#395: Brain Fog, Anger, Detox Secrets & The Truth About Diet Sodas | Unlocking LIVER Longevity With Siggi Clavien

Welcome to Longevity. I'm your host, Natalie Knidham. I'm a nutritionist, a human potential and epigenetic coach, and I created this podcast to bring you the latest ways to take control of your health and longevity. We cover it all, from new technology and ancestral health practices to personalized interventions and a very special interest of mine, peptides and bioregulators. Enjoy the show. Hi, I'm Natalie Knidham, your host. My guest today is Siggy Klavin, biotech innovator, founder of Deliverance and the man who somehow made liver health emotional, fascinating, and weirdly funny. Siggy shares how losing his mentor and godfather to cirrhosis and liver cancer pushed him to devote his life to preventing what took theirs. We unpack why brain fog is often the first symptom of fatty liver disease, how anger literally lives in the liver, and why your deodorant and cleaning sprays might be doing more harm than you think. Plus, we get into menopause hormone therapy and that staggering research showing how alcohol multiplies breast cancer risk for women, even on HRT. Now, if you want to get your hands on some deliverance, you can go to loveyourliver.com slash nat, code NAT for 5% off your purchase, and it will stack off of the subscription price. Now, I also want to tell you about a free gift just for you listeners, and we'll thank a couple sponsors, and then we're off. So for those of you who are new to the podcast, you may not know that I've created an amazing holiday gift guide just for the listeners of this show so that you can get the best holiday deals on biohacking tools, supplements, and so much more. There are gifts in different price ranges and once a year price drops on your dream biohacks. And hey, nobody said you can't shop for yourself. So all you have to do to get your hands on it is go to natnitm.com forward slash gift guide for my list of holiday deals and gift ideas. 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C15 strengthens our cells from the inside out, protecting them from the wear and tear that drives aging. When your cells are strong, you sleep better, you think clearer, you move easier, and yeah, you actually look healthier too. C15 is three times more effective than omega three and completely vegan. Fatty 15 is on a mission to optimize your C15 levels to help support your long-term health and wellness, especially as you age. You can get an additional 15% off their 90 day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com forward slash NATNITM and using code NATNITM at checkout. Sigi, it is such a pleasure to be here in West Palm Beach with you live in living color. What a great way to do this podcast. Yeah, absolutely. We've been trying to connect for a year and we were going to do it over Zoom or maybe in Toronto or Ketchum. We're both in Palm Beach. The weather is beautiful. It's tropical and the energy is always better when you're with somebody. We had to take advantage of that. Well, thank you and thank you for providing this beautiful setting. It's quite special. So we're going to talk. I'm excited about this conversation and in a way I'm glad that it took a year to make it happen because I know so much more about you. I know so much more about your story and I'm really excited to share it with the audience. And we're obviously going to talk about the liver. And I want to start the conversation really by understanding, helping the audience to understand like what made, what was the moment that made liver health personal for you? Because I know you've got a big backstory here. So, so my father's Swiss, my mother's British, I was going to all set to go University of California Davis to be a winemaker. Oh, that's your dad, right? Your dad was a winemaker. Yeah, yeah. My grandfather, my great-grandfather, that's what we've done. That's what I'm the only son and that's what I was supposed to do. Okay. And my best friend passed away from drug interaction on his 21st birthday. And a lot of overdoses are actually interactions. And most are actually pharmaceuticals. It's been two chemicals mixed and it can cause like a cardiac arrest or something. So that kind of spun me and I went into kind of an epiphanal experience and I decided I wanted to study spirituality and what I wanted to do with my life and my brains and my knowledge. And I turned that into, I started creating nutraceuticals to deal with detoxification from an overdose perspective, prevent that from happening. And really got going and, you know, my first was formulating and I was selling on the back of my car to stores and I drive around and do that. And I had a mentor that helped me start that company when I had the concept. I was, because of my knowledge of beverage, I was a beverage director for a fine dining restaurant and a restaurant group. And I took that knowledge though and that chemistry knowledge and biotechnology knowledge because wine is a living organism and taking care of it's been. Yeah, it is. And you know, you are, we have vines that are eight years old and they get sick and you need to treat them and you take care of them and you love them and you nurture them and you prune them and you cross, you breed them. So there, it's very much like taking care of a patient, you know, which, so that kind of morphed into, so I started creating nutraceuticals and along the way, my mentor who was like this Hemingway, sorry, my godfather who was like this Hemingway type figure, he had passed away from cirrhosis. So that was very traumatic to see the ravages of somebody, you know, going through that. And then my mentor that helped me start my first company died of liver cancer. Well, so the universe was really moving you in a very particular direction. It was and I even when I was dealing very much with and I created formulas for rehab clinics, right? But I was using western medicine, so no vitamins and minerals and amino acids. And I didn't know much about eastern medicine and to be candid, I didn't know that much about the liver. I mean, the liver was definitely not talked about 28 years ago. And we're talking about that next. So yeah. So I, that evolved into, I started working in eastern medicine and in eastern medicine, the liver is the general of the body and it's so much more important. So I, you know, transitioned in about 2003. And I said, well, I'm going to dedicate the rest of my life to preventing people from getting liver disease and advancing liver health and that knowledge. And as time went on, that went from creating a formula, but then I'm, you know, you've got this incredible formulas, but you're in an empty audience hall singing. So we have to then bring awareness. So then it's the knowledge and then you've got 90% of people with fatty liver disease don't know they have it. So then we got into diagnostics. So it's been constantly evolving. And the reason the product's called deliverance actually, or, you know, flagship product that took 18 years was because it was his marketing guru, a psychologist who, funny enough, he uses it and he doesn't get out anymore. But he was the guy behind Berv Clico and the psychology of that, the yellow and the color and how you feel when you look at the brand. The champagne. Yeah, champagne. Yeah. And he did Red Bull earlier days. Brilliant English guy. Like a psychologist said, he created the deliverance because my deliverance from losing loved ones and a traumatic experience was, you know, deliverance means to take you from bad to good or to set you free. So we, that negativity I've turned into now I save people. Beautiful. We were trying to think of it last night. We probably saved thousands of people's lives. Sure. And that's why he came up with the name deliverance and it had the name liver in the middle of it. It's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. Okay, so let's back up a little bit for the audience. Thank you for that. So that's the why. And that's the why. It's a beautiful why. And it's, you know, filled with hardship and heartbreak, but it's a beautiful way to transmute that pain into good. Yeah, absolutely. So let's back up for our audience and let's talk about the liver. Yeah. Let's talk about the liver's importance. You mentioned in traditional Chinese medicine, the, or in Eastern medicine, the liver is the general. Yes. And there's always this argument, is it the liver? Is it the heart? Is it the brain? And at the end of the day, this is a collaborative effort. Yes, yes. We can't make do with any, without any of them. But let's really, I think the liver gets overlooked very often. Yes. And let's talk about what is about the liver that makes it so critical for optimal human health and by extension, by for longevity. So the liver is, and that's why it's so essential in Eastern medicine is their understanding of it and appreciation. The reason it's called the general of the body, so in Eastern medicine, the emperor is your heart. But your liver's the general and all your other organs are basically the soldiers and the officers and the troops because the liver controls them. Yeah. And the more and more we've discovered about the liver and we understand it and get into it, the liver actually controls so many other organs where, you know, the heart's just essentially pumping blood, right? The brain is like a computer, the kidneys are a filter system, but the liver is thousands of functions, 500 of which are vital. So it's the most important organ for your immune system for you. It's the largest organ in the body. The largest external organ is the skin. And your skin health and your hair, if you want that to be beautiful, you have to have a healthy liver. So the liver's controlling that. For women's health and hormones, the most important organ is the liver because it's processing the hormones, it's breaking them down, it's managing them, it's releasing them, it's flushing them, and the liver is also a gland. So it produces its own hormones. Yes. And you can go on and on about all the liver functions, red blood cells, white blood cells. It's also a mastermind, and I very much love the opinion that it has its own, it's an inherently intelligent organ. Yeah. It manages, controls, and is the mastermind of all of the vitamins, proteins, carbohydrates that we eat. Also energy. So you and I get up and we walk out the door right now, or you go up and go to the gym. The energy that you had to do that is your liver burning little glycan packets. So the liver is actually burning when you work out. The liver giving you that energy because it's burning it. So it's also your powerhouse as well. Every day I learn something about the liver. It is amazing. And isn't it the only organ that actually can regenerate? It's the only organ that fully regenerates. That fully regenerates. Your skin regenerates, but it's never the same. Your intestinal lining does as well, but the liver fully regenerates. You can have up to 90% of it damaged and it will come back. That is amazing. And you have some great stories about that. We'll talk about that later, which are, you know, when we first started talking, and I remember asking, what's your greatest story? And the story you shared has stayed with me to this day. These are really powerful stories. But before we go there, you know, the idea that, and I want to talk about this also because there's so much talk about what we eat, what we drink, but I think one of the things that people miss is everything that goes on the body and also gets processed through the liver. So whatever a couple of the things that you're seeing, things that go in through the nose, things that come through the skin, what are the things out there that people are being exposed to that they don't realize that they can avoid? Like, you know, I mean, and I don't want this episode, like you guys, I don't want this episode to be about freaking you out, but I want you, I'm hoping that people walk away from this episode having a greater understanding of what's, what are the things you can avoid easily? Because I think what we have to acknowledge is the liver and other organs of detoxification in the body are very capable and powerful. But we do live in a world where we can overload them. So if we can go after the low hanging fruit, we then enable for greater capacity to handle the things we maybe can't avoid as much. Absolutely. Right? So the things that, what are some of the things people ingest or put on or inhale that they should be avoiding? I mean, you said it very rightly so. It's, you know, there's so many toxins coming at the body and the regeneration is, the reason it regenerates is because it's constantly taking damage and regrowing, because if it wasn't constantly regenerating, I mean, every second, it would get overwhelmed. And, you know, we've introduced 100,000 chemicals into the human diet in the last 150 years. So anthropologically, we have not even come close to evolving to be able to deal with that. We're going to diet soda and why my theory on diet soda has now been proven about that with chemicals. But, you know, toxins come in many forms. Most people think of it like, okay, smoking, right, that's breathing. But we also breathe toxins, especially live in the city. There's all kinds of chemicals, heavy metals, if you're on an airplane. Cleaning materials are filled with them. So we're breathing a lot in. And then you've got obviously topicals, so you've got skin. So your skin is actually your best detox engine. The best way your body detoxifies, once the liver and the kidneys do its thing, it comes out mostly through the skin and sweat. That's just sweating so good for you. So when you're putting stuff on your skin, especially if it's synthetic or it's chemicals or it's clogging up your skin, you're starving your body's ability to detoxify and to take things in. The skin takes things in and it pushes things out. So topical is very important and the chemicals that are in there, deodorants one, especially any kind of sprays. And the worst place, you know, all the lymphatic, like, you know, centers are in armpits. And when you're spraying a chemical into there, not only are you blocking your body's detoxification, but should some of those chemicals and those forever chemicals and those, you know, micro micro plastics are coming into the lymphatic system directly. Like, right, they're going, they're honing it. But like the worst place, besides like in your mouth is would be in your armpit. 100%. What about there's just took an unfortunately delayed cab ride here. Yeah. The one of the things, and I've now probably been the cause of more cab drivers getting rid of these things than anything else is the air fresheners that people use in cabs. That's a great example. Most people don't think about that. In Costa Rica, I'm telling this guy, and he, you know, he's, he did not look very healthy. And I was explaining to him, explaining to him, and he had like a stack hanging from his, from his rear view mirror. He threw it away. Yeah. He handed it to the door, the gatekeeper and said, just throw this away from me. And the guy's like, what are you doing? He goes, she just told me, it was hilarious. That, you know, I don't, that's a really good point. I don't bring that up enough. I mean, I, my wife, Cassandra, you know, co-founder, she's very much on that, especially with the children. What makes you sit and feel sick? Yeah. It was a, it's a straight up chemical with all kinds of manmade synthetic flavors and scents and chemicals in there. And they're like, some of them are like little micro hairs and they're coming in and they're getting stuck in the lungs. Oh, you're kidding. So you've got that aspect of it. The breathing is important. We also, we always, we need to look at in some ways electronic EMF toxicity is very much, we just don't see that as much, but that's bombarding our brains. It's bombarding our organs. It's messing up our regulatory system. And also emotional toxicity. Absolutely. Stress causes more damage to smoking. You know, and smoking kills you. Stress, negative people, drama, anger, all these bad emotions energetically are very, very toxic as well. And that will make you sick. You know, you could get, you could eat processed food, but if you're around somebody that's maybe, you know, emotionally abusive or very negative or drama, that'll get you sick quicker as well. So we've got to also, we look at it. So like you said, low tox, right? So hang around people that are more positive, less toxicity, less drama, less negativity, more positive, eat healthier food, try to mitigate where we can because if we run around worrying about all the toxins out there, we'll stress ourselves out and they're causing more damage. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. All right. So let's get into some, some liver specific. So people will often look at, let's say their ALT, AST. So these are markers of liver health that your, your medical doctor will look at in your labs. Yes. And your doctor will say, well, they look fine. Yeah. Is there anything that they should, else they should be looking at that they may be missing? Absolutely. So when they do, you know, you get your blood panel done, the lipid panel, which is cholesterol and they're looking at kidney function and all that. And then the liver panel is about eight biomarkers. Yeah. And the three that they tend to look at most is ALT, AST and gammas. And those are indicative of maybe an infection or liver damage or liver stress. If those are up, that's actually, you've got a bigger problem. So you want to make sure your liver is healthy before you get to that point. But also, good thing people need to remember is a blood test is a lagging indicator. So it's showing something that's already happened. And you're just showing signals. All they are is basically, you know, biological signals that they're picking up on that something's under stress. It can also be a moment of time. You know, we had a guy, we were at Wellspring Wanderlust and we had a guy come up, he said, I came all the way to Gold Coast to come to get the scan done because I knew you guys were here. I've just been diagnosed with fatty liver disease. I'm really worried. I'm like, okay, well, let's let's chat about this. How were you diagnosed? Did you have a scan? He goes, no, I said, do you have MRI? He said, no, he said a blood test. I was like, okay, a blood test will not show you if you're fatty liver disease. It'll show you if you've got liver stress, but it doesn't. So I said, let's just have a show, go fast for two hours, come back up, pop on the table, we're going to scan you. We're going to tell you right now what exactly how much liver fat you have. Scan the guy, liver fat was fine. He had no scarring, no fibrosis, no inflammation, low liver fat. And this poor guy's been running around for a week stressed out of his mind because the doctor was using a lagging indicator on an old school way to tell. So, and we used to use blood tests like that. We now as a liver clinic and my clinics and my practices and all my medical team, that's only part of the data. And it's like looking, like through a pinhole, you need to see more. So you need to do either a fibro scan, which we love, old schools and ultrasound and MRI. There's other ways to look at it. You're not getting the whole picture. We've also seen scenarios too, and a concern we have, kind of an example, is some of these cancer blood tests. So we've got cancer all running through us all the time anyway, cancer. And if you get the blood test at the wrong time of the day, and it just, it might pick up a bunch of cancer cells that are still miniscule, but if it picks them up at that moment, you might be terrified, doctors ago, we think you have cancer, so it can cause a lot of fear as well. So a blood test is only part of the puzzle. And it's important, but it needs to be taken into effect with other things. So it's really, you need to get an image of what, of the liver. Yes. To see what's going on, whether it, to your point, whether it's your, it's a fibro scan or an MRI. And so how often should people do that? Like how fast does this, how fast can you develop fatty liver disease? And I'm honing in on fatty liver because cirrhosis is a particular one, right? If you're a heavy drinker, then there's a, there's a better chance and, or if you've been a heavy drinker for a long time, but, but fatty liver is more insidious. It's, and we can talk about this. You see fatty liver in people who look fantastic. So fatty liver disease, so liver disease in general is at 400% in the last 50 years. Wow. You look, I've got this World Health Organization stats, I'll share with you. Most diseases were pushing down, they're coming down, medical technology is getting great, we're being more aware, liver disease is an outlier, and it's still accelerating. And you think it's because of all these toxins and chemicals were being released. And it really started, and you've talked to most surgeons, a lot of guys on my board are liver transplant surgeons, my cousins were to the top liver transplant surgeons in the world, University of Zurich, he was at University of Toronto, have an epitology. And you didn't really see fatty liver before the early 80s. And what really happened in the late 70s, early 80s, is that's when you started to see this huge uptick of certain pesticides, high fructose corn syrups, pesticides, herbicides. So you can correlate when these were released into the public in mass, and then, because at first the surgeons didn't know what this was, why are these liver so fatty? So fatty liver, it can actually develop very quickly. When we do a clinical study, or any major university does, or hepatology, and we want to look at fatty liver disease, the actual protocol that is used, whether it's in Zurich or Toronto or London or Miami, is you put them onto a Western Standard Diet. So a Western Standard Diet is what we use in the medical community to induce fatty liver disease. And it's very, you can get it very quickly, it depends on, sometimes it's cumulative, and sometimes it can happen really quickly, because somebody goes on to like, remember the SuperSizeMe documentary? Like, his fatty liver disease must have been off the charts. I mean, he was dying at the end of the show. So fatty liver disease, and that is 40% of the population, 4-0. From their diet. It's most well- We're seeing any kids now, right? We're seeing kids. We're seeing it in children. Yeah, so we're working on a project with Mahaa, with Dr. Phil, and about trying to get into the schools, because 17% of teenagers now have fatty liver disease. That's insane. 12% of people under the age of 12, so little kids have it. And the first time in history, we've actually seen babies in India, or born with fatty liver disease, and that's because the parents, it usually affects the poverty of low income quicker, because of cheap calories, and fake calories, and palm oils, seed oils, all these seed oils are a big causation as well. So you're seeing that happen, it's going. But you also have genetic differences as well. So whereas we're in London, we're based, we have a huge South Asian population, and we're seeing a lot of fatty liver disease called skinny fat. Now, that's a genetic propensity, so I think a Hispanic American will get it two times faster than a Caucasian, or a South Asian, all the way from Iran, or basically all the way through India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, three times as fast. So whereas I would, on a Caucasian, I wouldn't start worrying if we were just going off of obesity. Fatty liver disease, until their BMI was 30, South Asians 22. 22, you look great. So you don't have, so you have a lot less wiggle room as a Southeast Asian. You get it much much quicker. And why do you think that is, is it because you think they're eating a diet that they weren't intended, like they've morphed into a diet that they were never meant to eat, and their body's not able to deal with it as well? It's that kind of genetic adaptation, kind of a methylization switch that happened, is in those populations, you would go through periods where you have monsoon periods, and you have drought periods. So when they eat, that ethnic group, it goes away from Dravidians or Sri Lanka up, they store those glycan packets on the liver. So they store more energy, so when they don't have a lot of food, then you see it with fasting now too, we're starting to see that. It's storing it, because your liver thinks, okay, if there's a time where it's not plenty, I need to store this so we can get by. Yeah, except the buffet never ends. Correct. So you then take that population, you put them into London or to New York or Toronto, and they're now on a normal caloric diet, that switch hasn't shut off. It's going to couple generations for that to switch off now, because they're now into like a Western lifestyle. You then take that, is a causation, but then you amplify that if they're eating crap food. So if they're eating like high-fructose corn syrup or preservatives or processed foods, then it's like just, you've magnified it, and it's explosive. In India, we think it's maybe 50% of the population has fatty liver disease. That's crazy. And men between 45 and 65, about 65 to 70% will have fatty liver disease. So it does affect men. Two-thirds of fatty liver disease is with men, one-third is with women. It's the opposite of Alzheimer's. Alzheimer's is 70% of women, so it's just, it's said as well. So men are much more susceptible to it. And most of the women that get it is generally postmenopause, because their whole system's changing as well. And that's like, they need to be very cognizant at that time of that transitionary period of a woman's life. Yeah, got it. So... Oh, cirrhosis. I forgot, I have to tell you this too. Tell me about cirrhosis. So you brought up a really good point about cirrhosis, what drinkers get, and that's what I always thought too, and that's what most people think. And that's another, most people, we say, oh, do you want to get your liver scanned or how's your liver? Oh, I don't drink. Right, so... We know someone. Yeah. I mean, not naming names, but a guy who lives a very healthy lifestyle doesn't drink, but plant, very plant-based diet. Very plant-based, a lot of bread. And shocked. Exactly. 70% of people with liver disease is non-alcohol related. Yeah, it's Nash, right? Non-alcoholic. Yeah. Well, it goes naffled, then you get Nash. Naffled, then Nash. Nash is when you get, that's, that's, you're trying not to get there. That's a form of hepatitis. So that's non-alcoholic, steatosis hepatitis. Right. Your fat's got so bad, that you start to get fibrosis and scarring and too much collagen, and then you've got Nash. Okay, so nobody listening to this podcast is going to get to that point. Yes, yes, of course. Naffled, which is non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, is the sneakier guy. Correct. But cirrhosis, which we were touching on too, which my godfather died of, when we were kids, it was about 94% of people with cirrhosis was because of alcohol. Yeah. 6% was non. As of 2022, 51% of people with cirrhosis are non-drinkers. Wow. So that has gone from, you know, 4% to 51%. And what's that? Is that the chemicals or the sea water? I think it's, I think it's a combination of chemicals, processed foods, high fructose corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, pharmaceuticals, all these chemicals. That's what's driving it. There is an interesting correlation. I discovered this because my mother-in-law's best friend had cirrhosis, never drank a day in her life. And I started asking her some questions and I said, well, you know, and I said, did you have your gallbladder taken out? She said, oh yeah, my 20s. I go, when did you start getting liver issues? She goes, actually, since my 30s. And one of our investors, brother, is the top gallbladder expert in the Netherlands. And they're doing a huge study and he'll publish it soon. They now have a direct correlation between people pulling a gallbladder and then 10 years down the road, people getting liver cancer and NASH horrifically. Yeah, because if you think about it, the gallbladder is like your carburetor, right? So your liver's producing the bile acids that break fats down. Another thing the liver does, it breaks 70% of the fats down that we eat. So the, and the gallbladder kind of acts like this carburetor releases it when it's needed. That's why if you want to trigger it in the morning, lemon water, apple cider vinegar before you eat, you're, you're, you're basically priming and firing your gallbladder to reduce these bile acids to make them. And basically, I think due to economics and somewhat ignorance is in UK, somebody gets a gallbladder issue, they pull 35,000 gallbladders a year. They just say, we don't need it. They pull it. It's just, it's, it's actually, it's like the appendix. It seems like an extra organ almost, and it is tragic. And now we're seeing the ramifications of that mentality that started happening. And one of the reasons gallbladders are getting overloaded because of dietary. I mean, Hyman said it really good, Mark. He said, foods were killing us, bad food. So you take that carburetor out, and then you basically just attaching, you have a straight line of that bile acid going straight into the stomach. And eventually what's happening is that's coming back up and starting to damage the liver, getting liver into toxicity. It's, I think it's also contributing greatly to leaky gut. So you had no control or regulation. And that's why we're seeing all these nascent cirrhosis. I think that's one of the big, big causes of why the cirrhosis explosions happening. No kidding. And so is there anything that people can do who've had their gallbladders removed? Do you think? I always say, if you've had your gallbladder removed, you need to be more cognizant when your diet is. Yeah. You don't have to be scared. Just be more cognizant. And I highly recommend getting a scan once a year. Just to keep it around. Because a blood test isn't going to show if you're getting scarring. Right. Get a scan once a year and just keep on top of it. Because the liver is so amazing to regenerate. The beautiful thing and the silver lining and type two diabetes and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease is it's reversible. Yeah. So we can, we can, we can shift it. The liver will forgive you. That's why I always say love your liver. It loves you. Yeah. You can, you can, you can come back from it. The liver can be 90% beaten up and destroyed and it'll come back. So there's a lot we can do for it too. Not being a negative. Nelly, it's just, we had to be cognizant of where the, where the risks are. So what do you think the biggest blind spots are with people? You've kind of said it as we've been talking. Yeah. But what are the things that people are doing that they don't realize is putting undue load on the liver? And after this, I want to talk a little bit about, you know, phase one, phase two detox. I want to take people through that a little bit. Yeah. But what are the big, let's encapsulate maybe or recap quickly. What are the biggest blind spots that people have, that things they may be eating, exposing themselves to are doing, that's really impacting their liver that might be easy for them to just turn off tomorrow. So process foods. Yeah. Insecticides, pesticides, those are some of the things we don't really think about. You know, we're aware of them, but how many of us really properly wash your vegetables, you know, before to get that off? That's something that doesn't really take any time or money. You just have to be remembered to do it. That's a hidden thing that's coming in that we can look at as well. The breathing, like you mentioned earlier, those air freshers in the cars or in the house, those are all these little things that we can just, you know, we have to run around chicken little, but we can start to make conscious decisions. Now we say that the best thing you could do for your health takes no time, no money, and it's instant, which is just being conscious. So those are some of the really important things. Pharmaceutical usage. Yeah. You know, when we get into like paracetamol, which is what we call it in London, in England, I don't really call it in Canada, it's Tylenol in America, Tylenol in Canada. The number one cause of liver damage and liver failure globally is excessive use of Tylenol and setaminophen or paracetamol. And I love that you said excessive use. Yeah. I do want to say, you know, there's been a bit of a panic about Tylenol over the last little while, and we're not talking about the person who uses Tylenol once in a while because they have a headache or a pain. We're talking about people who are popping Tylenol like candy because they're not dealing with whatever's driving the issue that they think they're treating with their Tylenol. Which is kind of indicative of the society right now, rather than getting to the, or you practice root cause medicine, I practice root cause medicine, rather than finding out what's causing it, people are just blanketing it over by, oh, I'll just take more throughout the day, rather than you could fix it. And they're not maybe realizing how many they're taking. If it's for a headache, I was the best thing you could do for a headache. First thing to do is go drink some water because most headaches are just dehydrating. Dehydration. It's your brain telling you we need more water, you know, 70% water. And if that doesn't work, you know, pain is terrible. We don't want to be in pain. We don't want to suffer. The better choice would be like an ibuprofen or an Advil. It's, you know, it's anti-inflammatory. It's a little tougher in the kidneys, but it's not causing any damage. The reason paracetamol is so damaging is because it dissolves liver tissue. So we've actually, we have people in the transplant unit that have usually teenagers that have tried to commit suicide or maybe a false cry for help, where they've eaten like a bottle of Tylenol. And we've got them in the transplant unit because so many Tylenol at once has dissolved so much of the liver that the liver shot, we have to give them a transplant or they'll die. And that's, so every time you take it, it's dissolving a little bit of your liver tissue, but your liver grows back. So excessive use of the problem. As long as you don't keep popping it. Correct. And you don't then magnify it with alcohol at the same time. So if you're going to do Tylenol, you need it. Do it. Don't do it with alcohol. If you're going to have a drink, don't take it at the same time. And a lot of people use that as kind of the crutch that they've had hangovers, you know, or they've been drinking and then they add Tylenol to it as well. So two plus two doesn't four in that scenario. Two plus two is like 34. So the damage compounds. And to be candid, if I've got a really bad headache and I've done the water, I don't have the Advil, I'll take a Tylenol because I don't want to be in pain. I just drink a lot of water, I'll take a Deliverance. I'll do things to mitigate it. So we don't need to be afraid of it. We just have to be cognizant of it and use it, you know, appropriately. 100%. I love that. Okay. So let's talk about detox, all these detoxes that people are doing. And, you know, it's a process. This is not a weekend thing and it's a daily thing. So do you want to very quickly take people through what phase one and phase two detox is all about? Just let's do it in a snapshot. Perfect. Because we don't want you melting in the sun. So there's three phases of detox. This 10 takes a lot of work. I am. Well, listen, I'm turning around to this too. Yeah. Before you go to Canada, we're going back really 10. I need to catch it. Yeah. So detoxification is removing toxins from the body. And the body's ability to do that far outweighs any detox. I've developed detox programs for rehab clinics for 28 years. The body's ability to do that is incredible. So we just want to do support it. So you have three phases of detoxification. I mean, it sets your body, your liver and your kidneys are working in conjunction all the time to detoxify with your skin and, you know, you're in a tract and all things doing. But detoxification. So phase one is basically identification. What are the toxins? And then it works in the process of basically turning them and making water soluble. And then you have phase two, which is conjugation, which is then making them and preparing them into a way that the body can expel them. I'm doing a lay version because it's much simpler. Yeah. Cause there's seven phases of faith. There's seven different processes that body can use. I'm doing the succinct quick version. So identification, conjugation, prepping it to get rid of it. And then phase three is elimination and getting rid of it. So identify, get it ready to be, get rid of and then get rid of it. That's, that's the quick way to say it as well. And the liver is doing that in multiple ways. As fast as it's converting, you know, one compound into another. It's like NAD, right? Most NAD is an intracellular. So when you take NAD, when it goes to the liver, the liver can, it doesn't absorb it, the cells were converted to nicobitide. It converts it back. Converts it into that, which is actually not very complex to get. That's why NAD without eminence precursors, you're not, you're kind of a waste of money really. Yeah. But it's just an example of, I don't know why it's like NAD. That's why taking precursors as a supplement is a better idea. Yeah. Like getting your body ready. So your liver converts, it's like alcohol, right? Alcohol actually isn't really toxic. That makes you really sick. It's after alcohol breaks, after your liver breaks the alcohol down, the byproduct of that is called alcohol dehydrogenate. And that is what's super toxic. So that is what's the poisonous bit that makes you feel really bad. So it's, it's, that's part of phase two. And so if your phase two is upregulated, you're going to convert alcohol faster into this toxin that's going to make you feel horrible. So what are your thoughts on things like DHM? Well, if it's clogged too, too, if your liver's sluggish or fatty, your ability for phase three is diminished. So those toxins can actually build up. So actually, let's, let's say, let's talk about this a little bit. This was a question I wanted to ask you before. How does having a fatty liver affect your ability to detox? Okay. Like, how does having fatty liver, so having fatty liver is bad? Okay, great. I don't want fat anywhere in my body. I don't want my liver to be fat. Nobody can see it when I'm in my bikini. So maybe I don't care so much. What is it about fatty liver that is so bad for the human body? What does it stop the liver from doing? Okay. So the liver, happier liver, great way to, for the audience and for everybody to identify from a classroom or give me a lecture, the liver is about the size of a small chihuahua. Okay. So you want that chihuahua to be soft and squishy. And the softer and squishier it is, the better it works. And it's like precipitation. It's not like liquids go into cells, right? So at certain times of the day, if you have a big meal, your liver will actually grow by 40% while it's doing its thing and come down. Oh, that's why you kind of get that feeling. Yeah. So it's ability to, yeah, because remember, the liver's up here. Yeah. Most people think it's down here. It actually starts on the left side of the chest. The bottom of it follows the contrivia rib cage and the top of it is about where your nipple is. And it stays up here because it's protected by the ribs and it's huge, but it will grow by up to 40%. That's why people that do have cirrhosis, they get this huge tummy and that's the liver's because it's not getting rid of fluids. It's swollen. Okay. And so if it's fatty, its ability to do this starts to diminish. Okay. And it also has less surface area and less healthy surface area affects insulin reactivity and how it deals with insulin. So that's why fatty liver, 70% of type 2 diabetics have fatty liver disease. Fatty liver disease is the foundational cause of type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome because its functionality starts to go down when it gets fatty. So it's ability to, and a blood flow to create the acids that break fats down and it starts to snowball. So if it's fattier, its function goes down. Therefore, you have all these issues and it gets starts to get stiff because it's fattier. And if it's stiffer, you start to get more scarring inflammation, it also becomes sluggish. And if it's sluggish, its ability to do this and to process and to get the toxins out and in diminishes. So it's like being weighed down. It'd be like trying to go jogging with like a huge weight vest on and you're just not going to work as fat, run as fast. And you're not ready for it. Exactly. So that's really how it affects it and it can clog you up. Okay. So that's really interesting. One of the things I learned in school was, so there's a couple of things. One is that the liver doesn't store toxins. It's a through way, right? But one of the things that I'd learned is if your phase one is that between phase one and phase two, you often end up with product with an outcome that is more toxic than the thing that came in. So let's say substance A comes in, it goes through its phase one detox in the liver. It actually gets converted into something that's more toxic, which is why it's so important to support phase two. Like alcohol. Like alcohol. So that toxin is in phase one before it can go through phase two. Yeah, the conjugation. Okay. So when we take DHM, does that upregulate phase two detoxification? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I was always wondering about that. And I'm like, I know I'm going to ask you about that. He's going to know the answer. Okay. So then what are some of the new, what are the, let's say if you had to pick two or three nutrients for liver that people should focus on, what would that be? Just to support the work? Glutathione is a master antioxidant. And we make it. We do produce it. We produce a lot of it. So what actually deliverance, I don't actually put glutathione in. I increase the body's ability to produce its own glutathione. So glutathione is obviously a very good, but a lot of people, some might be deficient of it as well. It's a very good question. What would be, if I had to pick three stuff. What about milk? People talk about milk this all the time. Milk this will by itself is very good. It's like a very good basic herb to do. I used to use it. I don't use it anymore because it doesn't, it doesn't play well with other herbs. Interesting. A lot of countries in Europe were actually, you can sell it individually, but you can't blend it. You can actually have a toxic effect if it's mixed with certain herbs. So by itself, it's good. Interesting. We don't need it because we're much more complex, but if somebody maybe can't afford deliverance or they just want something basic, milk this is a very good basic one. Dandelions, fantastic. Dandelion, yeah, like bitters. Aren't bitters in general? Yeah, bitters are very good for them. That's kind of the old, like, classical. Artichokes considered bitters. Yeah, yeah. And then you can make extracts from that too. So artichokes really good. Yeah. Dandelion. Those are some of the ones you could go through. Green vegetables are very good. Obviously leafy vegetables, spinach is not, not kale so much. There's a whole thing with kale and kale and MRI. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I actually think, Swiss chard. Yeah, I think they've gotten a bad rap. I think to some degree, when you cook them, you can get rid of some of the oxalates. If you have a problem with oxalates, obviously you have to be more cautious. And definitely not if you're doing an MRI. Have you seen some of the studies on that when you do the oxalates? No. And if you're on two kale diet? Yeah. You, the MRI action. A kale diet. Yeah, a lot of people with kale. Yeah. I think kale is more of like a, like not even a garnish. It's a garnish. Yeah. A garnish or, you know, the number one buyer of kale for most of the 20th century was actually Pizza Hut. Because at the salad bar, all that green, did they put it? Oh yeah, they put it. It was kale. That's what it used to be used for. Yeah, it was a good background. That's hilarious. It's a stazer. That's hilarious. Okay. So what's one marketing claim in the liver cleanse world you wish would just disappear? What should people look for instead? What's, what's the thing that you hear that you're like, are you kidding me? Are you still plugging that? Some of the detoxification programs or the supplements that are saying to do detoxification is sometimes, and I used to do this, which is more of an active approach when you try to trick the liver or push the liver to detoxification. I think that's actually, as somebody that used to do that, I now appore that. Okay. I think it's better to listen to the body and reinforce it to do it. And some of these detox protocols can sometimes be actually somewhat harmful. And the reason is if you go into proper detoxification, it's incredibly caloric intensive. So if you're not eating right at the same time, it'd be kind of like running an engine without any oil. You can actually cause damage. So some of these detox diets, if they're not paired with nutrition, can actually be somewhat damaging. And proper nutrition at that time. Correct. I think that, you know, I think one of the challenges with detox is also is that this idea that you can just do whatever you want and then detox once in a while and kind of get over the harm that you did. And whereas the way that I view supporting detoxification in the systems, this is a daily event. It's a little bit where you were talking about before starting your day with lemon water or having some apple cider vinegar before a meal, eating your bitters, like all of these things that you do every single day. Wash your veg. Wash your vegetables. Get rid of the air freshener things for the love of the toilet. Even detergents, right? Like laundry detergents. Yeah, we're very much like that. We noticed that, especially with we have a five-year-old and a seven-year-old, Cassandra and I, very healthy. But that's very important. Even when we're staying at Caterbian Bee here, we'll go to Sprouts and get like a healthy, good soap and detergent because it's in your skin. Also, dishwashers too. Some of those chemicals that they put in there, so your glasses are like shinier. I mean, that's coating the glass and then you're drinking out of it. So those are ways that like that's another hidden, I guess, source of toxicity. It is a hidden source and it's easy to get rid of. Although it's not that easy because then when you go to the healthy dishwasher soap, your husband's like, nothing's clean. It doesn't look as good. I can get over it, just take out a cloth, brush it. Okay, so let's keep moving because we're going to lose you to melting soon. How does liver health shape how we... Like, does your liver, do you consider the liver having a direct effect on people's energy, mood, how they function? Like, if you have a sluggish liver, are you going to feel it? Absolutely. Not just feeling this, but you're going to feel it in your mood and your ability to think. So the first symptom of fatty liver disease is brain fog. Really interesting. I was with Dr. Porter and he uses obviously, you know, brain tap and brilliant with the brain and some neuroscientists and I would say, you do realize that the brain liver axis is... And I said, I went through the science with him. So one of the first symptoms of fatty liver disease is brain fog. So the brain liver axis is very key. Also for children, like an obese child or a child with fatty liver disease, we'll always test lower. So there's a direct correlation. Cognitive function, this has proven many times over in studies, cognitive function is decreased or handicapped if you have a fatty liver. So it's affecting your brain and when I say mental acuity, you know, memory recall, speed, thoughts, brain fog, those are one of the things that's affecting right away is your brain. Okay. Energy levels as well. If it's sluggish, you're going to also get more fatigue and if it's fattier, your ability. So that's why it's burning those energy. Remember, it's generating of energy. Yeah. If it's got a weight belt on and, you know, a weight vest, it's ability to do that. So fatigue is one as well. That's why if you have a really big night, let's say you're drinking a really big fatty meal, you start to get tired as well because your liver is working so hard. It's burning a lot of calories. Remember, I said it's caloric intensive. So that is probably two of the key factors. What was the third part of the question? I had another thought. I just lost. I was asking just about energy and mood. How people are going to feel. So let's talk about emotion. Let's talk about anger. So angry people will, anger resides in the liver and angry people will actually develop more liver issues and they get more liver cancers. They get more liver situations and advice averse if they've got a liver issue, they'll actually become angrier. So you can act so you could not be not really an angry person, but if you're starting to get angry a lot more, that's actually a that's actually a warning sign that you may have a liver issue. Hot take. I don't want to get sick this season. Looking ahead at my calendar, I've got a lot of exciting things to do and places to be. And I know your calendar is no different. So I have a few key tools in my don't get sick this season stack. Notably, bioregulators. My go to at this time of year are thymus and the pineal gland bioregulator. This is when I do that 30 day reboot that I talk about a lot in the podcast where I'm talking about bioregulators. Why? Because the thymus bioregulator helps to keep immune response balance, think T cell quality control and small human studies and older adults link it with healthier immune markers and fewer seasonal respiratory issues. Now the pineal gland bioregulator supports your natural melatonin and circadian rhythm. Key when schedules and daylight change. So you get the kind of sleep that underpins immune resilience in plain English, steadier sleep, steadier defenses, more fall plans kept. Whatever your health needs, there's a bioregulator for you. Now head to profound-health.com and use code NAP15 for 15% off your order. Everybody's talking about menopause and perimenopause. Finally, women, liver plays a big role in there. Do you want to touch on that a little bit? Because I think everybody's rushing to hormone therapy, which I think is fantastic if you're getting assessed. But I'm a big believer in supporting the liver at any point. But certainly as we're going through this transition in life, the liver starts to take a real hit. Do you want to talk about that a little? Well, it starts to take a real hit. And I'd say one of our main three areas of focus at the liver clinic at Deliverance is actually women's health and menopause. And all the great hormone doctors or anyone that's really good and up to speed on like integrative medicine, functional medicine, you should definitely not start any hormone therapy until their liver is in optimal shape because you could actually be over subscribing or wrongly subscribing the amount of hormone therapy because the liver is maybe you're compensating for it. So the first thing is get the liver into a really good place because the liver is going to be managing and processing and breaking down all those hormones. You need the liver and best tick, then go it as well. Also, if your liver is out of whack, you may be estrogen low or estrogen higher, progesterone high. So your estrogen progesterone could be out of whack. It could be just because your liver is out of whack. So sometimes I think, and I've seen this, women have been misdiagnosed of going into early menopause and it was actually just the liver issue. That wasn't managing their hormones properly. Correct. And in the UK, you know, they've got six minutes to see a patient. They're just throwing you an HRT without even really seeing the whole picture. So start with the liver first before you and then go through the hormone talk, what hormones to use. Obviously, bio-identical is the best way. The cheap ones that are bovine that come from cow, those are the ones that have higher risks. So having your liver in shape before and during absolutely paramount to properly dealing with that. And deliverance, some of the ladies on my board, for instance, she's going through menopause and she takes the deliverance in the day because it delivers really healthy. So she doesn't get the hot flashes and the night sweats. Right? Night sweats. You detoxify. So you're detoxifying. So these are all symptoms of the liver and the liver is working really, really hard if you're in hormone therapy. That's why I got this. This is really important for anybody that's on any women that are post menopause or drinking. So I used to talk a lot about in these talks, this is a famous study where women that drink alcohol between the ages of 20 and 45 premenopausal, three times a week or 33% higher chance of getting breast cancer. The reason is because as we're drinking that much alcohol, the liver is not functioning as well. Therefore, it's not shedding the hormones that you have in your menstruation. Those are building up. They're building up toxicity in the breast and then it's resesitizing. Right? So I got asked on that. I was another doctor colleague said, can you find me that study? So I was going through my records trying to find the study and I popped across this study that was done in Denmark and it was 10,000 women and they looked at the correlation between postmenopausal women drinking alcohol and an HRT. I'll send you the study. It's fascinating. So if you're a woman postmenopause and you're an HRT, if you drink, I think it's two to three drinks a day, you have a 300% higher chance of breast cancer. If you drink four drinks a day, 500%. Wow. So you had, and the biggest cadre of binge drinking in the female community are postmenopausal women. Absolutely. So they're the most risk. So they're the most risk. That's one of the things that's one of the things that I think is driving some of these explosions of breast cancer. So that's really important that if you're going to be an HRT, don't drink. And is it because it's just too much load on the liver? Yeah, the liver's trying to deal with too much. It can't deal with everything. And if you got to pick between alcohol and bioidentical hormone therapy, pick the hormone therapy. You'll feel so much better. You won't eat the alcohol. And then when you're done with the hormone therapy, have a glass of wine when you're done, when you're through the cycle or whatever. Again, I mean, to bring context back to this, if you're on hormone therapy and you're having a glass of wine once or twice a week. Yeah, a glass of wine is not going to do anything. And I'm not talking the full glass. I'm talking like a normal glass. Yeah. Not the 12 ounce. This is three drinks. So this is like three, four drinks in that study. Yeah. And I always try to, because people always take on this liver expert and I thought leader and I work with these things about how bad alcohol is. Yeah, alcohol is a toxin. Bad for you. But so is stress. And at the end of the day, sometimes stressing about having that glass of wine or not having it, or maybe you don't know how to deal with stress or an emotional situation, a glass of wine can actually make you feel really good. And it can actually, you know, a little bit of wine can calm you down. It can bring about more discosited with social aspects of it as well. And as I always say, you know, the best medicine is laughter and having a glass of wine with your girlfriends or your mates, and you laugh more, that's a very, very healthy thing to do. Just do it in moderation. Yeah, a glass. Yeah. Not a bottle, a glass. Yeah. All right. So what are, are there, are there any lab signs that you might, that you might look for that is saying that the liver is affecting hormone balance? I guess it's the imbalances in the hormones. Yeah. So when you're doing the blood test on the hormones, obviously skin, so breakouts can be a, there's a great sign of hormone imbalance. That's why puberty, pubescence have it a lot too. I wanted to, yeah, because I want to talk about younger people too. Yeah. Like it's, go ahead. So that's a, that's a good sign as well. The liver panel, if the cholesterol starts to shoot up, that's another sign that your liver's not in good tick as well. Cause another thing that the liver does is it's processing, creating, breaking down and managing your cholesterol, which are lipids. And a lot of people are afraid of cholesterol. I think, oh, it's fat. Lipids or cholesterol is arguably one of the most important molecules in the body. So sometimes high cholesterol, they're also your firefighters for inflammation. So 70% of your cholesterol is genetic, but sometimes you may have high cholesterol because you've got, maybe you've got some inflammatory thing or mold damage. There could be other things. So don't, cholesterol is, it's a warning. It's a fire. It's, it's, it's a fireman. Yeah. The little fireman running around. It's just, you don't want them leaving plaque and it's the size of the cholesterol actually that really matters. Yeah. It's the size of it. The small ones stick to the arterial wall and cause plaque. Big ones just kind of, you know, cruise through. So that's also a sign of something else too. So that could be, that's a really good, important issue too. Also water retention, if you're retaining a lot of water, maybe your kidneys delivers on functioning as well. And that could be a hormone imbalance as well. So these are, these are all things to kind of tweak with. Plus, you know, there's a lot of things that are affecting hormones in, in women and men, especially young girls, in a lot of meat to eat. Yeah. Certain hormones that are in certain chickens and stuff. That's why in some of the countries that aren't really regulated as much and they give all these chickenload hormones, like in Mexico and South America, you've got little girls getting their periods at like eight, nine years old. Oh, you're hearing about it here. Yeah. So that's because it's too much hormones. And it's interesting. This applies in the United States, in London, in Europe as well. One of the largest contaminants in drinking water or tap water is actually birth control. Because even when it goes through the, the, the recycled water and the water filtration plants and what, you know, what have you, the water works, that doesn't get filtered out. So that's why we're seeing a lot of endocrinoid disruption. And I think you're seeing a lot of, you know, low testosterone in men. I mean, men's testosterone has dropped like 80% in the last 40 years. It's insane. And women are having a lot more. Because, you know, estrogen though is a woman's best defense against cancer. So you don't want it too low, but also you don't want it too high. Yeah. And you could be getting it from another source. That's why even when you, water filter your house is super important in the quality, because you, you cook with it too. Remember, you fill a bowl of, a pot up and you're making spaghetti or, or the vegetables or, you know, putting in your tea or your coffee, you're going to be getting hormones from that as well. So that can affect your hormone balance as well. So that's important to look at or taking a bath. So I like to take a grape like a bath, like Himalayan salt or magnesium salts. Those are things. Epsom salts. Yeah. Keep it, keep it basic. I have to bring this up because this is something you taught me, which I now try to tell everybody too. One of the big sources of toxicity with, with over-supplementation that we don't realize is magnesium steroid is a, is an ingredient in a lot of supplements, but they're not listing it because it's, it's more a part of, it's, it's not the main thing. It's part of the binding and the mix of. Well, it's showing up in the other ingredients. And the challenge we have there, it's just to, to jump in, is the people who are running around claiming that they're taking 60, 70, 80, 90 capsules a day. If you're not careful, and those 60, 70, 80, 90 capsules a day all have a little bit of magnesium steroid. It's not enough to hurt you. Guess what? When you multiply that by 90, it's enough to create a problem. It's one of the many reasons, and I want to get to talking about deliverance because we're going to run out of time soon. It's one of the many reasons why I love, just one of the small reasons why I love this, because there's no nothing other than the medicinal ingredients that you want. Yeah, fillers and binders that are. Yeah, fillers, binders. Yeah, flow agents. There's a lot of stuff hidden in food and vitamins and supplements because of manufacturing process. It's like what Jamie Oliver and the UK famous chef came out and he exposed that the reason McDonald's meet a beef, and this is the United States as well, is that red color, is they wash it in ammonia, because it's gone brown, and they wash it in ammonia so it turns pink, so it looks like fresh meat. But you don't list that as an ingredient because it's a manufacturing process. Yeah, yeah. And he exposed it. They had to stop doing that. So let me talk about liver crisis. We're having all our children's burgers and our burgers. We're not having McDonald's, but we thought it was safe was being washed in ammonia. I know, but what about them? This hidden bugger booze, like the magnesium things, great. I learned that from you and I tell all my patients that. I've told other people on the podcast, I always cite you because you taught me that, which I love. Well, did you ever hear, and I remember learning this a long time ago, that in cereals where they're trying to keep them crispy, like for example, in the old days, I don't even know if the cereal still exists. There was Rice Krispies, and that whole campaign was Rice Crackle Pop, because when you poured your milk on top, it would make those noises. They were lining the bags with a chemical to keep the cereal fresh and crispy, which is actually a toxin, but it doesn't have to be listed in the ingredients because it's not technically in the cereal. It's just in the bag liner. So I don't know if that's still a thing. It's another hidden source. And you know, they're all just trying to make a product that people are going to like, but for whatever reason, these chemicals have been grandfathered or they're not being regulated, and because they're not technically in the food, they're not. That's right. They still got that McDonald's hamburger. Like, I think it's 40 years now. It still looks the same. You know, this is actually a funny true story and anecdote. You remember the, you know, the Chevy Chase National Lampoon's vacation? So in Christmas vacation, his character, Mark Griswold, he worked at a company that produced chemicals to done in food, and he talks about, they were like, oh, what are you working on? And he goes, we've got this new varnish that we've created for corn flakes, where it's completely clear. It coats the cornflake, so it keeps it crunchy on the inside. It keeps the milk from penetrating into the cereal. So it doesn't get soggy. And I'm like, is that real? I looked it up. That is a real thing. They actually have these chemical, basically like a wash that they do to keep a cornflake crunchy or rice crispier to make it pop. So that's another hidden, like processed food. Just get some fresh granola. Just say we have fresh granola, some muesli. Yeah, yeah, get some, get some. But they joke about it in the thing. They're in the office. And it's horrible. All right, so I want to talk a little bit about fasting. But then I want to ease into, I want to talk about this formula, because this stuff is magic. We might have to end the podcast with a shot. Yeah, yeah, of course. But let's talk a little bit about fasting and the liver, because I do think it's a powerful strategy. It's free, and it can be really effective as part of... Fasting is very important. It's very good. It's one of the only things that can cause the body to create new brain cells. So there's a lot of good to fasting as well. It's funny, when you all think about it, breakfast means to break your fast, which is good. Which assumes that you stopped eating more than three hours ago. Yeah. Well, I think if you worked probably in the, you know, like in the farm or more in agriculture, which most of us did up until the last 150 years, is you'd get up in the morning, you'd have a big breakfast, you'd work all day, you'd have a lunch, would probably be around 10. And you'd have early dinner, so you'd have that. So that time period to give your body kind of a different metabolic reset, I think is very good for fasting. Too much fasting could probably could cause some damage, but I think fasting is important. I'm a big fan of intermittent fasting, eight hours on, 16 hours off. What we did see, which is interesting, some people, they're fasting too much or they just started fasting, or even maybe a carnivore diet, we were seeing liver fat spike. Interesting. And that is, which ties into the GOP ones, antagonists and those as well, is that's because your body thinks you're starving, because it's not used to that regular, once you regularly fasting, it won't do it. But early days it's like, oh shit, maybe he's starving because they think we're out hunting and we're not finding anything. So let's store more glycans on the liver, so that if a bear comes out and chases us, we can burn it and run away. And when are we going to get our next meal? So you actually start to accumulate some liver fat there, but once you get your body kind of, it gets used to this pattern, it's like, okay, let's calm down, not, let's get the cortisol into control, the fight or flight, we don't need to be storing this, this is just the new cycle that the person's on. Okay, so there's an adaptation period to fasting? Yeah, and not a long one too. You know, your body can get used to certain things as well. It's why if you eat lots and lots and lots, like in America, your stomach gets bigger. So actually fasting, letting you start going to smaller meals, your stomach will shrink and you'll get, that's a natural way to not get, to have sensation and not get as full quickly. So your body can adjust very quickly on things like that. What we are seeing, which we need to get into microplastics sometime in this check, because we didn't discuss that. So microplastics is obviously, I mean, it's one of the toxins again. It's one of the toxins, we didn't mention it yet, but I think it's really important. Huge, huge. And one of the reasons that we're, we're really, I mean, it's more in the public eye now, we're discussing it more, but we're seeing it a lot more in the hepatology community and the liver community more is because of this ginormous rise of the GOP ones, the Rogovies, the Manjaros, the, you know, these weight loss products. And toxins are stored in your fat. Microplastics are stored in your fat. And you may have, and we all do, probably microplastics that we've absorbed over 30 years, you know, obviously more, more recently with like fish, especially people that eat a lot of fish, you know, you're eating so much with fish and packaging on the food and water bottles and stuff. So you're accumulating it. And you might have accumulated 30 years of it. But when you go and dump 20% of your body weight in two, three months, you've dumped all this microplastics at once and the liver's getting overloaded. And we're starting to see actually some cases where the liver is just like saturated with microplastic beads. So too much weight loss too quick is dumping a lot of microplastics into the liver into the body. And that's a big concern. Yeah. Well, when I was in school, the first thing they taught us was before you detox, before you push a detoxification pathway of the body, make sure that the doors of detoxification are open. And I think this goes back to what you said earlier with HRT, for example, make sure that the liver is in good shape before you or as you. So if you're on GLP ones, you've got to be taking care of your liver at the same time. Because otherwise it's just going to get clogged up. It's part of the reason why one of the things that we don't talk about enough with GLP ones, and there's a couple of them that are particularly efficient at driving because it slows the movement of food through the GI tract, it slows that peristalsis. A lot of people end up constipated. This is a calamity because if you're constipated, the all this this these toxins that your body, your liver has done all the work. It's like, okay, we've done the work, we've moved it out, and guess what? It comes back. It gets reabsorbed into the body. And all those toxins, and it's an uncomfortable calamity too. It's uncomfortable also. So now you're skinny, bloated and toxic, not good. But so really, really taking care of these, making sure those doors are open. And that's really interesting about the microplastics. I've always heard that toxins are sequestered in fat. It's to your body. This is like the perfect hiding place because it doesn't use fat. But making sure that you're able, and making sure that you don't, and this is the other thing we see, we see people going to very high dose because they're like, okay, well I have a party in three months. I need to cut all this weight. And they think that by going super high dose, they're going to get to a better place. So you can be dumping toxins too quick, which is which is bad. Another risk with the, you know, there's a, the antagonist, let's just call them the GOP ones and the Rogovies and the Manjaros, because it's like different complexities to them. There's a lot of good for because obesity is a huge risk. Huge problem. Yeah. But what you're seeing is because everybody's, this gold rush is going and try, at least it's going to stop because Bobby Kennedy is bringing the prices down. So everybody at Cowboy out there, you've got Dennis putting people onto, you know, it's skincare places, putting onto GOP ones. If you do not have the right nutritional plan and exercise plan, 50 to 70% of your weight loss could be muscle. And for women, for men, for older people, anybody, if you lose 50% of your muscle mass, it's very hard to get that back on. So you really have to have an awesome diet, a lot of right protein, weight training or resistance. So you've got a really work hard. You should definitely not go into one of those unless you're doing some exercise, or you're going to lose all this muscle, not to mention the toxic load. So you, and you have to do it in phases too much too quick is where you're going to do a lot of problems. And that's where you see that they're calling it a zempic face where they look really drawn, kind of like a heroin addict looks like, you know, it's all like, they just don't look good too much skin. Yeah. Like do it slowly. So the skin also adjusts because you do too much, you're going to be like, like a fat bastard and ultrapowers. Yeah, with all this skin. So you got to do it in moderation, have a good diet, do that as well, and also take care of your liver. I'm working on a protocol right now. I'm actually had an amazing panel talk with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon about muscle. It's funny because she says muscle is the most important organ for longevity. I see it's liver. We actually concur. So in this talk, I said the bi-directional relationship between muscle and liver is so key. And that sparked this idea. I'm like, wait a minute. The two biggest risk factors for a GOP one is muscle loss and liver damage. 80% of the antagonists that have been submitted to FDA were pulled by the drug companies because of liver damage. So you are getting a lot of liver damage from those if they're not used properly. So you have to really make sure you're not saying you don't do them, but if you do do them, clean up your pancreas, clean up your diet, get a lot of protein, do resistance training and do it in a proper timely fashion. Good things take time. Yeah. And you rushing it, you can cause all kinds of damage downstream. I love that you say that. If you're wondering how we're now reversed, it's because we're sitting in the sun, SIGI was melting. I'm going back to Canada. I need the vitamin D. We had to change the battery, so we took the opportunity. So hope you don't mind. Plus now you get to see our other sides. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So what we said we were going to talk about next is actual deliverance. Yes. We've talked about the toxins. We've talked about the things, some of the easy things you can do to support a healthy liver. Some of the many reasons why a healthy liver is going to show up in your ability to function, your ability to think, your skin, your muscles, your digestion, your health, your longevity. You're not going to make it to 180 years old, whatever your target is, if you don't have a healthy liver, or you don't at least support your liver's ability to regenerate on the fly as it does. But let's now talk about this magic that's in this box because I've had the gift of experiencing it. My husband's had the gift of experiencing it, and this is a labor of love for you. This is a lifetime of passion wrapped up in a box. Yeah. It's my very proud of it. It's my life's work accumulated in that. And to be candid, it's so complex and so amazing that it took 18 years of R&D. And it took me going to, I work with epigenetics. I've worked with Chinese medicine doctors. I've worked with herbalists, molecular biologists, some of the best stem cell guys in the country, endocrinologists, hepatologists, cellular microbiologists. I mean, the list goes on and on. So this was formulated over 18 years in South Korea, Japan, Europe, Switzerland, United States. And it's a combination of all these different experts. No one person could have created this product. It took this collective of brilliance and me bringing in different expertise. Like one of the guys on my board, he was at Professor Skull Institute at UCSD, he was from Professor Monash. And his specialty, he's a, excuse me, he's a cellular neuroscientist, but his specialty is hydration and how you get into the cell membrane with hydration and with liquid and how we go into the cell. So it took that to do this product. So the product is based off of traditional herbal medicine, Korean, which is very similar to Chinese medicine, aerovatic influence. Everything's plant-based, but we use the best of technology. So one of the ingredients, for instance, when you take deliverance, you know, the mental clarity, you get really quick. I'm always arguing, should I take it in the morning? Should I take it at night? You can say, whenever you want the mental clarity for that, and that's something has an immediate effect. And that molecule took 15 years to identify it and only grows in one plant and one place in the world. And we have to take 1000 kilos of this C. kelp. We process it down to one kilo, which is about this big. And then we get one gram. It goes through a four-part distillation process. So we do work on a molecular level, but everything is 100% natural. Even the preservatives are natural. And that took me a couple of years. There's this incredible Australian natural preservative, basically, mixture that we came up with. So there's ingredients in it from Australia, South Korea, India, United States, Canada, the peppermint oils from France, it's organic, and other farmers that make it. So it is, you know, I want to give everybody the credit that's worked on that and continue to work on it. We've spent close to 20 million, has been spent on studies, and clinical studies on this product to get it that way. And because it's so important, I didn't just create, like I used to do, create a formula and this is really good and it looks great on paper. Let's sell it. This product, I didn't release it till it was ready and we would do a formula. I would do a study that I would adjust the formula there, do a study. So it's constantly doing it. And we're still constantly evolving. I was going to say, are you evolving this continually still or do you think you got it? I think I've got it for this, but I would be naive to think that I can't take it further. So we're working on other aspects of it too. So it is evolving right now. This is second to none from a liver perspective, but we are working on some other cool applications, ways to take it into the 21st century. If we do another talk, we'll go to some really deep stuff with the liver and chimerism and some mind blowing things that we'll do. We'll do it part too. Yeah, and stem cell, I think we can reverse cirrhosis with stem cells directly with a needle the size of a hair filament into the scarring ultrasound guided, put in stem cells, open up that pathway, reverse cirrhosis. We'll get into that later. But don't you reverse cirrhosis with this already? We don't. Have you got some stories about liver? Well, fatty liver disease every day and like at the show, we're at Udimonia. We've had people that were, came a year ago or three months ago. We had a guy who's big in the field. He had, he had come into London. I never met him. He's a partner, Scott's partner who's a great cellular developer. He's a cellular biologist. He develops great formulas. He had a bunch of scarring, came in two months ago in fibrosis. Level two was on deliverance for two months, popped in to get a scan, totally in the green. So we are reversing scarring and we're reversing fatty liver disease in three months, three to six months. And some of the big thought leaders in our space and family members, friends. In fact, the gentleman on the other side of the camera had stage three fatty liver disease and after two months, we reversed it as well. A lot of people in the space. So, and with fatty liver disease and 40%, two billion people on the planet are fatty liver disease. That's what's driving cardiovascular disease. That's what's driving diabetes. That's driving metabolic is, and if you Google it, they said there's no treatment for it. There's some drugs coming out, but we're not there. And we're doing it with plants and we're doing it every day. And we're so confident in the efficacy of the product that what we do is we say in an ideal scenario, go get a scan done. We can do it with one of our clinics, go to your doctor, get an MRI and or bloods, take deliverance and then as soon as 90 days, we'll test you again. So we prove the proof is in the pudding and we do that through data and evidence. So if you're left, if you're left brain, you're like, well, I saw my biomarkers this. And if you're right brain, which to some people is more important, how do I feel? You know, when you when your liver gets really healthy and you're on deliverance within minutes, you get mental clarity. And over the next couple of weeks, your skin improves, your hair improves, sleep, you lose a little bit of weight a lot of the time, you're processing better. So you can feel the difference. You can see the difference. And you can know the difference when you're looking at biomarkers. So we tie that together. And I love proving that it also, what I like about a scan is it gets people get a relationship with an organ that they don't really know. Remember, the liver doesn't have any nerve endings. So you don't really feel it. So by the time you've got a liver, if you feel your liver, you've got problems. You know, when you used to go to the doctor, they still do it, but the old school when you lay on the back and they're pushing you to, they're actually feeling your liver. That's the old school way to feel is your liver, is your chihuahua soft and squishy? Or is it stressed and intense? That's what they used to do. So, you know, we're making it soft and squishy. And we're doing that because the liver is such a holistic organ, you have to, you have to think like that. So we have to, how are we affecting the oxygen in the blood, the metabolization, what's happening with this? We're working on the spleen, the kidneys, the nutrients, opening up pathways for it to do its thing. So there's 17 ingredients. And I've had Chinese medicine doctors and herbalists be like, well, that doesn't do anything for the liver. I'm like, not by itself, no. But if I take this molecule that's in this plant, and this molecule in this plant, and I put them together, you have a completely different effect. That's chemistry. So you can't look at it through like a tunnel or a hepatologist couldn't come up with this formula. Right. Because they're looking at it as a hepatologist. You need other endocrinologists, the people that understand the brain. So that's why the formulas are incredible, because it took all these specialties and this like synchronization and collage of variants to create it. So it's not just a liver supplement is what it is. What you're saying is it's affecting the body and in so that everything is supporting better liver function. Absolutely. And I say a great way to do is delivers the hero in this whole story. And what deliverance is doing is it's optimizing the liver's function and letting the liver do its thing. So I love like anecdotes. So I'm thinking like you've given the liver like a shield and a sword and maybe some armor. And you've made that hero more robust, better defended and more emboldened to do its job. The other ingredient, the one that you feel right away, that is the that's a neurotropic. And of all the new tropics out there, this is one of the ones rare ones that you can actually feel immediately. Which one is that? That's the C and all the one part per millionth that we do. Oh, the C and all that molecule and what that's doing is no caffeine or sugar. It's increasing neurotransmission. And we have neurotransmission in the body, but most of the neurotransmissions in the brain. So what we're doing is we're increasing the neurotransmission so you're thinking clearer and faster. I originally did that to help somebody that was that was cognitively handicapped because he had fatty liver disease. But a lot of people actually just like it for that purpose. Especially like women, for instance, women circadian clock is as different than men's women tend to get an energetic dip in the afternoon, usually two to five PM, I think because we mothers. And that's a good time to take deliverance because it gives you the mental clarity. And it gives you the kind of that energy, but it's not going to affect your sleep later. And that's always a worry because you know, I take a coffee, but like if I take a coffee and I love coffee, which by the way, coffee is incredibly good for the liver. If it's good coffee, as long as I get the mold, but coffee generally is very good. So but it could affect your sleep. So I can't drink coffee after one because my sleep quality is going to go down. So that's like a really good time to take it. So we're working on so it's simplified the three things. It's a neotropic brain, optimizing liver function is two. And then thirdly, it's very, very high in antioxidants and anti-inflammatories. And we're getting into the mitochondria and invigorating the mitochondria as well. So it's immune system, liver, brain, all of those together. That's amazing. So so I do want to explain to people why this is packaged the way that it is. It's single dose. Yep. It's very special materials that you're using because we talked about microplastics a minute ago. So I want you to address this. Yes, it's the elephant in the room. Yes. So I'm addressing this on the podcast because we released this to my membership community early. Yeah. And I got all these questions back and I'm calling Siggi and I'm like, Siggi, whatever. Yeah. And that's it. That's important. Let's just knock it out of right here right now. So and somebody that's really focused on getting rid of microplastics, like I even get, I just did my second TPE total plasma exchange. Yeah. That's a great way to get rid of a lot of microplastics that we've built over a lifetime. Yeah. Is I looked at all the different ingredients. Aluminum, I was concerned about potential issues with toxicity with aluminum. Yeah. And so what we found the best solution thus far was we're looking at bioplastics, but the bioplastics degrade too quickly and they're very, very expensive. So they'll degrade into your correct and they're cost prohibitive. So what these are is I said, well, what's the best we can do right now? So it's closed loop plastic. It means it's recycled plastic. So, you know, yesterday this might have been a Frisbee. It's a deliverance bottle today. It's fully recyclable. So tomorrow it could be a medical device. So it is BPA free, very high level Korean recycled plastic that's fully recyclable with the top as well. And it preserves it. Good news is, which I haven't showed you a picture of which I will later today, is we've now cracked it. We've come out with a pharmaceutical grade amber glass with an aluminum top that has natural silicone lining. Okay, good. You saved it with a silicone. Those have come out. Yeah. And we've been working on that and trying to find a solution, but it was so expensive and breaking and we found we've nailed it now. And it was actually one of the people that really prompted us to it was Rosewood hotels in London. And they're like, oh, we love the product. It's so good. We love it. Our customers love it, but we need something better packaging. So we were able to kind of bust through and we've now got the new bottles that are coming out that are amber glass, medical grade, pharmaceutical grade, the aluminum top, no paint on the aluminum, because a lot of the aluminum could have paint on those tips. This is actually oxidized during the manufacturing process. And those are really good. I'll send you a box as soon as they're done. I just bought the machine that actually puts the caps on. That's so exciting. It's being shipped over right now. So that's super exciting. Now the reason it's liquid is if I was really like fiscally conservative and obsessed with making more profit, I would make a powder because it's cheaper. For sure. But you lose a lot of the energy, especially with plant medicine, how we work. The bioenergy is killed when you put it into a powder form. Yeah. When you pasteurize, when you pasteurize honey, you kill most of the goodness in it. It's like tea. People need to know this is about tea. Great teas have a lot of antioxidants. When you put boiling water on it, you kill most of the antioxidants. So always do like a light boil or if you can't adjust your teapot, just let it chill for a minute because you kill a lot of the goodness. Let it come off the boil. Exactly. So you do that if you try to go cheap and put it into a pill. So I spend more money on it and it costs a little more, but we keep it in liquid. And because we use all natural preservatives, there's no binders or anything like that. You just give it a shake and it tastes like peppermint and honey, which you know. It's amazing. And a cool thing is people, most people like the flavor, but the people that don't, within about a week, they do. And the reason is, is because the biofeedback kicks in and your body says this is good for you and your brain tells you, no, this taste could. Yeah. So it'll change that as well. And here's like a interesting, people like, why don't you put in a bigger bottle and you have less wastage? Yes. Well, as this is, I mean, the antioxidants in this, this would be equivalent to eating about a thousand blueberries to get the same antioxidant. And just by nature of antioxidants, the minute oxygen hits it, it starts oxidizing. So if you did a big bottle, you would do it. And without kind of disparaging them, but I know this because I asked a scientist, the guy at the Dose product, they have a huge bottle. Once you open that bottle, it's oxidizing. It's like a bottle of wine. Yeah. You over a bottle of wine, you pour it and in a day, you know, it doesn't taste as good. Day two, it's salad dressing. Day three, it's vinegar. And that's because oxygen breaks all the antioxidants down. So to keep this, I mean, that's what it's called. It's called an antioxidant elixir because there's so many antioxidants in this. And I've done that because most people get into systemic, consistent inflammatory condition where we're constantly inflamed. And oxidative stress causes inflammation. And inflammation causes more oxidative stress. So we get in this vicious cycle. Yeah. A lot of disease and a lot of doctors smarter than me will say that most disease comes from chronic inflammation. Absolutely. And I'm trying to break that cycle. So there's four different types of anti-inflammatories in here, plus a load of antioxidants. So we're trying to bust that cycle as part of the healing process. And I didn't want to create a brain product, a liver product, a menopause product, an adiux product. I said, let's just create one amazing product that can be your baseline. So like for me, I take this, I take stem regen, and then once in a while I'll do some peptides. I've learned, I've learned the most I know about peptides and bioregulate is from you. So I think that's been fantastic learning as well. And to do them properly in the quality. So we have shared a lot of the same ethos on, you know, it's not, it's not quantity, it's quality and how you're doing it and not too much and doing the right ways. So this is a great baseline for pretty much most of your needs. So anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, immune system, brain and your liver, it's just giving your powerhouse the magical liver. Everything it needs. Everything it needs. Yeah. Well, I think we're going to, next time we talk, we're going to have done a couple of experiments with deliverance and the liver bioregulator. I think that would be really interesting to see if you stack them. I would love to collaborate. I was thinking, when I saw Copenhagen Health Week and you were speaking, Cassie and I were in the front row watching you. And I had that thought I wanted to talk to you about. Actually, I didn't do it until today and I'm glad you brought that up. I would love you to help, for you to help develop for my liver clinics and for a liver health, let's put together like basically a protocol of bioregulators and peptides to help us on our mission that we're doing. 100%. I think the bioregulators are busy. Okay. I have a couple of quick fire questions for us to finish. Oh, actually last thing. So if somebody doesn't have any liver, so number one guys, if you can get imaging done so that you can get a baseline, if you need to do some work on your liver, you're going to be looking at about three months of product. If it's an extreme issue, you're going to be looking at twice a day. If it's like a moderate to mild issue, one of these a day will do the trick for you. If let's say somebody checks it out and says, okay, I don't have any liver issues. I'm still a big believer in using this at least periodically in cycles to support the liver because of all the inputs that we have coming in. Absolutely. End your skin and your hair and your immune system. We all need that anyway. And as always, do the saying is, you know, when did Noah build the Ark? Yeah. And it was before the flood. Yeah. Don't wait. No, before the rain. Yeah. So yeah, it's much easier for us to prevent you getting disease than it is once you have it. So would you say like a 30 days every three months would be nice for someone who has a very healthy lifestyle? If they're very healthy, I would do like a month on, wait a couple of months, maybe even three months. I take one every day because I, I, you're getting older and I travel. I want to keep my cholesterol low. So a lot of our patients or customers maybe are statin hesitant or don't want to go and statin. So it keeps their cholesterol imbalanced because the liver is good. It keeps your hormones imbalanced. So it is a great thing to take every day, but it's not inexpensive. So it's better to taking one is better than nothing. But if I would say either one a day or month on, month off, or, you know, a lot of people just take it if they have to drink. So if you have alcohol, take one afterwards. If you have a fatty meal, maybe you've had a medical procedure done and you've had anesthetics. So at, or you've been exposed to toxicity, maybe just use it as an ad hoc scenario. It was like a one-off. Yeah, keep it in the house. Yeah, do that too. Yeah. Yeah. Next to your life. But if you have a really fatty meal, I'll take one too. And if you're taking Tylenol, maybe take one of those. Yeah. Okay. What's the most boring thing you can think of that someone can do to support their liver? The most boring? One boring thing that's super inexpensive that anybody can start doing today to support their liver. Stay properly hydrated and drink more water. Great. Because I love water, but it's boring. What's a healthy habit that quietly trashes liver health? A healthy habit. A supposedly healthy habit. It's not really healthy, but something that people are doing that they think is healthy. Well, probably people, people that exercise and don't get proper nutrition right afterwards too, because when the benefit of exercise is not the exercise, it's the recovery. And a lot of people exercise, they don't eat afterwards or do things afterwards to properly support or replace those lost supplement, those lost nutrition. I think that's something a lot of people forget to do, which is incredibly important. Love it. You touched on coffee a minute ago, but very quickly, coffee in the liver, friend or foe and how much? Absolutely best friend. So coffee is a very good antioxidant. And there's a couple of huge NIH studies. If you drink two cups of coffee a day, you have a 44% less likely chance of getting liver cancer. If you drink four cups of coffee, you have a 66% less chance. So one thing it does for antioxidant, and when you get a scan with us, or an MRI, we always say like a fibroscope, we say don't drink coffee for two to three hours before. The reason is because it brings so much blood into the liver, we don't get as good of a reading. But that's another good thing that coffee is doing when you're drinking coffee, more blood is going to the liver and the more blood in the liver, better. You want more blood and more water in the liver so that it's functioning really, really well. Just think of it like a beautiful waterfall versus like a river that's clogged. That's why you get a phase three. Oh, that's going to back up. Yeah, I love it. But there is a point of diminishing return on coffee. So this is not your permission slip to have 10 coffees a day. No, it's one to four. Okay. One to four. And what you add to the coffee makes all the difference. That's why I like that. Like some of those Starbucks drinks are like diabetes drink. I call them diabetes drinks. And artificial dyes and all this too. Oh, this is super important, which I, and everybody needs to know this too. So we were noticing a lot of people that were having fatty liver disease were teenagers. We do a whole family like in England. We'd go and do like a whole family. We do this a lot. And you do the parents and they drink wine and they eat meat, little fatty, which is normal. Some of the staff and then the teenagers were like phase three, fat, a stage three fatty liver disease, pre diabetic, all this. And the common thing we kept seeing was their consumption of diet soda. So diet soda, like what? Well, this makes sense. So the liver is inherently intelligent, like I said. So think of the liver is like, you know, defending you all day. And it understands sugar and fat. It knows how to deal with you. And if you give an aspirate protein or these chemicals that it does not know what it is, it's like, that is a bigger threat. I'm going to let the sugar and the fat go by while I deal with this unknown threat. And what happens though, even though their person's consuming less sugar and fat, what they are consuming is being stored because it's getting through. So it's accumulating. So we were seeing much more fatty liver disease with people that were drinking diet soda. And most people thought it was bananas when I was saying this. And a study just came out that Dr. Gareth found which I'll send you as well. And in this big study, you have a 38% higher chance of getting fatty type two diabetes, drinking diet soda than regular. Wow. And that could be the healthy habit that people think. That's a healthy habit. Is diet, oh, it's saying diet. Yeah. Because it says diet because there's no sugar. That's the thing. You know, people think this is my healthy swap. Yeah. And they drink 10 of them. Yeah. So that is a huge, so your diabetes risk is is exploding. And you're storing more fat. You're actually putting more weight on and you're putting chemicals into the body. A good rule of thumb and not to be crass, but you need to keep people with it. If it says fat free diet or light, just think chemical shit storm and avoid anything. I love it. Okay. Last one is one alcohol rule that is realistic and protective. I think I know what it is, but you talked about it a minute ago. So if you do drink alcohol, if you choose, if you just can't let it go right now, yeah, or you drink it a moderation, or you know, it's like I come from a wine culture. So why drinking wine is important with the family, you know, drink a lot of water at the same time. 100%. Very important. Don't mix it with certain pharmaceuticals. Don't drink too much of it. And key is if you do, let's say, if you do gonna have spirits, for instance, and somebody just really wants spirits, the healthiest way to do it is to have like a five, four or five times distilled vodka or like a high level tequila with soda water and some lemon. The worst is when you take like a cheap vodka and you put it like Red Bull or like raw or like diet soda, like a diet soda and like a Jack Daniels is like like explosion of bad things. Yeah. Yeah. So the cleanest to do is like a, you know, a clean vodka, soda and some lemon, have one and always have a drink of water. A good rule is this is also good for habit, because if you drink a glass of water for every drink you have, you get full quicker, so you don't drink as much. So if you've got a problem with your on off switch, chug a pint of water for every drink and you'll fill up and you won't, you just won't, you get full. Yeah. And you know, you won't say this, but I will have this at home and have one of these with the glass of water before bed. Yes. You will feel much better in the morning. Or if you have a low tolerance, if you take it before, your liver's functioning so well that you break alcohol down quicker, so you don't get as drunk. So if you've got to go maybe a business function and you're like, I got to have some drinks or, you know, social awkwardness, or maybe I'm East Asian and I don't break alcohol down quick, take it before and you mitigate the damage and it's broken down and got rid of quickly. If not, take it afterwards. I take it afterwards. As they say, in the words of Hemingway, I drink to make other people more interesting and it's all the idea of my own social anxiety is I have like a drink just to kind of like relax and then I always drink in water though. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. This has been a great conversation. That was fun. We got some sun. We got some sun. We got it all done. This is great. Where do people find you? Where do they find deliverance? We have a great offer for the audience. Yes. I'll put together a discount code for your audience so they get something because I know you've got an amazing audience and we're friends. So I'll give you a discount code but loveyourliver.com. So just think loveyourliver, which we all need to be doing, just dot com. So loveyourliver.com. I think we have a page. I think it's loveyourliver.com forward slash nat. Okay, perfect. Yeah. So forward slash nat, we'll get you to the page. You'll get a beautiful discount and it actually even does stack. Last time I looked, it stacked on top of the subscription. Yes. So you get that on top. So subscription, you get 10% off. You get another 10% off with your subscriptions. So that knocks 20 off it as well. Yeah. So it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Sigi, thank you so much. Also on social media. It's deliverance underscore elixir. There it is. Deliverance under it. It's a beautiful page, actually. I encourage you guys to check that out. Cassandra manages it too and I hope I didn't watch the name. I think it's deliverance underscore elixir. We'll put it in the show notes. We'll put everything in the show notes. So if you go to the, if you're listening to this and you go and it doesn't work, it's okay. Just go to the show notes. It'll be there. Perfect. We got you. Cool. Thank you so much. Sigi, this is been amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. Love your liver. Love you too. Hey, folks, just a quick reminder that all of the information presented in this podcast is for information purposes only. No medical advice, no diagnosing, no treatments suggested here. Before you try anything that you hear about or learn about here, make sure that you check with your medical provider.