David Grutman: The Career Advice Everyone Gets Wrong (#1 Key to Opening Doors That Lead to Success)

This is a iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Sorry for the voice note. Just running for the taxi. Did anyone pack hair straighteners? No! I didn't! I've got hair straighteners. Everybody relax. Predeparture drink anyone? Sure you can roam in the EU at no extra cost, but what really matters is friends and family. That's why we're happy to be your second most important network. Tesco Mobile. It pays to be connected. Terms apply. See tescomobile.com. I never thought in a million years I'd be a cameo in a Super Bowl or I have a restaurant. People think, oh you're just killing it. Anything you can imagine messing up, I've messed up. The only thing I try not to mess up is relationships. I'm your friend. I'm going to push you so hard. But if you're bad to me... Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I know that you guys love being entrepreneurs. You love trying to find new entrepreneurs that you can follow, learn from. Maybe some of you are inside companies and you want to build within them or maybe you want to quit your job and start something new. If any of those are true for you, this episode is for you. Today I'm joined by David Grutman, the entrepreneur behind some of the most successful restaurants and nightlife venues in the world. If you're trying to build a business, grow your career, create something that stands out in a crowded world, this episode is packed with lessons you won't want to miss. Please welcome to On Purpose David Grutman. Thank you. Congrats on an incredible career so far. Congrats on an amazing book. Thank you. So excited to dive into your mind. And I thought the best place to start was with the title. Because I thought take it personal almost feels like the opposite advice that everyone always says. Right. Doesn't everyone say don't take it personal? I think it's because of how deep I take it. Like how much I care about your experience, how much I care about the person, how much I care about that relationship. And if you care that much, there's no other choice but to take it personal. And it's part of my success. Yeah, I find that. When was the first time you realized that it was good to take it personal? Because when you're growing up and if you're failing, I was like, oh, don't take it personally. If you got rejected from that company, don't take it personally. Oh, you know, when did you realize that actually the opposite was right? I realized when I started making mistakes, when I first started my career, and the general manager would come at me so hard and it would be so upset, that's when to me it really resonated with me. And that showed me that this is how I change, how I'm able to get better was because of how deep inside it hurt me. That's where the real change happened. But when I started my career and I would, you know, because of being young and just learning the business, when I really messed up, they really came down on me. I was just like, oh, I never want to disappoint anybody. But the best lessons I've ever learned was when I made mistakes, even today. What was the biggest mistake you made back then that they came down hard for you? I mean, Jay, come on. I've yelled at people when I was like a manager, like you can't yell because of insecurities. I've just messed up. Anything you could imagine messing up in my life, I've messed up. The only thing I try not to mess up is relationships. I went to make a money drop and it got stolen out of my car. I've given bad change, I've closed out wrong, I forgot to lock this. When you make a mistake and someone is like, you could see that someone's very angry with you, I'm just like that. And then later on in my career, because I focus so much on these relationships, when they don't go to my place and they go somewhere else, that's where it really goes south. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when I'm hearing this, people coming, a lot of the time when people come down hard on us when we make a mistake, we almost feel like we don't deserve it, right? But you're saying that you saw it as care? When people take the time to really get upset with me at that time, I probably took it as, wow, they really care about me. Yeah. Which made me even worry about it more. Now, as I grow in my life, people would always say to me, don't take it personal, don't worry about it, that I'm always like, what are you talking about, man? Person's not coming to my place, they're going next door. That's an issue for me. And I try to really put my team around my team. I'm like, guys, why is your friend doing their birthday party at another restaurant? Why is this person that we take care of all the time hanging out at that nightclub? If I don't take it personal and you don't take it personal, we're never going to win. So my team really, they'll call me and be like, just so you know, I'm taking this one personal, David. And I'm like, great, I love that. Yeah, I like it as a mantra. I like it as a reframe right now. And I think it just keeps evolving too. Like I want people to really know that it hurts me personally. I want you to think about it for that split second. If you choose another restaurant over mine, Dave's going to get upset with me. I want them to kind of know that. So at least there's a lease, a more thought if they don't go to one of my spots. Yeah, yeah. Now I need to be careful in Miami when I'm next to you. Oh no, just so you know, when people come to Miami, I'm tracking you like an endangered species. I'm like, I'm watching everything you're doing. Oh, okay. That's where they're going. That's hilarious. I love that. And friends of mine that open restaurants in Miami, except they're like, I hope you give this person the warm welcome you gave me because I would like, you're not going there. And whatever. But you know, as I get older, I want other people to win too. And I put still, I take it, I get really upset. Jay, if you go somewhere else, That's brilliant. I love that mentality. It's so cool. When you started out as a bartender, you said you made a lot of mistakes, but do you think you had a skill or an ability at that time that's made you successful today? Yeah, definitely my interactions with people and remembering their drinks and having the drink waiting for them when they were walking in and stuff like that. I think the little things that you make people feel seen and cared about is what really matters. Even bartending, listen, what I loved about it is that I love to serve people. And I think serving, even at the bar is like the grace. When you make them a cocktail they never had or just by having their drink that they love having there and having the one-on-one conversations with people really helped me build relationships. What made you do that then? You say this in the book, you're like, I didn't know when I started out that I was ever going to build this empire. Ever. But you had that mentality then. And obviously I'm guessing you weren't getting paid incredibly well. No, no, no. So I was making $100,000 a year bartending at a restaurant in the mall. How? Because these guys would come off the golf course, give me $100 tips, all this kind of stuff. So it was in tips you're making most of? Yeah, and I really love to see the managers working, the matriarch, and all that. I'm like, I want to be a manager. Like, well, that pays $33,000 a year. I was like, I'll take it. Because you don't care. Money's not your end goal. And investing in yourself too matters so much. I was so excited to be that manager on the floor. And let me tell you, these people had experienced for 20, 30, 40 years some of these servers and stuff like that. How am I going to be the one that's going to lead them and making sure they do everything right? So education's really where I focused in on really taking the time for my server meeting each day, bringing pamphlets and port wine with chocolate cake and letting them stand up and saying it's a four... And like, giving them all the information on what that port wine... It's a fortified wine. It's from Portugal. It pairs well with this, this, and this. You guys taste it all. That's how I would kind of connect with people. I can honestly say that when there's a good matriarch or a good manager at a restaurant, you feel the difference. Like, you absolutely feel the difference. Where were you learning these skills from? I was lucky enough to have one of the owners of one of the first restaurants I was managing. That was a guy named Bert Rappaport. He made us go to like seven habits of effective people and always looked for how can you do self-improvement. And I had great general... As a young manager, I had great general managers that were like, you know, I always had this imposter thing that like, why am I a manager managing someone that says this kind of crazy experience over them? And I see it now when I see managers yelling or screaming or whatever and not handling situations. Well, it's because they're not confident where they are at in life. And it's funny that now I know I'm much scarier by not screaming. But you have to look deeper than that. You have to see why are they reacting like that. Because they want to be a great leader and they care about people. But why is it coming across like that? How did you transform your anger? Because I feel like that's a natural reaction when you're new in business. You want to get things right. You don't want to let people down. And even now I'm so... Like, if the music's too loud, the lighting's off, or I'm looking at it like either my friends really like going out to dinner with me or they hate it because I'm constantly looking at like... Other people's restaurants or your... No, no, at my own. Just I'm looking at the thing. I'm like, turn the music down, turn it up. Oh, the server's not waiting on them. I'm looking at all the details. And a lot of my friends, they really enjoy because it's like... Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, it's fun to learn. And some are just like, can't you just focus on me? And I'm like, then we should go somewhere else. Because I can't focus on you really in my own place. And then I realized because of that, the bad effect of that is it tightens everybody up more because I know I'm watching and I don't want them to choke and I don't want them to be uncomfortable at work, but I just can't help myself. I'm not the kind of entrepreneur that takes all the notes and then sends a nice email out the next day. I want things fixed right away. I want like real-time situations. And I think in the hospitality business, you only get so many opportunities. What have you learned about giving people feedback that wins versus feedback that demoralizes people? People close up when you just torture them, but also the emotional bank account is something that is... People kind of joke about it, but the emotional bank account is a real thing. You can't just say bad, bad, bad. You have to say good things too because you just don't want to be in the red every time you go to that person. So taking that time to say, you know what? Great job on that. Oh, I saw you. I saw the face on that person or little wins like that. And it's so hard when you're an entrepreneur to just talk about the good things because all you want to do is talk about the bad things, right? But taking that time to make sure is... Because once you're in the black, you could take some out of the deposit. That helps a lot and to be calm. I used to be like, what were you thinking and what's the thought? I used to always want to know, what was the thought process of you making that mistake? Where did you think that was going to be the right way to handle it? Yeah, and that didn't work. It just is like, come on, now you're demeaning me. Let's just say and be specific. I'm always very specific with what I saw was wrong. It's not vague and like, you know, maybe kind of... I think, you know, in this... No, you ordered fired the entire meal. You didn't pace it out at all. You ruined the guest experience. They're going to feel like they got pushed out of our place. Is that how you want to be taken care of? No, I'm very specific. Mark Cuban one time, I took him in the DJ booth speaking of this. He goes, do you ever take a moment to really appreciate what you've done? And I'm like, no, Mark, what are you talking about? I'm like, of course not. Who takes the moment to appreciate? I'll do that later on. He goes, no, no, no. Take the moment, man. And I try now. I'm like, when I know it's good, I'm just like, ah, it feels good. But in my business, you live every day is a new day. Totally. It's like, and this is where my competition goes wrong a lot. They just go, okay, we hit it out of the park, but there's tomorrow. And they forget about tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah, because people are eating every day. You're only as good as you're last day. Nightclubs are going every DJ. There's a new DJ every week. I mean, it's... There's always something that's someone's, you know, trying to beat you to the punch on. Yeah. Talk to me about how you get the confidence to even go, well, I'm going to stop my own because that's not easy. So it's not easy. I, once I started taking over major club venues and feeling very confident on knowing the workings of that, then I start thinking like, why do they want to just be an entrepreneur? I don't want to turn the needle for other people and not share it. It's advice. I tell a lot of my celebrity friends and friends that are, they take fees or whatever. I understand that people have to live, but I think if you're going to turn the needle for someone, you better have some equity in that brand too. And it's always better to take equity than just a fee for hire. But when I made that move, I started a company with two other partners. First was a marketing agency because all these brands were coming to Miami because there was the VMAs. There was all sorts of marquee events and these brands wanted to be treated like they do in New York or LA service the same way. So I started that company. We sold that company. That company went bankrupt. I got the company back and then I put restaurants and everything in it and I sold 51% to Live Nation right before COVID. But taking that first step of opening your own company, it's the best feeling ever. But to this day, people think like, oh, you're just killing it, but you have to make sure everyone else is first and you're the last one as you know to get paid. And there's some months that you don't get paid at all. People don't realize that, you know, they just see, oh, and even when you're losing money, you still have to pay. What was the difference in the approach, the strategy, the mindset that actually allowed you to go and sell 51% of your company to Live Nation day before COVID versus the guy that you grew up with who was a bartender, who was a manager that wanted it too? Or what about the guys that were right next to me as I'm doing it that think that, you know, just because you went and did it all that they think they should be the same as you? Right? So you have to convince yourself first that this is what your goal is. If I'm in the hospitality business, I want to be that owner. I want to open that place. Of course, it's a lot of ego, I'm sure, as you can imagine. And it's just growing. I think that I have ADD so badly that once I've hit that thing, I want to know what else can I do? What else can I do? Who is the first person you had to convince? I had to raise $10 million for Komodo and my friends. They were like, listen, man, this is a big space. This is far away from everything. We're going to do it, but we're kind of doing it just to like, and it turned out to be one of the greatest things I ever did, but it didn't start out great. I had to really push hard, hard, hard and convince people to come and see me at this restaurant. If you wanted to hang out with me, you'd have to hang out with me there. Any DJ that was playing at Live, I'd make them go have dinner there. Any celebrity that came to town, I made sure we did a big dinner there, but I also focused on the other details, the food, the atmosphere, the vibe, the energy, everything was a real hyper focus for me that when people would come that it was the best experience over. And then it became one of the top independent restaurants a couple of years ago. That was, but that you built after Building Live, right? Yeah. What was your first ever restaurant that you like first foray into hospitality ownership? So I had run a nightclub for this, these guys, the Opium Group for many years. It was so successful, but they wouldn't make me a partner. They wouldn't. They would not make me, I'm like, give me a piece. Come on, anything. They went and this other club group did. They were opening a new club. Okay, David, you're going to be a partner with us. Everything I did was to try to make those other guys regret the fact that they didn't, they didn't give me a piece. Because my ethics and my belief system was not lined up, I failed so bad, Jay. I would throw the kitchen sink, I would do Christina Aguilera's birthday and Kim and everybody you could ever imagine and everything I was doing was like, ah, they're going to now they're going to regret. Yeah, they regretted that I failed so badly they bought the club for me. No. Oh yeah. So when Live Opportunity came, I said, you know what, I'm not going to worry about anything. I'm just going to do what I do and I'm going to do it really, really well. And that's Live. How did the opportunity come your way? So at first I was going to partner with this guy from Las Vegas that was going to open up a club there and I was going to be his partner and he got into a little bit of trouble and Jeff Sofer said, listen, I just want to do it with you. Let me let's just do the club together. And I'm like, okay, let's do it. And I said, I want to do things. I want to do Vegas style hospitality because Vegas was known for the service and the hospitality and I wanted to bring that to Miami and everyone's like, it's too far up. You're never going to make it. Jeff Sofer owns the phone blue was building the first Las Vegas style resort in Miami where you had restaurants feeding the nightclub and 16-hunt, you know, insane amount of rooms and just a whole like landscape that you don't want to leave. And I really believed in it. And it was, it's turned out to be one of the greatest experiences of my life. It seems like you built these incredible relationships from starting out as a bartender, manager, owner when it failed, owner when it succeeded. A lot of people feel like when they're not the owner, they can't build good relationships. Oh, you know, in terms of I hear that, oh, I need a business card. I need a title. I need this. I need that go. I never had any of that stuff. By the way, because I always felt like I should be that person to have that really. And I always ask stories and I always walk like I had a destination. I always believed in myself that like, of course, these people need to, I need to take care of these people. And I think when you're trying to add value to people, you have a different kind of stance than you do when you're trying to like take things from people. For me, I just wanted to add value and make people have the best time of their lives at my spots, whether I was a manager, a general manager. I say it all the time to my team. You know, listen, in the hospitality business, a lot of people are using it as a transition job before they get to where they want to be. And I'm like, listen, if you want to be a doctor, a lawyer, whatever it is, if you're a professional here, you're going to be a professional, whatever you do. And you might as well start being a professional right now. And I think by being a professional, everything, it's part of your DNA. It's not like, oh, once I become successful, then I'm going to start acting like that. That's like craziness. You hit the nail on the head with the idea of, yeah. And I think that's the thing. If you don't have a title yet, or you're not an owner, if you truly want to make everyone else's night or add value, then you don't feel scared. You only feel scared when you're like, what can I get from them? What can I extract from the relationship? What are they going to do for me? And I think when you walk into a space, obviously the person who's the person you want to network with is just going to walk away because they get a million people who want to take from them. And I talk about this in my book, you know, at these dinner tables with like a celebrity or a power of business, if I didn't talk to everyone at the table, I wouldn't be here. If you just focus on that one person, you're never going to succeed. And I guess you're right. I guess, you know, coming at it where I'm just here to make you have a great time, not trying to extract anything out of it. Your confidence level is a little bit different. Yeah. I remember you reminded me, I went to an event a few years back and it was for a particular individual and I won't go into the details. But the point was everyone was there for this one person. And that's why everyone was invited to the event. It was at a friend's home. It was private. Maybe there were 30 people there. But the person who it was for only spent time with who they believed were the top five most important people in the room. And they ignored 25 people. Now granted, visually, those five people were the most important people in the room. But you don't know who the other 25 people are. Right. You have no clue. And the other 25 of us who were not the most five people, most important people in the room kind of just walked away just thinking like, well, if you can't give your attention to 30 people, how are you going to take care of like 300 million people at one point? So it's a fascinating idea that I think people underestimate. And making the whole table feel special is so important. And by the way, I want to know everyone's story and those relationships from back then I still have today. And what people don't realize is, oh, it's just the manager. Oh, that's the agent. Oh, yeah. That agent controls 10, 20 great people that they're going to send your way or that publicist, whatever. But knowing that, even like some of these people have their best friends with them their whole lives and they try hearing the best friend stories is always like, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get better stories out of them. Way better. Yeah. So to me, it's always about people. Yeah. What's a rule about people that you've learned that you think people don't understand that most people don't, that most people miss? They go into it with some kind of, I don't know, agenda. I go, don't have an agenda. See what's going to be and if what you can add value to how you can help that person. Because by being a key holder of Miami, people are coming to spend a few days and they want to have a great time and they want to enjoy. But it's also, I want them to know how great my city is. Miami is the best city I feel in America and I want to show that to them. So I would take people to the art district, to this district or this cool little restaurant that's not mine, but has the insane whatever. And I love hosting people at my house. Why is that important? Because I feel like the relationship when it's, when you're in someone's, in fact, they do all my meetings, Jay, at my house. Like I have a great office and there's a lot of people working. I'd much rather meet with you in my house than in an office setting. Yeah. I'm the same. That's why you're here right now. By the way, not a bad house. No, but it's the same feeling of like, I love hearing that from you because, so when I, first when I moved to the States, I lived in New York. I was there for two years. And then we moved to LA eight years ago and we've been in the US for 10 years now. So the two years in New York, I found that I spend a lot of time meeting people in restaurants, bars, things like that. As soon as I came to LA, I met someone at their house and I was at their house for like eight hours. And I was like, gosh, I would never have spent eight hours. And it wasn't like the people were better. It was that spending time with someone in their home felt so much more intimate and deep than spending time in a bar for one and a half hours. I couldn't agree more. When you spend time with people in your house, it's kind of like why they built the White House. You want them to feel like, and I feel like it's an edge too. Listen, once you have a personal relationship with somebody, it's much harder to say no to that person. Do you try and make your places feel like home? I really care about people's hospitality from the moment they walk into my house to the end. I mean, we have great food, great drink. I'm always caring about what can I get you to drink? What can we get you to eat? And knowing what their likes are too before they even get there. Do you think that you think about a good restaurant and a good club as also feeling like a home or it's a different mindset? Different mindset. I think your home is your home. But restaurant, people want to be serviced. I don't want them to feel like they're over-serviced where the person's on top of them, they can't have their own experience. I think that's where some people think great hospitality, great services is just every second on. I think people want seamless service and they want to create their own experience. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I can agree with you more. There are so many massive names. I mean, I know you launched with Bad Bunny. Sure. And that's incredible. Talk to me about how that partnership came around. Again, long ball, long ball. I just love like long-term relationships. And you know, we started a reggaeton night at Liv when it was just starting to bubble. And this guy, Bad Bunny, had so much engagement back then. It was to me, I never... The only other time I saw that is when Abel first came on the scene and we started doing stuff with the weekend. Yeah, yeah. And he's been that people... This is before he was like, people were like 3,000 people would show up for this guy the weekend at the club. And same thing with Bad Bunny when we first... I'm like, there's a guy named Bad Bunny. Anyway, it became friendly with them. Drake comes down to film, to record his album Scorpios. I'm having dinner with him and he goes, who's the number one reggaeton guy? I'm like, dude, this guy, Bad Bunny. He goes, IDM him. He doesn't respond to me. I'm like, sure you have the right Instagram for this guy. I get his manager on the phone, manager puts him on the phone with Drake. He says, listen, either you're going to come here or I'm going to go there. Bunny comes the next day with the whole team. They don't believe it's real. Everyone has promised him Drake. I'm like, listen, man, I'm not... I'm just trying to help. That's it. They come to my house waiting for Drake to call. Drake's manager calls and says, listen, he's not going to see him tonight. He has to go do something else. I go, what are you talking about? They're all in my backyard, man. They don't believe it's real. They might kill me. He goes, no, tomorrow they get up, they leave. Couple of minutes later, the other manager calls the day to day. He says, listen, Drake wants to have dinner with him at Komodo that night. They all come. They go to Komodo lounge and then they record Mia. No. So Mia. Yeah, of course. Yeah. It's a great song. Drake's album comes out. No, Mia on the album. I go, oh no. They did the song. He's not going to... They go, don't worry, David. Bunny's going to release it, not Drake. And they want to release it in the summer. They released the songs, a huge hit. They do the music video in Miami when Drake's supposed to do like three days in Miami. It rains, Drake gets sick, cancels his show. Anyway, the song, they get the video, the song comes out, it's huge. Later on, Drake has to make up those shows, comes back to Miami. I go, why is Bad Bunny not coming out with you at one of your shows? He goes, he should come out. Again, I get the Bunny and Noah saw his manager on the phone and I go, Noah, listen, Drake wants Bunny to come out with him on his show. I think he should do it. He goes, no, no, no. His manager already told me he doesn't want him to come out. He doesn't want to sing Spanish or anything like that. Drake, here you go. Can you guys come? They just landed in Vegas for the Grammys. They get back on the plane and come and go out with them on his show. So fast forward, Live Nation, Michael Rapinoe who runs, is the greatest human being partner ever. He goes, I want to make Latin like I did with Hip Hop, with Rock Nation. I want to do that with Latin. I go, well, let's start with the top. So he does this deal with Noah saw to JV about bringing Latin acts to Live Nation. Bunny moves over and does a stadium tour with Live Nation and he puts in his contract. He says, okay, one other condition for me to do this is David Gretman does a restaurant with me. So Michael Rapinoe calls me and I go, come on. I'm so happy. I'm so happy that you guys are, this is great. He goes, no, no, no, I need you to do this restaurant. I go, okay. Meanwhile, it's been the greatest experience in relationship between also, so there's bad bunny, but there's a guy named Noah saw who's his manager who I just, I love them both so much and it's such a family. And talk to me about the timeframe between you connecting him to Drake and that happening to the restaurant. Probably like three years. Yeah. Just but constantly. Yeah. And that's the thing. You were setting them up when there was no benefit. You're not in on the deal. You're not making music. I'm not an executive producer of the song. In fact, nobody even really knows. I don't get a shout out in the song. Like, can I get a shout out? Nothing. In fact, the music video was, I didn't even get to be in the music video, but it's okay because we're long game. We're long game here. Fast forward. And now just again with the Casita at the Super Bowl, which was incredible. Yeah, that was awesome. And just so happy to see him win, man. Yeah. It was great to see you out there. I was like, this is amazing. It's awesome, man. No, but I'm glad that the lesson is the long game because I think people underestimate people underestimate the power of that. I think there's such a transactional quick win mentality now believing that you've got a, you know, and also even pretending for amounts of time to see what happens. Even that is not long game. Long game is just building loyal relations. By the way, that's it. And you know, people say to me, oh, I want to go network. I'm like, what the fuck is networking, man? I go, networking is the worst thing. I want to go have authentic relationships with people. And you're right. I see it today all the time. They just want to like, what's the quick hit to do? And I'm just like, man, take the journey with people. Go the distance. You never know. I never thought in a million years I'd be a cameo in a Super Bowl or I have a restaurant or that the guy that just partnered with me is trying to get Latin. I'm able to now live nations the biggest in Latin. Yeah. And I'm so happy. It's like, yeah. And that was all just stuff that was fun. It was just like... By the way, and that's what I've also learned from Michael Rapino is, you know, listen, let's just, just go about it and things might come out. And by the way, sometimes nothing comes about it and that's okay too, but you have these stories with people. Yeah, totally. Totally. Like it doesn't always have to be about a monetary situation. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of agree with you more. I remember when I was, I was just starting out my career and I became friendly with this guy who is around at that time, he was like 70 years old. He was a jewelry designer and his dad used to play harmonica for Frank Sinatra. Wow. So he had loads of great stories of being in the car with his dad and Frank and they would travel across the world and, you know, be in the back of a, you know, a bus, tour bus, I guess. And then he'd have all these stories. He designed jewelry and the jewelry would end up on the front cover of like Vogue and Victoria's secrets and all that kind of stuff. That was his career and he'd have all these stones he'd find from Africa and he'd tell me stories about where he just went in Africa and found this like, and I would watch him and I was probably like 26 at that time and this guy's like 70 and I would just be like, God, this guy's got so many great stories. And I used to just sit there and watch him and go like, God, when I get older, I hope I have lots of stories because I thought, what a cool life to live. Yeah. I mean, I mean, and I love that my kids now get to have these relationships, these people too, the next generation. Like my kids have no idea that this is so-and-so and this is so-and-so, but they're getting to meet some of the most amazing people that's changed our world. And, you know, whether it's not just celebrities, also business and it's, and from, and my wife too, like to, for us to be around these kind of people is great. And I love it. What was, what was your childhood like? Difficult. I was, my parents got divorced when I was six. I was the only child left alone a lot by my mom, was she being real estate and stuff like that. And my father instantly remarried. She had a kid from another marriage. So for me, I'm like, my dad moved on with a new family. I'm here left alone by myself a lot. I grew up with like silver spoons and family ties and different strokes and facts of life and Charles in charge. That's kind of like how I was raised. So it's a little weird. And then when I got older, I was kind of like the stovetop kid. I'm like, what time are you having dinner? What time are you having dinner? But I grew up in Naples, Florida. It's a really beautiful space to place to grow up. A lot of retired people. So a lot of my friends, you know, they're dead. They were 90 years old back then. No, I'm joking. But also, no, but you know what is by being an only child, you're able to have conversations with adults because you're around more adults than you are children. And I kind of love that about my childhood. It's one thing I'll never like. I love being able to learn from just being able to be in the room with older people at the time. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. I think it's a huge one. It's probably the hardest thing right now where people are spending less and less time with people older. Because my daughters are 18 months apart, so they have each other and they're always around each other. But I was the guy that was the kid that was in the room with like all the adults and hearing the adult stories and stuff like that. And it still fascinates me today. What are the lessons that you learned from your parents that you're trying to pass on to your kids and what are the lessons you're trying to avoid? So I know because I was, I probably blame my mom and my father, but I'm not as connected with my family as I want my kids to be connected with me and I like make sure I have that connection with them. And I want them to grow up in a loving, loving family. Not that my mom didn't love me. I just never felt super connected because I saw her late and I didn't understand why these other kids were able to have these families and all that. And I probably blamed somebody for it. Yeah. And that, when did you feel like you stopped blaming or you stopped connecting to that? I don't know if I ever, I just feel like I never want my girls to grow up like that. I want them to always feel love and a presence around them all the time. Yeah. And again, my mom loves me, but I didn't get to see her much, but I want my girls to always see me. We take them with us everywhere. How do you manage that with the crazy lifestyle you have? We manage it. We make it a priority and that's part of our life. That's kind of the deal. If you have us, our kids are coming to. I mean, there's things for everything, but taking my kids to Saudi Arabia, taking my kids to Israel, taking my kids to Japan, it's the coolest thing in the world and seeing them how excited they get. How have you pivoted? Because I feel like you're also brilliant at knowing when to start something new. Last few years, I knew investing in brands and working with young entrepreneurs, young founders that I could make a big difference in. It's been really the next stage of my life and I love it. How can I take those brands and put them into my ecosystem and grow them then? Give me an example, Al. Skinny dipped, that's probably the best, better for you to cover. My wife loves them. They're the greatest skinny dip. I have a skinny dip dessert at some of my restaurants. Daring plant-based chicken I would have at my places. I do collaboration dishes with fly by jing or all these different things and I think that's one way of adding value. I've done goodles, Mac and cheese, better for you Mac and cheese, balls and all sorts of stuff and brunch is all catered to these brands or events just catered to these brands to grow them. Then I talk about them a lot and we rebrand and we do collaborations and other brands I invest in like symbiotic and coconut colt, they have them do collaborate, all different stuff but by being this great connector for these brands and young founders it's been the most rewarding thing I've ever done. That seems to be like with all these stories you're telling me there's a pattern in who you are which is like this super connector. Correct. Right? It feels like that's your superpower. I love that I'm able to get anyone that I really need to get on the phone and put them with somebody else and they know that there's no, I just want to help. That's why people take the call and do whatever they want and they do great things together and I'm not the guy, oh can I get 10% like I hate those people but it pays off 10 times over so like don't be so hungry for that one. If your friends do a great deal, cheer your friends on. I'm like everyone's biggest cheerleader. Yeah, it's fascinating isn't it? So many people are living in that scarcity mindset of being scared that if I connect you to you and then you guys do business together. I'm going to get cut out. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, you know what? Maybe you do get cut out but that's okay because your friends are growing and you're going to keep going like that's okay. Yeah, yeah. If that's how you live your life and be a gatekeeper and say you know what, I'm going to text that person and then I want to be the person that like don't do it without me. Make sure I'm CC'd or I'm part of who could live like that man. Like I'm so happy to, and if they want me to come in the deal, I'll come in the deal. They say don't, no problem but there'll be a deal later on that I might need that person for and they're going to remember that I connected them back then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a huge lesson as well. The coupon system is the best system. Would you explain that? Listen, when you do, when somebody does something special for me, I'm like you have a coupon and anytime you ask something of me, I'm going to of course be there. It's an untold situation that I really live my life by. Yeah. I have a lot of coupons out there and a lot of people have done so much for me that I owe people so much that they could ask me to do anything and I'm doing it. And I think that's the way you live your life. Yeah, yeah for sure. I love that. And it's almost like a constant state of gratitude and a constant state of giving. That's at the end of the key is the gratitude, right? When you give someone, let's say a coupon, that's just a way of gratitude, let's say. Gratitude really changes everything the way you look at things, the way you feel, the way you come across. Yeah, I feel that way. I feel like people are always like, why do you live here? I'm like, this city's given me so much, like so much. Oh no, you're living here is crazy. You should be in Miami. But now I know who to call. Yeah, of course. But no, it's my point is that you can either look at it as like, oh, look what I've done, look what's happened. And it's like, no, but look what people have done for me, right? Look what people have done for us. I know people love to say like, I'm a great connector, but people have done so much for me my whole life and they continue to do so much for me. Like, look at Kim did the forward. She didn't have to do that. But Johnny did the cover again. The fact that people still do great things for me, it's great. And I'm so grateful and appreciative. I feel like you're a place in your life where you're passing on hence the book. Like you're passing on these lessons, you're telling these stories, you're sharing the advice. I remember that one of the first times I came across you was when you were doing this course at the university in Florida. Right, FIU. FIU. And I'd see these clips come out and I was like, who's this guy like literally taking everyone to a group of students, you're giving these students the best experience. Talk to me a bit about that because I think that feels like what it's led into the book, right? By the way, the book is based on that. So five years ago, FIU came to me and they said, hey, listen, we're the biggest hospitality school that nobody knows about. And I'm like, would you let me teach a course? And they go, what do you mean? Come and just tell your story. I go, no, no, I want to teach a course. I want them to get credits for it. They go, okay, it's going to be, you're not to present us, you know, syllabus. So I go, okay, let's go. And they're like, but I'm like, we got to compress it. So five classes, once a week for five weeks, three hours of class. And can I tell you what's so easy that you go through your day and you do it without even thinking about it, to break it down was such a process like, how do you break down relationships? How do you break down all the points that they don't teach you in school that you do so easily in your life? It was such a great process for me to go through that just to break it down. And I was so grateful to be able to teach it and below the, and like, of course, some of the biggest people in the world would come and surprise them each week, but to see the look on their faces. It was the hardest thing I've ever done, but by far the most rewarding. What was your favorite thing to teach there? What resonated the most with the students? Well, the fact that they know who I am and where I'm at, and I started off bartending at a restaurant in the mall up the street from the school. If I could go from a bartender at a restaurant in the mall, one block from the school, a couple blocks from the school, then think what you could do. And that for me was always the perfect setting for what I did. And the fact that they were so special, that I cared about them so much knowing how busy I was that I took the time to spend on making this class great for them. Hopefully they knew how special they were in life. I mean, I don't think anyone, you literally, I think you took Haley, Kendall. Rick Ross, Bad Bunny. David Beckham, Black Coffee, Ben Goreham, Alex Earl, John Summit, but like, poor, I mean, the greatest people ever, Drake on the days releasing his album. I was like, wow. Jason, but anyway, forget about those people. It was, it was just great. And they would be like, okay, guys, we're going to end class a little earlier than Bad Bunny would walk in. And they would like, what the fuck. Yeah. But they always had a lesson to teach. It wasn't just, hey, there's some celebrity showing up, talk about your brand, talk about building relationships, talk about everyone thinks everyone was an overnight success too. That's the most important thing. Everyone thinks these people just did it in one day. I'm like, no, no, no. Tell them how long you, you were in the trenches for. Cause that's where I think people, you know, they go, I'm going to graduate school. I'm going to open my own nightclub. I'm going to open my own restaurant. I'm like, no, no, no, I was a bartender. I was a server. I was a manager. I go, and that part of the journey was where the magic was. That's what I, I loved. Yeah. Yeah. It's that's what also makes the, the climb special is, is all those lessons you gained right on the front lines that then helped you build the real thing. In Cornwall, we value the moments that matter. We value friendship. We get to catch up while we travel. I value my time. Taking the bus gives me extra time on my commute. I value family time. The family day ticket makes exploring easy. We have a range of fairs to suit everyone and under fives, travel free. Download the transport for Cornwall app for all the bus info you need. One of my, one of my favorite lessons in the book, you talk about this, you say, check your ego before your ego will check you. Right. And I wanted to know how your relationship with ego has changed because at the start you were saying, well, hey, there was a bit of ego and like, I wanted to do the big thing. Talk to me about when you realized you had to check your ego. Well, the first time I ever had to check my ego was my friend Wayne Boyce that has reserve paddle. I had open live and it was on fire, the craziest thing ever. And he said to me, goes, listen, man, you're not saving lives. You're not a doctor. You're not doing heart surgery. So why don't you just take, and it resonated with me so hard when somebody that you care about knows you, knows you for who you are and says, you're, you're kind of like your ego is getting a little bit big. Why don't you bring it down a little bit? That's when I knew that it wasn't endearing to people for me to be like the super cool club guy. And that's why I've always just stayed who I am because I've had great friends that like when there's times when you start to drink your own Kool-Aid, as you know, as you get bigger and bigger and bigger. And that's when you, you're also afraid to ask for help and you think you know it all and that you're untouchable. Today, to be honest, I've had more problems with success than I've had with failure, failure. Okay. We move on. You forget about it the next day, but as success gets your ego so big, that's where the issues happen. Talk to me about that. Cause I agree. That's where you think you're untouchable and you think, you know, I think you have to stay in control. And I think by keeping your ego down during those times is when you could grow the most. How do you do that? How have you, because you are winning, you are on top, you're working with the best. How have you in those moments? I have an amazing life, Isabelle. Let's start there. Right? So she's just like, she's like, ah, of course she wants me to win. She wants us to win. And she's fighting just as hard as I am. But also, you know, she keeps me in line too. But also at this point in my life, I know it's just way more powerful to be not so cocky, not so this, not so, just be so grateful. And that's again, where gratitude comes into place too. Right? Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Cause if you're grateful and you're serving others, then your heads are not going to get that big. Yeah. No, but I think you raised a good point. A, in our case, is a good wife is like, is a game changer. And like my wife is, my wife has checked my ego plenty of times. She does it. She, when my wife does it, she goes right for the jugular too. My wife does not play games. Same. I thought you said you loved me. My wife is so direct and she like cuts it right there and she does not. And it's the best thing ever because I love her and I know she loves me. So I can trust it's coming from a good place. You know what's so special is to have someone that you never have to question whether they have your back or not. Yeah. And having a wife like my wife Isabella, which she's given me, I know that I never have to worry about if she doesn't have my best interest in mind. Always. I never have to worry about it. And for me, just the confident level that that's given me has given me the strength to get through anything. It's one thing that I think people kind of miss it to try to be out there and don't care about really love and relationships. And it's so important. How have you allowed yourself as a man to allow for that? Because I feel like a lot of men can kind of get carried away and just feel like yeah, I'm the shit. And you know, you just move on and then, you know, by going through that kind of stuff when I was younger has put me in a better place to be married. That's for sure. And I love that my wife is an entrepreneur and that she's out and I could see her fighting and I love that my daughters see their mother get up every day, go to her store, build her brands, invest, do all this. She could have easily gone for lunches and done nothing. Instead, Izza Gretman jewelry, she's killing it and she doesn't stop. And I think it's such a motivation for my daughters to see that, not just me, but the family do it. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think it's a set and a wonderful example for them. And me, she inspires me. This girl is like dealing with it all. I'm like, wow, OK, let's go. Yeah. And what does it look like when you kind of knew who you were for a long time? Right? It sounds like you know who you are. And that's why I'm OK being a plus one because I know I'm not really ever a plus one. Like I want her to shine, but I know like, come on. Yeah. Like I'm so happy that she's doing this. And I'm like, I'm like her guests now at places. That's kind of the coolest thing ever. What's what's something in hospitality that you've seen that blew your mind? Something that you went, wow, that was impressive. Thomas Keller, of course, at Surf Club, even in just the way his butter comes out for the bread, always so blown away by even these the classic guys that really set the tone for what I do today. Yeah. And their mentality on how they do things. Becoming friendly with Thomas Keller has been one of the greatest gifts ever because he really gets the guest experience from the second you walk into the second you leave. And what he does is he stirs in pearls. He gives you right away because and it's something that my friend, Jeff, that major food group does with Carbone, they bring the garlic bread and all the little fun pickings. Once you get as soon as they sit down, you get them there, you've won them over. And that winning them over moment, the rest doesn't even really matter. As long as you win them over right away. Yeah. It's it's watching great guys like that really win. Yeah, it's it's hard as well. Like you feel like it's not easy. I mean, I'm constantly trying to evolve the menus and see what the, you know, trying to set new trends and sometimes it works and sometimes it just doesn't. What if what if you know it's about a good idea? Like how do you when do you do you feel like the only way to know is obviously to test it or do you kind of feel it in your bones and you go now? I feel my bones and listen, there's things where I think, OK, this is the greatest idea ever, but then the data just shows otherwise. Like I had a Gretman pastrami egg roll at Komodo and I'm like, this is the greatest egg roll of all time. It's a Gretman pastrami egg roll. My team comes to me and they go, we need to go over something with you. And I go, what's that? They go, the Gretman pastrami egg roll is the second least selling item on our menu. I go, secondly, I go, there's a conspiracy. Are you sure? They go, yeah, it's heavy. The servers don't like to sell it. I go, but it's my namesake. How do they not want to sell it? The guests feel, I go, what's the number one selling item? They go, the lobster dynamite. I go, you mean the Gretman lobster dynamite? So let's just change it right there. But I think it's the greatest idea. It doesn't work. And now learning with chefs that I know that I don't know it all is food. I let the chefs put items on the menu and we let the data speak. If it sells, it sells. Yeah. If it doesn't, but that's taken great chefs to come and push me into that kind of role. Yeah. And let other people, and it's been a great way for chefs to feel that they have ownership in your place. Yeah, for sure. How do you, how do you decide who to bat on as people now that you're working with people and brands and you bring in chefs, you bring in, you work with so many people across the board. What do you look for? I look for artists. I know I'm not the most creative guy in the room, but I love having creative people around me. It's what feeds my energy. Like to be able to help enable an artist to do something special and I'm part of that. It's a great reward for me. And what do you look for in them in their creativity that come on, Jay, we know when somebody's special and when somebody's not. I want to know your formula because I'm like, yeah, if they move me, if they make me emotional, if I feel connected to what their thing is. And let me tell you, I'm one of those guys, the last conversation I have with somebody is kind of like, I'm like blown away by people. So if you can move me and I see something special in you and I'm your friend, I'm going to push you so hard. But if you're bad to me, you know, what happens then? No, no, I'm like the best friend, but the worst enemy. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't know you had that side. Oh yeah, there's that side. Okay. What does that look like? No, I'm joking. No, it's fine. We want everybody, you know, it's like a monk. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, in that side, yeah, that. I mean, yeah, the monks are equal to all for sure. Right. But yeah, you act how you want to act according to your values, no matter how anyone acts. Correct. According to their values. Exactly. Even if their values are lower. You always want to be, listen, when people come in there, like, I always try to be above that. Like when people from other restaurants and stuff come to my place, I go overboard to treat them well. I love when someone's in my nightclub from another nightclub. What a compliment. Where people are like, oh, they're from another nightclub. Get them out. I'm like, are you crazy? What a compliment to have these people here where you take extra care of them. Yeah. And I think it also changes. It makes you look stronger than weaker. Yeah. And that's where people miss out too. Who's moved you the most recently, creatively, artistically, someone that has had that impact on you, where you've bet on them. So there's a guy named Ben Gorham. And he's the founder of Byredo, which is, you know, a fragrance company. He was homeless when he started the brand. And he sold for a big number a couple of years ago. He moved from Sweden to Miami. And he's just so thoughtful on what he's doing for people. He's helped many people with fragrance and stuff like that now, just as their friend. And he's really taught me to take that moment to really figure out what's the story, what's the meaning behind things, instead of just going, going, going, going, be really thoughtful with what you're doing. And I think that's been really impressive. Also, yeah, just my, my girls have kind of impressed me a lot too on how they see the world and how they, they're evolving. It makes me like inspired again to see the world differently. What do they see that you don't see? They see so much good and so much they're like, they get so excited about just the dolphin or the bird or their rabbit or, you know, and the fact that they're just, they're so content just being with that. And I just want to learn that kind of practice again. Just being so happy and content. And my wife by far has just been blowing me away. She's very special. What's the biggest impact she's had on you? For her to realize why I get so, because, you know, when she launches her brand, the website goes down, this happens at work, this, you know, and to see how she's handling those same frustrations. But she found her way. Like she never thought she was going to be a jewelry designer. She started off making her clothes and then she met some great jewelry designers and she started her own brand and she found what her passion was. And it wasn't what she thought she was going to do. And I love when it just hits you and then you take it. A lot of people would hit some, but they don't take advantage of it. She took it and ran with it. Yeah. Yeah. And I love what you're saying about the presence with you. Seeing the presence of your girls, like that being something you want to get. Is that something you feel like you're getting to at this point in your life? Yeah. Listen, I feel like my child was a little bit different than everyone else's. I didn't think I was able to be a kid because I was around it done. And just to see like the feeling they get with the simplest thing, it doesn't have to be the most expensive or elaborate thing. Just they like, and just by being spending time with me to them is just so precious. Unlike they make me feel like the biggest man in the world. That's beautiful, man. Thank you for sharing that. Of course. Yeah. At this point in your career, when you could be doing anything, you're going into production and TV. Yeah. And I know you're, because I know you're also working with Full World too. Yeah. Who I'm working with. I'm good friends with Ben Winston. So Ben Winston is great. By the way, how much do we love Ben Winston? Let's let's do that. Ben, we love you. He's going to love this. I know you love the shout out. So I'm giving you the big shout out, Ben Winston. I had to convince this guy for years. I'm like, Alex Earl, I'm telling you, Ben. How did you have to convince him about Alex Earl? He had no idea who was. And then he started doing Ben. We need to talk. But think, you know, listen, but Ben trusted in me finally. And Alex trusted. And by putting them all together and the father and the mother and the stepmother, and it's a, I come across so many interesting characters in my life. Their story has to be told. It's why I'm doing Black Coffee's documentary right now, because Black Coffee has a story that's that crosses the ocean. And I want to keep doing that. And I think by being able to give people a platform to tell their stories, it's going to be very powerful for me. The reason I love that is because I'm sure there's people going, well, Dave, what do you know about film and TV? I'm a producer. Yeah. I mean, listen. No, but I love that. Isn't it? And listen, I'll learn as I go. But also it's it's fixing issues and problems, right? And that's what I do for a living. Most of producing is like, oh, we have an issue. Can you get that handled? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you produce Bad Bunny and Drake. But no, no, the reason why I like it, I mean, we're in the same place. We just launched our production company a month back. And it was the same thing. Like I've sat for years in meetings where people are like, Jay, will you get podcasting and you get social media? And, you know, what does this mean? And, you know, now we have three projects in Netflix and it's like everyone's excited. But but it's the same thing of like, everyone's always going to try to put you in your box and put you in your lane. I tried pushing, you know, pitching so many shows with me on, with me not on, the whole thing. And they didn't fly. And in this one, you know, obviously having been as a partner and Alex Earl is like the hottest thing in the world right now. Helps. And again, everyone thinks it happens overnight and they don't know what to think. And they're like, this hospitality guy is doing a show. What are we doing? Thank God that this is the one now everyone's coming out of the woodwork and saying, Dave, can we do a show together? Great. Let's do it. I think it would be a home run, man. I'm really excited. Listen, Alex is amazing, but the rest of the family is on another level. And I think that's what people don't realize is that they think they're just going to get Alex. But there's a whole cast of characters of the family that you're going to love. Yeah. Dave, I'm so glad you wrote this book because I feel like it's going to help a lot of people realize just how you can start early, start humbly, start small, go on to build something pretty incredible and still do it with, you know, the joy. Like you look like you're having fun. Oh, no, it's the best thing in my life. Like when I'm watching you and when I've seen you about whenever we've been at the same places, I'm like, you always look like you're having fun. And I think that says a lot about someone. And even when Kim says you have the most contagious smile in the world, I'm like, you know, that's a lot. I still can't believe I'm here, Jay. To be honest with you, I'm a kid from Naples, Florida. Like, you know, I'm just so grateful to be here, man. What did you think you would be when you were a kid? I thought I was, I don't know, like a fireman or whatever. That being said, once I got older, I'm like, am I going to do title insurance? What am I going to do? Like, and the fact that this is what I get to do with my life and be here with you, it's amazing. Thank you for having me. No, thank you. We end every episode with the final five. You got to answer these questions in one sentence maximum. We asked these to every guest on the show. Oh, I know. So, oh, you already prepared. All right, you came prepared. So, Dave, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? Take it personal, of course. Good answer. Second question, what is the worst advice you ever heard or received? You should definitely take that space. Oh. Someone promoting the wrong space. Yeah, that's funny. That's funny. Do you have an example of that? Yeah, I opened a diner in an old firestone gas station. I failed so badly after three months, I had to close it after three months. How many things have you had to close down? Two restaurants and a nightclub. But the nightclub, the city closed me down, meaning there was high end buildings that came around the nightclub. But it's definitely not going to be my last restaurant I closed. I'm going to have to close others at some point in my life and I'm going to have to open new ones as well. When something closes down or fails, how do you go back out there and raise more money and raise energy? How does that work? Because think of the emotional bank account. You've done some successful things and not everything's going to work, Jay. And I think people kind of know that. So people don't write you off. You don't feel like the world writes you off when you're back. No, but you try to make good on it too, like later on in life as well. But no, people want to still come to my experiences. Yeah. No, because I feel people scared about that, not just you, but I feel like a lot of people are scared of having a big failure. By the way, it's the scariest thing in the world, but guess what you realize? It's scarier to you than the rest of the people out there. The single. No one's thinking about it. Okay. They think about it for a day or two. That's fair. And then you open another hit and guess what? They don't even remember what that's. Yeah. I always say that to people. Like if you think of your favorite actor or actress in movies, they've all made bad movies and you've forgotten about them because they made the iconic ones that you remember. Same with music too. Your favorite musicians have made so many bad songs. And I promise you your favorite restaurant tours have to add some of the dumbest restaurants you could ever imagine. Yeah. And I'd probably put out some bad content. It's the way it is. It's the way it is. And it's good to remember that because otherwise you get in your head and you keep thinking, I don't want to put that out because if I go out bad in a big way, then it won't work out. You've got to try. Yeah. Yeah, you've got to try. If someone wanted to change their life in the next 12 months, what skill should they invest in? In themselves. I think investing in yourself and growing you as an individual, like don't be afraid to grow as an individual. Go seek out as much guidance and beliefs and ethics and stuff like that just to grow your own self because the stronger I think I am emotionally and confident is the better I am out there. Question number four, what makes the best business partner? Someone that's going to add so much value that it's going to pour over the glass. Someone who's really willing to go there. Really? You've got to be in the trenches. Yeah. We wanted to try this with you. I don't think you've ever, have you ever seen this meme where you get $50 to spend? Have you seen this before? No. Okay. So you get $50 to spend. As you can see, everything costs something different. I'm going to hand this to you in a second and you've got to choose if you could only spend $50, what would you spend it on from these four options? They've all got a different dollar amount. If you were starting a new business today. Mentor who's built three successful businesses, an amazing launch party. You can only spend $50. This is $1? Yeah. Startup capital. Mentor who's built, a mentor who's built three successful businesses. That's the most important thing. I think so. I think you need to have, with anything, if people think it's just about the top one, it's the base that really builds business and builds your brand. If you're just building something on the top level and you don't have that good base, just in life too, as you know, like we just talked about our wonderful wives. I have a great base at home. I could do anything, but you need that base. So the mentor for a business is the most valuable piece. So that's $49. And so then? I mean, the celebrity business partner is not bad, but listen, you want the startup capital as well? Yeah, I think those two are the best. Okay, but you don't get the start up capital because you only, you spent $45. $25. Oh, $25, $25. Oh, you got both. I'm in. You did it. You did it. I could do a math job. Dave, you win. You win. That's good. All right. So those are the two most important things. It's an interesting one because you name so many mentors you've had, so many partners you've had in your career. And I think right now, everyone thinks they have to network to find a mentor. And I'm sure there's a million people like Dave, will you be my mentor? Right. And I'm sure you can't. I don't have the time. Right. Exactly. So how does someone, what does that even look like? So listen, you could still study stuff about people, but you'd still find people that you admire. It doesn't mean that you're going to, everything that you take away from them, you don't have to think is the gospel. Take, I take different things from people all the time and I kind of make them my own. And even the person I admire the most, there's qualities of that person that I don't admire. Right. And I, you try to extract the best you can out of everybody. That's why asking people what their story is will come, will, will breathe that. Yeah. I agree with you. And, and I was going to say that I feel like I had the most amazing group of mentors in people I never met because I read their books. And I read that book. Take it personal. I'm just, I'm just setting you up. I'm just a layup. No, but I mean it. No, I'm not just, I'm being serious. Like I never met Steve Jobs. I feel mentored by Steve Jobs. Never met Martin Luther King. I feel mentored by Martin Luther King because I've read their books and I read their words and I thought about how do they act in that position? What decisions did they make? Like all of that kind of stuff. So I think we undervalue just how much wisdom is out there right now. And especially with all the platforms now, you don't even have to read the book. You could see the shorts, the whatever on these people. I think I love going through social media and seeing people's stories. Yeah. I love, and like the ones I admire and even people I don't even know. I'm just like, wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Dave, fifth and final question we ask is to every guest who's ever been on the show, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Just be good. Just do good. I think, yeah. To anyone and everyone. Everyone. And how can we do that on a daily basis? What does that look like? By having gratitude, like you said, for sure. But by trying to add value to people is what I find good. It's as simple as that. Boom. Yeah, add value. And don't worry about being remembered. You'll always be remembered if you add value. By the way, even if you're not remembered. Yeah. It's okay. Because you do it for yourself and not for the recognition. Yeah. That being said, Jay, I'm so happy I made it through without crying. I'm very happy that I was, because I thought for sure I was going to have to cry. What did you think? What did you think you were going to cry about? No, I'm just joking. My wife's like, you know, Dave, the deepness, you're not used to the deepness. And I'm like, I know, I think he's going to make me cry. I think I'm going to be strong. I can't cry. No, I, my thing is like, I want people to be themselves. I know. So you're just crying with that. No, always. No, always. There's a lot of, but I didn't make it through no crying. I didn't make you cry then. I thought for a little bit during the childhood, there could have been a moment, but it's okay. So you're going to go back there then. We're going to make you cry now. Now it's a challenge. Let's get the book out, Jay. Now you challenge me. Let's get the book out. Dave, you're a great time, man. Thank you so much for having me. That's all I wanted to do is have a great time. You're the best. Great. That's awesome. If you love this episode, you love my conversation with Airbnb founder Brian Chesky on how to tap into your creative potential and the number one thing people get wrong about success. The best people in your life will be people who see potential in you that you didn't see in yourself. And I often wonder, this is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.