Back on the Menu: Kristen Kish Dishes It All (First Guest Episode Re-Release)

This week on The Chef's Cut, on core week number two, we are throwing it back to our very first guest episode with the one and only Kristin Kish. All the good times that we love, this was one of our favorite episodes and we think that you will love to hear it. Enjoy and happy holidays. Hello everybody, welcome to this episode of The Chef's Cut. I am Adrienne Cheetham. I am Joe Flam. So today's guest, super exciting. Joe, your friend, my friend, everybody's friend. Friend of the people. Friend of the people, chef and show host, Kristin Kish. Now, and New York Times bestseller. Yes, her new book, Accidentally on Purpose, is officially a New York Times bestseller. She is the host of Bravo's Top Chef. She's an all around badass, has a restaurant, the Arlo Gray in Austin, Texas, and she is just one of the coolest people you will ever meet in your life. Some of the best hair in the game too. Oh, well-quaught. So well-quaught. That flow is top tier. I mean, she puts you to shame, Joe. It's a joke. It's a joke. Standing next to her is very, very fun, but also wildly embarrassing when you're trying to look at. It's also very intimidating. I didn't realize how tall she was until I met her in person one time. I was like, oh. Yeah, but just, you know, one of those people who's an incredible chef, better person, and a ton of fun. You know what I mean? Super quirky and just, I've always had a blast every time I've gotten the opportunity to work with her. That's right. You've done the dish with Kish. Yeah, I've done, I've judged some episodes of Top Chef with her, done the dish with Kish with her, and every time it's been an absolute blast, just chopping it up with her. Oh, and Joe, we have something super special that I'm really excited about. Our podcast is officially sponsored now by San Pellegrino. So we want to give a special thank you to San Pellegrino and the Young Chefs Academy. They're providing mentorship opportunities. They're really helping push the industry forward through mentorship. And that's a huge part of what needs to happen to help keep our industry moving forward. So let's, let's bring her in. This is our episode today with Kristen Kish. Hey, Kristen. Welcome to the show. We are so excited to have you here today. Hi, friends. You are one of our favorite people in the food industry. Likewise. I was like, wait, Joe and Adrian have a podcast now? I was like, what is what is happening? Like, worlds colliding in the greatest of ways. In the best way, Joe and I are old friends actually every time. We're both from Chicago. And we met on Top Chef, but we have become like besties. We're kind of like cousins. So every time I go to Chicago, we're either shutting down a restaurant, a coffee shop, or something like there is no trip to Chicago where I don't hang out with Joe. That's it. I got a blackout three hours in my schedule. I'm like, oh, A.G. is coming to town. Here we go. Do you know, I noticed, you know, I maybe I've always clocked at Adrian, but I just didn't realize until you just confirmed that you're from Chicago. I was like, you have, you have the voice. You have the. No, most people say I don't sound like Chicagoan, which kind of pisses me off, but. She has it. It's like, it comes out. It's like in little bits, but she has like, you know, Adrian's dad's from Mississippi and she went to school at like, you know, Florida Atlantic University. Florida A&M, agricultural and mechanical. Thank you. You know, somewhere, somewhere where she was on the drumline with Nick Cannon. And, um, and, and so she has like a weird, like Southern Montana twang thing sometimes where she's not like super South sidey, but like you hear it come out, especially when she's home or she's talking like other Chicago people, you're like, oh yeah. Oh yeah. You're one of us. Joe is just. I can smell the bright green relish in your blood. Sport peppers. Give me a sport pepper. Yeah. And so it's so funny. I actually, so I knew Kristen like through the industry, but we had never met in person until we were on the same flight going to the Cayman cookout. And I don't, Joe, I don't know if you remember, but a couple years ago, like in January, the whole flight system, you both just flexed on me so hard. No, shut up. Which is, which is. You know, just classic. You can have a small plane flying to the Caymans and you know, who do you run into? But Kristen. Oh, Kristen. She was like my aisle partner. Yeah. And it was this day of like this massive meltdown at all the airports. So our flight from New York to Miami was delayed by like five hours or something crazy. So we're sitting on the plane. Like we're not going to make this connection. Like hi, I'm Adrian. Hi, Kristen. Like I know you like, I think we're going to the same event, right? And we ran through the freaking airport in Miami. I'm like all out of breath. I'm huffing and puffing. Kristen's just like on a steady stride. Yeah. I thought I had decent cardio, but that airport fucking put me to the test. And Kristen's like sneaky, like kind of tall too. So she's got that stride on her. You know what I mean? Where it's like she looks, she looks fast. It was like a gazelle. She was like a gazelle. I would say that. But I remember, Adrian, we were at, we were at the airport in my luggage, like bad mistake of checking luggage in the first place, but a check luggage and we were there and like they lost it. And I want to know like, were you guys sitting on the plane for a while and like doing that thing and like, should I say hi to her? Should I say hi to her? And then it was like, okay. I waited until everybody finished boarding and I was like, hi. Yes. But we weren't in the air being like, should we say something? Like we said something. Right. We acknowledged each other from what I remember. How did you first meet Kristen Jo? I think we met filming Top Chef, right? The first time, I believe it was. When? Is that possible that it was doing it at the Top Chef? No, because you guys were seasoned in 15, yes? No, I know, but you weren't on my season. I'm saying when you took over as Judge Jury and Executioner. Oh, yes. Is that when we first met? No, fucking way. I had been to your restaurant. No, I've been to your restaurant, Jo. Oh, you came to my restaurant. Yeah. You came to my restaurant before that. You were there with your family. I believe you were there with your parents and your brother and your wife and you were like, hey, I'm at Chicago. Can I come? And I think that might have been the first time we met there. But it feels like our weird little Top Chef universe is like, I've seen you guys on television. So, naturally, I know you so well. Right. And when I see, it's like you're seeing each other and you're like, have we met before? I'm not really sure because I feel like there's so much. Right in my mind, I'm like, that can't be what we actually want to do. We're like Instagram friends even before meeting in real life. Yeah. And there's some people that just have that coolest hell vibe. I immediately knew Joe before I knew him. I was like, OK, we're going to be cool. And you have that kind of like, most chefs are kind of weirdos. We're kind of weirdos. We're kind of quirky. And I think those are the best people. And you get that vibe off people. And when I saw Kristen on the plane, I was like, oh, we're already good. Well, and I think for me, it's like when I meet, like meeting chefs like Kristen, like Kristen, you're so, you're so like, you know, all like the pictures of you and your chef whites are so pressed. And like Adrian's the same way. Like you both have that like very fine dining. Like, you know, I organized my spoons before I left for work today. Like, you know, just like super, super tight. And I'm always like, I always get very intimidated meeting chefs like that because I'm like, I am like a rolling disaster. No. Just coming in hot. Not at all. Like super loud and just, you know, coming in and I'm like, they're just gonna like not want this. No, we want that. And you're pulled together by the way, you like, I've seen how you run your kitchens and your restaurants. And if that's any indication of who you are as a chef and as a leader, like you're very much pulled together, Joe Flan. Well, thank you. But it's a it's a it's a very like loud, chaotic thing that I really like. And then I'm always worried when I meet like, you know, because like seemingly it's like, I'm like, oh man, like, you know, this like Chris and Kish is gonna be like so like tight about everything. And it's like, you're one of like the biggest, goofiest weirdos I've ever met. And I mean that the kindest way possible. And it was like so evident from the first time when we filmed Top Chef together when you took over, I think it was the Milwaukee season. Yeah. Where we we had to eat all the Mili Waqe. Oh, Mili Waqe. Yes, we ate all the hops. And I got Adrian, we ate 15 dishes of people had to cook with hops. Oh, not good. I got so sick afterwards. Was the resin like coating your mouth? It was it was like, it was like when I was like 15 and I had hidden some weed in my room and then like my parents found like the bowl I was smoking weed in. So I get rid of the weed. So I just ate all the weed. Oh, God, no, like that's what it like took me back to it was disgusting. Like it I was like so sick the next day when we had a filled the elimination challenge. I'm like pounding Pepto Bismol because I'm like all I do not like this is like, I can't like shit my pants at judges. You know, this will be a horrible episode for me. They will not invite me back or I'll be invited back as like a horrible reminder. But you know, when I first met Chris and just like filming with her, it was so fun. It was so light. And you know, you know, Chris, you're so genuine that that's what I appreciate. You have such a great natural vulnerability about you have like, oh, like, you know, you're like, oh, I'm kind of like nervous, but I'm excited. And it's like, okay, cool. I feel that way too. And I think like your openness about it made it so fun to film with you because it's like, oh, yeah, like this isn't really what we do. Like we spent our whole lives learning how to do something else. And then they're like, hey, go be good at this thing that you weren't ever supposed to do it. Correct. You're like, oh, yeah, no, like I'll just be like a TV host now. Like I'm going to run a TV show. Like, you know what I mean? And that's what you're doing. You've just like floated to it naturally. But I don't think people realize how like absolutely completely insane that is. Yeah, that takes a special skill set to be able to go from one world that's completely different to another. And that actually kind of brings us to our first segment. So a few years ago, I judged with San Pellegrino, the Young Chef's Academy. And that is all about mentorship. And the person who won in New York was Daniel Garwood. He was in CDC at Adam X and JP was his mentor. And, you know, it was like a really cool moment to see him coaching him through this kind of competition because Daniel's like, I've never cooked in a competition before. Like this is weird. This is a different format. And so like to see JP kind of like coaching him through that at the Young Chef's Academy was really cool. Who was a mentor that kind of coached you? Did you have anybody to help you with that transition? Well, it's hard to pinpoint when it first started because I think as chefs, we develop our personalities. Like long before we even know we want to become a chef. Like it's almost like which came first, the chicken or the egg. Are we the kind of people that could be chefs or are we the people that turned into it because we had to learn all along the way? And I think we naturally have, of course, this interest in cooking. We all kind of loved the idea of it. But then because it is such a specific skill set, not the cooking part, but the personality portion of it all. We're a little like awkward. We like things organized. It's slightly type A in a lot of different ways. And I feel like I naturally already was that kid of like structure and organization. And then I found cooking and I was like, okay, well, now these two things are emerging together and I'm a better cook because I'm already this kind of weirdo kid. So all through culinary school, watching television shows, watching emerald, and I grew up watching Food Network and Rachel Ray. And I would watch these people and they would just kind of flow and move. And that's when I learned how to move in a kitchen, I think, I think because everything was staged and organized where there was no wasted movements at all. So I think it probably started with television. And then from there, obviously mentors and culinary instructors, some of which I learned what I did not want to be. One of them was so terrifying. He, I had my, I took sauce's class. I forget his name, but he was so scary. And I was like, I don't ever want to be this scary. Like there's something like I wasn't learning and it's the only class I got to see. And I think not because I wasn't good at it, but because I was scared shitless of this guy. And so then you have the guys like McGinnis who taught you through like this joy of cooking and happiness and no fear or ego at all. And then, you know, of course, all of our chefs that we worked for over the years, they instill a little bit of them. We take what we like, we leave behind what we don't and we just continue evolving. I love that. You know, I thought one of the most interesting things that your book to was you're talking about, I can't remember the name of Barbara Litch's restaurant where you were doing like the small like tasty menu cooking demo kind of things for people. Stir. That's what it was. And like the first place I worked at, you know, I worked, there was like a chef's counter up in front. You know what I mean? At the time was like very novel. So you had to like talk to people while you cook. And I felt like that gave me such an advantage in my career from like having early on had to like kind of break that, you know, that whatever, whatever you want to call it, that fourth wall of like, you know, interactive. You know, interacting with the guest and how it makes us able to connect with our guests and send the hospitality. And I think like just reading about that, it gives such a clear and natural like, oh, this is why you're so good at hosting these shows. You know, I mean, this is why you're so great on TV. Like this is why, you know, you're, you're such a natural presence on like Top Chef now as, you know, as running it. And I think that's like such a cool connection. Like it feels so natural at least watching it. I'm sure you worked very hard on it. And I think it also has to do with like the type of person that you are like, Joe, you're like this in your kitchen. Like I've heard you talk to your sous chefs. It's like you're just a genuine person. So if you're comfortable being yourself in all types of settings, then I think the transition to hosting and being on television, isn't that strange or isn't that odd because you're already so comfortable being yourself. And you're not playing a part. You're just maybe hitting some lines, but there's nothing fundamentally about you that's different. Correct. And I think it's because like, you know, I think stir was an incredible exercise in understanding what it felt like to be in front of people, but it took a long time to get comfortable in that role. And I can't say that it took a long time to get comfortable in hosting television because I think that the projects that I chose to do, like I'm not taking every opportunity that was presented to me on television. I said no to about 80% of them. And the ones, the 20% that I did say yes to were the ones that allowed me to be who I am. And so you don't have to think so hard about it. And like top chef, like Tom put it to me in like the most perfect way that I could understand on my very first day of filming. He's like, this is what you do this every day. We have conversations about food. We eat. We give critique. We give, we have conversations with chefs. It's exactly like pre-mail and like stand up before service, how you address your team. He was like, all you got to do is talk like that. And I was like, huh, you're right. I have been doing this for over two decades. Way to go Tom for the win with that advice. He is. He dropped gems. Like throughout the season we were on. He dropped some freaking gems all the time. He was like that kind of quiet strength behind who would just be like, I'm like flailing around like on top chef because it's like, I had never cooked my own. I've always been working for other chefs. And so when I got there, I had no concept of what it's like, do something, meet and potatoes for 500 people. I'm like, I can do anything. Literally, you can do anything. So how do you narrow down the scope of what you want to do? And Tom was like, it's just cooking. Like you've been cooking for what 16, 17 years. Like you're just cooking. There's just cameras on you. Yes, it's weird and it's different and it's a new kitchen, but like you're still just cooking. Like just make it taste good. It was like, oh yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, you kind of forget when you're in a new space and like television is a whole different realm. But the beauty of Top Chef and the people that are on it, Tom, Gail and all the guests that roll through is that we're all filming a TV show, but we're all people that genuinely love and want to see the success of the people competing. So like there are no tricks. There are challenges, but nothing is, you know, we're not getting mystery baskets with like, you know, stuff just to trip us up. Like it is actually there to help push you. Oh, here's a bag of Jolly Ranchers, like a tin of long cut Copenhagen and like a flank stick. Go. Right. It's like, what are we doing here? Tom stuffed me and Joe one night with a whole lobe of foie gras. It was like right before the finale. Oh yeah, he cooked us dinner. Yeah, he cooked us dinner up in the hotel room. Him and Graham Elliott. Yep. It was so awesome and like I was so there's we have a picture of me and Joe laying on the couch because we were literally like we have to eat everything on this table. We're laying on the couch like both about to vomit because we were so full. We literally housed everything they cooked. I remember the next day I was just like being Adrian or the kitchen like prepping for the Nali and I'm like, I'm just sweating foie gras. Yeah, I have foie gras coming out of my board. I'm just like feel it dripping out of me. She's like, I'm going to die. And we're cooking an altitude to you know, at the top of the top of Aspen Mountain just dripping foie gras out of our pores. We have a segment that we call review review. Oh yeah. And this is where there are sorry, some things should not be so democratized and reviewing. You know, it leads for high entertainment. Like once you can get past like the oh my God, I can't believe people talked about me or my food or my team or my business like this. Like, you know, you can only laugh at it. Yeah, so Joe, Joe, do you want to break down review review review review review is kind of our our happy time where we get to clap back at one star reviews on the internet from our businesses, our friends, businesses. Any ones we can find because it's just you know now I have three restaurants so it's like I get three times the ridiculous reviews as much as I'd love to say I'm better than it. I can tell you the first thing I do every morning is I open the reviews and if there's a bad one I read that one. If they're all five stars, I don't even read them. I just delete the email and I keep moving out with my day because I'm a very broken individual. So we have this little one where we like to bring up one star reviews, read them and react to them in the way we don't normally get to because it's like we can't just spend all day commenting on reviews and fighting with people in the comments because it would be absolutely insane. Yeah, don't don't go down that wormhole. So we always like to bring bring bring ones from our businesses but also since you're a guest this week we give you a fun one from yours and give you the chance to respond. I think I think AG's got one for you lined up. I do so there I don't know something like every chef friend of mine like my friend send them to like can you believe this. So if there's one that you have that you want to read cool but I have one that I thought was pretty ridiculous. Let's do it. Okay, so this one is about the Arlo Gray in Austin, Texas, which is your restaurant there. Beautiful restaurant by the way I've met your CDC he's cool as hell. I've had his food I've had your food all amazing so I was like y'all have one star reviews. Okay, I have so many so many. Okay, yeah, go. Well, okay, so this one really, really struck me in a special way. So this one says one star. Yeah. Pretty place told to eat within an hour and a half because it was a booked night. We had reservations. Okay, I have a hard time believing they were told. I think maybe they were hitting their their reservation time because in okay for those that don't know in reservations and restaurants because we are a business and we rely on multiple people to come in. You can't just camp out at a table and we're going to do our best to put you somewhere else if you're like past your reservation time. I have a feeling it was a two top because it's an hour and a half. And maybe it was just a little reminder of like hey maybe they're hitting like two hours or two and a half hours being like listen, come and eat that table. It was a busy night. What's wrong with people. That's that's what blows my mind like nothing about the food, nothing about the service, nothing about the tangible actual restaurant. Like I don't care about if I'm reading a review on a restaurant when I'm visiting a city like this is the stuff that I don't care about. Tell me how the food was. Yeah, so like you're pissed off and every restaurant has a 90 minute that's just par for the course. So put it put it in any other context. Imagine in this, you go to a movie, right? And you go, you see the movie. It's an hour and a half runtime. At the end of the movie, they ask you to leave because there's another movie starting. The ones that get me the ones that I really that I just I want to reply back to but I can't like we have to be the bigger person rise above. Are the ones like those ones are so ridiculous that I'm like I don't want to fight with stupid. You know what I mean? Like I'm going to let you go. Right. So the ones that give critique on food, but then describe the food wrong. All that. I read one recent all that lamb. It wasn't good at all. I said we have never had lamb on my menu because I hate lamb. I love that. Never. There is no lamb on the menu and how you describe the dish that is not that's not exactly what you had. So now I can't trust anything that you've ever said. That is the same. Not my food. All right. I feel like I feel like we can roll on this all day. And I would actually love to talk to you about this all day. We'll take that off the line. I love a fired up Christmas. This is going to be going. But we got to keep it rolling. So we're going to get into our next thing, which is kind of like our mind check segment where we just talk about kind of what's going on in the industry right now newer things that are coming up. So this is something that is near and dear to my heart as a true Chicagoan. And there's different perspectives on everything, but I thought the reopening and the pop ups they're doing at Charlie Trotters is really special. My mom used to work for Charlie Trotter back in the day. She was a food rep and this was in like the eighties, nineties in Chicago where to get anything you pretty much had to go through craft. So you had to go to get your sanny buckets to get your dish supplies all the way up to like greens. And so if a restaurant was shorted, my mom would do these things called hot runs. So my sister and I are in the car with her were like seven and eight years old and we're like standing in the back door of Charlie Trotters. Well, he's like absolutely annihilating people on the line. So she would hate to take us because back then his restaurant was in a really bad neighborhood. So she couldn't leave us in the car because my sister would like hold the baseball bat and like try to protect me if anybody was walking by. So she got to the point. She's like, okay, I'll take you guys to the back door, but you cannot step foot in this kitchen, stay right in the door frame. So we're standing there like in the doorway of Charlie Trotters. And that was like my first introduction to like a chef's restaurant. And then as I got older, I went to Charlie Trotters twice in one week, one time when La Bernardin had closed for renovations and I went home to Chicago to spend like a month at home. And I had a coworker at La Bernardin who had come from Trotters. So I went twice in one week and had a completely different meal each time and it wound up being not long before they closed. And it was such a beautiful experience, such a special place and it just sat for so long. And so the chef that's doing the first pop up there is Grant Atkins. And when I was curious, like, because, you know, I think like you were in Chicago kind of like that Trotters hated like towards the end of it. I wondered if you ever had an experience there, one if you ever ate their stodge there or, you know, I'm sure you crossed paths with those people because especially you said you were hanging out late night at a Bajans. I know that was rolling through there, rolling through there for some late night fries at Escargot. Yeah. I never know. So I never been of course when I moved to Chicago, you have like the top of the chefs that you're like, oh my gosh, and you know they're in the city. But I don't know if I never had won the money or the confidence to put myself in the same space as a lot of those guys, which is a problem in and of itself, which, you know, we're the industry is shifting. But I never felt welcome. And a lot of it I think was probably my own insecurity. So I wish I had gotten to eat in there. I truly wish I could have. I think they built a fortress of people not feeling welcome. I don't think I mean some of that I'm sure I felt the same way. But I think that was by design to tell it used to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I tried to apply there for my internship at a culinary school and it was crickets. I'm like, my mom used to work here. I mailed letters. I faxed. I phone called. I was in New York, so I couldn't just show up. But when I did go to Chicago, I tried showing up and they're like, oh, send your resume. I'm like, I've been sending my resume for two months. Yeah. Yeah. Two solid months. And I think it's like, you know, we all can't have these jobs and these opportunities. Sure. But like, just reply. Just say, you know what, thanks, but no thanks. All that to be said, though, when I was in Chicago, I was very much more into partying than I was actually working and building a true, true big future. And so I never, I never went. I never, I don't think I've ever like met anyone that worked there while I was still there because I was also running around with just a different crew. There's a lot of places that are so iconic for so many different reasons that really, you know, laid a lot of groundwork for our industry that I have yet to go to and that I've never been to that maybe perhaps I will never go to because now I'm just, you know, going to different places. But it's what I find most interesting also about the pop ups is there are a lot of chefs who came out of Charlie Trotters who works there for a long time. I remember reading Grant Atkins book, Life on the Line. Did he work at Trotters? Or did he just stodge there? I think he just stodged there and it was like a whole thing. And that's like the weird thing. You know, he stodged there and then he went up to Trio at Evanston and that's where he met Kikonis and Trio was a legendary restaurant. And that's where Sean McClain was before he opened all his restaurants. Rick Tremont ran Trio up there before he opened Trio. My kind of bigger question for you, Chris, it is like, you know, like, you see this happen at restaurants, some time to time, but it's like an all culture, right? Where it's like the relaunch of something old. And you know, like, you know, do you feel like it's something where it's like it could still hit or like, you know what I mean, we should let these things go. Like I go back and forth. I think it's because it's Charlie's son. And he's kind of like the newer generation of what his dad was like. If there's anything, you know, chef, restaurant, industry, whatever, I think that the legacy that we carry is our family and the people that raised us and that, you know, gave us life and all the different things. And if that's how he's going to honor his dad and his dad's legacy, then it's a beautiful thing. Go on with your bad self. Like do what you want to do. I think that's what it says over the kitchen there is go on with your bad self. Yeah, that's going to be my new neck tattoo. I think that it's also a reflection of maybe what's happening in this industry. Like things are, you know, hopefully slightly more inclusive. He's doing it differently. He's inviting the grants in like, I don't know a lot of that history and the things back and forth there with with those two people. But you know, girl, watch the love Charlie documentary on Netflix. Okay. Good. And it touched it's mainly about Charlie Trotter and his culinary legacy, but it does touch on that a little bit. So it does after watching the documentary and then knowing that I was like, oh, okay. That's a shocker. You know, it's crazy that like so many of these like chefs, the Charlie Trotters of the world, like, of course, I know them and have heard of them. But I don't like, I wasn't the kid like with in culinary school with these cookbooks of Charlie Trotter, Thomas Keller, Grant Eck, it's like, I wasn't this kid that just like trying to study everything that they were doing at all. So like as much as I know, I don't really know a lot about who they are. It's really cool. He's, I mean, he was such a cool chef. And I think that's maybe like what Dylan is trying to remind people of his legacy because he, you know, you weren't hearing a lot from him once the, you know, chefs as a celebrity culture were really blowing up. Charlie was kind of stepping away from the kitchen at that point in his life. So I do feel like he had such an important legacy. He was the first American chef to be doing tasting menus and vegetarian tasting menus. And this was in like the 80s and 90s. He was the one who put the chef's garden on the map because he would drive over to Ohio and work with Farmer Lee and like get all these cool things and help him develop his farm to be able to supply what Trotter wanted. So he was just doing really cool stuff and he was also doing like the most wild boy crazy shit too. Yeah. I mean, and I just know this from chefs who I worked for who worked for him for a long time. Like if he picked up your knife and it wasn't sharp, he'd throw it in the garbage can and be like, if you take it out, you're fired. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The dude was like, you know, the stories you hear, you're like, oh, that's like the embodiments of the intrusive thoughts that you're just like, no one would actually do that. Right. He's like, yeah, oh yeah, hold my fucking cappuccino and watch. Yeah. I had this idea like when I was working at Montaigne, super, super fine dining. In the book, I talk about what a horrid experience it was. But I always had this thing in my head when I was so angry being there. I was like, I know how I'm going to quit. Like I'm we had this stunning kitchen with this big glass chef's table thing and like we had all these beautiful little pots to like, you know, and I had every, like I imagined myself doing it. I was going to take one of those pots, go stand across the kitchen, fling it across, shout at the chef's window and be like, fuck you, I'm out. You know, I didn't do that, which is a good thing. But like, doesn't mean that you didn't think about it. Right. The intrusive thought was there. Yeah. I think the like romanticized quitting fantasies are some of the most passionate fantasies that chefs have of like, you know, they're like so detailed. You know what I mean? There could be a romance novel of quitting chefs, you know, like, yeah, Yeah, vignettes, the little short story. I throw the pan across the room, it shatters and I ride out on my white stallion. This is the last time you'll ever see Kristen Kish. The next segment, Kristen, that we love to do is called fork it or forget it. This is where Joe and I kind of talk about something that we've seen either on social media or God forbid in a major publication. That's just to us wild. Like, why would you do this? But some of them turn out to be kind of interesting. So we decide and we are judge, jury, execution or we decide the fate of this trend and if we will ever try it. Okay. Okay. So my fork it or forget it and Kristen, I really want to know what your thoughts on this are too. We are the jury today is this thing I've seen raspberry espresso where people's position three. I just saw this the other day. Yeah, put three raspberries in the espresso cup like not cup like the damper. Yeah, they put it in the damper and then put the espresso put the espresso in it and they make a raspberry flavored espresso. My first question is does that fuck up in the machine? According to the people who make the machine because I weirdly went down. Not weirdly. This is me. I went down. I read like 47 comments on this post that I saw this company that posted this and everybody's like, dude, you're going to fuck up the machine. They're like, no, we're not. We make espresso machines. It's not going to fuck it up. But like, let's get out of fucking. So here's the thing outside. If it does not fuck up the machine because I'm not about, you know, doing you don't want to do that. Right. You're not about all. All I have to think is like I've had coffee flavored like raspberry or berry flavored coffee. I'm not a flavored coffee person. But at the end of the day, if you have a fresh raspberry and you're making a better flavored raspberry something, if that's your jam, let it roll. Like make yourself, make yourself happy. Personally, I'm not doing it. No, no, I was I was a board when I saw this. I could not believe it. I'm like, who would defile coffee in such a way? Like I I'm I don't know. I like my coffee black because I actually like coffee. I don't put anything in it. It's like, why adulterate it? It's OK if it's too strong, put a like scotch, put a splash of water in it or something like that. Open up the flavors. Do whatever you got to do. But like I milk cream flavored it like at that point, it's not coffee. If you wanted to taste like something else, you don't like coffee. So just drink something else, drink a raspberry Celsius. It feels like one of those things that like you see somebody do at work where they're like, oh, hey, chef, try this. I put raspberries in the espresso and you're like, oh, OK, and then you walk away and you like go to your GM and you're like, who the fuck hired them? You know, like, you know, you're like, why are they like messing with my espresso machine right now? Like, what are we doing? Like, is there literally nothing else to do today? Right. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, it just to be as like. It's anyway like when you have. So like I'm I'm a purest black coffee only. I don't I don't do all the all the things. But like in the middle of the afternoon, if I imagine having like a raspberry shortbread cookie with my black coffee, now we're playing in a flavor profile that feels like dessert. I can't do that in the morning. It's like a treat in the middle of the afternoon. So do wait. Hold on. I have we have to back up because I have I need some clarifying questions. We could stay on this topic forever. The people that are doing this. Is it like a range of all different kind of people? Or is it like specific? Like, I only seen it. I've only seen it on one thing. Yeah, like on a coffee espresso makers page. And I was like, why is this in my feed? Why are they like trying to make me angry today? I don't understand. And it's like my issue with it. It's like, I agree with you, Kristen. Yes, a raspberry cookie situation with an espresso is great. No, that's just great with the espresso is like a cigarette. I don't want you to smash a cigarette into the special grounds, rip the caffeine through it. Yeah. Huh? I just can imagine are the seeds getting seen flavor. Like seeds are getting stuck and like, yeah, not pulling right. And just like there's extra moisture going into this coffee that's already supposed to be perfectly concentrated, how you're making it. Like, oh, to each their own, I say. Yeah, if your brain is going that deep into questioning it, clearly it should not be done. So I will forget that. I am not going to be trying that at home or don't worry to my mom who has an espresso maker. I'm not going to do that. Sure. I'm not saying you should go to jail. I'm just saying don't do that to my espresso machine. Correct. So our last thing we do, it's called the walk-in confession. We're talking about just how the walk-in is like the greatest source of information truly in a restaurant. If you really want to know what's going on, you know, it's the one place you can go where it's like soundproof, where it's like, you've really got some shit to say to somebody. It's like, that's a spot, right? You know, you go that walk and you say it, you know, you can, you know, be as real as you want. There you cry and there you can yell and there you can scream and there like the walk in keeps all secrets. You know, the wall, the walk in, you know what I mean? Tells tells you what you're doing. You know what I mean? Tells tells no truths of the pains before. It's the ultimate place in my mind where if the walls can talk, you know, it would all be in a lot of trouble. But so we always hear just like, to try to share a story of like one of those behind the same things. Either it was a time of like, you know, when you're coming up where it's like things went completely sideways and you got through it somehow or you didn't get through it or things you saw like ultimate hack moments that you were just like, oh man, I can't believe, you know, we had that day and we lived that life. Or just stories, you know, we kind of share with each other that we just kind of haven't, haven't brought to light before in this regard. Gosh, that's a hard one. I can let age go first. Yeah. Yeah, I'll hop in first. So I was first time on the hot apps line. I had been on Garmage. I had worked cold stations, dessert. I started my career in pastry. So this was my first time like on a proper hot line in a restaurant. And the second course line was responsible for putting on the stocks and the Jews and everything to reduce for the entree line and the Saucer. So I didn't know this. So I get in, I'm lifting these big stock pots with my like line mates and I could fit in these pots. They were massive. They would hold like 60 pounds of chicken legs and chicken cages for stock. So I'm lifting these pots, put this pot of foie gras fat that had to boil and kind of put the big stock pots in front of it. And I thought the Saucer was keeping an eye on the foie fat, but it was, it was, it was, it was theirs, but it was on my station. And I was looking at the big stock pots. I didn't realize the foie fat was in the smaller stock pot nestled between these two giant ones. And shortly before service started, there was just a column of black smoke coming up from the back of the burners. And it was just the most accurate, disgusting smell. I was like, everybody in the kitchen is like, what is that? I'm like, oh, shit. Oh, shit. That's that foie fat. Oh my God. And it was like, I don't know what it is. And I was like, I looked at the Saucer, I was like, didn't you pull the foie fat over to your side through like the, you know, through the brigade? There was like an opening to get to the saw station. I thought they were pulling it over to their side so they could ladle off the fat for the sauces they needed. I was just like, fuck my life. I should, I should just get my apron and just like leave right now because I'm getting fired. It's beginning to service too. You know, we're like, everyone's just going to hate you all night. Yep. Like every time you walk to the light, like, oh, you got an extra towel. It's like, no. The Canopay guy was like getting his first few tables set up and I'm like, oh, God, now we all have no, I have to, I have to step off the line and ice down this problem. Oh my God. I was mortified. I definitely got called into the office and got ridden up for that. Because it was on my station. He was like, yeah, it was the Sausage's Flaw Fett. Yes, they were supposed to have pulled it over, but it was on your station. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I have not talked about that in years. That's office just getting. Yes, chef. Yeah. No, I understand. No, thank you. Thank you for not firing me. I'm going to do better tomorrow. I won't be sorry. I'll be better. I'll be better. Thank you, chef. I'm going to go clean the walk. I cleaned the walk in for like a week after that. Oh my God. I'll give you one and I don't think I've ever told this story. I did. I never even told the chef I worked for. I got away with this one. We're like, it was opening night. We were up in a restaurant or it was like, it was like day water to a service and we were doing these pork blade shoulder steaks. Like if you ever seen those where you take pork bone and shoulder, you slice it sideways and we would smoke them before service at like this crazy Chinese water smoker thing. So I had to smoke like 20 of them. I'm like running around. I'm super of the weeds. I throw them in the smoker. I don't set a timer and they're only this thick. So you're only supposed to smoke them for like 10 minutes. I forget. I go running back. I open the smoker. They are fucked. I mean, they are beyond well done. They are on the road to jerky. I'd left up there for like an hour and I'm just standing there and I'm just staring at a smoker, filled with these and I'm just like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. And I'm like panicking and like just standing there and I'm like, I can't tell chef. Like he is going to flip out. Like this is like my second sous chef job. I'm like, he's going to send me. This is going to be it. I'm going to get fired. Like we're like a weekend. Like I'm like, I can't do this. So I just wait till nobody's looking. I go in there. I rip all of them out. I throw them straight in the garbage. I take the garbage bag and run them out to the dumpster. We were on like this place was right off the lake street. And this is when there were still the butchers there. I sprinted out the back door through the bag of the dumpster, ran down the street to a butcher, bought 20 more pork shoulder steaks with my own money, ran them all the way back through them on a quick cure through them in the smoker. And it was like two minutes before service. And he's like, where are those pork steaks? I thought you were smoking them earlier. I'm like, oh, they're just about to come out now. I didn't get a bit on time. I'm so sorry. And you know, I pulled them out right before service. He's like, oh, these kind of look weird. I was like, yeah, I don't know. They sent weird ones. I'm going to talk to them about it tomorrow. I'm going to make sure they send us the right ones. She's like, you got to stay on them. And I was like, no, yes, chef, I'm going to stay on them. I'm not going to let them get away with this. And it was just like one of those I'm just pouring sweat. Just like, we're good guys. Like it was unbelievable. I never told another person at the restaurant. No one knew it happened. It was just like one of those things where I was just like my eyes was to be like, this big the whole time. I'm just like, I'm so good. Why would you hear? What'd you hear? I commend you, Joe Flam. Like that is a commitment to making sure you don't get in trouble. Like I think we've all had that moment of like just fucking fix it right now before anyone knows. I did come up with two. One is I was, I was young. I was young and you know what, like, and no one was asking me to do it as like a hazing thing or a, you know, a, you know, a, you know, a, you know, a, you know, a hazing thing or to test me or whatever to make me look dumb. I just thought I was doing something smart and I did mop the, I mopped the freezer. Oh, so that was, that was cool. Um, he's like, well, I guess now we have an ice skating rink. That's awesome. Um, it's fucking stupid. Like the initiative, like I'm going to clean this freezer. Yeah. Little crystals down there. Let me. I gotta make sure this water is hot. Yes. Yep. And I, yeah, I made a nice skating rink. Um, the second one was very, when I was at Monton already, imagine already feeling disliked and not welcome and you're the boss. So like people that are already gaslighting you and making you feel so like so dumb and make you feel so like unworthy of being in their presence as the boss set that feeling. And then I'm in charge of making family meal and we have this downstairs prep kitchen and I was making fried chicken thighs. And so I was like doing my dredge and I was doing the thing and I was getting ready for family meal and I load the fryer and either it had already too much oil in it or my shit just had way too much moisture. Everyone's prepping and three restaurants use shared this space. So it was Sportello, drink and Monton. We're all sharing the space and I'm putting my chicken in the fryer and I start to see it and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And it just, it just fucking went. It went and it just oil everywhere and I spent the rest basically of all the way half into service cleaning it up because I did not want to ask for help. And I was so embarrassed. Like it wasn't even like, oopsie, I made a mistake. I was the boss. They already hated me. They already thought I sucked and then I did that. And I was like, And like that feeling of like, you know, where you're like, everyone is rooting for you to fail. Right. Correct. They are like, you know, you have the biggest target on your back. I always tell do sous chefs that I'm like, you have the big, I'm like, these people, they might gas you up. They might say this, but I'm like, they will eat your lunch if you leave it unattended. Yes. Like they don't care. They want that spot. Yeah. They want it to fail. Yeah. The feeling and it's like, like you describing like we've all unfortunately have that feeling of fryer boiling over. Like I could feel that in my stomach. Oh, awesome. Of like, it's like it makes your toes curl the worst way of like, you know, oh no, this is like. How many boxes of salt did you have to pour on the oil? We used every single thing in dry storage. It was horrific. And I know that feeling of like not wanting to ask for help because you're like, no, I got it. I made the next like I can handle it. Yeah. Yeah. I just explained that I ran under the L tracks three blocks to get pork six because I didn't want to tell everyone that and spend your own money like, like, I was not making very much money at the time. Yeah. I mean, it was like, well, okay, I'm almost going to overdraft my account for this, but I'd rather do that and get absolutely right viscerated in front of the whole staff right now to start the day. Yep. We are chefs are the most resilient motherfuckers that have ever been on this planet. Like we will like, what do they say? Like you bite your own, I don't know. You bite your own something, spite your face. I don't know something. Oh, you'll cut off your nose to spite your face. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've done that. That's so real. That's how I was with the foie fat. Like it was, everybody knew it was my first time on a hotline. I was the only female in the kitchen. Actually, there was another female on the Pantree line in the AM named Stacia. She was from Boston. Super cool. But they were like, you know, you're not tough enough. You're not going to cut it. You're going to fail. You're going to run out of here crying during certain like the sous chefs when I first started took bets on how long I would last. I hate people sometimes. I was at the restaurant for like eight years, but they were taking bets. And so I was like, when that foie fat went up, I was just like, oh, this just validates everything they freaking thought about me. Yeah. Yeah. I worked one job where the chef told me in the interview, he was like, listen, I don't like you. I don't like people who went to your culinary school. I don't like, you know, like basically told me everything you didn't like about me. He's like, but I know your brother in law. He's like, so it'll give you six weeks. He goes, you probably won't make six weeks. And I was like, oh my gosh, can't wait to start chef. Yeah. You know, and now because of all those things that happened to us, I think we are more compassionate leaders. I think that we give people the grace and we push them, hold them accountable and have boundaries, but we do not discourage. I think because, yeah, we know what that feels like. We can do better. Yeah. 100%. I was in a conversation with Astage the other day and she was in it. I was like, hey, like, I'm like, I told her, I was like, my expectation isn't that you're going to run a station today. My expectation is that you're going to ask questions and like be a good teammate. That's it. You're here for the day. This is your day. This is your time. Like I want you to see it, see if this is somewhere you want to be. And if you like it here, I got my expectation isn't that you should be able to come in and run a station. That's not what you're here for. You're here to come in and learn. And like, because I could just tell she, she just seemed like really like tight and nervous and like, but it was like, she had like a really good attitude and it was like, you know, I felt like it would be a good fit. But like, it's one of those things where it's like, you know, when we came in the lines, they'd be like, oh, you're working that station today. Like you're new. You're like, yeah, oh, you're fucked. Yeah. You're going down. You're going down. We're going to watch. We're going to laugh at you. Don't ask for help. We won't give it. Yeah, you're on your own. But I think that's a great point that it's, it's shaped who we are as, as people. And I think we're all better from it. And I think that we lead better because of it in the, in the times that we have the opportunity to like shape people. And Kristen, I know you have to hop off. So I'm getting angry text messages. So you got to go. I got to thank you. Thanks so much for your time, Chris. You are the best. I love you guys. I truly genuinely love that the two of you are doing this and I feel so happy to have been on it. Like truly you guys are fucking phenomenal people. I love it. Happy for you guys. No, thank you so much for doing it. Joe started reading your book already. I'm, I'm picking up a copy and I'm starting a copy. Don't you worry. Oh, I already got one. Send me one, but I'll send you another one. If you, if you sign hers after you didn't sign mine, I will be wildly. Okay. So that is it for this episode of the chef's cut. Kristen, thank you so, so much for joining us. We absolutely love you and hanging out and talking with you has been a true blast. Joe, can you remind people where they can find you on social media and restaurants? You can find me always on social media at instaflam and in real life at Il Carccio Faux, Rosemary and Boulevard Steakhouse. Thanks again to Kristen Kish, awesome guests, awesome person, great stories and age. If they got questions for you before next week, where can they find you online? Oh, so that is Instagram, chef Adrian Sheetam. And if there's anything in the show that you guys have questions about or want to talk about, please drop a comment, drop a question. We'll be answering anything that you might not have understood some of the chef lingo or industry talk. If there's anything we'd love to engage with you guys and answer the questions that you have. Tell your friends about the podcast. Word of mouth helps us out. Tom, come listen to me, Adrian and the friends we have on having a great time. I'm here from us, from Kristen. This has been the Chef's Cut.