4.12. The Cosmo Episode

What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Nobody Asked Us with Des and Cara presented by Brooks running. Oh, it felt so good to say that. Yeah. Now you're probably confused. Is Chris here? Is he not here? That sounded like so on point. Could Des manage that? It's a mixed bag. You'll have to listen and we'll get into what's going on. But yeah, we were, we took a little break last week and we're back. How are you doing, Cara? You're looking tan. You're looking refreshed. You're looking crystal clear in this Wi-Fi. I gotta say. I know. That was rough. So if we tried to record last week and we had a really good conversation going, but I had the weakest internet and it just kept cutting out and cutting out and cutting out. So we might have an extra long show today. Who knows? But I'm doing great. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was a good conversation and we pulled out all the stops truthfully. Like, we really tried to power through. Chris wasn't there to shut us down earlier because I think he would have been like, I'm just saying it guys. Like, let's just try again later. But we turned off cameras. We tinkered with audio. We didn't tinker with audio. We just turned off the cameras. We were texting back and forth because I couldn't see you. Are you frozen? Are you there? What's going on? It was a bummer because we had a good conversation going, but it was like, yeah, this is, it was going to take so, like Chris would have quit. It would have taken so long to patch all that together. And it was like, this isn't just not worth it. We could have done micro episodes and dropped one every hour just to pad the stats. We could have pulled the city. Pad the stats. Pad those stats. Download, download, download. But no, we're not like that. We just want a good episode for everyone to hear. So this, this one, well, you know what's funny is whenever I think it's going to be long, it's not. Whenever I think it's going to be short, it's long, but I feel like today is going to be a little bit long. That's loaded. Don't go in with expectations. Just feel the vibes. Okay, we'll feel the vibes. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. So we definitely need to recap. We need to go back to the beginning of time. We're going to talk about Colt. It's the beginning of our time. What were you up to? We were, we had a really great conversation about his race in Boston. And I thought that that, like that to me stood out just because there was some dynamics in how we raced, what he was in, the decision making around that. And then just kind of give us the recap and then his, his experience and how he felt about it. If you haven't seen the clip on your social, really cool to watch that kind of cut of the race. And I mean, my initial take was he kicked ass, but give us the breakdown. Well, the breakdown was, he was very excited. We were all excited. I think I had told you before Adam and I had some hesitation about putting him in a national championship so young, but he kind of wore us down. He wanted that backpack and also, and also it actually seemed like when we really thought about it, okay, this is a freshman race. He's going to go, he's going to see it. He'll see what the warm up experience is like. What's it like to line up with these really good kids. And then maybe when he's a junior or senior, he'll have that experience in his back pocket if he goes back. So I'm super glad we did it. They didn't post the heat sheets until the night before, probably on purpose so that people couldn't complain. The heat sheets came out and he was in the third of fourth heats and each he got a little faster. And he was disappointed. He wanted to be in the fastest heat. And I did have a moment of like, I could reach out to the meat director. I know he's in really good shape. I know he could definitely be in the top 10. But then I was like, you know what? No, we're not going to do that. And so Adam and I were like, we're not going to do that. And you're going to go in there and you're going to prove that you should have been in the faster heat and you're going to go out there and you're going to run as hard as you can. And you know, whatever happens, happens. So he, it was kind of interesting. They had pace lights and then they would have the pace light at whatever the fastest time was so far. So like the first heat was one in like 428 or 429. So the pace lights were at 428 or 429. And then the second heat, it might not have been as fast as the first heat. So I just thought that was kind of cool because I'm like, why are there pace lights? And what are they said at? You know, and one of the moms was explaining it to me. Shout out to my friend Kate Robbie. She was telling me, I had no idea. But so anyway, so he was in that third heat and we got, we got to the venue and I just like told him, listen, it's a descending order list, like run for every spot, run for every second. You know, you never know how fast the heats are going to go, what's going to be tactical. And then I didn't have a coach's pass. And again, I could have pulled my card and got one, but I was like, I'm not going to do that. Do you know who I am? Well, what's funny is when we went to pick up the bib and Adam's coaching pass, the guy was like, Oh my God, I love your podcast with Des. It's my favorite. And he asked for a photo and I almost said, can we get an extra coaching ban? But then I was like, just be a mom. Don't be like that. So I didn't actually see him until he came out to the track. So like, I didn't see him. I didn't go find him after he warmed up. I was like, I'm just going to be a mom and sit here and support him when he comes out. So he came out, he looked great. They lined up, the gun went off and he just got out slow. It was kind of like, what I was like, what is he doing? And they were running fast. Like they were running some 430 pace and I was like, well, maybe he's just like a little overwhelmed. I don't know. And then on the back stretch of the second lap, he was like trying to move out. He was in like eighth or ninth place and he was trying to move out, but he's boxed in. And finally he just kind of shoved his way out and just like moved up and moved into, I don't remember anymore, like third or fourth. And then he just kept moving up the whole way, moving up, moving up. And then at the bell, he just took the lead and just went for it. And I was like, so nervous because I was like, oh my God, I don't want him to get caught now. Right. You put yourself out there. Yeah. But he did great. In the last 50, he put even more distance on the field and he ran a PR, he ran 426.1. And then they watched the fastest heat, which was right after them. And it was definitely faster. I think the win was 418, but sixth place was like 425 high. And I was like, oh man, that would have been, you know, he probably would have run a second or two faster. And when I finally saw him after the race, he was like, mom, top six are all American. Can you believe it? I was seven. That's so me because he usually misses the medals by like one or two spots, but he was super happy. And he did a little cool down. And then we went back to the hotel and we put up the runner space video on the big screen and watched it and talked about it. And he was so happy. He did so great and I was super happy for him. And he proved he deserved to be in the faster heat, which was like he earned that, you know, without me being like, I know a thing or two about running. Right. Yeah. I think, well, I think winning super important too. We talked about it a little last time, but that like just learning that skill and building that confidence goes a long way. And there's almost not more value, but a different value from doing that and knowing how to put people away that then you take it next year or into your next race. And you're like, I know how to win. I know when to make my move, where if you're like, get out too hard in the other heat or, you know, you're fading late, it just mentally hits you a little bit different. So that's sounds like he got a lot out of that. He learned so much. Like he was like, I learned so much, you know, in this one little one mile, he learned how to not panic when you're boxed in. He learned how to find the space and move out. He learned how to wait till he knew he was, he knew he had it to burst. Like, and you know, he's in high school, so he doesn't win races anymore. So that was like super exciting to, to win a race. So it was just an awesome experience and he learned so much from it. So it was great. That's cool. Yeah. And then, and then the gouchers packed up and went on vacation without internet. How was that? It was so great. It was so great. So like, I, we talked about this a little bit before, like, I wasn't, didn't come from a family that went on spring break trips or anything like that. And then Adam and I never went on any vacations because we were always training. And so if we did do a vacation, it would be like, anytime we had time off, we went to either Colorado or Minnesota to visit our families. And then if I had like a work trip, maybe we would add a day. So like when Colt was little, I had a work trip in LA and we added a day so he could go to Disney World, or Disneyland. But we like, we went on one vacation after I ran the 2008 New York City Marathon. That was the first vacation we ever went on. And we went to Punta Minta in Mexico and it was amazing. And we were like trying to do the money conversion in our head to see if we could like stay another day or two. But we had never been on a vacation like, I mean, obviously we went on a honeymoon, but we had to cut that short because Adam got sick anyway. It's always something, right? It's always something. Yeah. And so in 2019, I cashed out, we live in Colorado now, it's a United Hub. So in 2019, I cashed out all my Delta miles. And we got break my heart for no money. We got first class flights to Maui. We went to this resort called Grand Wilea for four nights. That's it four nights. And we had the best time during cold spring break. And that like sparked in us like, we can afford to do this. We should be doing this. Like, it was just so magical. And then, of course, 2020 happened and COVID, but we've been doing it ever since. And so like, I don't work while I'm there. The only thing I was willing to do was the pod with you. You know, I couldn't call world indoor. And I just told NBC, listen, I always, I'm working all the time year round, even in the summer when my son's out of school, like I'm working and like, I have to this one week out of the year is preserved. Yeah. And it was amazing. We went with one of my good high school friends, Stephanie Vandover and her family. We rented a house in St. Martin. We're all just big time beach people. So we just would find different beaches every day and stay at the beach. And I don't know. It's like, I can't even think of anything that we did that was. Yeah. No, no, like this was the high, like this was the thing. It was just like as a block. This is vacation. Yeah. It's just like as refreshing. Relaxing. I read two books while I was there. We went to five different beaches. We spent so much time in the water. We had delicious food. I mean, we went out to dinner every night and the food was sensational. I haven't had a Cosmo in like probably like 20 years. I had a Cosmo almost every night I was there. Like, I don't know. It was just so relaxing and great. April Spritz. Yeah, your name. Are we loving them? That's step choice. Okay. All right. I'm like a beer or a Cosmo that those are my two orders. Where does the Cosmo come from? I feel like this is a sex in the city. Oh, you know, it is latched on. You know, it is. So I'm a huge sex in the city person. I hated the movies, but I loved the show. Yeah. Movies were terrible. I have all of the movies on DVD because I'm battled or all the shows on the HHS. Yes. And so I watched them all live on HBO and they came out and then I have all the DVDs and like one summer right before I moved to Oregon, my friend Anna Paffle and I watched every single episode like she would work and then she'd come back and we would just watch them. Anyway, I love this show. Whenever I'm like sad or sick or whatever, I'll just like watch it. Yeah. It's like a warm hug. Like our friends is for a lot of people. Mush potatoes. And you know, everybody relates to their character and of course I love, I was a Carrie. I don't know why I'm actually more of a Charlotte, but that's fine. And she always ordered a Cosmo and I didn't even know what a Cosmo it tasted like. And then I ordered one and then eventually Adam got me like pink Cosmo glasses and then you know, like life went on and I don't actually go out and I don't actually order Fufu drinks anywhere. And so I haven't had one in prop seriously, probably like 20 or well, maybe like 15 years. Okay. But we were just sitting, we were sitting down and like, I'm like, nothing sounds good. And I'm like a Cosmo. And then the same thing that you just said, Fritz, my friend's husband was like, is this a Carrie Bradshaw thing? I'm like, yes, it is. Bet your ass it is, bro. You know it is. I love me some Carrie Bradshaw. And yeah, I love that show so much. Ryan and I, we can't remember what we finished watching, but it like then pointed us to the show girls. Do you remember that one? Oh yeah, that was like a yesh version of Sex with the Sea. Yeah. That was not for our generation. Didn't love that. We watched like one or two and he was like, Yeah, that was me too. And then I was like, no, you have to like, you have to watch Sex with the City because this is actually like something he wanted to get into it. He's like, I kind of like this sort of era. So it's like, you need to watch Sex with the City because that's more your vibe, our age. So then he ended up getting pretty into that. So every now and then like, there's a Carrie, Mr. Big mean that'll pop up and I'll send it to him. Oh, that's so great. He like gets so happy because he gets it now. Yeah. Oh, God, I love that show. And I did like that. And just like that, they had like three or four seasons in the last two years. The last season, meh. But the first few seasons I thought were like entertaining at least, but nothing's as good as the original. I mean, it was just so. I saw them filming that when I was in New York. I had to go around the block. Really? Because they were doing scenes. Filming just like this? Or just like that? What's going on? Like, why do I have to walk around the block for like this? It was a tiny little set, but you had to go all the way out of the way. And they're like, oh, we're filming, it's like the Sex and the City spin off. And I was like, okay, well, now I have to watch it so I can find this scene. Right. And you're okay with walking around. Yeah, you're like, fine, I can do it. But I know people are going to say the show's unrealistic. I know that. Of course. I know it's unrealistic. Carrie lived in that apartment, had all those clothes and all those shoes. She barely wrote and all of the things were so unrealistic, but that's half the fun. You know? Yeah. And that got me wondering, do we really need podcasts for everyone? Was it time to divorce the podcast? It made me wonder. Yeah. It deposed it as a question or it's like not true to the show. Yes, we still joke about the Post-it note. We always tell Colt, you can't break up over text. That's the equivalent of breaking up over a Post-it note, you know? Yeah. I love that show. So yeah, totally. That's where my cousin and thing came from. But, um, sorry, I took us on a tangent, but I couldn't let that go. I would say if anyone's thinking about going to St. Martin, you should. We are beach people. We can sit on the beach all day. The most beautiful beaches I have ever seen. The food, I mean, we would basically just have breakfast at our house and even pack snacks for lunch, but the food was delicious. Like bakeries all over, because it's half French, half Dutch. Just, I don't know, amazing, super great vacation. I would recommend it highly. Not a lot of running happened. Yeah. So Colt took a little time off, right? Yeah. He took a little time off. So basically, you know, like, I know that to like keep the momentum and all the stuff, like he should be training, but it's also like he's so young and I don't want him, I want him to be able to enjoy life. And maybe when he's a junior or senior, he'll want to run on spring break, but he was swimming all day long. He's doing all this stuff. He did go for a couple runs. It was super, super hilly. And he like came back and just like immediately gotten the little dipping pool. And, but it was sort of like, just, he just did it to like remind his body to run, but it was like, I wasn't going to rag on him and be like, Hey, if you want to qualify for state, you're going to have to, yeah, it was just sort of like, he's, he ran this winter. He ran all of February. Like he's never done that before. He's like, he deserves this downtime. And like, I think we talked about this before, but like, I used to be, and I'm sure you were too, like, I couldn't ever truly relax. Like, I'm like, I have, I remember we went for my sister, my sister in law, when she turned 40, we went to Mexico. And I got up every day at 545 and worked out and tried to make it back before everyone was going to breakfast as they slept in and everything. And I, I just don't want him to feel like he has to do that. Cause guess he's not a professional. Right. He's not. He's a freshman. You know? Yeah. So it was just like, I don't, Adam and I were like, we don't want him to worry about it. We don't want him to feel bad about it. And he needs to just be a kid cause he's a kid. Right. Yeah. I think that's so interesting. I think it's really good perspective. I always felt like that, like I try to explain that to people as a student athlete when you go to school and they're like, oh, you weren't very good in college. I was like, well, you're right. I was like, I wasn't certainly what I, what I could have done. I probably didn't accomplish, but I also really felt like it was important to be a student athlete because you have four to five years to have that experience and that's it. You don't get to redo it. And also I'm getting paid. Right. Like I'm getting a scholarship as a student athlete. So I'm going to do them both. You know, I mean, but I, we always kind of go back to this and I don't want to poo poo the whole thing, but just food for thought is how NIL starts to impact that. And you see these like young, young kids and it's like, well, you, you are a professional. You are getting paid. Like, do you feel guilty for skipping runs? Do you feel guilty for going on vacation? In that such an interesting thing, particularly with people who have freshmen to, you know, senior and high school, where mom and dad are collecting the check, doing deals and then also like, hey, you need to go get that run in. That gets really, really tricky. And that's always like, just sits on my mind. So it's refreshing to hear a good story from you where it's like, we don't care. Yeah. Well, I think it's like very intentional on our end and running was different when we were younger. There was like, there was no social media. There was no way. I mean, I got the Harrier magazine, which was like once a month and I would find out what people had done over a month before. And then my stepdad used to get during track season USA today, because once a week they'd post the top times in the country and I actually hated it. He'd like be reading it to me while I'd be eating my honey nut Cheerios and I'd be like, I don't like, great, I'm a minute slower in the 3200 than the girls in California, you know. But we just didn't have that comparison. And so the game has changed so much and it's just really intentional. And I think like also with Adam and I being who we are, there is this pressure on Colt, whether we're putting it on him or not. I think I mentioned to you that we went back to the hotel and we watched his race and it was called by one of the people calling it was Mark Davis, who had a great career and he briefly trained with Adam for a little bit and he did a great job. But he was like, oh, you know, oh, look at that name Colton Goucher. I know his parents and I ran with his dad. And then like they kind of talked, he kind of talked about Colt the whole time and I'm not like mad at him. Like he's calling literally a thousand races and it's like, great, here's something I can fill the time with. But Colt afterward was like, is that how my whole running career is going to be just talking about you and dad? And so I were really aware, but I have to say like, I'm, I'm, I feel this way because I went through it. I was, I was good in high school and I won national titles in college and I know that it was my own and it was protected and I never felt pressure from my parents to put in a certain mileage or anything like that. And the game has changed and with Strava and the ability for the kids to see each other's training, it's like Colt's like, well, should I be running 50 miles a week? I'm like, no, absolutely not. Like you're not allowed to run on Sunday. You're not allowed to do any doubles. Like you're, you're a freshman. And so maybe we're, maybe in some ways we're holding him back. You know, like he really wants to qualify for state. He's going to have to run around 420 to do that up at altitude. It's probably not going to happen. And maybe if I made him run over spring break and Adam had him out doing workouts, it would be more likely that it happened. But at what cost, you know, like I got to choose each step when I dedicated more, like I got to choose that, oh, I'm going to, I am going to do this in college and I got to choose, okay, I'm going to run more. And so I, yeah, it's like he'll never not be without attention and pressure, but I want an Adam too. He's, we're a total team on this. It's like we want him to be able to make these choices and these decisions so that if he chooses to keep pursuing it, it's his choice and it's his love of it, not an expectation or yeah, I don't know. It's tricky. Do you think, I mean, Colorado is such a unique place, but do you think he's aware of other kids that are like innocent? Like he's different than most kids, but in Colorado, it's actually probably more common. You have like the cold peppers and the reds and hines and like, there's just all kinds of, you know, really great runners out there with family and now their kids are kind of in that same group coming up. Does he, is he aware of those kids or is that something they chat about? Or is it like, no, I just do my own thing. Yeah, he knows about the other kids. He knows all of them and he's friends with all of them. Yeah. He, he knows that we don't, we hold him back a lot more than they're being held back. I'm not saying that they're overtraining, but he's like, he's different. Also, it's the same age as me and I know he's doing this workout and I'm like, well, I'm not your coach. First of all, Ryan Rue is and your dad holds the watch, but we're not going to let you do that. And neither is Ryan because you're a freshman, you know? And so, I think he is, he knows all those kids are all super friendly to each other. And so it isn't as crazy here, but I think like being at New Balance, then hearing them talk about him, it was a little bit like, oh, you know, and I don't think, I don't want to put them down because I totally get it, like you're calling them milling races and it's an interesting fact. So it's nothing like that. But I think it was also eye-opening to cult of like, I want to be my own person. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I think there's that, but I also wonder too, like when you're super young and mom and dad did something cool, you're like, whatever, it's mom and dad. But then you hear about it all the time and you're like, oh, that was actually mega. It's not just mom and dad, like I thought everything they did was cool. It's like, that was huge, you know? Maybe it's another kind of eye-opening thing where he's realizing how good you guys were. Yeah, maybe. Two things. I mean, he watched this fall, he watched Adam Wynn-Fullacher, which is like a high school thing. But he had seen that before and didn't care. But then when he watched it this fall, like their team watched it and he was like really into it. And my mother-in-law had all of these racing t-shirts of Adams throughout the years. We don't know how she got them, but she brought over this garbage bag full of t-shirts, like from Sydney and like an old CU shirt that had Adam on it. And she was like, I'm going to like, do you want these? And Cole gave a bunch of them out to his teammates, but ended up keeping some like he wears this Sydney 2000 shirt all the time. So it's been interesting watching him realize like, yeah, I think he is starting to see that. But I think it's just a tricky balance. And I know that the Culpeppers have talked about this balance, or at least I've talked about it with Shane a little bit. I haven't talked to Nathan about it really, but it's a tricky balance of like, we all got our own journey. You know, no one in my family ran. My grandpa ran as just a runner, not a racer. And Adams family, nobody ran. And we got to do our own thing. And there's benefits to being my kid or Adam's kid. Like he has great Brooks gear, right? And he gets to go to cool meats and he gets to, he gets to go to Brooks PR and see what the best kids are doing. He gets to go to Miller Rose. So there's a lot of benefit to being having us as parents, but it also, I just don't want him to feel like there's this expectation that he has to live up to something. And I think that's kind of a constant battle. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. And it's always cool to hear his racing stories and also just like how you guys navigate that. And I'm sure it's not always perfect, but I think not you being open with it is cool for our listeners. And it's just such a unique spot to be in. And I think you're doing a good job from my perspective. I don't know. Thanks. We're doing our best. And he's his own person. And I'm like, could not be more proud of how he ran there. Not because he won his heat, but just he just ran so great. And I'm so happy that he was happy with it, you know? Yeah. Okay. Enough about the amazing beaches in St. Martin. I can't recommend it enough. And my child, who I'm obsessed with, I want to know what's been going on with you because it looks like you've been having some good VO2 max testing. You ran a half again. Once again, under the radar. When's the last time you did a VO2 max test? Oh, I haven't done one since probably 2003. Yeah. I mean, I got to think mine was like high school. Okay. I was not prepared for that. But yeah, I was out in Oakland for the Oakland half marathon. And some stuff I did with goo at the HQ there, being one of their athlete ambassadors has been great. Obviously getting to work with Magda, who if you don't know, go look her up. She's incredible. It made the 2008 Olympic team and then had an awesome trail career, but she's a good friend. So yeah, we had, I got the itinerary a couple of days before. I knew there was going to be testing, but VO2 max was on there and I was like, oh, fuck. I would actually be super nervous to take a VO2 max test. I mean, like for people who don't know, and a lot of people are into this and know, but it's, I mean, it's to failure, right? So you do, it was a protocol was, I think we did 20 minute warm up, did a couple of strides in there. And then you start, I was like 550 for marathon pace and they're like six minutes. Okay, that works for me. And then I think you are bumped up, I don't know, maybe a couple of miles per hour every minute. So then eventually you get up to your marathon pace or whatever the pace you picked is. So six, six minute pace and then every minute there after you just go up a percent incline. So yeah, it's a short test, but basically you go and tell your like, I'm about to fall off the back. And what's interesting is that you max out and then it starts to come down, but you're supposed to keep running till failure. If you can get there, yeah. In your head, you're like, no, I have to keep, you know what I mean? It's like, I'm ruining the test if I don't keep going. Yeah, I hate these tests. I'm just going to quick interrupt you. I had one in high school and at the Olympic Training Center in Lake Placid and they were like super excited about it, trying to convince me to ski. Obviously that didn't work out. And then I had four or five at the beginning of my career and every time I'd have so much anxiety leading into it. And then I'm on the treadmill and I'm like, I couldn't possibly be down now. Could I, could I, you know what I mean? Like I'm like a total mental battle. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, it's not that hard. I should be fine. I keep pushing. Like I know I'm like quitting too early as I'm watching my heart rate just like way higher than it should be. I don't think I've hit that high in a long ass time. I'm going to explode. It's ridiculous. I know. No, even before I started, I was like, well, if I'm just being a sissy, like make me do another minute at least. Like don't let me quit before you have what you need. And she was like, just run. Right. But you're like, I can do this for 20 minutes. And then it's like three minutes in, you're like, I don't know. Like I'm dying. Right. And I hate running on treadmills. I just hate running on treadmills. So I'm like, I'm going to fall off. I'm going to crack my face open. I didn't, it was fine. They got the data they needed. So you ran long enough. You made it long enough. I don't know. I looked at the chart. I think I could have gone a little bit longer, but what are you going to do? And then I watched Magda do hers and she used a different protocol that just started at 3%. And I think she just went up 3% like every minute. And I was like, she's fucking crazy. She's just like going straight up the wall. She won the Leadville 100. So she's pretty good. Western States, Leadville, yeah, MBS. Yeah, it was awesome watching her do it as well. And so I'm sure people want the results. I don't know. I don't know if I should tell them or not. I think people are weird about results like that because it's only one piece of the puzzle. Like you could have the best VO2 max in the world, but like you might have other things that hold you back, right? Or you could have like the highest, in like bloodwork, you could be super talented with your hemoglobin and your hematocrit. But like you, so it's like... It's a bigger picture. It's like seeing one little spec of the puzzle and being like, oh, look, it's a dolphin. You're like, no. Right. So basically I'm saying if you want to share, you should, but don't feel like you have to because people will definitely read into it. Yeah. I mean, for comparison's sake, it's silly, again, like what you just said. It was 66.5, which I thought was good. I was actually pretty happy with that for my age. But yeah, does VO2 max go down as you get older? I guess it probably does. I think it's like, I want to say it's like 10% every decade. Oh, okay. Allegedly. Yeah. It was fine. I don't think it's a tool that necessarily helps me moving forward. It's just good information. And it's nice to know that I still have some capacity for distance running. And but yeah, we moved out of the lab and then did some heat stuff that was way more applicable to getting ready for MDS, which was also not very fun. And the testing's fun. The photos always look cool. Yeah. So that we just put on a bunch of layers and ran for 45 minutes. And it was pretty warm out in Oakland and in the Bay Area. So it was like, I want to say it was high 80s on Friday. And we were wearing, you know, just like heavy layers, had the core monitor sensor thing to make sure it wasn't out of control, but we were pushing the threshold pretty high. So 45 minutes of just easy jogging, did sweat rate testing, pretty heat adapted, won't need any extra sodium. And then threw on the mask and ran for like 10 minutes on the beach. So in the sand, already heated, like warmed up and basically overheat, not overheating, but right kind of in that threshold. And then I think there is like some sort of like utilization of carbs versus, I don't know what other, I have the results. But basically it's like how they're going to prepare our food and like how we might be burning fuel differently with the heat and the sand and the stress of all that stuff. So there was a tiny adjustment to my food that they're preparing. That's cool. One extra like gram of carbs or something. This is like my, but you're like, actually this stuff will make a huge difference. It'll make a huge difference. Balancing like, you know, how much do you want to carry weight wise versus how much do you need to get through? So yeah, the team at goo is just, they're super smart. And it was cool to just have a brand be like, Hey, let's give you, let's use our resources to give you information that's going to make you better. It doesn't impact anything they make or sell. It's just like, we want you to have an awesome time and get the most out of yourself at MDS. So let's use our lab resources to help you get better. So hat tip to goo. That was really fun in a weird way. That's going to be something that's on my mind a lot in the next couple of weeks. Like this was miserable, but when I was done, it was fun. Right. And then you learned stuff that you can apply, right? Like your nutrition will be more dialed, stuff will be more dialed. And so yeah, testing is always like, it gives me so much anxiety. I think I had testing right before the 2016 Olympic trials, but I don't think we did a VO2 max test, but I was doing testing about like how I burn stuff. And I can't remember anything from it, except for that I burn fat super efficiently. So I'm like, well, that makes sense. Cause I eat a ton of fat in my diet. Ton of nuts and avocados and eggs and all sorts of stuff and cheese. I was like, so that makes sense. But yeah, I even I had anxiety for that. And I knew I was in a like great shape. And I'm just going like you to get information to help myself. Yeah. But I'm like, I don't know. I don't want to appear like a slob. I don't know what they're going to say. It's so stressful. Yeah. Well, I will use that money's there for a little quick pivot here, because one of the things that we both are is meat eaters. And if you're a vegetarian, this sponsor is not for you. If you're a pescatarian, keep listening. We are teamed up for the next couple of episodes with butcher box for over a decade. Butcher boxes led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic free, hormone free, and independently verified. Because when it comes to fueling your body, quality isn't extra. It's everything. whole protein means better support for strength metabolism. And that steady all day energy or all chasing. So yeah, I'm stoked to have them on as a partner. We got a huge box of steaks. We went all beef, red meat and have been going through that. And I know you had a delivery, I think it was right when you got back. So I hope you've been able to dig into that. I think it's coming like Thursday. Okay. We are getting chicken, steak, and salmon. So I'm excited. We're getting a little bit of everything. The seafood's always interesting. I like sleep on that. But the salmon, there's shrimp in there. They have a great selection. And honestly, it's just nice to have it stocked in the freezer for, you know, pull it out during the day. Or if you're not planning ahead, it's like, Oh yeah, I'm stocked up because I have the butcher box order. Yeah, I can't wait. I'm not gonna lie. Like I said this on the, I think the last episode that we talked about this, I am a big meat eater. I love meat. Again, I apologize to any vegetarians or vegans, but protein baby. Yeah, I love these some protein. So I am super excited for it to get here and to have it start coming regularly. And it's gonna be awesome. So and I'm just excited that they're supporting us. It's really cool. Absolutely. And there are like spices and tots and fries on there as well. If you're looking for a little something to add, I was trying to think if there was more sides or not. And so I dug through, there's so many options. Did spot those for a little bit of starch on the side and seasonings are always great. But as an exclusive offer, listeners can get their choice between chicken breast or topster line for a year or ground beef for life plus $20 off when you go to butcherbox.com slash nobody use all lowercase nobody. That's right. Your choice of chicken breast or topster line for a year or ground beef for life plus $20 off your first box in free shipping. Always. Thanks for listening to this somewhat red ad. I don't know if you could tell I was reading that because it sounded like well, it's a lot of information made that up. But I like that you said that's right because when I first read it, I was like, wait, they're getting chicken breast or sirloin for a year? Like add it in for being our listener? That's crazy. Yeah. It's just a good deal. It is. And thank you for supporting the pod. If you didn't get the website, head to the show notes and you can click the link right in there. But we appreciate put your box. We appreciate our listeners for just supporting it and allowing us to keep at this pod. So that's that moving on. Before we move on to all of the running goss or results or whatever we want to talk about. Yeah. I want to know about your half. Oh, jumped in another half. I did. It was fun. I wanted to go longer on the day I was out there. So I figured I would do that and then hop on the plane afterwards. I looked at past results and I was like 120 will win this thing. I'm going to go cruise around and then like five miles in, there's a woman clipping my heels and I was like, motherfucker, I'm like for real. Like I don't want to race. So I threw in a big mile around seven and ran like pretty hard for a couple of miles. And then I looked around at my left shoulder on a corner and I was like, fuck, she's still right there. And I was totally cooked. So I ran like 550s in. But it was super fun. The course is insane. Anybody getting ready for Boston, go run the Oakland half. Like you can run some hard hills, exaggerated hills. Beat your legs up on the downhill. Like it's not even fun downhill running. I was like, oh, I feel like wobbly. Like I might tumble down this thing. But yeah, it was fun until it wasn't fun. The last couple of miles, I was like, I'm ready to be done. Then nice little long cool down home and then a flight home. I got home at like two in the morning. I'm exhausted. Yeah. Wait, when did you fly back on Sunday? Yesterday? Yeah, I went to LA, a flight to LA and then flew from LA to back to Orlando. So I got in around, it was a little delay, got in around two in the morning. I looked at my core roast today. And it said I was, I knew CJ Albertson looked at his watch before World Championships and it said 1% in terms of his like capacity to do anything to secure night. Get checked. Mine today was at 4%. So CJ, you got me beat, but I did a number. You're going to bed early tonight. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I did a little nap earlier. I'm back up to 12%. But I got up normal time. I was like, I would love to just get back on the schedule. I got up at 7.30 and then ran 16 this morning. So that'll do a number. But I was like, no second run. I'll run the 16 now. So yeah, good for you. After a long weekend of testing and running a half and geez, good job. I'm making it hard and through. Okay. Well, now, should we move on? There's been so much running since we talked. And so there was a lot two weekends ago that we were going to talk about and then there was a lot this past weekend. So should we go in chronological order and go back a couple weeks? Yeah, let's start from a little bit back. But let's just do what we feel like is the most fun because I feel like that's where we thrive with our conversation instead of being like, well, people want us to talk about X. So let's try. I do think there's just like a few things we need to hit on. I don't think we need to go through every single detail of every single event. But well, first we could just start with NCAA championships because there was kind of news in D1 and in D3. So the happy news that I thought anyway was that Jane Heddingren won two titles. She won the 3000 title and the 5000 title and she's only a freshman and I can't imagine we're going to see her a second year. But she was second out. She was second in cross at the National Championship and to was it to Kamala Koski or no or Doris Lemongole? Yes, but she won here in both races. And it I don't know. It's surprising. Like just crazy, not pressure, but expectation. So much expectation. And you kind of don't think it's going to happen. It's like, oh, maybe she's the one. Oh, maybe. And she delivered like it was no thing. Right. And I'm never going to get over how relaxed she looks when she runs. You would never know how fast she's running. Her face is perfectly calm. Her stride is I think it's so big because she's a little taller and it's like you would never know. Like if you showed her, if I saw her running at 5000, I'm like, oh, she's so relaxed. She's probably running like 16 minute pace. No, she's running like 14 58 pace. You know, it's just crazy. Do you think she's been pushed yet? Like, do you think these races really like made her go to the well or do you think we are just seeing her kind of float still? I mean, she ran the Milrose 3000 and I believe she ran under the existing collegiate record, but there was another collegiate that beat her. I think it was Pamela Koski, but please don't quote me on that because I'm tired. But the NCAA is she just looked not challenged. No. I mean, she ran away. I can't remember was 3000 or 5000, but she ran away in the last lap like it was nothing. Right. Again, fighting your time. And yeah, yeah. So I don't know. I think she's exciting. She's gonna be exciting when to follow. And I'm glad that she got those titles off. Like, there was so much pressure on her outside pressure and cross. So it was cool to see her just like get those titles and get that like first title done. Yeah. Do you think cross not winning will hang over her head at all in terms of signing professionally? And I mean, I guess you could do the NIL route potentially. Do you think cross impacts that at all? Or is it like it's not that important? I think that cross is important because it's a pressure cooker situation and there's only one winner and everyone's in the same race. However, I think that she wins an outdoor title. It becomes a moot point. Like, yeah, fair. You know, like, and it's not like she was 50th or 60th. She was second. You know, but I do think that and I don't know how much is changing. But back when I was racing, like you really needed that cross title. Right. You needed it. It was really important. And I was like second is it's like at the Olympics, they say the silver medalists are more unhappy than the bronze medalists because silver is like, you were right there. Could have been what could have been her bronze. You're like, yeah, I got a medal. Yes, totally. So I wonder if that will be a thing that weighs or if it's like whatever it's cross country and I took care of business on the track in trucks in the Olympics. So yeah, that's actually what I need to be working on. I wonder if she would go pro this year after the track season or after cross country. I can't imagine she's going to go two full years. There's a world championship next year. She has a great chance of making that team and that would be practice for the Olympic games. But she could technically run the cross season because that's not competing with anything and then go pro. I don't know. Yeah. I'm like talking about how everyone's putting pressure on her and then I'm like, she needs to go pro because she's so good. Well, I think it's fair. Like they're real conversations. It would be silly to act like they're not important ones or like they're not happening behind the scenes. I can imagine they are. But I also think she's with a group that like she's got a lot of people that she can chat with, bounce ideas off of, see how they navigated careers. There's no shortage of talent professional and collegiate in the BYU sphere. Right. Like she could go pro and nothing changes. Right. Same coach, same training partners, same everything. Well, she has to sign with Nike, but yes. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Well, I think Nike locked down till jeet. They know what they're doing. None of our athletes want to leave her. Right. It's a smart move by them. I hope they're paying her. I'm sure. She's worth it. She is worth it. Absolutely. All right. Well, that was exciting. The men's side, the big DQ. Do you want to talk about it? Oh, yeah. I have to have the big DQ. Okay. I forgot we were going to talk about this. Yeah. So the big DQ on the men's side. We put the Q on that. What are we even talking about? So the men's 3000, there was some Jocelyn that went down and Haptin Samuel ended up winning, but he ended up getting disqualified. But there was some talk that Marco Langan from Villanova maybe caused it, but I went back and watched it and it's hard to tell. They're just making moves and he's trying to move on the outside quickly and Samuel's kind of putting his arm out to protect his position. I don't know. Did you watch it? I just pulled it up right now. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, racing and particularly on indoors, it's going to get physical. I do think there might have been like a, are you pushing someone back? Then, okay, now we're starting to get into impeding. But yeah, I mean, I think those are all like, could go either way. Try to put yourself in a better position next time. Yeah. Well, Marco ended up fading. I don't know. He was like third or fourth. Yeah. He finished fourth, I think. And it obviously paused a lot of his momentum, slowed a lot of his momentum, but he finished a fair amount back. I don't know. I guess if you get impeded like that or you feel like you were, you know, lose that momentum, it's hard to have any shot. But yeah. I thought his interviews were interesting. He was like, that we're racing. Like stuff's going to happen. Like I'm doing everything I can to win. They're doing everything they can. He didn't seem to me to be like blaming anyone. No, I don't think so. I mean, he'd faded pretty hard. I think he almost like I'm watching it out of the corner of my eye here. It looked like he got around and he kind of created that space, but he was super wide. And I think that that cost him. It was such a big burst and then it just didn't, like it didn't, he didn't have it, didn't happen. I think he probably kind of knew that. And also it's like, what am I going to do? Sit here and wine about it? Like let's just move on to the next thing. So I respect his kind of conversation around it afterwards. It's like what I was talking about. Well, he's an interesting character because he's been getting a lot of media attention and social media attention because he's kind of brash. And he's like, I'm going to, I'm going to leave a trail of blood on the track. I'm going to do what I have to do to win. And we've had like kind of characters like this in the pro field, kind of the last few years, especially in the men's 1500 side. And then you sent me an interview with him and I was like, am I, am I a fan now? Do you want to tell us about that interview you said? I don't remember. I can't even remember what it was. He was talking about how his dad abandoned him when he was little. And there's like a hurt there when your dad doesn't want to be a part of your life. And for the rest of your life, you're kind of insecure and you're wondering what your value is and how that's really driven him and how it's really driven him to excellence on his, and also driven him to be like just wanting to be something. And I can't imagine what that's like, like just wanting to show you have worth because you have this like hurtness from feeling like you aren't. And I was like, oh my God, like I, I really can see that. And you know, I think we've seen that a little bit with the act of Ingebrigtsen and his relationship with his father. And then I was like, well, no, like I understand, like sometimes when these athletes are really brash and harsh, you're like, come on, dude, bro. Yeah. But then you like find out they are human and a lot of them are kind of in not injured, but like they've been hurt. There's a hurt there. Yeah. So there's this like wall they build and almost this personas, they can't get hurt. Yeah. So yeah, you sent me that. And I was like, am I, am I a Marco fan? No, like I really want him to win a title now. I love it. We've tipped the scales. I think he's a really interesting character. I think he makes racing, races he's in really exciting. He's worth following. And I think it's like a lot of these guys love them or hate them. You're thinking about them. And that's what gets people to tune in. So I'll be a fan. I could be a fan. Yeah. You're for it. And I will say that Colin Salmon ended up winning that race in 741-66. So yeah, that Habtom was dequeued and everyone bumped up a spot. So bummer for him. But Samuel Habtom has a number of titles already. So oh yeah, yeah, kind of takes the sting off a little bit. I think. Yeah, who knows? That sucks. But he's a very good and accomplished runner. Sure. Okay. I'm going to move to the D3 Nationals. And talk about Seth Clevenger. Have you heard about this game? Yes. So he was at Iowa State in last fall. He ran the Nutty Comb in the B race and ran a huge personal best. And then shortly after that was essentially suspended from the team. And supposedly, according to his teammates, he tried to give some of his teammates peptides that are banned. I wrote it down. It was BPC 157. I don't know anything about peptides. The 157. I'm not going to act like I know. But I know the ban. And supposedly he admitted to his coaches, but he's now denies all that, even though he got suspended from the team. And he has a teammate who said he tried to give it to him. He has, you know, I don't know. Crazy improvement since then. He went D3. He's running D3 now. And he wins the D3 5000 by over like 30 seconds, I think. And they get on the podium and they all get their awards and then they all get off the podium and walk away and do a different podium without him. Right. So they're handing it to the winner. And all the other second through a through whatever, just walk off as he's getting his award. Yeah. Just leave him there kind of alone. Yeah. And so the protest is we know this guy, well, we believe this guy did something illegal and against the rules. And yet here he is, you know, running extremely fast, breaking the, he broke the meat record, becoming a national champion. And we, we believe he's cheating. And that's it. Right. So I don't even know what to talk about here. Well, I'll say great reporting by Jonathan Gull. I think he's the one who kind of put this story together. I would have never heard of it. And then I also, coming off the hat, the women's half marathon thing, the finish in LA. I think there was someone at Barstool was like, running is insane. What the hell is going on? This article is the latest in running chaos. But yeah, I mean, I think it's an important story that I think the individual is one thing, the athletes that are impacted, but also I think the bigger picture is like NCAA, get your shit together. Yeah. That was my takeaway. Like, I don't know what's going on with the NCAA. We've talked about this a number of times, they're doping control, how they work with World Athletics, you saw at water, any of those things, it just seems like the Wild West in the NCAA. And it's super significant to professional running and World Championships, Olympic games, and things like that. And it needs to be controlled in a much different way, in my opinion. Yeah. So, USADA has no jurisdiction over the NCAA. And so, I feel uncomfortable with all of it. I supposedly, some of these former teammates have text messages where he admits this. The NCAA should be doing an investigation. I don't know if I would have gotten off the podium. I'm not begrudging them. I'm almost like, wow, they're way braver than me. Yeah. I mean, I think Jonathan Galtz is a great reporter, but you're also giving a lot of credit to him being 100% correct. Right. And not having a blind spot, or not having made a mistake, which I think he does great reporting, but it's possible that maybe something's missing, maybe an opinion didn't get in, maybe a situation wasn't uncovered completely, whatever. So, yeah, it's one article and you're putting a lot of stock in that. Because if this kid is doing things right, or I don't know, I don't know, it's tough. It's tough, right? I think Jonathan Galtz, his reporting was probably as iron-clad as it can be. I just don't know until there's that positive test or that suspension. I don't know that I would be brave enough to do that because I just don't know for sure. You know what I mean? That's, that's this part of the anti-doping. You just don't know for sure. You just don't know. Sure. Marathons and at World Championships with people I knew, I know we're not clean, but I don't know. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. How much do you think investigations should be done by Wadi Sada versus tests? Yeah. I think investigation should be where a lot of the money's going and that should be the future because people know how to circumvent the tests. They know how to microdose. They know, I mean, we've known this since Tyler Hamilton wrote his book, you know, and he was on the stand testifying about how they circumvent a test or how they flushed themselves with an IV and the scientists were like, wow, that would work. Hello. Yeah. I feel like the investigative piece, like getting people's laptops, downloading stuff, who are they communicating with? Are they ordering? Like, I feel like that is the future and it should be more involved. I just think it's really expensive and from you Sada's point of view, because I've brought this up, it's like, they don't, they can't, they don't have like a warrant. Right. Like they can't just be like, turn this over. They don't have that ability, but maybe there should be some sort of a change in the structures. They can do that. Well, and then people when, you know, all that investigation is presented and it's like, I mean, there has to be some sort of repercussions. Right. You know what I mean? Like, all of this stuff is like, hey, well, this is, this is probably what happened. This is like likely to have. Right. And then it's like, okay, well, seems likely, but we're just going to ban this one person over here. So you also have to look at the investigation and then go, okay, this is, it's not a positive test, but this is equivalent to a positive test and then you can do something about it. The people making the bans have to be okay. I mean, I was a part of a case where there was a lot of circumstantial evidence, but there wasn't a positive test. Right. And the response was kind of like, there's no positive test here. Right. Let me stuff my head in the sand. And I think that's like nothing will ever change then. Right. So then I guess it goes back to like, if we don't respect that, then should we be spending money on that and that be like a way to make change? Yeah, it's a tricky, sticky topic. But yeah, it's, it's, I think it's the future and I wish people would take those things more seriously. Would you have gotten off the podium? I mean, like everybody got off second through seventh or second through eighth got off. Yeah, well, I wouldn't have been on a podium, but no, this is my moment. I finally made a podium. Probably would have just because peer pressure. I don't know. I wonder like, if you asked each one of those kids individually, like what if it was just you walking off? Will you still do it? It probably would have been like, no. Right. But maybe they chatted beforehand. I don't know. I don't know what I would have done. Yeah. I would have walked off just peer pressure. Yeah. I'm not a person who gives into your peer pressure, but if everyone got off, but me, I might. Right. And then it's like, well, are you supportive of this kid? Like look at this article, like you saying that that's okay. I don't know. I guess if, if a kid didn't walk away, I wouldn't have been like, what a piece of shit. Like, no, I get that side too. I can understand why you would be hesitant. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, I want to bring up another thing. Okay. Do it. In this range, speaking of hesitant, hesitant to bring it up. Well, what about that two 1053 debut? Women's, women's marathons wild. Where was that at? Is it Barcelona? Barcelona, I think. Yeah. Yes. So she, I knew, I was like, I know that name. And so she was seventh or eighth at the Olympic 10,000 and seventh or eighth at World Champs this past year in Tokyo, which is very good. But doesn't give an indication that you're going to debut in the marathon at what most people consider to be the new world record, right? Because it's only Japan. Yeah. Second fastest all time. Yeah. Second fastest all time. Yeah. And then afterwards, she was talking about how she had actually been targeting the world record. Yeah. But it fell apart with the wins. And I just said I wouldn't have gotten off the podium because I don't know for sure. So I don't want to say shit or anything like that. But I'm, but I'm like, it makes me very uncomfortable. Yeah. I mean, I think this kind of goes back to what we talked about with Chep and Giddich, where it's like, what thresholds are we allowed to have for women? What, you know, like when can you be excited? When do you just call bullshit? And I don't know, it's hard to, it's hard to be a fan if you can't celebrate performances like that. Like what's the point? Right. But at the same time, you're not like, nobody's naive. It's like, obviously, this is happening in the sport. It's hard to believe anything these days. But it's, I don't know, I guess for women, and maybe this is just a bias, obviously, from me, but it seems like we're not allowed to have those breakthrough performances in the way that like a lot of people celebrated KipTum or we celebrated KipChogi sub two. And that was like, this is a, you know, an achievement that shows what humanity can do. And women and it's just like, nah, not real. Drugs, drugs, drugs. I think your spot on, I would add the one caveat is I kind of think if you're white, it's a little bit different. Like Kili Hodgkinson took down the world record in the 800, the head stood for so long and that was like widely celebrated. So yeah. Well, I mean, Paula Radcliffe case in point is that was an absolute outlier of a world record. And it was like, okay, no one's touching that, but they can run to 17 to 18 and that's acceptable. What is that equivalent to in the super shoes with the new nutrition? Yada, yada, would it be a sub two 10? And would that be okay? Right? I don't know. I mean, the time doesn't make me think that's impossible anymore because I haven't been able to comprehend what we've been seeing for the last five years anyway. Right. Oh yeah, two 1053. Yeah, that sounds all right. You know, but the part that's harder for me is like, I've no, I don't know that I know of someone who debuted and went after the world record and a world record that was under suspicion. You know, like most people run one and run hard. I'm trying to think of the Ethiopian who is so dominant in the 10,000 and she moved up. She ran like 216 and everyone was like, failure. Yeah. Oh yeah. G'day. Right? I don't know. G'day. Yeah, let's us a make G'day. She was like this beautiful 10,000 meter and 5,000 meter runner and she ran 216 and everyone was like, and I'm like, guys, it's our first marathon. I mean, O'Berry's debut is pretty similar as well. Yeah. Like, will she win? Right. So that gives me pause for sure that someone is so aggressive, but and that's what's funny because the time isn't even like what I'm just like, oh yeah, yeah, two 1053. Yeah, sure. I mean, why not? Right. Well, it will be interesting to see like there's just an incredible field in London. They're going to be primed to go fast. They just lost Sophan Hasan, which is unfortunate from the field with the Nikili's thing, but it's going to be a ripper and then you're going to see, you know, dominant O'Berry in New York, in Boston, finally on that flat course, like, okay, let's get some perspective because I don't think anyone's been well, O'Berry is running too well in New York. Right. Or O'Berry is running too well on the Boston course. That's not real. Like, okay, I want to see a comparison point on a flat course. Like, what can she do? And then, right. I mean, if she ran 210 or she ran sub 210, are we okay with it? I mean, I guess we have to wait and see what happens, but yeah, right. I do think the reaction for women is always different. I totally agree with you. It's like, this was a world record or second fastest time ever. And it was kind of like, for a day, people were talking about it. It was like, moving on. Yeah. Well, I go back to, it was kind of talking about the sub 210 and people, you know, there was like, there's no magical thinking in this sport. You can't do that, yada, yada, which I understand there's, you know, you have to have some guardrails, but also, you go back to the early history of women's sports, like, well, they also told us our Udres would fall out if we ran over 800 meters. So sometimes we do need magical thinking just to see what we can do. Like, you know, and so it's just very strange space to be in, which is weird because it shouldn't be. Right. No, I know. Yeah. Any. Well, that was fun. Speaking of debuts, let's roll on. We have so much, so much. I forgot, I was ready to go to world indoors, but I forgot. Grandfisher ran his first half marathon at the New York City half. What did you think, Kara? I thought I've really actually just loved his humility after, because he, first of all, he did not run bad. What did he run like? Thank you. Yeah. God, like, what did he run? I can't even remember, like 61 or 60 something? 6050, 6030. I mean, 6060101. Yeah. Sub 61. He was, okay, Chris just told us, sub 61. And people are like, oh, man, I thought he was going to get the email. I'm like, he was honest the whole time being like, I don't know what I'm doing. This is like a new adventure for me. I wish I had a little bit more time to train. So he runs and maybe he was out a little too quick and he faded a bit over the last few miles is basically what I gathered from it. I loved his humility. He was like, yeah, I mean, it's really different than the track. There's like hills, you know, and New York City half is not an easy course. I thought it was a great debut. I don't know why people expect people to just be brilliant the first time they do something. It rarely goes that way, you know? Right. And he's also hasn't been shy that he's not switching fully over to the road. So he's getting right back on the track. So how much time do you dedicate to this one sort of experiment? Right. You're not fully committed to yet. Like, yes, it was important, but this is not his year. And he ran pretty well. I ran with a bunch of guys who are very road focused and, you know, getting ready for big spring marathons. And I think that that's like, there's a fatigue element to it, but they're also like pretty prime at this point to get ready for Boston or London. So and it fell apart in the last few miles, which just shows like he hasn't had the time to really do. They're doing big, big mileage. I'm assuming he does. He's a pretty big mileage guy, but there's a difference between a 10K and a half marathon. It's twice as far. What's the difference? It's a big difference, you know? It's almost a seven mile difference. So it just it is a different beast. And like, I don't know, like I got super lucky with my first half, but every half after that was hard. And I just in that half was really hard too. I just had no idea what I was doing. And I just got lucky, but I just think people like kind of what I was talking about with Colt, like the expectation and or Jane is like so crazy. And I actually want to get back to this when we talk about world indoor too. People need to calm down and Grant Fisher spelled out like, I'm doing this as an experiment. I don't have the proper time to train for it. I'm interested in the marathon. I'm interested in the roads. This is where I'm starting. And then all I saw were like, will he get under the American record? How far will he get under the American record? I'm like, guys, it's not even a record breaking course. Right. You can't do that. And also, I mean, the commentary afterwards, the headlines afterwards were a little bit rough too. Like, you know, poor performance fades late. I mean, he did fade, but like it was a solid day. It's a very good field. And it's a debut. You don't great. It's not always got your way. Yeah. I agree, though. I did. I liked the humility. And I do think that I think it's, I think it's kind of the perfect experience because it was a quality solid run, particularly on that course in that field. And I think he walks away and goes like, oh, I really, if I want to do this, I have to focus on it and change how I train. It can't be, let me step off the track and just go rip some faces off. I have to be focused on it and put in the effort. And I think that that's going to force him to approach the marathon with more respect. And I think that'll pay off. I think when you have those really good days, like if he sets the American record unofficially, and he doesn't really know why, it's just like, yep, I'm a natural. This is great. Then you go into the next one and eventually you step up to the marathon. It's like kind of by Chimney-ass. So I think it's going to be a good learning lesson as he gets into the roads and as he steps up, which I think will serve him well instead of just being like, well, I'm a natural. It'll come easy to me, which is good. I mean, the storylines for the Men's 2028 marathon team are looking very interesting. Bananas. It's so fun. Yeah, it's going to be fun. There's going to be so much new blood, but not very much experience. And then there's going to be people like Connor and Clayton that have a lot of experience but are a little bit older. So it's going to be fascinating. I mean, it's less than two years away. So it's going to be interesting to see who steps into debuts, who gets one or two under their belt to get that experience. The next World Championship team will be fascinating. I guess that'll push right up onto the trials. So does that even, I mean, I doubt big hitters will do it because it's embaging too. So weather probably won't be great. Yeah. But who knows? I mean, good practice. I mean, if it lands in Phoenix. Right, true. It's been warm there. But yeah, I think the Men's is shaping up to be really good. And there's like a lot of people that aren't on radars yet even that are going to have breakout days in, have the time's been released? Because I was talking to Ryan about this today. It was like the racing might be dictated in a totally different way because you have three men who actually get the standard or have the ranking ahead of time in the trials or the trials. Is that like a time trial plus trial? Right. I don't know. Yeah. Sorry. I just need to look that up at some point. It's so far away that I'm like, I haven't thought about it, but I don't think it'll be, I think the men have really stepped up and I don't think the time will be a thing that is a problem going into this trials. Yeah, I hope not. Because explaining unlocking spots on TV was very... What do you mean unlock? Well, there's a key. Yeah. Conner and Clayton have unlocked spots, but they're not necessarily theirs. And it was like so hard to describe. So I just hope that there's a bunch of people with the time and that they can just race. Yeah. That'd be nice. All right. All right. Pushing on. Speaking of racing. Let's roll into world indoors. And I kind of want to hit, if you are okay with it, the 8, 15 and 3, but I want to end on the men's 3. Okay. Yeah. Let's just, I saw highlights and caught occasional results. So let's just... Yeah. I mean, I wasn't paying attention big time, but I think it was a good meet for the U.S. a lot of medals. Women's 800, Keeley Hodgkinson won, Addy Wiley got third. And I thought that was really good. I mean, she's never made an outdoor team. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. What do you think about the women's eight situation? It seems like pretty wide open. Like she seems kind of, I don't know if she's a front runner at this point. I mean, outdoors, everyone kind of shows up in a different way, but that's a huge step forward. It's a huge step forward. I think that the meet was a little weird. It seemed like there were a lot of Ethiopian athletes and Kenyan athletes that had visa issues. So Kenya has a couple of really good 800 million runners. They weren't there, but I think Keeley Hodgkinson is like kind of stamped herself as the queen of that event. And then I think it's Wero from Switzerland was second and then Addy Wiley was third. I think in the U.S., it is kind of wide open right now. I mean, Sage Hurd-A-Clecker had such a good year last year, she was fifth at World Champs, but I just think it's like that event just seems to be not consistent in the U.S. It's kind of all over the place. Yeah. Yeah. And Addy Wiley has been around for a while. She went pro after just one year of college and she ran NAIA and her history is a little confusing and who's coaching her is a little bit confusing. But I will say one of the things I really like about her is she'll just be like, well, they're not just going to give out the medals. That's why we race for them. Like she just believes in herself. She's like, I think I can run with anyone and I don't know. You have to kind of have that self-belief. So her first medal. No one's going to do it for you. No one's going to do it for you. It's like, you have it. Yeah. Valerie Tobias got de-cued in her prelim and yeah, looked like she had made it through and... Good world experience so far. I mean, she's been there before, but I think you go in a second time, you have the self-belief, you get the confidence from getting through and then you learn the mistake. Get all these things out of the way now. Yeah, no, I mean, she ran a great round. She ran clean. She knew she had to be in the top two. She got it done. And then she had stepped on the line repeatedly barely, but she did. They're so picky and indoors. That's always... So that sucked. They should be, but yes. Yeah. And then what'd you think about the men's? I mean, come on. I thought we were going to end with that. 17-year-old Cooper Luckton House, Luckton House wins the global title. Man to ever win a medal in the world championship. An indoor medal. Indoor title. Did I watch that race because I had to go back and watch it? And I thought, I had a lot of thoughts. But I think, some people were saying he raced like a pro and he still looks like a high schooler to me. He's looking over his shoulder a lot. I think he looked over his shoulder three times in the last lap and I'm not criticizing him. I'm like, he's a kid. He's a kid. He doesn't know to look up or not let anyone know. And I just felt like there was so much pressure on him because I think he had the fastest time going in. It hasn't been a crazy indoor season. A lot of the favorites weren't in there. And every round he just got through them. The pressure seemed to build and build. And when he crossed the finish line, this is going to sound bad, but he looked relieved. Yeah. I agree with that. Remember when he made the US team this summer, he was like, what? And he won the world title and he was like, yay. And I just thought, what are we doing to this kid? But also good for him because that was so much pressure and he ran clean and he got the job done and he's freaking world champion. That's wild. It's crazy. I think that's an interesting question in like, what are we doing to this kid? When you sign that big pro contract, whatever it is, that number is probably massive. Oh yeah. Can you say that anymore? Or is this like, hey, you're, this is adult shit now. Like you just signed a thing that said this is adult shit. I still feel like he is still a kid though, right? Like I know, I'm sure he has a, I'm sure he has a seven figure contract, I would guess. And he signed it at 16. And yes, there's pressure that comes with that. But I would hope that Nike and us would be like, we know there's a lot of learning here. I mean, he looked like a fish out of water at World Champs last year. It was just like, because he was a fish out of water because he'd never been there before. He'd never been anything like that. And even as I was watching his final and like he was looking over his shoulder and I'm like, that's stuff you learn as you get to be a professional. You learn how to listen. You learn how to use the scoreboard. So I don't know. I mean, yeah, I guess when you're making that kind of money, it's like you are the favorite in this situation with the people that are here. But I'm also like, he's still just a kid though. Yeah, like he's literally, he can't vote. He's a junior in high school. Can't vote. You know, buy a drink. That's how he spent his spring break. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's very much a kid. He's, you know, in high school, as you said, but I just, I go back to Mary Kane where like you make these very, very big decisions that I think adults offer you and then there's sort of this expectation of like, okay, this is professional. Thus, you are required to be professional. And I don't know that that's fair at all. I don't think it necessarily is. But when you sign onto it, it's like, it's almost implied. So I don't know, like, I don't know how you turn that down if you're him. Right. But all the things that come with it, like it's not as glamorous all the time as it seems. Right. Yeah. Well, I was super happy for him. Yeah, definitely. Like, I mean, I think it's a little bit of getting that weight off too. Like, I've done it. I know I can do it. I know, like, why they believe in me. I've proven that it's like, for real. And sometimes just getting that first like experience under your belt probably goes a long way. I'm acting like I have any clue, but I know I'm like, yeah, totally. When I won the I World title at 17. I felt so much better after. I think that has to be mentally just like a huge victory for him. And I just hope he remembers that he's still a kid. I'm sure he does. But I mean, yeah, just people were writing people around him remember that he's still a kid. Yeah, that's actually better. Everyone around him that is going to turn on the professional, you know, switch and be like, okay, let's do the appearances. Let's make you a money making machine. It's like, right. Pump the brakes. You have a little bit of a while. He's young and very good. And I if he enjoys it, and I think you have to look at a thing, Moe, I have an example. If he's enjoying it, odds are you'll be able to use him, utilize him a lot longer for your business. Right. I know. It's so true. I know Cole was like, dude, does this mean he's a medal favorite for the Olympics? And I was like, well, World Indoor's is a little different. It doesn't always translate over like this is the third American in three years to win the World Indoor title. Bryce Hopple won it in 24 and he had fendished fourth at the Olympics in an American record in a perfect race. And I believe he should be a bronze medalist because I don't buy one of the athletes in front of him, but whatever he's not. Then Josh Hoey won it last year. And then Josh Hoey didn't even make the World Championship team because he got beat by Bryce and Donovan and Cooper. So I was like, there's indoors is tricky because there's a lot of really good people and usually the people that go are ready and they're like really ready to be there, but a lot of people aren't there. So it's not necessarily like this perfect linear line of like, oh, you won a medal indoors. Oh, it's just going to translate. But I was like, it means, I mean, he's still an indoor world champion and he got through the rounds and he handled the pressure and the interviews and he got all that experience, which is invaluable leading into 28. Yeah. Every one of those is going to be a good opportunity to just make it more and more and more and more familiar and more comfortable the next round. So yeah, good for him. That was cool. Okay. All right. 1500s. I have to just say, we'll probably end up talking about her, but Jess Hall had kind of like, she was like the athlete of the meet for me. Yeah. Because she, well, she got a silver in the 15. And then she got out leaned by Emily McKay for a bronze in the three, but she had to race three days in a row where everybody else was just in one. Yeah. And you know, I was, yeah, when I was running today, I was thinking like, well, maybe if she had just focused on the 15, she would have won or maybe if she had just focused on the three, but I kind of appreciated her just like, like college racing, just running it all. But so the women's 15, Highlum had like a big lead. She went off way too fast. She was out weight really, really hard. And Jess Hall and Georgia Hunter Bell and a couple other people just kind of sat back and then started to reel her in. And then at the bell, I think Georgia Hunter Bell took it basically at the bell and ran away with it with Jess Hall in second and Nikki Hiltz had a crazy last like 15 meters to get themselves into the bronze position. So that was a pretty good race. I mean, the Paris podium was just Hall second, Georgia Hunter Bell third, Nikki Hiltz fifth. So I felt like that was a pretty like good feel to be ready this time of year. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't have a ton of thoughts on it. Just I was impressed by Jess Hall. I was impressed by Georgia Hunter Bell who three years ago, I had no idea I would have never been able to tell you who she was. Now she has an Olympic bronze, a world silver from last year in the eight and a global title. Yeah. And then Nikki Hiltz winning another medal indoors because they won silver in 24. So okay, this is just a good race. I wonder if Hiltz needs to be a little bit more aggressive in the middle of the race because I wonder if it seems like it's always a massive kick. Right. And I'm thinking like if Hiltz had been right on Hall or Hunter Bell, they wouldn't have had to move from so far. Right. So I wonder if that'll be something they toy with this year being a little bit more aggressive. They're very comfortable in the pack, very comfortable if they are in the back a little bit. But I think to win one of these global medals, which I mean, this is their second medal, but they're going to have to be a little bit closer to the action. Yeah. Because even at the Olympics, they closed so well, but the top three had gotten away. So that was really the only thought I had was like, I wonder if Nikki's going to really try this year to work on that, you know, that 400 to 1200 of the race. Where are people going this year to work on these types of things? Like probably Diamond League. Diamond League and then Ultimate Championships to people care. I guess I mean, the athletes I've talked to are excited about the Ultimate Championship, but they have to be invited. So they have to have a certain ranking. You have to unlock your ranking. But I think it's a good year to do a lot of Diamond League races in to unlock your spot. I think it's a good year for people to take some risks in Diamond Leagues. And yeah, you know, fun season of racing just because there's, you know, the not that big thing you're winding up for. We do get what Commonwealth's this year. So that's always big. Yeah. Not for us, but well, no, for those Americans, but for everybody else. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Do you have any other thoughts on the women's 15? No. Yeah. I don't have a ton of thoughts on the men's 15 because I'm super US centric because I was on vacation. That's all I really cared about. Nathan Green made the final. I think he was fifth or sixth, which I thought was pretty good for someone who had to go chase the standard. Right. And got it. A lot of work just to get there, right? Yeah. So I thought that was a really solid run. But other than that, I didn't pay that much attention. Okay. Next. Okay. Women's 3000. I thought it was a really, really good race. It was kind of slow at first and then it just got cranky. And then Nadia Bottacletti, who again, I didn't know who she was until Paris. Yep. She got a burst onto the scene. She got a bronze at Paris in the 10,000. Last year, she got a silver in the 10,000 bronze in the 5,000. She's been running Cross this year. It hasn't really been running any indoor races. So I didn't, you know, the 3,000, you have to be kind of sharp. But she was able to kick away from everybody. And when did she make her move? How far out? I want to say over the last lap, but I don't, I don't know for sure. Yeah. Just seems if you're like coming off Cross, obviously you're super strong. But like, how does that, that turnover come around? Has that speed when you need to change gears come around? Yeah. Well, she thinks that she was open though. She said she was surprised at how good she felt. Jess Hall, I think did a lot of the pushing and looked like she was going to get second. But Emily Mackay is kind of a baddie. I mean, she like hung in there. And I just watched the last hundred of the race because she barely got Jess for the silver medal, but she does not quit. Yeah. Like she was going to go all the way through that line with everything she had. And if it still was bronze, then great. But she was like, I think I can get silver. I don't know. It was really impressive. They needed that like 60 meter pad at the end. She's coming in like a freight train. The pad up. I think like Emily Mackay is going to be super interesting to follow. She made the Paris team in the 1500. She made it to the semi last year. She made the team again. I think she got knocked out in the semi last year too. But she won a medal at the 24 indoor worlds that she got bronze and then silver with some like really good people. I feel like she's someone we sleep on because there's so much talent, but it's like she's always there. Yeah. And like there's a level of consistency that's not sexy. Like yeah, she made it again. But oh yeah, she was bronze. Right. You don't celebrate it as much as we should because you're like, well, of course, but yeah, I need the breakthrough. Yeah. Which I think is probably around the corner. I think when you're super consistent like that, just like keep getting those attempts, those attempts, and then all of a sudden it happens and everyone's like, holy shit, where'd she come from? Yeah. I'm calling it now. I think she's going to be like, I think she's going to be the one to beat in 27 and 28. I'm calling it now. I just like her progression. It's consistent, but small. Right. But you can see her starting to believe more and more. I don't know. Yeah. It was good. Good race, but the race I really, really want to talk about is the Men's 3000. The race with me, right? Because yes, because you have the three medalists from Paris 1500. Cole Hawker, Josh Kerr, Yard N' Goose, All in One Race. Yeah. And that doesn't happen very often in indoors. Right. You know, it was so good. And I'm okay. Did it live up to the hype? Go ahead. No, sir. For me, it did. Because I think Cole Hawker has gotten really confident in the fact that he doesn't have to be strategically perfect because he has such a good last 100. So as long as he's 80% accurate, it's going to be okay. And then you have someone like Josh Kerr who like literally watches film. He's strategically perfect. 100% the best strategist out there, like a chess player. And he knows when he's going to move and he's going to do it. And he, I think he caught Hawker a little bit off guard. He went with a lap to go and he went hard. And I think that Hawker gave him a couple seconds and he should have immediately switched gears, but he was like, I'll still be able to catch him. Yeah. And he couldn't. And so, and this isn't like a, like a dis on Hawker. I mean, he just wanted silver medal. But I just think it was super interesting because I'm always like Cole Hawker, just even when he's in trouble, he gets out of trouble and the things, like the things part and he sees it. It's one of his skills. He sees the opening, but I was like, that's a very different skill than Josh, who's almost anal about his preparation, right? And almost like very rigid about what his race plan is going to be and just 100% committed to it. Do you think, do you think he is rigid or do you think it's like flexible, given what other people are doing? Or do you think he has ABCD, like how many scenarios does he have? I think he probably has more than one, but he has one very specific. Like I'm going to ride the train in second place or third place. And this is where I'm going to make my move. And because that's what we saw in Budapest when he won. It's what we saw at the Olympics when he, you know, he made the move when he was ready. And I think he was like, I'm going with 200 at World Champs. I'm going to ride that. I'm going to weather the storm and at 200, I'm going for it and catching everybody off guard. And that's exactly what happened. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think what's been cool for like, from watching him is that he keeps adding new tools to the bag too. Yeah. Like it's like, it was like one tactic for a long time. I think he saw white men in Eugene get that win. It was like, holy shit, like there's another totally different thing I could do. I feel like he used that for, you know, a year. It was way more common than he was going to go from that far out. And then he's always adapting, but you don't lose those old tools, which makes him super lethal. And particularly when you have a guy like Hawker who probably has the quicker like last hundred and that change of gear. But if you can get him rock backed on his heels, or just outsmart him, like he's beatable. And I think that's so interesting about the event, is no one's so good that they can make mistakes. Like Hawker, I think, made a mistake in his strategy. So I love what you just said about Kerr, because you're right. When he won in Budapest, he went with 200 to go and that's what Whiteman had done. But then when he raised Ingebrigtsen at pre the next year, he went at 400. And then at the Olympics, he went with 100. So he kind of is like, he never does the same thing, or sometimes he does, but he's always like, what have they been doing? I mean, he talks about how he watches races back and he, you know, he probably is like, like looked at that field and was like, so and so is going to do this, so and so is going to do this. This is how I win. And I mean, remember, like we saw him limping off the track in Tokyo. Yeah. No, that's what I was going to say. Honestly, the cool part about it is just that this is like, it's not a comeback because he's Josh Kerr and he's done so many amazing things and has the global medals, but he was kind of knocked down for a bit. And then yeah, Milrose, Milrose was fantastic. But of course, everyone's like, well, he lost, you know, like that's where the expectation goes is like, well, he didn't win it this year. It's like, yeah, it was sort of really fucking good race. And right. And now he, you know, punches through and it's like, he's back. It's like, well, yeah, he never really laughed. What do you think about Noguz? I think last year, probably had to be super frustrating for him. And I think the Grand Slam schedule and preparing for the eight and doing things a little bit differently than he probably needed to. I would imagine that there's some big shifts going on this year and how they structure their year and how and when they're ready and like what they're ready for. All that said, I think he's there because he wanted to compete well and be ready for a world championship. So yeah, I mean, he's got to be disappointed, but also long, long year, long season. Yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons why you could not that fit as bad, but why you could be justify his positioning. But after the race, he was talking about like, I made some mistakes I won't make again. And I feel like that is one of his little, like he's so good, but he's not necessarily, one of his gifts is not necessarily reading the race. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, he's like, I, if he's on, he goes to the front and he's gonna push it, right? And that's where he feels comfortable. Over the whole way. Yeah. And I wonder, I just, I wonder when you think about overall season, if it's like, I'm not really ready for that strategy yet. So we have to be a little different in our approach here. But again, it's a world championship. So why are you there if you're not ready? Yeah. But I don't know. And also maybe it's just something as simple as like, let's try this different way. Yeah. And see what happens and then learn from those mistakes. Weird place to get learnings, but it's not as big of a championship as an outdoor, obviously. Yeah. It's just like, when I think about those big guys, I'm like, Josh is the ultimate strategist and chess player. Cole Hawker has this gift of seeing the opening, like maybe he hasn't strategized ahead of time, but he's really good in the moment of seeing the move, watching unfold and making his calculations. And I think Yara doesn't, I don't know that he, those are his skills. Right. Yeah. He has different skills. Yeah, like he has to be the aggressor. Yeah. Although, I mean, that's not obviously not how he won his medal. So I mean, it's true. There's someone who's, who else is an aggressor and he can just ride the fast pace and make it a fitness speed contest and not necessarily a tactical affair. I mean, that's going to be advantageous for him. So a guy like anywhere with a pacer, right? Helpful. Yep. But yeah, I mean, I think getting in a championship race like this is always beneficial. For sure. Fun stuff. Okay. We talked about everything. I was like really happy for Team USA. I feel like they went and they got a lot of experience and they got a lot done. And it doesn't mean that it's going to automatically mean medals outdoors, but I just felt like it was a really good showing for Team USA and the distance events. And I'm not sad I didn't call it because I would much rather have been on vacation with my family, but it would have been a fun meet to call for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I liked your comment earlier just about, I can't remember. I forgot. Oh, you're talking to Colt about the medals and Cooper and his, does this mean he's now the favorite for that? And it's like, it's not quite the one-to-one way it works, but it is a really great meet and the titles mean something. And I think sometimes we get caught off and like, well, it's just an indoor title or like, it's not as meaningful. It's like, nah, those are world medals, global wins, a huge deal. So what does it mean moving forward? Who cares? Let's just be stoked for what they did. Yeah, I like that. Cool. All right. Okay, let's hit a top five on this thing home. Turns out this was a long one. Okay. We promised a long one. Okay, I'll go with, I'm going to shout out Colt for learning how to race at New Balance Indoors. And my friend Hunter Robbie, Kate Robbie, my friend, he Kate Robbie's fun, got second at the two mile and got a PR in the mile. So Hunter Robbie, who's off to Duke in the fall, second at the national championship. And I've known the kids since he was super little and it's just fun to see him like, I don't know, grow into this great athlete. So happy for him. Love it. Okay. I'm going to go with a nice little coffee shop in Berkeley, California called Ain't Normal Cafe. Absolutely phenomenal cup of coffee. Cool hang. Thank you to Magda and Celia for showing me this wonderful place. I made it over there three times during the weekend and bought a couple bags of coffee that I go to bed dreaming about my cup of morning. Like I'm like, I can't wait for this coffee. So it's gotten me through the show today. Oh good. Yeah. Yay. Okay, I think the fifth one we're going to do together. So I guess I will just for this one say the Vandover family, Liz and Minneapolis, I've known Steph and over we dance together. That's how we actually met when we were kids and then we ran together and skied together and have stayed friends all this time. But they are amazing planners. They're like, we're going to go to this country. We're going to run a place. Do you want in? And they, we just for a long for the ride. Like Steph had researched all the beaches. She had researched the restaurants. Like we just did what she did. So shout out to them for helping us have an amazing spring break and just being great friends. It was really fun. Love it. It's a good one. All right. I'm going to go with the goo lab team who put us through all the tests while I was out in Oakland, showed me around their offices and yeah, they were just awesome. It was cool to hang with them, spend time with them, see what they're working on. I feel like goo is a brand that like has been around forever. They're like the OGs. Yeah, they are all this fancy new fendangled stuff out there. But tried and true and they have some incredible stuff that like we'll never get the love it deserves, but it should because like the prototype stuff that I got to use and work with and try like mind blowing. And I think you'll hear more stories about it after MDS. So stay tuned. Cool. That's exciting. Yeah. Very cool. Okay. So our last one is joint, which is that we're welcoming a new Brooks teammate. Tell us who it is. Okay. Clayton Young signs with Brooks. How exciting is that we were pumped to have him at Save the 10,000 on the mic. And I think both of us have gotten to know him quite a bit over the last year or so. And just a super kind fella. And I think he'll fit into the Brooks team really well. I'm excited. I'm excited. I don't race anymore, but I'm excited to call him a teammate. I'm excited to see what he does at Brooks. I think he's one of the like talk about a great strategist. I think he is in the marathon. And I just think he's going to bring, I don't know, like you said, he's one of the nicest guys. He's going to be fun to have over at Brooks, excited to see what he does over the next four, five, six years. And yeah, just excited for him. It's always hard to leave a sponsor you were with for a long time, but I'm super pumped that he chose Brooks. Yeah. Yeah. I think that speaks volumes about the brand just that he was able to step away from a partnership that was obviously meaningful and supportive. And it was like, actually, this makes more sense. So tip to Brooks for getting that done, because that's a huge deal. All right. Sweet. Good job. We did do a short one.