Episode #76 Featuring Shanna Pearson! A MASTERCLASS on ADHD! Impact of ADHD on life and relationships, Misdiagnosis of ADHD, ADHD vs. Anxiety, Recognizing ADHD signs and more!

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Alright everybody welcome back to the Dylan Jamelli podcast. So I have an amazing and very special guest today and she is the first expert I've had on this topic. In my show, so it's going to be a home run I can guarantee you, I do want to point out before I give her the intro that she just released a new book. It's called Invisible ADHD proven mood and life management for smart yet scattered women. However it's for all people she did make that very clear for women and men. The point here, instant. That's right, instant USA today best seller. You do not see that often and when you do it's obviously with good reason. So she is the founder and president of ADHD coaching. It's the largest ADHD coaching program of its kind in the world and what they do is provide one on one action based coaching for easily distracted adults that are seeking personal professional and financial success. She has over 26 years of experience and she has designed and led focused and goal achievement programs for executive and directors at Fortune 500 companies and world class institutions. Some of which would include Google, Tesla, PayPal, Ford Motor Company, Metta, Johnson and Johnson Apple SpaceX, the list goes on. She's helped tens of thousands of adults transform their lives through her results driven, brain focused based approach and also she has degrees in psychology and education and her credentials include a lifetime spent mastering her own ADHD and she also personally trains certifies and mentors all coaches in her proprietary action based coaching method and she oversees more than 60,000 coaching sessions each year. She's been featured on NPR Fox NBC global TV, CTV. I could keep going on, but I think we need to get into the conversations show my friends instant best selling author. Sean a Pearson. Woo. I'm out of breath. Wow. That's awesome. I feel like you're like all the credentials like stacked up in a paragraph like that and then like, oh my god, I want to meet this person. That's just. You know, I'm known for my intros, by the way, I say that. No, I just get it. But one thing that you do, you know that I notice is sometimes when you do something for so long, you don't realize all that you've actually done until somebody breaks it down and tells you, you know, and it's yeah, how does that feel? It feels like a lot. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired. When do I get to take a nap? No, it feels amazing. It's amazing. The book being an instant best seller was, was shocking. Like what? When you talk like that doesn't that doesn't make sense. They count it right. And then I got all the stats and it was like, wow, that's that is just awesome. I'm so grateful that people are finding the book. Well, you know, and now before we get into some other things, let's talk realities on books and book sales. You know, one of the things that I've learned getting into what I do is that everybody wants to have a book and a lot of people spend a lot of money to make a book. But in general, it's kind of used more for promotion or to say you have a book. It's not like to the levels of what you're doing here. And this is a testament to how good and respected you must be because this sold so fast. And most of the times, like I said, you don't see people selling a ton of their books. It's more for promotion. I've got a book. Yeah. It's like a business card. It's like a very long business card. Yes. A very expensive one is what I'm learning. And so I guess my point here is this is a real testament to you and what you do and the impact you're having for it to sell that quick, that fast. And you know, I wonder how that feels to you gratification wise. And do you feel like, wow, I'm really resonating with people and doing what I'm, you know, intend to do here, which is to change lives. So it's super, it's a fantastic question. And what you're pointing out is just like bang on. I did not intend to write a book. So most people, as far as I know, write a book and they do it for exactly what you just said. They use it as a business card like, okay, I wrote a book. I can now say I'm an author and, oh, if I get to be an Amazon best selling author in some random category, I can put best seller beside my name. And you know, you can make money if you sell a lot and all of that. And I have never thought of doing that. I never wanted to write a book. I'm not an author. I'm not a writer. Although I am now I, I swear to God, I'm part of my identity. The publisher, McMillan publishers, they came to me. And they found me and they asked me, please write this book. We wanted to be, you know, for to help women with ADHD. And the only reason, so it kind of just came at me. It was, it was not, you know, some people like write it and then they'll shop it around and get an agent and then get a publisher. But they came to me. I said yes for one reason only. And it's the reason I said yes is because our coaching program is not accessible to everyone because it can be, you know, it can be pricey and it can be, it's a commitment, right? Like it's not, it's not, we need a lot of people into programs, but people have to be like ready to, ready to roll. And so it's like signing up for like a, you know, a personal trainer. Like you're not, you're not there to, you know, lose two pounds. You're there to get in shape. It's like a commitment. You're going from here before picture to after picture. And our coaching program is like that too. And so you number one, you have to be able to commit mentally. And number two, you have to be able to afford it. And there are a lot of people that come to us who can't do it. They can't do it. And there are so much pain and their lives are falling apart and they're losing, you know, their careers are falling apart. Their family is falling apart. Their health is falling apart. And as the business owner, I can't, I honestly can't stand it. It drives me crazy. How many people need this so badly and they can't, and they're not able to afford it, usually. Or they just don't have the time because they have three kids and they're a single parent, name it, right? And so after years of this, I just, I was like, I can't do anything. I don't even think we're that expensive. But for some people, they can't afford it. And we have to pay our coaches or I won't have any coaches. And then I won't be able to like help these people. So I can't do anything about certain things. But what I was able to do is take the like so many golden nuggets from our coaching program that have been helping, you know, oh my gosh, like 10 to 1000 of people over decades and put it in a book and then give it all away. You know, like some people, they'll put like one big thing in a book and it's like, you know, like Mel Robbins, like let them. There's one concept and let's put it into a book and that's amazing. I literally put like over a hundred freaking incredible concepts and techniques and tools into this book. And I just want people to have it because people need it and people deserve it. And it certainly doesn't cost what a coaching program costs. And so when it became an instant bestseller, I sort of, and you're going to think this is super flaky, but I sort of thought like, this is the universe just saying like, this is why you did this. It was the right choice because it was really hard, you know, and every time I was second guessing it for three and a half years, like why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? But that was why I did it. And I think that was just like something in the universe has to tell me like over the head, like, hello, this is why you did it. Well, and you know, people don't just come to you right, a book randomly. I mean, you have to, you have to possess something extremely special for a publisher to come to you. Right. And it not be vice versa because like I would venture to guess from everything that I've been in behind the scenes, 90% of the people that are writing books are going to the publisher like, I know that's how it usually goes. Yeah. I mean, I've seen it all weren't you're not James Patterson here. You know, the amazing I've eaten a picture novel, but everybody wants to read either. You know, so one, it's getting somebody interested that wants to publish it. And then two, it's getting the fascination of people, which is not easy, especially when you're covering a topic of people that can't pay attention in the first place. I know. I mean, he's telling you, if you look at it, that just kind of came to me now. Not only is it a big thing to write the book and get people, but you're appealing to an audience who's having struggle, you know, focusing anyway. Yeah. Maybe we're finishing a book. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I've read a ton of books. And sometimes you get a book that when it's conceptual based and it's not mystery or whatever kind of novel, it's a lot of verbiage that doesn't go anywhere. And it is a lot of the same thing being regurgitated in just different ways of conveying the same message. So, when you're telling me you're giving away all these concepts, that also is a big deal. Because I think a lot of people, when they write a book that are kind of doing an informational book, it's almost leading people to try to get them to come take their class or whatever they're selling. I know. I was so conscious about that. Don't sound salesy. I don't even, I'm like every time I mention coaching, I'm like, or you could do this or that or the other thing. Like, don't, it's not about that. It's not about getting clients. We don't need that. I mean, there's, there's, yeah. So I'm a deep, um, analytics guy and reviews guy in research. What people are really saying, not fake stuff, real stuff. So these are all the hurdles and the, I always look for barriers to entry on anything that I do. And when I'm advising or helping somebody, what's the barrier that you have to overcome to make this successful? And it starts with motive and then it goes, just goes from there on factually now. And I think that my point here is that it's very clear and evident that you took all of the right steps with the right reasons and did the right things. And this is what comes from it. So I applaud you. Thanks. Thank you. That means a lot. Thank you. Well, it's nice. You know, because there's so many people with bad motives, unfortunately, but there are people with good ones. You just have to really are. You have to find them. Yeah. Yeah. You have to find them. And they're not like, I'm not on social media. You know, I like barely. Like so I'm actually very hard to find. Um, but there's others. There's others like us. Yeah. They really are. Yeah. I try to find them. And, and you know what is funny? They get brought to me and that's God's work. They just get brought to me. And I try to, when I'm looking through people, I don't have a team that vets people. I do it because I know the only other team I have is my wife because she can read people like inside and out that I'll say, what do you think? But otherwise I do it because I would miss so many things. If I let superficial people handle all that stuff that only looked at numbers and didn't look at the person or what they're doing. So thank you. I love it. Yeah. I love it. Exactly the same way. When people apply to work for my company, I'm the one that does the interviews. There never, like I don't have anyone on my team doing it. I have to do it because I can feel these people and whether they're better or not or if it's a fit or if it's not a fit. Well, how would you know if they resonate with you or not? You know, and it's not a, yeah. It's not a control thing. It's not a macho thing. It's a, it's a trusting for me, you know. And you resonate. You know, well, you do know, like you can feel it. I think. You click very quickly and you can read an individual and what their motives are for the most part. There's some slick people out there, but let's talk about the concept of ADHD because, and I use this word polarizing. And when I say that word, I mean it probably differently than a lot of people do. When I say polarizing, it's another way of me saying misunderstood. And so I think there's people that understand it and there's people that don't. And for me, it would be great if you would just break it down to people. What exactly it is in simple terms and then get a little bit more intricate into the details for you on why it's passionate to you. Why it is it means so much to you? And I know that you battled it yourself. And I like to hear the story because everybody's got a reason for why they get passionate about something. So it's great to know what drives you, what motivates you, what makes you do this. Yeah, well, there's a lot. There's a lot that makes me do this. It's ADHD in its essence is basically your brain has its efficiency in dopamine. End of story and you're born that way. ADHD is not something you catch. It's not something you get from eating, you know, red dye or walking too much TV as a kid. Or and on all of those things, you know, like all of the things that people are like, well, maybe you should try this or maybe you should get more sleep or eat less sugar. Um, those, those things exacerbate ADHD symptoms, but they're not ADHD. So people who have ADHD, it's important for everyone to know that those people were born like this. Just like you're, you're born with, you know, like your with any disability quote unquote. It's just a way your brain is wired and it's not actually a disability, but it is something you have to learn how to manage. And so and so when people say, oh my gosh, like life is so like during the pandemic, right? Everyone's like, oh, I feel so ADHD. It's, it's very minimizing because it's not stress and chaos and you know, disarray. Those are, that is not what ADHD is. ADHD is a deficiency in dopamine. The way to increase dopamine is through stimuli. That's why ADHD medication is a stimulant. Most of the time they're stimulants for better or for worse, that's just what it is. And it is also why people who had ADHD tend to, and I talk about this a lot in above, unconsciously create stimulus, whether it's, you know, just like constantly looking for something else, whether rather than just being totally present, or constantly, you know, catastrophizing, maruminating, or creating like, you know, a million different scenarios in your head. I'm when you're supposed to be present. Whatever your way of creating stimulus is, it's because that's what we need. You know, that's what our brain requires. It's like food for our brain. And so that is what ADHD is. It's painful to live with it and not know you have it because you're behaving in ways, you know, where you're unconsciously creating stimulus. I'm intense to get you in trouble at work, at school, in relationships, name it. You don't know why you do what you do. You don't know why you're on a different frequency as everyone else on the planet. You don't know why you're constantly, you know, you can't stop interrupting people. All right, because you already know what they're going to say. You're already at the end of their story, even though they just said the first sentence. And a lot of this is like, you just don't know why. And so when you're living like this as a child and then as a young adult and then as an adult, and you still don't know why, but things are not working out for you. It sucks. It sucks because nothing is working out. And even the things that are working out, they work out because you're working extra, extra hard at them. So it's just difficult. That's it. And in essence, I think for people to understand what it's like and it's imagine like most most neurotypical people, they're able to compartmentalize. Right? Like, Dylan, you know, your podcast to do, you've got something to do with your wife later, you've got something to do with, you know, some friends later on and after that, and you can kind of like put things in boxes. You know, like they've got their place. People who have ADHD are not able to compartmentalize very well. Got it. So we live, whether you're male or female, we live inside of an everything all at once right now, reality. Where every category of your life is all happening at the exact same time in your brain, right now and yesterday and tomorrow, instantly. And so that is why it is very difficult to be organized on time, presence, right? That is all why because in our brain, it's all happening all at once, everything, everything. There's nowhere to put anything. If something happens in your relationship, you know, part of life, it infiltrates, it like drips down and sucks off everything in your career and your, you know, your health, like it just, there's no separation between anything and that is a hard way to live. Yeah, I understand thoroughly. Let me ask you this and thank you for the breakdown. I appreciate it because it's, you made it very easy to comprehend and understand. I do wonder how prevalent of a problem is this, I guess we'll call it condition or, you know, way of being. Yeah, how prevalent like would you say, I'm sure you would have a statistic, 50% of people have this problem and, yeah, though, to expound on that question, do you find that it gets worse and worse and worse over timers that dependent upon the treatment and the person and the way they're raised or their circumstances? What are some contributing factors? I think if you have, here's the thing, if you have ADHD and it goes untreated, it will get worse because like I was, the ADHD doesn't get worse, but you feel worse. Okay. Because now you have, you know, you have like 10,000 more failures under your belt. Okay, and now you've just lost your 15th job in the last 10 years. Rather, you know, like, and now again, you know, your marriage didn't work out again. Maybe it's for the third time, maybe it's for the fourth time. I don't know, but as the failures, and I'm going to say failures is straight up because that's what people feel it as, and that's what the reality is for them before they reframe it. But if you keep stacking these up over time, by the time you're in your 50s and 60s, like people are literally saying that they haven't amounted to anything at all. And you know, there's no relationships left like even with their spouses or with their children or their parents or it's just, it's just, it gets sadder and sadder versus the younger people that have ADHD that come to us in their entering college. And they're just frustrated, but they're not, they're not. So I guess just like hopeless as a in general, right? In general. So in that way, it gets worse. And also the way that you do things in your life, and you know this because of what you do, the way you do things in your life become habitual. Yeah. So if you're always, you know, waiting to the last minute and you're habitually procrastinating and you're habitually catastrophizing and you're habitually arguing because there are you know people that are like argumentative, like they just, that's just how they are and they've never tried to stop. It's, it's just going to keep, you know, it's just going to keep accumulating a lot of adults. That's it. So that's how it gets worse. Do you find that people that are lacking in certain areas? So like they're lacking in sleep, for example, does that contribute to it? Are there any things that people are doing that they're not highly stressed individuals? People with hormone problems, low testosterone levels, does any of this correlator relate at all? Totally. Well, well, you know, in terms of, you know, for women for sure, as they get into midlife and then later in life, they go through parimenopods and menopods, like those, you know, estrogen affects dopamine. So now if you're, if your estrogen levels are declining naturally because of the phase of life that you're in and is causing you to have even less dopamine, you can imagine what that does to a woman who has ADHD and already has low abdominis, right? It's also why people all women, like for sure women who have, you know, whose estrogen levels are declining, they feel like they have ADHD, even if they don't have ADHD because the, because they have less dopamine. Right. There's almost like a brain fog that everybody talks about is, is very similar. It's very similar to ADHD. Yeah. Now let me ask you this then, are there natural supplements? Because like, for instance, one of the things that I talk to a lot of women in menopause is creatine and it, and the way that it helps them through menopause, are there supplements? We're going to get into medications a little, in a little bit in terms of, of menopause and everything, but I'm wondering if there's natural supplements that could be of benefit to people that are suffering from it because you know, you and I both know there are plenty of people that don't want to take any sort of pharmaceutical medication whatsoever. We're going to get into if it's needed. I know that there are probably going to be some instances where it is and where it's not because that's kind of standard with anything, but is there any natural things that you can recommend or that you've seen work? There are no natural supplements that I can recommend because when I hear a client or even three clients winging about a supplement and then we're like sharing it with other clients, it's almost like guaranteed that a bunch of other clients we're going to get sick from it. Sure. I'll have like really a verse of bags and it's like, okay, we can't do that anymore. It's like it's breathing it worked for you. It didn't work for you. I'm not a doctor. You know, like all I can say is that like 100% of the time moving your body, you know, is a great way to create. I call it positive stimulus. So if you think about it, we need stimulus, period and of story. That's what 80's, years need, male or female. So what are the ways that you can create positive stimulus versus negative stimulus? Right? Because the negative stimulus is always like the stuff that you do that gets you into trouble. Right. You know, like just name it. Like we all have like 20 different habits that we do that and this into trouble. That's also, you know, whereas that's also ways, you know, where, you know, a lot of women, you'll find that they're addicted to drama and they don't realize it even, but that's like a thing. Inability to make decisions that for men, especially, that's just so, you know, the whole getting into, you know, relationship issues where, you know, like extra, you know, other relationships inside of your relationship and just name it, just all of these things that we're trying to jack up our lives a few notches are negative stimulus if it's damaging what's in your life. Right? So, so basically the positive stimulus would be in terms of non-medication is really, I could break it down into two big categories, which is moving your body and physical state changes, which is huge and emotional stimulus, which would be having something really flip in great in front of you and working towards it because that win every day of whenever you've taken a step forward towards anything that you actually want, and there's honestly nothing like that and you know that based on your own experience. Every day, so I do heavy amounts of cardio every day, like 90-minute sessions and I'm telling you that that is one thing daily where I always feel accomplished. Yeah. Okay. So, I could be having the worst day ever and as soon as I go do that and I finish and I got through it, I feel like I really I'm feeling accomplished and I think this is a sports concept. So, my dad would always tell me when you're having a bad shooting night, just make a shot, make a layup, make something and instantly you're going because you know that you can do it, you just had to get out of your funk and then you feel it and then you go. Yeah. And what you're saying, I see how it could break, you know, the I don't want to call it a trance, but that loss of direction when you're having brain funk like I'm just having right now. But doing something like that, it's like boom pop, okay, let's go. You know, I'm back. So, I see what you're saying and I can see how that would work. Tremendously, that's really good advice because one of the things I've learned in biohacking, right, it's like the most basic thing if I just tell you, just take a walk in the morning and it's like, man, how did I not know that? But you need somebody to tell you. You need somebody to tell you and you need to break it down. Yes. Right. Like put your shoes somewhere that you're going to actually see them so that you put them on while you're making your whatever, a copy, any, whatever. And then when your shoes are on, it's a lot easier to get out the door. Yes. A hundred percent. But like everything has to be broken down into wins. I think if you're living a life on a path of small wins and most of us don't think like this, most of us do not think of wins. We're just thinking of survival and getting through the day. But if there's something that's even a little bit interesting to you or something that you stopped doing, that you wish you hadn't stopped doing and you wanted to just like do it again, but not in such a, like when you're like, you know, you do like 90 minutes of cardio, like for a lot of people, 90 seconds would be a huge, freaking huge goal. We could do 90 seconds of cardio a day. How about 10 seconds? You know, like just, just make it so that you can actually win and make it so that it's a guaranteed win and keep stacking those wins. And eventually you're going to be, you're not going to be like seeking out the nigh unconsciously seeking out the negative stimulus because your life is going to be, you know, start to become more full of stimulus that actually works for you. Which by the way is way more freaking engaging than the stuff that hurts you. Yeah, that's right. When you see that and you, and you see hashtag winning and that can mean so much for so many people in such a different variety of ways. You know what I mean? And I think when you look at that and you get this picture in your head of what that means of somebody's writing it and some people will look at that and think that the person is like feeling themselves, but I'm like, if I'm looking at it, I'm like, man, what did you do? Like what did you do? Let's hear it, you know, and it's a good feeling to write something like that and to feel that and then it releases a dopamine effect or whatever positive effect that can really help you kind of stay balanced. So I see we're going with that and it makes total sense. So that resonates extremely well. So let's talk about signs. Let's just say you got no clue, you know, that you have this going on because I'm sure there's people that probably have it nowhere near as like prevalently as another person does. So somebody might on the surface just you can just see it a mile away and some person might have not understand or realize it, you know. A lot of people. Yeah. What's some tell tell signs? I think the number one tell tell sign for all humans who have ADHD is the experience of overwhelm all the time. And I think I literally say overwhelmed all the time should be the cash phrase for ADHD because when you have a brain that cannot compartmentalize, everything is happening all at once. No matter what's happening, even if there's nothing happening, it's still all, you know, like all of the, you know, what's not happening is still all happening all at once. But if you, you know, your three shows on Netflix that you haven't seen, like, oh my god, I have to watch those three. But like real, you know, like you're what's going on at work. There's always like a thousand things going on. What's going on at home? If you have kids, if you have pet, if you have a partner, if you don't have a partner, right? Like there's a whole bunch of stuff that goes along with that too. And so it's just, but it's all compiling upon itself. And you can't, you can't reach in and just take out one thing and look at it and be like, okay, this is how I can help with this. And this is how I can manage that. And here are the steps I need to take. It's like, you're just so flibb and overwhelmed by all of the different categories and things that are not working and everything that you need to potentially do to try to make it better. And it's just constantly feeling like you're a deer caught in headlights. And I think that, and you just don't know what to do when. If you have the feeling often that you are a deer caught in headlights and you're frozen or paralyzed within that feeling and you're not exactly sure what you need to do when. And that's been your story for a lot of your life. That would be a big telltale sign. Okay, got it. Makes sense. Yeah. And then, you know, if you think about it, if you're living inside of that overwhelm, how are you supposed to get anything done? Like how, really, tell me, how do you go from point A to point B? Nobody knows. That's why I do what I do. That's why I do what I do. Because it's like, you're literally like when you were asking at the very beginning, like, what caused me to want to do this? It's like at the end of the day, having someone, and this is so the opposite of what coaching should be, what we do is really not what a lot of people say coaching should be. It's actually much more like athletic coaching. You know, you've got a coach and they're telling you exactly what to do. Here's where you run. Here's how much you do this. Here's how much you live there. And here's where you should pass and all of that. That's, that's what we do. We're very directive. We're very directive because our clients and myself, as to like our people with ADHD are literally swimming in overwhelm. So what's the first step for somebody that is like, you know, feeling like they have it or they've got these signs, what should they do? What would you recommend them to do? I would recommend that they learn how to manage it and go get a diagnosis if they haven't already, so that they know exactly what's going on. Because you have to know what's going on. And if you want to fix it, you can't, you know, anything you're having your life that's broken, that you need to fix. Not that, you know, we're not broken, but if there's something that needs to be managed or fixed, you have to know what it is. You're going to be spending a lot of time patching up things that aren't the thing that needs to be fixed. That's why our proper diagnosis is really important. A lot of people with ADHD are misdiagnosed. And that's where I'm going. So the chances are, and I'm not saying, I am not saying this is every single situation, but what I am saying is, chances are high, you just go to a regular doctor, you tell them certain things, they just put you on something and send you on your merry way. Because I can't imagine that they sit there and go longer in five or 10 minutes with you. That is just general practitioner, behavior, training. And so my question is, where do you recommend somebody to go to get an accurate assessment and not just get thrown on, possibly thrown on medications they don't need? Well, that's the whole, I wanted to, I wanted to to just mention that if you just tell your GP, or your family practitioner, like the person you go to for a yearly checkup, that you're feeling a little bit lost, you feel overwhelmed, you're, this isn't working out, that's not working out. You don't know why you're losing your patients, you're getting angry. That's a big one for men. They just like the frustration leads to anger often. And they don't know why and it's really hard for them to control. So if they're telling that or a doctor about that, the doctor is going to give them like a self-assessment question for, you know, anxiety, probably, where even depression in some cases, and the symptoms for anxiety and depression overlap with ADHD. So you'll more likely be diagnosed with anxiety or depression because I won't think of ADHD, which is why I think you should go to an ADHD specialist. Okay, so there are specialists that are there that you can go to and because that, my other concern was, is it easy to put somebody on an antidepressant when they don't need it or, I say, Xanax or whatever you, the ProZac, whatever they put you on anymore. I don't know what they get for anxiety anymore. I just know what that, you know, in the past, I mean, it's kind of scary. That's one of the things that I can compare and contrast like when I get people that come to me and say, I'm tired. I need testosterone. You know, like, hold on a second here. Let me, let me, let me do some digging first, please. So is that a big problem? Do you see a lot of misdiagnosis or misprescribing over prescribing? Do you see this a lot? Because I'm sure that you run into this. I see it all the time. I see it all the time, Dylan. I don't know of a single woman who's over the age of 30. Diagnosis with ADHD when she wasn't first misdiagnosed with either anxiety or depression. Okay, it's like we all have the exact same story. No matter where we're from, no matter where we live right now, no matter how much, you know, our body size, our net worth, it doesn't matter. Everyone has the exact same story. It's wild and it's, and it's sad because these stories are still going on. It's like, you know, right now, today, after everything that we know and the amount of destigmatization around mental health, there's still so much misdiagnosis and mismanication. So like the amount of women who have ADHD that are like taking anti-depressants and it's not helping them, which by the way makes things a lot worse because now your doctor, your doctor is totally went to do. You're doing exactly what your doctor says and you still feel like this and things still aren't working. It's that's to me that's it's it's tragic and it's scary. It's frustrating. That's why I do what I do and I bring people like you on that are doing things in all different facets of health and wellness that find this same problem related to their field so that we can try to fix it and educate people on how to stop this shit that's going on. You know, there you go. So let me show you. I don't know if this is going to be on video and I can read it out loud. We'll do this. This is the GAD7 the generalizing anxiety disorder 7 that your doctor will give you in the United States. If you if they're giving you a self assessment for anxiety, okay? Every single one of the seven points are ADHD symptoms. That's how much overlap there is. So you will automatically get this and you will be diagnosed with anxiety if you have ADHD. So it's like so here's the anxiety questionnaire feeling nervous anxious or on edge. There's no person with ADHD who doesn't experience that. I'm not able to control or stop worrying. There's no person with ADHD who doesn't have that especially women worrying too much about different things. Trouble relaxing. How wonderful. I'm sorry, but I like come on. Being so restless that it's hard to sit still. Becoming easily annoyed or irritable. Feeling afraid as if something terrible might happen. Katastrophizing is like our number one go to for creating stimulus. These are all ADHD symptoms, but this is the GAD7 for anxiety. Okay. A hundred percent of us will be misdiagnosed with anxiety if we have ADHD and we don't shack out the ADHD diagnosis, which by the way still needs work also, but you will be you're going to get a diagnosis of anxiety if you have ADHD. That's what I'm trying to say because the symptoms completely overlap with each other. What's the differentiating factors then? Overwhelmed. Okay. Exactly what I was saying before and just in general more in depth knowledge around the ADHD. So for example, this is anxiety, but if you've had ADHD, let's find out if all of these symptoms are things that you've had for your entire life. Are you also like do you also have a brain that has a hard time compartmentalizing, which then leads you to the overwhelm to procrastinate often because you just don't know when or how to start. You need to go a lot deeper. You need to ask a lot more questions to get to the diagnosis of ADHD. So I'm relating this to myself a little bit here because I developed anxiety when I was about 18, 19, but there were situations that caused it. So I'm saying like causation with anxiety something caused it. It wasn't something you were mentally born with. Right. That's correct. Yeah. That's totally different. So yeah, a lot of people are like you know, ever a lot of people are like since I had children. Just saying you know, I felt you know, a lot more anxious because now you have these lies that you have to make sure that you're responsible for, which is very scary. But ADHD is really, you know, I've had these symptoms for my whole life. Plus I have all of these other symptoms that they're not asking you about on the anxiety questionnaire. Yeah. But if you have ADHD and you're then taking an anti-anxiety medication, it's not going to help your ADHD as much as managing your ADHD will. Right. Sour. That's that's it's just really important that people get a correct diagnosis. So if you've got a diagnosis and you think that it's not working or what your doctor is giving you isn't working, don't fret. Just get a different diet like just go just look into it a little bit more deeper. Maybe it is ADHD. Maybe it's something else. So don't worry. Whatever it is, it's manageable. So how does having ADHD tend to affect self-confidence, self-esteem, our abilities to converse with others, the relationships that we have with others? How does that damage a person's ability to do these things? Is it bad? Is it manageable? Is it dependent on the person? So number one, it's manageable. But it's bad because we never warns how to do it. Nobody knew it's if you have ADHD, you didn't know you had it, right? Until you're diagnosed. So you just know that you're operating on a very different frequency as everyone around you. And you don't know why because you're on a different, it's almost like it really, I think our frequency is the best word to describe it because you're like up here, you're like vibrating somewhere like this. And everyone else seems to be like this going at their own pace, right? And you're like, you're just not matching with the rest of the world. And it's why a lot of us think that we're very high speed, but we're not necessarily high speed. We're just ahead. We're like moving further. We're past, even though we're behind. If that makes sense. We're already on the you know, the 50th question of this interview when you're only on the 10. If that makes sense. And yet we might not be like doing incredibly well at any of it. It's not like, wow, we're so amazing. We're so ahead of everyone. It's not that kind of ahead. It's almost like a, it's just a mental, like we're mentally past it, even though we're not anywhere near it. So this probably is making no sense. No, but oh, it does. It does. Okay. So that's really hard when you're in a relationship because you're constantly thinking like, you're just constantly thinking that the person that you're in a relationship with or you could be a romantic relationship, it could be a friendship. They're just not in alignment with you. And it's really hard to find people who are at the same frequency or the same speed. And when you do, it could be explosive, but not in a good way. Right? Because you kind of need somebody to balance you also. So there's a lot. There tends to be a lifelong feeling of being misunderstood by everyone. Because you don't feel gotten, you don't feel understood. You feel like even communications get missed a lot. Because when someone's talking, you're already like at the end of whatever they were singing. So you didn't really hear what they were talking about. And you probably missed most of it. Yeah. And now they're really mad at you because weren't you listening? You were standing right in front of me nodding your head. Like, where were it? Like, how did you miss this? Right? But it's because you were with them. And then you were already past it. Yeah. I give a lot of talks and I do a lot of breakdowns and a lot of intricate stuff. And I'll see. And there are so many times where I see people doing this and I like, look, and I'm like, man, shit, I don't know if you're like even there. If you know part of the time. So I, yeah. Yeah. No, I see it. I do. And I ask you my relationships. I think that's the hardest place. I think that is the number one pain point. Okay. I think that would I would I would venture to gas that like 98% of all of our clients have a hard time being in relationship. A lot of us are in relationships. And there are a lot of times they're fantastic and good, but it's really, really hard. It takes like extra efforts. It's not just about remembering, you know, let me I hope I don't forget his birthday. Yeah. And I see, I mean, for me, this is just a maybe a me thing. But I, I really relate this to in general that I think the number one key to any successful relationship, whether it's marriage, friendship, whatever the relationship work is communication. And if there's a struggle or a lack in communication, it can really make the relationship itself quite difficult to function properly and to ever be as good and tight as it could be. And I feel like people that are suffering from ADHD probably have a struggle with communication because of their lack of focus. And I think that maybe and I'm look, I'm just spitballing here, but I think a lot of the nodding and a lot of the acting like they're here and stuff, they may not hear us to preserve that relationship or to make it feel maybe better than that actually is. And it's not on purpose. It's just like, can't focus on you. I can't do this. I can't do that. Am I right? Am I crazy? You tell me. And your right is definitely a self-preservation. If I'm nodding my head, they're not going to hate me. They're not going to, you know, they're not going to break up with me today. Yeah. No, I'm really here. And you know, when you're saying you're here and you're nodding your head, you realize that you're still barely, you're trying so hard to be attention. You're trying so hard and it's not easy, right? Let's just be that difficult. I have a whole chapter in my book just on communication, just on communication. And the entire, I guess, the main theme are other ways to listen because we're horrible at listening because the volume in our brain is so loud. It's so loud. So we've got this like, it's not like we just have thoughts going through our head. They are loud, loud thoughts and they are demanding our attention. And because of thoughts going through our head are usually more interesting than when the other person is talking about our brain, which needs stimulus, it's going to like completely focus on the much more interesting thoughts going on in our head than on the, you know, probably somewhat boring, mundane thoughts that the other person is talking about. Yeah. So that's going to be where our brain is. We're not going to hatch on to what the other person is saying. So I have an entire chapter just on communication, which is really about how to listen so that you can actually grab what the other person is saying. Maybe this is like the humanized side of me. Maybe it's the, because I've been praying for more compassion in my life, but I feel almost like bad right now. Now, thinking about a person that wants to hear and want you to think they are and they're struggling so bad. Like I'm internally, I'm actually feeling really sorry for the person that is struggling and and how they may feel. And secondly, how I may have gotten pissy at someone in the past. Like, why aren't you listening to me when they really tant? Right. And it's not their fault. And I almost like, I, I'm feel bad right now. Honestly, like thinking about it from that perspective, because I've never once looked at it like that. And I'm always missed or open yourself when someone else just shoes. But if you don't understand what they're dealing with, you can't. And so what you're saying actually just hit me in a way that I wasn't expecting. And I think maybe if it hit me like that, maybe other people listening, it will also hit them. Like maybe you should think about that first before you just get mad at somebody or make them feel a certain way like they might be struggling and it might not be. Yeah. They might be struggling. You might know whether they are or aren't. Right. Like if they have other, if you think, well, if you've ever thought like this is for some just have a hard time being present in general. In every area of your life of their life, and you know what's on about you, I wonder if they're listening to you or not. They just they just have a hard time being present in anything. And that especially is really hard for them. Yeah. It's really hard for them. And there's ways that they can listen better. And you know, there's there's things that they can do to help them become better listeners for other people. But until they learn those ways, it's going to be it's one of the hardest things to do. So just if I were like right now, whoever you're just thinking about, if there's anyone in your life that you think like Dylan, what you were just saying, like now you're feeling really bad, I had to come back, you know, maybe they couldn't just write their names down now so that you don't forget what when our time is over. And then you can reach out to them and you can ask them and you can just think about them a little bit more, like solidly like, are you know, maybe maybe they just can't be present. Maybe they just have a really hard time with that. Maybe I can help them. Yeah, I just I think that maybe people should try to think about things more before you get upset with somebody or think they're just not listening to you on purpose. So it's something to consider now if they're playing on their phone or something, that's something else, right? Just put your phone down. Yeah, it's seriously. Oh, let's shift now to what you do, how you help people, your work, so to speak, and on what you've done your whole career now, what is it that people can come to you for help with your coaching, your guidance, what is it that you actually do for people? Can you talk about the structure a little bit? Yeah, we, there's no two people that come that come to us with the exact same issue or problems or lunges. Everything we do is very, it's it's it's it's it's targeted to the individual. So if you were to come to me because you know, you know, you had this, you know, you want to get better at XYZ, and this is your number one, these are your challenges, but these are your goals, right? And this is what you want. We would like your, you know, what we would do for you is, is would be completely in alignment with helping you manage your challenges and making sure that you achieve whatever your goals are, making sure of it, you know, basically creating like, like how you would create a food plan, or I don't know if you would do that, but media would, for some of the, but now we actually do a with you, and we make sure that we were watching you eat it. You know, like we are making sure that you're doing it. We're not just giving you something and say, you know, buy, call us in a month, like every single week, we're we're having you do things on the spot with your coach, you know, whether it's like creating for your health, a plan, or whether it's creating, you know, something, it's something for for you to better be able to, to manage your emotions, which I think is gigantic, because if you don't manage your emotions or your mood, how are you going to follow through on any time management strategy you have, you're just not going to feel like doing it. So you won't. So, you know, I feel like mood and emotion management is is gigantic. We do all of these things with you, and then you do it throughout the week, and then we give you a one focus that you have to practice every single day between your sessions, and then you have to send us like proof that you're actually doing it. So like we're all over you. It's really it's amazing. It's like it's it's it's exactly what I would need, which is why I've designed it like this. Like it's like literally having a personal trainer with you, you know, and watching you watching you do the sit-ups to make sure you're you know, you're doing it correctly otherwise you're just going to hurt your neck. Yeah, and and just yeah, like really fine tuning and making sure you're doing everything and 100% guaranteeing wins. It's that most stimulus that we need. We have to have those wins. And so, and the wins come from you, the you know, we're the client, like we're not going to tell you what a win is, like you tell us, and and we make sure you do it. And then that just keeps everyone's like on fire. Everyone's on fire. You know, it's like this win and that win and that win and every month we get wins, wins, wins, wins. And it's just like it's unbelievable and it's beautiful because a lot of these wins are wins that would never have happened in a million years. Or like things that people have been thinking about for 20 years and never did and never could start. They couldn't start. Why? Because they are in so much overwhelm. They didn't know how to start. Yeah, totally. No, they know they're good. How many people do you know that know they should and know exactly everybody knows what they need to do. That's the whole thing, but people can't do it for so many different reasons. So if you have ADSG and your reason is that you're just you just don't know where to start and you can't follow through and everything else is getting in the way. And also you have these other 15 things that you need to work on, which is like the majority of our clients really sure you can do all of it. Period and the story. I love it. So I mean, you there's a high level of accountability here. Oh my gosh, it's insane. I used to threaten our clients. Like it's all remote, but I used to tell people like I will find you. I will. I will. Like nobody wants to deal with me if they're if they haven't done what they said they're going to do. Hey, you know, I mean, I I one of the things that I personally have the biggest problem with and struggle with is accountability. I have actually it's a thing I'm working on right now called the lost art of accountability. So I get it. And and I think that that is one of the things that we all are lacking in some sort of way. And I think once you start to master that, that's when everything opens up and changes, you know, like for for all conditions, even people at every, no condition. Yeah. We always need somebody else. We always need something else. I don't think an app is going to do it because nobody cares. They out with the app things. You know, nobody actually cares. And so we make people send us proof, not just to say, if you tell me you did something, you have to show me. Yes, I love that. I don't want to get a text saying I did it. Okay, I can do that. I could send that text. Yeah. Now, I mean, what? I mean, send me a video. Yes, I love it. And it'll be. Those are hilarious, Dylan. Like, they're amazing. And the clients love it. Like, we all love it. It's just it, this upping the antsy a little bit. I know the answer to this, but maybe you have a percentage because I'm sure the the initial answer is going to be, well, it's different for everybody, which it should be. But average time somebody stays in your course before they start to either, you know, see change, feel better, get, you know, move on. What does that like for you? So I get to say that people start to see results instantly because they're actually doing things on the spot with their coach. Is it trying? Yeah. So immediately, they've just done something that they didn't do for the last ever, you know, however many years or months or whatever it was, they're doing something. So, so I think that's important because for me, I'm a very, I am a very impatient person. And I'm working on it. But if I, if I sign up for something and I'm not getting a result after the first meeting, I'm going to, I'm probably going to say you guys are idiots. You don't know what you're doing yourself. Like, which is so bad. And why I have no friend, no, I'm kidding. But like, it's just, it's just really, I need results right away. And so that's how I designed, that's how I did this. There's no, well, let's give us the first three months. We're going to be, you know, like, reformulating your big Y and coming up with your purpose, there's none of that. It's like, let's just get this stuff done. We have to do this right away. We're going to go all into like the deeper, you know, because we all had deeper blocks. But that comes up after we have to create bigger goals and bigger wise. I need to know what's really going to propel you when things get tricky, because things always get tricky. So not if, but when obstacles come, come up, what are we, you know, what's going to get us to go past those obstacles? And so there's so many different levels and layers to the coaching, but people have to get results right away. Yeah. And the average time people stay, of course, is different for everyone. We don't walk anyone in to anything, which is dumb for a business model that works only with 80 years, because we're so non-committal. It's really a bad idea for business. Yeah. I like, I designed it for people like for, like myself. If I, if somebody tries to walk me into a program, I'm just not going to do it. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm not going to start because you're up to something or there's something sneaky or you're trying to like rip me off or so people come and they can leave at any point. No questions asked. And so everyone just goes month by month. Yeah. I'd say the average person is probably here for eight months to one year, which is pretty freaking amazing. If you look at how long people have been with their therapist, which is like 10 years, 20 years. And they're still not. And they're still like not even moving forward sometimes. But I want people to, if you're in your 40s or 50s and you've had a lifetime of ADHD, you're, you're going to need some time to get, you know, to learn all of the strategies that you need to learn to get, you know, to basically have for the rest of your life. This isn't like, here's some time management strategies that you can get out of a book because you can get everything out of this book for sure. And there's other books out there, right? There's a lot of books, but it's not about that. It's about doing it in a specific way, right? Practicing it in your life. And so we don't, I don't want people here for 20 years, but I say eight months to a year and you're and most people are like fantastic. They're in a completely different place, which, which is beautiful, which is why I'm doing this. Do you have people that do it and then they come back and maybe it's just for, you know, positive reinforcement, be a fine tuning, whatever the case may be. People that are like, they come here, they're here for a bit and then they graduate and they're like amazing. But then something happens in their life. Like they lost a parent or, or something happened with their company and there was like a bunch of layoffs and they were one of them and just something happens where they get stuck again. Yeah. And they come back, but not usually for very long. But it happens. It doesn't really happen that often. I think that's a good thing actually. Like again, it's not about like for a business model, you want to keep having people come back and like, but it's not real about that. It's not about that. I just really, I just really need to help these people. I don't always have to be for a negative reason. They come back either, though, just like you said, for some fine tuning. Sometimes it's just like, yeah, I just want to see you. I want to hear you again. I want this. I want this back again. I feel like, you know, I, yeah, I mean, that that happens. But I mean, we're usually coaches tend to stay in touch. Even like a client leaves and a client like send us, we get a lot of successes from past clients. Like, that's just beautiful. You know, and people do come back. But I would say not that, often usually we get we get their successes by email. I just feel with your book in particular that that is not necessarily just for somebody that has that condition. I think it would be beneficial for everybody to learn about, to understand, to comprehend for people around them, to grasp kind of the way that the world is and why people perhaps behave that the way they do. I think it's good to be analytical to understand personality types. Things people are dealing with. So I think that the education in there is not just necessarily for people that have it, but for people that just need to understand humanity a little better or people. And I think the people that are looking to do their own business, to do anything with communications, to do things like that. It's like another portion and piece of the puzzle that you don't learn in a business textbook. You don't learn in class for finance or accounting. This is the personal side of things that you need to know. Yeah. A lot of people have actually told me that this book is for everybody. Yeah. Anybody who has overwhelmed. You know, like, like, McMillan publishers wanting me to write a book for ADHD and women, right? And I did. But the tools in this book are for everyone. So there's no, there's no human that's not going to benefit from learning how to listen better. To learning how to, you know, the state changes to stay focused on the right thing for the right amount of time that you need to be doing it. Like, I feel like if these tools work for people who have ADHD, they will actually work a lot more easily for people who don't have ADHD. Yeah. But we all know. I see, I totally feel the merit there. I'm, I am constantly studying and learning and trying to understand human behaviors as times change. And even if they haven't changed, and look, just because you don't have a diagnosis of it, doesn't mean you don't have a little bit of it either. And maybe that's something you need to learn about yourself too. And, you know, it could be a, I mean, we all have small problems of some kind and it may not be a big one, but it could be something there that we don't even realize we have that could help. So I think that what you've done is something for everybody, not just a intended group of people, even though it's a big group of people, I think it's more for everybody, you know. I think so too. I think so too. I can't really, I mean, it has like ADHD and big letters in front of the cover. But the truth, the truth is, is it really is like, yes, like life management, mood and life management. Now I think it's fascinating. I think it's great. I think that you're great. I think that your message is and I think what you're doing is and I'm really glad I was introduced to you and it was brought to my attention and that I waited to touch this topic on until it was you that touched on it because I think you were the perfect person to do it. And so I appreciate your time, your efforts, your message and your direction and your motive. I think it's all great. Thanks, Dawn. I appreciate you. Absolutely. No, you do. I mean, you're doing it on a pretty big level, which I think is amazing. And you're very, you're one of the most real. Thank you podcast hosts out there. You're just awesome. Yeah. Thank you. I'm a you get what you get person and some people don't like it and some people do. But I'm the same guy that's talking. And now you know that on off camera. I don't I don't give a shit. You're going to get what you get, right? Back. It's perfect. Thank you. Yes. Well, do this for me. I'll link everything, especially where to buy that masterpiece. But tell everybody where they can follow you best places to maybe possibly reach you. I know it's not social media. So what do we got to do to tell you? That place to reach me is adhd coaching.com. There you go. adhd coaching.com. And the book, you know, if it's specifically for the book, it's invisible adhd.com. We have a website just for the book. You can just go to Amazon. If you're interested and and if you do end up reading it, I would love to know what you think. Yeah. And I think you're going to love it. And yeah, just just, you know, get what you got from this book and go prosper. Awesome. Well, like I said, you're great. You're amazing. Your work is amazing. I appreciate it. I know the audience is going to appreciate it. We're going to make sure that a lot, a lot, a lot of a lot of people see this here at understand it and keep it in their mind. What's going on a little bit more? I think it's it's great. So thank you for your time and congratulations. Thank you. Not everything. Thank you. Confiscate and you should be proud. So all right, everybody. Once again, another amazing and lightning episode that I am truly blessed to bring you. Stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jamelli and Sean Appierson signing off.