Valentine’s Day Romance vs Reality and Falling Head-Over-Heels for Food!!

This week on The Chef's Cut, we are pulling back the curtain on how chefs really feel about Valentine's Day in restaurants. Every year, we call it the Valentine's Day Massacre. The real reason that your favorite restaurant has a special Valentine's Day menu. The expectation for most guests is like, it's a special day. I need a special menu. And we reflect on how to keep the flame burning with those very special work relationships. It's like seeing your ex with like, you know, their new person and you're like, Oh, really? This week, we are really going to focus on Valentine's Day because we get a lot of questions as chefs and as people who work in the hospitality industry. A lot of people want to know, they actually care what it's like on the other side on Valentine's Day in restaurants. My perspective is that a lot of people put pressure on celebrating it. You know, girlfriends, boyfriends, new relationships, marriages, some people put a lot of pressure on celebrating Valentine's Day. A lot of people do that by going somewhere to eat. That equals busy restaurants and restaurant reservations. So, you know, let's get into the weeds a little bit on Valentine's Day. And, you know, I like my new segments and names. So In the Weeds is where we're going to go into depth on Valentine's Day. All right. I'm with it. I'm with it. I will walk into the weeds with you. You're a little bit shorter, so I'll hold your hand and pull you up so you can see. Thank you. Like that time in Colorado where I couldn't see over the blinds when we got to Aspen for our finale. Yeah, that was, I forgot about that. That was hilarious. You were like, Oh my God, this, look at that view. You're like, I can't see shit. And then you pulled a chair so I could stand up on the chair. I was like, Oh wow, that's actually gorgeous. Always a gentleman. So, okay, Joe, what is Valentine's day to you? Do you love it or do you hate it? I don't think it's like, I love it or hate it. It's not like as polarizing to me as that. It's one of those days where it's like, I think Valentine's Day in general is insane, but you know what I mean? I think like from a restaurant perspective, it's like, it does put a lot of pressure on us, right? Because there's kind of two camps. There's the people who think like, oh, I don't want to do anything for Valentine's Day. I just want to be able to go have a normal dinner. But most of the people out there, I'm getting calls, you know, a couple of weeks ago already, like a month out where people are like, well, what's your Valentine's Day menu? What are you doing special? I need something special. It's got to be special. So it's like having four restaurants now it's like i have three where it's like we have to run special prefix menus we need to be able to do it for two days you got to do it the friday and saturday but it's like you got to do it for two days you need to have you know a special menu do all these things because it's like i think sometimes you get the outside perspective of people like it's valentine's day it's a hot night so like restaurants just want to like jack everything up and i'm sure there's some of that too but it's like but the expectation for most guests is like it's a special day. I need a special menu. I'm trying to do something special and I need you to help facilitate that for me. Right. And so it's like, we have to be able to do that. We have to be able to curate a special experience for them. Now having four restaurants, it's like, I have one where in like Bartuto where it's like, you know, casual, more like neighborhood hangout. Right. So like that one, it's like, no, we're not doing anything. But I think it's nice that it's like, now it's like, I have that option too of like, Hey, if you just want to go out to dinner, come to dinner, you know but like most of the people they want that special occasion you know like a steakhouse it's crazy but the other thing i think people don't realize like the weirdest thing about valentine's day is like a normal service you get a mix of tables right you have two tops you have four tops threes five sixes sevens eights nine valentine's day you look at those spreads and it's like if you're doing 300 people you're doing 150 tables and it's like you have to bring in extra two tops and you have to like look at all this stuff and all your big tables you know we have a couple six stops at rosemary where it's like borderline probably won't use those yeah for two days because no we're not going to have a six stop for two days you're only going to have like that's not how you run a normal service so it's just like makes it like a weird different pressure on it so it's like a whole unique weird kind of beast to it where it's like and people put a lot of pressure on it and they want it to like really be you know like oh my god i want this to be the most romantic night of my life. And it's like, Hey, we're going to make it super delicious and super nice, but I can't make you better at conversation. You know what I mean? If you, if you didn't have any game before you showed up here, like I'm not doing a one hour crash course on how to talk to somebody before you. Right. Yeah, I should, maybe that should be an offer. Hey, maybe you have a conversation starter card on the table so people can keep their conversation lively and going during their romantic dinner. Hey, it's not a bad idea. See, okay, when I was in restaurants, it was the thing that I hated about Valentine's Day every year, without a doubt, is it comes smack in the middle of the slow season. So after the holidays, after New Year's, restaurants usually go through a lull where it's slow because it's also really cold outside if you live in the north. So it's super cold. Not a lot of people are going out. You're staffing less people. your team is not at the same rhythm for doing a super busy night. And then you just get hit in the face with Valentine's day. And we use every year, we call it the Valentine's day massacre. Every restaurant I worked at, we always, we always call it guys ready for the Valentine's day massacre. Let's go because you're going to get your butt kicked all night. You're not, you're not at that, that level of doing like, you know, turning and burning and just going through service so fast. And then you're just all of a sudden going from cooking for a hundred people on Tuesday to cooking for 350 on Wednesday because it's Valentine's day. And especially it's like, you know, if you have a really cold February, you could go from cooking for 50 people on Tuesday, or especially in fine dining, you know, you could go from 20 to 200. Yeah. And it's like, Hey, you want to go for a jog? It's like, yeah. Okay. And then it's like, all right, Now we're going to sprint for six hours until we puke. And it's like, what do you mean? Yes. You're like, it's a gut punch. It's just a huge gut punch. That's always like the blessing of the curse of it. It's like, you know, you're like this. It's been super cold in Chicago. So it's like, everybody's like, oh yeah, can't wait for Valentine's Day. Because you know it's my business, right? So it's like something that, you know, business-wise you look forward to. Okay, Joe, listeners want to know. And this is something that we have fielded through Instagram. Are restaurants taking advantage of people on Valentine's Day with the expensive Valentine's Day prefix or the expensive Valentine's tasting menu? I mean, it depends on the place is my perspective. It's like I think it's like if you do it nice, like it's it's really nice. You know what I mean? Like we do really thoughtful menus and we try to make it like, oh, what would be a good menu for two people to have together where it's not like so crazy filling? So if you have, you know, romantic plans afterwards, you can, you know, attend to those plans. Right. But it's like, but I think, yeah, some places it's like you look at it and you're like, that's crazy. Yeah. I mean, they do a lot of weird stuff where it's like, you know, but I think it's like one of those things. It's like you have to have that offering because there's such a massive call for it. So it's like as a restaurant, you know, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. You know, if you do it, people are going to say that. They're like, oh, you're just trying to take advantage of it. If you don't do it, people are going to not come because they're like, well, I want a special experience because, you know, me and Boo Boo Bear are coming in and, you know, Boo Boo Bear only wants the finest. And so it's like, you know, it's one of those like tight rubs to walk. So that's why it's like for me this year having the four restaurants, it's like it's nice to have the one to be like, hey, if you're not about all that, I got you. Come over here. I think one of the things I really like about doing like special prefix menus is like for us, it's like, you know me, like I'm a super hard copy person. like i write notebooks i love hard copy cookbooks the idea of like you get a physical menu that's just for that night like i do really like that like i know it's like cheesy but it's like i love the idea of like having like a physical textile menu like i could take with me if i want and they don't need it for tomorrow because it's not valentine's day anymore but like this is the menu we had that night like you know what i mean i have some saved old menus from like travels and like dinners hill and i have had together i've had with friends over the years like i think like having that, you know what I mean, thing when our memories is so tied to food. Like I said, like I think, you know what I mean, like the cynical part of it, you can look at it whatever you want. But I think that's Valentine's Day in general. You know what I mean? Yeah. I like the prefix menus from an operational perspective. I like them because you know that 85 to 90% of the people dining at a restaurant that night are going to order that Valentine's special menu. So it kind of eases up the fact that your staff is not up to the flow of being so busy because you're picking up multiple of the same dish back to back. So, you know, after the first five, you're more efficient, you're better at it. So I like it from that perspective because it helps the restaurant kind of streamline service, which means the customer is getting better food instead of having to cook like 22 different dishes on one station, you're able to focus on really making this one dish over and over and making it better and better each time for the guests. So I'm, I'm for it. I'm for it. You know? Okay. So let me ask you a question then. Now you're not working a Valentine's day service. So Valentine's day night, you go out. Hell no. Absolutely not. are you cooking at home are you gonna make you know what i mean a nice little special prefix so that depends if it's friday i have to do dinner for for my private client if it's saturday i'm off and i would happily cook something i've actually done tasting menus for steven before at home starting off with like a razor clam ceviche ending on like a lobster tail with red wine. So this is my question about that, of doing a tasty menu at home. So you're plating the course, sitting down, eating the course, and then getting up, going to do the next course? But everything is like par-cooked and prepped out. Or depending on what the next course is, I can pop the vegetables in the oven to warm while we're eating the previous course. I just like the idea of like, you're in the middle of a dinner conversation and you're just like, just give me one sec. And then you like go with the bed. Well we have our kitchen counters So like Steven and I will turn on the sexy lights and sit on the other side And then I just pop around the counter pull the stuff out of the oven plate it go sit back down when you go to the other side of the counter you like go into like chef mode and you're like so how is everything are you having a good time yeah like your date seems really nice um you know like hell yeah as soon as i step into the kitchen like i immediately i take my hair clip my hair goes up You know, it's like all different chef mode. Mark the ticket. I have my dry erase. First course out, second course out. I would have to say, Joe, that at this point in both of our careers, we are past situationships with food and the food industry. We are in long-term relationships. Probably one of the longest standing relationships I've ever had in my life has been with food and the food industry. Yeah, you know, me and the food industry have four kids together, you know? You do. You just gave birth to the fourth one recently. It's like being in food is like saying you're married to your job, but kind of on steroids because it goes beyond being just a job. It is a lifestyle. It's so much more than that. Right. And you're married to a crazy person that everybody's like, why are you married to this person? And you're like, I just love them. I just I just love them so much. You don't see what I see in them. And they're like, no, I don't. They seem like an abusive relationship. They're like, they seem completely insane. And like, this is horrible and terrible. Like, all you do is like complain about this. And you're like, I know, but I love them. So, Joe, I want to ask you a few questions about your relationship with food and the food industry. So let's look at it in terms of the stages of a relationship. What would you say was your first date? I mean, really like, you know, I started working on this when I was 16. And so it was like, you know, bar grill, like working for my buddy's dad. And that was like, you know, my first introduction to it. You know what I mean? The first time meeting them where you're like, oh, why do I feel this way? You know, it feels different. And it did. And I feel like because it's like, you know, especially like in high school, you're looking for a sense of belonging somewhere. Right. And I think that's where, you know, in my life where it's like you've gotten trouble or you either get in trouble or you find something good. Because you find either a sense of belonging with a bunch of people you shouldn't be with. But also like a restaurant, it felt like the first place where I was like, oh, this makes sense. I feel like I belong. You know what I mean? There's a sense of belonging to working in a restaurant where it's like, and I think it's the same thing people get from being on like a team that they really like. And I think you hear people talk about it when they stop playing sports or stop doing stuff of like they miss being on a team. They miss being part of that. And I think it's something you've talked about, you know, since not working in restaurant kitchens anymore, where it's like you miss that sense of team, right? You miss that camaraderie. And I think like that sense of team and camaraderie of a restaurant was what I fell in love with right away. So that's your first date, the moment you fell in love. What was the honeymoon phase? I mean, I think the honeymoon phase was that phase was, you know, 16 to 19 working in restaurants. I felt like I lived a different life than everyone I knew. You know what I mean? I worked late. I got to be out at hours that, you know, 16 and 17 year olds didn't get to be out at. You know what I mean? I worked at a bar that closed at 2 a.m. on Saturday nights. I was driving home at 3 in the morning. You know, like, and it's like most of my friends, like their curfew was four hours before that. But that era of it, it just, I felt like the coolest. I liked when people I knew came into the restaurants. I liked that I knew the people who were regulars. I liked that I knew everybody on the staff and we were friends. And I was friends with all these older people who were like, cool. Like that part of it, it was such a, it was so intoxicating. You know what I mean? I just was, I was part of a grown-up world where everywhere else I was treated like, you know, I'm a kid in high school, right? But like when I was there, I was just part of the team. And I got to live in a world where it's like people talk to me like an adult. I was in adult conversations way beyond my depth for the time, for better or worse. But I think like that's, you know, where it really was for me. And then I think even, you know, when you first get into cooking, those line cook years, Like, I don't know if you can call them the honeymoon years. I don't know how you look back at them. It's like, I kind of look back at them. Like they're almost like the college for us. Right. Where you're like those line cook years where you're like in college and it was crazy and you're a party and like, it was a shit show. And I'm like, it wasn't great, but it was awesome. So it was really awesome. I don't know if I look at my line cook days as a honeymoon phase for sure. I mean, I would consider my first date with the food industry being behind the scenes when my mom worked in restaurants, doing my homework in the non-smoking section, mopping bathrooms, bussing tables for as unglamorous as it was. That was my first date. That's where I was getting to know restaurants. And did I think I would see them again? Wasn't so sure at the time. But then I did start to fall in love with it because of those memories growing up. To me, that was like where you feel accepted. You know, I was sick and I was a little bit of an outsider when I was younger at school. Definitely caught some heat from some bullies. And being in restaurants is where I felt safe. That's where I felt like people loved me. Nobody was judging. Nobody was looking at me crazy for being the sick kid. You know, it was just like they loved me. They protected me. Like that felt like home. So that was kind of how I fell in love with them. and that's why I came back as I got older. But it was really kind of like my first line cook job in Orlando. I had applied for prep cook position and somebody had no call, no showed. So I show up to be a prep cook for that shift and they're like, scratch that, you're on the line. I was like, oh dear God. It went south in so many ways and the sous chef had to come bail me out on my station. I got on the station with no training, no concept. of what the dishes on the station were. I mean, it was kind of their fault for doing that, but they just needed a body on the station. But it was a moment that I really fell in love with it because it's so tactile. It's like, here's a problem. You solve it. You go on to the next. And you're doing that every 30 seconds. And I was like, oh my God, this is like intoxicating. I am loving this. It's instant gratification over and over and over again. And it's that feeling of, you know, I think when people talk about like, I don't fucking golf, but people who golf are like, oh, you hit that one good shot and that's what keeps you going. And I think those early cooking days, it's like you get that one nice knife cut. You plate the one plate that like looks perfect and you're like, you're chasing that feeling. Yep. Nailed it. Got to do that again. I feel like my honeymoon phase was when I worked in pastry at a resort on the Gulf of Mexico. That for me, because it was, it was so OCD. If you mess something up, it's because you deviated from the recipes. You didn't check the humidity monitor on the wall and adjust as the recipe book said. So I'm getting constant praise, right? Because I know how to follow a recipe. Everything you just described is my literal fucking nightmare. Like if somebody was like, what's the worst job you can imagine to be like pastry production in the Gulf of Mexico? It was amazing. And it was like an OCD wet dream in so many ways, but I was getting constant validation, which I hadn't gotten at these restaurants before. And so this was where I was like, oh my God, maybe I'm, maybe I'm kind of good at this. I kind of like this. This was like pure honeymoon phase. Then I went back to the savory side and got my ass kicked again. But that honeymoon phase, boy, it was beautiful. Joe, I really want to ask about work relationships. You know, Valentine's Day is about relationships. It's about love. And there are a lot of relationships that we have with the people around us at work. They're kind of like cousins, siblings, parents. It's a great dynamic of people that you can be very close to, love and hate at the same time. But it's weird because you're just coworkers, but it feels so personal and so close. Well, and like having a chef you work for for a long time is a relationship in a way, any way shape or form and it's like you know sometimes it's not a good one but it still is one you know it's always interesting to me and i don't you know know what your experience has been with it but it's like different chefs like when you have you know i mean it's one thing about the relationship but when you have the breakup right when you gotta tell them it's over and you know like as a as a chef i've been fortunate enough where it's like i've not been on the receiving end of you know i mean somebody breaking up with me of you know getting fired or being told to you know, being dismissed from a job. Okay. Yeah. I've always been the one who left and you know, it's a weird thing. And I think of like the old school mentality of like, you know what I mean? In the nineties and stuff, the stories you'd hear from chefs, it's like, once they left somewhere, they were, I mean, that chef never spoke to you again. Like you were just like, oh yeah, you don't exist. Like, because it was still, I think of like that stiff competition of like, well, if you're leaving, if you're not with us, you're against us. I always wondered where that came from. I'm like, this person, you know, gave their blood, sweat and tears for you. And then unless they get a really big name, that other chef would act like they don't exist. Yeah, because you're going to work for their competition. You're going to work for the enemy. Or going to become the competition. Right. And there's parts of it where it's like, you kind of get, you know what I mean? Where it's like, you know, I'd be lying if I'd never, if I said I never felt a way about where somebody was going to work based on who they were going to work for. where you know what I mean it's like seeing your ex with like you know their new person and you're like oh really like him her that's who you left me for oh okay right like you think they're better than me you know and it's like weird and it's like you know you see chefs they get like weird and jealous about it like oh you know they make you laugh like I made you laugh yeah I was like how's their comida is their comida good right right like do you guys do fun stuff do they have good family meal for you or do they just feed you yeah what kind of what kind of activities do you guys do do you hang out you know like and it's you know it's like there's a weirdness to it because it is relationship but we get you know i think like chefs get possessive of their people you know what i mean of like you're like i did put you know you put blood sweat and tears into them but they also put it into you right you know what i mean i think that's a transition you understand more as you get into being a sous chef and a chef it's like you put everything into your people. And then like one day they're like, okay, now I'm going to go. It's a weird thing. It is. And it's really about how you handle it. Do you communicate properly? You know, the chef still might be hurt if they didn't see it coming. If they thought that you were the kind of you know chef sous chef who would be with them for the long haul then they still get upset But I do think it really important to handle it well and communicate And I you know I've been guilty of that. I've left a job and didn't communicate openly with my chef about why or, you know, always gave good notice. It's not like I quit a day out, you know, I'd give a month notice or three months, but I definitely left places where I could have communicated better with the chef and, you know, jeopardized a relationship that was very important to me. And it took me years to mend that relationship, but it was an important one. It was important to me that chef had poured a lot into me. So I put in the work, you know, it's like a relationship. You got to put in the work. You know what I mean? And I think like, you know, I'm at a point now where it's like, you know, I try to tell people when I bring them on, it's like, when you get to the point where you're ready to leave, like, come talk to me and I will try to get you where you want to go. Like if you are open and honest with me about it, then like I will do everything in my power to try to get you wherever you want to go. And if you're not, if you just leave, whatever, it's like, that's fine. That's fine too. You owe me nothing. Like the agreement was you'd work here for as long as you decide to work here. Right. And that while you worked here, you did the job up to the standard and you were a good member of the team. That's the deal. You owe me nothing else. And that's fair. So if you want to leave, you don't want to tell me where you're going. You don't want to tell me what you're doing. That's fine. But it's just like, for me, I'm always just like, why, why wouldn't you let me help you? Right. I can, you know what I mean? Like I'm offering to, you know, maybe you don't trust me in it, but it's like, you know what I mean? I have a track record of helping people do it, but it's like, if you want to get somewhere, the more you let me know, the more I can help you. Another one that I find really interesting is our restaurant relationships with the people we're shoulder to shoulder with. So before you're a chef, not necessarily the chef you work for or people leaving you as a chef, but the colleagues, the coworkers, your line mates, your friends, like those are people who, I mean, we trauma bond. I'm there for their successes. We're there for each other's failures. Like we go through such an emotional experience together. And then if somebody leaves the restaurant, it's like, okay, my best friend doesn't exist anymore. You know, it's like, it's, it's what we. Yeah. I always say you get to take like one or two with you from every restaurant. Like, you know, it's like, I think when you first start, you know, I mean, at least in my first kitchen job of like, where you're like, I'm going to be friends with all these people forever. Right. You know what I mean? Like, we're all going to be chefs. We're all going to be running restaurants. We're all so good. And I'm going to know all of them. And, you know, events for the rest of my life are going to be me and all these people who I came up with here. And there's some, right you know i mean there's some of that trickle down there's one or two who it's like it's crazy that you know i've known them my best friend you know of 20 years i met was my station partner at table 52 right and like we were station partners and then we lived together in my parents house and then we lived together with my cousin and then you know like i introduced him to his wife like you know i mean he was he was best man in my wedding i was best man in his wedding you know we've been friends for 20 years now just because like you know we're both named joe and we both worked a wood-fired oven together at table 52 and we were great station partners you know what i mean best station partner ever i think there were two or three guys who stood up at my wedding who were station partners of mine at one point you know and who became you know one of them my buddy erin it's like i'm the godfather of his of his daughter you know what i mean and we were just like we were station partners together erin and i were tornats together we were junior sues together and like at girl to go and it's just like it's wild like how intense those bonds are how you know deep those friendships go yeah and it's like you know there's still people where it's like we step back on the line you know like aaron and i had the opportunity we cooked together maybe a year and a half ago at an event he was there helping somebody out and i was there cooking and like we got on the line together and it was like i didn't miss a beat didn't miss a beat like it was the closest I felt to feeling 25 again. You know what I mean? Forever. Cause it was just like, we're just slanging pans, just digging, you know what I mean? This is, this is the shit. Yeah. I always think about that because like my sister's a property manager and she's got friends from companies that she worked at previously that she formed relationships with. They'd go out to dinner, they'd hang out and they maintain those relationships throughout their careers, even when they go to different companies. But when I've changed restaurants, it's almost like because of our hours and because we don't get to see, it's like, I'm working 12, 14 hours a day. If we don't, if our one day off that week doesn't line up, I'm never going to see you. And I might not see you for six months. Right. So you're like the closest people to me for two years. Like I can tell you everybody on my favorite line that I ever worked that I was super close with Ron Sue, Austin Baker, Eddie Dollinger, Michael Tyler, and me, the five of us, held it down, entree line at LaBernadine for a good, it was a heady two, three-year period. Rocked it out. All got good. We pushed each other. We challenged each other. We talked a lot of shit to each other. But we had such close bonds and relationships. And then somebody would leave. And it's like, you know, it's like a piece of you left and you got to get that dynamic back. But I almost never talked to that person again. Well, yeah, that's weird. You can't take them all with you, right? There's one that it's like, you know, like Joe was from Table 52 and my other buddy, John, there. You know what I mean? Those are the two guys who I still talk to a lot. And, you know, I hear from my chef there every once in a while. And then like my buddy Aaron from Girl and the Goat and my other buddy, Jan, there. But it's like there's one or two each restaurant that you're kind of able to take with you. Right. And it's like the rest, It's like everybody spreads out. And it's like, and then it's like, I still see him. I saw one of my cooks from belly Q was at an event I did Monday. And now he's, uh, he's like a chef instructor at, uh, Elgin community college, I think. And it was like, like probably haven't seen him in at least a year, but it's like, you know, it's still, it's like, it's that that, like, he's like, you know, like chef, give me a big hug. And like, you know, seeing those people. And it's like, you know, somebody was there. She was like, man, she's like, do you just know everybody at this event? It's like, well, I've just, I've been around. I've worked. Yeah. You know what I mean? I've been around for 20 years now and I worked at a lot of places and I worked with a lot of cooks. It's just like, it is a wild thing. It's a weird thing. And it's like, I will say at this point in my life, I've tried to do a better job of checking in on my people. Right. Maintaining them, putting in the work, putting in the work. Yes. Putting in the work for like my sous chefs who left or cooks who leave where it's like, you know, checking in on them before, you know, Cause I always tell them like, Hey, if you want to get a coffee, if you want to catch up, let me know. Like I'm always down. You know what I mean? But if I haven't heard from them for a while, trying to bridge that gap and be like, you know what? Like I can send them a text and be like, Hey, you want to like, how are you doing? And then, you know, usually if I send that text, they're like, Hey, you know, I've been meaning to catch up with you. Like, can we have coffee? Can we have lunch? And you know what I mean? Make the time because other people have done that for me. You know what I mean? From Stephanie to Tony to, you know, Kevin Bain to, you know, all sorts of people who, you know, I worked for over the years who have taken the time to like, have a coffee with me, have a meal with me. And, you know, when I needed advice or just needed to be, you know, talked off the edge a little bit. Right. And I can, I can honestly say like, there are some of my, some of my like old co-workers and line mates that I keep up with. Like my friend Ron, he opened him and another former co-worker actually opened a couple, actually, I think they're up to three or four in Atlanta now. And their first restaurant, Lazy Betty, has a Michelin star. And, you know, they're doing great. They've got a pizza place. They've got the fine dining place. Like, they're killing it. And we've kept in touch, you know, intermittently throughout the year on cookbook stuff, on pop-ups, on, hey, you'll be in New York. You know, all kind of stuff. And then other people, it's like, I ran into one of my guys, like, one of my old, like, my old saucier when I was on saute. I ran into him at the farmer's market. And I'm like, oh, my God. You know, it's like, you feel that love. You still feel that camaraderie and that closeness. And there's no feeling that can replace that because you see people when they are at their worst. Working a line with somebody is a test of character. And it shows you who that person is. Like when you're mad and angry and frustrated, do you lash out or are you still a good person? And that tells you everything that you need to know about a person. Are you going to lash out or are you going to start singing Neil Diamond songs to me in my ear that no one else can hear? or outcast or you know everybody's got their thing and that's like the beauty of it is like those people you know them you know who they are in their core like i know you i know you so well dogs you know what i mean you're like a dog man like you know i know they're still like when you've got your back up against the wall i know you will fight your way out and you will not be an asshole while you're doing it you know that says so much about somebody's character yeah and i know you'd lie for me in court if you had to. Absolutely. Another cool thing about the relationships, and this is like personal relationships and work relationships is like, how do you keep each other motivated in a restaurant? Like your coworkers in a restaurant, what are some of the ways that you and your people, you and your friends used to keep each other motivated during those busy, long, hard times of the year when you're just like getting no sleep, crazy busy at work? You know, how do you keep each other going? See, this is a funny thing. I feel like it's less hard to keep each other motivated during the busy times, right? Because you're just going. Like there's no time to think about it. When you're going, when you're busy all the time, you're going at a rate, right? You got shit to do. Everybody's got shit to do. We're just cranking. You know what I mean? We're working for each other. We're pushing. You're going at a speed. So I'm going to match that speed, right? When we're at pace, I think it's way, way harder to keep everybody motivated when the lulls come. And I think that was always the trick of it. You know what I mean? It's like, how do you keep people motivated when it slows down? Right. When you're not going a thousand miles an hour, when you know what I mean? You're running a Michelin star restaurant that's going to do 20 covers. How do you keep everybody up to like, Hey, we got to be as sharp as when we're doing 120. one. We're having a banging Saturday night and we got a full line. Now there's only four of us here. Right. You know, I remember we had one where it was like, it was negative 40 with the wind chill in Chicago. And so like we closed Spiagia, but we had to keep cafe open because part of the lease for the building was like one restaurant had to be open. Ah, okay. So I was like, shit. All right. So I was like, I was like, what are we going to do? So I was like, I didn't want to call any of cooks in because it was too cold. So I called my chefs and I was like Hey and one of them was my buddy Aaron from Girl on the Goat He was working with us at the time And so I said Hey we going to do managers only I was like I pick you guys up get everybody Ubers home You know we bring a dishwasher in. We'll send an Uber to his house to get them. And in front of the house, we'll just be managers. And so it was like, you know, we didn't know if we were going to do five people that night or whatever. I was like, well, we'll just go. We'll hang out. We'll have fun. And it'll just be like, when do you get to have three chefs? So it was like me, Aaron, my buddy, Brian, and I think my buddy Eric Lee's. So it was like three dudes I love hanging out with. And we just had this whole, the little cafe Spiaggia kitchen. It was a small kitchen. So we just had this little kitchen for the house manager. She was like, what are we going to do tonight? I'm like, I don't know if we're going to be busy or not, or what's going to happen, or if we're going to do anyone. I go, but we are going to do is I was like, turn the music up. I was like, and you're going to make everyone Aperol spritz. And we're going to pretend like we are at the beach today. And we're going drink Apidol Spritz and we're going to cook pasta. We're going to see what happens. We ended up getting crushed because we were the only restaurant that was open. Everybody else had closed. So it was, you know, I think we started the day with 10 covers. We ended up doing, we ended up doing like 80 or 90 people and like 70 of them were all industry people. Cause it was like, you know, I put up a picture or something like, Oh, like we're in here. And they're like, Oh great. I know where I can grab food. Oh, you're open. We're coming. You know what I mean? So it It was like everybody who's restaurants who closed all came at eight that night. It was like one of the funnest nights of my life. And it was just like just being stupid. Like we just had fun. You know what I mean? I think like those are the days where it's like finding like, all right, like what little – like we used to do like on really slow days we would do like bet on just weird things. We'd be like, all right, first take it out of the printer. What do you think it's going to be? What's the order going to be? What's the first dish out of the printer? You know what I mean? I'd take like whatever, a $50 bill or something. and I'd tuck it into the pass. I'd be like, first dish out of the printer, let's go tonight. And everybody would put a guess. Or we'd do over-under on covers. You know, Price is Right style. You know what I mean? You've got to guess the covers. Closest without going over. Closest without going over on covers would be another bet we'd roll. Once online gambling became a thing, we would do Sunday parlays where we'd bet like a crazy, like take 10 bucks, and bet like a seven-leg parlay. Oh, my gosh. And then if we won it, you know what I mean? We'd split it. we never won obviously of course but if you had you'd be all in the reward together see we used to do like i remember when when i was working at la bernadine like 11 madison it had become like more widely known that they would put a quote on the pass every day and so we're like you know what that's a great idea so during the busy season it's like you almost need something to distract you because you're just balls to the wall every day for a five-month stretch everybody's working six days. So it could be hard to kind of like, you're performing at a high level, it's the expectations are high. So it would be fun to kind of like, distract people a little bit. So Mike Tyler would like, put a quote up on the inside of the stainless steel behind where our cook surface was, and he'd put the blue tape around it. Or he put a photo up on the wall or something, just so that we all had a touch point. When you go from cooking at the stove to like grabbing your micros or your crunchies or whatever to finish your dish, you like turn around and you see that thing. You see that one thing and it makes you smile. And then you turn back to the stove and you keep going. And then during prep time, another thing we used to do, and I think this was Austin's kind of like main thing, Austin and Eddie, they would be like, hey, shout down the line. Hey, Cheatham, give me five derivatives of XYZ mother sauce. And we would play like culinary trivia. What are the fiend herbs? What are the, you know, it's like we would play like random culinary trivia. My favorite one that I stumped several people throughout my career with in Rapunzel. What was the vegetable that led to them giving up their daughter? No idea. Radishes. The old witch was growing radishes in her garden. I would have never got that one. We were, I wish we could say like, you know, sometimes we would, we would have very culinary based talks. You know what I mean? To be like, where would you work if you weren't working here now? where's one place you want to eat yeah one of our favorite my favorite was like what's your favorite three meals you ever had but like when it was like really bad and you really needed to get out of it we would play this game where it was like tell us a story you've never told anyone like this was like oh gee walking confessions and it didn't have to be like something like salacious it'd be like one time in fifth grade like i peed my pants and i lied about it i've never told anyone about it and it would be like it'd be hilarious because it'd be like random shit like that or like you know what I mean like you know like my sister got blamed for this when we were six and like I have never come forward that like I actually broke that like I've still never told my parents this day or whatever and people would tell stories like that it was so like I mean we would just be cracking out you know on the line dying just like telling these stupid stories but it just got you through our last part of the day Joe I want to do a little bit of Valentine's Day turn and burn. Oh. How do you feel about that? A little teasy and beasy. Mm-hmm. I have some either ors for you, okay? Okay, I'm ready. Okay, for Valentine's Day, if you weren't working, going out for a romantic dinner or spending a special night at home? At home. Okay. Well, without, for my kids. take working kids out of it yeah at home okay at home i'm the same way i think i'd rather be at home if you were cooking would you rather cook with that special someone or cook for that special someone for instead of having them in the kitchen with you yeah no it's yeah no it's yeah four are you cook them with you had sous chef steven over there i mean man knows his way around the kitchen so it's not like i used to be super no i don't i can't work with people at home in the kitchen but i'm starting to see the beauty and the fun at home like there's somebody else besides steven you know what i mean like you don't want to name his name to protect his identity i used to just be super closed off about anybody being in the kitchen with me at home like no i got this like please stay away it's shocking to hear but recently i have i've really started to see like how much fun it is to cook with my husband it's actually more fun than i think i realized before so i think i would cook with instead of just cooking for i want to i want all parties to be equally culpable here if you're out at dinner on valentine's day do you order desserts to share or separate? Always to share. I'm also though, like, I, you know, and I feel like it's so rarely I get to go out. I may, we're ordering all the desserts. Like, don't tell me you're full. Don't want to hear it. It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant. We're ordering all of the desserts. Like, you know what I mean? It doesn't matter how many, if there's two of us, if there's six of us, whatever. Like, send it. All of it. All of it. All of it. Okay. And I'll be like, I know you thought you heard me say some of it. I want all of it. The whole dessert menu. Okay. So that brings me to my next one. If you could only choose one, would it be chocolate souffle or chocolate lava cake? These are two Valentine's staples. Which is yours? This is my question, though. Is there a sauce for the souffle? Okay. Classic creme anglaise. Crack the top, pour the creme anglaise into the center of the souffle, traditional style. Also would wildly depend on where I'm at. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Okay. Assume they're both going to be executed well. A neighborhood restaurant on the south side, I'm going to go lava. Like I'm not trusting. You know what I mean? If somebody's decided they're going to throw a souffle on the menu. I've had a lava cake six blocks from my house. It's delicious. It slaps, dude. Scoop of vanilla ice cream on that bad boy. Let's go. I don't know. There's souffle game up at Ken's, but maybe it's all right. Okay, well, just assume that they're both going to be done well. Which is your cup of tea? They're both being done to the highest regard. I think the souffle is more special to me because it's something you don't see very often anymore. And I think like when you have a really good souffle is like mind blowing. You know what I mean? I think like texturally, you know, temperature wise, all of those things. I think it's just, you know what I mean? It's a classic for a reason. It's a perfect, you know what I mean? Dessert for a reason. So I'd probably go souffle. I have to assume you're going souffle. Oh, 100%. Oh, yeah. Je m'appelle Adrien. Adrien, thank you. Adrien. Okay. And final question. Valentine's Day gift, flowers or chocolate? Always flowers. Always flowers. You don't like the Walgreens box of Russell Stover assorted chocolates? I mean, one, there's always chocolate in my house, I would say. I always have a little chocolate sash going. Flowers. I think flowers are the best. I like flowers. is one of those things. I like buying flowers. Even you go to a farmer's market and they have awesome flowers. It's the best. It's such, you know what I mean? It's so frivolous and silly and I think that's why it's nice. What about you? Flowers or chocolates? Flowers, 100%. Chocolates would sit there for a year and I might nibble one or two of them. Flowers I will look at and smile throughout the day and when I think about them I will smile. I love flowers. Now if you want to send me chocolates I would I would be delighted. Why not? That's a nice thought. I might send Hillary some flowers, but I'm not sending you a damn thing. No, send her some chocolates. I can eat them all. It'll be great. I love it. Joe. Well, happy Valentine's day to you and yours. I hope you guys have a great service this weekend. Age. Happy Valentine's day to you. I hope it is filled with all the love and none of the two tops. Well, Well, happy Valentine's Day. That is it for this episode of The Chef's Cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube, where you can find full-length episodes of the show. And be sure to follow us at TheChef's Cut Pod on IG. For Joe Flam, I'm Adrienne Cheatham, and this has been The Chef's Cut. Life beyond the past.