Episode 535: Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson: The Longevity Nutrient That Could Slow Aging and Protect Your Cells

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. All right, you guys, welcome to another episode of Habits and Hustle. And we have a real change maker. Even CNBC called her that. This woman, her accolades are just extraordinary and super impressive. And her name is Stephanie Van Watson. And she's joining us today. So, oh, she has a new book out coming out. Actually, her new book is called The Longevity Nutrient, and it's coming out on paperback, you said. That's right, in March. So very excited. Amazing. Well, congratulations, and thank you for being here. Thank you, Jennifer. Fantastic to be chatting with you. Very excited. By the way, I feel like we just did a whole podcast before the podcast, which is why I try, like, that's why, like, I felt like I liked you, and I'm like, oh, shoot, we're in trouble, because I knew that it would take about an hour to get into the room, and it kind of did. And I didn't want to ask you any real pertinent questions because I wanted to make sure I asked you on the show. But so anyway, thank you for being here. And your background is quite impressive. I mean, it really is. Do you want to kind of give people the origin story of why you're even here right now? Sure, sure. So I was out of the womb. Just kidding. It all started in 1971 or whatever, you know. So there it was. Yeah, so I've always been a self-proclaimed nerd. I've always been loving finding patterns. Pattern recognition is just a natural thing since I was little. My dad would come home. He worked at a library, and he would bring home books just of numbers, and I would take him down to the basement and circle patterns. Like, what a nerd, right? Really, you are a nerd. Yeah, right? That's not the thing that I would do. So I don't think they were worried at the time. So fast forward to college, and I was ready to go to medical school. And then I read a book from Lori Garrett called The Coming Plague. And I learned, what? There's a profession called epidemiology where there are doctors and their whole job is to find patterns. Like, this is fantastic. So met a veterinary epidemiologist, coincidentally. And he said, gosh, if you really want to understand diseases stuff, become a veterinary epidemiologist because you'll understand how diseases work in a lot of different species. And then you understand the disease. So that's triggered that. Went to veterinary school, got my epidemiology degree over at Emory. Next thing you know, you're in the Navy. Yeah, there you go. Signing up. Ready to serve. You know, I've never met someone that actually you are basically a veterinarian. You're a veterinarian that went to the Navy and worked on mostly just dolphins. That was basically what you studied on, correct? That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, brought in to help. It's a huge testament to the Navy race that they have this population of Navy dolphins that have been there, live in San Diego Bay since the 1960s. To their credit, they brought me in to help the dolphins. So it wasn't the fact that this has turned to it, you know, spinning out to be able to improve human health is great. But this whole thing started because they wanted to bring in a veterinary epidemiologist to study 60 years of health data to continually improve the health of their dolphins. Well, you know what I was going to ask you, what I find interesting is a lot of people who are doing what you're doing in the longevity space who are, you know, or in general, a lot of the research is based on studying on rodents or worms or things of that nature. I've never heard of people doing research, you know, by accident, let's say, on a mammal like a dolphin or a dolphin. I've never heard anyone working with dolphins, to be honest. What is, how much more accurate is the findings when you work with something like, well, an animal like a dolphin versus even working with a rodent? Because a rodent is a very different species, obviously, than humans. And then people are using that information to translate for humans. Yeah, it's a great question, Jen. So a lot of the research is being done on worms and mice and flies because it's easier, right? You have X amount of three years lifespan max for the mice. And so you can rapidly do studies for worms that's a week. So it's like, gosh, if I can get a worm to live two weeks, I can say we doubled its lifespan and a huge win on that front. So it's easy to do that research. But to your point, while there are similarities among all animals, there are really important differences. And what the gift that the dolphins gave us was that if you step back and look at all this focus in short-lived species, evolution has already figured out how a human can live 37 times longer than a mouse. So it's like if evolution has already figured out how a mammal who has, you know, we both have livers and brains and spleens and red blood cells, how is it that humans live longer than mice? So we were able to have the right question in front of us by putting in the dolphin angle, which is we were seeing that older dolphins were aging a lot like older people naturally, not forcing a chronic disease in a mouse in a lab, but just saying all of a sudden we were gifted with this patient population that have large brains and long lives. And we have co-evolved to have similar mechanisms that allow us to live a long time, but also similar mechanisms that help us be susceptible to diseases like high cholesterol and chronic inflammation and Alzheimer's. So it was just a really fortuitous gift. It really is. I mean, so what were your, like, when you were brought in to even work with the dolphins, were you there for a very specific thing that you were looking for? And then you kind of happenstance found all this other longevity or this main longevity, I guess, piece of information that nobody seemed to have known about, which is kind of crazy to me. It is. What was the whole process? Like, what did you kind of learn? What was the whole thing there? Right. How many years were you there? Oh, gosh, it's 20 years, almost 20 years. So you were researching dolphins for the basics, to kind of learn about health and longevity in humans, and that basically, or how humans would live longer, how do they actually live longer? Like, what was the basic reason why they brought you in? Right. So they brought me in because they had accumulated half a century, more than half a century of dolphin health data. So they were so ahead of the times that they were routinely collecting blood samples that are part of their routine health care. They had it in an electronic database, like data from 1980s, 1990s, and dolphins throughout their life. So every quarter, imagine going to your doctor, getting a full CBC and chem, and then all that data being put into an electronic database your whole life, and storing the samples, the serum samples, so that you could actually go back. That allowed us to do this thing called metabolomics, and actually study thousands of small molecules and match them to which small molecules predicted dolphins that got high cholesterol or got chronic inflammation. And more importantly, which small molecules protected against it. So they brought me in initially because it was about looking at infectious diseases that were present in wild dolphins and to make sure Navy dolphins were protected. There's a virus called morbillivirus, which is like measles. It's in fact, it's like it is measles in dolphins that was causing mass mortality events in wild dolphins. And so they had brought me in to understand, you know, what were the risks to the dolphin population that ended up being very low. But then while I was there over the first decade, then we started really transitioning to chronic diseases, which I'll be totally honest. I thought, oh, chronic diseases are boring. Veggies are exciting, like a bullet. And then I got into it and I'm like, oh my gosh, like this is, this is so, this for, for where we were studying so much more impact, positive impact we could have on the dolphins. And then to be able to spin out and see these exact same patterns and the ability to translate it to humans was huge. So the initial studies were all to help the dolphins. we found that this specific nutrient, C15, present in some fish but not all, the dolphins that were getting the fish with a higher C15 were getting higher C15 levels. We now know that this was enabling them to be protected against these aging-associated conditions. And the same epidemiological studies were popping up in humans. It's just it was hidden because, you know, it's saturated fat. And we thought, well, gosh, that doesn't really fit the pattern that we know. So it was just kind of pushed to the side. So nobody really kind of was able to see that finding or look. No one was looking for it, really. That's right. And so just by kind of coincidence or just happenstance, you figure it out that it was this molecule called C15 that was really enhancing the longevity and the health of the dolphins. That's right. And so we saw the first studies were, you know, association. Okay, they're associated with the dolphins that were aging healthier. And then, and all of this was funded by the Office of Naval Research. So, you know, we're held at the highest standard of these studies. So we said, well, gosh, let's go find more fish that have higher C15 in them. Let's give them a modified diet that has higher C15 fish and let's see what happens. And we did it and they got better, you know, Monty Python. They were able to, we were seeing like anemia was completely alleviated. We saw cholesterol going down, inflammation going down. And, you know, it was changing fish, to be fair, but we saw as we increased their C15 levels through this modified diet, they got better. So then from there, we then moved C15, pure C15, into the lab and then spent the next, you know, 10 years, the past 10 years understanding from a pharmaceutical, you know, approach. How does the molecule work? Is it bioavailable? What levels do we need to achieve what's active? Is it relevant to humans? And so all of those studies have been undergoing it. most importantly, we've been doing the work, but now, you know, there are groups around the world who are publishing now over 100 peer-reviewed papers on C15, an average of one new paper coming out on C15 a week. It's such an exciting time. Are you kidding? Nope. So how do you explain what it is? So it's an essential fatty acid. Is that what it is? Saturated fatty acid? Right. So C15, it's an odd chain saturated fat. And, you know, we've been told our whole lives, all dietary saturated fats are bad. We now know 100% unequivocally different, not all saturated fats are equal. So these odd chain saturated fats, so if it has C15, it means it has 15 carbons. So if it has an odd number of carbons, especially C15, it protects against development of metabolic disease or type 2 diabetes and heart disease. If it's an even chain saturated fat, especially C16s, we're just talking about adding one carbon under the same molecule, increased risk of type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular. Like the exact opposite. I mean, it's mind-blowing what nature is doing with just adding one carbon. And we know this not because I'm saying it. It's because of the preponderance of data that have been published showing over and over again, meta-analyses of these large prospective cohort studies in populations throughout the world showing this over and over again. What I found so interesting is that without enough C15, your age is accelerated at a very fast pace. And you hear about all these other longevity medications or supplements, like I was saying to you, like metformin, repromycin, they say that also is another one. The other one I couldn't pronounce, astaxanthin. I think that was the other one. Yeah, I said it. Yeah, I couldn't remember how to say it, but I could never pronounce it. What is the difference between all these other supplements, medications, and C15? Right. So what's exciting is science, right? So we have all of a sudden we have before us where longevity and anti-aging is going from fiction or from science fiction to science-backed. And so we now know there are specific longevity regulating pathways. It's called the human longevity regulating pathway. And it details those pathways. Like if you tap into that, this pathway, then you, this will lead to longer lived mice and worms and dogs and humans. So we also know that there are these hallmarks of aging. So ways that, you know, define how we age at the cellular level. And if we can target these hallmarks, then again, we could live longer. So when we look at the traditional approach to longevity, enhancing candidates, rapamycin is at the top. And it's because it targets this almost the heart of the longevity regulating pathway, so much so that its job is to inhibit mTOR, which then enables longevity. mTOR stands for the mechanistic MT target of rapamycin. Right. Yeah. It's so important. I'll take your word for it. It's so important. Rapamycin is so important to longevity. It has its own pathway named in it. So that's rapamycin. rapamycin, we talk about metformin, this does the heart of the longevity pathway. So it activates AMPK. And by doing that, again, this is a huge longevity enabler. It has the added bonus of also this is the mechanism that, you know, this is how metformin also helps improve glucose control. So you kind of get a good one-two hit. So when you talk about these various longevity enhancers, They do provide a lot of promise because they're foreign molecules that tap into the longevity pathway and are showing a lot of promise. C15 comes in right out of nowhere and it's like, oh, it's in breast milk and butter. Right. It's basically found in dairy products, which is, you know, why it's kind of concerning to me is because we've been, well, dairy has been vilified, I feel, in the media. That's the first thing. people are drinking now oat milk instead of drinking regular milk. And if you look at the ingredients of oat milk, it is literally like having a Snickers bar. There's more sugar and shit in that in those oat milk. I don't care what brand it is. I don't care what it is. It's not a healthy option. But we've been now with marketing and branding and just like repetition, we're brainwashed to believe that oat milk is better than dairy, which is, I mean, even I even drink almond milk, even though I know even almonds are like stuff with all sorts of like poisons when they are, what do you call that stuff? Like, what do you call when they, when they, when they spray the almonds and all the, all the things. My point is we're, we're substituting dairy for all these other alternative milks when there's so many health benefits to dairy, right? That's right. Unless you're lactose intolerant. Right. Which a lot of people, you know, a lot of people are, but the whole point that you're making, Jen, is that, you know, we, that C15, while dolphins were getting their C15 from fish, our primary source, by far. Human's primary source, yes. By far is dairy fat, so much so that for a long time, C15 has been used as a biomarker of how much dairy fat we eat, even before we knew there were any benefits. Wow. So it's like how much dairy fat we eat dictates how much C15 we have. So now we know that because we've been decreasing our intake of C15, that our C15 levels have been decreasing. The same thing had been happening in the dolphins, right? Because they've been moving away from a C15-rich diet after the 1990s. What were they eating? So they had actually, so before they were eating eulicon fish, which is a super fatty fish, the eulicon, the fishery died out. And so they had to move to a less fatty fish. So at the same time, we were moving away from whole fat milks. They were moving away from their whole fat fish. And so we had a coinciding 50-year experiment between two long-lived large-brain mammalian populations. And what we started seeing is we started seeing this, you know, rise in aging-associated diseases in dolphins, including fatty liver disease, you know, non-alcoholic, which showed up in humans in 1980 for the, you know, the first cases and now present in one in three people globally. Wow. So we had these parallels, really interesting parallels happening. And that's where we learned that as our C15, one of the core roles of C15 is it helps to, it's a sturdy fatty acid that is essential in strengthening our cell membranes. So it literally strengthens our cell membranes against what's called lipid peroxidation. What we now know is that if our C15 levels get below like about 0.2% of total fatty acids, it's like, you know, bricks inside. If we don have enough bricks that cell membrane becomes fragile and it causes what you had talked about this new form of cell death called pharoptosis This was discovered by researchers at Columbia University back in 2012 There have been over 20,000 papers written on this new form of cell death. We know it accelerates aging. So that's the accelerated aging component. We know it accelerates the onset and the exacerbation of type 2 diabetes, heart disease, cognitive decline. what nobody's been able to figure out is where did it come from? Why all of a sudden are cells dying in this whole new way? And that's where the dolphins taught us that C15 deficiency in the diet causes varoptosis. And more importantly, it's fixable, right? We can actually reverse it just like vitamin C deficiency and scurvy and vitamin D deficiency and rickets. This is just, it's the nutritional deficiency of our generation, you know, of our time. You know, so if people are not eating dairy, does that mean that they're most likely deficient in C15? Yes, yes, yes. So probably like a big portion of the population now are just deficient and they may have a lot of these health concerns and not even really know the root cause because they're not even looking for it. That's right. And what we're seeing is, you know, we're seeing younger people getting more aging, getting aging associated associated diseases faster. We worked with Dr. Jeff Schwimmer and he's a pediatrics and he works a pediatrician. He works with and with fatty liver disease and he's been on the forefront of fatty liver disease in kids. And Jeff, you know, what he started seeing was like he started seeing not just fatty liver disease, but in general, kids are getting hypertension, high cholesterol. not just associated with diabetes, like they're getting them early and earlier. And he was seeing that kids are getting diseases of their grandparents before their parents. So when you ask Jeff, are kids aging faster? I mean, you can't even finish the sentence. Really? Absolutely. Our children are aging faster than they should. And again, getting back to this, we've been moving kids and young adults away from whole fat milks. And the plant-based milks have no C15 in them. Of course not. So then where else would you even get C15 if you're not getting it from high fat dairy products? Are you even able, by the way, before you even tell me that, can you get C15 from 2% milk or nonfat milk? That's a good question. So whole fat milk has, if we, so in the 1950s, we drank two cups of whole fat milk per day as Americans. And so we were able to get the amount between 100 to 300 milligrams of C15 per day. Today, the average American drinks about a quarter cup of what would be equal to whole fat milk. But if you drink nonfat milk, no C15. And if you drink low fat milk, it has half the amount of C15 as whole fat. And if you're drinking whole fat milk from cows that are fed corn versus grass, that corn fed, the milk from corn-fed cows has 50% less C15 in it than grass-fed. So we've got changes in agri. We have so many things that have been driving away and decreasing our exposure, healthy exposure to C15. Oh my gosh. So then what other, okay, now you can answer the other part. So where else can someone find C15 if it's not in high-fat dairy products? So that by far, this is how we're able to successfully get up and over was now being increasingly defined, not just by us, as C15 deficiency. So you've got to get up and over that 0.2% on the population, global population is sitting, the average is 0.2%. So we're on average sitting right at that precipice of cellular fragility. So the whole curve has shifted. If you look at C15 in mom's breast milk from the 1970s and 1980s compared to now, it's about half of what it used to be. So even from birth, our babies are getting about half the amount of C15. Because they're not drinking milk. That's right. So because mom needs to get enough C15 to have it in her milk to give it to her baby. It's the ripple effect of what's happening. That's why you were saying earlier why the younger generation is getting all of these very aging diseases more than their own parents because at least the parents were drinking milk because it wasn't villainized as much. That is extremely interesting. Yeah. And again, what's promising about it is there's so much data in front of us now. You just can't ignore it. Yeah. So we really need ability to be able to take a good look at this data. remove our blinders on saturated fats and say, yes, there are differences. And how do we get the saturated, the good, healthy, saturated fats back into our diets through good agricultural practices, healthy, you know, wholesome milk in our younger years. And then now what the Navy funded us to do was to say, okay, how do you in your older years, you know, as we get out of our and move up, how do we get pure C15 delivered absent of the pro-inflammatory saturated fats and dairy fat to something that we could help to actually optimize our C15 levels to then lean into the longevity space? So we can do both. Let's fix deficiencies. Right. So you were able to figure out a way to kind of extract the C15 molecule from the the dairy, the saturated fat, let's just say the dairy fat. If you're someone who is lactose intolerant or can't eat the butters and the whole milk or whatever, you can still optimize by taking like fatty 15. That's right. And that's why it was developed. So we use a plant-based C14 and we add a carbon onto it so that, and our approach was that we were developing this to see if we could have it as a treatment for fatty liver disease. We were thinking about this from a pharmaceutical perspective. And so the robustness of all the data that we would need to do preparing this to help treat a disease, that was the first five years of work. It was at that level of research. Once we realized it was meeting the criteria of essential, which means that we need certain levels of it in our body in order to just stay healthy, like to not get sick, then and that the our bodies don't make enough of it. Therefore, we have to get it from our diet that then tipped it from this isn't a pharmaceutical. This isn't a drug. This is an essential nutrient, a foundational nutrient we all need. This can't be via prescription. This needs to be, you know, more accessible to the world. Can I ask you a stupid question? I mean, we do it anyway, but like, So hopefully you'll be okay with it. But I mean, maybe you've been asked this before, but like how is C15 different than like omega-3? Right. Okay. That's a super good question. So because if we talk about this discovery of C15 and as an emerging essential fatty acid, that it would be like saying, you know, we discovered vitamin E. Right. And how does that compare to vitamin A? So the omega-3s, omega-6s, they are essential fatty acids. And so they are also essential. And they play a role in helping to keep our cell membrane because they have these double bonds in them, which are like hinges in the structure. Their job is to help make our cell membranes more flexible. C15's job, because it has no double bonds, it's just a super sturdy 15-carbon chain, its job is to keep our cell membranes stable. So it's like a yin and yang where they work together, where we need both flexibility and stability in ourselves. So when we focused, leaned in hard on just omega-3s and then we actively took C15 out of our diet, then that created an imbalance in what we need for ourselves. Because I think that some people who would be listening would be, that's why I asked the question. Because it sounds like when you say fatty 15 or, you know, an essential fatty molecule acid, whatever it is, you automatically think, well, I take omega-3s because that's, again, something that's been drilled into our brains, right? Like there are certain things that over time we've been conditioned to think that are essential, right? Like vitamin D is essential now. Omega-3 is essential now. So basically, those are the two-year-old. Now you're hearing a lot about creatine as a supplement to take. But what I've noticed is there's so many things that just because it's not popular or people by the masses don't know about it, it doesn't mean it's not essential. And in fact, a lot of times, they're just as if not more important. And so what I even noticed is people take their blood tests and then they think, okay, I'm going to take these supplements. And then they do that for the next 20 years of their life. Right. Right? And so they're probably not even deficient in those things anymore. And then they get all of these different diseases or ailments or problems, and they don't even know why because they don't even know what to look for. Right. So, like, is there even a blood test? Is there somewhere that people can be like, hey, can you check my C15 levels? Can people even do that? They can. And this is such an important question, and it really gets to the heart, right, of being able to use science, that, you know, high-quality science to get us to where we are today. and then be able to transition that into the clinical practitioner space, right? So it's like even for ourselves to take care of our own health and have ownership of it, that you can measure C15 levels. And so we worked with Genova. And so it's been included as part of their NutraVal panel for a long time. So I was talking with Dr. Mark Hyman, and we were on a podcast. And I was like, yeah, it's on the NutraVal. He's like, what? And so he went back. It was about function health. He was probably like, oh, why are we not testing for this? We need to get them to do that. So he went back and he looked at, and he's like, I cannot believe. He's like, so it's been collected all along. He's like, I went back and looked. I cannot believe how many of my patients are low in C15. Nobody's known to look at it. Right. So there's actually been a good number of people who have already have test results on C15. So if you had a fatty acid panel done, they don't all include it. We're trying to make sure that they are all including C15 in that panel. But for folks like Genova who do include it, they're able to measure it. We worked with them. They developed an at-home blood spot test. Yeah. So you can measure C15 that way too because we think that's important. This is not just saying, hey, totally cold dolphin discovery. Take the pills. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's more, it's like that what has, what's been so important about this is, you know, we brought on Dr. Nick Shork from, he has been head of NIH's longevity consortium for over 20 years, Jen. So he's seen every longevity nutrient or even molecule under the sun. And Nick said, I am watching the preponderance of data that are supporting C15, like from all different angles, cell-based studies, animal studies, human studies. He's like, I have never seen a molecule have more support for its core role in supporting longevity than C15. And he specifically said, this is going to be a geroprotector. I was like, great. What's a geroprotector? Yeah, I was going to ask you the same question. I was embarrassed. You seem real excited. But it was and so he said, you know, geroprotector is a molecule that can effectively slow our biological aging rate to stem the onset of the diseases that kill us. So it's not about you just tap into a mechanism of longevity. If you're a geroprotector, you're going to have meaningful benefits within months. And he's like, this is the holy grail we're looking for. Because to do a clinical trial where you don't feel or see any benefits and you just wait and see if you live longer is just not going to be done. No, exactly. But with C15, he's like, this is checking off all the boxes of a geroprotector. And that's why when we brought the supplement, you know, Fatty 15 to the world, again, funded by the Office of Naval Research to do so, then it's because it's intended to improve the strength of our cells that then translates into improved health and wellness within weeks to months. So we have 70% of our customers, and this is a survey of over 6,000 people, 70% report feeling better within 16 weeks. Bless you. Thank you. It stops sneezing. It's amazing. It does not stop sneezing. Yeah, it's a panacea for everything, actually. It is not a panacea. Yeah. And what's most importantly is with regard to health, you know, then people go to their doctor. And when they go to their doctor, their doctor is like, what are you doing? And they say, I started fatty 15. And it's those benefits. So we encourage people, start on fatty 15. Get your C15 levels if you can. See where you're at on the spectrum. Are you deficient? So your goal is to not be deficient. Or are you in the middle? And now you want to optimize to like Sardinians have C15 levels that are two to three times higher than us. So it's like, how do we optimize to get to Sardinian level? Is it because they're drinking a lot of full fat? I bet you Europeans in general, because they don't have the same nonsense over there with the food. When you go and get a latte or you get coffee, people are drinking whole milk there. They're not asking for the oat milk and this macadamia and cashew milk. I mean, this is very much like a North American thing. That's right. But wait, so because I want to ask you where else you can get C15 because I know that we kind of jumped that. Yeah. But while we're still talking about this, I wanted you to tell us besides the things that we talked about, which is diabetes and, you know, what you're saying about diabetes, of course, fatty liver disease, blood insulin, you know, insulin levels. What are some other symptoms or things people can look for that maybe that C15 can help with and that it helps with, like that you know that you've researched? Right. So it's the best way is via the blood tests, right? So the blood tests that there's specific things you can look for to actually see signs of cellular fragility. And the way that we look to see are cells fragile because our C15 levels are low. So first, test your C15 levels if you can, but not everybody has access to that. So then second is when you get, you can get, it's standard to get a red blood cell panel. And that's where they usually look for signs of anemia, right? And so if you have a low hemoglobin, an increased amount of what's called red blood cell distribution width or RDW, that means that your red blood cell size is, there's a lot of variability, which means the cells aren't stable. So the cells are dying too fast. You're needing to make new ones. and that creates a lot of different sized red blood cells. RDW has come out as one of the strongest predictors of biological age. So it feeds into what's called age excel pheno, which is now a gold standard measurement of our biological age. And so RDW is important, not just for cellular stability, that stability then marker becomes a marker for how old we are biologically. So we need those stable cells. So RDW. When we get to then this ferroptosis, so if you're progressing to where C15 deficiency is leading to this new form of cell death, then your blood results will show up high ferritin levels. So hyperferritinemia would be something we see a lot of physicians light up when they hear they're like, oh my God, I have a solution for why I'm seeing this in so many patients. I'm seeing this combination. I haven't known what it was about. But how does it show? If I don't know all the science, stuff. And for me, just like a layman person, like talk to me like I'm like 11 or 10. Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. So we're going to do two levels. We're going to do adult going to their doctors and they get their blood results back. So you're going to see high cholesterol, chronic inflammation, signs of insulin resistance. You might see higher glucose levels, elevated liver enzyme levels. So called ALT and AST. So these are standard things that your doctor is going to send you back and be like, uh. And this can help. C-15 can help with all of it. It is, if it is part of this whole issue with regard to accelerated aging. Yeah, the aging part. So also because I heard for skin, I have eczema. I know that that's a big thing as well. Can you talk about how it can even help with skin issues? Because to me, like I have, I get eczema dermatitis like atopic dermatitis it's a real problem and I can't control it like I do all the things right and yet it still flares up and it there's no people are like sorry you got to put some more cortisone on your arm right you know I have it actually right now over here I like you pulling it off pretty well Thank you Thank you very much I covering it like this Yeah. So I have also, I also have atopic dermatitis and it's from if I eat any raw fruits, vegetables or nuts, that it triggers an allergic response in my skin. So I don't, which is like anything healthy. So I make a joke in the book that I have a diet of like a six-year-old birthday party. I was going to say, like you're seeing pizza and fries all day? Yeah, yeah. And you're glowing. So, yeah, you have to find creative ways. And milkshakes, which helps you for your C15. Yeah, there you go. There you go. All right. It's a benefit. So 60-year-old birthday party will be my next diet. Your next diet bug will be mine. That's right. Yeah. So with regard to when we ran C15, so we look at how does C15 work. It's called these mechanisms of action. And so we talked about, you know, how it strengthens cells. it also inhibits mTOR, activates AMPK. So those other things we talked about, rapid mysomyopathy. So it's called a pleiotropic molecule, which is just a fancy way of just saying it gets around. So it does a lot of things. It's a very slutty molecule. Yeah, exactly. Slutty molecule. That will be the title of the podcast. That's going to be the thumbnail, actually. Let's write that down. So it does a lot of things. which an essential nutrient should. One of those things is it helps to inhibit what's called JAKSTAT. So it's a JAKSTAT inhibitor. This is the mechanism that's being used for a lot of drugs that are being used for things like eczema and for atopic dermatitis and for psoriasis. So when we were doing those early screening of C15 back when we were assessing it for a drug, one of the first things you do is say, okay, what are its different mechanisms of action? And that is where it revealed that it had this like anti-allergy, anti-autoimmune disease activities. So to be clear, the supplement is not to treat or cure any diseases. But really interesting that, you know, as we saw this dose response effect, that the higher the C15 went, which we can achieve in our bodies, the stronger activity it had against these pro-inflammatory cytokines that cause what you and I feel with regard to experience with eczema. So it calms things down. It's for me, it's helped to calm. It doesn't get rid of it. I can't go eat strawberries and have a great day. But it can improve it slightly or it calms it down. If there's lemon juice snuck into my cocktail, then I don't have a bad day. Wow, exactly. Wow. So it takes the edge off of it. And again, it kind of feeds into the question that keeps coming up is we see a lot of these conditions have been increasing in the last couple of generations. And so the question we're feeding is, again, if a lot of us are sitting on C15 deficiencies, is that actually increasing our susceptibility to various conditions that C15 was meant to be in our tissues to just help keep things balanced, like keep our immune system from going out of whack or glucose metabolism and everything else? I want to take a quick break to talk about something I genuinely think is a game changer for healthy aging, and that's fatty 15. Here's what you need to know. Scientists discovered the first new essential fatty acid in over 90 years. It's called C15, and it's a big deal. When your cells don't have enough C15, they become fragile and they age faster. And when your cells age, your body ages. Full stop. As many as one in three people worldwide may have low C15 levels, a condition called cellular fragility syndrome, and most of them have no idea. Fatty15 co-founder Dr. Stephanie Van Watson discovered C15 while working with the U.S. Navy studying aging dolphins. Based on over 100 studies, we now know C15 is a key nutrient for slowing biological aging at the cellular level. And fatty 15 has three times more cellular benefits than omega-3 or fish oil. By the way, 72% of fatty 15 customers report seeing or feeling benefits within 16 weeks. Things like deeper sleep, improved energy, and healthier hair, skin, and nails. It's vegan-friendly, free of allergens and preservatives, and clinically proven to raise C15 levels. So if you care about your age, and I know you do, this is worth your attention. Go to www.fatty15.com slash habits and use code habits at checkout to get an additional 15% off their 90-day starter kit. That's fatty15.com slash habits, code habits. And you can find the link in the show notes. Now let's get back to the episode. I've got two questions. So comparatively to, let's say, compare it to like a metformin, which one is more effective, C15 or metformin for blunting blood sugar? Like if you had to, I mean, I know that you are an expert in C15, I understand, but you've seen tons of data, tons of peer, you know, papers and research. Where is the research strongest? I on C15. No, in general, for for blunting blood sugar to being a longevity molecule that is the king of all longevity molecules. Where would you say C15 lies? So if I spoke for Nick, because I'm slightly biased. So Nick, you know, that's where we get a lot of our confidence is really coming from, you know, from experts in the field. And so, you know, Nick spoke to community of his peers in Copenhagen two years ago, and it was the largest anti-aging conference in Copenhagen. And he presented C15 and he showed the data of why C15 has the most support as a longevity enhancing nutrient, a.k.a. a geroprotector, than any other molecule that he has seen, bar none. And he stood there, you know, unapologetic and started out the talk we have it on. It's on YouTube. But, you know, you can provide a link to it. Yeah. What's it called? I don't know what it's titled, but it's a Nick Schork. What's the title of the talk? ARDD, Anti-Aging Research for the Development of Drugs. Oh, gosh. ARDD. But we'll provide you the link to the video. I'd be curious to see it myself. The other one I forgot to ask you about is NAD. Oh, yeah. That's a good one. I mean, NAD is like the hottest thing. It's been hot for a couple of years now, two, three years, but it's climbing in its popularity. Everyone's injecting themselves with NAD. Like, by the way, and I don't know if this is because my algorithm, but now it's like every second reel is like, yeah, you know, I'm taking my injection of NAD and like no one can live without it anymore. Because I know that your NAD depletes after a certain age and then every year it keeps on depleting. And that's what I've been taught and told many times that that's kind of the anti-aging panacea. What is your take on that compared to C15? So NAD sets. So if you look at this longevity regulating pathway, right? And so it's a super complicated, fancy looking pathway. You put AMPK activation is in the middle of it. mTOR inhibition is like up here. NAD is right after AMPK. So it's part of the longevity regulating pathway. AMPK can help upregulate NAD. And by doing so, it can help extend longevity. So again, all of the players in the longevity space are there for a good reason, and it's because they're tapping into these important pathways. So NAD, as far as being able to under it, so it makes sense of why it's there. And so in the clinical trials, continue with it. And I do think it's encouraging. It's less about it being essential because it's something that our bodies make. But then to your point, as we get older, the levels decline. And so to be able to kind of hack into that and be able to get our levels back up is a good thing. Right. So there's precursors like NR and NMN and all these other things. Right. But I've also been, I think that NR as much as the, it's my opinion, but NR is a better precursor than NMN for the size of the molecule and all these other things. That's from what I've, all the research I've seen. But I wanted to ask you because you've like deep dived on, of course, C15 and that's what you do for a living. And you've probably seen a ton of data on a lot of things. And there's a lot of noise out there. So like if you had to create your, you know, the your top longevity cocktail and it could be everything, anything and everything that, you know, exercise, of course, is a piece of it. Nutrition. What would you put in that cocktail to live to live a healthy, long life? Not just long, but healthy and and good. Right. And it's a good question because when we first came out with the book, The Longevity Nutrient, a lot of people, Jen, especially women, they're like, I don't want longevity. I want health. But if I can live a long time and be healthy, then I'll take that. It's just kind of sometimes a very different mindset. Right, just if you can live to 100 but be very, you know, incapacitated, you know, completely like – No, thank you. That's not exactly a quality. I think how to live long and with a quality life is the goal, right? Yeah, yeah. So I'm going to sound real boring on this one. But I am a true, true believer in, you know, absolutely, like you said, exercise. And that includes, you know, not just aerobic but resistance training. We're all understanding that now, that to be able to be social, socialization is huge. Keeping our hearing, we're now understanding that when we lose our hearing and if you do not get hearing aids, that that decreased stimulation to the brain increases the risk of the earlier onset of dementias. And so, repeated studies are showing this. And, you know, we all end up losing, a lot of us end up losing our hearing over time. And it ends up that we really need that stimulation within our brain. It also, as we start losing our hearing, we become less social. And then as you're not interacting and being, you know, social with people, we know that decreases longevity and leads to depression, which again, shortens longevity. So socialization, hearing, exercise, sleep is huge. And if we don't, it's not just how much you sleep because there are some people who sleep too much. So if you sleep too much or you sleep too little, there's this Goldilocks zone in the middle. Not only do you need to sleep enough, that quality of sleep has got to be good. By the way, in everything, your social circle has to be quality. Your food has to be quality. Your sleep has to be quality. I think it's a kind of a given, right? Yeah. But just because it's there, just because it's available or you're doing it, doesn't mean it's the best quality. You're going to get the best results, basically. Exactly. And then, of course, C15 is in my stack, like 100%. I never took supplements before this. Really? Yeah. I'm not a good pill taker, and so I just didn't do supplements. Is that why you started the gummy? I need a plan. So these capsules are super tiny. Tiny. Tiny. I can't believe how small they are. I was like, where are they? They're like little microbes. They're like little bees, like little buds. Yeah, which makes it really easy. So like 99% of our customers report that Fatty 15 is part of their daily routine at six weeks, like at two weeks and at six weeks. So it's an easy habit that sticks. And then they stay. So we have over a 95% retention rate on it because people are feeling the benefits. We have 70% of our customers report feeling deeper sleep, calmer mood, better energy within 16 weeks. And we like calling those delights and surprises. This is really about the long-term benefits that the delights and surprises are coming. We've recently discovered C15 has, again, about being a slutty molecule, that it also has promiscuous. We'll go with that. Yeah, I like that's a better word. Nice euphemism over there. So that it also inhibits two enzymes, one called MAOB and the other one called MALB and the other called FAH. And by having those two activities, it helps increase dopamine levels and endocannabinoid levels. So by helping to boost dopamine and the effects of cannabis, right, endocannabinoids, that is explaining why people are like, oh, I'm sleeping better. I'm feeling better. Really? So the retention rate is really high because we have the added benefit of the gift the Dolphins gave us, which was you actually feel better for a lot of people within a few weeks. So people make it part of their routine. So for me, it's a non-negotiable and not because I'm co-CEO of the company. It's because it's genuinely helping me feel better. Right. So if it helps sleep a little bit or a lot of it, depending, do you recommend people taking it at night or in the morning? Right. So for me, I take the capsules in the morning and I still get the sleep benefits, which is interesting. We do have customers that say they'll take one in the morning and then they'll take one at night. Or if they shift it to the night for the ones that really need that sleep benefit, that it's beneficial. So, and now that we have the gummies coming out, you know, I'll take a capsule of mine. Some gummies at night. You can take, you can double, you can like double stack it. Okay. I like that. Okay. I'm not finished because I have a lot of other questions that we haven't, we kind of like went through, but we kind of jumped over. Where else can you get C15 if it's not in dairy? Right. So dairy is our primary source. That's how we get up and over not being deficient. However, there are other things we can do. Okay. In addition to supplementation to get everything we can do to help improve. So we know that if we exercise, it increases our C15 levels. We think that's because when you exercise, C15 is stored in your tissues. So as you exercise, it's helping to release C15 from your tissues and get it in circulation. Another added benefit for exercising. I mean, every day there's like another thing that you get from exercise. A little C15 boost in your blood. I love that. So that's good. Fiber. So there's a great study that was done showing that it was a great series of studies. And what they showed was that how is fiber helping liver health? And so they did a whole series of studies in mice and they showed that. Again with the mice. I know, I know. And this is where it is. This one where it's helpful. Yeah, okay. So where when you eat fiber, inside of fiber is a molecule called inulin. So not insulin, but inulin. Inulin is then used by specific microbes in our gut to make C15. So our microbes can produce some levels of C15, which explain that even people who eat no dairy, nobody has zero C15 levels. It's just about, it's essential because you need a specific amount. You have to get enough from our diet. But I'm eating fiber. So I have high quality cheeses, pecorino is what comes from Sardinia. So high C15 cheeses, Pecorino. So sorry not to interrupt you, but I'm going to. Yeah, please do. So does Pecorino have the highest C15 content? Some of the highest I've seen. Really? Yeah. What other cheeses? I love Pecorino. That's good to know. Yeah. So like hard cheeses. And those are specifically because they're from Sardinia. These are grass-fed sheep. I believe the sheep's cheese. So grass-fed for sure. You said that earlier. And now the specific places where the highest C15 that you've seen is Pecorino cheese. Let's see, Swiss cheese. And then it just kind of becomes a mix of cheeses. They're kind of equal. The more concentrated and hard the cheese is, probably the more. But fiber is another place? So fiber. So then our bodies can make fiber, exercise, eating the high quality cheeses. And then there actually a study that just came out two months ago that showed that people who ate more cheese specifically of all the dairy products had a lower risk of developing dementia This is the largest study of its kind of had over 27 people and it followed them over 17 years And again it association but the timing right It's like, do they start by having, um, and they start by having a certain dietary change and do they see that outcome over time? So it's interesting that, you know, there are these parallels. So, you know, again, we've just, it's been too absolute. It's been too, don't eat their whole fat dairy products. There's just differentiation. Some of that differentiation may be from which foods have the most C15 in them. You know, I also, as you're talking about this, do you have a patent? Because like, can't people just like replicate this? Like, how do people know? Like, now, like you would think with, with a hundred now peer reviewed studies, that's a lot that, you know, there's a mazillion supplement companies out there, right? Like what's to say that like tomorrow I can just go and be like, you know what? I know all about this and I'm going to create a pill and put some C15 in it and call it a day. Can't people do that all day? So they can't because, and it's the Navy. So because the Navy made this discovery, so I made the discovery while I was at the Navy. So the patent is around the use of C15 to be able to have these benefits. And there was a time where I was like, gosh, feel about this. This is for to improve global health. It's a patent. And then I feel really good about, and this is why, is that when we have seen competitors come to the market and they put their C15 supplement out, Jen, we go and test it. There's either no C15 in it at all or the C15 in it, the quality is terrible. I talk about this a lot actually. So the patents are actually protecting the highest quality and not, it's preventing or allowing us to be able to at least try to keep this massive number of, you know, it's like whack-a-mole out there. Well, I talk a lot on social media and I talk a lot about this in just all my shows because I feel like because it is the wild, wild west, you have no clue what you're getting online. You have no clue. And I've even tested multiple things and was really shocked at the limited amount of whatever that ingredient is that they're selling as like the ingredient. And because you just, because people don't know. And that people think if it has a lot of reviews on Amazon, oh, then it must be a good thing. You can buy reviews. You can do all sorts of wacky things online. So like really knowing where you're getting a, this is for everybody listening, know and research where you're getting everything from because it is dangerous out there you can probably just or at the very best you're just having like a bunch of dust or like flour or whatever right and that's been yeah absolutely go ahead no it's very that's why it's very important but that's why i wanted to know like because you you have to have some kind of restrictions around what people can do with what so they don't just go out there and make and create a bunch of baloney, basically. Yeah, it was, I mean, maybe I'm just super naive. I never would have thought that there'd be a product that said, this is what, and this is all, it has this, it has C15 in it. And you believe it. And it had none in it. But that's because people don't expect that. It's so naive. And now it's like, so it is, it's incredibly disappointing. It makes me glad there are patents to project to say, like, this one, and therefore, and then we're participating in programs like Supco. They do measure on 26 different levels of quality. And so we have a Supco score. So it was 963, well, no, in a couple weeks, 9.88, of out of 10, which is in the excellent category. That's amazing. The ability to have these platforms so that, exactly like you're saying, that we need as consumers, we need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff and because it's like you said it's not only what's not in there it's what is what is so anyway i'm glad they're out there we're obviously thrilled to be participating in the programs because it gives us a chance to say not just is this great science and the reason why it works is because of the quality of the ingredient that's in it and all the science that's been dedicated to but we're also going to uphold we do third-party validation for right for its quality We had an independent group assess that it was generally recognized as safe for one year and up. And we even had an independent team come in, a scientist come in, evaluate our claims and determine and reconfirm that they're based on competent and reliable scientific evidence called CARS. So it's just like for us, it's just so important to be able to say, how do we separate ourselves from all this noise? There are ways to do it. So, you know, we're owning that. That's really good. Okay, so let's get to the dolphins again, because I know I kind of skipped through that a little bit and have more questions about the dolphins, if you don't mind. Do you mind if I keep you here another few minutes? Yeah, not at all. So you're going to talk about how you don't like dolphins at all? No, I love dolphins. Who doesn't like a dolphin? I mean, they're such a beautiful animal. But what I was going to say is where did they find, when you were looking at all these dolphins, and you said some had higher C15 than others, they don't eat cheese, and they're not eating those fatty fishes like the Yukon fish that you were mentioning earlier. Where were they getting the ones that had the higher C15? Did they have a higher C15 because of their genetics or because in their muscles it was releasing faster, like you were saying? Yeah. Did they eat more fiber? How were they higher in C15 than the other dolphins? Yeah. So what happened is when the Yulikon went away, then the Navy went to five different types of fish. So within that, so then they were getting, you know, herring and capelin and squid and mackerel. So what we found was, and then based upon preferences of the dolphins, they would get more of one versus another. And so we kind of had, even though we think fish are fish, they're not. And that some of the fish called capelin, they're these tiny little fish, which are great. And they loved them, but they ended up being like the chips of the sea, right? It's like they had no C15 in them. Really? Yeah, so the way it differentiated between some dolphins that were getting more versus not, which is a great question, was based upon which dolphins were getting more of the mackerel and herring that had higher levels of C15 versus the percentage of their diet that was getting. Oh, interesting. A lot of capelin and squid, for example, had no C15 in it. So mackerel and herring have a higher C15 than other fish. Yeah, and mullet, you know, they're really popular fish. Yeah, I've never heard of mullet in my life. More than a haircut. More than a haircut. Yeah, I was going to say, except those weird haircuts, you know, but other than that, yeah. Yeah, some mullet. Yeah, some mullet fish. Okay, I'm not going to plan on eating that. So does tuna and salmon, do they have C15? They have C15 in them. Salmon has a decent amount in salmon. And when we tested the fish, it's in the highest levels in the skin and the heads of the fish. So I think that's why it ends up for us not being, there have been studies saying, can C15, you know, we know C15 is a biomarker of dairy fat. Could it be a biomarker of fish? Because it is in our fish and it's not strong at all. And I think it depends on what type of fish you're eating. And, you know, if you're Scandinavian or Norwegian, you might be eating the skin and heads of fatty fish. So if it's anchovies and sardines and then Asian cultures, you know, used to traditionally like the person of honor at the table would get the head of the fish. Little did they know it was because they were getting, they wanted to get some anti-aging C15. Exactly. Okay, I have another question about C15. So if it's so good for anti-aging and kind of inhibiting the acceleration of your age, why are beauty products not using it yet? Are you going to be making beauty products? Because they always jump on every bandwagon. They put everything in, like, is it top, can it be used topically? Like if I opened up a supplement of fatty 15 and just put it on my face with that. Let us know how it goes. I've done that with creatine to see if that would help. I mean, I don't know. I made a nice mask. I think that's about it, you know, but I was wondering, are there other ways that people, you know, can other industry, because I would think it is such a, like, is that like a product line that you would make? Yeah, it could be. It could be. Or kids. I know you're coming up with kid stuff, right? Because I couldn't believe, like you were saying, how many kids are not getting enough of this very essential, what do you call it, molecule because their parents aren't drinking or eating it. That's crazy. And I don't know if you remember, but like when our son, when Ben turned two, we got the paper sheet of paper that said, OK, it's time to move your kid off of whole fat milk. And it was like, it's not like he was overweight or he had diabetes. Like so. So, you know, we kind of it was before all of this was happening. But it's like that has just so why? Why? Why are we taking? I was actually going to ask you, you know, and by the way, I don't know if you like I do notice that whenever you take away, you go from like an alternative, like, you know, the whole thing with like, remember snack wells, like, you know, like, everything has its like trend, like low fat, hot, you know, this thing, that thing, like, whenever you take out one thing and you substitute it, it's never good for you. That's right. Right. So why do people even do that? I don't even know. It's whole milk. The people I know who drink whole milk, they are very lean, they're thin, they're, they are healthy. there's a crazy psychology around i'm going to get fat if i have these whole whole milks and whole foods it's a really it's a i know you're not a psychologist i'll i'll i'll take that up with somebody else but i just find it interesting how sometimes like leaving something in its natural state and using it for what it's utilized for it's the best way to do it yeah i completely agree and at some point it'll kick in right we just need to keep everything balanced it's just we just need like you said, don't do these extremes where you're taking one thing out and replacing. It's just, it's a balance. I know. All it is, is just keeping, and exercise. And exercise. It's like those two things. P.S., and exercise. Is there, I want to ask you one more. I didn't really, we didn't really touch about, but we talked a little bit, but is there anything in this book that is like, because we hear so much about longevity. Right. Is there any other tidbit that you can share that maybe we haven't heard 400,000 times. I like because I'm always looking for like that little nugget that might be a little unique. Right. By the way, this is why I wanted to talk to you about C15 because I have never heard about it. I wanted to kind of tell that to people because we hear about the same things ad nauseum and whenever there's something that has been a little bit less covered, I want to bring it to the ethos or like my audience at least. So what else can you share? that's a little bit more unique than what we've all heard. Right. So this goes over, you know, obviously the book, the focus of it is on, is to increase awareness of exactly that, of C-15. It goes through the dolphin discovery story. It goes through the mechanisms. Like how do we, so it does, you know, something that's new is going through what a geroprotector is. So like how do we differentiate, right, between, sure, it taps into this, here are the, you know, 12 hallmarks of aging, here are the mechanisms of action. So those and they're still in there, but it's reframing to say then what are the things that we should really be paying attention to? And it's the ones that meet the criteria of a geroprotector. And so this is a list that, you know, every consumer could actually work their way through and say, gosh, is there evidence that this molecule does? And it doesn't it doesn't have to be the deep science part. It's just like, wow, is it actually going to help change my cholesterol, glucose? You know, like things that I care about. Right. We have so many people with comorbidities that they have multiple diseases at the same time because of aging. So it's like something that then, again, a Gero protector, right? The whole name is not a very sexy name, but it's factual. So it protects us from aging. So by doing that, it can help address these multiple components that lead to having these multiple chronic conditions. So it's a new way to challenge interventions. and to say like how we should be thinking about it isn't just, you know, sexy longevity science. Like, ooh, here's something cool because it taps into this pathway and it helps a worm, which is still exciting. But is it going to make me feel better? You know, and kind of you made a really good point of I've been taking this supplement for 10 years. Why? Yeah, well, I think that's majority of people, right? Like why? unless you actually ask the question or hear someone say, yeah, why? That's why, like what I just did, and I'm going to do my blood panel again, but I just did one like a couple months ago, three months ago, and all the things that I've been taking has been like nonsense because I've been just like, you know, vitamin D is a great example because I thought, okay, I was deficient in vitamin D 10 years ago, so I kept on taking it, and guess what? Now I'm over vitamin D. Like I have too much, the level is too high. and so that's what I'm saying like just because you hear it in the ethos does not make it true for you particular and so that's why I'm urging I urge everyone to like a get their levels checked regularly and see where you are and then base where you want like kind of reverse engineer like do you feel better is that improved because you're taking this not that so if you guys have not you know checked your c15 I would urge you to do it because that could be the reason why you're having an ailment that you never even like connected the dots to. Yeah, that's right. And so that's the whole purpose of behind it is it's data driven, you know, nutrition, and you can personalize it. So and you can see, do my levels go up? Do I, did I move from deficient to sufficient? Did I move from sufficient to optimal? And most importantly, am I seeing or feeling benefits? Right. So give yourself six months. And then if it's like, it's not really doing anything for me on my blood work or how I'm feeling. You don't need to take C15, right? It's just like we really challenge people to, you know, use the data to drive to say, is this the right thing for you? And what we're finding is in most cases, you know, again, this 95% retention rate, people are like, this has changed my life. Yeah. I've had a lot of my friends say really positive things. It's helped them a lot. And like, I think that you're like, to your point, I think once you start taking it, I think that what people have noticed is a real improvement. Yeah. Yeah. And then when they go off of it. So sometimes they're like, I'm not sure if it's helping me. And then they're like, and then I went off of it. And I was like, oh, yeah, that was helping me. I was helping me sleep. So I'm back on it. So that's another test. Right. And so we really encourage people to like, Taylor, it's good for you. Yeah. You know, I love the fact that this is new to me anyway. Maybe it's not new to everybody, but it's new to me. And so thank you for being on my show. and thank you for telling me and talking to me about this. Is there anything else I haven't asked you that I'm missing in dolphins or like you or besides your crazy resume of badassery? Is there anything else that we can talk about and tell people? I don't know how many badass nurses or nerds there are out there. A lot of badass nurses. I know. That's true. I'm going to check my notes and double-check my side. For me, Jen, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. Pleasure is mine, honestly. This is a movement. The dolphins gave us a true gift, right? And again, this whole new perspective to be able to look at things, 10 years, over 100 peer-reviewed studies since then, is now lighting and something we can no longer ignore. We have an opportunity to help truly improve, truly improve global health. And we aren't alone anymore. Like, you know, it's now it's just we have a giant community of scientists and doctors and and, you know, moms and dads and kids. Like, it's just it's it's the movement is on. You're now part of it. So thank you. And it's just been a gift. I appreciate the I appreciate this because, like I said, I always I was telling you earlier, I always look for ways to sneak health into my children because if I tell them it's healthy, number one, they'll do the opposite because they're kids and they all never believe anything I say. So I'll just tell them it's junk. And now that you're making a gummy for kids, it's a great little sneaky way to kind of get a very essential molecule into them, which then helps them. Because now I didn't even know the amount of kids that are actually deficient. So you just did me a favor. So thank you. Thank you. This has been a pleasure. No, pleasure is all mine, guys. So check out Fatty15. Check out Stephanie. She is, I'm telling you, just deep dive and you'll be super impressed like me. So anyway, thank you for being with me today. Thanks, Jennifer. Okay, bye.