys differentiate yourself in a market that is so saturated with so many different brands coming out? Because you guys have done an amazing job with your marketing, brand messaging, stayed really authentic and genuine, so how did you guys do that? You just said it, authenticity is what matters, maybe more than anything these days for a brand to be built successfully. We've always kept it very simple. We've tried to make it very clear what we are, what we stand for, and how we make it easier for you to get that foundational nutrition each day. We are daily harvest. We encourage you to make one simple choice each day, and it starts with breakfast. If you want it to be dinner, that works too, but for us, breakfast is the foundation of a healthy day. Running a company in the health and wellness space that has to do with foods, a lot of it comes down to farming and stuff, what are some of the biggest challenges being the CEO of this company you faced? We've never been shy to embrace complexity. The American food system, unfortunately, has prioritized simplicity and scale and efficiency. If you really want to deliver a healthy food system, one that ups a lift, up a lift's nutritional value for the individual, livelihoods for farmers, you have to lean into the complexity. That complexity comes from biodiversity, and we source from all over the country, and some of those ingredients coming from other parts of the world, building a supply chain that can manage that complexity has probably been the biggest challenge. We built that into our DNA from the beginning. We weren't going to shy away from that. Looking back at your journey with daily harvest and being the CEO, has it mean a specific moment in time that was probably one of your most difficult decisions to make? I would say two things come to mind. The first was, the pandemic was a massive accelerant for the business. People were at home, people were nervous and scared. How am I going to get my food? We had already had a major customer following and reaching out to them and telling them, look, you're scared right now, but we're here. We're available. We're going to continue to supply our food even at times. We didn't know what was coming, but sticking true to that and staying connected to the consumer was the most critical thing for us. The next was, we were a business built on the direct to consumer model, knowing that it was time to also pivot into the retail landscape to find more consumers and meet them where they were. It was a big change. You have an entire business model, an entire organization designed for one channel. How do you successfully make that leap? It was a critical moment for us. One, we're still figuring out, but I think those are two moments that jump out to me. And looking at how marketing has shifted and changed over the years since when you guys started, you went through the pandemic, you've come out on the other side. What are some of the biggest learnings when it comes to being a health and wellness brand when it comes to how you're approaching your marketing? There's always going to be a new trend. We see that time and time again in the wellness category. Each and every year there's a new one. We try to be the consistency in people's lives. Bring them back to that foundation. And I think you also have to pivot and understand what people are looking for. That evolves over time. We're living through a moment where more and more awareness and focus on the food system, the challenges that exist. People are looking for trusted voices. And so we've started to inject more of those trusted voices in-house, our chef, our nutritionist. How do we give them more of a direct voice and a connection to the customer? So the customer doesn't see just marketing. They see information that they can trust and information that helps guide decision-making for them. Do you guys do things which are seasonal? You just basically get stuff throughout the year. So the beauty of frozen. We like to say we're frozen for a reason is because you can pick ingredients at the peak of their harvest. So they're taste great and they're the most nutritious and then lock in all that nutrition through the freezing process. And so while we will introduce seasonal flavors from time to time, for example, our pumpkins by Slotte, which is truly built on pumpkin. Most of them aren't. Is a seasonal offering that people love. That being said, our organic fruits and vegetables come to you on a daily basis, on a weekly basis all year round because of that freezing process. And where are you guys sourcing from? Are you working in partnership with specific farms? What does that look like? Yeah. So we source across the country and we also source certain things internationally. As you might know, we don't grow a lot of coconuts here in the US. But we love to work as close and direct to the source as possible. We have a number of incredible partnerships with farmers directly. There's a really incredible project. I'm very proud of called the Almond Project. We've worked with our Almond growers and a few other brands to actually do a five-year study on the impacts of regenerative and organic agriculture for those farmers. So those are examples of where we'll go above and beyond, not just buying the ingredient or procuring the ingredient, but actually partnering with a farmer. And when it comes to your personal daily practices, how do you sustain energy being, you know, CEO running this, like, scaling company? It helps to work at a company that is based on organic fruits and vegetables because I truly believe that nutrition is the unlock. Are you vegan? I'm not vegan. But I eat a cherry almond smoothie every morning. Amazing. I add that scoop of our organic pea protein powder and that really gets me going. And I think, for me, I've always been connected to food. My background is actually in chemistry, but I was also a personal chef. And so I have this sort of dual reality of understanding the sciences and the sort of the art at the same time. Do you still work on any of the recipes at the gig-feedback on some of the recipes? Our head chef would love to tell me that I don't. I'm sure. No, if I've kept it. But I do love to be in the kitchen with the team. That's what I say. Yeah. I love to get in there. We love to talk and taste. I mean, I think that's what's been true and unique about daily harvest in the beginning. You know, to work at a company that everyone cares so deeply about the food. You know, from eight years ago, I remember sitting around the office and actually making time to sit together to eat. Eating at daily harvest wasn't sort of a lunch break. It was an opportunity to ideate. It was an opportunity to solve problems. And I think that's what food has always done, right? Food is a problem. You're right. Right to the other. Exactly. How big is a team? So we're just over 50 people today. Well, and everybody's based in New York. We're spread out. We've got a large New York base, but we're also some remote team members as well. And how has it done for you guys? I assume obviously marketing can be remote. It doesn't really matter. But everything comes to production and all of that is based in New York. We work with great partners across the country, right? We're a director consumer business first, retail recently. But so you have to get the food to people. We are a frozen director consumer business, which adds its own complexity. So we do have operations spread out across the country so people can get what they need. If you are taking protein powder, you definitely need to hear this. The Clean Label project tested 160 different proteins from different vendors and brands across the US. And you're going to be shocked at the discovery that they made. Nearly half of the top selling proteins in the US tested high for lead. And if you're somebody who consumes protein powder daily, this is something you have to be concerned about. And to make matters worse, most brands do not value transparency and will not reveal their test data online. And I want my community like myself to always make an informed choice of what they want to be exposed to and how they consume their daily protein. And that is why I love puri. I also sat down with the founder and had a full honest transparent conversation with him about how they source, how they educate their consumer, and also what their products offer on the market, which sets them apart. Their puri PW1 protein tastes absolutely exceptional and you know you're not getting the gunk of heavy metals in it to start your morning with. And that is why I absolutely love puri's PW1 way protein. And that is how I choose to start my day every morning. Every single batch is third party tested by the Clean Label Project and no product is ever sold unless it passes these tests. And puri is one of the only brands in the US that has a clean label product certification on their products. And that is only possible because they make all their third party testing completely transparently available to the consumer through a QR code where you can track the exact journey of the batch of product that you're purchasing. And you guys can see for yourself exactly how clean the PW1 that you're consuming in the morning is. Every single serving gives you 21 grams, a minimally processed high quality bioavailable protein. It comes from pasture raised cows, no GMOs, no hormones, no herbicides, no pesticides, and definitely no heavy metals. So this means I can start my day with confidence knowing I'm having something super clean to support my skeletal muscle mass. My personal favorite flavor is the verborin vanilla, no artificial flavors, and no funky aftertaste. To make sure your daily protein powder is not hiding any nasty chemicals and they're not being open and transparent with you. So if you want something clean, delicious, and bioavailable with the transparency, go now to get this amazing discount. puri.com slash biohacket. Switch over to puri's PW1 protein and you can thank me later. What are some of the biggest hacks for productivity that you've learned along the way? So because of my scientific background, I'm a big believer if you don't measure it, you're not going to know how to fix it. I do a lot of own sort of personal monitoring of my activity. Rather than set sort of an aggressive goal for productivity, I really take stock in what I've been doing each week, each month. Even something like exercise. We all know exercise is really critical as a foundation. Rather than maybe have an aggressive goal that I can't reach, I actually just measure. How many days that I get active this week? How many days that I get active this month? And that helps set a foundation and a baseline. And most importantly, I always tell people, you have to trust how you feel. There's a lot of hacks out there, a lot of measurables, a lot of wearables, which I totally support. But if you don't just take stock and pause and say, how did I feel today after doing X, Y, and Z, you're never going to really be able to fully embrace the full capacity of yourself? When it comes to your whole like farm to freeze organics, right? How does that set you apart from some of your competitors? So look, organic fruits and vegetables is not easy, right? In fact, there's a growing demand still for organics in this country, and yet we're seeing more and more farmland move away from organic agriculture. It's complex. There is a cost to it. And so we've really attempted to stay true to that belief that what is hard is hard for a reason. And we've got to make it easier for people to make those decisions. So I think a lot of brands, when they go to look for more consumers, they start to trade away their values. The food system, as I said earlier, largely built on one that is looking to get sort of the most efficient calories to consumers. We've always taken the harder path, which I think will keep us strong in the long run. And has anything like, you know, when there is a problem with food shortage or, you know, a certain item goes out of price? How do you guys factor that into your pricing? Are you raising prices in certain products? Are you just swapping out the recipes? Like, how do you adjust for that as a business perspective? We've got a fair amount of variety in our food offerings, and so we try really no hard not to sort of pass any of those challenges on to consumers, right? And ingredients are going to have different markets each year, different pricing each year. But we try to build a business that that is somewhat blind to the consumer, right? In the same way, Rachel started the business to keep it easy for people. We try to keep it easy still. We don't want you thinking about those things. We want you to be able to successfully make that good choice for each and every day. And when Rachel started the company, did she think the direction it's heading in now, this is where it would be, or has the market dictated a lot of different things along the way? Rachel instilled in me on an early days when I joined, as I said, my job was to help operationalize her vision. So much of what she believed in was listen to your consumers. The direct to consumer model is really unique in that you have this very direct line to consumers. So if you allow them, they're going to give you information that helps you guide decision-making. So we've really adopted a strategy listening to the consumers, make great products, help them solve different challenges throughout the day, and you have to be willing to pivot. Not everything is going to work. And I think that's the hardest thing for businesses is, do you become so risk averse because you're afraid something will fail? Or do you build a culture that allows you to try things? Like, really? And if it doesn't work, you move on. Which was thinking back, like being the CEO of this company, what was one of the biggest risks that you took that you didn't know where it would go, but it worked out? Fascinating question. Yeah, I think when we think about some of the latest offerings we've introduced, and we think about sort of being able to connect to an entirely new audience, we've started doing a range of more curated orders. We've been a company built on a subscription model, almost from the beginning, allowing people to move away from subscription is a business risk. Yes, of course. But that's what consumers are looking for. And so we've started to create and offer ways to purchase daily harvest without it. Obviously retail is a huge way to do that without subscription. But there's a lot more to come on this, so I'm excited for consumers in the next couple of months to see what we've got cooking. And when you say retail, do you see more people still wanting to walk into our brick and mortar and pick up their daily harvest? This data changes regularly, but about 15% of consumers want to buy food online. That means there's 85% of the consumers. We still want to go to the grocery store. And so we've got to meet consumers where they are. We've got to be able to have the right offerings at the right price for different target audiences. But retail is a big, big opportunity for us still. And when it comes to retail, who do you guys see yourself partnering with? Because every business has its own model, right? Do you see yourself being with the whole foods or the airwaves? Like where do you see yourself? So before joining the daily harvest, I was with a company called Vitacoco, the leader in coconut water. Coconut water, yeah. I love what they've been successful at, which is you actually can win in all retailers. It might look like slightly different offerings across the way. But that's a brand that works in whole foods and works in Walmart. My aspirations for daily harvest is that we're making healthy, accessible food based on organic fruits and vegetables everywhere. Right. Also, I think it's so interesting you have a background as a chef. So what foods do you recommend which are incredible for focus and mental clarity? So I know it's a moment right now. It's the moment that's long been waiting for is this focus on fiber. The fiber-maximation is finally hit. But it's so funny, right? Because protein is what we always hear about. Right, all the time. But actually feeling full and having satiety is what ultimately gives you energy, allows you to focus, really allows you to level up your performance. And I think what people are starting to really grasp on is things like sugars, things like proteins, things like carbohydrates are better absorbed and better actually. With fiber. Enablers, if you have the fiber with it. Right. And when it comes to things such as food and energy, what do you think most people completely get wrong? So I think people are looking for one a quick fix and I think. And everything in life. Yeah, that's true. But I also think that you, it's easy to sort of lose sight of the longer run. And I got brought this back up and I was talking about my own sort of management of my exercise routine. I try really hard not to get too locked into one day or one week. But try to build up those sort of habits over time. We like to say like start with breakfast, right? Don't skip breakfast, please. Breakfast is so important. But if you get that one choice right, and that's why we're so focused on daily harvest on whether it's our smoothies or our oat balls, allowing you to make one easy decision out of the gate that really sets the stage for your nutrition throughout the day. When you think of breakfast, what do you advise people to like how do they pair your products? If they want more than just smoothie, what else do you suggest they pair it with? Yeah, so smoothie with some protein powder, that's going to get you pretty much everything you need in the morning. But if you want a little bit more than that, like have a couple eggs, for example, right? Maybe something else. Maybe it's a great piece of sourdough toast. You got to trust yourself. And that's why I love to tell people, we want nutrition to be this sort of zero or one binary game. Right. So much a personal reality of how you feel, how you react to things. And so I try not to be too prescriptive because at the end of the day, what works for them, maybe different than what someone works for someone else. And for a business that does rely on a supply chain that's sometimes out of your control farmers, what's available, what can actually be sourced, how do you recover from like high stress environments, like high stress situations or setbacks in me and take place? You personally. On a personal level, this is something I really, I think, had a tremendous amount of experience with leading a company as certainly as stressful. I really try to step away and do something completely different than the day to day. And honestly, it sounds a little bit like old school, but going out and doing something for your community is an incredible way to get away from what you were just dealing with stress wise. I think we all know that feeling when you give back or when you help someone. Right. And that could be literally anything. Tutoring someone in your neighborhood, it could be going to a food bank and support. It could be showing up to support the high school football team. Like whatever it is, I think when you're in community and when you're giving back, it's a great way to create some perspective for yourself. Because if you're just grinding, if you're just in it, you're sort of stewing over the stress of the issue or the setback to your point, I don't think you ever really find the space in time to think through how you got there and where you're going to be in the future. How for somebody listening, can they, you know, they want to start their own business, and they want to build it? How do they build culture at the same time is scaling in the earlier days? Because in the early days about growth, growth, growth, growth. How do you instill culture with that? And what does that culture maybe look like? I think one of the maybe strongest leadership lessons I've personally learned and really tried to instill for the team and push my leaders that, you know, work within the company to exude as well is be yourself. But you, you have a world, a life, a reality outside of the company you're building. Right. I think some leaders think that in order to get everything out of their team to build and to grow, you need to be solely focused on the task at hand, the organization. But you as a human is the best way to get people motivated to work for you. If you display elements of what you care about outside of the job, people are going to get to know you more. They're going to think of you more as that human, not just the leader of the organization. And they're going to think about ways that they can drive even more value for the organization. And maybe open up more about themselves. Yeah. But allow you to then lead that individual even better. How have you been doing that personally for your team? So in the last 10 years or so, I've become a average drummer in a really fun band in New York City. Me too. I'm about our leader of Soros. And I have made a point to be very open about that internally, even to the point. How often do you play with this with the band? So I have an electric drum kit in the office. We play fairly frequently in New York City. And that makes a huge difference for me. It's a great personal outlet, like a creative outlet. But also, again, just sort of being very vocal about that and some of the other components of my life have allowed the team to get to know me in a way that maybe they wouldn't otherwise. I think you're Taipei. Oh, man. I'm certainly Taipei in a lot of ways. But I try to round that out. In the creative ways of drumming these stuff. How do you distill between pushing your team to do more and allowing time not only for yourself but also for the team for recovery? I struggle with that at times. Yeah, it's really hard. I think I often talk about the values I try to instill and foster the most in the team. Is a sense of curiosity, first and foremost. That idea when I'm taking a look around and I'm going, well, people are maybe showing up with less questions. Maybe there's a little bit too much focus on the day to day. We're losing that curiosity. That's a signal to me. But, okay, we got to pause and take a step back. How do we, again, maybe instill a sense of reset for the organization? It's amazing what that will do for you. If you, people are not showing up in a curious and sort of creative fashion. It means something's wrong. Right. And when you say curiosity, is that in their role, is that on the growth of the company, is that to do with market trends and what's going on in the space? I think it, it comes down to, you know, within their role, within the individuals' responsibilities, how are they showing up with their tasks, with their effort, with their strategy? You know, are they asking questions that tell you that they're really thinking about what their responsibilities are in a way that is like, this is not just about getting it right today. This is really about, you know, sustaining for the future and coming up with new ideas. And so it's going to manifest in different ways. But, you know, curiosity and conviction are the two things. If you show up to me and you present great idea and you show, hey, I thought about two or three different approaches here, but I've got this one that I'm recommending, that tells me you're really engaged. If you look back at so far all the marketing campaigns and all that you've done, what was one of the most successful marketing initiatives you guys launched for daily harvest? That really, maybe you weren't expecting the return on investment, but it was like completely blown you away. So I think we have the two things. I would say one, and we've always felt this way, if you can just try daily harvest, you're going to be hooked. Okay. I think, for a frozen director consumer business, finding ways to sample our food has been challenging. And so we'll be really successful out of late is finding a couple of key partners that share similar values and want to have daily harvest available and accessible for their community. That may not be in a traditional sort of retail setting. It may be much more in a, you know, there's this community that gathers each and every week or each and every month. How do we have our food there? How do we integrate ourselves into that organization? Again, it's a different version of sampling, but I think it makes a huge difference. The other is, I just think people want to be told very clearly the value and the impact the food can have. On their lives? Yeah. We've had a lot of really success recently with the concept of a reset or a detox, right? People want that opportunity to eat healthy every day, but we all know how hard that is, right? You've been traveling or been very busy at home. You know, how do I take a couple of days to reset myself? And for us, not to knock any of the other offerings that are out there, a lot of those things, you know, there's offerings that exist in the detox sense are sort of like very restrictive, right? Basically, we don't eat for 48 hours and you'll be reset. Right. For us, it's no, actually eat and be rooted in healthy foundation, you know, food based on organic fruits and vegetables like keep saying it, but it's who we are. And that is a sort of incredible reset for the system. I feel it. I go travel for work or then you come back and kind of do. I'm craving it at that point. I crave a couple days. When it comes to community events, can you give us examples of ones that have been successful? And how have you done that because it is frozen, right? So is it detauling and having stuff available as tasters or, you know, yeah. So I think there's a few different spaces. You know, we've had a lot of success building longer term relationships with, you know, wellness and sort of exercise partners, right? So that hold, you know, exercise classes or have their own communities. Maybe it's a run club or maybe it's an exercise studio. How do we do events with them in a way that brings the food on site? Our team will come and blend smoothies for you, right? And actually show up and be a part of the community versus it just sort of feeling like this giveaway, right? You know, standing outside the subway and handing a, you know, a granola bar. Sure. That's what sampling used to be. But for us, it's about really showing up inside communities. Another interesting one is, you know, my wife actually rides in the equestrian world and the show jumping world. And that's a community that is constantly rushing around, busy, busy, busy, and almost nutrition is sort of a- Second tier. Exactly. And so we've had a really strong partnership with some of the events where we actually show up and again make our food available for people. And the stop and pause moment that you watch people have to say, oh my god, this is exactly what I need, right? Right now to get me going. Yeah. Or to recover. And also again, being there as a source of information more than just food, I would say are the strongest examples. Do you guys look at nutritional studies that are coming out constantly because you said you have a nutritionist on the team as well? Are you guys looking at research and trying to pair different recipes according to research that's coming out? Or if something is supposed to be really good for you, do you incorporate it in? Yeah, I mean, a great example of that is we all know the sort of, you know, sort of expansion of GLP1s as a medicine that many are taking now. Whatever the latest that is, it's always astonishing to me. We actually have been able to curate a companion set for GLP1 consumers. It's more important than ever to get the levels of protein, the level of nutrient density that you mentioned that up front. And so our nutritionists work to actually create a curation sort of companion set for consumers. So we're always looking at what's happening both from a trend and a science perspective. It is, again, I keep saying it, but because we're based off of this sort of like first principles, try to truly believe that organic fruits and vegetables are the healthy starting point, there's not a tremendous amount of new science on that because it is the core. Of course, yeah. What is the GLP1 set include? So we've had a few different offerings, but we tried to make sort of the subset of our food available throughout the day so you can make sure you're getting the level of nutrients you need. So that could be a number of our meals that you'll have either for lunch or dinner. Some of our smoothies are really perfect companions because you are getting the calories, the protein and the fiber that you need. And so we're just always looking at our portfolio and making sure that the proportions of delivery from a nutrient perspective are there. It's always there. How do you make difficult decisions under pressure? So there's actually a framework that I adopted a few years ago that I absolutely love. It's called the Kinevin Framework. And there's sort of breaks apart decision making through two lenses. Are you living in a predictable world or an unpredictable world? And how repeatable is the challenge you're dealing with? The reason I've loved this is because I watched a few years ago, the pandemic was a great example where, you know, what I felt was like a very high performing operations team. We started to make decisions in a way that felt sort of inconsistent, right? And this framework helped me realize that it was because we went from this highly predictable moment to a highly unpredictable moment. And there's really great ways to help people move from back from the unpredictable to predictable. How do you make small experiments that help guide your confidence in your conviction in the next step? How do you think about things through the lens of is this a two-way door or a one-way door? What does that mean, the two-way door versus one-way door? Two-way door. You can go forward and then you can go back, right? That's a decision that you can reverse. Or sometimes you'll hear people say a reversible decision or an irreversible decision. There are some that you're making that leap. And that's it. And so when you're living in that more unpredictable time, I would say lean more into experimentation. When you're living in more of that predictable, you're really lean into best practices and getting it done. I feel like we, I think there always has to be when you're a founder or CEO of a company, there has to be just the right amount of pressure that is applied to the team at all times for them to see what their growth potential could be. Otherwise, people get like almost like complacent, you know, in a way. I'm a, I'm a, because of my chemistry background. Yeah. I talked about experimentation all the time. All the time. But I think what's interesting, a lot of people talk about experiments and fail fast, I hate that phrase fail fast, who wants to fail. To me, it's about how quickly can you learn, how quickly can you gain the insight you're looking for? And you land on your feet. Exactly. And I think the one other thing I think companies get wrong, particularly when they're early on and challenged and capital constrained, you know, they, you do a lot of experiments, but then you look back and you go, do we even really set the experiment up for success? And then what? Did you make the draw the wrong conclusion? And so what we try to do at the company now is, is really focus on defining the experiment, ensuring we all agree that we are setting it up to succeed, knowing that in two weeks, it might get a little uncomfortable if we're not seeing exactly what to see. Right. But this is an experiment that's going to take eight weeks. We better give it its full eight weeks of potential. Can you give us an example of an experiment like that they you ran as a team? So of late, you know, this sort of subscription versus not subscription is a great example, right? So one consumers, the flexibility that they clearly have been asking for is a nerve-wracking, challenging shift to the team to the business. Exactly. Exactly. How you predict how you forecast, right? I don't know how much food to make, how much food to buy. But we know it's the right thing. And so we're setting up the experiments in a way that allow us to learn to manage the risk appropriately and then to iterate. And when you are taking people off these subscription models from a financial perspective because you touched them on it briefly, how are you guys covering yourself because there can be some months that are great and some months that are not so great? I think that's what I meant by setting up experiments. Right. One that you can manage the risk, right? Okay. You know, there are some things that businesses will have to just make big leaps of faith on. There are other things like this, for example, or new products we may want to offer or new marketing channels we want to enter, where there's ways to carve out the appropriate amount of risk to learn until you're, you know, you're really there. You know, the classic online version of this is A.B. testing, right? To really try to validate. But you can't A.B. test everything. What is your one big marketing? No, no, where you think brands waste their money. Hmm. Great question. I feel like it's necessarily one thing. It's more, you know, getting caught up and just doing something for the sake of doing something. I think kind of first principles rule for me is, you know, is something we're doing in service of the greater mission. Are we actually getting to new consumers? Are we strengthening the relationship with the existing? Right. A good example of this for us, and this is not true for every business, but I'll just give a real live daily harvest example. It's so easy to think about sort of like college campuses as an opportunity. Yeah. And yet we're a frozen brand. Freezer space is limited. Yeah. And so there are certain times we just go, okay, there are audiences. There are interested parties, but is that really going to be truly perfect fit for us? Just me. If you're out there at college, we've got to, you know, educate education discount for you. I'm not telling you not to eat daily harvest, but I recognize that's probably not the best place for us to focus our energy. Great. Which place have you seen the most growth? Is it like young millennials? Is it older millennials? Is it Gen Z? Like where have you seen the most market adaptability? Busy moms, right? Yeah. Busy families, busy parents, right? People that understand, look, taking care of their children in particular is the first number one priority. But you can't really do that if you don't take care of yourself. Right. And I think we see so much adoption and so much enthusiasm from parent audiences who are just looking for that easy choice, make one a day, right? Start your day with something healthy like daily harvest and it sets the entire tone for everything else. Anything to see you in the health and wellness space, where do you think longevity is headed? So longevity right now is all the craze, right? People are thinking about longevity. For me, you know, I think about this to the lens both on a personal level, right? How do you leverage the expanded information that's out there both around, you know, things that work for everyone and then more importantly, things that work for you? Right. I feel very strongly, like I said, every day is a data collection opportunity for yourself. Again, the wearables are certainly ways to accelerate that, but how do you just stay really true and in tune to yourself and how you're feeling physically and mentally? I think ultimately what we will see over time is the more sort of grounded and happy we are allowed to be is how the greatest sign for longevity opportunities, but look, life is hard, you know, it's very complicated for people in a world that we live in like today to make it easy. So we just try to inject a little bit of that easiness and joy and every day. I think if you're fueling yourself correctly, you're getting out of quite a month's sleep, but even if you're not getting sleep, but you're fueling yourself correctly, when those daily stress are just show up in your life and you want to squirm under it, when you're fueled correctly, your brain works better, your hormones are firing better, you have a little bit more peace in your life. So how you react to that stress is easier. Look, and stress, I think, is the stress and inflammation, I think are the two greatest impact issues of our time and they're directly connected. And I think on a personal level, I can say there are times where you go through a long window of stress and you don't even realize how resilient your body and your mind are, you're just absorbing it over and over again. We're spying, basically. And when you finally get a chance to release it, you physically feel how much you've been carrying. So much better. And so I think what I've learned in my life is don't overestimate the power of talking to people in and out of the company about what you're dealing with. Correct. I think there's a sense as a leader, like you're not supposed to be stressed, you're not supposed to be challenged, right? Particularly CEOs. It's like this notorious, like admitting your stress would be some sort of sign of weakness. Right. I have found the greatest strength in talking with friends, family, strangers, right in community, just about what's going on. It's amazing what you realize. So you're extroverted. I'm definitely an extrovert, which is a benefit. Which is amazing. You know, that's also for me being a founder and I'm obviously building two businesses. Me just connecting to somebody and I can energetically feed off them and be like, oh, my problem is solved. I feel so much better about this. Right. I've been affected. I got what I needed. Oftentimes just saying it out loud or writing it down. Long cities. You know, there are times I've been an introvert in my life, I would say. I've found that writing is a really powerful way to get to the same outcome I should say. You know, what am I thinking about? How am I navigating that, digesting it in the written form? I'm a really powerful way to get it out there. What do you hate about being a CEO? So listen, I'm telling you, there are things that all hate you. It's just, no, it's true. I don't want to fluff this up. You go first, though. I really don't like managing people. Okay, very, very honest about that. I'm very creative. I'm very solution driven, especially Gen Z's. And I'm very honest about that. I hate managing Gen Z's because I'm an older millennial. I'm 42 years old. So the way we were raised to work and our work ethic is very different. We will grind through anything. We're like a bull in China. We will go through and we're like, okay, we're going to go down this path. I feel like younger Gen Z's especially, they just get overwhelmed really quickly. They're overly sensitive generation. I got something for you. And I'm going to tell you this at the risk of my future book being co-opted by someone. But I've come up with a theory. Okay. And as very similar age as I think, I think you'll probably, hopefully you'll agree. You'll tell me if it's a good theory. I think the sort of moment in time that I evaluate is, did you ever use map quests? Yes. And if you think about that, did you or did you not use map quests? Is the perfect divide from a leadership standpoint? Because. And then people always get mad at me when I say that. And they say, oh, you're being ages or something. No, no, no. No, no. It allows me to understand how I'm going to lead you if you haven't used map quests. Correct. Because now I happen to be this week. I used to use map quests. And I have to think, with Google Maps, I just followed the directions and often make a mistake. And then be like, oh, the Google Maps messed it up. No, I didn't. I did that. So I use that as a reference point to say, I've really honed in on different generations. Different individuals need different things from a leader. Correct. How I coach them, how I manage them is going to be different. Maybe the map quest line isn't perfect, but it's been really useful for me. But it's still really really good direction. I would agree with that because I think, like you just said, with the map quest example, we are just built a little bit tougher. We're like, okay, we will blame ourselves. And we'll say, listen, you must stop. Let's go back to the storyboard. I feel that the non-map quest generation sometimes overly sensitive. I'm like, guys, this is work. It's okay. You're adopting my non-map quest generation. Yeah, I'm like, it's just work. Don't think so personally. And I do think there's a different expectation of what work is and what it represents. Certainly generationally, I think that's been true in other generational changes too. And I mean, I remember growing up earlier in my career and the generation behind me, or before me, I should say, was shocked that you might leave a company every couple of years. So you think about the generation you're changing. How much we shifted. Totally. I think it's also about very intuitive leadership. And men and women, I was to lead very differently, but still, it's about knowing what's your mission, what is your purpose, and some people will stick around for that for three, four, five, 10 years, and some people won't last more than a few months. But you are not meant to shift your mission and your purpose to adopt every single employee who comes to the door. I'm sorry. And more importantly, I think on that note, I would say, as the leader, it's really incredibly valuable to explain that and share what you need to be successful. Correct. One of the things I often get into conversations around, the remote versus not reality since COVID. I know plenty of companies that are only remote, remote first and that works with. Yeah. What I've stopped trying to articulate is what works for daily harvest. Right now, I'm the leader of daily harvest. And what works for me is a particular set. Is different to what might work for some reason. And actually, but sharing that out loud is such a powerful tool as a leader. Again, I go back to this sort of authenticity and transparency for leaders used to mean something else. Right? Like the idea of the CEO sitting in the boardroom, like very difficult. Yeah. I want you to know who I am. I want you to know how I work. I want you to know how I'm successful. Because if you know that, then it's that much easier for you to decide, one, do you want to be here? And two, if you do, how are we going to work together? So I, both the companies that I run, I'm a founder and CEO of, are both all female. Yep. And one of the things I started doing is when I'm hiring women is like, I hate bullshit. I like transparency. I like authenticity. You cannot be scared to come up to me. I'm a strong personality, but I need you to voice your opinion. Yeah. And if you need to push me back, you need to push me back. Because I will respect you more for that. If you're somebody who's a little too shy and too nervous to say your point of view, then this is not the place for you. But being upfront about it. I'm very upfront about it. I was like, that is the energy. And that energy does not work for everybody. And you're either sold into the dream, and you're here to build it with us, and you're here to voice yourself, or you're not. Curiosity and conviction, I go back to it. Yeah. And again, I've, for the last number of years, I have found myself coming back to those two words. Yeah. Because it allows people to really understand what it is you're looking for. And I think that people have this false sense that you work for a founder or CEO. It's like you're just working hard on their behalf. Yeah. No, you're not. You're also growing yourselves. And there was a reason behind it. Yeah. And I think every single job, if I look back at my career, every single job has taught me such an important skill set. Every boss that I've had has taught me something so imperative that worked out later in life. And so when you're working somewhere, and I always encourage the girls, the women who are working for us, be like, there's a lot for you to learn here. This is about your career. It's about your growth as well. Don't just think you're working here for me. You're doing this for yourself. So one of the things I'm maybe most proud of in my eight years of daily harvest is we have a very strong alumni network, amazing. But both formally and informally in that, I stay very connected to a lot of our former team members. Whether they work for me directly or not. And what I have found is the sort of strength of your alumni and how prideful you are of them is a great sign of whether or not you're going to get more people to come and work for you in the future. Some of our biggest fans are XT members. Yeah, employees. And I always say, not every company is going to be able to scale forever in a way that your next job is definitely going to happen inside the company. I've always looked at my ability to get people the next role externally as a huge measure of my success. I look at some of our people who worked for us previously. They've gone on to do amazing things. Or I've introduced, I was like, this might not be a fit. Or you might have hit your cap here. But let me introduce you to another company that you do amazing. And it's fun. There's oftentimes when I've done that and people are sort of shocked at first, because it's like, wait, are you trying to get rid of me? It's like, no, absolutely not. For your own career for what's next? I'm trying to get you the next opportunity. And then we'll figure this out together. But the reality is, I think it always comes back to, are you just being that open with individuals? Right. Of course. When you demand transparency and you demand engagement, you better show up with that yourself. Absolutely. How do you manage burnout? Have you ever had burnout? I've definitely had burnout. OK. I think we all have. What's the founder of that? A CEO of all of it. Yeah, as leadership. I look, travel and true vacation are truly the only thing that I've ever been able to say actually does the solution. So that's not always available. Are you able to tune out on holiday completely or now? So for whatever reason, if I can get to Europe, that's the answer. Is it the old morning to yourself? That's the answer. Well, I think it's also just being, I say Europe. But really, I mean, international travel as a whole is a way to sort of, you almost have to be tuned out because you're in a different culture and a different society entirely. You never fully tune out. You know, right? Yeah. But part of that is how you trust your team. And if your team sees you let go during that time period, they want to show up in more car free too. So I try to remember that. One small thing that I've really tried to sort of come back to is food. So again, not everyone loves to cook. So you don't have to cook. But I come back to, if I'm really feeling it, I'm going to prioritize getting a couple of friends together for dinner, ideally at someone's home. Going out to dinner particularly, I live in New York City, you could go every night to a different restaurant. And still have options, correct. Stopping, being in your apartment or someone else's, your home, and actually sharing food, connecting over stories, laughing, crying, whatever it may be. So easily, itself. Yeah, it's healing in a way that sort of rebounds you quicker than you'd realize from feeling stressed and burnt out. But man, if we come up with the solution to burn out, we've got the next problem. That's a new longevity hack that everybody won't want to buy into. I just want to leave. I've just loved getting to know you as a CEO, because we bring on so many founders and CEOs, but sometimes really diving into what is your strategy? Have you scaled? Have you built your team? It's always interesting to peel back the layer, because then you really understand the company, because you understand the people behind it. If there was one piece of advice you'd leave our guess with, if they want to build something in the help of Wallace Pays, they want to get started, what would that be? So I think there's a lot of space for brands to collaborate. And so one advice I would give is people talk about white space opportunities from innovation, first to or novel this. I think if you really break down what works for health and wellness, it always comes back to the basics. Are you getting the nutrition you need? Are you getting sleep? It's the basics that matter. And so if you have conviction that you've got an idea, a product, a service that's going to be additive for any size audience, go after it. And don't be afraid to partner with people, even if they seem like competitors. Absolutely. My background is operations. And so it's a little bit more true in the ops world, where you go every week you're having conversations. We're like, why are we all solving the same problem? What does it look like to support each other? And share that information. And share. I also think it's so terrible when people want to gatekeep and they don't want to empower somebody else to learn or do better. And I think sharing your challenges or hiccups or things that you've struggled with, and if you can help another founder, help another business, that is just a good energetic exchange. 100%. That's how you give back. You give back and honestly, it's amazing. And mentor other people. What doors unlock when you do that? Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming into my life. Thank you for flying down in, Sharon. You're really interesting background, but also a lot of your great leadership advice. Thanks. Thank you for tuning into Biohack It. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please don't forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a short review. It really helps us reach more listeners just like you. Follow us on Instagram at biohack-it for exclusive content and the latest updates. Remember, your health is in your hand and curiosity heals.