More Secrets To Making Your Doggy Happy

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On Big Lives we take a single cultural icon, people like Jane Fonda, George Michael, little Richard, and we pull apart the story behind the image. And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archives, discovering forgotten interviews that change exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I'm Emmanuel Jochi. I'm Kai Wright. And this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Raj Punjabi-Johnson, head of identity content at HuffPost. And I'm Noah Michelson, head of HuffPost Personal. Welcome to Am I Doing It Wrong, the show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right. So if you are a fan of the show, you probably remember last season we did an entire episode on how to make your dog happier. And that is one of our most popular episodes. People loved it. Actually, some people were annoyed because in that episode we said not all dogs like to be pet. And I don't know if you remember Raj, the internet was burned down when we said that. Guys, don't hate the player, hate the game. This is just reality. It's just the way it is. But because it was so popular, we thought we should do another one. Absolutely. And we decided to get amazing questions from our loyal listeners. And we did that. We have a fantastic wealth of knowledge to share with you from Dr. Emily Levine, an animal behaviorist with a background in veterinary medicine who was here last time she was amazing and she's back. Release the hounds. Let's do it. Dr. Emily, thank you so much for being here again. We're so excited to have you back. I'm excited to be back. Thank you. All right, we have some amazing questions from listeners. And we're so happy to help everyone make sure that their dogs are happier and healthier. So let's start out with Lisa's question. She asks, and this is so funny and cute. How do I get my golden retrievers to stop barking at the neighbor's dog over the fence? I think a lot of pet parents deal with barking. How do we address it? That is a great question, a very common question. And what I find most interesting about it is that is as humans, that is our default sort of go to place. How do I stop this? Because it's annoying or has practical issues, all that kind of stuff. So I'm going to go off on a little bit of a tangent here and just sort of give an analogy that will make my answer to that question seem more sensible. So if a dog vomits and we said, how do I stop this behavior? We could say put some duct tape over your dog's mouth. That'll stop the vomiting. But hopefully most people would be like, ooh, that doesn't sound good. That sounds like it could have a lot of risks because we haven't actually identified why the dog is vomiting. The very first question we should ask with any physical symptom or behavioral symptom is why is the dog doing it? So most people can wrap their head around, well, if a dog vomits, the dog can probably vomit for some very innocuous reasons that are no big deal with a pretty simple plan and good prognosis. Whereas other reasons may have not as great of a prognosis and have a much more complicated treatment approach. So when someone says my dog is barking, how can I stop it? My mind just goes to, well, why is he or she barking in the first place? So this is where really trying to understand a dog's underlying emotional state and motivation is key to being able to identify what is the most appropriate intervention and how successful are we going to be at resolving this problem? And this is where having a really qualified behavior trainer is critical because there are some situations where let's say the dog is just barking because they're happy to see the other dogs across the fence. Like, let's play, let's do something and they're just happy and bounding. Then for a lot of those dogs, making sure that that dog is getting their social needs met is an important part of this. So maybe they can schedule some play dates with that dog, make sure they're getting those needs met, but also work on some basic recall training so that they can call the dog away from the fence when he's barking and also giving the dog fun things to do in the yard. So that he has something he or she has something else to do. So that is, and with training this, you have to sort of go through like distraction level training. So, so all these things would say, okay, well, that has a pretty good prognosis. And that would seem like very reasonable steps to take. Whereas if a dog is barking at the neighbor's dog because he has, he or she has very negative feelings. I don't like this dog, whatever the case may be. That's when we have to talk about realistic expectations and what kind of treatments we may do. So for instance, in that scenario, management changes are going to play an important role. So for instance, we might have to say, you know what, if possible, put up shrubs or something like that to prevent your dog from practicing this unwanted behavior, because every time they practice it, it's like strengthening a muscle. It gets stronger and stronger and stronger. In addition to that, we might need to work on more desensitization and counter conditioning techniques so that when the dog is out there, they can learn to not pay so much attention to the other dog and do other things and or give them other things to do. And some dogs may need, if they have certain temperamental traits that make them very anxious or very reactive in general, they may need medicines to help with that process. And then realistic expectations have to be given to the owner that if you do these exercises with your dog in the yard, keep in mind what he or she is learning is that when mom is here, I know I'm going to get called over. I'm going to be able to play ball or get rewarded for downstairs or doing whatever. And if the dog does well, it doesn't mean that he or she's going to do well when mom's in the house, they just open the door and let the dog out. So this is where having someone who's very knowledgeable about behavior overall, in addition to different training approaches, is really essential to get the dog to stop the barking. Because it can be a pretty benign thing that's pretty easily resolved all the way to, OK, guys, we're going to have to use management. He's not going to improve in this situation. And here's the work that's going to be involved to get him better in the yard, just so people can make an informed decision about what they want to do. Some people end up saying, well, you know, for the dog who's really reactive, well, that's a lot of work. I think I'll do the bushes and just keep them in the house when my neighbor dog is out. So perhaps a long winded answer to the question. But one of the reasons that with any sort of behavior, there's not always going to be, oh, for dogs who do this, do X. Yeah. You know what I love about this? Benji and I, with our dog, Jumi, we have a dog trainer, Kathy, and she's amazing. And so much of what she does, it's almost like she's Sherlock Holmes. And so we say he's doing this behavior and she does the same thing you just did. She's trying to reverse engineers back to, well, why is this happening? And can we address the fundamental thing that's happening? And then we can fix that because we know why he's doing it. And that makes so much sense to me. It's therapy, essentially. It's literally therapy for him and for us. Yeah. I feel like a lot of what you're probably going to tell us today is similar to that. We have to figure out the underlying issue and address that and not the symptom of the issue, maybe. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Also, because I am a co-host of this show and I have a dog, a lot of these questions are mine because I'm just selfish. So here's a question that Benji and I always have. When we take Jumi out to go to the bathroom, he has to find the perfect spot to pee and to poop, especially poop. He does this thing we call the poop dance. Oh, God, that's so cute. It's really cute, but it also kind of drives us crazy where he will sniff the ground and go back and forth over a stretch of like six or eight feet and have to find the perfect spot before he'll go and it can take forever sometimes. Why do dogs do that? Or why does Jumi do that? What is happening when he's doing the poop dance? What are they looking for and what signals to them it's time to go? And lastly, is there a way you can get them to go quicker? Are you just sort of stuck waiting for them to find the perfect spot? So that's an interesting question. And you know, this is very serious dog business finding the perfect spot. This is serious. And I would say, do we know exactly what they're looking for? No, I can't say that we know scientifically what they're looking for. But the dog sense of smell is very, very important and they get a lot of information from what they're smelling that we will never, well, maybe one day, but currently we just can't even imagine all the information that they're getting and how they're interpreting that information. So my suspicion is, is sometimes they may be just looking for a spot to quote, eliminate, you know, do toileting behaviors, pee and poop to get rid of that stuff. And maybe they want an area that is not as soiled as other areas, whereas other times they may be looking to mark. Right. In which case they're going to want to find an area that is more heavily dense, maybe with other dogs, sense, etc. So this is something that may seem a little silly to us, but I'm envisioning like what if there were aliens looking at us in a public restaurant? Totally. Yes. And we close the door like why, you know, they don't know that, oh, this toilet is full. I don't want to use that one. Yeah. So each species has their own sort of sensory stimuli that are going to sort of motivate their behavior. And I would say, you know, let the dog just sniff around. I don't know that I, you know, from the dog's perspective, no reason to hurry up. I would say if from a human perspective, if there are times where, hey, we need to sort of speed this up because I've got to get to work. Some dogs you can put on like a queue, like a hurry up queue. They really take a long time. So that when they hear that they know they have to go. We found like a strip of block away from our apartment that he loves to go on. So that it's, if we have to get to work or it's cold out and we want him to go quickly, we take him to his strip and usually he'll go pretty quick. That's really funny. I was just thinking the same thing, Dr. Emily, like I also need to, when I'm in a public restroom, I need to choose where I'm going to go. Like I will hold everything in until I find a place that I feel is perfect for me. So do you mean I have that in common? Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Hello, it's Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast and James A. Caster here also coincidentally from the Off Menu podcast. And the Off Menu podcast is currently being brought to you by Marriott Bonvoy, a world of over 30 inspiring hotel brands. Marriott Bonvoy tends great food into lasting memories, bringing you closer to the flavours, shared tables and moments that linger long after the last bite. Whatever your passion, explore over 30 hotel brands and thousands of experiences to bring it to life. Explore Marriott Bonvoy's world of inspiring hotel brands. At GrapeTree, you'll find fantastic deals like our best-selling Supreme Almonds, now for just £8.99 a kilogram or £3.25, or £3.02 on our fantastic range of exotic herbs and spices. Plus, use code SPRING20 for a massive 20% off of £40 or more spend on selected products when you order online, or shop at one of over 180 of our stores nationwide. If you're looking for big bags and big value, GrapeTree is the place to go. GrapeTree, your health, our products. Hi, it's Guy and Gary here and our podcast Rock on Tours is currently being sponsored by SpecsAvers. Make sure you look after your ears and your hearing and treat yourself to a hearing check. What's that got to do with SpecsAvers? Did you know that they're hearing experts too, Gary? Maybe they should call themselves Specs and Hearing Savers. Yeah, not very snappy, is it? But they've been hearing experts for over 20 years too, helping new and existing customers when they need it. SpecsAvers, looking after your hearing too. It's so easy to book. Go online or in store today. Welcome back to Am I Doing It Wrong? John asks, I have to leave my dog home alone several times a week. What's the best way to ensure he isn't upset when I'm gone? I worry he's just so bored. I mean, this is such a legitimate thing I think a lot of people deal with. Even with my cat, I'm just like, are you entertained? But obviously dogs are very different, you know? Yeah, so the absolute best thing that dog owners should do, maybe cat owners too, is to videotape their dog when they are left alone. So we can see what they're doing. Because there are some dogs who happily nap, and they're on their back, and they're just snoozing, and they're clearly relaxed. They're not anxious, they're not bored, they're totally chilling, having the place to themselves. There are other dogs where they may like be, their body language is totally calm and relaxed, but they're looking around for stuff. They may be looking in the garbage, get up and pace, not in an anxious way, but a way that would indicate, they need something to do, in which case there are lots of foraging toys, or things that they can be given to work on when they're left alone, so they're not as bored. And or if time permits, those owners can, before leaving, maybe can do like a mental stimulation game with them, and some training, so that they're a little bit more worn out, and less likely to get bored when left alone. And then the video would also tell us if it's not boredom, and they're not relaxed, but if they actually seem anxious or frustrated when left alone. And then that is a welfare, of course, a welfare concern that should be addressed completely differently often, than if they're just bored, or obviously if they're just having a blast on their own, no intervention needed. I'm kind of glad that I've chosen to do animal children and not human children, because this is going to get expensive. I am so ready to spend all of my money on cameras, and really fancy toys, and food. Like, let's do this. I mean, Jumi is so expensive. Dr. Emily Berry's asked, what's the best way to discourage a bad behavior that has already happened? Our dog, Bucky, peas or poops on the rug, what do we do when we find it later to emphasize that it's wrong and for him not to do it again? Is it not connected in his mind when there's a time gap? So I think this is, you know, people don't catch something, and they want to make sure the dog knows that it was bad, but it's time is already passed. It's too late, yeah. Yeah, what do you do in that situation? Yeah, so for dogs who house soil or cats, they will not make an association between soiling in the home and punishment if there's a time delay. They just won't. What will happen is they may connect the dots that, uh-oh, when there's poop or pee in the home and my owner comes home, I know I'm going to get in trouble, so they start to get anxious, and we see a lot of pets developing, like, conflicting behaviors. Like, they may start to spin when their owner comes home or something because they know they're about to get in trouble, but maybe they don't know why, because they're not connecting the punishment to the act. So there should definitely be no punishment. If there's time delay, there shouldn't even be punishment if there's no time delay. We want to handle this differently. If they feel the need to urinate or defecate, the actual act of doing that is in and of itself rewarding. You feel better, and it's a very natural thing. And so we go back to the question of, why is the dog doing this? For the average dog, they just haven't learned yet. What our vision is of an appropriate toilet for them. Maybe the dog goes outside and poops and pees, but hey, this living room that's not used very much is also a lovely place to go. So sometimes we just have to implement training practices where the dog can learn what we want them to learn, and any time you want to teach a child something or teach a dog something, the last thing we want to do is punish it, which is why I say punishment shouldn't even be a factor. As they're sitting there trying to poop, you don't want to be like, you know, because it's just a natural function. So when you hear about like people trying to potty train their child, there's a reason they get M&Ms after they do the right behavior. So in a situation like this, if you have a dog who you've had for a while but still hasn't gotten the hang of it, what we want to do is we want to provide constant supervision so that they don't have an opportunity to quote, make a mistake from our perspective. Because every time they quote, make that mistake again, it's just reinforced behavior. Yes, this felt good. I can go here. So for some people, that might mean they have to keep the dog on a leash attached to their belt or their waist so the dog can't sneak off and go. And the other thing, or baby gate the dog in the same room, the other thing that that allows to happen is some dogs are giving very, very clear signals they have to go out. They're at the door barking. That's easy, right? But there are plenty of dogs who give much more subtle indicators that they have to go. They might just start looking at the ground in a certain way. They might start sniffing a little bit. Behavior that are so easy to miss when you're in your house, on a computer or cooking or whatever you're doing. And so by keeping the dog sort of tethered to you, not only does that minimize their ability to go off and eliminate, but it also gives the owner the opportunity to observe some of these more subtle signs that is their dog saying, hey, I need to go now. And of course, the normal stuff of taking a dog out first one waking up before bed, 15 minutes after eating, but also after playing, because that can stimulate the GI tract to have to go. So we want to make sure we're giving the dog plenty of opportunities to go out. And when they do eliminate outside, they should get a reward outside, not when the people come back in. I've had some of the cutest cases where the, but the dog has learned is I'm going to ask to go outside, but then I'm going to hop right back inside because they've learned that the asking to go out and coming back in in their mind is what gives them the reward. Okay. So for a typical house-soiling case, this is what we want to do. We don't want to punish, but I understand it's so frustrating. You come home, there's poop, there's pee. Why aren't they getting this yet? You're frustrated. Take it out on something else, but don't take it out on the dog because it will likely just make things worse and is certainly not going to help. Okay. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. My name is Dr. Rachel Craven. I'm an anesthetist and trustee of MedSans or Frontier. During my time with MSF, I've worked alongside other doctors, nurses and surgeons to deliver medical care wherever it is needed most. If we see a problem, we don't stand by, we act. My MSF career began in the wake of the Indonesian tsunami where I helped deliver emergency surgery in generator-powered, makeshift operating theatres. Since then, I've trained staff during the conflict in Yemen and helped teams build hospitals in Syria and Libya. Each emergency is different, but we're always committed to delivering care to those who need it. That is our legacy, but it is not ours alone. I've seen people at their best coming together to provide life-saving care, but it's your help we need to continue this work. One in six of our life-saving projects are funded by people leaving gifts in their wills. Search MSF will to find out how you can be a part of this legacy. We can't do what we do without you. Thank you. I can't believe it! Max has asked me to move in with him! I mean, you practically live with each other already, but that's great! Did you hear that, Joe? Yes, thanks for letting us know. I see you've updated your universal credit claim. Now you're going to be living together. If you're telling other people about a change in your circumstances, tell us too to avoid a penalty. Search Tell DWP. Hi, it's Kay and Karen here from How2B60, and this message is brought to you by SpecsAvers. OK, Karen, what is the first thing that springs to mind when I say SpecsAvers? Specs? Well, you're not wrong, but did you know that since 2002, they have also been hearing experts, which as you know, as a proud hearing device user, is a subject close to my heart? Ooh, maybe they should call themselves Specs and Hearing Savers. Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, does it? All anyone needs to know is that SpecsAvers are also hearing experts. So book a free hearing check today. Welcome back to Am I Doing It Wrong? I have a question about behavioral change. Sunjena asks, I'm interested in learning about dogs who are absolutely sweetie plums, but become more aggressive or reactive or suspicious over time. She says, when I got Herman in February, he was going to every single human and offering his belly, but for the past couple of months, he's been barking and jumping on people. Yeah, so there are lots of different things that could be. This is a very common scenario that we see with dogs starting out to be sort of these like, I'm okay with everything and then suddenly not being okay with things. Well, first we want to make sure there's nothing medical. So for a lot of dogs, if there's any sort of subtle dis, and I will say subtle discomfort, that can make them a little bit more irritable, less outgoing, less happy, more moody. And the reason I say subtle is because I know in my practice, we find a lot of dogs, young dogs. It's not people think like arthritis and hit problems is an old dog problem. It's not. It is in one year old. So we, and even for dogs that we find discomfort as a source of a behavior issue, they're running, they're playing, they're not exhibiting any sort of behavior. They're not playing. They're not exhibiting pain in a way that it's dysfunctional. Like I'm not using my leg. Like it hasn't gotten to that degree. They're just uncomfortable such that they're probably compensating with their gate and how they walk. And sometimes the way this comes out is behaviorally. So we really first and foremost want to make sure there's no medical issue causing the change. That's number one. In terms of how dogs develop, when dogs are going through social maturity, which with our current state of knowledge, we believe is between the years of one and four years of age, with the smaller breeds, it being closer to one and two, the larger breeds three and four. What happens as dogs go through this maturing process is how they perceive the world changes. So while they were young, everything's good. Everything's great. As they're becoming who they are as an adult, they're becoming much more selective or perceiving things differently. So what rings true to most people that makes them go, oh, I get it even more now is when we think of human children, little kids, you know, three or whatever, they'll play with anyone. Everyone's a friend, you know. And then as they get into their preteen teen years, it's like they become a lot more selective of who they're going to hang out with, what they like to do, what they don't like to do. So dogs can go through this same process and some dogs will have temperamental traits that make them much more vulnerable to not only being more selective, but like actively being barking, growling or retreating. So if a dog has a temperamental trait of fearfulness, that can really make this social development period much more intense. Or if they have the temperamental trait of having impulsivity issues, it can make things much more intense. I would say a third reason is of course, if there was a traumatic event, somebody mistreated the dog, a shot collar was used on a dog, we will see those things also can make dogs move in the wrong direction, so to speak. This makes so much sense. It does. And this reminds me of the first time you came on the show and you were just talking about how dogs' brains function like human brains in a lot of ways. And that's why antidepressants can work for dogs because they work just like they do for humans. And I think we have to think about our dogs as actually having thoughts, having feelings. Absolutely. I mean, I've always wondered this and this is kind of abstract. Do dogs remember trauma? How much of it do they hold on to? Yep. So dogs have the same neuroanatomy that we do to hang on to emotionally significant events. And that makes sense evolutionarily. Because in order to survive, you have to be able to avoid things that may harm you and decrease your ability to reproduce. So I would say many species have the ability to remember negative things. Wow. So interesting. Speaking of reproducing, I love this question. This is from a friend of mine who wanted to be anonymous. She said, we recently adopted a new dog and he loves to lick our older dog's penis. She said, what's going on there? And is there any downside to this or should I just let them go at it? Yeah, no, that's an interesting question. So I would say there are different reasons a dog may lick another dog's penis. So, you know, it may be that there are just so many good odors in there that they're attracted to that. It may have a taste that they particularly like. We want to make sure the dog doesn't have like some sort of yeast infection or something in there that's making it more attractive to the other dog. Right. So for the dog who's engaging in that behavior, they're likely smelling something or tasting something that they particularly find reinforcing. And the dog whose penis is being licked may, if he's allowing this, he probably just thinks it feels good. Yeah. It does feel good. So, I mean, if it's happening here and there, let it be. I don't see an issue with it. The concern about it going on for too long or too frequently is again, it's possibly setting up for an infection in the penis that's being licked potentially. It's so funny, though, because like, I think as humans, we think of a behavior thing when we think about sex. And I love that you're like, well, it could just be practical. It might just taste good. It might just smell good. And maybe that's why they're doing it, which I just think is so crazy. It's such a different thing. Yeah. I have a related question before we leave the bedroom. Is it bad for dogs to be in the bedroom when humans are having sex? I mean, when Benji and I have sex, we don't let Jimmy on the bed. Okay. But he's in the bedroom. And I feel a little bit weird about it. And Jimmy seems a little bit on edge, I would say. And I feel like he doesn't exactly know what we're doing. Yeah. And so what do you think from a behavior standpoint? Is that a should people take the dog out of the room when they're being intimate or does it not matter? This has been the conversation, by the way, of many dinner tables I've sat at. Yeah, completely. Yeah. It's a question that I get actually often, but I would say for most dogs, it just doesn't matter. If they're not bothered by it, it doesn't matter at all. Dogs don't have this hang up like people do about things, right? They sort of live in moments and that type of stuff. Where we shouldn't have the dog in a room when people are having sex is when the dog tries to intervene. Yeah. So there are lots of dogs who have a little bit of FOMO, just like when people are hugging, the dog wants to join in. Yeah. And so the dog is just like in a happy way, hey, what's going on here? And that just ruins the mood, typically. So sometimes just for very practical reasons, yeah, put the dog out in the hallway, give him a Kong, whatever, or give him a Kong in the room. That's just more of a nuisance thing for the people. Yeah. There are also dogs who will get very distressed because of the sounds that are being made. And they may interpret some of those sounds as aggression. Yeah. And then it's not fair to the dog to have them in the room for that. Right. So that's what I would also not have them in the room. That makes sense. Okay. I just have to say that my cat Gina politely leaves the room. She excuses herself. I'm sorry to God, it's really funny. She's like, ah, something's happening. She leaves. She's like, hey, she's a lady. And then she comes back. I love that. She doesn't want to be disturbed. New cats are so different. She's like, uh, they're making noise. I love that. It's hilarious. Okay. We have one from Tasha. Why is my dog basically a cat? She hates go, speaking of Gina, she hates going outside. She doesn't like water. She has zero interest in dog like activities. Is she just a doxin or was she born into the wrong species? That's so funny. She also says it does seem like most dogs have dog like qualities, but some definitely don't. I sometimes call Noah's baby, Jumi a cat. Because, yeah, because, you know, but I feel like, yeah, tell us what that means. Yeah, it's so just a personality. Yeah. We look for our dogs who I'd rather sit on the back of the sofa and just hang out and sit in room and not engage in many stereotypical dog behaviors. And that's totally normal. And it's totally fine. It's just a different personality. You know, we can't say all dogs do this or all golden retrievers do this because it's a little bit like saying all women. Yeah. Like there are individual differences and that's normal and healthy and wonderful. Yeah. Lindsay wants to know what's the best and healthiest way to introduce your dog to a new baby? She was saying, should I let them sniff something like a hat from the hospital first? Or is that a myth? And how do you make your dog feel loved during a chaotic time like a newborn phase? I'm very interested in this question too because I feel like I watch a thousand tick talks of dogs being very sweet and gentle just naturally with babies. But I'm sure there's like a transition period. Right. Yeah. This is so, let's just say we have your typical happy go lucky dog, you know, and we're having a baby and we want to set everyone up for success. I would absolutely encourage first and foremost, even before the baby is born, if you know you're going to have some routine changes, like you're not going to want the dog in the nursery. I mean, everyone wants to do things differently. Then go ahead and start making those rules in place before the baby comes. So it's not like all these changes at once. So that's number one. When the baby is born, I absolutely recommend people bringing something home from the hospital like a baby hat, dirty diaper for the dog to smell just to make sure we don't see any concerning reactions. That's what we're really looking for. And then when they bring the baby home, some practical things to keep in mind is, you know, if mom has been away for a few days in the hospital, the dog might be really excited to see her and jump up on her. So what we may have dad hold the baby out in the hallway or on the front step while mom goes in says hello to the dog, gets that reading sort of out of the way. And then mom can take the baby back. And I think one of the things I most strongly want to state is that there is no rush to have the dog and the baby sniff each other right away. Got it. If mom or dad are not comfortable with it, do not feel the pressure like it's this aha, you know, moment. It might take a week or three weeks before some people feel comfortable having this delicate little being near a dog's face, you know, to sniff. So people should just take their time with it. When that happens, whether it's the first day or three weeks later, what I typically recommend out of an abundance of caution is that the individual with more maternal instincts is the one holding the baby. And they allow the dog to sniff the baby's rear end area where there's a diaper and clothing and a blanket. So it's a little more padded again, just in case, you know, something happens, there's a little bit more padding. So that's typically how I recommend introductions. And that's for just your normal average dogs. If a dog clearly has a lot of anxiety or has shown aggression to children in the past, that's a much more serious process for which people really need to seek qualified help or ideally a veterinary behavior is. And you had a follow up about just like dogs and kids in general. Yeah. And I mean, Jumi is the sweetest puppy in the world and he has been around Benji's nephews a lot and one of them is four and one of them is a year. And he's always been so sweet with them. But I still get a little nervous about having a big dog, Jimmy, 60 pounds by a child. Do you have thoughts in general about children and dogs, even the sweetest dog? Should we still be watching carefully? Yes, even with the sweetest dog for a few reasons. And I actually, I wrote a children's book called Doggy Do's and Don'ts for this very particular reason. So even the sweetest dog, we don't know if and when they're not feeling well. And that can make a dog irritable, right? So we don't want to encourage children to lay on the dog and things of that nature because it only takes once, you know. And the other thing is we really should be teaching. We're not doing this in our culture at all and we need to do it much more as we need to teach children how to be around dogs, how to interact with them in a very safe and respectful way. Because let's say people have a dog in their home who is just a mush and never reacts negatively and their kids are doing all sorts of things. If that child doesn't know how to interact the minute they're sent over to a play date, for a play date at someone else's house, they're much more inclined to do things like, you know, I'm going to go up and kiss your dog and hug your dog. Or like pull its ear. Yeah. Well, ears or, oh, there's a bone on the floor. Let me get it for you. I've just seen too many terrible situations where a child from another home who can get away with stuff with their own dog, they then do that stuff to someone else's dog and it is not a good outcome. So just like we teach children some basic safety rules with like crossing the street, look both ways. We need to teach children, not just for being respectful of dogs and dogs welfare, but for the safety of the children going out in this world. Look, you don't hug or kiss dogs. You just shouldn't do that. You want to kiss them, blow that like kiss, you know, you don't go up to a strange dog and put your hand over them. You don't, if there's food on the ground or but you don't pick it up. If they're working on a toy, leave them alone. If they're mapping, leave them alone. Just good fundamental solid safety rules because these are the scenarios that I also put in the kids book because these are the most common scenarios for young children to be bitten. There are lots of ways to promote a fun and healthy relationship between kids and dogs. There are certain games and all sorts of things you can do, which if we're asking children not to do certain things, we want to make sure we can tell them what to do, of course. But it's really essential and so many dog bites to kids could be reduced with just some of these basic cultural safety tips. Yeah, I love that. I think that's really smart. Yeah, me too. Oh, I love this one. What about if you want to introduce a cat to the household? I have to say, like, there's so much stigma about cats and dogs, but my friends that have both, it's a lot of them have these beautiful, unique relationships that it's like it took a little work sometimes, you know, with the trainer, etc. But they're like best friends. We really want to get a cat, but we are afraid that Jimmy will eat him. And so we don't know how to go about it. So I'm really interested in your thoughts on this, Dr. Emily. Yeah, so there are dogs and cats who can be best of friends. There are dogs and cats who will just tolerate each other like uninterested roommates. And then there will be cases where it is risky to have them together because the dog may aggress towards the cat, kill the cat. I've also seen situations where the cat bullies the dog. So this sort of comes down to first, we sort of want to assess like the personality of of the dog in the home. Like, does he have a history of going after cats? Does he have a history of having a lot of predatory aggression, wanting to chase things that are fast? Does he have other areas of aggression that may sort of just make us take a deep breath before doing this? Sure. Dr. Emily, let me start you right there. So, Jimmy, his dream would to be able to get a squirrel. When we go out on walks, he is so squirrel motivated. Does that mean that he would maybe have an issue with the cat or the squirrels and cats totally different and he could be just fine with the cat? That's a good question. He could be just fine with the cat. However, where I would be worried is if your cat were to like run across the room fast because for a lot of dogs, that triggers a chase response. And even if the dog is chasing for fun and they capture the cat for fun, that can still seriously harm a cat. Right. So I think as far as introducing, let's say your your dog is generally well mannered but doesn't like squirrels or chases after squirrels. But you really want to get a cat. What we need to do is make sure that that resident dog has very solid cues that they listen to, stay, wait, go to place, etc. And then when we bring in the cat, they're, you know, separated while they get used to each other's smells. We see how the dog responds to the cat because it's also I mean, some dogs are just so amazingly gentle with kittens. Like they just know and some aren't. But we can sort of see how some of these behaviors, you know, through like a gate or something and then slowly introduce them and have your dog, you know, do a nice down stay. Well, maybe you play with the kitten and the kitten's doing some erratic movements to see can your dog cope with that. Right. And maybe before getting a cat, you might want to try fostering. We get a sense so you're not committing yourself to a cat with the understanding that obviously safety is number one when fostering a kitty. You're not using them as test subjects. You're just trying to gauge safely. How's my dog around cats? I have a suspicion when we see cats when we're out walking him, like he'll see a bodega cat, you know, a cat in the wild. He it seems like the cat is the one who's in charge. Yeah. Yeah. Jumi doesn't go after it. Jumi doesn't try to attack it. He seems kind of scared of it. Yeah. And so I think it is probably different than squirrels. But I like the idea of fostering and sort of getting them together and seeing what happens before we actually commit. Cats, which the energy is my favorite thing about them. Yeah. They mean they are always the ones in control. Yeah. You know, me. Of everyone. Of everyone. They own the room always. Maybe we should end on this one. I wonder about this one. Yeah. Do you have any theories or does science have any theories about dog dreaming? Oh, I love that. Do dogs dream? I mean, Jumi seems like he is. And it's so cute when he is dreaming or what I think is dreaming, his feet move. Running. Yeah. He's like running and he's like barking a little bit. So we tell ourselves that he's chasing squirrels in his dreams. So sweet. What do we know about about doggy dreaming? Yeah. So again, I would say dogs dream. While we can't ask them this or ask them to tell us about their dreams, we know they have the same again, your own anatomy that we do for dreaming. And dogs actually do have REM eye movements, rapid eye movements. OK. That's likely happening when they're dreaming. And they actually also have REM sleep disorders. So like if they're running and they're sleep, some dogs will actually get up and run and they run into a wall because they're still sleeping. So from my perspective, it's to me, yes, dog's dream. And along those lines, they might even have some nightmares. So to me, it's not really a question if they do. I mean, it's enough evidence that I would I think we need to say yes, they dream unless proven otherwise. I love this episode. I know. I just want to turn the podcast into an animal podcast. I do. I really do. Just to cut. I love the pet. I love the pet. Lovely, lovely creatures. They enhance our lives so much, truly. Thank you so much, Dr. Emily, you are just what the doctor ordered. Oh, I love that. Yes, indeed. We're so thankful for you. My pleasure. My pleasure. It's time for Better in Five. These are your top five takeaways from this episode. Number one, whenever you're dealing with an issue with your dog, investigate the underlying cause, not just the annoying symptom. Number two, if you're worried about your dog being bored or distressed while you're out, try videotaping them to see what they're doing when you're not home. It's cute and stalkerish. Number three, Dr. Emily says that every dog has its own personality and may not behave like a stereotypical, quote unquote, dog does. And that's just fine. Number four, the best way to train a dog is to promote healthy habits and reward them. Don't punish them no matter what the situation is. And number five, if you're bringing a baby or a cat home, it's important to be very thoughtful and strategic of how to introduce them and take it slow. OK, Noah, as a dog owner, you know a lot already, but did you learn anything new from this episode? I learned so much. I love these episodes. Number one, I'm going to let Jimmy poop whenever and wherever he will. Well, not wherever. You can't poop in the house, but I'm going to stop trying to hurry him along. Sure. He needs that perfect spot. He should have it. And number two, I'm not going to feel guilty about having sex in front of him. I love what she said about like this idea of FOMO and how they might want to join in. That's never happening. But yeah, no, there's so many things I thought were really interesting and I could listen to her talk just all day long. What about you? Did you learn anything? Yeah, I mean, I think I was like spiritually healed in a way to learn how similar dogs and humans are. Yeah, I felt like psychologically, the things, the tools that we use in therapy we can use with other animals, too. It was beautiful and healing. They're not that different than us. No. And yet very different. I know. Well, significantly, just better. Better. Yeah. Amen. Anyway, until next time, as long as there are things to get wrong, we're going to be right here to help you do them better. Get at me, dog. Do you have something you think you're doing wrong? Email us at am I doing it wrong at huffpost.com and let us know. Oh, she's arrived. A school run style queen. Oh, what's she wearing today? A chic duster coat, barrel leg jeans and retro trainers. Iconic. 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