Sales Expert Shelby Sapp: The Simple Sales Framework You Can Use in Work, Money, and Relationships (Follow THIS Method to FINALLY Get The Life You Deserve)

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The way that you talk to yourself in your own mind. Sales to me is freedom. I full heartedly believe that if you teach anybody sales, she'll never go broke again. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. Today I'm joined by Shelby Sapp. Entrepreneur, sales leader and founder. Shelby went from door to door hustling to building a powerful online movement using social media to help thousands of people gain real sales skills, confidence and financial independence. Today she's sharing why the skills that helped her succeed in sales can help you communicate better, build trust and create the life that you've always wanted. Whether you work in sales or not, this episode is for you. If you want to know how to negotiate better and persuade people, this episode is for you. And if you want to know how sales skills could transform the entirety of your life, this episode is for you. Please welcome to On Purpose, Shelby Sapps. Shelby, it's great to have you here. I know, I'm so grateful to be here. This is amazing. Thank you. Well, ever since I discovered your content, I remember messaging you and just thinking, I can't believe we weren't taught sales in school. Oh, it's ridiculous. I can't believe how many mistakes we make in our life because we're bad at sales. And I just think if everyone had better sales skills, as I said earlier, whether you work in sales or you don't, I feel like our whole life is sales. We're constantly pitching, we're constantly presenting, we're constantly trying to communicate our ideas to people. All of those things are sales, right? So I want to hear in your words, whether someone's in sales or not, why is it important to have sales skills? So everybody thinks that sales is a job when it's a skill set. And yeah, you can monetize that skill set very well, but sales is a way to have better relationships, better friendships. The way that you talk to yourself in your own mind, like you can roll your own objections that tell you, I'm not good enough, I don't deserve this. To make you really believe that you do deserve a better life in every single aspect. So sales to me is freedom because I fullheartedly believe that if you teach anybody and specifically a woman's sales, she'll never go broke again for the rest of her life. There's always something to sell. Your stuff, other companies, and not only just the money side, but also, you know, it changes your friendships, it changes your relationships in every facet of your life. It allows you to gain control because you have to have, if you want to be good at sales, you have to develop a figure it out mentality. Like you just have to figure it out. And your mentality is like, if somebody tells me no, that's fine, everybody's gonna tell me no. I'm just gonna go no, no, no, no, no, until I get my yes. And that kind of a mentality that sales has to teach you, it will make you successful no matter what you do. Yeah, I don't have a sales job, but the amount of things I constantly have to pitch, share, communicate, it's unbelievable just how every area of our life is a sales job, without even thinking about it. One thing you just said really resonated with me, I've never heard it put like that. You said that we even have to sell ourselves in our own mind to ourselves. Talk to me a bit about that because I've never had someone say that before. Right, so rolling objections in sales is like the scariest thing, that everybody's like, oh my gosh, I have to turn a no into a yes, or a negative into a positive. But when you roll other people's objections, and when you really fight for somebody to transform their life, whether that's in your own business that you sell, or whether you're selling somebody else's offers, you learn how to fight for other people, and then you replicate it in your own mind. So everybody goes through the same thoughts of, this is too risky, or I should stay safe, or I'm not good enough, or these limiting beliefs, but you have to tell yourself, okay, I'm feeling that fear, I'm feeling that kind of hesitation, that's negative energy. I need to turn it into positive energy in order to move forward. So you can roll your own objections, which is like, I'm not good enough. And then it's like, I totally hear you calming, easing. Can I challenge that belief? That's what I always say to people. Whenever I roll objections, it's always I hear you, but can I challenge that belief for a second? And then you challenge that own belief with somebody else, but also with yourself if you need it too. And it's how you just reframe your brain into, okay, I'm inputting something that's negative, but I'm going to feel that, I'm going to roll that objection, reframe it, and output something positive. Yeah, and I love that acknowledgement, that the feeling's real and the fear's there, but how do we challenge it? And I think you're so right that most of us, if our mind says something, we just believe it to be true. Exactly. So if your mind says you're not good enough, you're like, yeah, I guess I'm not good enough. Exactly. Or your mind says, no, people like you don't get to play, you don't get to places like that. Your mind says, yeah, that's probably true. And we give up. Talk to me about what are the three sales skills that we can use everywhere in our life to get everything we want? Knowing somebody's leverage, okay? You can set in sales, you can sell the same thing 10 different ways. Tell me about that. Okay, for example, if I am selling a fitness program, okay, I'm going to close, I'm a closer on a fitness offer. I can sell to somebody who wants to lose weight. I can sell to somebody who wants to gain weight. I can sell to somebody who has some health problems and an urgent need right now. And I can sell to somebody for prevention, for just overall health. So there's a bunch of different ways that you can sell things. So if you try to sell the same thing, the same way to different types of people, you're only going to get those specific people that the leverage was built. So what your job is, is to identify the specific leverage. And by leverage, I mean pain points. So different people have different pain points and what's going to motivate them in order to make a buying decision. So to kind of like back up, you need to understand somebody's leverage points and what they specifically want and what will change their day-to-day life by making a decision. And once you find the leverage points, that's the problem. The solution is whatever you're selling them. Or, you know, whether that be a promotion, whether that be, you know, your boyfriend rolling objections with him, whether that be literally anything. The world is problem and solution. And if you can build enough value around people's pain points, there you go, you can solve anything. So that's the fast skill. Mm-hmm. What are the other two? So leverage and then building value. So if you can provide value to people, you will never be broke again, but you can also just unlock so many different relationships because you can build value with people. So value looks like you insert their pain points, which is what they want solved. But then you not only provide them a solution and just reading off what's included or, you know, how you're solving it, I call it sell the sizzle, not the steak, because nobody cares about what you're selling. They care about what it does for them on a day-to-day basis. So that's the solution part. Then we get into the third, which is, I call it the kiss method, but it's keeping it simple, stupid. Life will get so much better for you if you understand that people don't necessarily say no to you, because they don't want it, or they don't, you know, want you around them or whatever. It's because you're not clear, you know? So if you make your ask clear to where somebody knows exactly when I hand over my credit card or exactly when I give this person this promotion or exactly when I give you this job, I know exactly what's going to happen. You give them clarity. And then the fourth thing is just ask. You never get anything done if you don't ask for it. Like, I created a career off of being annoying. Literally, like, selling people, you have to be a little annoying. Growing a business, you have to be a little annoying. Content, you have to be a little annoying. But those people that step out of the box and just accept that being annoying or maybe a little pushy or just a little out there delusional, that is what's going to put you in the rooms that you didn't really think you deserved, but the plot twist is you do deserve it because you asked for it. Yeah. Tell me about the people, and I want to speak to the skeptics or the cynical people who are like, oh, well, if I'm talking to people's pain points, then I'm manipulating them. I'm taking advantage of them. What's the difference between ethical sales and doing it properly and then taking advantage of other people or manipulating them? How would you talk about the difference? For sure. So everybody thinks that sales is manipulation, but it's actually emotional leadership. So what I mean by that is when you are selling somebody that's a qualified buyer, which means they're somewhat interested in what you have to offer. They are here talking to you because they have a problem that they need solved. So it is your duty to, if they don't solve their problem, if they don't, you didn't do your job. You didn't help them. So what helps with this is actually selling something that you believe in. And so if what you're selling is yourself, like on a job interview or talking to a friend or your boyfriend, you have to believe in your worth. That's a big thing. But again, if you're selling something, you have to believe in the worth of what you're selling because that comes off in the conviction of your voice. And sales is 80% the conviction of your voice and the energy that you have when you're talking about your product. Like I always say, people buy your eyes in the way that you have passion coming through when you're talking about something. So at the end of the day, it's only manipulation if you don't believe that you can actually help this person. But when you really step into emotional leadership, where you're leading people through kind of a hard decision, do I buy something? Do I not? Do I change my life? Do I get a new job? Do I join this fitness program or whatever? You are helping people make a better decision for them in the long run. And if you do it right, they'll be thanking you. So it's very fulfilling. Yeah, absolutely. I'm thinking back to my first work experience when I was like 16 years old, my mom had asked for a favor from a family friend of ours to get me a job at this company at the Business Design Centre. This is an event space in England. And I worked at a company where we'd be selling event space to people for these big events. So there'd be an event about bikes, and we'd have to call up all these bike companies and sell them stands. There was a car exhibition, and we'd have to call up all these car companies. I knew nothing about sales, and I remember being trained to cold call. Like 300 people. Yeah. Okay, so what was your pitch? What was your cold call? I can't remember it fully because I was 16 years old, and I'd be on the phone, and I remember just the amount of times I'd be like, hey, I'm Jay Shetty calling from the Business Design... I think we were called Upper Street Events. Should be like, hey, I'm Jay Shetty calling from Upper Street Events. The amount of people that would just put the phone down immediately. And it's what you just said a few moments ago where you just had to get used to the fact. Now, the Business Design Centre was this beautiful event space. I really believed that it was a cool space to have events. It was one of the few places that really... Like, there were big fashion shows that took place. There was a really cool space. And it goes back to what you were saying, that it took me time to A, get comfortable with failure and rejection. B, get some conviction in my voice. And then finally get to a point where it was like, you're going to be exhibited at the number one exhibition centre in the UK. Because you believed it, now. Yeah, et cetera. And you learn from figuring out what's actually going to happen. And you'll show right that if you don't resets the product, you can't just read a script. For sure. And I think that's where the energy goes wrong when you just are repeating a script but you don't believe in it. Well, you said something interesting. It's like people will just immediately put the phone down. Just, no, I'm not interested. Boom. A lot of people think that in sales, you have to sell every single person. And when you get a no, that's an indicator that you're a bad sales rep, right? But in sales, you're talking to unqualified and qualified buyers. So a lot of the times if you're talking to someone that's unqualified, that you shouldn't sweat it. Your job, if you are cold calling or door knocking or doing any sort of cold approach, is just the way that I like to explain it, is you're almost sifting through the unqualified buyers. And you're more qualifying if they are worth your time. You're like, okay, you slam the door in my face? No problem. I'm one step closer to getting somebody that will listen to me. Or you hung up the phone super quick. Awesome. Thank you for not wasting my time because it would have drained my energy on somebody that I actually can't help. So in life in general too, you will learn that not every single person is worth your time. And there's a difference between somebody that does and doesn't. It's unqualified buyers and qualified buyers. So there comes a point in life where you just get some sort of confidence because you know that life is a numbers game. Yeah, and absolutely. And I think the point going back to my manipulation point is that if someone doesn't want it, you're not trying to convince the person to already put the phone down on you to pick the phone back up to convince them because you want to get a good target. You're accepting the fact that this isn't the right person. They obviously don't need this or want this. And that's okay. Talk to me about what people, you're in your 20s. What should people in their 20s be doing to have a great financial future? Oh my gosh. Okay, a couple of things. One, move out. You cannot change yourself if you are still tied to the perceptions that everybody else has around you. Like the people that you grew up with, they see you as your old version of yourself. So if you truly want like exponential quantum leap change of yourself, you need to almost kind of have a clean slate and not feel bad about, you know, presenting yourself a little differently or trying new things out. So I think, you know, old friends, old family members even, not that they're the problem, but it just makes it a lot easier when you do change your physical surroundings to also change yourself internally. I would also recommend when you do move by the most expensive gym membership, sit in the sauna and talk to everybody. One connection can literally change your life. And the amount of people that I've met just from talking to people in the elevator, you know, sitting in the sauna and just being open, not having a frown on your face all day and being a little bit approachable, it will change your life. And again, it's a numbers game. You might have some weirdos, you might have some randos, but that very few people that you do interact in a conversation with, you know, keep them in your back pocket because your network is your net worth, obviously. I would say use your credit card like your debit card. I've been a big, you know, proponent of that. Invest every 20 cents to the dollar is a good one. I wish I knew that a long time ago because I was always just spend, spend, spend, but I would literally shake myself and be like, just throw it into the market. It doesn't matter. Put it all in Bitcoin, whatever. And then I would say learn a high income skill because you need to provide value in the marketplace if you want to get paid for it. So mine was obviously sales, but there's copywriting, tech, AI, content creation, whatever your skill is, just hone in on it and be the best of the best and try to provide other people value. Because if you become an irreplaceable asset, you'll never be replaced. You know? And then the last thing, do the complete opposite of what everybody else around you is doing. If you look left and right and everybody's doing the same thing, do the opposite. If you want to have a different result, you need to do different things in order to have a different result. And then also be the best at whatever you're doing. So whether you are working as a barista, whether you're a server, whether you're a teacher, be the best. Like take pride in your job because that's something that nobody can take away from you. And a lot of that effort and skill set that you're getting right now is going to translate to what you actually want to do in the future. You just might not see it right now. That is a great list. I love that list. I just like, I remember like working at a coffee shop. I was a barista. It was one of my first jobs and I was the best barista ever. Like I was picking up every extra shift. I was door dashing on the side. Like I loved making money. And I knew it wasn't my forever job because I would look left and right and everybody was just showing up doing the bare minimum. Yeah. But I mean, maybe they were smarter because we were getting paid the same amount. But I think that sort of mentality where it's like, you know, you're a star, you know, the job that you're in right now might just be a stepping stone. It's okay though, because the skill sets in the work ethic that you have right now are going to pay you dividends throughout your whole life. So maybe you're getting paid the same amount as someone that's just showing up right now, but it's the work ethic that can never be taken away. Yeah. You're reminding me of, I don't know if you've ever seen this Tik Toker called Mark L Washington. No. So he used to work in Subway and he would sing to the customers as he would make their Subway sound. How cute. And people loved it. And that's how he got discovered. Someone filmed him, put it up on Tik Tok, got millions of views and now he has all these followers. Now he's left Subway. Exactly. You know, it's, I couldn't agree with you more. I always think if you can find a way to even make the job you hate attractive, fun and be passionate about it. Exactly. It's just a great skill in life and it transforms everything. You talked about building high income skills, high value skills, which I wish was talked about in college. I wish it was talked about earlier in school. I feel like it's completely missed because you kind of get taught or at least I don't want to teach you. It was like kind of be good at this, kind of be good at this, kind of be good at that. No one ever tells you like, Hey, pick something and become incredible at it and pick something that the world's actually going to value. How do you now that we've all left school? We're post college. How do you actually build a high income or high value skill? What does the process look like? Well, there's so much free content on social media. Like we literally live in an age where, you know, there's multiple YouTube videos. I literally just filmed a six hour YouTube video going over every single part of the sales process. Like if you want to learn, we now live in an age where you can learn. You just have to do the thing that nobody's willing to do, which is sit down and learn. And learn and take notes and practice with yourself. Reach out to companies, you know, get some experience and climb the ladder just like that. But so I would say learn from social media completely free. So many mentors right now will teach you anything. And then step number two is practice. And so when it comes to practicing, obviously we all have a dream job in our head. You know, oh, I would love to sell for this person. I would love to be on this person's sales team. But in the very beginning, you might need some data. You might need some experience. So I would challenge people to, yeah, keep that dream job in your head, but more so like build your data, build your experience right now with amazing lead quality with, you know, just a good system. That way you can have something in your back pocket when you do go to pitch yourself for that dream job. Yeah, absolutely. I can agree with you more. I feel like there's so much free content out there. But it's so hard because I think we look at like 30 seconds of a reel. For sure. And a lot of this is sitting down for a few hours. Like I remember when I was first learning social media, I was spending three hours every Saturday and Sunday morning just studying. Like for hours and hours and hours, for weeks on end, three hours, six hours a week on top of my day job. And I feel like if I hadn't done that, I wouldn't have understood social media the way I did. And eventually it became every day after work. And I had a full-time job at the time. It became five hours a day after work, sometimes up until 2, 3 a.m. Just trying to learn and study only to go back to work next day. I think there's so much truth to that and it is all out there. What do you find is the biggest difference between people who have sales skills and people who don't? Mindset. It's your ability to give context to a negative in order to turn it into a positive in your own brain. What do I mean by that? So in sales. Sales people develop this skill set that makes them great, which is somebody slams the door in your face or hangs up on you. And you kind of tell yourself, you're like, maybe she just got pulled over this morning and she's in a bad mood. Maybe he just got served divorce papers. Anyways, not my problem. I'm going to the next person. Even though that's probably isn't true, you're almost, I call it being a psycho, because you literally have to be some sort of level of psychotic in order to feed yourself a little bit of lies to give context around rejection. That way you can take it a little bit easier because it's like they're not rejecting you. They're rejecting, you know, the time or what you're actually selling. But it's your ability to really just play mind games with yourself of saying, hey, maybe they just had a bad day. Anyways, I'm moving on to the next person because there is someone who wants to talk to me. Even though the last 10 people might have told you no, you still have to walk into every conversation expecting that yes. So that level of skill set that you get from sales, it trickles into everything, into dating, into friendships, into the way that you talk to yourself. Being able to handle rejection will get you anything in life. What's fascinating to me is how you need it to get promoted. For sure. You need it to convince, like you said, potentially even a partner to know whether they're committing or not committing. You need it. Of course, if you run a sales job, let's walk through the sales process for people who are like, Shelby, I need this advice. I need everything you're selling right now because I need to transform my life. What's the first step? So sales as a skill set, if you want to learn like 60 second sales masterclass right now, here it is. So the first thing that you need to do is to establish frame and ease tension because anytime you walk up to a person, their sales resistance is high. They're like, who are you? Why are you here? Why are you calling me? I feel a little weird. So a quick little compliment goes a long way, but also just getting straight to the point. People try building so much fake rapport and trying to be a friend at first when it just comes off a little fake because they know why you're here. You're trying to sell them. So quick little compliment, something super easy and then just getting straight to the point. Hey, I'm busy. I want to be very tentative of your time as well. Is it cool if we just kind of jump right in? Start the sales process easy. Then we get into question based selling. So everybody thinks that you just start selling. You don't even know what you're going into yet. So question based selling is figuring out what somebody's leverage is, figuring out those pain points. So like, what made you book a call? What are you going through? Take me through your day. What made you want to figure something out? Then you will gather a little bit of data. I call it gathering ammo that you're going to kind of put in your back pocket in order to sell on later. So once you get these pain points from this person, that's your problem. Then you go into the solution, which is obviously what you are selling. And it's very, you have to be very careful because what you are selling is different to every sort of person. So you take these specific leverage points and you plug and play with specific solutions that only solve these leverage points. Nothing else. Keep it super simple. And then you pitch the price. Very simple. And when you pitch price, when you initially close someone, it's all about your energy. If you are almost anticipating an objection or anticipating a no, it's going to come off in your energy. And someone's going to give you an objection or tell you no, you know, the metaphor of the Starbucks cashier. So when you go up to Starbucks and you're ordering your like medium vanilla iced latte or I guess grande vanilla iced latte, you go up to the window. What does the cashier rep do? He holds the Apple Pay thing in front of you and he's like, okay, awesome. It's going to be $7. And he's like turning around doing something else. No option. No like weird vibes. He's just like, here, this is how much it is. Okay, awesome. And you're almost like scrambling around for your credit card. You're like, oh, sorry, I should have had that out. Here you go. That's the energy that you need when you pitch price and when you close people is, hey, you have these problems. Here's a clear game plan, a clear solution. And here's how much it's going to take in order to get you there. Like it's very simple. It's problem solution. And then I think what a lot of people forget to do is to solidify the sale, you know, because a lot of people will, you know, process a credit card and then just go straight to, you know, filling out paperwork or just acting like a robot and they stop actually connecting with this person. Meanwhile, after you like run somebody's credit card and after the initial close and they say yes, now you need to even further connect with people. So a little trick I have is you can positively future pace someone, which is I'm so excited for you to get started. A lot of people like to text me when they hit their first 10k months or when they lose their first four pounds or whatever you're selling. Would you mind keeping me in the loop for that transformation? Like I would love to be a part of your journey. Now somebody's like envisioning themselves not only following through with the process. Achieving the transformation, but also they see you as more of like an accountability coach rather than just the frame of a sales rep. Yeah. And they actually motivates them to. For sure. Because they're like, oh, now that I've committed to this, I could actually make that change. And I've actually committed to the process that makes that happen. Who gets what if you spend ages looking for the TV remote, you get the most chunks. And if you were 100% without a doubt, not sitting on it, but definitely were. Sorry, you get less. Cadbury made to share. Pick up a limited edition bar now. More. What's fascinating is that we're constantly being sold to. Exactly. And we're not selling that out of self. Oh my gosh. Everything you buy has been sold to you. And I feel like whether it's the clothes that you're wearing, the coffee you drink, the coffee shop you go to, the laptop that you use, the phone that you carry, like we're constantly being sold to, but we find sales so scary. Does that, right? No, for sure. I mean, even the videos that you watch on social media, somebody's selling you on why they're worth your time out of every other content creator that you could swipe to. Whenever you hit the follow button, somebody sold you on why they should be on your For You page every day. Like I went to the tanning salon yesterday. The most menial thing ever, just a simple tanning salon. He sold me on a $200 tan package. And I don't even live here. But I just loved his sales process and I love supporting other sales reps. Like when you learn sales, you just see life in a completely different way. Where when you get sold to, you almost appreciate it. I fully agree. You respect it. I love being sold to. Me too. I love being sold to. Like if someone's, because I also know when it's not working, there are shops that I'll go into where I'm like ready to buy. But then the experience is not great. And then I won't buy. And then there are other shops where I'm like, oh, I'm not sure if I want to spend any money today. And someone's really trying to sell to me. And I'm like, oh, I love this. Like they're really great at what they do. I respect it. Yeah. Sales is all about like, you know, making someone feel important and listen to. And that's why women are so good at sales is because women all day. What do we do? We call our friends, we talk to our friends, we hype our friends up. That's literally sales. Sales is hyping people up into, you know, pushing them into this higher version of themselves and making them really believe that they can achieve a transformation if they're given the tools to do so. That's sales. That's what you're doing. Yeah. It's a whole new life when you learn how to sell. Yeah. What's the best thing you've ever been sold? My pink G-Wagon. Okay. Who sold it to you? How did that process go? So I was kind of a lay down for it. I'm not going to lie. But I saw videos on it. It was this girl, car sales rep on social media. She's making videos of it. I get tagged in it a ton of times. I click on it. I'm like, oh, that's a cool car, but like, I don't really need a new car right now. I'm driving in Arizona, which is where I'm from. I look to my right and it's in the freaking window. And I'm like, out of all places, there's only one car that existed in the whole United States. I'm like, it's in Arizona. Like, what are the Kansas? So I go in there and the car sales rep, she shouts, Shelby. She's like, Shelby, I've been to so many of your master classes. I love you. I follow you on everything. And I think that initial connection and rapport. And then when she was showing me the vehicle, obviously she let me test drive it, but she was also telling me like, you could use this for content. This car is your name written all over it. And then she sincere closed me, which was turning the no away from the client to the product. And she made me have to say no to her, which I couldn't. So the sincere closes just like, I know you're going to buy a car at some point. I'm going to sell this to someone. If it's not you, it's someone else, but I want you to have it. And I want to be the one to help you get this dream car. So. Wow. Are you still friends with her? Oh yeah. She's awesome. Yeah. She's great. That's amazing. Yeah. And obviously you are happy with your purchase, which makes it better. I think that's the part is like when you're not happy with the value that you received, you're like, oh, wait a minute. I was, and you know, I've been to some fancy car spots trying to sell you some fancy cars. And they're not. Some of them, there's the technique that I've read about. Talk to me about this. Cause I saw this on social media and I've experienced it a few times where these fancy places try and make you feel less than so that you buy. I don't like that cause it feels uncomfortable. Right. So it is a real phenomenon. So I call it the Louis Vuitton sales technique. It's not specific to Louis Vuitton, but it was just a name I picked on. But yeah. So they, one, they hire attractive sales reps and two, they train those attractive sales reps to be a little bit dismissive to you when you're in the store. And this is a true thing because as a client, when you walk in and somebody's not all over you, Hey, what are you in here for? What do you want? Oh, did you see this jacket? You almost feel a little bit like you're trying to earn a sales reps time because you want to prove that you belong in the store. And so what are they doing? Well, it's actually pretty smart, even though I would say that's slightly manipulative, but what they're doing. What they're doing, it's smart is they know their brand has weight. And so they know kind of the feeling that they have with the brand and that they are so up there and sophisticated. So they make you assign yourself to feel like you deserve to be with the brand. How do they do that? By buying a bag. So you almost feel like, you know, when a sales rep does come up to you, Oh, I promise you, I have money. Like I am a buyer and then makes you want to buy more things. Yeah. And it's sad that we fall for that. Right. I think a lot of this, a lot, would you say that people will actually spend more mindfully if they understood sales? 100%. Talk to me about that. So when you learn sales, you understand the sales reps perspective. So you're a little bit more cognizant of the techniques that they're using. And so if it's something you actually want and the sales reps amazing makes you want to buy more stuff because you're like, okay, I respect the game. I appreciate it and I do want this. Let's do it. But when it's something that you don't really want, or maybe it's something you do want, but a sales rep is being rude to you or trying to make you feel less than you understand the tactics and the way that they're approaching the sale. And you're like, why would you do that? You know, I wanted this. I am a buyer, but the way that you're being dismissive or the way that you're just trying too hard turns me off. And so sales is all about like push and pull. And so a buyer's brain will literally turn off when you try to sell too hard or when you try to use these cringy, pushy, aggressive tactics because in their brain, it's like, if you have to try so hard, obviously what I'm getting sold is not that valuable because why would you have to try so hard? So in fact, the pull method actually works a little bit better, which is when sales reps kind of take a step back and they're like, well, I mean, I don't know if you need this right now. Like tell me about what you're going through and we can kind of figure it out together. Yeah. Where do you think confidence comes from? You're so confident. You talk about this idea of being able to turn it on, like, you know, just switch on. How do people access that? Because I think so many people today feel like a smaller version of themselves. We shrink, we get shy, we get scared. Like you said, just before you're about to say the amount, you kind of hesitate because you're scared about it. And it's not, you do believe in the product. You do care about what you're doing, but you also kind of care about the other person. Where does that confidence come from? Everybody thinks that you have confidence and then you do big things when it's flip flopped. You do big things. You put yourself out there. You're scared. And then you build confidence. Like I know I look like this girl that's super confident, all these things, whatever. But when I first started, that was literally so opposite from the case. Like I had so much anxiety, I could not talk to people or someone would ask me, you know, how's your day going? And I would stutter and think about it for the next like five to seven business days. Like I literally hated it. I was just insecure and I didn't do enough big things in order to have something to be confident about. So someone told me, you know, sales will make you confident. I got into sales. I got literally doors slammed in my face. Cops called on me, the neighborhood watch, like name it. But going through experiences like that and going through what I call the suck and coming out on the other side, you know, with monetary things to show, but also confidence, that kind of data points, those kinds of data points that you have where you can say, I deserve to be confident because I did this, this and this. I deserve to be confident because I got told no 10 times in a row and the 11th said yes. Now I'm more confident that every other person I talk to, if they say, no, that's fine. I'm going to go get somebody else to say yes. Yeah. It's doing hard things. For sure. Yeah. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Everyone always thinks you somehow feel confident in your mind and then you take action and it's completely the opposite way around. You're spot on. It's take action, do uncomfortable things, do hard things, do big things, do scary things. And then all of a sudden confidence comes to you. Right. And because you have evidence, you have proof. Exactly. You have a list of things. I did all these things and it's not the external achievement. It's the fact that you put yourself in that position, whether it was getting rejected 10 times, moving out your house, going out there and taking on a job you never did, being out of your comfort zone, like all of that builds confidence. But you know when someone's sitting there and going like, Shelby, I want to be better at sales. I get you, but like, I just don't know how to start. What would you say to that person who says, I don't know how to start? I would say you don't have to. You don't have to know how to start. You just have to do it. And by do it, I mean you need to learn everything that you possibly can. And again, good for you. It's all on social media. It's right on your phone. But the number two is start and know that you're going to suck. Like half of confidence is knowing that it's going to suck in the beginning. And you need to know that you are going to get rejected. You're going to mess up. But plot twist is if you do that enough time and if you get enough reps in, that's how you build true confidence. So it's not the whole fake it till you make it. But I mean, kind of. It's like you have to believe you are the best. And then with enough data, like you kind of just said, you can truly, truly know that you are the best when you can look back at your experience. Yeah. We found some questions on social media that we think would be good. So I want to hear your take on this. What's something people struggling with money think is smart, but actually keeps them broke? They're spending money on networking events. Talking about that. I should be pro networking, right? No. So I have a very kind of controversial, but specific take on networking. So I think, you know, majority of people that show up to random networking events, I'm talking the ones that are just random cocktail hours, random people in your city. A lot of the people that show up to those networking events are looking for people external to cling on to because they don't have anything to offer. So I want you instead of to focus all of your energy on networking because I used to be the same. What rooms can I get into? Who can help me with this? Like look into yourself first, build up your skills at first, figure out a way to provide real value to other people and become someone that other people want to network with. Like I was always the girl dying to be in group chats with people like you or people like my business partners or people like, you know, that I am currently in group chats with right now, I was dying to be in those. But you need to figure out a way to be someone that other people are dying to be in a group chat with. So instead of focusing too much on putting your energy out into how do I figure out these other people, put that energy into yourself. And when you truly have, you know, something going for you or you truly solve people's problems, the right people will reach out to you because people that are worth networking for don't spend every day at different cocktail hours just trying to help people for fun. It's just not reality. But that's different from specified networking, which is if you have a purpose of going to it, you know, if you're a real estate professional and you're going to a real estate event, amazing. If you are a closer and you're going to a closer event, amazing. A life coach going to a life coach event, amazing. But I think the general networking cocktail hours are just a waste of time, money and energy that you should be putting into yourself. Yeah. I love the idea that your reputation precedes you in the sense of, and I think people often get confused that you have to have some big brand for that. My friend started his content creator journey more recently. He has like 6,000 followers, but the video content he's creating is so high quality that people are introducing him to people because his level of research, his communication skills, it's only a matter of time before he gets to 100,000 followers in a million or whatever else it may be. But right now, I think people often think, oh yeah, but Shelby, I've got to have like a million followers for someone to notice me. It's like, no, you could have 5,000 followers, 6,000, maybe 10,000, but because of the content you're creating and the way you're communicating, people will be looking and be like, oh, you're the stylist that comes in front of mind. You're the coach that comes in front of mind. You're the car sales person who comes in front of mind. Exactly. You don't have to have millions of followers for someone to notice you. And I think that's a really important part as well. And I think a big thing too, you need to be what we call the pattern interrupt. So in sales, a pattern interrupt means someone that breaks the pattern because 99% of sales people sound the same. They sound like robots. So if you want a different result than every other sales person that gets denied, you need to do something different. So, AKA break the pattern of the cringy sales rep pitches that people hear. But in life, you need to break the pattern. You need to be different and do different things than everybody else in order to stand out. Like your friend who made the most high quality videos, he was probably a lot different than everybody else who's just putting mass amount of videos out there to where somebody recognized that. Absolutely. Yeah, he's really thought about it. It's very specific. And so people in that specific niche are paying attention to him, even though he's not got because he's an expert. Exactly. Exactly. He's actually good at what he's talking about. It's absolutely. Yeah. Okay. What's the biggest, this is another one. Okay. What's the biggest mindset difference between someone making $50,000 and someone making $500,000? A year or a month? That's a showbie question right there. Let's start with a year. I would say exactly that. I would say the $50,000 a month person thinks that they're on top of the world and that, you know, that's all there is to life. And I think the $500,000 a month person knows that you're uncapped. There is no cap on what you can do in this world. None. And I think that's the biggest thing that sales teaches you is you eat what you kill. There's no floor, right? That's also so freeing because there's no ceiling. Genuinely, if you want to make more money, you just talk to more people and close more deals. Like that should excite you. That should be like, oh my gosh, there's all of this money to make in the world and there's proof of so many people making so much money. Why not me? That was my biggest thing. I always like heard of these people on social media making so much money and I'm like, you make that amount of money. Like if you can do it, I can do it. And I think that blind level of optimism is what somebody making $500,000 a year or a month has because they stepped outside of the scope and the realm of reality. And they truly just said, I'm not playing by everybody else's rules. I'm doing my own thing or I'm doing my own thing on the side or I'm going to pull myself out of this because I know that I can do it. For example, if you're talking in years perspective, I think the $50,000 a year type of person just sees money as a side thing or they see, they are not the business. They are working for someone versus the $500,000 a year person. They know that they are the business and they know that whatever they do in this life, it will turn to gold because they are good. So that's why you need high income skills in order to be that person that you can step into anything and produce. And I think the truth is that high income skill matters even when you're an employee because if you have a high income skill, that person never wants to lose you and therefore they're going to keep investing in you and keep giving you promotions and raises because they know they can't live without you. So even if you're not an entrepreneur, if you're part of someone's team and you have a high income skill and you add lots of value to that place, people are never ever going to take a risk. I mean, you're an employer, I'm an employer. It's like, I don't want to lose my best people. I would never take that risk. Replacing people sucks. It's so hard. Yeah, when you find someone who's really amazing what they do. You want to pour into them. Exactly. Yeah, you want to invest in them. You want them to grow with you. You're excited about it just as you are in love in one sense where it's like, yeah, I want to see what we could achieve together. Exactly. And then you go back to the person who's making $50,000 a year and is completely fine with that. They just see it as a job and they won't go above and beyond versus the person that maybe their paycheck doesn't reflect $500,000 a year, but they believe that they are in a $500,000 a year opportunity if they act like it. And so when you go above and beyond, people notice that. So every single ounce of hard work that you put into yourself right now, maybe it might not benefit you now, but it will benefit you dividends in the future. Totally. It's just you have to put it in in order to get it out. Absolutely. Great answers. All right. If someone wants to go from making a hundred K to 300 K in one year. Specified the year. Yeah. What's the 30, 60, 90 day plan? From a hundred K to 300 K. Yeah. In one year. Are they working for someone or working for themselves? Let's do both examples. So let's do somebody's working for someone and then let's do somebody's working for someone who's working for someone. So I would say that you need to job hop. You're never going to have a $200,000 raise in three years. It's just not going to happen. So the way that you would do it is you would go to different employers and you would kind of pin them between each other. So the company that you're working for now versus another one, right? You go out to their competitor or somebody in a different niche and you show them the value that you provided for the other company because you have data points behind it. For example, I helped X company grow to X revenue in X amount of time. Given these tools, but I feel like I can go even farther given these right tools. Let me the ability in order to do it. I would job hop if you are in a company. I think that's very sound advice actually. For sure. Yeah. But if you are on your own, if you want to go from a hundred to 300, the very first thing is mindset because $300,000 a year, that's a completely different mindset than somebody making just a hundred. So you need to, I would say, be the best and get paid to be the best. That's how you're going to do it. But also look at scaling yourself. If you have your own business, create many means of you or hire employees, which is hard, going from a hundred to 300, trusting other people to do the quality work that you do, but you need to hire superstars, pay them very well. And the time that you get back from hiring other people and duplicating them, work on growing your business, growing different avenues of it. And then I would also say content plays into both of them. I think content can amplify anything you do. If you work in a job, you can make content around that to where other companies want to hire you because you now have value as distribution because of your content, because you're selling yourself through your content. And if you own your own business, I don't have to explain that content will help no matter what you are pushing in your content. Yeah, I think that's really sound advice for both of them. I think you're spot on that you're not going to suddenly catapult inside of an organization that much. And if you are running your own thing, it's what you said earlier as well. Sometimes you have to triple your output. Like you will have to find ways to, if you're trying to go from a hundred to 300K, that means you've got to look at how many people you've sold to, how many customers or clients you have. You're going to have to find a way of tripling your failure rate because that's going to get you that same success rate. That could mean more people. It could mean more hours yourself as well. Right. So like a good example is like you don't have to start a business in order to be on your own and do $300,000 a year. There are so many side hustle type jobs that you can do without taking a risk, starting your own business, pouring a ton of money into it, and also without posting content. What other examples of jobs are there in sales that you think are giving people opportunity to really take their finances into their control? So door-to-door sales is where I started out. And it's amazing. You will have the, you will walk out with the best sales skill set because you're in person, you're getting rejected to your face. It is more gritty. It is more rejection based because you are the first person they see and you're also closing the deal. You have to be outside and you know, 100 degree every single day. It's, you know, not the best for lifestyle wise, but if you're young, like a college person, I would definitely think about door-to-door sales. There's also insurance sales. I would say that's good if you want to recruit. They make a lot of their money from recruiting other people to do it. There's also med sales, tech sales, marketing agencies have sales teams. There's software sales. There's a bunch of different sales industry. So I would just urge people to think about like what their lifestyle is and what would be best according to your lifestyle. So there's, you know, the gritty in person, you know, grind sales like door-to-door and insurance, but then there's also the more corporate, which is like office job type sales where you work for a larger company. You have quotas, you have minimums, all these things, but then there's freelance sales, which is like setting and closing. And this is where you are your own closing business. And you can talk to someone for 30 minutes and they want to buy, you get a commission off of it. If people can make this much money in sales, why isn't everyone doing it? One, because it's a limiting belief that you have to do the right thing in life in order to have success. Like people brainwash you from a young age that you need to go to school for 16 years, you know, go to college, get, you know, a general education degree. Then you get into the workforce, which is a general job because you have general education. And then you're working a job because you have debt to pay off, let alone being, you know, maybe you don't even get to get a job or you might be replaced by AI soon. So a lot of people think that that's like the normal path, but I think people are kind of starting to get more keen to the idea of doing other things. But then I would also say it's mindset. Sales has taught me that 80% of people's mindsets just suck. They're very self-limiting. Like a lot of people won't even put themselves in the position to do something on their own because they're afraid that they're not going to be able to do it. And so that mindset itself is proof that you won't be able to do it. So that's when I say you have to change the mindset first before you actually do it. And then also rejection. People aren't used to getting told no nowadays. It's very instant gratification. If you want to look something up, you can have it on your phone right then. If you want to order something, it's at your door in two days. Sales is a game that you play over a long period of time because in the very beginning, you're putting so much hard work into it, but you're still building the skill set. So you might not see it reflected in your paychecks for a couple of days, maybe a week or two. But at some point, all of the work that you did in the beginning will compound results for you over time, but you have to go through that period of the suck. Yeah. What are the mindsets you're seeing that are holding women back, especially? They don't believe that they deserve to do something different. And that can get deep. And no one will come out and say, you know, I don't believe that I'm, you know, can do this. But it's on a more subconscious level where people do not believe that they could achieve something. Maybe it's because of what their friends tell them or what their boyfriend tells them. Or, you know, maybe you got fired from your last couple of jobs. Like you can focus on negative data points in order to pull a negative story. But what you need to do is you need to pull the positive data points, even if there's only a few, but focus on the positive data points of your life that pushes a positive story of, no, no, I do deserve this. And I deserve this because of all of the data points that I can look back at. So everything that happens to you in your life, if you're wanting more like tangible advice from this, everything that happens in your life, not just in sales, just life, you can pull a negative story from it or you can pull a positive story from it. Totally. Focus on the positive data points in order to believe a positive story. Yeah. Yeah. I always say, everyone can tell two stories of their life. For sure. Like I got all these opportunities, my life changed, I'm at the level of my life, like look at where it is now or at the same time and it's equally true. You could say, this person screwed me over, this person tried to sue me, this person, whatever it may be. For sure. And both are true, both happen. Oh, for sure. But it's like, which one am I going to focus on? And even some of the most, you know, horrific things that have happened in my life are very scary. I always think to myself right then and there, this is going to be a great story to tell my kids one day. Or this is going to be something great that I'm going to be able to talk about on a podcast or on stage. Yeah. You know, so everything that you go through, you have to believe that it is not happening to you, it's happening for you. And maybe it's a negative in the moment, but it could be a positive in the future. And this is not, you know, something big, like getting sued or getting broken up with. It could be you're driving on the freeway and you miss your exit. Yeah. You know, it's, oh, I miss my exit. I'm so stupid. I'm going to be late. People are going to hate me. I always do this. No, it's, hey, I miss my exit. Thank God, because maybe I would have gotten into a car crash or gotten pulled over. But because I missed that exit, now I'm just going to add on two more minutes to my time. I'd rather take two minutes of redirection than, you know, what could have happened? Babe, it's Jen. I'm so busy. I can't even type right now. I'm working on that big presentation for my new launch. I'm making it on Canva mobile, like you suggested. And it's making everything iconic. It's a bit noisy, babe. Mark is going off. Anyways, I'm going to ping the presentation to you now so you can see what I mean. Yeah, madame. Gotta go, hon. Thanks for introducing me to Canva. Love ya. So, we wanted to put your sales skills to the test in the room. Okay. So I'm going to ask you to sell a few things to me. And I'm also doing research for myself. So the first thing I'm going to ask you to sell to me is mine and my wife's tea. This is ours. She can grab it, the drink. And so I'd love for you to sell this to me so that we can learn how to sell it better. Okay. Try it for me. Oh, yeah. Okay. What do you think? It's very tasty. Okay. Why would you even want, what is this, an energy drink? It's a calming drink. Like it's a balancing drink. Okay. And what does it do for you? It helps you de-stress your mind. It helps you bring back your body into regulation. It helps calm you. Okay. When do you crack one of these open? When do you need that? I probably open it midday. Like probably like my midday pick me up or like around 3, 4 p.m. when you start hearing that slump. It's got enough caffeine, same caffeine in it as the amount of natural amount in tea. Okay. So it's not energy. It's not like 200 milligrams of caffeine. It's only like 24, 25. I saw somewhere, you know, tea reminds you of talking with your mom or something. Yeah. Tell me more about that. Yeah. So tea was, when I used to get back from school, my mom would sit me down and she'd pour me a cup of tea, but it would be like a hot cup of tea. Okay. And she'd ask me how my day was. And so like every day that was our ritual. She was super busy, but that was a moment that we sat down together and had that moment. Okay. So tomorrow comes around like 3, 4 when you have your little crash. If you don't have one of these, what are you doing? I'm like, well, it would be something unhealthy. Like this is only five, this is only, what is it? Zero, it's five calories and zero grams of sugar. Right. I would usually have reached for something sugary and put sugar into my body, which I try and stay off of refined sugar. Okay. And heavy sugars. And when you do that, what's the result? Less energy, less motivation. Like, you know, it's like you feel like you've been in the gym all week, but what's the point? Right. Because you're just like putting rubbish into your body, maybe more sugar spikes and then low moods and down points. So what does that like mean for you though? If you're not able to show up with the energy or with, you know, knowing that what you're putting in your body isn't necessarily the best, like what does the crash actually mean if you were to go through that tomorrow? I mean, in one sense, you could argue that it's like, it is whatever it is. But I think I really appreciate being alert all the time and being focused and making sure that my snacks are not unhealthy. Right. You don't want to live a life that just is whatever it is. You want to live a life where you're at your best, right? Yeah. So that's kind of what I'm getting at is it's not about, you know, this is an energy drink or, you know, an adaptogenic tea. It's about the result that it can have for you on a day to day basis. When someone like you, you need to be on, right? So my question to you is if you tomorrow could show up your best self for podcasts, for your work, for your clients, what would that be worth to you to show up as the best version of yourself? I mean, like, I could. Probably everything, right? Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm not asking for everything. I'm just asking for five bucks. There you go. That was really good. Thank you. I love how personal it was. Yeah. So it's, and I'm glad that we did that because I want a lot of people to understand selling something. The wrong thing to do would have been, okay, awesome, Jay. So this is obviously the can super pretty. I'm reading that it has 150 milligrams of this. It's manufactured here. It is the best quality drink that you could have right now by it. I didn't know what I was walking into in this context. I don't know anything about your day to day life. I don't know anything about what you would substitute if you didn't do this. And I didn't know, obviously this is going to give you energy, but it's what that energy does for you, which in your case prevents crashes when you're trying to show up as your best self. So you really need to step back and gather context and ask questions. That's literally all sales is. It's what I just did. It's just asking questions about what somebody actually wants and if it fits into it. And I knew exactly when it fit into it because you said, you know, I would crash and I don't want to crash when I'm trying to run like a high level lifestyle, right? When I'm running a business, having family, right? So that's what people buys. They don't buy what it is. They buy the transformation. So your job, couple of different steps is one, be the pattern interrupt, which is instead of getting straight to selling, just ask, have a conversation. And then it's figure out the leverage points, which I did that by asking you questions. Then it's provide value and provide a clear solution, which is this. And then it's also, you know, anchoring someone before you price drop. So what did I ask? I said, what would that be worth to you? It'd probably be worth everything, right? To show up as your best self. Well, I'm not asking for everything. I'm just asking for five bucks. And so it makes it a little bit more attainable. Yeah. It's such a good demonstration. Let's do that with something that I know less about. I want people to see that. Okay. So like maybe. You got a pen? Oh, yeah. Yeah. There you go. Okay. Someone's hopefully someone's not chewed on that. Not me. Not me. Is this the only pen you have around you? Do you want a nice one? Give me every pen that you have in this one. Can I go find the nice one? Yeah. We did it with a product that I know a lot about. Right. And that obviously you want, right? Yeah. Obviously you want this product, right? Yeah, exactly. No, no, no. But I think the way you, I still think what you did was brilliant. I'm just saying it would be good to. Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do it again. Yeah, let's do it again. Okay. Do you have any other pens in the room or is this it? That's it. Okay. Is that bad? Do you want a nicer one? This is fine. This is every pen though, right? There's no other hiding. No, no, no. Okay, awesome. Step number one, create a need. No, I'm kidding. Oh, yeah. But let's see. That's good. That's funny. Okay. Do you want paper? I don't want you to have to write what you said. No, no, no. This is fine. Want to play Tick-Tack-Toe? If you win, I'll then mow you $100. Okay. If you lose, nothing happens. And I just give you all your pens back. Okay. The only trick is, where's your pen? I don't have one. Well, I'm selling all of these pens for $5 each. I will let you choose. Basically, $5 entry fee in order to only have an upside in order to win $100. Which one would you like? The red or the white one? That's really good. Obviously, this is a joke, you guys, right? So it's obviously a joke, but what it is is it's another concept of a pattern interrupt. And sometimes when you're selling something, people expect you just to try to sell a pen when that's the whole trick. So the whole trick of is, and I'll show you a little bit of a more tangible way to sell a pen after this, but the trick with the time old sell me this pen is everybody wants you just to start selling the pen. All this pen is so amazing. It's all black monochrome, signature engraving right here. It never runs out of ink. It'll look nice on your desk. Nobody cares about your pen, right? Literally nobody cares. So what you would do is you would, one, break the pattern, be different. What I just did is obviously a little bit of a joke, but it is different. And then number two with this is I'm selling an experience. I'm like, hey, play me. The upside is I'll literally right now venmo you $100. But the entry fee I created in need by gathering all your pens even in the other room. The entry fee is $5. Do you want to play or not? Well, obviously someone would probably take a $5 to get $100. And then the other thing is too, like if you just create something that's clear, super simple, a lot of people try to overcomplicate the sales process. It's just problem solution. Your problem was, you know, you probably wanted to play, but you didn't have any pens. And my solution was giving you back one of your pens. So the right way to actually sell the pen though, if anybody ever asks someone that's watching, how do you sell the pen? It's a trick to see if you are a trained sales rep. So don't do this. This is just a joke, right? But what you would do is you would hold the pen and you'd be like, I mean, why would you even want a pen? Like what do you do for work? Yeah. What do you do for work? I have a podcast. I write books and I coach people. Okay, do you write books? Probably on a laptop though, right? Yeah, I have a laptop. So what would you even use a pen for? Yeah, barely use a pen, maybe randomly to sign checks, but like very rarely. Oh, to sign checks. Very rarely, because now it's docusigned. For sure, yeah. So take me through signing a check. Is that someone's paycheck or is that to pay for something? Maybe it's like to pay for something, but like so rare. I can't even remember the last time I did it. And it's always one of those things where it's like, you don't need a pen until you need a pen, right? Yeah, exactly, yeah. Or maybe I doodle while I'm on the phone. Yeah, okay. Sometimes I'm just like, you know, playing around. On the phone with someone where you're trying to like write down notes, a lot of conversation. I still like writing down notes. Yeah, by hand probably, yeah. Okay, so somebody calls you up and they give you amazing tangible advice for your podcast or your next book. And in that moment, you don't wanna go on your notes app because you're trying to like stay focused, stay concerned, right? You reach over for a pen. Kind of like how we just did it and this guy pops up. Yeah. It looks like this. Yeah, going that fast. How do you feel writing down million dollar advice with this pen? Probably not the best, right? Yeah, not great, cause I'm thinking someone's, someone in the office is chewing on it. Chewing on it, right? Do you wanna take down million dollar advice with a 50 cent Sharpie pen that's been chewed on? Probably not, right? But then this pen is on your table instead. You know, instead of that one reaching for it, maybe has gum on it, cause it's been in the bottom of a backpack. Instead, this pen always stays on your office. No matter what, even though you'll probably never use it cause everything's on DocuSign, but when you do need it, it'll be right there. It's not about the pen, it's about peace of mind. That when that one person does call you, you won't be frantic trying to search for another pen, it'll just be right there. And you can just write down all the advice. So I would sell, basically like your leverage point was, I don't need a pen, but I could, right? It's like, I don't really use, so I did the leverage of insurance. You know, it's like, you might not need one tomorrow, but when you do need one, you're gonna really need one. And you wanna have the peace of mind that it will be there. So what did I do? So I asked questions in order to understand context of what you do for work, why you would even want it. What the scenario would be if you had a pen that you didn't like versus a pen that you loved and just looked at it and felt super confident about writing, you know, that next book or writing somebody's advice down or, you know, signing someone's paycheck is a big deal as well. Hiring someone, first impressions matter. So you kind of extrapolate whatever you are selling from like the actual object, and you broaden it out into something that somebody actually cares about, which for you, it's peace of mind in order to be prepared at every point in time. What's impressive is that no point did you sell me the pen. No, none. Like at no point where you like, look at the color, look how it will make you, you didn't even try and sell me the prestige of it. Like you weren't like, oh, if you hold this pen, everyone's gonna think your fact, cause I don't care about that. Right, cause nobody cares. Because nobody cares. And it's so interesting because I think we're constantly trying to think we know what the other person wants. So like if someone like me walks into wherever, you're assuming I want to be certain things or if someone sees you walking and they assume that, oh well, Shelby's character profile must be this, this, and this. I don't know, like until I talk to you. There are so many times, and this is actually my biggest pet peeve when I'm getting sold, is somebody will look at you and make a stereotype out of it. It's like I walk into a car dealership and people think, I don't know what I'm talking about. They think that daddy's just gonna swipe, I'm gonna use my dad's credit card to buy some vehicle or they can charge me a bunch because I know nothing about the sales process. When in reality, if a sales rep, instead of making assumptions, just stopped and just asked. You would actually get to know people and then you can help them through simple problem and solution. That's why everybody thinks sales is manipulation and trying to push things on people. It's not, it's literally just taking a step back, asking questions, getting to know somebody. And if it works, then you can plug and play your solution and empower them in order to make a decision that will genuinely change their life. When you're actually in practice with it, like when you see it, like what you were just doing, you're like, yeah, no point did I feel forced. And no point did I feel like, and if I had said to you, no, I never use a pen, I don't need it at all, you probably would have like, I would be like, okay, awesome, you're not a qualified by then, right? Yeah, great, exactly, yeah. And I think that's partly it as well, where it's like, yeah, if I would have closed the conversation, whereas I was actually thinking. I mean, I probably rolled that objection a couple of times. Yeah, yeah, I guess it. Well, when somebody gives you like, straight off the bat, not interested, what they're doing is it's called a brush off objection. It's not a true objection. What do you mean you're not interested? You haven't even like seen what we have to offer. So it's, I wouldn't say that, but that's what I'm thinking, right? Obviously they're not interested, but they're not interested in the time spent with you rather than what you have to offer. So when they brush you off, you brush it right back off. No, for sure, I'll just take two seconds out of your day to talk about XYZ. You literally just keep going. And if somebody is a qualified buyer, they will take the time to actually talk to you and you can roll that objection into more time, which then you can sell. Can I have a drink of that one? Of course, yeah, of course you can. Do you like that flavor? I do, I like that. Would you like another flavor? I think it's a blue one that you gave me. Yeah, the peach one or... I thought it was blue, was it blueberry? Oh no, we don't have any blueberry anymore. We have peach tropical... I don't think it was blueberry, it was like some berry. It was a raspberry or cherry lime? It was raspberry, I think. Raspberry, should we get you that one? I think this will be good, yeah. Okay, fine, if you want that one, I can get you that one. But they're really good. Thank you, you're the best. Do they not have caffeine in them? They do have caffeine with the same amount of cup of tea. So there is caffeine and it's a natural amount. That's a decaf one though. You want one with caffeine in it? Yeah. So we need to get you the raspberry one. That's the one that has caffeine in it. Okay, okay. You're like, I need some decaf. I'm like, oh, never mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No purpose. We have caffeine and decaf ones. Okay, okay, that's cool. All right, so we're gonna test you on the objections. You gotta know them. Okay, the first one is it's too expensive. So a lot of people think that, you know, you're comparing a price versus nothing, right? But the price is what you pay today. The cost is what you pay years down the line when you don't solve the issue. So you said your business is bleeding $15,000 a month revenue, right? So you don't just like walk away and just, you know, pay nothing. It's actually comparing, you know, a $5,000 solution to your problem versus a cost of, you know, 60 grand down the line over a couple of months. So which one are you more comfortable paying the price or the cost? Right, yeah. You just reframe it. Yeah, yeah, and it is good because half the time that person hasn't done that reframe either. All right, I need some time to think about it. Mm-hmm. Do you need quantity of time or quality of time? Quality, it's like I really need to like digest what you've told me to do. I'm glad you said that. A lot of people think they just need quantity of time, which is, you know, a couple of days, weeks, whatever. But few people actually understand, which I'm glad you do, that you need quality time, which is the quality of information that's in front of you, but also quality time to sit down and make a well thought out decision, right? I'm literally the same way, but like I said, we have 20 minutes left of intentional time on this call. You're busy. I know as soon as you shut this laptop off, it's like you got kids, you gotta run the business, all that things. So we have 20 minutes left of intentional time, and I've got all of the information right here in front of us in order to make a well decision. I need to check with my wife. And you will. You're either gonna come to her though with a problem or a solution. You know, a problem of, hey honey, I really wanna do this, but I don't know if I should and da-da-da-da, or hey honey, I found somebody that can really help me solve my problem that I've been wanting, I really trust it, and I thank you for your support. Which one do you think would go over better with your wife? Probably the solution, right? Also another one I love for that, and I've never talked about this either, is the flip-flop. So for example, if somebody tells me, I need to talk to my husband or my wife, I'll just be like, no problem, can I challenge that? Yeah, okay, awesome. So if instead of it being me and you talking, what if it was me and your wife? And she came to me and she's saying, I'm going through this, this, and that, and I finally found someone that I think can solve my problem, and I really wanna do it, but I wanna check with my husband first. Would you support her in making that decision? You probably would, right? So is it fair to say that she'd probably support you in the same way that you support her? Right. And this works really well if you're talking to a woman, if you, instead of saying the husband thing, cause she'll be like, why him to talk to me? It works really well if you flip it and you're like, let's say it's your best friend, and she's sitting here going through this, going through the same thoughts, would you tell her to do it? Probably would, right? Well, is it fair to say other people would probably tell you to do it too? So putting people kind of outside of themselves and looking at the situation from an unbiased, third party perspective and being like, what would you tell that person to do right now? Because you're saying to me that you really wanna do it, you'd probably say to do it, right? Let's do it, so. Yeah. I gave you two on that one. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it. And now's not a good time. For to talk or to make a decision about something? I've just got so much going on, like I've got family stuff, I'm like exhausted, I just don't think that was a good time. Can I challenge that? I don't know, I just, I don't know if I have the bandwidth for it right now. No, for sure. And I'll just make it easier for you because the bandwidth to think about things over a long period of time by yourself, it just, that's how stress gets created, right? So I'll just clear that up for you. So when you say you don't have the time to think about it and to process the bandwidth, a lot of people think that they need to be in a situation where they have every single ounce of intentional time. But in fact, the best decisions are made in the gray area. Some of the best companies were started in the recession. It's because while everybody else is moving forward, you need to be the person that maybe takes a step back. But while everybody else is sleeping, you need to be the person that makes a decision in order to get better. So what do you wanna be right now? Someone that just follows along with what everybody else is doing or someone that actually moves forward when everybody else is kind of just moving along? Because are you gonna wait for life to happen to you or are you gonna make your life happen for you right now? And sometimes people may even take them and be like, I still need time, but you've helped them think about it in a different way. So I always start every objection with I hear you, can I challenge that thought? Because it allows you to separate the objection from you. I'm not saying can I challenge you. You know, it's not me versus you. It's like, hey, can I challenge that thinking for a second? And it's like a lot of people think this, but it's actually this will help you get one step closer to your goal. Yeah, I love that. These were some other things that came in from social of people, of things they're struggling with. So how should this, we're moving away from the objections. How should someone approach a conversation to ask for a raise? So step number one is you have to have some sort of experience behind you and some sort of numbers in order to deserve a raise. You can't just get hired the first day and ask for a raise or you can't be the worst employee ever and ask for a raise. So you have to have a reason to ask for a raise. So that means be the best at your job, right? Have some sort of reason in order to ask for a raise. Then when you ask for a raise, have other competitors' data in order to compare to. So for example, if I want to ask for a raise from you, I would go to one of your competitors and say, hey, I've been working for Jay Shetty for a while. We've done X amount of revenue with him. What is the offer that you have for me? Then I would take it back to you and I would say, hey Jay, I love working for you and I'm really sold on the long game with you. Like I want to grow with this company and I want to stay here, but I need to make it make sense for me just on a monetary standpoint because I have other competitors such as this guy and this guy offering me a little bit more. So I want to stay with you. That's why I want to have this conversation be grounded with it, but I just need it to make a little bit more sense on the financial side in order to grow with you long term. So even if you don't believe that you're going to be with this company long term, you need to sell the long game and sell the vision to your employer because like you said, that's the leverage point that an employer has is they want to invest in people for the long game. So, hey, I want to be here for a long time, but in order for me to put all of my resources here, I need a little bit back because other people are recognizing my value and I'm not saying you don't, but I need it to make it make a little bit more sense for me. What about if someone's going to interview with a company, what are the top three things they need to show? Numbers, what you've done for the company. I would say audit what you can do better and have a mathematical easy game plan way to show what you can do with the company given the raise. So you can't just ask for a raise just because you deserve it. Corporate America does not like entitlement, right? But people will pay you if they think there's an upside. So this is creating value, right? It's, hey, if you pay me $20,000 more, I'm going to generate $800,000 a year more for the company and I'm willing to do this, this and this for it. It's just like in sales, you can't drop the price when negotiating with someone for no reason, right? You need to actually have a reason and justify a price drop in order to not sound salesy, right? So data and then also like have a clear game plan and you want to make it super easy for someone to say yes to you and say, hey, if I give this girl a promotion, this is exactly what we're going to get for her. Okay, awesome, let's do it. Yeah, how do you deal with it when you don't get what you want? Like what's the right response? Never burn the bridge. That's a very good question that not a lot of people talk about. You never burn the bridge because a no isn't a no forever. It could be just maybe later. It could be, you know, a little bit of insight to where you need to improve a couple of things and then re-ask again when you have more leverage there. So just know that a no isn't forever. It's just not right now. Yeah, I think it comes back to what we've been talking about this whole conversation where it's like when you deal with rejection badly, it starts to affect everything because then you're like, you know, it could go in multiple ways. You're like shrinking yourself, your mood's a bit dull. You're not walking in with that smile and with that confidence that you had and all of a sudden it's affecting everything. Yeah, for sure. And it's crazy how quickly we kind of shut the door on ourselves. What about if you're going to interview for a job for the first time? So what are interviewers looking for when you're interviewing for a job? Right, so they're looking for people that are bought in on the longterm vision exactly, but also they're looking for people that ask really good questions, that show that you kind of know what you're doing through the questions that you ask. So for example, if you want to become a remote closer and you get on an interview with someone and they're like, so what made you apply? And you're like, I just really want to make more money. I just want sales experience. What is that? That's all about me. Nobody cares about what you want, right? They care about what you can do for them in the context of the situation. So it's, you know, instead of, oh, I really want to make money, blah, blah, blah. Hey, I've been following X Creator, X Mentor for so long. I have this sales background and I've been closing for other offers, right? But I would love to close for her offer because I have true conviction in what she's selling and I want to help you guys grow your business. So it's all about making the game plan clear but also using the leverage points of the other person, not yourself. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think the amount of people that interview these days and they don't have that. It's entitlement. It's, yeah, the answer is just, it shocks you sometimes. You're like, like, I've interviewed people and they've said things to me like, yeah, I just didn't like what I was doing. Right, and it's like. Yeah, I'm like, cool, that's fair. Like, yeah, I get it. I've not liked certain jobs that I have but like you don't want to be here. You want to come off as someone that is ready to do the most, ready to go above and beyond and doesn't just see it as a position. Because from an employer's perspective, we don't want someone who just wants to show up and do the bare minimum. We want someone who sees the value so much in themselves and takes pride in their work and is bought in on the long-term vision. So if you embody that, you should be good to go for an interview. And asking questions that relate to the business. What's your guys' close rate? What's your guys' lead flow like? Tell me about the offer. When you make the interviewer, sell themselves on why you should work for them, you want that and that sales. It's taking a step back and saying, well, I mean, I'm interviewing for a few positions but I just wanted to know a little bit more about how you guys do this, what your process is like, what it would look like if I did get hired, what your salary is like and then I can come back to you with a decision. Yeah, and I think there's a lot of test of your worth too. Like for example, if you're gonna be confident enough to say, I have got these offers and I'm doing that, you better back it up because that person may also just go, yeah, good for you. Like we don't need you either. And I feel like sometimes if it's all a story, then it doesn't always play well. Like I find like even like, I do a lot of corporate coaching work. That's where most of our coaching is in me working with larger organizations. And I have, there's a few experiences about it. The first time I had an experience, when I first began, this was like maybe, I don't know, like 10 years ago, maybe even 12 years ago, before the brand and so maybe even longer. And I remember being in an office and I asked all the questions and before I was about to give my solution to their problem, I realized that my solution did solve their problem. And so I remember just going, thanks guys, yeah, I literally just went like, all right, great, thank you. And I walked down and I was like, thank you so much. I was like, I just want to be honest with you. I don't think I have what you need, but really grateful. And I hope we can keep this conversation open. Fast forward five years from that point, I went back and started a really great contract to this client because they could see the honesty too. Like I was happy to be like, guys, you know what, actually I don't have anything you need, but I will come back. Exactly. And that's ethical sales because you can sell someone and then walk away from the conversation and both of you guys don't feel good about it. And that doesn't do any good at all. So it's like when you sell someone or when you apply for an interview and you are really trying to sell yourself, do you genuinely believe that you can provide this business value? Because that doesn't just come off in the words that you say that comes off in your energy. And I'm sure you could feel like when you kind of felt like, oh, I might not be ready for this right now, your energy was probably like, oh, wait, I don't know what I got myself into. But that's why you really need to build the data points in order to have conviction in yourself or whatever you're selling, in order to show up that way and like energetically be like, I'm here, I deserve this. Let's go, cancel all the other interviews because I'm your person. And until then, I like how you just kept the bridge open. You didn't burn it. And it worked out. And I've had that with so many things that we're doing right now where I got rejected from something seven years ago and this year it will become one of the most exciting parts of our business. And it's like, there's just seven years of relearning, patience, figuring it out, developing new skills. And I just think that long game is so healthy for everyone to always play because your current employer may write your reference one day. Your current employer maybe end up being one of your biggest clients one day. Like you just have no idea. Like I worked at a company called Accenture and Accenture was the place that invited me back to do so many keynotes when my career took off. But if I hadn't had a good relationship with them or left some good terms to your point of burning again, well then that wouldn't have been the case. Exactly. And I feel like there's too much short-sightedness now because we think there's lots of opportunities at the top, everyone knows each other. Exactly. But I think what you're saying is exactly what someone listening should take away from it, which is it's not a yes or a no, it's a yes or a lesson. And so sometimes the lessons are more valuable than if you got that contract or you got that client years ago because the lesson taught you to never walk into a situation like that again. And so sometimes that lesson can be way more valuable than getting what you want in the moment. Okay, seven stops to write this best man's speech. Hi, I'm Liam. And I've got nothing. Stop funny. Funny's good. I beat her. He'd never forgive me. What about friendship is a journey? Crane's. Come on. That's it. In the next episode of the 10 year five, Dan had the bright idea of cracking the best best man's speech on the train. You can. Couple more of these before we go to the final five. This one's great. What's the right way to talk about your strengths without overselling or apologizing? So I like to sprinkle in, you can call them testimonials or like subtle ways to flex, right? I subtly threw it in there, but then extrapolated a lesson from it that pertains to the other person because people don't care about your flex. They care about what your flex can do for them. So you can use it, but use it as a lesson in order to provide value to somebody else. Ego just always is such a turn off. Like I don't know, I generally just, I struggle so much when someone I feel is egotistical. And the way I think about the difference between confidence and ego is evidence and reflection. So it's like, if someone can give me evidence and they can reflect on that evidence to prove that it's real experience, now it doesn't feel like a name drop. It doesn't feel like a number drop, which just feels like it's a bit distasteful. I hate when people name drop. It's my least favorite thing. When somebody name drops or says, you know, all these different numbers, it is a literal indicator that they probably don't have the skills in order to do what I need them to do. Because they feel like they have to name drop or they feel like they have to show their numbers. I would also challenge that though, because it is a very fine line with when you're new to a space, there's a lot of people that might not know who you are. So sometimes, the numbers that you've done for a company or your experience will speak volumes. And so nobody's gonna sell yourself like you will. So sometimes it's a fine line of not having ego, but it's also a line of like being loud about your accomplishments when they are valid and like shouting it from the rooftops because you deserved it if you worked for it. But it is a very fine line. Yeah, which sales call or sales deal challenged you the most? Oh, that's a great question. Okay, so I was talking to a gay guy, okay? Love talking to gay guys. So fun, like it was very girls, girl vibe energy. He was awesome, okay? He keeps giving me the spouse objection. I keep rolling it, blah, blah, blah. Keeps giving me the spouse objection. I'm like, okay, fine, we keep rolling it. Then his spouse walks in the frame, sits down, I'm talking to spouse and spouse again, okay? So I'm like, okay, awesome. Now I know the other spouse is the decision maker. Kind of turn the attention of the sale towards him because I know the decision lies in his hands, right? That's what you need to do. And then I'm talking to him. He goes, I need to talk to my husband. So I look at this guy and I'm like, you brat, I thought you, you know, I thought it was him, not you. Like we could have had this done a long time ago. Like what's the issue? And so I, you know, direct to him, he says I need to talk to my husband. I redirect to him. He goes, no, I really need to talk to my husband. He's not here right now. And I go, is there three of you? No. And it was a threple. No. It was a gay threple. But let me tell you, the way that I closed this deal, I sincere closed them and I go, you guys, this is one for the books. I was like, I've never been in this situation. And you guys are going to use someone, probably the next person that comes up, you're going to have to buy something at some point because you do have some issues. I want that person to be me. I've never sold a threple before in my life. Like I would die to be able to go tell my boss and my coworkers that I just had this experience. Would you guys please allow me just the glory of having my first threple sale. And they still send me Christmas cards to this day. I love that. It's kind of a funny sale, but it was just, I was so backwards, I was mad at them because I was like, I thought you were the decision maker, but it's you, but it's you, but it's you. Wait, they're not here with us, aren't they? That's incredible, that's wild. It was pretty crazy. I was actually speechless. So you're pretty much prepared, like because obviously that's something you'd never be careful, you're pretty much prepared for any direction. It can go in there. You're training people, you're training them in sales training for every scenario possible that's. Yeah, so you have to train like things are gonna go wrong. You have to train for payments link, payment links not working. You have to train for your zoom maybe crashing. You have to train for different objections, different scenarios if they need to call their bank, like different things you just need to preempt them rather than waiting for some monstrosity to happen. And then you attack it then in there. Like you always need to preempt every sort of objection. And so then the follow up question is probably like, how do you preempt objections? Well, you kind of get key indicators from someone you're talking about. So if I'm talking to a girl, we'll call her Stacy. And Stacy's wearing like a fat rock on her finger. I know Stacy's married, right? So later on into the call, she might give me the spouse objection or she might be saying words like, we, when we did this, us. Okay, there's probably someone else in the picture that's not on the call. I might ask Stacy, like, have you ever signed up for something like this in the past? And if she did, okay, were you the one that made the decision or is there anyone else in the picture for that? If there is anyone else in the picture, you gotta get them on the call. But if not, easy, you just preempted the objection. So you always plan for things. And that's just, that's how a well funneled sale works. Everybody thinks that sales is overcoming every objection in the book 10 times over with every client and it's not. It's just creating a trusted buying atmosphere and true rapport with someone and just a good energy around the sale that makes it so easy for someone to say yes. Yeah. Why do you think we're all so like ready to save up for a month to buy a bag but struggle to invest in ourselves? Right, it's because you're worried about what everybody else thinks. You're shifting perception from how do I feel about myself to how do other people feel about me? Because buying a bag, I mean, if you wanna buy a bag, you can do that, right? Like if it makes you feel good, like I love buying designer, like if it makes you feel good. But buying it just for other people when you have other priorities is where it becomes an issue. Like I never bought designer until maybe like a year ago. Even though I could, it's just I had so many other things I wanted to check off. I wanted to do rental properties, networking events, hire mentors, move. There were so many other things that mattered to me more than just worrying about other people's perceptions. Because nobody's really thinking about you as much as you think. There's a metaphor, it's called like the invisible guest at a wedding. Like you show up to a wedding and you want your hair to be perfect. You're worried about what dress to wear. You're worried about the conversations that you're having with people when everybody's thinking that. And you'll probably never see a lot of these people again. So you're so in your head, but so is everybody else. And so when somebody else's perception, you are just the invisible wedding guest. They won't remember you. So why worry about if every single word is gonna be perfect? And you can carry that into everything. In sales, nobody knows what you're supposed to say. They don't know your script. If you mess up, you just roll with it, you keep going. Like this podcast, I don't wanna be perfect. If I was perfect, I would be AI. And I wouldn't be relatable to people. So just know that, you know, some sort of respect of I don't have to be perfect. In fact, it's better if I'm not perfect. That is what makes you human. And that is what makes your story so amazing to inspire other people. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And also I just feel like, I guess what I was getting at was this idea of, we don't even know we're being sold by most the people that are selling to us. Like they're just setting life choices we feel we made independently, but we were all sold on what it meant. And it's like, but when it comes to investing in ourselves, building our skills, learning, it's almost like we're scared to part with our hard-earned money because it feels in some way like we're being sold to. Well, investing into yourself is one of the most freeing things that you can do. If it's something that will give you an ROI. There's obviously a lot of things that you probably shouldn't invest into. But if you have a clear goal, you should feel super confident in investing in yourself. If it qualifies for ROI, return on investment. If you can be super clear about, if I put this amount of money in, what will I get out and what doors will that unlock for me? If you can feel good about that give and take, then you should make the decision for yourself. And I think the tables are kind of turning in a lot of ways with younger people because I think a lot of people love investing in themselves. They love buying an outfit to wear to an interview because it makes them feel a little bit more confident. Like I think we're kind of shifting away from, the stigma around, oh, you shouldn't spend money on yourself, right? I think we're kind of shifting away from that. So I'm very happy for that era. Yeah, absolutely. Shelby, you're awesome. This is so much fun. I learned so much. I think my audience learned so much. And I know like you just said, you just recorded a six hour sales training for free for YouTube. So I'm excited for people to go subscribe to your channels, follow you on Instagram, on YouTube, everywhere else. We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These have to be answered in one word for one sentence maximum. Okay. So Shelby, this is your final five. Question number one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? To go as fast as possible. Never slow down. I like that. No one's ever said that before. I can't elaborate. You can't go on. I like you, I like you. Everybody always says, you know, take it slow. You have time. You deserve a break. Like just chill. When in reality, you don't. You literally have no time. There is urgency. You need to use every single waking moment to strategize what you want out of this life. And then as soon as you're clear on it, work yourself backwards. And the cool thing is when you're clear on your goal, that urgency does kick in. If you're like, I don't have the urgency. When you know exactly what you want, the urgency kicks in. Cause you're like, well, how fast can I get there? And don't go with other people's timelines. Just because some people have what you want by 45, doesn't mean you have to wait till you're 45 to have it. You can literally give it to yourself now. If you just work really hard and go fast. Yeah, well said. Yeah, I feel like that idea of moving fast, you will break things. But if you didn't move fast, you wouldn't have had the progress and the growth. And I can relate to that. I was 28 when I started all of this and we moved extremely fast in the last 10 years. And when you're doing that, certain things get, yeah, it's chaotic. It's messy, but you learn as you go. That's the only way to do it. Absolutely, and I think if we tried to go any slower, we wouldn't exist. Exactly, yeah. We wouldn't be around, yeah. I love that. I think the same for myself. In college, everybody told me to slow down or why are you doing this and that? Like I got an accelerated master's degree and an honors finance degree, which don't use either of those. But again, like every single ounce of hard work that you put into yourself never goes to waste, right? I learned work ethic and whatever. But every summer that I was doing that, I was knocking doors, selling pest control in Minnesota heat to strangers. So it's like I was going so fast. I never had a second that I was just bored. And maybe that comes from trauma or whatever, but I think that also just builds some sort of work ethic where you're like, there's so much urgency. Like I need to go. Like there is nobody else that's going to save me right now. Nobody's gonna come in and build your life for you. You need to go. And everybody in your life is gonna tell you, slow down, take a break. Oh, you're doing so good. Why don't you just be happy here? It's because your speed and your growth makes their lack of growth and lack of speed feel inferior. That's the only thing it means. And you're making them feel uncomfortable because of how much you're doing in such a short amount of time. So you need to be able to filter out like what other people are saying about you and why they're saying that. Take it for face value. You don't need to attack it, but just know if you have goals and priorities, why have it take 10 years? If you could have it take two. Literally why? You might as well do it now. And especially if like a woman's watching this that doesn't have kids yet, you need to go now. Your day is all about you. You know, if you don't have other kids, other people in your life to tend to, you have so much free time that you can put into yourself and go as fast as possible and speed run it. Because as soon as like if you want to grow a family one day, you've got a lot of other stuff to do. And you're probably going to be like, damn, why didn't I do all this side hustle things or extra learning on the side when I had the free time to do so? So it's a very finite amount of time where you can go fast and you need to take advantage of it. Absolutely. Wow. That was very motivational. Thank you. You're like, what am I going to do tonight? This is like amazing. I'm not even a woman. And that was like, I got me right there. I mean for men and women, I know you were, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. My mentor who, I forget how old he is now, but he was like, I was... That's not good. That's not good. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was what, when I was 28, he was like 55. So I'm 10 years old. So he's like 65. And he's always told me, he was like, Jay, before you have kids, you can move 200%. For sure. Put your foot down on the pedal, like do everything. For sure. He was absolutely right. Like he was absolutely right. Like it was just for the past 10 years, I've had my foot down on the gas. And I don't regret it second I met it. It's been the best thing I've ever said. You built a foundation. Well, you built more than just a foundation, but you built it. And so now like when you are able to have kids, you can like enjoy that and be a little bit more present and not have to work out of survival. Yeah. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Finish your master's program. Did you finish it? Yeah. I got a master's degree by 22. What was your master's in? Business. Wow. Yeah. So it was in business development, but it didn't really do much. We had a teacher, it was like you have four different types of teachers for the four different types of business. One of them was sales and negotiation. And I was in door-to-door sales, like making a ton of money, like loved it. And this professor was teaching the most menial, like kindergarten level sales tactics. And I'm like, this is what people are teaching you. Like I think there's something to be said when you are someone that is in a situation, whether that be a job or school or a program, and you kind of look around and you don't feel like you belong, but in a good way. I think it's good to notice that, acknowledge it. And like if you still want to finish it, just to be able to say you did, like I think that's important. But it's also like don't follow that path then. If you know that you're better than everybody else around you in a non-egotistical way, but you just know you're special, you know you're destined for more than what you're doing right now, that that's okay. And I think a lot of the people when they told me, just do things the normal way, why are you trying so hard? It's like those people now are in a position where they're asking me for advice. And I'm like, well, there's not really much advice to give because we both started off at the same exact playing field. It's just some people go really frickin' fast and try a bunch of different things out. And not everything worked out. And I had to sacrifice nights, I had to sacrifice friendships, I had to sacrifice going out or whatever. But it's worth it. So yeah, I wouldn't have finished my master's program if I know what I know now, but I mean, glad I did it. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Question number four, can everyone be good at sales or are certain people just not meant for it? Everybody thinks you need to be extroverted in order to be good at sales and that's actually false. And I'm not saying introverts are better than extroverts even though a lot of introverts do do well in sales because you can build that empathy. But it all comes down to internal motivation of I will do what I need to do right now, even if nobody's watching, which means on a sales call, people are going to tell you no. Are you gonna sit there and roll a couple objections with them? Are you gonna sit there and even though it's a little uncomfy, are you gonna do what you need to do in order to move the conversation forward? Or at the end of your day, are you satisfied? Or are you gonna send out some follow-up emails? Are you gonna text a couple clients from the day before to make sure you pick up every single deal that you possibly can? And those people, I would boil it down into one word and that's hunger. You need to be hungry. Like you need to be maniacal in your work ethic and gritty, that's who succeeds in sales, is who wants it the most and who does the most in order to get it. What do people do when they just feel lazy, stuck? Maybe they've just wasted a bit of time and they've kind of developed bad habits. I always ask her, what's your morning routine? What are you doing today? What did you do before? Did you stop doing the things outside of your sales job that made you so great to where you got a little too cocky to where you thought to yourself, I don't need to show up to these trainings. I could skip a workout if I need. I don't need to get a little bit of extra advice about this. I don't need to rewatch my sales calls because I close everyone, but money is a lagging indicator. So if you stop doing the things that got you to be so great, it might not affect you that day, but it'll affect you in two months. And then you'll wake up one day and be like, where did it all go? Well, because two months ago, you stopped doing the things that made you great in the first place. So sales is all about being the best, yes, but staying at the top is a big stressor as well because you have to keep up with that level of pressure where everybody's looking at you and saying, you're the best closer on our team. Like what's your secrets, blah, blah, blah, but also being humble enough to know that you could go down the line at any point in time. So you need to keep doing the things that got you there. Yeah, good advice, good advice. Fifth and final question we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. Shelby, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? The law that you have to use the cards that you were dealt. A lot of the times I see women specifically feel bad about an unfair advantage that they've been dealt. Like everybody has a deck of cards, right? And maybe one of your cards is you have family money. Like you've got daddy's money, daddy did very well for himself and you are financially set. Okay, use that card and don't feel bad about it. Maybe one of your cards is you're really good at talking to people. Don't try to humble yourself by doing something outside of your skill set. Take that unfair advantage and use it. Or maybe you're gorgeous. Go model, go put yourself in front of a camera and go viral, use every single unfair advantage and don't ever feel bad about doing so. So the law would be, I guess, just using all of the cards that you were dealt and not faking humility in order to play it fair. You don't have to play fair. Nobody else is playing fair. So do what you can to get ahead with the cards that you were dealt. Yeah, well said. Yeah, I think there's so many of us that totally do the opposite. Yeah, absolutely right. Well, I see a lot like, and I think it's cool too though on one hand cause it's like, oh, you have family money but you wanna go make a name for yourself in a completely different facet. Like great. But also it's like, a lot of people have so many advantages in their book and they don't realize that they have them. You know, and it's like, you do, you're just not focusing on it. Or you're focusing on what's in somebody else's deck and you're not looking at yours. And you're not doing things in order to get more cards in your deck. Again, building these skills, building experience for yourself in order to have more cards that you can be dealt. So I think a lot of people just don't play the game of life to the full advantage that they could. Yeah, well said. Shelby, thank you so much. This is awesome. Your advice, your insight, your motivation and inspiration is contagious. Thank you. And I can't wait to see so many more people come to your work to be able to learn from you, to get a sell better, to negotiate better, to persuade better, get the raise they deserve, make the money they deserve and really create abundance in the world where more people are living a more full life. So thank you so much. I'm all for it. Yeah, thank you so much. This is awesome. Thank you. If you loved this episode, you'll love my conversation with Dr. Joe Dispenza on why stress and overthinking negatively impacts your brain and heart and how to change your habits that are on autopilot. Listen to it right now. How many times do we have to forget until we stop forgetting and start remembering? That's the moment of change. I don't care how many times you fell off the bicycle if you ride the bicycle now, you ride the bike. Travis Perkins Stratford has now moved to Latenstone. We've got everything from timber, bricks and blocks to loads of tools, plants and equipment for hire along with benchmarks, kitchens and joinery. We keep all your essentials in stock, delivered to site and upgrade trade deals too. Your new Travis Perkins branch is packed with even more products, more space and even better service. So for all your building materials, hire requirements and kitchen needs, simply head to Travis Perkins and benchmarks on Joseph Ray Road, Latenstone. 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