Episode #74 Featuring Chris Divecchio! Insights from The Ultimate Transformational Health Coach! The importance of personalization, Defining True Transformation, Building client trust and more!

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That's Timeline.com backslashdillon. I assure you, your cells will thank you. Alright, everybody, welcome back to the Dillinger Mellie podcast. So today's guest actually has a special place in my heart and I will tell you quickly before I introduce him why. I did a podcast with the Mind of George show and after finishing, I became friends with the host George and he said, you gotta, you gotta meet this guy. I've got the perfect guy for you. So he hooked me up with my guest today and I immediately hit it off with him and I'll tell you something about this guy. I had an episode I've talked about that put me in the hospital for four days and my guest, I had just meet maybe two, three weeks prior and we had, you know, had good conversation back and forth and I will tell you, he spent time the four days I was in there. I think almost every single day sending me encouraging audio clips, text messages. I mean, it's one of those things that I will never forget. There was a reason I met him and I just wanted to put that out there before I give him the intro here. Now, we're going to talk a lot of things that are in both our wheelhouses here that are going to really resonate with so many people and I think you're going to find it overwhelmingly insightful, but in short, because I can't give him enough accolade, he's a high performance coach, he's an entrepreneur, he's a health strategist and he's recognized for his ability to seamlessly blend elite fitness, business optimization and longevity science featured on Good Morning America, the New York Post, Men's Health and KTLA Morning News. He actually made headlines for coaching a professional poker player to win the largest weight loss prop bet in history over a mill dropping 33% body fat down to 10% in just six months. He's got 30 years of experience. Now, he's worked with a lot of executives, a lot of athletes and industry leaders and what he does is he helps to master the business athlete mindset, which is a philosophy that treats health fitness and recovery as essential tools for business success. My man does it all, we're going to get into it. He literally is one of the best of the best at what he does. I can't give him enough accolade. My friends Chris DeVecchio. I appreciate you being on here, man. I have been looking forward to this ever since the second that I mentioned I was introduced to you. God has this way of working and he brings people together and I firmly believe in all of that as you know. So let's let's utilize this time and drain you for as much information as we can possibly get. Yeah, looking forward to it. You're allowed to talk about. I know it. All right, so okay, I gave you the breakdown. I gave you the rundown. But let's talk about how you got into this, you know, you've been in fitness, you've been in health. That's my background. So, you know, I can resonate with everything that you're doing. But we all have a story. We all have a reasons what drove you to this industry and what really continues to drive you and motivate you today. Yeah, there were two critical points in my life that kind of pushed me in the direction of health and wellness. You know, that 16 years old was Miss Diagnose with child of leukemia. Unfortunately, it was only a short period of time that the Miss Diagnosis was there. But doctors had read some blood work in a prognosis and accurately and had, you know, thrown the terms out there. So at that point, I was really concerned at a very early age and facing mortality at the early age, which is not very common for a lot of people. Thankfully, they had a third opinion on the blood work came back and realized they had made a mistake. And so I felt like I had a second chance at life. So that was really something that stuck with me from an early age that made me really think deeply about the importance and the value of my health and how long I want to live. And I have to take control of my own health to make sure that, you know, I have that lifespan that I'm looking for. I played Division 1 College hockey. So hockey was my sport since I was five years old and going into college transitioning from prep school, you know, I was I was a right wing forward. I was about 170 pounds soaking wet. So making that transition from high school to college was a little difficult because you're going as kids at when you're high school versus playing against bigger grown men in college. And so the second event was really my coach coming up to me after my freshman year saying if I didn't put on some size for the following season that I might not be playing. And so that was a threat to something that I thought at that time, I wasn't sure where I was going to go with my hockey career. You know, I had no idea like what what direction I was going to go. But I knew that that's what I was there for, right? And I didn't want that to end. And so I took that very seriously went home that summer and put on 30 pounds in three months. I took weight training seriously, my nutrition seriously supplementation. And I really learned the power and the value of being able to manipulate your body if you apply to science. And so the combination of, you know, facing mortality at a young age and also learning how easily you can manipulate your body, it just created this perfect storm of passion for for health and fitness, you know, transitioned into a small little fitness modeling career coming out of college and then transitioned into some TV and film and acting out in LA. And again, taking my body for all these different transformations for different roles that I was playing and different jobs that I was getting at the time. So I had this little side business of health and fitness, you know, over the course of 30 plus years of just doing some things on the side. As my acting career, we're starting to kind of fade away. I realized that there was an opportunity that I've been missing out on to really have an impact on people as well as also bring a lot of value for me and being able to use my skills and resources to create some purpose. And so I decided to go full steam into my health and wellness coaching business and build my business literally out of my backyard. You know, I've taken out a short loan from a friend of mine to build, build a little space in the backyard of this small 250 square foot apartment that I was living in and started bringing clients in one by one and just building this transfer transformation that I was proving we didn't need fancy gym equipment to get people into great health and great shape because we were working from the inside out. We were focusing a lot of nutrition. We were focusing on stress management. We were focusing on sleep. We were focusing on organization and preparation and just really learning how to put all of those pillars in place to create a ecosystem that would give somebody an opportunity to get into really great health and great shape physically, mentally and emotionally across all aspects. It was very fortunate to build a business quickly through referral base and then had an opportunity with that poker player. As you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, which was a really cool opportunity. You know, fortunately we won that bet. We was able to get him to 8.8% body fat at 10%. So we crushed that goal. Somebody who was in that circle of poker players happened to know somebody from the New York Post and they heard the story being talked about. They posted it in the newspaper and good morning America caught wind of it and just started to slowly gain some traction organically just having an opportunity to work with people around the US as well as internationally. So I started coaching and training people and building programs virtually before there was even apps that were out there to create opportunities for people to do online training. And so I was bootstrapping the business and building video libraries on Dropbox and just finding ways to just bring value to people no matter where they were in the world. And when COVID hit, it forced my business completely online, which was a direction I was taking the coaching business in general. I was finding that I had a lot more value and opportunity to create bigger breakthroughs with people working in this format as opposed to being in the gym working one-on-one. Oftentimes, people would come into the gym and we'd spend in a 30 minutes of our one hour session, just chopping it up and talking about what's going on in their day and you know kind of lose a little bit of speed and momentum of the training session and the intensity. And I felt at some degree it was losing some of its edge. And so I found that trying to build more independence within the individual by teaching them the tools that they need but allowing them some space to kind of grow on their own was real becoming an impactful approach to the process. And I use various different apps to be able to communicate and build accountability and have this really great structure to make it feel highly interactive and on demand for my clientele. And you know, just been able to successfully continue to keep building on that format and to stilt it as day, you know, I have had a lot of success working with people in that aspect. So it's you know, blessed as an opportunity but also just really exciting to be able to do something I love, something that I'm extremely passionate about and be able to you know, try to leave my footprint on this world by making an impact on individuals and watching it just translate in all areas of their life, not just in their health and fitness but you know, a rising tide raises all ships. So you see people's self-care and health and wellness start to level up. We just start to see these level ups in the career and other relationships and other personal goals and things that they're trying to improve in their lives. So it's just been really, really rewarding. And what I love about this is you really know what it's like to build from the ground up and what it's like to struggle. And I don't like to struggle. You don't like to struggle. Nobody likes to struggle. But foundationally, I feel we need to at certain points. And you know, you know how spiritual I am and I sometimes people when they misunderstand readings and it's like you get struggles put in front of you for a reason because it teaches you how to overcome and nothing gets put out in front of you that you can't overcome but you have to learn how to do it. And ultimately when you do that, you have a greater sense of appreciation. You have a foundation and you're able to do a heck of a lot more and appreciate what you have, right? It helps you build the confidence within yourself that you can you can literally create anything and overcome anything. You know, without without having those struggles placed in front of you without having those and being able to use critical thinking and tap into like resources that you have available and accessible or relationships that you've built over the years, finding ways to tap into that certainly as an entrepreneur, getting gritty builds those chops and that confidence to be able to know that, you know, no matter what type of adversity you face, you'll always figure out a way to get through that and create something great out of it, you know. My my the situation, get me even quoting Jersey Shore, but I heard him talk recently on one of his podcasts about how he's learned how to take his L's and turn his L's into lessons, you know, and I think that's just a great way to frame it, you know. I mean, we all we all take losses in our lives, no doubt. I've had many L's in my life, but you know, certainly I think going through my acting career is also a place where I built a lot of endurance and I built a lot of grit because when you're out there in the acting world, I think you spent some time in the entertainment industry as well. Now, you hear a lot more nose than you hear, yeses and you know, if you don't got thick skin and the ability to take a know and just keep plowing through because you believe so deeply in yourself and what you're trying to do, you know, it's going to be a hard journey. And so learning how to take those L's and turn them into lessons and just build something out of that is really, I think the value of going through those struggles and oftentimes when I found myself when I've gotten to the end result of something that I've been seeking or desiring, oftentimes it's kind of, it falls a little short in terms of like what I expected it to actually feel like because what was so rich was more the journey and the struggle and all the all the value that I gained going through the experience to get there. That's what was actually all of the goal as opposed to the actual end result. And so, you know, less struggle, I think, it's just like you said, maybe kind of wanes some of that appreciation for what it actually took to earn that. If you if you've given something versus earning something, it always just feels a little different. That's that's so true. And you know, you know, my past and my background with being in that industry and then selling drugs and the money was flying in and flying out just as fast it meant nothing to me. Every cent that I earn now means everything to me. It's accounted for. It's it's documented and it's through hard work and it feels good. And that's why I want to ask you and this is what I find it to be true. So I'm curious your thoughts on it. You, me, people like us in our industry, we part of our job is not just coaching and teaching. It's motivating. It's setting an example. It's helping people to be held accountable. And I think actually I don't think I'm not going to do that. I know that people that have had to be accountable people that have had to struggle. It's a lot easier for us to teach to motivate and for it to be easier for someone to maybe listen when they've seen someone else that's gone through it. You know, I don't recommend anyone go to prison like I did or go through some of the things that you probably made mistakes. However, you know, it used to kind of be stigmatized, you know, people that may have done what I did, for example, or browned upon. But I think that when you see how somebody overcomes it and what they do with it, it can offer hopefully a profound respect for the person in the individual for the willingness to change to try and never give up. So I wonder for you, with all the struggles that you've had in the way that you've had to constantly figure things out, which is a testament to, you know, who you are, doing feel like that makes you, I guess more adequately equipped to be an inspireer and a coach because coaching is not just factual base. There's so much more that goes to it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think the experiences that I've been through have just gives me a deeper sense of empathy to be able to connect with my clients, right? I mean, everybody everybody has a different level of struggle. And I think it's all relative, right? Like what you've been through, what I've been through, what somebody else has been through, you know, arguably we could say like those are the most challenging times in our lives, you know? So it's all relative. But if you don't have some of that experience, it can be a little bit more challenging to be able to relate to your client in a way that's commensurate with helping coach them through a critical thought process to get to the end result because it's not always as simple as saying, con man, like just get to the gym. Like what's the actual roadblock that's holding them back from feeling that level of like excitement or motivation to get to the gym. And so sometimes you just got to take it through some some deeper layers and it might be a little bit longer of a process to get to that, that, you know, that drive. You can't just force it there right away. And if you've been through some of those experiences yourself, you know how to slowly kind of walk through those layers. And it might take a little bit longer, but you also have a lot more assurance that you're going to get there with that person with that client, you know, because it's just a matter of time and you know, they need they need to be sort of handheld a little bit more through a particular situation. There's so many nuances to working with each individual. You know, but I think for me the biggest thing when I'm working with clients, the the thing that I'm really trying to do the most is help them get to this place of real truth and honesty within themselves and this high level of self awareness. So that whatever goal that we've set or that we're trying to achieve that they're being very real with themselves and how they're, you know, in the place that they're at currently and where they want to go. You know, I liken it to, you know, if we use a scale of reference of like scale of one to 10, 10 being the best you'll ever be in your life in terms of like mind body spirit and one being like the darkest, deepest, lowest place you ever been, you know, most people generally sort of live between like a three and a five. Right. And every now and then they get this level of motivation. They want to push hard and you know, they get to maybe like a seven. And in their minds, they think this is harder than I've worked in a long time. So that's seven sort of feels like a false end. Right. Right. And then they get comfortable and then they kind of slowly let those old habits and patterns creep back in. So they start to slide back towards that three again and they get to that three and they hate it and they remembered what they did to get to that quote unquote, false 10 and they could and get back it. But they never really realize that full potential of what it actually takes and how hard they have to work. And some of the sacrifices they need to make or know some of the ways they need to kind of reframe certain things in their mind to get to a true level 10. And so, you know, there's two things that can happen when you've got this big gap in terms of expectations and effort, the way that you reduce some of that, you know, some of that feeling or angst that people feel is that you either increase your effort to close that gap or you lower your expectations to close that gap. Some clients we need to increase that effort because they really want a specific outcome that's very, very high level like one percentage and that, you know, in order to get to that level, you've got to really increase your effort and your intensity and your activity. Other people, we might look at and say, Hey, listen, you know, it's nice that you want to be at that level, but realistically based on how your life is structured based on other things you enjoy in your life, you enjoy vacationing and traveling, you like to have drinks a few times a week, you like you indulgence and food like there's other things that they may enjoy. So in that case, we might if we want to be a little bit more realistic and say, But let's just reduce some of our expectations a little bit so we can close that gap on feeling, you know, less than or feeling pressure or whatever it might be so that we can get you to a place where you find something that's really honest and real for you in terms of a sweet spot because not everybody has to be a level 10 to be happy, you know, right? No, yeah, 100%. No, I've been there and I live it. So I get it and I love your approach. I love the way you're outlook on everything and that's one of the many things I relate to you on. I want to discuss with you some of your foundational beliefs. You know, I talk about this a lot that everything is very person to person specific, but I will be honest with everybody and I think you can attest to this when you're coaching people, you tend to have the certain things you lean to like, I'm a cardio guy. So I believe in cardio, right? So I believe in the implementation. Now it's different for everybody, but I think that it's very important. Some people argue against it. Yeah, I want to talk about things like that, but I want to start with diet because I think that for me, when I tell people and I want your thought on this too, I take this circle and I did this with the bodybuilders I trained and I take it with nutrition diet training and then supplements, whether it's PEDs or just basic supplements and I take a percentage of importance on where you're going to get and I argue that diet consumes at the minimum 75% of that. I think it's more closer to 80. The training is very important, but I would put that more in the 15 to 20 range and then the supplements, PEDs, whatever's that last little portion, 2 to 5%. So to me, diets everything, I want your thought on that first and then I structurally like diet wise, you're and once again, this is conducive to the person's goals, but in general, what's your kind of feeling on fats, proteins, and carbohydrates, your percentage breakdowns, what your favorite diet is for most people, to get them in the right metabolic phase and function and flexibility and that kind of thing. So I now have to agree with you that diet is definitely in that upper percentile, 75 to 80 somewhere around there because all health and also physical performance, it all stems from your gut, right? How good, how well adapted your gut microbiome is, how healthy your gut microbiome is, inflammation, etc., etc. The inflammation is one of the leading causes of all disease and disorder, number one, number two, if you have high levels of inflammation in your gut, you use somebody who's outspending lots of money on high quality foods, well, a lot of that high quality food isn't even getting absorbed. So you're just throwing all that money out the window and all that great nutrients out the window. So I really placed nutrition at the top of that. Nutrition, training, and sleep and recovery are probably the top three and I will throw supplementation and you know, PEDs or like T-art hormone replacement therapy as like my number four because at the end of the day, you could put hormone replacement therapy on top of a poor diet or training or sleep and it won't matter. It has no, you can't just inject testosterone and think that like everything just solves itself and you're gonna, you know, you're gonna drop the 10% body fat, you're gonna build a bunch of muscle and you're gonna feel better and your sex drive is gonna be through the roof. It doesn't work that way. You just have to sell a lot of people. A lot of people, right? But that's, I think that's important to note because I think that's sort of the image that's being pushed around hormone replacement therapy test, astron because testosterone is so, it's so more easily talked about and discusses so more prevalent nowadays. Everybody's very comfortable. It's sort of like a flex to say, yeah, I'm on hormone replacement therapy, whereas you know, 10 years ago, everybody was hush about it. Nobody wanted to talk about it. It was like my little secret, right? It's got frowned upon or look at as cheating. Now it's like, no, you're not taking testosterone? Like it's crazy, right? But I know people who are using testosterone replacement therapy and not feeling great, not getting great results because the foundation is not there, right? They're not getting seven to eight hours of sleep. They're still drinking a bunch. Their training is not where it needs to be. They're overtraining or under training. They're under shooting on macros on protein and in total calories. So there's just so many aspects to it that if you want to be somebody of that top percent of individuals who's in great health and great shape and as you're aging, people can't tell how old you actually are. These are things that you got to pay attention to. And nutrition is absolutely at the top of that list. Going back, I think the second part of your question was about nutrition in particular and how I adjust macros. I try protein is obviously king in that entire process. My whole diet, the way I write meal plans for individuals is really the premises around anti-inflammatory. And that I spend a lot of time with my clients going into education around the foods that you should be focusing on and consuming. They're going to reduce the amount of inflammation coming into the body and not just foods but like condiments, you know, beverages, teaching them a lot about how to read ingredients labels. Yeah. Just that they become this you got to start to become aware and know what you're doing and what you're what you're selecting and what you're putting in your body. Because otherwise, in your mind, you could be thinking that you're doing so many great things to try to reduce inflammation. But like there's little sneaky things that get into the diet that people don't think about that keeps driving those inflammatory markers up. And before you know it, you know, your your gut is a mess. You're not getting the results you want. You're feeling sluggish cognitively. You know, you're just being inhibited in performance all across the board. An example I love to use is something like sriracha. You know, it seems so innocent for a lot of people. They think it's just an innocent little hot sauce. Big deal is nothing really in it. But if you look at the ingredients, it's got xantham gum. Yeah. So with xantham and phlamatory gum filler, I ask. And you know, if you knew what to look for, then and you knew and you were educated about other products out there, a company called Yellowbird. I'm by the way, not endorsed by them. Or this is just a knowledge for the for the for the for the listeners out there. But there's a company called Yellowbird that you can find at Whole Foods. I think you find them at Sprouts as well. And they make a sriracha type product. It's actually called sriracha. It's all anti-inflammatory ingredients. It tastes just as good if not better. But if you're if you're somebody you eat sriracha every single day and you now swap it out with Yellowbird, you now start to reduce that inflammation pool by the day because you're reducing the exposure that you're giving your body on a daily basis, potentially multiple times a day. If you're if you're using sriracha on your meals often, like more than once or twice a day, I mean, it can it can really build up. So yeah, so proteins, King, education around inflammation is very, very important for me. I'm a big proponent of carbohydrates. But it's all about timing the types of carbs, timing your carbs around specific times. You know, and one is timing your carbs around your workout, but then also sort of timing your carbs around balancing out the sympathetic and parasympathetic state of the the tones of the body. And that's going to vary from individual, but I generally keep carbs moderate. You know, I probably don't go too heavy on a carbohydrate. I'm pushing people somewhere in the, you know, 150 to 200 grams of carbs. And then faster usually moderate to, but I'm but I'm teaching people how to space out that fat to carb intake and not not blending fast the carbs together too often. And that's just like the general overview. I mean, it gets I get much more specific when I'm working with, with an individual because you have to. Yeah, it's got to be nuances in terms of what's their body composition coming in? What are their goals? What are their athletic abilities? How much are they? How much output are they able to produce or work out? You know, some people have higher intensity workouts than others because they just physically are more capable. That dictates how I make adjustments to their macros. But within my program, the program is very dynamic at all times. I do photo updates to my clients every two weeks. You know, they're constantly I have an app that I use where they're self recording doing exercises in the gym and they load those videos into the app. And then I scream record my notes on top of their videos and my teaching about the biomechanics. But I'm also looking for exercise intensity. So I can see how they're training. And I use all of that anecdotal feedback to determine how I'm making adjustments to their program every two weeks or so whether I'm bringing carbs up, bringing carbs down, I'm listening to their impact, their feedback in terms of how they're feeling, how their body's shifting. There's so many elements that requires a lot of, you know, constant feedback and adjustment. But it's an opportunity for them to learn, which is what fund me. I just love reteaching this stuff. And also just trying to figure it out with each individual. It's like, you know, it's sort of my version of video games, you know, but I get to figure out and how to tweet, you know, how to tweet things in a live chemistry set to see how it manifests and just be able to watch, she's, watch somebody transform is really, really fun and exciting. But it's a heavy, heavy protein, generally, lots of grass fed meat, wildcock fish. I'll bring in some pastures chicken, you know, from time to time, we'll bring in some organic pastures eggs, you know, things of that nature. Just trying to, I try to balance out some of the chicken in the eggs, along with the pack and grass that meet just because we know chickens consume corn, grain and soy, even other rashes raised. And corn, grain and soy, really high in omega six, omega six, highly inflammatory to the body. So I don't ever like individuals going too heavy on, on, on one particular protein, especially animals eating corn and grain. So I try to balance that out where, you know, the dose determines the poison. So we try to try to smooth that, that inflammation curve out as much as we can. To be honest with you, I probably do chicken three to four times a month maybe at the most. It's funny because you know, like, probably what 10, 15 years ago, everything was a chicken and vegetable like boring. And that's like chicken and broccoli. Yeah, chicken and broccoli. I found a place at, or a company at Sprouts called pasture bird. That's one of the ones I found that is they, they've used very little, but like you said, I don't, and honestly, I don't really love chicken anymore except for thighs really. I adopted that healthy fat intake, you know, kind of prioritizing it with protein, obviously, but kind of more so like that. While still having a decent amount of carbs in there, not just totally blowing them off, I don't, I, I find benefit in the keto diet. I certainly do. So I don't want to act like that because I used to be just totally anti. And then I certainly changed my stance on it. But I do think that, that you do need some, and especially to stay metabolically flexible. So like, you know, I have had some pretty in-depth conversations with Ben, Azadi. And he's, you know, he's talked to me about you still need to have a couple days or a day a week where you have a higher carb day if you're too in lower carb. But see once again, like you were talking nuance for each person and seeing what works. Well, and the reason why that gets so nuanced too is because everybody's lifestyle is different. Yeah, that's right. So clients, I had some clients that work two, three hours a day, you know, they have very little like energy output. It's a very like easygoing lifestyle. They're, they're going to be less glycogen dependent and yeah, less glycogen needs. As opposed to somebody who is waking up at five in the morning, hitting a workout and then they're on Zoom calls from 8 a.m. all the way till 5 p.m. all day long. And they're because your brain activity is also burning tons of glycogen and tons of fuel as well. So it's like, you know, there's, that's why the feedback from the client is always going to be so important because putting somebody into a keto diet could work well. But if they start to give you feedback that, hey, mid afternoon, I'm crashing. I have no energy from two to five every single day. They might need a little, you know, glycogen bump, you know, of something in the middle of the day paired with some fat to slow down that blood sugar, bike and crash. Yeah, giving a little bit more sustained energy, you know, so that that's where it becomes sort of, you know, fun to play with that science a little bit, you know, and and get that feedback, but also teach that individual so that, you know, if they're going through their day at any given time and two o'clock in the afternoon, they know they're hitting a little bit of a slump. They've got a little thing of organic raw unfiltered honey and yeah, that's some blueberries right next to them at their desk and they take that little hit and all of a sudden they're like, man, I'm feeling great right now. Like this carried me for the next few hours on perfect. Like what a great, what a great skill set and you know, in sense of knowledge that have that much awareness and connectivity to your body to know what to reach for any given moment to give your body the fuel that it needs. I mean, it's just, you know, it's really, really neat to be able to teach people that. Right. Right. Yeah, it's just so new for each individual. It's just impossible, I think, to really, you know, put your sword in the ground on one particular diet or one particular training pro or call that's the best. No such thing, man. Yeah, there's only the best is what's best for the individual. Sure. You know, and I like that you are so based on information and knowledge because I think actually the main reason to me, why most people fail is it's, I mean, sometimes it's just the lack of wanting to do it, but I think it's a lack of knowledge, man, like in a lack of understanding, just like the carbohydrate talk, people can get really scared of them, but just some of the things you just listed, like certain types of fruits, I'll get people, oh, you can eat fruit. I'm like, dude, what? Like what are you talking about? That's just not true. Who told you that? And the honey, there's of course, there's bad carbs, there's bad fats, there's bad proteins. You know, I mean, less probably in the pro, but there are, there are, you can find things that are full of protein that are like completely filled with crap and ingredients otherwise. Protein bars, for example, like many, right? So there's bad things that are like candy bar, right? Yeah, a lot of them, man, I mean, geez, see, make your own, you know, and I think that's key and I love the whole breakdown and everything that we do has to be person to person specific and all the things you touched on, but also as we age, things change, as our, our activity levels, for instance, I can't fast 24 hours when I'm training as hard as I can. So what do I do? I condense it to where I can still get in 12 to 14 hour fast, hit the workout, eat like 2000 calories in a matter of a couple hours and still get through it, you know, and I try to get about 3000 with the intensity of workouts, but still have these two really big meals and then keep it. So you're not eating all day throughout the day. And that I found that's a work for me, but you, you developed that and figured out what's going to work for each person. Now, I want to talk about your client base and who you work with and how you how you kind of go about it. So you kind of work with entrepreneurs now or more, more well established business people, right? Isn't that kind of where you're at with what you do? Yeah, yeah, I'm actually just surprising the kind of fell into this niche, you know, you think in particular that I was trying to chase. But you know, I was working with a handful of high on real estate agents and, you know, fortunately, they had really great results and they, you know, real estate agents are really are well known for loving coaching. Yeah, so I really have enjoyed working with real estate because they really lean into and appreciate and value having a coach. So they're adapted to that mindset. But yeah, I've been fortunate to kind of slide into this little niche of high on real estate agents and high level entrepreneurs and, you know, my program at this stage is sort of a more of a referral basis, you know, humbly speaking, you got to kind of know somebody to get into my program, somebody who's been the program prior to the making their reduction just because the level of my program, it really requires a, you've got to have a high, high desire for one and make this transformation and make this change right out of the gate. Number one, number two, you know, I have so many layers of accountability built into my program. There's a lot of oversight, you know, it's not, it's not to babysit or to hand hold, but it's because this is the level of, of involvement and engagement people really need if they want to experience the kind of breakthroughs that they're talking about when they come to me. Everybody wants to look like a million, but not a lot of people want to put in the work that it takes to get there. And so what I really pride myself on is taking a look at some, and at an individual who has spent their, their life building their wealth and success at the expense of their health and wellness. And now they've got this infrastructure of all these things that they have worked so hard for in their lives and showing them where we can make some small additions, some subtractions and some substitutions to basically feel like it's a seamless integration of my program into their life, but the results that they're getting are dramatically different in a good way, right? And so learning that, you know, certain foods they should be focusing on, people are eating all day long usually anyways. It's just about learning what foods you should be eating. People are going to the gym and working out anyways, but they may not be performing the right exercises that are appropriate for them, or lifting with the right amount of weight or the right rep ranges or the right amount of rest period in between sets. You know, you're using good form and technique. You know, some people might be sacrificing sleep because they think in their minds like that grind culture is where it's at when in reality, the flex right now is more sleek, equals better recovery, equals better hormone, ballots, equals better results. You know, so it's being able to take an individual who is really operating at a high level and thinks more in ROI than they think in reps, and so that I can teach them where they can get the greatest ROI in the decisions that they're making on a moment to moment basis throughout the day to start producing this whole new way of thinking, acting, being and doing. That is as easy as waking up and taking their first breath when they once they get in the rhythm of these new habits and these new routines. Awesome man. So I'm curious, some of the challenges that you may have with, you know, people in, I don't want to see people in power, but upper level type of people, you know, they can be more challenging, more demanding, or do you find that they're very receptive and just really open to everything or is it just kind of a wide variety of people you run into it? And have you had to turn people down that don't really fit with your, you know, style of coaching because I think it's important that there's a real resonation between coach and client and sometimes it just doesn't work for whatever reason. So I want to get behind the scenes a little bit with you, you know, and how it rolls because I always told my wife when we had our gym and we had other businesses together, not all money's good money. That's one of the lessons I wanted to teach her right away. Like don't just take just because it's like, well, we can sell these memberships. Well, do you think they're going to end up costing us more in stress? You know, then what it's worth. So, you know, I think sometimes people that are gung-ho new to business or don't understand and they just take it, take, take, take, and it's like, man, just understand me that that's going to cost you way more than you have that you're going to actually get from it. Yeah, you're preaching to the choir with that one because I know, I don't, again, humbly speaking, I don't work with every single person that comes my way. I mean, when someone gets introduced to me that is interested in the program, you know, my consults are, are, you know, designed in a way to figure out whether or not, not if it's just a good fit for them, but if it's also a good fit for me because there's a certain, there's a certain it factor that I'm looking for from an individual that I know that I can partner with to create an amazing outcome. You know, I always present to the people that are more, you know, the potential clients that, hey, listen, if we do this, we're actually going into business together. We're going into business together and we're going to form an LLC and the LLC is you. You're hiring me as a CEO and you're the COO and your job is to go out and execute why I create the vision for the company. And so, that's to be taken very seriously and for some people, that's not what they're looking for and I'm okay with that, you know, again, no, no judgment on something like not everybody's looking for that level of coaching and training and are looking for that level of transformation. But for me, what I get the most out of is working with individuals who are that hungry for a massive lifestyle transformation, not just abs, right? Just getting abs, just getting a 10% buy fat, to me, that's a low level stake that creates a lot of pressure. Yeah. I think you just did in people who are looking to transition and transform their life that creates purpose and, you know, creates a lot of positive feedback loops and drive. That's got, I know that's going to create an opportunity for commitment and follow through an accountability. So those are high level stakes that create more purpose in my opinion. So, so that's it generally starts there for me in terms of that consult and just figuring out where people are at to make sure to be meeting each other in the right place and the right opportunity. Right. And, you know, yeah, I think the biggest challenge that anybody has coming into a program like mine is, you know, oftentimes they have an ever really experienced what it's like to feel like amazing. And so, what I try to do as quickly as possible is get them to stay as focused and as 100% on point in the program as they can right out of the gate. Because I know if they can give me two to three weeks of just being locked in on the diet, locked in on the supplements, locked in on the training, locked in on all of their mobility work, pre workout and evening mobility, making sure you're getting really great sleep, they're managing their stress, they're doing all their recovery protocols. If they're doing all that for two to three weeks, inevitably almost every single time I've got people coming back and Trees going holy shit. My ACE looks different. The inflammation is down. My gut is better. I'm digesting food better. My energy is through the roof. Now, they've had an opportunity to gain evidence of what it looks and feels like to take yourself care to that level. Yeah. And I no longer have to try to work so hard to drag somebody along through the process. Now they're bought in and now we get to like dance together. Now it's like, hey, tell me what to do. I'll do it. Follow my trust the process. Like we built that trust very early on because they got the evidence themselves. Not they're not just listening to me speak and they're assuming that it's just theory or he's just preaching science. No, they've actually felt it themselves. They've gotten that feedback and evidence. It then allows us to just launch from there. So if I can get a two to three week window right out of the gate of people just locking in, which generally I do, of course, there's some people that struggle a little bit more. Not often people who are intentionally being like dismissive. It's usually people trying to get the rhythm and they might struggle a little bit with iron and the flow. Some people are a little bit slower than others to get there. But generally people are pretty quick to get there just by the way that I design things within my program and work with nuances individually. You know what I can get for a result from somebody really quickly. So they can taste and feel and smell what it feels like to get that self-care really, really high. Once you experience that, you never want to go back to the old way they were operating it. And so it gets fun really, really fast and you start that they start to feel that addiction because nothing tastes better than feeling amazing. And so it's just a lot less convincing and struggling to pull them along versus like now we're in this together. We're just playing ball. Yeah, a couple things you brought up. I remember when I first started doing videos and I always get these. I just want to look good naked like questions. How do I do that? And at the time, you know, I was like early 30s new to this and I just kind of laugh at it. And now I look at it completely different like more analytically and more like almost in a, I almost feel bad for the person that's where their mind is and not fully understanding what you said, which is the pressure that comes along with that. And when you're only focused on, well, I just want a six pack and yeah, we can all get it. We can get it without drugs. We certainly can. That's proven because some people think you can't without taking things. But then when you get it, it's not getting there that's hard. It's keeping it. It's, it's, it's just like when you become a champion, it's actually getting there's the easy part, keeping it when the target's on you, when the pressure is hard, when it's more difficult to do it day in and day out, that's the hard part. And that's where the work comes in. And I think that people don't understand what you're getting and what you should really be trying to get throughout this process. You know, it's, it becomes a mental grind, not just a physical grind and was having the mental problems. Then you have the internal problems, you have the inflammation, you got the lack of sleep because you, your, your mind's all over the place. And it can compound into a lot of problems. So you have a very, very big job that people don't understand that I want to stress because a lot of people, it's like the people that try to tell you how to run a business that have never ran one, you know, and, and that do that. They don't understand the different costs and expenses and how well, they look at the raw component of stuff. Well, you, you have this big of a markup. Yeah, well, what about paying this, this, this, this, and this, and then you see the margin goes, down to nothing. Well, with you, you have far more that you have to do aside from just designing a diet and fixing it and making sure somebody's training right, you're almost like a psychologist throughout all of this, or a psychiatrist, listening to, I mean, yeah, I take, I take notes, you're usually on multiple clients. I know what they're doing, when they're doing it, why they're doing it at all times. Like that's the level that I get involved. And the reason why that's important is because as I'm making those notes constantly, something's coming up in a few days for them that I just sent them a text about to remind them, hey, make sure you start packing and prepping your, your protein powder, your supplements. You got a trip coming up on Saturday. You got to make sure that, you know, I don't want you doing this last minute because you're going to be flustered. You got a lot of things on your plate. If you're organized now, it's going to be a much smoother process, less stress. It's going to, it's going to, it's going to reduce the chaos for you to start. Oh, yeah, thanks for the reminder. Appreciate that. I'm actually trying to train their brain how to think like an individual who wants to maintain this high level of self-care and health and wellness. This is the way you need to be thinking and preparing and, and, and think and organizing your life. If that's something that you want to maintain, it's not just about, you know, the actual act of eating the food all the time or, you know, it's actually how do you set your life up so that things just flow smoothly. And that takes a lot of practice. And most people are conditioned to think that way. So it's tried to choose them how to think in the same manner that's commensurate with somebody who cares a lot about their self-care and their body and the way they feel. You know, you could easily go on a trip somewhere and be like, God, I forgot to pack my protein powders. I forgot to pack my snacks. I forgot to pack my supplements, you know, all these things that I usually cake with me that help you maintain a high level of self-care. Yeah, I think we're gone for a week on a trip and you feel like shit for, God, you didn't plan and prepare. Yet that's something who takes that very seriously, they don't forget that stuff because he's that important to them. So they make the time to be organized and prepared and plan ahead to make sure there's always operating at that high level, right? So it's again, I don't fault people for not thinking that way. They're just not conditioned and used to thinking that way. So a lot of times, I'm sending, I'm shoulder tapping people with text messages and just dripping them with the the the foresight and the way they need to be thinking ahead because I got notes on, I know exactly what's going on in their life and what's coming up and I know they forgot about this detail, but I'm going to remind them because it me reminding them and then them taking the action, they're getting into the habit of starting to think that way. It's kind of like it's like the training wheels for a period of time and eventually, you know, we kicked the training wheels off because now they're now they're thinking this way. Now they're organizing and planning this way. So, you know, it eventually starts to be something that passes off on to them. They pick up and start running with it on their own. But again, you know, for each individual, some people are taking that hand off a lot faster than others. Some people that takes them a little bit longer to learn how to ride with those training wheels. You know, so it's it's a little different for everybody. But, you know, it's it's it's really about training people's what I love is teaching people that thought process and how much you need to care if you really are adamant about wanting to look, feel and function a certain way in your life. It doesn't just it's not just automatic. You don't just wake up and feel amazing and wake up and walk amazing. Now, you don't just wake up and have amazing blood work. You work hard at maintaining a lifestyle that when you get your blood work done every six months and the doctor is going, man, like you're 50, but you know, physiologically your body is, you know, is arguably, you know, 35. What are you doing? Well, I pay attention to my nutrition. You know, I get eight hours of sleep. You know, like I'm taking a lot of great high quality supplements to fill in the gaps where I'm lacking in certain areas. Like I care a lot about my body. You've got to put in that effort. Otherwise, you're just going to you're going to be in the position that a lot of people are, which is they react to something. They react to an event and then they take that action after they're in a position where they're being forced to have to do something rather than doing it initially ahead of time to prevent or mitigate any type of, you know, catastrophic health. And this is a this is something that you live. This is not a go sign up with Chris or whoever you're going to sign up with do it for six weeks, get into this and then move on you need to understand that this is a change in your entire life and outlook and not only trajectory, but day to day, how you live it. Right. You know, I know like people like you and I can be extreme probably to some people, but when it comes to people, oh, you got to live and you got to you got to this way, you can't really live or enjoy your life if you're just completely screwed up internally and your health markers off. I'm not saying you're sick. You have like if you don't have good cognitive function or resilience, like if you don't feel good about yourself, you don't have to help them in that self-opinance, you know, arguably that that is not living a good quality life. Right. Oh, just have a drink or it's okay. It's just one or two or three, but you know, the more that I've studied and I learned even one drink is so poisoned inside your body and then you accumulate that dough. It's just one here. It's just one there and then you do it over the course of a year. Man, it's not good and there are ways that you can live your life and still do it in a good way like that you're teaching and that we're developing, you know, and I mean, when I go on, you know, because I go speak at a lot of conventions and go do, you know, appearances and things, I don't ever get a place without a kitchen and cook all my own stuff. And I mean, I may be like I say, I take a scale and I still measure and I do everything and that's fine, but I do it with precision because I want to make sure that everything that's going on is always in check and you know, once or twice here, they're okay, but when it can be, it can accumulate and when once or twice becomes this, once or twice a week, and then you, if you sit down and add up the accumulation, because I'm a data guy, just like you, I want to see it on paper and I don't want to just go, oh, and thinking my head out was just here there. I want to look down and break down the numbers and see and you look at that and you go, well, holy shit. Yeah. Look at that accumulation. It's like the guys that tell you, you know, what is 12 grams of sugar and something and they show you in a spoon or a container and that's how much sugar you just ate once. Think about doing that 20 times. You know what I mean? Because it makes me think about, you know, some of these, some of the clients that I work with, you know, they run, you know, a multi-million dollar organizations and, you know, if you ask them about their P and L for their business, they'll tell you that thing inside and out. They don't look back at their hand. But if I ask them, what's their cholesterol, what's their, you know, what's their, whether they're triglycerides, what's their AST, ALT, if I ask them, what's their testosterone levels? They have no clue, no clue. And so that analogy usually smacks, smacks people in the face pretty fast to realize there is no greater, more important number or data sheet that you need to be paying attention to than your blood work because without that, nothing else matters, nothing else matters. And so, you know, and that's in particular why I actually really enjoy working with, you know, an older demographic. I generally am working with, you know, clients that are, you know, late 30s plus, you know, all the way into like early 70s because at that age, it's more important than ever for us to be really paying attention to that blood work and, you know, paying attention to how your body moves in mobility and flexibility, you know, because those are the prime ages where things can turn really bad or you can really, you know, hold things off from the aging process. There's a missing that I love that age does not dictate how you move, how you move dictates how you age. And so, mobility is a prime foundation of my, my programming. And, and also making sure that people are doing blood work because if you don't move well and if you don't know what's going on under the hood, then without those two things, you know, it's going to make it very, very difficult to build long-term sustainability with an individual in terms of keeping their health in a really great place so that they live a high quality life for a long period of time, which is what most people really want. And, you know, in your 20s and 30s, you're not really experiencing a lot of those aches and pains and you're not, you know, you're, you're going out after a heavy night of drinking your bouncing back the next day and going right back at it. Like, you don't really feel that. You're not thinking about getting your blood work done and making about, you know, high levels of responsibility and accountability, you know. So, but as we get older, that certainly becomes much more important. So, one person might sort of, you know, position it to guys like you and I as extreme, whereas I would say it's not, it's not necessarily extreme because I do believe in trying to find balance, but it's more about just awareness and paying attention to the things that are really important. You could agree. Agreed. You know, you can't, you can't argue that paying attention to your health and looking at blood work and making sure that all of those markers, you know, are in a good place. That is an extreme. That's smart, right? As an owner of a company, if you took your eye off your PNL, what do we call that extreme? Because you're always looking at the numbers. You know, because you take your eye off the PNL, your business could fail and you're out of business. Lots of people lose their jobs. You lose your lifestyle. You lose your income or a roof over your head. Like what happens to your family, right? But it's just viewed a little differently. And I've not until somebody faces a health crisis till they realize, oh, wait, it's not extreme for me to be paying attention to these things. I need to, it's been a massive blind spot. I need to start looking at these things and making sure it's a priority. So yeah, that's a great analogy, dude. Like seriously, I mean, that is so spot on. And it's a fact, if you're not analyzing the financials daily, and that's a daily thing of the many tasks, especially with a larger business, you take one day off and you could have a problem, same with inventory, same with anything else. And I don't think people take that as serious with their health at all. And they'd let days turn into weeks, turn into months, turn into years, no blood work, no this, no that. And then people wonder why they find one day, oh, I have cancer, oh, I have this. And I'm not saying that that can't still happen even to people that take care of this is because it can. But cancers of it happening are a hell of a lot less, but also to also to that, you know, the body gives us a lot of signs. The body, I call it the body, I call it body language, right? Our bodies are always speaking to us. Sometimes it could be like heartburn or indigestion. Sometimes it could be brain fog. Sometimes it could be like chronic IBS or like, like, as your body speaking to you, and some people are just getting the signs, but then they're just blowing right through the stop signs as if it's like not paying attention, not being aware. And then, you know, shortly down the road, something pops up and they're thinking themselves, man, this came out of nowhere. When in reality, this is your body's been screaming at you, you know, trying to get you to wake up and you're just not paying attention, you know? So again, these are things that like I'm really passionate about, about teaching this level of awareness and, and, you know, sense of self to pay it when what to pay attention to so that people are just realizing their potential of how they could look, feel, and function on a day-to-day basis. Because once you get that evidence, it's, you'll never go back. Like, it's very easy to give up things from the past when you've experienced something amazing in the present that just shows you something otherwise. It's not about just listening to a podcast and hearing us talk or listening to the likes of anybody like Peter, Etiya, or Andrew Huerman, or any, you know, anybody who is in this space, we're all sort of talking about the same things, the same benefits, but until somebody actually experiences it for themselves, you know, it sometimes can be really challenging for them to take action. And so if I get an opportunity to work with an individual, you know, I'm always asking lots of questions about just trying to understand something like how they're feeling, what's going on because sometimes they don't even know what to think about or look for or pay attention to. And so I'm trying to extract as much of that as I can because there's a couple things that I can help improve quality of like and quality of health. That's enough for us to get some evidence to really just dig in and just keep pushing and realize and unlock our tremendous amount of potential for that individual. I love it, man. I have like 20 other things I wanted to talk to you about and we're out of time. I think we need to do. Yeah, I think no, I think for sure because I want to get into some other aspects like overcoming a lot of bad information. I wanted to talk about cholesterol myths and stuff and get into some more deeper intricate detail. I think this was nice to kind of cover over the aspects of what it's like to be as a trainer, you know, things for you that you deal with as a coach. So this is a really good part one and then we'll set up a part two where we can get into more in depth and detail controversial shit that we want to get into and talk about. But real quick though, so right now to hire you, there's a protocol to go through and how can people get in with you that want to work with you and what kind of, I don't know, what kind of level do they need to be at because you know that you have your certain demographic that you work with. So what can people do to work with you and follow you if you put out content or anything like that? Yeah, it's interesting. I actually, I'm kind of counter culture in the sense of, you know, what you see people in the fitness industry nowadays. I don't really post a lot of content. And the reason being is that I really dedicate and allocate all my time and my resources to the clients I'm working with. And if I'm out making lots of content, it takes away from my ability to be present with my clients and you'll bring that value to them. So worse. And I just find a lot more value there than I do. There's plenty of guys in the fitness industry who were popping lots of content and are probably far better than me at doing it. But for me personally, I just really enjoy making sure I have that space and that time to work with my clients and be available for my clients. Sure. But you can certainly have still I still have a presence on Instagram. It's just my name, Chris DeVecchio. So you can find me on Instagram. If somebody's interested in the program, I think the easiest way is to just email me Chris at PMVLife.com. We have maybe we can add to the show notes somewhere here at the end of the the end of the podcast. But just send me a brief email, just kind of giving me a little background and that you'd be interested in setting up a consult. And then from there, we would we would deep dive in a 45 to 60 minute consult to kind of figure out whether or not this is really a good fit for the both of us. But yeah, that's the easiest way to get a hold of me. And I'm looking for individuals who are really at a place in their life where they're ready for a traumatic change, a very, very impactful change. This is something that it's a lot of work, but it's also really fun because you're learning about yourself. And you know, one thing I've learned about myself is that just when I think I've got it all figured out is like, I've got to say, I got so much more to learn about myself. So I mean, for me, I'm just I'm sponge. I'm soaking up, you know, new information and new studies and research and just in on top of that, just learning new little nuances about myself as I get older and age, you know, so through the process. So it's you know, but people who are really just passionate about wanting to create a pre radical change in their life, that's who I'm excited to work with. So if that's you out there, you know, it should be an email. I'm happy to connect and so time to chat and learn about you and see if this is a good fit. But I really appreciate the time today, man. This is, you know, we've had lots of chats just on the side, you and I, I don't think we've ever gone this deep into our own personal methodologies and beliefs. So I'm grateful for this platform because it gets us deeper as well, you and I. Yeah, I mean, to me, this wasn't even like a recording or a podcast or work or anything. It's just another badass conversation that I got to spend some time with you and chill and not work at all to me. I mean, and not that it really ever is, but this is different, you know, this is more like, okay, sweet man. Now I'm really just more stuff that you would I have in common and then I can learn. I like to learn different approaches and different mindsets that people have. I, one of the things that I used to do that I am so thankful that I don't anymore is just always my way is the only way or the best way and not necessarily ever is that true. In fact, for times of not, I find that not it's really not, you know, I take bits and pieces from people and I implement and I correlate and I put it with my own and try to derive the best and I think when you realize that what you speak isn't gospel, you know, and and learn from everybody and sometimes it's learning what they do wrong. You know, but it there's always a lesson and so I value the time with you, especially since we relate so well, but you you open my eyes to maybe things that I either didn't notice or maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong about or maybe it at least gives me a well, maybe I'll check this out and see what what I think and it's just like foods I've eaten or things that I've done where I've had this in my head that I don't like it without even trying it. I don't know, maybe that's the older I get, maybe it's the more enriched with God I get, maybe it's who knows what, but I'm just thankful for people like you that can make it easy to really learn and take a look within and say, well, shit, this guy, you know, he's got something different and so I appreciate it, man, and you know, thank you, it's gonna be candid, like I said at the beginning, just you will never, ever, ever, ever be underappreciated or forgotten just the way that you were with me initially with barely even knowing me. So I value it to the highest extent, man, really. Thanks for sharing that, man. So it's been a pleasure. How we came together was a through a mutual friend, obviously, and he was right with his instincts about wanting to connect us. So yeah, God, grace, brother, that's it. I have no, I have, when I have no answer, it's very simple, there's always an answer, you know, so I appreciate it. I appreciate the time and I look forward to recording again. So and maybe it'll be in person next time. I hope. Awesome, brother. Well, thank you again. All right, everybody. I really, really, really hope that this hits home for you and it gives you a better, broader understanding of so many different aspects of health and fitness and what goes along with it. This has been a pleasure and an honor to have my friend, Chris here. So stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jamelli and Chris DeVecchio signing off.