Limited Resources 842 - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Set Primer

What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of Limited Resources. This episode number 842. My name is Marshall. I'm one of your limited resources and joining me on the line all the way from Denver, Colorado, is Louis Scott Vargas. Louis, you ready to dive into the sewers as it were? Sure, we're going to talk Ninja Turtles today. We're going to talk about the Limited Qualifier on Arena last week and we're going to see where we stand with this set, I suppose. Yeah, what we've ultimately decided on doing for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is rather than do the full card by card review that we would normally do, we're going to do a set primer. This is something that is meant to give you the broad strokes on this set to try to get you ready for it. I'll be honest, we're skeptical of this set. It really does look a lot like the Spider-Man set, which we more or less bailed on after one episode and we did that for reasons that were personal to us. We were not interested in it and didn't feel like forcing ourselves to play a set that just didn't really look like it was fully fleshed out for Limited. We also followed our listener base who also did not seem interested in Spider-Man and that felt a little risky at the time, but it ended up being the right play because if we would have spent three or four weeks on Spider-Man, I don't think it really would have hit much of an audience and we certainly wouldn't have enjoyed it either. At that time though, Wizards kind of pulled the ripcord and put Final Fantasy back on Arena unscheduled and so we weren't really done with Final Fantasy at that point and it was arguably the best set of the year. That seemed fine, but then looking at the set for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, it has many of the same hallmarks that the Spider-Man set has and that it's smaller. There's only five archetypes. It has that pick two element to it and there's a lot of legendary creatures all the way down to common and I'm going, hmm, this is really feeling similar to that. The thing that we, and I mentioned this by the way at the beginning of the year that we're trying to get our head around with seven sets full, you know, sets coming out in 2026 is where are the limited eyes focused? You know, when I log into Arena, there's usually one main set that's out and then a few other things, flashback drafts or something like that. And so we're always trying to sync up with where our audience is at with where their eyes are focused and right now, is it going to be two months of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Or are we going to kind of play it for a little while and then maybe we'll focus on Cube for a while or maybe they'll bring back Avatar Final Fantasy or something that we end up doing? It's really hard to predict right now. So we're going to kind of take the middle route and do a primer set today. And again, this is an attempt to get you ready for the format from a broad strokes perspective rather than a card by card. So that is the plan for the show. Before we get into it, I want to say thank you to everybody who supports us on Patreon. You can support this show directly. Any number of other content creators that you'll find on there. You know, being a content creators kind of a it's kind of a rough space to be in. It is it can the the landscape can shift underneath you. And you kind of feel like you don't really have control over it. But when you have a Patreon where you go directly to your to your viewers and listeners, that can give you some amount of stability. And it is very much appreciated. If you do sign up with ours, you get a thank you card in a sticker in the mail, no matter what level as well. Thank you to everybody who supports us over there on Patreon and then also Ultimate Guard. And in fact, this is pretty cool. In 2026, we have agreed to stream on Ultimate Guard's channel. And this, in fact, is the first time that that's happening once per month. So we are doing a kind of a behind the scenes stream where we record the show live, but also do the pre show. And then we'll answer some questions after on there as well. So if you're interested in that, you can find Ultimate Guard on Twitch. It's twitch.tv slash ultimate guard life. And hi, everybody in chat. We're there right now, in fact, doing that. So that's pretty cool. Also, they happen to make some of the best stuff in the business when it comes to protecting your cards, your decks and your collection. So if you need sleeves, deck boxes, binders, backpacks, long boxes, ways to organize your cards and protect them. Ultimate Guard's the best place to go. They use premium materials and they have really great intuitive designs that are built to last. You can check out their full line of products at ultimateguard.com and you can buy them at your favorite online retailer or local game store. One of the perks you get for being a Patreon supporter, by the way, is you get to ask questions for the Patreon question of the week. This one comes from Ian, who says, Hi, Marshal, Luis, I spent longer than I care to admit, thinking about why I find some sports more enjoyable, enjoyable, both to watch and play. I wanted to get your input on the factors that make some sports better than others and ask if there are any other factors that you would consider. Here are my factors. One, pace of play, for example, football and baseball have lots of breaks versus soccer or hockey, which is continuous play. Two, amount of scoring. Three, amount of gear required. Soccer and basketball basically basically require only a ball, whereas other sports require a lot of gear. Four, amount of contact allowed. And that's like physical, like, you know, bumping, pushing, etc. And then five, whether players must play both offense and defense. I remember Marshall mentioning this as one of the reasons he enjoys basketball. How do you when you watch and or play sports, Luis, what are the things that you look for? Well, certainly the watching and playing are very different in terms of what I'm looking for. Like the playing offense and defense, like, yeah, that's a big part of playing it because you don't want to be sitting there doing nothing. But I when it comes to watching, I don't care if the players, the same players on the field the whole time that has like basically no impact on me. My enjoyment of football is not heightened or lessened by the fact that basically each team only plays a certain percentage of the time. You have the special teams, the guys come in just a couple of times a game or whatever. They don't have a lot of field time. Well, it sucks for them. But I would say that when playing, I like sports. That I think could work with a wide range of skill levels. Basketball is pretty good at that because even the people who aren't good at shooting, that's like the main thing, like not to pick on Matt Nassier, who's definitely good at basketball. Shooting is not his strongest part of his game. In fact, longer shots, mid-range shots or three is he almost never takes. But he is good at being in the post. He's great at dribbling. He can get rebounds. He can put up layups. You know, he's a good person to have on your team. And that's part of why I like basketball is like you can play with a bunch of people who are very varying degrees of skill and still have a pretty good time. Whereas there's some sports that I'm sure score a lot less well on that, like something like tennis or badminton. You know, if you're just if you're not good at connecting, like you're going to just mostly watch the ball or or puck or birdie fly by you, whatever. When it comes to watching, honestly, I'm not a big sports watcher. I think of the sports I like basketball and football typically more. I would say a lot of that has to do with like metagame stuff. In that like, you know, BK, one of my closest friends is a huge Eagles fan. He's from Philly and all that. So like I can I like watching Eagles games with him because he gets all worked up, you know, winnerless and that can be pretty fun. I like well, I like wagering on sports because it adds a little bit of input, like a little bit more impact where it's like, oh, I really hope he scores this touchdown or I really hope it doesn't or they dropped the pass. My bet's going to win, you know. But that actually has lessened an enjoyment for me because of how much I hate the predatory sports gambling industry. And how much it bugs me that every every time you watch a sports broadcast, that's all they talk about. Yeah. So like that makes it so I don't even really do that anymore. Was a good run, though. I would always bet against Ben Stark. And he would always want Miami when the Bronos on the team. And the lines are all kind of unfavorable because all the people like Ben wanted to bet on the bronze. That was a good year. Just farming, Ben. Really, I think that putting balls in nets or hoops tends to be pretty fun, like soccer, basketball, those are those are pretty good games. I guess I'm not the biggest fan of like, I just haven't played a ton of like tennis. I've never actually played pick a wall, which everyone says is great, you know, badminton. So I've been a little bit less into those. I like golf as well. Not real golf, miniature golf. And that part of that is I've found myself drawn to sports that I can participate with the kids, you know, got a nine year old and a four year old that are both like, we love going to play miniature golf or just going to the drive in range and just hitting balls around very poorly. I might add, but still it is it is pretty good times. Yeah, I think I also have very different expectations. You know, one of the things I really like about watching football is the all or nothing nature of the of the games. Right. Like if you play in American football, like a playoff is a game like you either win it and you get to keep going or you lose it and you're out. And I really love the simplicity and the heightened. I mean, every play matters, right? Like every like there's just no room for error when you're just playing one game. It makes it, I think, sort of almost like unfairly high variance. Right. Like it does open up the the lesser team to win more often. But as just a viewer, that's way more exciting where in basketball, which I play, I like that it's smoothed out. Right. Like, yes, a lesser team can definitely beat a better team, but it's harder because everything is fractionalized a lot more. Like one missed basket doesn't make or break a game. One mistake doesn't make or break a game where in some games it can. So I think that I think barrier to entry is a big one. I tend to like, I really love basketball for its low barrier to entry for the reasons that you said, Louise, you can play, even if you're not really good at it, you can be out there and starting to learn and feel how the game flows and how things move. And then in your own time, you can work on your shot or your skills or whatever. And I really like that about it. But I have also found that some of the the sport, like the things that I've been playing are like I've been playing tennis for the last few years and it has a higher barrier to entry. Like when you first play, you just can't even get the ball to stick, you know, to go anywhere and you're basically useless. But once you kind of put in a little bit of work to just be able to get the ball back over, you can kind of get your footing and start to go from there, which I really like. And then you mentioned golf. I recently got my first set of golf. I have a deal with myself because I just know I'm going to be one of those people that gets completely obsessed with golf that that I won't start playing until I stop playing basketball. But like now I'm really old and I'm still playing basketball. And I'm like, well, maybe I'll play basketball longer than I anticipated I would when I was in my 20s. And so I need to start working some golf in there, too. And that's another one that has a relatively high barrier to entry, you know, just to be out there golfing with people is difficult because there's the etiquette and the pace of stuff and all that equipment. You have to go and get all this gear. You have to go find a drive like a course and like, you know, reserve a tea time. And yeah, it seems like actually quite a bit of work, but the people I know who love golf like really love golf. They're so into it. And I just I know it just hits the same part of my brain. Plus it's really nice to be outside. And, you know, they obviously keep most of the golf courses really beautiful and stuff like that. Cool question, Ian. Thanks for that one. That's something I've thought about, too, and myself. Before we get into. I will say, by the way, adding on to your basketball thing. My dad was obsessed with volleyball, growing up, he played volleyball on a team multiple times a week. I remember going to the park every weekend and he just basically made us sit around for like three hours while he played volleyball, which is totally fine. I think that's actually like a good, good parenting is not is letting your kids see that you also have things you want to do and they can just go play at the park, you know, or whatever. Yeah. But my dad played. Volleyball until he was like in his like kind of like mid sixties. Like you could you can you can if you take care of yourself, you could you can play these things for quite a while. Yeah, that's what I'm hoping. Also, by the way, Matt Nass is is an elite rebounder. He he has. Oh yeah, man, that's great. You're the only thing I have over Matt Nass besides, you know, a couple inches in height is is I am better at shooting than. Yeah, you got a good shot. You're you're mid range. Well, I did. I'm I'm beyond washed at this point. It's been so long. We'll we'll stage a comeback after the kids are in college or something. OK, before we jump into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, we did want to mention two things, I guess, about Laura, when Eclipse one is that we are still going to do the sunset show for it probably next week. We wanted to put the plan cap on it. As you know, we're still, you know, this this set came out pretty quickly after it. I spoiler alert, I view that as a little bit of a blessing. But but yeah, so we'll talk about that. And then the other one was that we had our first of the the the new arena opens right on the the weekend or whatever, you know, the two day win two thousand dollar events over the last weekend here, except for with the new structure, right, which involves the two big changes, I guess, would be that it's draft on day one and day two. And then also that there's qualifications for the limited championship at stake now as well. I did five runs, Luis, on day one, but I failed to make day two. I got to five wins twice, but I'll be honest, I didn't really feel that close to qualifying. And I'll tell you, there was two things that stood out, Luis. One, it was hard. Those felt very difficult. I was like, I kind of thought, oh, it's draft. This is great, you know, and I actually like sealed. I didn't hate that. I wasn't, you know, trying to make them get rid of that. But I thought, well, if they're going to give me draft both days, even better. But it felt very, very difficult. And then the other thing that stood out was that somehow Laura, when eclipsed, has the ability to make draft feel like sealed, where you kind of have to lock into an archetype fairly early. And then you're just along for the ride anyway at the mercy of the packs, which is kind of one of the things that people feel about sealed. What about you? I think I did ultimately like 10 runs. I got seven out of ones. I had a great elementals deck and I got five wins once and like four wins. And then I got a bunch of lower ones. And then on day two, I had a really frustrating draft where I first picked a good elementals card. I mean, I'm not even what it is at this point. But and basically my first like eight picks were all good elementals stuff, like straight blue, red. And then ended up elementals was in goblins was like kind of open. I could have taken like a fifth pick curse catcher, curse crafter. But there's a decent elementals card in the pack. So I just stuck the course elementals then ended up goblins really open. Elementals were just not open. So that was kind of a bummer. Ended up going O2 on day two. And overall, it's tough. Lorna Clips definitely not my favorite format, like having drafts where it's like, OK, my first five picks are great Elves cards and then Elves dries up and you end up with an unplayable deck and the kind of like type of stuff where it's like a lot of the best cards in the set, like something like a gathering stone. It just doesn't work when you don't get there on your deck. Totally. And like that can happen in every set. And to say, you know, the good parts about the format, I really like drafting like vivid elementals decks, multicolor vivid decks. You can draft some cool in between tribes stuff and like works out. Like I don't think the format is terrible. It is a format, especially when you're looking like, all right, you've got to get seven wins in order to advance here. Like it feels to me that like trying to really trying to to hit a home run with an Elves deck or an Elementals deck is going to get you that a little bit better than being more open, but maybe being more open is better. I will fully admit that going into this, like my last couple of weeks, not a lot of time for magic in general and still plenty of cube. So I was not as fully prepared for this event. Like I didn't feel like I was at like a top notch event where I was like, you know, some of like arena open weekends for a format like Avatar. And I drafted a ton. Like, yeah, I felt completely prepared. This I had some picks where I didn't feel like I knew exactly what I was supposed to be doing and kind of ended up in a spot where it's like, I think that I could have done a little bit better had I had a little bit more practice, but you know, that's just not where we were. So I like the format of draft into draft, which I think is pretty cool. So I do like that. I wish I wish it was with a format I like more, but that's just kind of whatever. Is this like predatory in the sense that it's like, you know, you could just there was someone on the subreddit who posted about someone who drafted like 40 times and didn't make that. Oh, yeah. You know, and it's like these are expensive entries. These are like 25 bucks a pop or whatever. You know. So yeah, I overall like there being high stakes limited. I am happy about that. I, you know, obviously would prefer to do a little bit better than I did, but yeah, didn't feel too bad about it. I think it's cool to at least have the opportunity. Did you did you have the sense for the difficulty level? Like I felt like it was harder. Did you feel like I mean, people who were opting into this, I think, tended to be on the better side of the spectrum. Not everyone, but overall, I would say that the skill level was high. And. OK. Yeah. Well, we'll keep an eye on it. I think the basically I'm going to reserve judgment until we have one with a set that's a little more normal than than easy, like a 10 pair format. Like I don't know why we've been cursed with, you know, these these five color pair formats. We've had now three of them in the past few months. And I just I don't get it at all. Like it's a total feature of draft to have the 10 pairs. The problem is they start out intentionally with fewer, like well supported archetypes, and then some of those don't quite get there. Right. And then you end up with like a lot staler or flatter of a draft format. So I do not. I I I understand it, I guess, for the for Spider-Man and for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which are two of those sets, because they decided to do smaller number of cards in the set. And maybe it's just hard to flesh out 10 archetypes with that many cards. But like E.C.L. I I understand that they went for the typo stuff. But I'm just like, that does not work. Like that set that set was very constrained, I think. I wouldn't say it doesn't work. And I think the set had some interest into it. I I I just want to be clear that some of my kind of inability or unwillingness to engage with the set is not so much that I think it was necessarily just bad. It just was not good timing for me. Like any set would have I would suffer for less attention. I don't think E.C.L. is as good as a lot of the sets that we could talk about. Yeah, because I I I have a different take. Like I going back to E.C.L. In that format was like very unappealing to me. I was like, oh, I was putting up with it. I thought I was like semi enjoying the set, but I was just tolerating it. Because once I got in, I'm like, this is so dumb. Like I'm taking three cards. They all say Elf on them and I'm just hanging on for the ride. And they ended up being completely not open in one of my drafts. So I did the thing you're supposed to do and I tried to switch to something else. And then, of course, in pack two, I get shipped a bunch of good Elf stuff that I can no longer take. And my drafts a train wreck and I'm like, why? Like, why is it that I'm three picks into this draft and I and I already feel locked in like that is not that is not that that is a fundamental difference between basically every other draft format and this one. And I think that's bad. I I'm like, this is why like why don't why not have it be more fluid? You know, it's more interesting that way. I was an alloy argument I would make there is that you aren't locked in an ECO. And I think if we had like spent more time really hammering the format, you would look you would you would find some of those times where you should stay open or switch or whatever. But I think that we can definitely speak to the experience of like we've played this a good amount and it's in we feel this way. So yeah, like that there's definitely something there, you know, we'll talk about it on this on the Sunset Show. Let's turn our focus here to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. So kind of interesting from a big picture perspective, because, you know, they have, of course, branched out into many different IPs with universes beyond. And this is another one of those sets. But I will say it's starting to feel like there's real universes beyond sets. And then there's these right. These these smaller sets that have the pick two stuff, the five archetype draft, they just don't feel the same as Final Fantasy, Lord of the Rings, Avatar, right? Those feel very much like a real fully fleshed out, full on magic set that happens to be using IP from something else. And these ones, at least Spider-Man definitely didn't. And thus far, this hasn't felt that way either. And I'm wondering if we're going to get kind of two tiers of universes beyond. Like I'm imagining the pitch meeting from Wizards being like, do you want the deluxe package or do you want the standard package? Right. And it's like, if the whoever owns Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is like, I will just take the standard package. Like, OK, for that, you get 190 cards, you know, and then they go down the list. But this does have a much different feel than when they do the full on set, which I think is kind of interesting. I didn't know that that would be part of the equation when like they really, you know, broke the dam open on universes beyond. And I have to say that at least for these two, one that we've kind of a known quantity with Spider-Man and then, you know, the initial steps into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, they do feel very different from each other. From the big sets in this and the small sets. Yeah, I totally agree. I think I wouldn't be surprised if we see fewer small sets. But it's so weird because it's like, you know what the best selling set was last year? Final Fantasy. Oh, was it? Apparently, like at the time, you know, that it came out, it was the best selling set or whatever. And you'd like to think that and maybe I'm wrong about that. I misheard that or something. And you would like to think that like they would still be able to look at sentiment and because a lot of this is a bad set costs future sets revenue. It itself doesn't necessarily pay the price. But because everyone's like, oh, I'm so in. I love magic. And then after a couple of disappointing sets, you're like, OK, I'm not going to buy the next one. But I just think the smaller sets really, at least from our perspective of drafters, they just don't they don't. They don't drop as well as a big set. They just don't like I end. And so I hope not to see more of that. I think there is. I think the Star Trek set might be that way too. Yeah. I mean, if that's the case, that's the case. We can't really change that. I mean, they can do is engage with it or not as you see fit. And the less people engage with it on the draft axis, that does send some kind of message. It might ultimately not be enough for them not to make these sets, but maybe they make less of them. Who knows? Yeah. And like you said, if they're making a ton of money, then and that's our prerogative, then fair enough. But as you also said, Louise, it's up to us to decide what we want to interact with. And so let's take a look at the broad strokes here for this, because this is a fun IP, you know, and if they would manage to balance out these archetypes, maybe there's some meat on the bone here. Basically, they did a similar thing where they've picked five of the color pairs and those are the ones that they've supported. So you'll see gold cards in there. You'll see hybrid cards that can straddle two of them. And the other archetypes, at least from what we can tell early here, are more or less forgotten or not viable, right? Because it's just so hard if you just never get any gold cards and other archetypes do to make a really good archetype. So there's that. This also has been designed with pick two in mind. That's the one where you do a four player draft and you take two cards with each rotation of the pack instead of one during a draft, which, you know, that that format has a little bit of potential. I think, you know, from what I understand, the idea is to try to get commander players to do some drafting because it's four players and most commander games are played with four players and maybe you could do a draft before or after your commander game or in between or whatever. It's quicker because you're taking two cards, only four players. You kind of blast right through it. And it still does create, you know, a limited experience. It's maybe not quite as deep as the, you know, eight player draft that we're used to. But there's, you know, there's choices, there's things and there's maybe some meat on the bone, though we're going to be doing this under the lens of a normal eight player draft, which I assume we're going to be able to do on arena, though at this point I never quite know. And then as we mentioned, these, these sets are smaller. This, this set has a hundred and ninety cards. Now we're going to go over each of the archetypes and just kind of give you a sense for what they are and give you a couple of cards, you know, that we've picked from the commons and uncommons to kind of illustrate how the cards, how the mechanics work for that and what you might want to be doing with it. So you have any other big picture stuff before we get into that, Luis? No, I mean, I'm interested to see how this plays out. I'll certainly, I didn't even do early access. I didn't realize it was going on, but I certainly will do some of these drafts. And really, if it turns out that this is a great set and we love it and the audience loves it, we'll do more on it. My guess is we're not going to be there, but we should give you the tools to at least approach this. Right. So this is us kind of dipping our toe in. And if the water's warm, you'll see a lot more about Ninja Turtles. I mean, it would be really cool if they, if they were able to make these types of sets really great for limited. So the first archetype we're going to talk about of the five is black, white, and they call it sneaky ninjas, which is kind of the Leonardo splinter vibes here. Um, and it revolves around the sneak mechanic, which is a, it's basically an alternate cost mechanic that you can pay an alternate cost, usually cheaper by having an unblocked attacker during the declared blocker steps of your turn. And what you have to do is pay the sneak cost and then return that untapped, excuse me, that unblocked attacker to your hand. And then you, you get to play the thing for the sneak costs. So you are still putting it on the stack. You are still casting it. It's just an alternate cost for it. And, uh, you know, a lot of times it makes it cheaper or you get a bonus for it, that type of thing. Um, and then of course, you know, ideally you're taking advantage of the fact that you're returning something to your hand by recasting it, maybe getting into the ETB ability or something like that. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's basically ninjutsu. Um, but it's, uh, you know, it's now in white, of course, and sneaky may make sense for turtles. I'm interested to see how the, how the archetype actually plays out. Cause what you're going to want is a lot of evasion, ways to get blockers through, especially at cheap costs. And, uh, you're going to be aggressive, presumably. That's right. So here's a few of the, the different, uh, like just to give you a few examples of the card. So first card up is a common called foot ninjas. It is four and two black, white hybrid. You'll see hybrid a lot throughout this set. That's one of the ways that they can use to kind of smooth over some of the, uh, five color or five archetype setup. This is, so it's a six man of five, five, and it's a human ninja. And it says, when this creature enters, you gain three life. So six man of five, five ATB gain three life, but it has sneak for three and a black, white hybrid. So four man a total. And again, just to read the mechanic, you may cast this spell for three and a black, white hybrid. If you also return an unblocked attack or you control the hand during the Medicare blocker step, it enters tapped and attacking. So that's the ninjutsu feel, um, you know, for, for this creature, but it is interesting because they didn't limit sneak to just creatures. So you do have to kind of map that out. But yeah, so like if you ninjutsu this thing in, you gain three life and you hit them for five and I don't know, or sorry, if you sneak this in and, you know, I don't know if you sneak it back to your hand and do it later, you know, you can gain three more life, et cetera. It's a bit of a controlling card, which I'm, I'm kind of curious, uh, if, you know, how, if the decks are going to actually play out with that, but it is also nice that just casting this seems totally fine. Just to stabilize the board or whatever. Yeah, I mean, yeah, how often would you have cut six mana, five, five game three? Like obviously there are formats where you would not play that, but also at hybrid, it's pretty easy to take. It could go another decks. Yeah. So she has a common. Yeah. Especially as a common. Here's another creature with sneak. This is a Ruku sake shredder rising. So this is two in a black for a three one legendary creature, human ninja at common. And yes, that does mean that they did that again too. This is a legendary common. So this is another design choice that's questionable, you know, putting these legendary creatures in a small set at common means it's, you will often end up with multiple of these in your deck. And now it's like, well, you know, I've got legendaries that I just can't even play out of my hand, even though that's just part of my normal mana curve because something like 40 something percent of the creatures in this set are legendary. It's a huge amount. But it's a three one. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. They went back to that. It's like three mana. So 200 black for a three one. And it says, whenever it deals combat damage to a player, you draw a card and lose one life and then it has sneak for just one in a black. So again, you can sneak it in if one of your creatures doesn't get blocked. And then instead they take the three damage and you get the card and lose the life. I mean, that's pretty nice, right? I, you know, one in a black is very cheap just for kind of any unblocked creature to turn it into, you know, maybe even a little more damage and getting a card out of the deal, of course, is very appealing. Yeah. I mean, I look at this card and I'm like, well, yeah, I would be happy to play this card if you can, if you can, you know, enable it with some some good like one drop flyers, that sort of thing. Then then then we're talking and there is, you know, there's an O2 flyer for one man. It's uncommon, but it is pretty funny that that that kind of does the thing you want it to do. Yeah. Do you go ahead? I was just going to say, I'm still not seeing like a really significant build around, but you know, there is there's stuff you can do here. Is it how big of a cost is it to to do the sneak mechanic? You're getting usually a better deal on the creature you're sneaking in, but you do have to return a creature to your hand and then, you know, presumably you'd need to then recast it at some point. So I would say that returning the creature is not a huge cost. Like it is a cost and it can especially can be if you're like returning a four drop or something. A lot of the time the mana you spent on the creature and the mana you saved with by sneaking in is like pretty close. Like you don't end up really up on mana, but what you do end up ahead on is sometimes you'll have the equivalent of a five or six drop creature and play on turn four, even if your total mana you spent was let's say two on the thing you snuck plus four. So you spent six. But usually when you break up mana costs in between turns, it effectively is a discount. Four plus two is a lot less than six. Like four plus two is closer to five than six. And, you know, in terms of opportunity costs and all that. The biggest thing, though, is like, what are you getting out of sneaking? Well, with like, you know, the three one, what you're getting is you get to get that trigger, you get to get that card. So even if you end up spending a little bit more mana than you would you would normally do, that's still a pretty good deal. So I look at it like, OK, I get I get that extra trigger. So it's kind of worth the effort. Like if you were to go all the way to the extremes of something like a falling chanel, we write in cube. That card is worth a lot of kind of like deck building and in game, you know, maneuvering because when you hit them, you get a really good deal. So and you're and you would presume that you get all that mana and more back if you hit them with the card like that. Yeah. So I think that I think that overall sneak, it depends on how many like things that have triggers like, you know, like the rare Leonardo that has lifelink and gets a counter whenever you gain life. Like obviously the joke there is you sneak it in, you gain a life, you get a plus and plus on counter all that. So like there are definitely things that care about hitting hitting them. So you're able to do that. It's it'll be tough to see like exactly what how the the deck plays out. But it's probably just more of a mid-range deck that's getting an advantage by sneaking into creatures, maybe a little ahead of schedule. OK, yeah, because I mean, one way to to think about it, right, is. Let's say I play a two man, a creature, I attack with it, it goes unblocked. I sneak in a Roku sake. Now the two mana creatures back in my hand, I do hit them for the two and I get the card. So that's kind of for the three in the card. And then so that's the benefit I've got, but I do need to now recast that, right? So for my three mana plus two mana creature on the battlefield, which is, you know, ultimately where we want our creatures to be. I have now spent six mana, you know, to get that five mana worth of creatures back onto the battlefield. So the question becomes, well, what are you getting for each of those transactions? Is there is there a an ETB effect that you're generating? Is there a combat thing like a Roku sake has? Right. And those have to add up to more value than the mana you're getting, because it is a little slow. I did look as well, Luis, and there's a there's a common, a black common called squirrel anoints, which is black for a one one death touch. So that there's your play this on turn one, and then they have to decide whether to block it or if they don't have a one mana player or two mana, you know, then you can get a Roku sake back because the math changes really favorably when you can reduce like the example I gave was a two drop into a Roku sake, but, you know, and I'm just using that as an example, you know, foot ninjas, et cetera, et cetera. But if the cost you're paying up front to get squirrel anoints down and then return it to your hand and then just recast at that turn, for example, well, now all of a sudden, you know, you're cooking with fire, right? Now now you're getting those transactional benefits, but you're also not falling too far behind on on mana. There are what you also would like to do is bounce things that have leaves player or enters play trigger, yeah, like the O2 flyer. When it leaves, it gives you a food. So like you get a little bit of extra value that there. That's obviously like kind of a map to do that. Yeah, that's featherbrained. Filture it's white for a zero to flying bird mutinette uncommon. And when it leaves the battlefield, you get a food token. So that's a very obvious sneak enabler. One more card to talk about is Kharaz technique. This is one black, white. This one is a sorcery. It's uncommon, but it says choose one or both target creature gets plus three plus three until their turn target could you get minus three, minus three until their turn. So very powerful, right? If you even just cast it for three, you know, you kill something, pump up one of your things pretty dang good, but it also has sneak. And it is a cost reduction too. It's just black, white. And again, this isn't a creature. So the whole tapped and attacking thing doesn't play in, but you know, you can cast it for just that much, but you do need to return an unblocked attacker you control to your hand to get that benefit. Yeah, this card, I mean, first of all, it shows off how sneak can be on spells. But also this is a card you want to think about when your opponent makes an attack that looks bad, but gets one thing through unblocked for sure. For sure. It's like, oh, because now all of a sudden you're I killed your three, three that double blocked my four, four with the two, two, and I pumped my one, one that you're blocking with the two, two or whatever, you know, like, right, there are things you can do there. It also shows that, you know, sneak does get around timing. You know, this is a sorcery, but you can sneak it in at effectively instant speed. It just has to be in this one window of your own declare blocker step, the declare blocker step on your turn. By the way, that is the only window that you can do sneak. Ninjutsu had a wider window where like you could even do it after that. And if you really wanted to, yeah, and that isn't the case here. You have this one window to sneak. And if you don't, then that's it. Yeah. So, you know, deck looks kind of interesting. I, I tend to be skeptical of decks like this because the setup cost can be kind of high, like you need to have a high creature count. You need to be able to have some evasive threats to be able to get through. And a lot of times cards that have sneak on them will play out kind of mediocre. If you're not ever sneaking them, like if your plan is to just simply curve out and play them, pay them for their full price, you know, you're not really doing the thing and you do pay a little extra on the front end of those cards to have that sneak ability on there. So I would really want to try to enable this as best I could, which would mean really low curve, one drops are a priority evasion is a priority. And then try to get the ones that really get me something nice back, you know, like the gain three life is pretty good. It is a five five for foot ninjas. So that probably hits hard enough to make it worth it. But like I like a Roku sake, like give me a card, right? Like if I'm going to take the time to do this stuff, like I want to get some real benefit, like a card or killing a creature or something like that. But it looks kind of mid-rangey to me, Luis. Like I think you want to try to be aggressive with it, but it just feels like the cards themselves just aren't really built that way. Yeah, I agree. I think I think that you're going to play the five five game three and you're going to be pretty happy about it. But, you know, it would be nice to be a little bit more aggressive. I think it looks like it will play like a board controlling kind of mid-range deck that uses sneak as a way to kind of gain some mana here, gain some card advantage there. Yeah, I'd be surprised if it's the type of thing that you're doing all the time. Like you do fall behind at some point, you know. All right. Next one is Blue Red Machines, which is Donatello's color pair, if you will. Donatello does machines or whatever. Yeah, he's I guess he's just the tinkerer is kind of the the deal, right? The inventor, however you want to put it. So basically it looks like artifacts matter is kind of the deal. A classic archetype. Yeah, it doesn't they didn't it doesn't look like they made up anything super specific for this. There are mutagen tokens, which we'll talk about in a later archetype that you'll see in this archetype as well, which are artifacts. But I'm just going to read a few of the cards that look like they might matter. One of them is called Mauser Marker, the third, which is one in a blue red hybrid for a two, three artifact creature, robot it common. And it says this creature can't attack unless you control another artifact. So there's a good example of it being an artifact and it carrying about other artifacts being on the battlefield. And if you do get another one on there, you know, you're getting a nice price for this, right, to matter for a two, three. Yeah, I mean, this this is the sort of thing that would be good in your artifact stack. It's not what makes your artifact deck good, but it shows, you know, the kind of support that that you're going to have here in blue red. Right. Then there's Donatello Turtle Techie. So this is the common legendary Donatello. So this is three in a blue for a three, four. And it says when Donatello enters, if you control an artifact, draw a card. So pretty classic. And that's a nice design. I like that card. I like the stats. I just kind of like everything about it, honestly, except for the the legendary part, but because I'd like to have three or four of these in my deck and feel like I could just run them out. Yeah, I mean, if you get a card from this, like more than half the time, you're probably pretty happy with it. And I would imagine the artifact decks will get a card from it pretty reliably, which looking like a decent control deck so far, like just getting stuff on the board against the artifact decks. It looks like you're incentivized to trade off if you can, because they probably care about artifacts being in play generally. Exactly. And then we've got an uncommon called Baxter Stockman, which is three blue red for a three, three legendary human scientist at uncommon. And it says when it enters, create a one one colorless robot artifact creature token. So there you go. And at the beginning of combat on your turn target artifact creature, you control gets plus three plus zero and gains first strike and vigilance and talent of turn. So a nice little, you know, two creatures for one card. And then it, you know, enables you to start getting some decent attacks. And again, assuming that you have artifact creatures. So the theme is pretty clear here. And, you know, I think it's a good thing that they kept this one a little more on the simple side. Like I don't think that you need to completely reinvent the wheel for every archetype, even if you're only dealing with five. And this one's very understandable and it looks kind of cool. Actually, this is, this is when I, I'm a kind of a Donatello guy. So this is the one that I'm drawn to early. Yeah. One of the things we'll look for as we go through these five decks to is look at what the overlaps are. Cause the thing is right now artifacts and Jutsu don't really seem to overlap, but that's fine. That's a blue, red theme and a black, white theme. It doesn't really matter. But as we go into like black green, for example, it's like, OK, well, how does black green overlap with black, white? How does black green overlap with blue, green, right? These are some of the supported decks because you want to see if you get there on one, can you, can you kind of incorporate card familiar theme? If it's not completely open. Totally. And there's a card that we'll talk about for the last deck for the mutagen deck called Return to the Sewers that I think very much will be, you know, a big overlap card with this deck and then that mutagen deck. Again, we'll talk about it, but a mutagen is a token that is an artifact. So that I love mutagen tokens, by the way. Yeah. Same. It's an artifact, one tap sacrifice at sorcery speed to give a creature a plus one, plus one counter. It's in the vein of blood, clues, landers, you know, like all of those. Right. Tokens. Yeah, all of these play great. Yeah. Like I think that I think that they are they're really fun. And clearly making tokens is a big part of magic cards these days. And so they're always on the lookout because it can be it can be a nice cohesive theme. All like, you know, 17 cards in the set. I'll make this one token and they all have ways to play with it. That's a really cool thing. And mutagen actually looks like a really good clean design. So I like that part. It's not all negative, certainly. No, not at all. And and I think that, you know, I would I say to mutagen tokens are welcome to the club. Like, come on in. You know, like I'd love to see these printed later on as well. OK, the next archetype is black green disappear. Now, I kind of want to approach this in two ways, Louise, because one of them is just like, seriously, you're here in this mechanic again. Like we've seen this, but also I think it's slash revolt. Right. It's also like an OK mechanic. And if the cards are good and it works, then fine, I don't I don't really mind. It's just a little bit weird that we're seeing another tweaked version of the same thing, which is, as Louis said, void or revolt. It's at the beginning of your end step, usually or whatever, if a permanent left the battlefield under your control, this turn, that's disappear. So you have to have things die or get bounced or returned or whatever. They have to leave and it is counting under your control. Because if I remember correctly, void was just if a permanent left the battlefield this turn, right? And revolt was was void is a nonland revolt does count. Revolt, they're all. Yes. But revolt doesn't count their stuff, right? Right. They're all slightly different. Yes. So I hope you like having your rules, knobs turned slightly. We're like, is that the same thing? No, it's not quite. Also, I will say, though, that these type of mechanics have traditionally struggled, you know, to be kind of a core mechanic. So I'm I'm worried about it a little bit. But anyway, this is black green. Michelangelo disappear. So one of the cards is insectoid exterminator, which is two and a black for a two, two flying insect mutant at common. And it has disappeared at the beginning of your end step. If a permanent left the battlefield under your control, this turn, scry one. So three man of two, two flyer, scry one, if you've managed to disappear. The I'm not, you know, we don't know this set well enough yet, but it is interesting how much more difficult it is to get disappear and revolt going than you might think. Right. It it feels like that would just be a normal part of a game of magic enough that like most turns you'd get the trigger. And it doesn't actually play out like that. I don't know if it's we saw that in edge of eternity is pretty clearly. Mm hmm. Yeah, I think maybe a big chunk of it is that it's more difficult to get things to disappear on your turn than you might think it is. But especially, by the way, when your opponent knows that's what you want, that was part of the problem. Right. Is you're like, OK, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to enable void. And it's like, well, you're a void deck. So when you when you attack me, I'm just going to choose not to trade, which by the way, that's a little bit of leverage because here's here's where you can get a little arbitrage. You're black green. You attack them. They don't block because of disappear and you just have an engine instead. You get to sneak something in. So. Oh, that's interesting. So that's like the kind of like overlaps that you want to see. Or likewise, you're in black, white, you attack because of sneak, they block. And then you play your black disappear card and you're just like, boom. So that's kind of cool. I like all that. I do, too. And that's one of the places that I'm going to be looking the most here, Luis, are those overlaps, right? You mentioned that that you've got your eye on it. I do, too. I I think that that's where the magic is with these, where if there are cool overlaps mechanically, then that would be a big boon to the set. Michelangelo again, there's if you haven't looked at the set yet, there's so many legendaries, there's many versions of each of the turtles, including combinations of turtles and stuff. But there's the common Michelangelo Michelangelo game master. This is two and a green for a three, three legendary mutant ninja turtle, which by the way, that's pretty cool, right? That the the the actual creature type like fit in magic's templating to be like that seems like a non-starter, if not. Yeah, I mean, they couldn't get teenage in there, but close enough, you know. And again, it's a common and it has disappeared. The bane area and set of permanent left bow field under your control this turn. Put a plus one, plus one counter on him. And I got to say, Luis, these both feel a little low, right? Just a scri one or he grows a little bit. He is the three man, the three three. So like, you know, counters definitely are putting him above the curve, even just getting one. But again, it from experience, it is actually harder than you think to get these counters going. And I kind of wanted to see even a little more punch, you know, out of these comments. Yeah, I agree. It's a it you I look at the insectoid exterminator and Michelangelo. I'm like, yeah, I would put these in my deck. Do I care that much if if these things work? I'm not really going to build our deck around this. That doesn't really seem like a thing. Right. That's a good way to put it. Is this worth aiming to the, you know, where you're really trying to set this stuff up? Because I mean, if you just build a regular deck, you will be able to trigger disappear every once in a while, just by playing magic. It just won't be as often as you think. Another common is foot mystic. This is three in a black for a two for human ninja warlock. It common it's it's got life link and it has disappeared. And this is also interesting to note that disappears reminder text that says this cares about something having left the battlefield. It is not rules text that says like the first two trigger at the beginning of your end step, if you had a permanent leave, this one doesn't. It says when this creature enters, if a permanent left the battlefield under your control, this turn, create a one one black ninja creature token. So make sure you pay attention to that, right? That maybe the templating tends to be on end step. If you've got disappear going, then something happens, but it doesn't have to be. So, you know, this one is probably aimed at go to combat, attack you, trade off, play foot mystic, get a one one out of the deal, go. It does work with sneak, as we mentioned as well. So if you have enough mana, you might be able to set up the house of cards of getting an unblocked attack or sneaking in and then playing your foot mystic or, you know, you know, Michelangelo or whatever after that to get that trigger going. And that could be a thing too. Again, none of these are really standing out as like, oh, that's awesome. Like that that seems really straightforward there. They make you work for it for sure. Yeah. And I think a lot of these payoffs, they reflect the fact that disappears. I think that happens naturally by not giving you massive payoffs for them. Whereas like sneak is a lot harder to maneuver an unblocked creature, you know, especially your opponent knows about it is a little tougher. So it is interesting to see kind of how these end up. Yeah. And it is worth noting that, you know, we picked three comments to kind of give you the the cards you're going to see the most often and to get an idea of course, as you go up in rarity, the disappear payoffs get a lot better than that. Next up ostensibly, ostensibly the aggressive deck, it's red, white Alliance. This is Raphael's color pair. And basically he's trying to get the party started. So Alliance cares about whenever another creature you control enters the battlefield, then that one, this one gets a benefit. For example, E.P.F. point squad is one and two red, white hybrid. So three man a total for a two one at common. And it has Alliance. Whenever another creature you control enters, put a plus one, plus one counter on this creature, and that's a common. Yeah. I mean, Alliance is one of the easiest things to do because it's like, Hey, what is your red, white deck want? Oh, a bunch of creatures. Well, that works out nicely. And the point squad here to one that gets a counter is a little awkward stats. It would actually, I think be stronger as a one, two, because most of the time you're going to play this next turn play creatures three, two, you probably wait one more turn and then start attacking, which means that if they then have removal or bounce, it can it can have set you back a decent amount. But this still looks like a pretty good threatening card. You don't need that many triggers before you're pretty happy about it. Yeah. So things that go up in priority, creature count creatures. Yeah. Also creatures that create multiple creatures, right? You know, if it ETBs and it makes a token or something like that, that's even better. So those are the two things, you know, and then of course your curve, you know, you'd love to be able to do a double spell, a double creature spell turn to get like, say, two Alliance triggers on two creatures. Like that would be a really powerful turn. And this one being a common is already pretty good. I mean, it is a two one. So, you know, realistically, until you're kind of really happy, you need to get the second plus one, plus one counter on it to make it into a four, three, a three, two isn't really a payoff, you know, for three mana. But it's just not asking that much of you, which I really like. And then I didn't want to illustrate some of the contrast between the rarities. So this is Raphael, tough turtle. This is the common Raphael. So it's one in a red for a one, three at common. Again, it's got Alliance. Whenever another creature you control enters Raphael deals one damage to target opponent. So it's just a little two drop as a one, three. And it just pings whenever you start to curve out. That could get pretty annoying in the mid to late game. But this is the uncommon Raphael. So this is Raphael most attitude. This is three in a red for a four, three. Same thing, legendary, blah, blah, blah, but it's uncommon. It's got menace and Alliance. Whenever another creature you control enters, you may exile the top card of your library. And it says whenever Raphael attacks until end of turn, you may play a card exiled with Raphael. So, you know, this is like four power menace. And if it survives, you can even use it to get a few extra cards here and there. So you can tell that, you know, they take the gloves off pretty quickly when they start going up in rarity. Yeah. And the Raphael most attitude actually reminds me of the Zuko from from Avatar the one on a red Zuko. It is. Yeah, that's right. It is very similar. Yeah, I mean, I think Alliance is one of the one of the easier mechanics to just like kind of have work naturally, which is pretty cool. And I think it'll play pretty nicely. It's pretty straightforward. Would you say that I'm more most attitude or tough turtle? You're tough turtle more than most attitude. I would say our last archetype is the one we mentioned before, which is mutagen, which is the green blue archetype. And this was kind of a thing with with Avatar, but they had a lot more room where, you know, Avatar had four core mechanics, but magic has five colors. And the turtles, there's four of them, but they did five archetypes. So this one doesn't really have like a turtle. Well, there's actually apparently more than four turtles now. Like if you there was there, there's the blue green card that shows them playing magic, which is first of all kind of goofy. But also there's five turtles there because apparently one's like a turtle that got added later. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, that's funny. Well, that one didn't quite get the the props to get its own color draft archetype. It says the tagline from Watsi says, pull the team together with an ever-growing assemblage of mutants that use mutagen tokens to grow bigger and weirder. So this is kind of covering the the idea of, you know, non turtle, non-teenies being Ninja Turtle mutants, I guess. Louise mentioned it, mutagen tokens are a big part of this. They're the artifacts that have one tap sack, but a plus one, plus one counter at sorcery speed on a creature. And they're pretty cool. Slytherin cryptid is a common two and a green blue hybrid for a two, three fish mutant. And it says, when this creature enters, create a mutagen token. So this is interesting, you know, for what we talked about before with, it seems like one of the most obvious kind of cross pollinating here with the blue red machines deck where you can play this card, just cast it for blue in that deck and you will get an artifact kind of for free out of the deal when you play your Slytherin cryptid, like if you're maybe a little down on creature count, but you want to keep your artifact count higher if you're just desperate to get another artifact in. This could do it. And return to the sewers is that one I mentioned before. So this is three in a blue instant, again, common target creatures owner puts it on the top, on their choice at the top or bottom of their library. So this is a card we've seen printed numerous times now, and it's been good basically every time at least. It's all it's just that nowadays, you know, we do expect a little, a little bonus treat in addition. And they do give us one, you get a mutagen token. So instant speed, you know, basically removal spell and you get a mutagen token out of the deal too. So, you know, while this obviously fits really well in the mutagen deck specifically, it's definitely going to see play in blue red as well. Yeah, I think that the blue deck is going to, the blue green deck, it looks like it's it provides makes a good amount of value, which is nice. And I, I, because I really like mutagen tokens, I think that those are going to play out quite effectively. Yeah. I mean, I'm really looking for the pivot cards here, right? The cards that I think would be hotly contested by more than one deck, or that if I pick early, it will leave me open to those decks because in five color, in five archetype draft, that is really powerful because there's many cards that if you take, you only really have one option. You know, realistically, or maybe two, but some of these cards, you know, do pivot really nicely. And I mean, if you take a return to the sewers early in the draft, you really could go into blue green or blue red and be happy about it. Like this card feels like it would fit really well in either deck. A little more power level at uncommon is Genghis frog, which is blue green for a one three legendary frog mutant rogue. Again, uncommon. It does have trample. I love me a one power trampler. And it says whenever Genghis frog or another mutant you control enters, you get a mutagen token. So this is, you know, very much a build around for this deck that does the thing that it wants to do. But then if you support it with other mutants, which seems to be, you know, the short the shorthand, you know, for this deck is that it's the mutant creature type matters would be a way to look at it. And then if you focus on that, you're going to get a bunch of mutagen tokens as well to grow your team. And Genghis frog on turn two, seems great. Right. You got a one three trampler. You got the mutagen token. And then if you've built around it properly, I mean, you could just be spitting off these mutagen tokens left and right. I mean, one three is a great stats to start here. You get two tokens on this and it's like a three five. Like that's going to be pretty hard for them to deal with. And it can be, it just looks like it could run away with the game nicely. That's right. So this deck looks to me that it's going to rely heavily on how good are the mutants? Right. Just if you look up mutant creature types or things that create mutagen tokens, you know, are, are, is the relative power level of those to the other creatures in the set high, medium or low. And I think that that will be a really good shortcut for whether this is a deck that you really want to be in or not. Because I mean, the truth is with only five archetypes, like you, they all kind of have to do something. Like if one of those falls off and really doesn't keep up with the rest of them. Now you've got a format that starts to get kind of weird, right? You've got, you know, potentially eight players going for four archetypes. And that can get that it is. And these sets have the challenge of not having that backdoor of being self correcting like we always talk about where, you know, when you've got 10 color pairs, there can be one that's the seventh or eighth best color pair. But if nobody wants it and everybody's scrapping it out over the first or second best deck, that self correction, you can start to see it a little bit in the numbers. But when you have it polarized where it's effectively five supported decks and four unsupported decks, it gets really hard for one of the unsupported decks to make a dent in a format. You know, you tend to find, and we saw this in ECL as well, where you tend to find that if you really go down that road, you are 100% relying on just raw card power level rarity. You know, you need to have three rares and five on comments. And even then, if you go up against one, a decent version of one of the top decks that is supported, you'll still struggle or find yourself kind of even money against a deck like that. So that, that is, of course, the knock, you know, on that is, is just these, each of the, I mean, if you're only going to do five, they all have to play well. And if, if one of them doesn't, you really kind of put yourself into a corner. I, I, I just want to know how you're going to react when you find out that the mana war of the set is just an equipment. So it's like, no way. What is it? I haven't seen it. The spoke bow, it's two in a blue artifact equipment uncommon. When it enters, bounce an online permanent and equip three gives a creature a plus two plus one in vigilance. I mean, it's not a vehicle I'm in, you know, by the way, they put it on a vehicle. Remember in, in Avatar, it was like the mythic uncommon. So yeah. That vehicle crude itself immediately. So I think that, that one, that one can get a little bit more of a pass. I guess. No, I like this guy. I mean, the truth is, is that, you know, you kind of have me at two in a blue bounce something. If it does almost anything, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of a sucker. This, that is a fairly steep equip cost, but at least it pays you back plus two plus one in vigilance really does turn basically any creature into something that has to be dealt with. And vigilance is kind of cool too. Right. Because, you know, sometimes you're like, well, I have a one, one. I'll put this on it becomes a three to I tack you with it. And they go, sure, I'll just take the three and just crack back. And now they're like, I just have to trade off for this stupid token. And yeah, I could see it being okay. What do you think, Luis? Um, how should we approach, you know, our first, uh, forays into the format when it comes out on, I'm assuming next Tuesday. My guess is we're going to play the format and you know, it'll be okay, but we're not going to spend a bunch more time on the format afterwards. It's kind of how it is. What I think is the most likely outcome. Yeah. It's an interesting mix. I'm definitely going to dive in and do some drafts and see what's what. Um, if, if it ends up being good, if we enjoy it, we will stick with it. As we mentioned before, it's kind of a mix between what Luis and I are interested in, but ultimately, you know, we serve our audience, right? And we're here to help you get better at limited, enjoy limited more, uh, get prepared for draft formats, et cetera. So it is going to be a lot of us kind of feeling out the community about where their focus is. Cause the other thing I don't know if it'll still be up, um, but you know, cube does change a lot of this. Like having the pressure release valve of having vintage cube up on arena, which is something I want to do anyway, if a set falls a little short or maybe a good example would be ECL for me, which is that even if you kind of like it, there's not a lot there, right? Like, you know, I normally would probably get up into the, I don't know, 60 or 70 drafts or something for a format, but after like maybe 30 or 40, I'm kind of like, yeah. Okay. You know, I think I kind of figured out ECL, you know, or I've done what I want to do here or whatever. And you know, if, if they have the vintage cube up, I think it acts as a really, like I would love to be able to see the behind the scenes numbers to see, like, to just put vintage cube up as like basically the, um, the control, right? It's the placebo. It's like, okay, here's the new set. How, what percentage of people are playing that versus vintage cube? Then you know how much people really are into the new set. I know they wouldn't do that because it shoots themselves in the foot and splits there. They want all the focus on the new set. So that isn't a reality, but I do find it kind of interesting anyway. Pizza for lunch, Luis. Well, speaking of pizza, I didn't want to talk about a couple of the cards here. One, one of which is a card that Paul's complaining about this morning. I don't know why they have so many weird, disgusting pizzas in the set, which I get that's part of the show. Like I said, I did watch the show, play the games, but there's still more pizza cards and even the ones I think that are trying to look appealing do not. So I don't really get it, but, um, anchovies and banana pizza. So this is, you know, two black black. It's an artifact. It's a food. So you can pay two tap and sack at the game through life. When it enters destroy target creature, but it's not a creature opponent controls. It's not up to one creature. It's just destroy target creature. So if you cast anchovy and banana creature or pizza and in response, they bounce their own creature, but while it's still on the stack, it comes to play. Then you have to choose and kill one of your own creatures. Come on. And that's just like, well, like, why are we still doing this? Like I think it's because they, they have less time or whatever, you know, whatever combination of things that tax the designers on working on this, whether it's time, resources, staffing, whatever, they, they put the less experienced designers on maybe, I don't know, but both this and Spider-Man have templating what I consider templating mistakes that they just typically don't do. So I don't know if there's more in there. That's just the one I know about. But that, that is kind of weird. And then I wanted to mention a guac and marshmallow pizza as just a kind of cool card. It's one man of flash food and it gives a creature plus two, plus two and untapped the creature on ETB, which is, which is a pretty neat card. Like I think that that is, is going to end up playing out nicely. One man of plus two, plus two, plus an untapped, that leaves a food in play. That's going to play out better than you might think. It also works nicely with like disappear. What's the man of cost on it? One green man. One green man. Okay. You're getting a lot there. And then the last card I wanted to mention was just a really cool one. Northwind Avatar. It's two blue, blue, red. It's a mythic 55 flying dragon. And when it enters, if you cast it, you can put a card that you own from outside the game into your hand so you can pick a card out of your sideboard. Oh, that's cool. I think that this will be pretty fun and limited if you have some mana sources that provide other types of mana, kind of for free. And you can just pull a red and block card out of your sideboard or what have you. Yeah, that's kind of cool, actually. So there are some cool cards here. I will say I there's a couple of reasons that I'm less kind of viscerally repulsed by the set than I was Spider-Man Spider-Man literally after reading it. And then just playing a couple of games, I had the like sinking feeling of like, Whoa, this is awful. I don't care for this at all. There's no Omen paths. So the cards we play with on online are going to be the same cards. That's going to help a lot. If the Spider-Man cards we played with were Spider-Man instead of whatever magic themed knockoff that they could, you know, a reckoned dude, then I would have liked it more. I don't know if enough more to make it good, but definitely more. And this set would not work. Imagine trying to re re flavor this as magic, but. Reckoned dude. I mean, that basically was spectacular. Spider-Man, it still tilts me that in cube instead of playing spectacular Spider-Man online, we play that, you know, you mean superior Spider-Man or whatever. Superior Spider-Man, which, by the way, is another reason why that whole system is messed up. We get to play like a demi of the silk shoots. And it's like, yeah, this is like so much less cool. So maybe turtles will be fun. Maybe it'll be, it'll be good. If you want us to do more shows on it, you got to make that known, whether that's on Twitter, on Reddit, like, you know, I would say we, but I'll look at them and I'll relay it to Marshall. Yeah. And you can post in the patron if patrons can post on the patron. I don't have access to that. Yeah. Well, you can support the show. So it's true. It's true. By the way, there is a card called Spectacular Spider-Man and a card called Superior Spider-Man, just which one's spectacular? Spider-Man. It's one in a white. I just looked at it. It's one in a white for a three, two flash and it has. That's the card I'm talking about. It's this. Oh, I thought you were talking about the one from the demon deck. No, the reanimator one. No, no, no, no. Oh, you're right. It is spectacular. Superior is the reanimator. I'm going to castle it by spider. Sorry. I thought you were talking about the blue black one. That's I guess that kind of sums up why that isn't maybe the best way to do it. Well, yeah. So like he said, let us know. We're super happy to hear, you know, if our listener base is all in on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and finds it to be a really great set, then we will go down that road with you for sure. And if not, then, you know, we have plenty of stuff to talk about. We still have so much to talk about with cube now that it's mainstreamed to. We, we, you know, have been unleashed in that way. And so we could definitely do a bunch of shows about that and and level ups and all that kind of stuff. OK, well, let's call it a show there, Luis. If you want to find us on social media, you can find us at I'm Marshall underscore LR and Luis is LSV. And if you want to find anything related to the show, it's over at LRcast.com. Luis, are you going to do any of the Ninja Turtles stuff on your YouTube channel at the beginning? Well, after looking at how Paul's Ninja Turtles videos are done, I'm not sure that I will because he said they're doing worse than normal videos for him. And if that's the case, then I don't know, maybe I'll just skip it. OK, I was just wondering because, you know, you have to do similar to what we were just talking about with, you know, please your audience, but also, you know, make sure that you're doing enough of what you'd like to do too. And it's kind of interesting because, yeah, based normally, by the way, you know, if you do the streamer, the early access event and you're one of the first people on YouTube to get some limited content up about the new set, you'll see a pretty good. You're Paul, yeah. Even if you're Paul and he said, yeah, the the like to dislike ratio has been significantly like, I think people just at least early on aren't really liking it. But I want to give it a fair shake at least, especially if we're going to see this type of format coming in anyway, make sure you check out Lewis's YouTube channel, regardless of what he's drafted on there. It's going to be interesting either way. We want to thank Ultimate Guard for their support of the show and everybody for hanging out with us in the chat for our Ultimate Guard livestream here, which again, we'll be doing once per month. And of course, our Patreon supporters as well. That is going to do it for this one. We'll see you next week. Lewis, I have a sign off. Oh, you have. Yeah. I do you do yours. Mine. Mine will probably be short. OK, well, I just wanted to say in really good news, there's a good game of thrones back on TV. Oh, the night, whatever night of the Seven Kingdoms. Cool. I'm going to give you I'm going to give you a snippet of dialogue. No spoilers, you know, that I found so goddamn funny. So the two of the main characters are Duncan Egg, Duncan is this like gigantic night dude who's trying, you know, trying to like make his way in the world. And Egg is this like little tiny boy, right? And they're talking and Egg is like despondent because he's like, you know, I want to be a square, but I'm so small. And Dunks like, oh, yeah. Well, when I was a kid, they called me stupid, too. A lot of people did. And like, that's it. And eggs like, OK. And he's like, so. So he's like, so. Was there he's like, so what did you do? And Dunks like, well, that's none of your business. And he's like, well, I thought you were trying to give me advice. You'll be helpful. He's like advice, like what? Grow. And that's it. That's. Wow. Wow. That is next, next, next level. Miss communication. Really good. So I need to watch this. I would watch it. It's only six episodes. OK, it's quite good. I was like, oh, this is the Game of Thrones. I remember and it is it is it is really good. So I'm sad there's only six episodes. That's great. OK, here's my sign off for you, Louise. I saw a piece of content from our friend and magic all-famer, Brian Kibler, where he was asked. What his four most iconic magic cards of all time are. And you can define iconic however you'd like. And then when we had Circo on, when you were out with the kids being sick, I asked him as well. So I have both of their answers, but I want yours. What do you think is the Mount Rushmore of iconic magic cards? Black Lotus has got to be on there. I would put Sheevan Dragon on there. I think that she even it. First of all, Black Lotus is like the most expensive, most famous. One of the coolest magic cards ever. It is the card. The God of that. I think she even dragging because it was one of the first like big dragons, big, cool thing. I mean, there's a cycle like Richard Garfield. We did a whole show about Alpha for a reason, masterpiece of a set, you know. But I think she even dragon outshines Lord of the Pit, force of nature, Mahamudhi Jinn. And I guess personal incarnation would be the white one. Wow, I want to put another card in from Alpha. I guess I will. Lighting Bolt will be the other one. And then I have to do one more. And it can't be read, certainly. And it can't and it can't be from Alpha. Yeah, this is where it gets interesting. I'm not going to do it. But Brainstorm, I think, is actually like kind of a reasonable card because it a lot of what goes on for magic is similar. I mean, I know you want to get a blue card on this list. I definitely do. And I don't think force of will is right. I think like force of will is a little more in the weeds. You if you took counterspell, you think that's too alpha centric? Like it just doesn't represent. I mean, I really did set the lay the groundwork. I think counterspell, I think, like I would definitely choose counterspell over manager. I think pre-ordained would actually not be a terrible, terrible thing. But I think if we're talking about Mount Rushmore of Magic. Of iconic. Yeah, I mean, I think that Jace, the mind sculptor is like actually a pretty legit answer. I mean, it certainly is. Yeah, you know, I would go with Jace, the mind sculptor. That's an era that, you know, like, there's a lot of people now don't remember this, but Jace got banned in standard. Jace, when it released like 2010 with World Wake was like one of the best cards. It was like a hundred dollars in standard, which is like really, really hard to get there. It's actually a little bit like it's been in cubes past its prime at this point. Like it's like, you know, its stock is dwindling. It almost would have like a stronger like image if it just had been left cubes a while ago. Because like, I mean, at this point, like, look, Jace is no sheven dragon. If you put sheven dragon cube in, I don't want to ever play it. Jace, you still play and it can still can be good. But it deserves more to be on Mount Rushmore. But I would I would imagine people who have started playing or started playing more seriously in the last five years, but like, why is Jace there? Right. He's just kind of washed, right? Right. Thought Sees is also like a chat actually had a good one. Yeah. Because we're like, we're doing this on Ultimate Guards Channel. I think Thought Sees and Sarah Angel are both pretty reasonable. But honestly, I might just put Jace the Minesculpture there. OK, you want to hear the other two? Yeah, yeah. So Kibbler's answers were Black Lotus, Sheven Dragon. OK, great. Lightning Bolt. He's the Minesculpture. He did. He totally did. I can't believe it, but you guys have literally the same four cards, which I was like, oh, wow, maybe the pro player's mind really does it. That's insane. I love the lot on Jace, but I like the other three a pretty good amount. You could you could actually know I think about it. You could make an argument for Sarah Angel over Sheven Dragon. And then that breaks up the. I think I would actually do that, not not because Kibbler had the same answer. I think his answer is great. Actually, fantastic answer. But I think looking at the color combinations, I would probably I would be more, a little more inclined to put Sarah Angel. And honestly, I think more people probably like Sarah Angel back then than Sheven Dragon. I think Sheven has kind of aged better in a lot of ways, just because, well, the Sarah Angel part of the appeal is like it's this like pretty angel and I think people a little bit less into that sort of thing. Right. These days. But I think either answer is very, very good. Circo said Lotus. He also says it's just qualifying if you don't have black. I agree. I think I think you're just trying to be like, you're not doing the Mount Rushmore. You're doing something else. Right. It could be fine to do something else. Right. It's not the Mount Rushmore. It's not the iconic Mount Rushmore. Yeah. So Lotus Timewalk. And then interestingly, I do think that this this goes to kind of when you were playing or when you interacted. His next two are cards kind of from the Jace, the Minesculptor era, but a little after it and a little before it. His his next one is Tarmigoyf. You got. And then his last card was Liliana of the Vale. So he kind of hammered that like when modern really came into its own, like those were too expensive. I think what eras you play, that's why I mentioned the Jace thing. I can imagine Jace missing for a decent amount of people can impact this. I think Liliana of the Vale was, I mean, again, its star has faded a bit. It's that you look at it in cube. It's not it's not that good. You look at it in like other formats. It's not really played. Liliana, when it was printed, was super impactful. And I think a really good design. It's I still think it's a really fantastic planeswalker design. Like it could be really, really devastatingly good, but it can also be not that good in the plus one. Both players discard is actually really interesting. How it how it kind of plays out. So I think Liliana is basically the planeswalkers that aren't, you know, four or five mana minus three kilo creature plus one draw card. Like they've done a good job getting away from that these days. But there was like a five year stretch where I feel like every other planeswalker was just that it was some variation of that. And Liliana is playing so so interestingly. So good. Yes. Good question. Let's start carving. I'm out. Well, I just think I just think Black Lotus and Lightning Bolt like are such good clean answers. And I think she even and Sarah are very close, but you could pick either one. And I think Jace, the mind sculptor, that's one of a little more surprise. But I wanted a blue card. I wanted a card draw card. Having a planeswalker there, he is the planeswalker. He still is, you know, like, yes, Oco is better. Dak is better. Minsk and Boo is better. Comet is better. But like Jace is still like he none of them are ever going to approach the levels of dominance. Jace had both in standard and in cube, but also just over people's hearts and minds when it was just such the biggest card in magic. So better than all that's what gets you. That's what gets you to the top of the pound rush. But at the end of the day, all you know, it's like for for sports stuff, all the stats guys can talk about, you know, wins above replacement value, like the time spent on the court differential. At the end of the day, you know, Michael Jordan having like seven rings or whatever. Like six. Yeah. Six. Sorry, I didn't know that that that matters. Like when you're arguing about LeBron being the best and Michael Jordan has no rings, that there's something to that. I'm not saying that's the end all be all, but there is something to that. And Jace has that and like Oco, Oco is a different story. Oco, Oco is more of a vile than anything else, you know, but so yeah, great question. Yeah.