Burn Fat Quickly with the Protein Sparing Modified Fast with Chelsea Blackbird

Fasting is a hormetic stressor. It means that it's a stressor on the body, but it's a stressor that our ancestors all experienced You know all of our ancestors they didn't have Hantries and refrigerators and unlimited access to food So if the hunt wasn't good if the harvest wasn't good They had to go periods of time with little to no food, right? And that was just something that we experienced and our physiology is actually really good at adapting to it Welcome back to the podcast in today's episode on being interviewed by my friend Chelsea Blackbird from the Christian Health Club podcast and Chelsea and I we start the podcast by talking about My inspiration for how I became a natural health doctor and how I started creating online health content and started my podcast and everything that I'm doing today and then we transition into the protein sparing modified fast, which is a phenomenal eating program for Burning visceral fat dangerous visceral fat that surrounds your organ systems how to burn that quickly and it is a Modified fast so you're not fully fasting. You're really focusing on a high protein But it is very calorie restricted and I go through the benefits of it in this episode. You guys are gonna really enjoy that I also have a great blog article all about the protein sparing modified fast That includes how to set it up as a meal plan and how to do it and I've had many people go through this with Phenomenal success so you should check that out on dr. Jockers.com just type in Protein sparing modified fast if you're intrigued about that after this this episode Be sure to check that out and of course check out Chelsea's great podcast. It's the Christian Health Club Podcast she is the Christian nutritionist so check that out as well She is a just a great source of information and inspiration For anybody that's looking to improve their health journey and and do it to honor God and honoring God with our bodies And so we really share we're like-minded from that perspective. That's really my inspiration behind my podcast and and my website is really to help empower and inspire people to reach their God-given health potential and so Check out the Christian Health Club podcast as well Of course if you need health coaching, we've got a great team at dr. Jockers.com our our lead functional nutrition practitioner Tara black as well as our Naturopath dr. Yvonne they are phenomenal They work with people all over the world and do virtual health consults with them And if you're interested in one-on-one health coaching be sure to check out Dr. Jockers.com the long-distance coaching and or you can email us at info at dr. Jockers.com And just put in the subject line health coaching and we'll follow up with you and get you set up for a free 15 minute consultation where you can Basically can consult with you know these phenomenal practitioners. They'll also send you an application as well as a Health questionnaire to to really get to know you better So if you're looking for that be sure to check us out and an email us at info at dr. Dr. Jockers.com of course leave a five-star review on this podcast Those reviews help us reach more people and impact more lives and share this episode with somebody that you know and that you care about And without further ado, let's go into the episode on how to burn fat quickly with the protein sparing modified fast This podcast is sponsored by our friends over at paleo Valley. 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It'll only take you 30 seconds a day You simply add a scoop to a glass of water or milk or smoothie like coconut milk or making a smoothie Or even your favorite baked goods recipe and make your day that much healthier It's USDA organic gluten-free non-gmo No fillers no cereal grains. It is low carb zero added sugars. No sugar alcohols or artificial sweeteners Keto friendly you guys are going to love this stuff guys. Check it out at paleo valley dot com forward slash Jockers and use of coupon code jockers my last name at checkout to save 15 off your order again That's paleo valley dot com forward slash jockers use of coupon code jockers at checkout to save 15 off today Hello, my friend Welcome back to the club. How are you today? We are diving into one of my favorite topics fasting And specifically a fasting strategy called the protein sparing modified fast This is something that I have been wanting to explore on the podcast for a long time But was recently inspired when I heard dr. David jockers talking about it Dr. Jockers is a fasting expert the author of the fasting transformation and someone i've admired for years in this holistic health space Because he boldly weaves his faith into his work and has been such an inspiration to me As I especially as I was starting out and filling that god that call from god to be a christian health practitioner So honored to have him here with us today to unpack this topic and share his wisdom Welcome dr. David jockers to the christian health club podcast Well, thanks so much. Chelsea. I love what you're doing and I love how you're you're just you're doing it all for the glory of god So uh, you you have a great message and a great voice Well, thank you so much for that It's it's people like you and dr. Axe who really just kind of helped pave that way and be that example So I really I do really appreciate that um as well Let's start by just having you share what initially led you to the holistic health space Yeah, I mean it's really a god story just like probably most of us But growing up my mom actually was studying become a massage therapist. She became a midwife. She became a natural path Later on as I was basically a teenager and kind of moving out of the house at that point She was always in holistic health. She always had a garden Um, I mean she was a crunchy mom before that became popular, right? So in the early 90s We were on a macrobiotic diet. My dad's like the complete opposite most picky eater. I know And he rebelled, you know against it and so so did we as kids. I was one of six kids But my mom was just really um, you know, she was just dedicated And so she taught me how food impacts my skin, you know, I my older brother had acne I didn't want to have acne. So she was like that's because he's eating processed sugar He's eating these processed chocolate bars. So I realized okay food is going to impact my appearance And also I was an athlete growing up and so she would say you need to eat She would make like steamed kale if you know anything about the macrobiotic diet It's like the most bland diet, but at that period of time in her research in the early 90s It was like the most popular thing and so she thought she doesn't teach that now But she thought that was that was good. And so um, you know, we had like pea soup and and and tofu and all this kind of stuff and so I'm like Why do I have to eat this and she would tell me You know, you got to eat your kale because that's actually going to help you have more energy You're gonna your bones are going to be stronger, right? This is going to help prevent injuries, you know So she would just go into performance and as an athlete Very competitive person. I was like whatever I've got to do. I'll eat more kale then I'll eat I'll eat whatever it takes to perform better. And so I just learned that what I put in my body Impact she would you know, whenever everybody would get sick. She'd make like a big thing of chicken soup She'd have us eating cloves of garlic So I just learned growing up that the food I put in my body impacts my performance and how I show up in life And so later on when my sports career was over and I was in college I became a personal trainer because I was into fitness. I was into I was training for sports And so that just was natural to me. Again, it came down to my activities impact My physical performance my mental performance. I realized working out regularly impacted. I felt better. I had you know, obviously better better mood um, was able to think sharper and clearer and so I became a trainer And then, um, you know, eventually, uh, I got into sports nutrition You know along those routes as well and then I had some health issues. I had irritable bowel syndrome in my early 20s and that actually led me into chiropractic school because um, I had irritable bowel pretty bad actually I was a personal trainer and I was eating six meals a day and Eating healthier than anybody I knew but it wasn't real healthy foods. It was you know, lots of bad protein powders and protein bars and um, not that you know, you can make some of these things better but back then I didn't know any better and um, you know, I have to have a huge Breakfast in the morning when I woke up. I'd have to have a protein shake before I went to bed I thought I had to do all those things to maintain my weight because I'm I've always been naturally thin and I was trying to Put on as much muscle as I could And so I thought I had to do that or I'd waste away And I wasn't sleeping well like most people in their, you know late teens early 20s. I was working a lot. I was in school and With all that said it all, you know, kind of hit the fan. I had irritable bowel syndrome And lost about 30 pounds even though I was still trying to eat um, and still trying to work out And that's when I came across a book. Uh, and it was the no grain diet by dr. Joe Mercola and I think it was like 2004 And uh, I read that book and there were person there were chiropractors at my gym that I was a trainer at and they just seemed To love what they were doing and they were into holistic health and nutrition and And so I thought, you know that I want to do that. And so anyways, I went to chiropractic school And um, just learned about how the body was created to heal itself, right? Doesn't need me help just no interference chiropractics focused around Removing interference from the spine from the nervous system, right? Because we have the the brain and spinal cord Travel through the spine and so remove the interference and allow the body to heal itself And so I was a chiropractor for years, but I was really into just teaching community health and so I I uh, opened my clinic in 2009 And um, you know, I was really just passionate about teaching people how to be healthy and well and a holistic lifestyle And I started also creating a lot of online health content And eventually that took a life of its own eventually I sold my clinic After I had hired doctors to to really run and operate it And um, you know, I just at this point just just create online health content Really helping people remove the interferences that are blocking their body's own Natural ability to heal and helping empower people to live out their god-given potential And so, you know, that's really how god brought me into it through my own health struggles and and really Just kind of the philosophy that my mom gave me growing up And so I would credit it to to my mom and uh and to and to the lord's leading Yeah, well, let's have a lot of us get here too is just, you know, coming up against brick walls and the conventional medical system and just not knowing what to do and finding these holistic Um options which and then just starts making you think and and I'm with you The reason I do what I do is just to help people feel better I feel like when you feel well, you serve well, you live better into your god-given potential and all he's called you To be so I absolutely appreciate that Let's talk about fasting. When did fasting kind of enter your world and start becoming part of what you did as your as a health practice Yeah, for sure because I was doing anything but fasting. I thought fasting was the worst thing ever and I kind of skipped this part But you know, I picked up that book the no grain diet Uh, and I started basically and this is before the term quote unquote paleo diet was around But I started focusing on you know, I realized I needed to make changes and so I started focusing on clean healthy meats fruits and vegetables And as I did that I noticed that I just wasn't as hungry between meals. I had natural satiation and that's what happens when you're on a high protein you get rid of the processed foods when you're a real food diet That has it's high in protein healthy fats and then you get fiber from the colorful fruits and vegetables And that'll help stabilize your blood sugar helps reduce cravings. And so I just noticed that I Wasn't as hungry. I didn't feel the need to constantly be eating all throughout the day And I was also busy. I was in graduate school and sometimes I would have 7 a.m classes and things like that And I actually noticed that I felt better. 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That's bondcharge.com with promo code Dr. Jockers all one word dr j o c k e r s to get 15 off today And that actually because it would fill my stomach it Turned off hunger. So it suppressed my hunger hormone. We all have this hormone in our stomach. That's released called ghrelin When the stomach is empty and so hydrating Ex distended the stomach my my stomach and inhibited ghrelin release And so I just felt naturally satiated And I remember there was a period of time here and this is really as I was healing from irritable bowel I would say the the first few months I I was able to get my blood sugar stable. I felt significantly better I was gaining gaining weight back and then I I kind of found this trick where I would not eat until I actually got hungry and and because I would focus on drinking a gallon of water between the time I woke up Right and roughly, you know sometime in the early afternoon It was I had this mindset back then and I don't necessarily teach this now, but It's not a bad practice for for some individuals and I I know for me I do really well when I I drink a ton of water throughout the day and I feel great doing it And for me, I would drink a gallon of water before I would eat any food and by doing that I just naturally didn't feel hungry And my I was still felt real mentally alert and I would take a little bit of salt with it And I would probably I would start getting hungry around two three o'clock in the afternoon Right and that's typically when I'd break my fast And then it was like that's when my hunger woke up, right as I broke my fast And I would eat a whole bunch of food. I mean, I don't know if you have boys, right? Teenage boys or anything, you know when you're in your early 20s and I was weightlifting and things like that I would eat a lot of calories And between like let's say three o'clock and eight o'clock, right? And I would just eat a ton of calories during that period of time and then I would not be hungry and I actually felt my best During that fasting window. I felt so good and I was at the top of my class Like I was straight a student in graduate school and part of it was I had these ketones. This is what happens when you fast Right is my body became so good at burning fat for fuel That and we can't get fatty acids across the blood brain barrier So our liver actually converts fatty acids into something called ketones, which are smaller water soluble molecules that Cross the blood brain barrier get into the brain. They down regulate brain inflammation They actually enhance mitochondrial function in the brain and all that to say that it actually helps us think sharper and clearer more creative better resilience better stress resilience emotional resilience and I just felt great right and I was able to perform at a really high level and so I was doing that and I had never heard the term intermittent fasting. I never heard that I thought it was I actually thought it was the water. I had never heard the term I really didn't know what a ketone was so I even though I was in graduate school studying advanced biochemistry We didn't really talk about ketones in our bloodstream, right? The only way the only time we actually learned about ketones was something called keto acidosis, which was a pathophysiological state that somebody with type 1 diabetes might end up getting because they if they don't produce insulin then They can actually you know, that's why they have to get insulin injections in order to get sugar into the Into the cells to be able to use it as an energy source. Otherwise, they can produce so many ketones that they create this This this pathology is disease state called keto acidosis. So You know, it's kind of one of the rules You know, there's always a Goldilocks zone for everything, right? Even things that we say are really good. It could be could be bad, right? If there's too much and so I had never heard those terms It was just a lifestyle that I was living and it wasn't until really about I Round the time I opened my clinic 2009 2010 that I heard it started hearing the term In fact, there was a guy brad pilon that I started following online this is back in like early youtube days and he he had this program called eat stop eat, right? And I was like wait, I think that's what I do and it was like eat till you're satiated Right eat as much as you want And his his strategy was don't even think about calories. Just eat until you're fully satiated He did have a higher protein kind of real food focus And and then you stop right and you stop for this, you know X amount of time and he would teach like a 16 hour fast and then and then you eat again um But that was early in the intermittent fasting research was coming out And that term started becoming more popularized and I was actually scared to teach it to my patients because I was like Like this is what I do But it kind of seems extreme So I don't really want to teach it to patients and I I didn't really start teaching it until I would say 2012 2013 took me a few years to actually start teaching people But it was something that I personally was doing I have been doing for years with great success And so that's that's really, uh, you know, that's really the the story there Wow, so is that what you still do basically is that kind of still your model and you fast Till the afternoon and then eat Yeah, I I I do it probably 95 of the time So I I usually break my fast somewhere between one o'clock And you know, I'll eat until seven or eight right a lot of times like like a day like today You know, I work out usually around one o'clock. So I end up breaking my fast. Let's say at two o'clock Okay, and then I usually try to be done eating by seven o'clock, right? But it just depends on, you know, all the activities and things like that with kids But that's usually what I'm doing every now and then like my wife and I do a breakfast kind of brunch date Uh every other friday and and she's gotten me to start eating. She's like, I really like it when you eat with me Um, and so, you know for my wife, I'll do it Um, the the issue I have is when I eat like like a brunch Um, see see I don't actually get hungry until I start eating like that's kind of the way my physiology is Is like I don't actually feel hunger until I actually start eating and then I then I eat a bunch, right? I'll eat a lot of calories at that point Um, and so if I were if I eat at let's say 9 30 10 o'clock when we're doing this brunch date Normally, I like to work out at one o'clock and I I just don't feel like I can work out I feel like I'll get nauseous, you know And so I end up having to push my workout down to like 4 30 or something like that Um, so it kind of affects what I'm doing with the schedule But now on on those date days I've kind of rearranged my schedule and everything In order to work out later in the afternoon rather than at at the one o'clock if I'm eating breakfast with her But um, I'm not against eating breakfast and if you want to eat in the morning That's great. That works well for you for me. I just something I've been doing a long time I feel great doing it if I didn't feel great. I would reassess what I was doing You know what I mean? I'm not I'm not bullish on something if it's not working. I think we need to rethink things I think fasting is a Hormetic stressor it means that it's a stressor on the body But it's a stressor that our ancestors all experienced, you know, all of our ancestors they didn't have pantries and refrigerators and unlimited access to food So if the hunt wasn't good if the harvest wasn't good, they had to go periods of time with little to no food Right and that was just something that we experienced and our physiology is actually really good at adapting to it There's all this fear about fasting and things like that in our society today and some of it is warranted It is a nuanced conversation But some of it's just way way way Overdone I think that's something in in the health world people just get too into like extremes And they lack the nuance the critical thinking to actually say well, you know, things need to be personalized and customized And depending on your overall stress load that you're experiencing Exercise that day may not be good Fasting that day may not be good or maybe it'll be amazing for you Like maybe that would be is exactly what the dose that you need, right? Is this particular type of fast or this particular um amount of exercise and so it's really trying to figure out you know, where you're at what your stress levels are and um providing the right dose Of hormetic stress to help you become more adaptable more resilient and stronger and fitter right in general in life harder to kill Right after that sure before Yeah, absolutely. Do you okay? So you work out? Right before you break your fast That's how I prefer to do it. Yeah, exactly. So I like to work out And then after my workout Sometimes I'll wait a little bit, but typically I'll break my fast right after that It's just it's like a nice break in my day. Sure. Um, you know, like a reset It's almost like I have two like on a natural working day. I have like two parts of that day So, you know, I'll work from let's say nine to one and then work out Right. It's about 30 minutes or so my workout and then have a great, you know, I usually make a protein shake with avocado and raw milk grass-fed raw milk And protein powders in there and things like that berries frozen berries Have this great protein shake and then, you know, basically Get back to work in a sense, you know at let's say two o'clock two fifteen or so Okay, and so you don't find that performance lags because you know being fat working out in a fasted state That's not a problem. Yeah, I actually feel better. Okay. I actually feel better and and one day a week I will do like a 20 to 24 hour fast And uh, usually it's usually on wednesdays. It just depends now with sports schedules and things like that sometimes it actually Has worked better on saturdays because we end up so busy running around with all the kids sports But for a while there it was wednesdays and I would do a lunch to lunch That's kind of my favorite way to do a 24 hour fast. I don't like to do dinner to dinner And there's several reasons I could go into on on that some people find that it works best for them But I like to I prefer a lunch to lunch fast So I would end up breaking the fast With a workout basically at one o'clock on thursday And I would feel amazing like I don't notice any Any lagging performance at all in fact, I actually feel to some degree. I feel better um, and the reason why is I just feel like During that fasting period Like my mitochondria are just getting more and more efficient And this is one of the great things about fasting is your body starts to break down old damaged mitochondria that's what produces all your cellular energy and It breaks those down and then replaces them with new healthier more stressed resilient mitochondria and ultimately the quality of our lives like the amount of physical mental Even emotional energy and resilience that we have if we look at it at a cellular level It's going to come down to the amount of high functioning stress resilient mitochondria in the cells of our body and I've been using this term resilience I think it's important. I think most people kind of an understanding of that but What it means is our ability to adapt to stress So like our body's always trying to find homeostasis or balance And so anything can be a stressor eating too much eating too little Change in temperature is a big stressor um, you know having to do some sort of performance or being scared of something exercising You know, there's so many different stressors Of course, you know, we think about all the different emotional stressors financial pressure relationship issues right all that kind of stuff And so all of those things pull us out of balance out of homeostasis So resilience is how quickly can we get back into a state of calmness balance right in a sense? And the more resilient we are the better we are at Moving away from homeostasis, but then getting back to it back to this state of balance Uh, the more stress we can handle in a in a day, right? So we have a greater bandwidth to handle things and still perform at a high level And so you think about it from like an athlete's perspective an athlete the best athletes They have to withstand You know a tremendous amount of stress and pressure and things like that and still perform at a high level You know a basketball player has got to be able to hit the free throw or hit the big shot at the end of the game when they've When they're worn down, right? And so it's kind of like that, you know, all of us are occupational athletes whether we are you know a mom school teacher businessman, you know a podcaster, right whatever it is we are all In a sense occupational athletes, right? We have to perform for somebody or something And and so we want to have that level of resilience too where even on a tough day even when things have been stressful You know, we're showing up at our best, right for the people around us and and uh, and the things that we're doing Absolutely I just want to take a moment to interrupt this podcast to tell you about one of my favorite podcasts I listened to it's called the doctor josh axe show hosted by my good friend dr. Josh axe Every week he shares how to balance your hormones restore your gut boost your energy and slow aging without relying on harsh medications Or quick fixes he shares both ancient Biblical practices and the latest breakthroughs in nutrition herbal remedies and lifestyle medicine And he sits down with world-renowned experts to have real unfiltered conversations. He won't hear anywhere else So if you're ready to take control of your health renew your energy and transform your mind body and spirit Tune into the dr. Josh axe show every monday and thursday wherever you get your podcasts Maybe this is a good time to talk about autophagy And what that is and how fasting promotes that and then maybe hearing a bit will work our way into the protein sparing modified fast Yeah, well autophagy is basically what I was just explaining where the body is able to break down these old damage I mentioned mitochondria. We call that mitophagy It's a specific autophagy of the mitochondria and autophagy just means self eating So basically we're all under this state of oxidative stress And that is kind of this internal rusting or browning effect think about an apple when you leave it out Exposed to oxygen after you take a bite in it. It starts to brown, right? Um, that is oxidation or or how metal rusts. Well, this is happening within the cells of our body And when we have too much oxidation going on that drives inflammation, right? And of course inflammation we might start feeling in our body So we don't feel the oxidation but over time too much oxidation results in inflammation which could result in joint pain It could result in brain fog. It could result in metabolic dysfunction, right? Thyroid issues where we have low energy our hair starts thinning and falling out. We we can't lose weight Could result in skin rashes could result in, you know, any number of things urinary tract infections All these are different types of things and so Basically what we've got to do is have a healthy balance healthy oxidative stress balance And so oxidative stress one of the things it does is it breaks down the proteins the different organelles the different organs within the cells of our body And so our body has a natural cleansing process So all of us are exposed to oxidation. You're not going to get rid of it But we should be getting rid of the the result the um the damage that's done by the oxidation by undergoing this cellular recycling this autophagy And so the only way that really gets turned on at a high enough level to make a difference in the cells of our body Is our the hormone insulin has to go down An insulin comes out whenever our blood sugar is elevated And so when is your blood sugar elevated? Typically it's we're thinking about when we eat, right? So when we're eating foods and certain foods are more insulogenic meaning they promote more insulin release Than other foods process foods for example process carbohydrates You know all your your your snacks your pretzels chips cookies Candy, you know all that stuff, of course, you know your your drinks your um Your soft drinks, right any any sort of like sugar flavored drink Is it going to spike your blood sugar and your insulin levels highly insulogenic, right? Also, there's whole food carbs as well that you don't get the spike, right? But you're still going to get an increase in in insulin your fruit your Sarchic carbohydrates, of course breads all that kind of stuff the grains All that's going to elevate your blood sugar And your insulin levels and so that's fine during the you know during a meal or maybe an hour after the meal or two hours after the meal Maybe but you want to get periods of time you want to get a good amount of time on a regular basis with insulin low below a certain critical threshold And one of the best ways to do that, of course is obviously removing as much Of the ultra process foods as possible going on more of a whole real food based diet You know, there's a couple other things eating a high, you know high protein healthy fat You know real food based carbohydrate diet Um is gonna is gonna help help you have more blood sugar stabilization Produce those ketones keep insulin down a lot of great benefits there and then taking longer periods of time between meals or at least One long period which is what intermittent fasting does and so intermittent fasting like I was talking about where let's say I finished dinner at 7 p.m. And I don't eat till 1 p.m. The next day or 2 p.m. It's like an 18 and 19 hour fast That's a really good period of time to get that insulin down and keep it down For an extended period of time and while it's down that's when my body starts It's like a trigger in the body as insulin drops below a certain threshold like just below that line Then the body says, okay. Well now I need to start breaking down stored sugar In my liver and my muscles we call that glycogen to to help fuel the brain But I also need to start breaking down fat and using that as a fuel source And i'm gonna need some protein I need some proteins to rebuild white blood cells to rebuild all the different Cellular organelles and so i'm gonna start breaking down. This is what's so interesting about the innate intelligence god put within us Is it knows what areas of the cell? Are not functioning well and it will start to break down those proteins and Basically recycle them and make new cellular organelles And that's kind of the cellular refreshing and rejuvenation that takes place during this period of time But we need in order for that to happen. We need to have low levels of insulin For a period of time, you know several hours In order for that process to start to pick up and the longer we're going with low insulin the more of that's going on Now, of course, we need to eat obviously right and we need insulin as well, right? And so there's a delicate balance between Being in a state where we're undergoing this cellular rejuvenation and also Having insulin levels having healthy high or higher insulin levels for for a short period of time To tell the body we're in it. We're not in a famine And so our ancestors would undergo periods of time of what we call feast famine, right? So when the harvest was good when the Hunt was good they would eat and they would eat real well, right? And they would have higher amounts of insulin and that would tell the body. Okay. We're in a time of feasting or food is plentiful And that's good for promoting hormones associated with fertility for example, right? Because you know, that's just a Innatural trigger to say hey, this is this is a healthy environment to bring children into right versus Extended times of famine Those hormones start to go down those sex hormones that are associated with fertility start going down now We don't want that on a regular basis. You know, we want to have healthy hormones and this is where The feast famine comes in Where the idea is we eat and we eat really well when we're eating Okay, so we eat sufficient calories But then we also undergo periods of time without eating Where we're also telling the body, okay Now it's time of quote-unquote famine short term famine now we get that cellular rejuvenation that cellular cleanup And so what that looks like for each individual can be nuanced It can be you know, it's dose dependent in a sense, right? Just like, you know, we shouldn't be giving the same, you know necessarily the same Supplement dose for each individual or the same, you know, if you're if you're a prescribing physician You wouldn't want to give the same medication dose for a 300 pound person as you would for, you know, a 80 pound child, right? You know, the dose of that feast famine can look different for each individual but I think it's something that getting that and triggering autophagy and and Elevating blood ketones. I think is a critical thing. It's you almost have to look at like a nutrient, right? Just like we need to optimize our vitamin D levels Okay, we can do that through sun or through supplements. Well, we also need to optimize our autophagy and ketones, right? And make sure we've got enough of that in our system as well to get these desired cellular rejuvenation effects Yeah, I think a lot of people are under the impression that you can only achieve autophagy With you know, something beyond like a 24 hour fast and I'm like, well, that's the case Then we would never have we would never be self-cleaning. You would never be eating, right? You could never do it. And so But what you're saying and I'm if I'm hearing you correctly and how I understand it is that Like you said, if you just come below this kind of insulin threshold, you're signaling the body like this is a time We're not eating It's cleanup time It's time, you know that we can even do that in between meals if we say we have four to five hours between meals We're going to engage in a little bit of that Cleanup process, but when we do have that nice long chunk of time, it's going to Obviously better a more thorough cleansing time without autophagy, correct Yeah, 100% so we when people will say stuff like well, it has to be you know, a three day fast in order to trigger autophagy It depends on the person's baseline level of insulin sensitivity So if you were to take the average american where they're Fasting insulin levels are really high, right because they have insulin resistance from eating a high processed food diet But that person it might take Three days to get to a the same level of autophagy that for me a 16 hour fast I get right because my body's very insulin sensitive. So again, it's it's all about It's about insulin. So when insulin is high, it's blocking autophagy. It's blocking fat burning, right? You're not going to burn fat. You're not going to you're not going to get the autophagy for some individuals It's going to take a long time of fasting which and that's uncomfortable for them because When insulin is high, you don't burn fat. So what are you burning? Right, like, you know, you only had a certain amount of sugar In your system for a period of time. So those are the people that Can often really struggle with an extended fast too. This is why I don't recommend somebody who's very overweight very insulin resistant Immediately go into a fast. They could it's kind of like somebody Going out and running, you know a 10k, right when they've never exercised, right? They could do it But they're going to be really sore. Yeah, they're not going to feel good. It's not going to be the great experience Rather than building up kind of a baseline level of fitness and then going out and doing that And so that's that's typically the way the the best approach to it And so it's going to be again dose dependent on the individual based on where their Insulin sensitivity is Sure, and I think, you know intermittent fasting is a knife stair step or two Somebody that is wanting to do like maybe a longer 24 hour fast like, you know, work your way up with your intermittent fast and then And then get there. Well, let's talk about protein sparing modified fast I I'm so intrigued by This strategy. So tell us what it is and then just talk about how we go about it and why it's good and who it's good for Yeah, for sure. Well protein sparing modified fast is a form of a partial fast And so of course fasting just means going without right and so, you know, typically, you know When people are doing more extended fasting, let's say three or five day fasts or seven day fasts They're doing a water fast or water salt water fast, maybe with salt But obviously the compliance level is really low. It's you know, you got to have a high level of motivation You got to push through a lot of uncomfortability to do that protein sparing modified fast is a great approach for a lot of people because You can especially if your goal is to lose weight Right, you can really lose weight doing this and it helps quench satiety. Most of the people I'll go through this Don't feel as hungry. They don't have cravings things like that And that's because you're sparing the protein in a sense, right? You're fasting more so from the carbs and the fat And eating a high protein diet. So roughly You know, they say basically around 40 percent typical partial fast about 40 percent or so of The total, you know, your total calories that you would normally eat So the average individual is eating around 2000 calories 2000 to 2500 So with the protein sparing modified fast is roughly 800 to 1000 calories a day And you're eating a high protein diet, right? So you're eating roughly 125 to 150 grams of protein In that in that day. And so there's four calories per gram of protein. So 150 times four is roughly 600 calories Of protein and then you're keeping your net carbs. So fiber. We're not counting here That's your total carbs minus fiber And we're keeping that to Under 30 grams a day And then we're also keeping your total fat to under 30 grams a day Now, I don't typically recommend this long term because very low low fat diets like that you can end up having You know fat soluble nutrient deficiencies things like that So I don't think it's a great long term plan, but it's something that you can implement you can Either use it like I know I know a lot of people use it one day a week or two days a week Or they'll do, you know, like a seven to 14 day protein sparing modified fast in order to lose in order to drop 10 15 pounds, right? And there's people that are able to do that the great thing about the protein again is it stops the cravings hunger and protein itself actually helps keep your metabolism firing high because there's a thermogenic effect of breaking down protein That you end up expending more calories in order to process it into nutrients that you can use In 2026, I'm not just getting back into my normal healthy routine I'm actually helping my body turn back the clock Now you might not know this but the things that happen to our body as we get older stiff joints in the morning longer recovery from the gym Hair thinning nails breaking even skin losing that smooth glow These can all be fixed they happen because your body's collagen levels start to naturally decline beginning as early as your mid 20s You see collagen is often referred to as the glue that holds our bodies together So you can imagine that a decline in collagen production has some big impacts on your body But that's where bubs natural collagen peptides come in you see bubs Helps restore collagen levels closer to what your body naturally had in its youth So your joints feel stronger your hair and nails grow healthier and your skin looks smoother And it's super easy to use just mix bubs into your coffee smoothie or juice each morning It's tasteless odorless and dissolves instantly No clumping no weird aftertaste on top of that bubs is built to the highest standard No junk zero sugars sweeteners or fillers. It's third party tested nsf certified for sport whole 30 approved and Sustainably sourced from grass-fed pasture raised cattle It's trusted by over 100,000 customers and was named the best collagen of 2024 by health.com So live better longer for a limited time only our listeners are getting 20 off at bubs naturals by using the code Dr. Jockers dr j o c k e r s at checkout So just head to bubs bubs naturals.com and use the code Dr. Jockers and you're all set after you purchase. They'll ask you where you heard about them Please support our show and tell them our show sent you And then on top of that in order to break it into amino acids basically and then on top of that It helps preserve lean body tissue Right and you can work out during this and so like typically if somebody's doing a seven day fast water fast I'm not going to have them work out. I'll have them walk Right, but I'm not going to have them do strength training with this You can still do strength training and not lose muscle mass and your body will just go in and Break down body fat and so that's kind of the benefit of this protein sparing modified fast So you can do it with two or three meals a day That's I either recommend two or three depends on what you're used to if you're used if you're somebody It's used to eating two meals a day Then I would say just continue with that right continue Let's say you eat a meal at 12 and you eat a meal at six Right you continue with that and you focus on basically you're getting 60 to 75 grams of protein in each of those meals and you're getting roughly 10 to 15 grams of net carbs and 10 to 15 grams of fat in each of those meals If you're doing three meals a day like a breakfast lunch dinner kind of thing Then you just break it up, you know to where you're getting basically 40 to 50 grams of protein In each of those meals eight to 10 grams of net carbs eight to 10 grams of fat in those meals And I would say the hardest thing about the protein sparing modified fast For the people that are doing it is actually getting the protein without the fat Because you know your healthy whole food proteins typically have A good amount of healthy fats the way God designed it and so it's like you have to like eggs for example, right? You've got to do egg whites, which notoriously. I hate that idea because the yolk is why That's not all the leaks are in the egg I know it's for all the all the fats all but nutrients and things like that are But I mean if you're going to follow that plan you you can't get those all that fat that's in there Um, hopefully somebody in your family will enjoy it. Maybe an animal, right or something like that so you're not just throwing out those yolks and then chicken breast of course You think about a bodybuilders diet Particularly as they you know bodybuilders typically go through multiple stages where they're trying to bulk up And then all of a sudden they like get really lean Like and they basically do this protein sparing modified fast for like a month before their competition Um, and that gets them really lean and they'll drop You know 15 body fat, right? In some cases, right 10% body fat in that in the course of that month now. They won't feel great Uh, but they're also doing excessive training and and and and and whatnot for this And so they're you know, they're high level athletes You can actually do this and feel really good if you do it, right? and so Yeah, basically, uh, that's how I broke it down was uh Yeah, um, that's how that's how you would do it Um, so you're doing chicken breast. You're doing lean lean pieces of protein You know, I've heard um, venesis spina as a friend of mine. She uh, she has a optimal protein podcast and she was telling me she's She's very lean too. Like I've actually never done this because for me. I'm always trying to maintain my weight So I personally have never done it. I've just heard from a lot of people that have done this And she was telling me she's also very lean that she feels really good with it She's able to continue to train and she'll actually take Ground beef, right cook it and then she'll drain it, right and she'll help basically Will help pull out as much of the fat as possible And so that's one way she's able to get red meat into her diet during this because red meat obviously is more fatty cut of meat So that's how she does it. She does things like shrimp and stuff like that She does a lot of fish. She did a lot of white fish especially because that's lower in fat So those are some of the key things and of course you can do some vegetables non-starchy vegetables you know salads without without dressing or maybe like a lemon juice dressing and um You can do your cruciferous vegetables asparagus broccoli Kale collard greens things like that. You can do all of that as well It's it's such a different frame of mind when you see because most of us are in a lower carb You know, we kind of maintain a lower carb diet and a higher fat diet So to think of taking out the fats that sounds so boring and it just really makes you appreciate The joy and the flavor the taste of fat because yeah the the primary foods you would eat in this protein spring modified fast of the egg whites chicken, you know Like you said the fish like a low fat yogurt or cottage cheese, but you'd even have to be kind of careful with that and not as something I don't ever recommend anybody like that free Greek yogurt. Yep. Yes something like that I'm like god did not make cows with low fat udders y'all. So I'm always recommending the full fat But in this case this would be the case for it um and like you said, I think one of the biggest critiques of Fasting for a lot of people is that you know, it's breaking down muscle and so this is just a nice Solution for that for people that want to do a longer fast But like you said also helps keep some of that satiety Level up and it's just a really good strategy. Do you is there a difference? And real quick I want to address that people say, you know fasting breaks down muscle and I would say actually That it's not the fasting that breaks down muscle because when you fast your insulin goes down when insulin goes down You have this counteractive hormone called growth hormone that elevates right so Growth hormone is your quintessential anti-aging hormone. It helps to preserve lean body tissue So muscle bone it tells your body hold on to that muscle hold on to that bone helps turn up fat burning It helps to repair collagen tissue. So you have better skin hair nails all of that It's it's the anti-aging hormone people have spent thousands of dollars to get growth hormone Injections for anti-aging your body produces a lot of it when insulin is down particularly at night when you're sleeping Which is one of the reasons why I like the the uh lunch to lunch fast to get more growth hormone release at night um, and so Growth hormone will preserve the lean body tissue However, if you're doing an extended fast you stop training and what the muscle tissue needs is of course it does need nutrients But it also needs an anabolic environment The anabolic environment actually growth hormone is a part of that That anabolic environment and then it also needs mechanical stress so We actually need that mechanical loading In order to basically maintain muscle and some people lose muscle faster than others my body type It's super easy for me to run run long distances Like I could just never train get out and just run a long distance But it's harder for me to maintain muscle mass And so I need good amount of mechanical like I need to lift heavy weights on a regular basis to maintain my muscle mass There's other people like for example my chiropractor that I see out here. This guy just looks at a weight and he's like You know ripped. He was a bodybuilder, right? It's like he needs very little training and he and he puts on muscle But he can't run long distance, you know, I mean like he tires out really quick And so every there's unique body types Um, but it's not the actual fasting That causes us to to lose the muscle tissue. It's actually just Probably not training hard, you know, we're not giving the mechanical stress. I mean, I don't recommend, you know training Intensely if you're doing a five or seven day fast, you know what I mean? And so that lack of training will cause you to lose that muscle Okay, good. Thanks for clearing that up What about uh, is there a difference when for men or women doing this in as far as how much protein Or, you know carbs or we kind of keep that about the same Yeah, it's really roughly about the same. Um, you know, typically For for women, usually you're doing more of the 800 calories, right? So there's kind of two modifications for it 800 to 1000 calories But a woman who's very active maybe doing a lot of training during that period of time can go up to a thousand calories and still get great results Okay, what about gluconeogenesis, you know for eating all this protein we're keeping our Our carbs and our fat low does that play into this in any way? Yes, so the gluconeogenesis just means basically creating glucose out of non-glucose sources And so the body can create glucose out of all kinds of things amino acids It can it can create it out of fatty acids, right the glycerol backbone um, so Basically you're more or less. I mean, yeah, your body's going to do whatever it can to keep your blood sugar nice and stable Okay, and so that's just a normal homeostatic mechanism, right? And we don't really need to worry about that the protein sparing modified fats will get you into ketosis for sure Um, you know and you can measure that if you want But your body has to be able to burn a good amount of fat during that period of time And of course, like I said, you can't get the brain the neurons can run They need sugar so they need glucose, which is why we undergo gluconeogenesis to preserve the brain But the brain actually 10 of our metabolic rate is taken up in the brain because they're so mitochondrial dense the neurons So the brain needs a continual supply of glucose But also we're not if we're not consuming a very low carb and a calorie restricted diet like this It's not going to get enough. So this is why it has to turn the fat into ketones And those ketones can supply the other 50 percent of the neurons energy needs And those ketones also act as what we call epigenetic modulators where they actually have a really positive effect on the genetic expression of the neurons So those neurons will actually be able to function better. We talked about mitochondrial function, right? autophagy there mitochondrial biogenesis as well where we form more Healthy mitochondria in the brain Also ketones actually help to balance the glutamate to GABA ratio in the brain. So glutamate is our excitatory Transmitter in the brain. So it helps us think sharply and quickly think about it like a gas pedal when you're driving a car GABA is the brakes. It helps us be calm, right? To be able to focus on one thing have good focus It helps us to be relaxed, right? We need to balance a both, right? We don't want too much of either When people are inflamed when they have chronic inflammation We get excess Neuro excitatory activity in the brain this means too much glutamate and that x that excess excitation too much excitation Actually ends up causing neurons to die. We call this neuro excitotoxicity. It's this phenol this physiological mechanism It's almost like dominoes one cell gets overly excited To the point where it dies and then it spills out its chemical content Right and that then poisons the next neuron next to it and next to it and it's like a domino effect going down So ketones actually come in and they help to balance that glutamate to GABA Ratio which helps us think sharply and quickly but also have the commoness So we're able to have just better function better again. We talked about resilience, right? We want to be able to react quickly and think sharply and quickly, but we don't want too much anxiety Right, we don't want to get too irritable, right? You have kids, right? So it's like, you know, right real quick You know, we don't want to be too too quick to anger in our relationships, right? Biblical principles, right? Um, and so having a healthy glutamate to GABA ratio helps us to be more calm relax But also be able to be a critical thinker as well So we want to have that ratio and that's what what the ketones help with and so this is why so many people that are doing either a protein sparing modified fast or you know, any sort of partial fast a bone broth fast green juice fast Even in some cases that Daniel fast if you're under eating on calories, you're going to get some some uh, ketone production Right or doing intermittent fasting. They feel like a lot more calm relaxed Um, and that's why is that glutamate to GABA ratio? And so so anyways, I think whenever we're talking about fasting We should always go into brain health effects, right? So yeah, absolutely Well, I just want to interrupt this podcast for a very important public service announcement One of the most dangerous things you may be doing for your health is cooking a healthy meal at home I know that sounds crazy But here's what the science says most of us are unknowingly swallowing thousands of shreds of microplastic With every stir-fry egg scrambler veggie saute now, where's it coming from your non-stick pan? 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It's made with swiss engineered ceramic and it's truly non-toxic It cooks beautifully cleans easily and most importantly it doesn't poison your food If you're serious about reducing your toxic load, this is one upgrade I highly recommend right now the p600 cookware is 50 off and for a limited time You can take an extra 20 off with the code safe20 at checkout just head to chefs foundry.com forward slash jokers to claim your discount now But stock is limited and this bonus discount could end at any time So use the code safe 20 s a f e 20 at chefs foundry all one word chefs Foundry.com forward slash jokers before this offer disappears your body will thank you But so will your family You know when we just think of biblical fasting spiritual fasting and how it all works together On a physical level a mental level and then a spiritual level because I I do feel like that opening that clearing of the mind Just is what helps us make us more receptive to hearing the lord and tuning into uh what he would have for us so Uh, yeah, of course he would make yeah 100. I mean it definitely you can explain it from a physiological perspective because there's lots of people From all all walks of life that I've noticed, you know breakthroughs when they undergo this fast No, I think from a biblical perspective We are saying more of you god less of me right and so where i'm denying the desires of the flesh That's what we're doing as christians from a biblical perspective Right and then we're getting all these other great benefits, you know for our physical body right But there's of course there's people out there that you know are a different face that have said Oh, you know, I just noticed that I had this You know more remarkable intuition and this creativity and I think you know even people of all faith I think it's just a physiological mechanism that takes place when we have that really calm brain with Minimal and you think about like a radio station with no feedback like it's like you can hear it perfectly Yeah, most of us are walking around on a day-to-day basis with lots of static We're trying to get the radio station tuned in But it's like we can barely get it, you know, you've ever None of us use radios anymore, but back in the day. It's like we're trying to get that just right And I was like, oh, I can bear I can hear it now and then all of a sudden it would tune out And so it's kind of like that that's what most people are walking around with that going on in their brain and When we fast we get the perfect we're tuning in just right And so we're getting that the right message And that can result in breakthroughs right creative breakthroughs Um better memory recalling, you know, different things learning at a higher level. So there's so many great benefits to it Absolutely, let's circle back real quick to autophagy and how that works with the protein sparing modified fast because One thing we you know talk about a lot in the holistic health world is Um and when it comes to fasting is how amino acids will Break that autophagy kind of signal that off. So how does that? How does that all work together? Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's what I taught for years as well And uh, like the like i'm an advocate of uh the prolon five-day fasting mimicking diet And what they do is they have a low protein Approach right and so it's like basically 10 of the calories and they have all their foods in a box You can buy this five-day fasting mimicking diet And so that's what most of us thought Um, however, there's new research out actually that's showing that that may not be the case now in a normal caloric diet Or a hyper caloric diet where you're eating more than what your body needs or you're eating the normal amount that your body needs Then the higher amounts of protein and amino acids will stimulate the m-tor pathway Which is associated with building and growth. It's the opposite of the amp k pathway, which is associated with with autophagy um, and so I'm still a big advocate of a high protein diet because we need activation of m-tor right. I think that's super important The where the protein sparing modified fast comes in is the fact that it's it is Low calorie that you're in a pretty significant caloric deficit So because of that you're not stimulating m-tor enough to block autophagy And that's really kind of where the magic happens there. In fact, there was research This is clinical nutrition august 2025. It just came out in clinical nutrition um, it was done at the school of life sciences at the university of knottingham in the uk And the title of this you can look it up if you haven't seen it Effects of fasting mimicking diets with low and high protein content on cardiometabolic health and autophagy It was a randomized parallel group study for seven days. So they had a low protein group that consumed 850 calories. So remember we talked about 800 to 1,000 calories So the low protein group was basically doing the prolon five-day fasting mimicking diet more or less I don't know if that's exactly what they were doing, but the macronutrients were pretty similar 45 fat 10 protein So roughly about 21 grams of protein uh a day And then the high protein group was doing the same amount of calories 850 calories They were doing 25 fat 30 protein so roughly 64 grams of protein. So when I teach a fasting mimicking diet I'm sorry the protein sparing modified fast. I'm teaching a lot more protein than that but the pro that amount of protein according to the Prolon and the fasting mimicking diet group would say they would say that's too much You're gonna you're going to to stimulate mTOR and that nutrient sensing pathway is going to stop autophagy However in this study what they found was that Both groups the low protein and high protein group reduced body weight and fat mass but only the high protein fasting mimicking diet reduced visceral fat mass relative to the control group so they had 16 people in a control group that you know, we're just basically following their normal diet 15 and low protein 15 and high high protein So the high protein group reduced visceral fat Okay, so that was important Both of the fasting mimicking diets reduced their plasma glucose by 10 relative to the control So both had a drop in blood sugar And the increase in ketones was higher in the low protein, right? So ketones were elevated more in the low protein group But again, there was this reduction in visceral fat in the high protein group And then also the heart rate variability, which is kind of a sign of stress resilience As well as the gut microbiome diversity and the circulating triglycerides and saturated fatty acids were improved only in the high protein group Right, so they saw improvements in the heart rate variability gut microbiome diversity, which is a sign of a more resilient gut Circulating triglycerides is something we want to get down your triglycerides because that tells us Basically your body's good at burning fat for fuel and then both fasting mimicking diets induced autophagy at the molecular level So that was key the conclusion said both both of the groups promoted cardiometabolic health and induction of autophagy with the high protein group conferring novel benefits and body comp circulating lipid profiles heart rate variability and gut microbiome health So it's interesting. Obviously, you know, that was only What uh 46 people in that study. So, you know, we should do longer studies, but That contradicts that idea that you don't get autophagy on a higher protein calorie restricted diet So that's the key there Right high protein calorie restricted diet Um, and that was able to induce that autophagy. Oh, I love it. I have a I'm a kind of a fan of using essential amino acid supplementation and a lot of people that I work with are and So that would mean even if you are taking your essential amino acid supplementation in a fasted state Uh, that that's not necessarily knocking out your autophagy Correct. Yeah And we don't know enough, you know, maybe it's reducing it a little bit But like we don't know enough but obviously based on this study here, you know, it's telling us that You can do this seven day. It's a calorie restricted state, right? So again, that's kind of where the the key there is Right is the fact that you were it that these people were in a calorie restricted state Um, but you know with that said Well, I just want to take a moment to interrupt this podcast to remind you that Americans are spending an average of 90% of their time indoors And most people don't know this but indoor air can be up to 100 times more polluted than outdoor air But now you can breathe easy with air doctor the award-winning air purifier that eliminates 99.99% Of dangerous contaminants like allergens viruses smoke gases mold spores and more This is what I personally use in my house because air doctor was voted the best air purifier by newsweek So it's no surprise that 98 of air doctor customers agree Their homes air feels cleaner safer and healthier and unlike other purifiers air doctor captures invisible particles 100 times smaller than standard HEPA filters you can head to air doctor pro dot com Use the promo code nutrition to get up to 300 off today and air doctor comes with a 30 day money back guarantee Plus a three year warranty. That's an $84 value for free get this exclusive podcast only offer now at air doctor pro dot com that's a i r doc pr o dot com use a promo code nutrition today People that are following a higher protein diet in general again, you can exercise more right? So like when you're doing the fasting mimicking diet, they don't recommend the prolon five day fasting mimicking diet You're not getting the protein so we don't recommend resistance training right now period time whereas I know a lot of people that have done the Protein sparing modified fast that continue to weight train and they feel great during their workouts Ah, that's so cool. I'm glad we talked about that study. That is really interesting and it opens up a lot of doors But yeah, I think it is the you know the low calorie like you said is the key and that is what is supporting the autophagy so I like for people to hear that it's not just about fasting that supporting autophagy Low calories kind of part of that but exercising, you know, there's those other factors that really help support Yeah, for sure and and really things that help keep your insulin levels stable. So The time so so you're under going to undergo autophagy And and higher fat burning when your insulin levels get below a certain threshold Now we don't have that mapped out as far as what that threshold is in functional medicine when we do a fasting Insulin test So somebody does like a 12 to 14 hour overnight fast. Maybe they finish dinner at let's say 7 p.m And they get their blood drawn at 8 a.m. The next day. We want to see that under six Right and so there's hypothesis that perhaps, you know that under six is kind of like the place where you know Your body starts really undergoing more fat burning, right? Perhaps autophagy starts getting stimulated I have very good insulin sensitivity. So After a big meal my fasting insulin will drop under six within eight hours, right? For somebody else it might take two days right to get it under there three days five days in some cases, right? For others it might take 24 hours to get under, you know, a certain amount And so really things that help improve your insulin sensitivity So where to where your body doesn't have to produce a lot of insulin when you eat food That is going to help your autophagy. So good sleep. We know plays a big role with that The better you sleep the better your insulin sensitivity regular exercise good movement throughout the day So I always say there's a difference between movement and exercise movement is going out taking a walk, right? Just getting regular movement walking around your house Exercise would be something higher intensity getting your heart rate up. So it could be, you know running intervals or it could be strength training weight training So doing a combination of both of those things Sana has been shown to improve insulin sensitivity getting in a sauna Getting in a cold plunge has actually been shown or doing a cold like 30 second cold shower at the end of your shower Has been shown to improve supplements like berberine Drinking green tea drinking coffee for some individuals or for all most individuals actually Coffee has been shown to help improve blood sugar. Of course. There's some people that are very slow caffeine metabolizers and either need a reduced dose of Coffee or no coffee, right? You want to get the right type of coffee? You want to get mold-free? You know because that could that could trigger you But you know, there are different types of herbal teas can be really beneficial apple cider vinegar is amazing the acetic acid in there helps feed the mitochondria You know in your gut and that helps to Basically improve your fat burning and so Improves your microbiome so apple cider vinegar taking apple cider vinegar before meals has been shown to improve the glycemic impact Or if you don't do apple cider vinegar, lemon or lime lemon juice lime juice can be can be beneficial eating protein first in a meal. So if you have a meal Like one of my favorite meals. I know you're going to ask about this So one of my favorite meals, you know is I like to have like grass-fed burger, you know with no bun or anything like that cheeseburger oftentimes and Sweet potato I like I really enjoy sweet potato my kids love it and a Mediterranean salad that I like to make with like cucumbers tomatoes lots of high polyphenol extra virgin olive oil feta cheese And lemon juice and then like herbs and salt and stuff like that on it And so if I'm going to eat that meal What is going to have the biggest impact on my insulin? Well, it's going to be the sweet potato. It's going to be the starch, right? So what you want to do there is I'll eat my burger. I'll eat my protein first And sometimes I'll eat a lot of my salad first before I eat the sweet potato and just prioritizing protein or fiber Before something that is more insulogenic Will lower the glycemic impact of the meal and the insulin impact of the meal And so just doing it in order like that can be helpful or even moving right before your meal Maybe especially if you're going to have a higher amount of carbohydrates in the meal Doing something like 10 air squats 20 air squat, you know just squats without any weight just right there You know right before you eat will actually help to activate your glute for protein transporter and your cells And lower the need for insulin from that meal. So lots of different things that can be discussed Yeah, those are such good tips. I love that Awesome. Well, yeah, you kind of beat me to the pinch on the anchor meal. So I think that that would be your incremental And I love that that's my favorite dessert actually is I'll get a full fat greek yogurt I'll throw in some um, I get this mct oil powder Collagen in there right and it's flavored with stevia mix that in there And then um, and then I put I love pomegranate, of course, you know, you got to peel the pomegranate everything So I do berries a lot, but my favorite is pomegranate seeds with the yogurt and the mct slash collagen stevia flavored protein tastes awesome Great, great great little dessert. Yeah, that sounds great. Okay. Well, then how about um, An anchor verse, which is your favorite bible verse life verse one that's resonating with you presently Yeah, you know, my favorite verse is roman's a 28 and gotta work all things out for good for those who love him and are called According to his purpose. I think that's a great resilience Scripture because it's like something sometimes it doesn't look like things are going to work out for good And you know in our limited sense Oftentimes we are quick to judge things as this is really bad. This is not good And so I feel like it just helps me reset to more of a heavenly perspective that god can see he you know, he's Time doesn't restrict god, right? Whereas it does for me And so something may not look good now But god can make beauty out of ashes and he'll work all things out for good So I just need to have hope and faith in that Continue to put my best foot forward and god's gonna work all things out for good Amen to that This has been awesome. Dr. Jockers. Thanks again for being here and thank you everybody for listening I hope you have a healthy and blessed week and I will talk to you soon Well, that's all for this show and I want to thank you again for spending your valuable time with me today And if there was something you heard in this interview that you have questions on or you want to dive into deeper Then dr. Jockers.com is the best place to go If you enjoyed this episode, please consider taking just a quick moment and giving us a great review Your reviews help us influence more people and transform more lives And if you took something valuable away from this episode, then please share it with someone in your life You know it can help We'll see you soon on a future podcast. Be blessed everybody You