4.1. The Fresh Start Episode

What's up? It's 2026 and it's an all new episode of Nobody Asked Us. A Desiree Lindon presented by Brooks Runney. What's up? Party fists right there. That was great. One breath. One breath. Show with all the energy and enthusiasm. Well done, Carol. Starting the new year off right. Yeah, we are. It's a big deal. This is the first time I've said 2026. Yeah. This is the season where you write down the wrong year on everything for at least a month, right? Yeah. Good month or so. You're like, damn it. Every check, every form. Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever write down something wrong on a USADA paper and then go to scratch it out? Yeah. Well. And then they shred your face. They're like, no, you got to start over. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. It's been a long time since I filled out the USADA paper. Me too. But I just like thinking about it. That's the first thing I thought of. You got to cross it out and they're like, oh my God, you idiot. Yeah. And they're like, no, you have to start all over. Thanks. Things I won't make. But then they got iPads and that was a big win. Yeah. Well, that's the funny thing about the USADA growth in my career was that it used to be like you'd fill out these forms and fax them in. Oh, wow. And like, yeah. And if you were like going to be gone, you'd have to like fax it. So we had to get a fax machine just so we could fax USADA. And then. Did you have to do daily wearabouts? We had to do. Yeah. It was like weekly. It was kind of like it was now, but it was still pretty broad. But like if you're like, oh, I'm going to attract me and I didn't have that in my calendar when I turned it in four months, three months ago or two months ago, you'd be like faxing in your changes. And then you were able to like text an email and then you're able to access the website. And then like eventually upgrades of technology. Yeah. And then so that's when people are like, oh, I didn't upgrade my USADA. I'm like, you literally can do it right now. Right. You have up to the minute. Yeah. Up to the minute before. Stop talking and just do it now. Yeah. That's wild work. Interesting. Yeah. 226. All the tech. How was your new year? It was good. I'm trying to think. We just really haven't been doing anything exciting, which is kind of perfect. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's been super low-key. We've been getting a good amount of snow, which has been fun. And the dogs have been doing a lot of running. So they just like go out, tear around, and then they're like absolutely crashed for the rest of the day. It's just this routine, this cycle. And I feel like I almost feel like they're looking at us like, please stop. I don't want to go again. Because they're so tired. And then the next day. They're getting fit. Yeah. The next day they go out and the same thing. Is it still pretty icy there? Is there enough snow now that you got something to grip? Today. Last night we got some good snow. I haven't run outside in a while because I've just, I hate coming back after a break after New York because the weather dramatically changes in that time. In the for, I just like, I don't want to be cold. It's just terrible. So I've been running on the treadmill. We don't have the Peloton treadmill here. We have this really terrible one that the screen works like 10% of the time. The pace is like plus minus something. So I just kind of go by heart rate. And it's all, it's like, it's a crap shoot. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm putting in time. Is there any sort of indoor facility or indoor running arena near you at all? No. Actually, my college coach at one point was looking at buying a building to try and build something out here. And I don't know if he couldn't find the right spot or it was like, wasn't big enough, but no. But I think today, I think I might do an afternoon run. And I think that the, the, because Ryan's running outside every day because he doesn't care. And he takes the dogs and he was like, no, it's pretty good today. So it's like a little bit grippy. So it's like a little bit grippy. We got a couple, we got like six inches last night. Wow. That's good snow. Yeah. So I think that this afternoon might be, might be the day. When we were in Duluth, my niece is getting ready for some indoor races. So she had worked out getting onto the indoor track at University of Minnesota, Duluth, which is really like a hard rubber surface. And so we tagged along and I have to tell you, my first ever track meet for the high school in seventh grade when I was 12 years old was in this field house. That's right. Because track starts in the tracks are still covered with snow. And I walked in there. It's only 160 meters or 162 meters. Isn't it? But I walked in and the smell is like, it just took me back. It's like nothing has changed in 35 years. Like it was crazy. It smells the same. I was jogging in the outside. My, I mean, I got track hacked and I didn't do a single stride or anything. It's just dry. It's just dry in there. Something fast. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, it is so crazy how it just like something's never changed. So that was your primary indoor training facility? Well, I never got to train in there or anything. So like I, we would, our first meet of the year was always in there because the tracks weren't melted yet. Usually like on spring break, we'd be, if you were, if you weren't lucky enough to go on spring break trip, which I never was, we would meet and shovel the track over spring break. Love that. So we would always have one meet in the indoor facility at UMD to start the year. And it's, like I said, it's, it's, it's like a rubber surface. Like my nieces were wearing spikes and they were like, oh no. Running around. It's like, that sounds painful. But it was always really fun and it felt fast because it was on this little track and it was just like, you know, you were like excited to get in there and finally start the racing season. That is the very first race I ever ran for the high school was in that facility. And I can't remember if I was running a 32, it must have been a 3,200. And I was running behind my babysitter who is the senior. She wasn't my babysitter anymore, but she had babies at me. And we were like running and finally she just goes, Kara, just pass me. You know, like, and so I did and she was super nice. And I still see her in town when I'm in town. She's still so nice to me. And she was like, gave me this big, it was a really good like learning lesson of like, you'd want to be respectful, but racing is racing, you know, for sure. Yeah. Um, but anyway, I just had a really great flashback to babysitting story from last summer. Oh, from you? No, from you. I won't even bring it up, but it was it was epic. The Minnesota babysitting scene is insane. And all the babysitters are so polite. Did I tell you about honor pod retreat? No, it was a different time. Did I tell you on here? No, no, no, it wasn't on here. It was this was way too aggressive. Sorry, let's move on. I swear it was a good babysitter. There was just one very significant incident. Everyone lived. It's fine. Everyone. Barely, but not just kidding. Okay, what did you get up to when you guys go? Did you party? Did you stay up late? Did you stay up till midnight? Kind of accidentally. So that was the last night that my sister and her kids were in town from my sister who lives in Oregon. So the kids wanted to go down by the lake and I am not afraid of the lake. I trust it. I know it's frozen. So I'm the one that's willing to go walk across the lake with the kids. So we would. The deepest lake. I mean, in the deepest place, it's probably, I mean, it's not a deep lake in general. It's like five to eight feet deep most of the lake. There are a few spots where it's like 18 feet, but I mean. You're not going to follow. You're not going to find it. You could drive a car in there right now. Seriously. But I get it. It moans. And so it's like, it can be scary, but the kids were down there and they wanted to walk around the lake and my sister was like, oh, I mean, it was like negative 25 or something. And she's like, fine. And then we went down there and the lake was moaning. And so then a couple of the kids got scared, but Colt is like me and is not scared to our own detriment. And then so we went and walked around with my niece Molly and everyone else kind of played in the snow. And then we were all going to go to bed at like 10. And then we actually went to bed at like 1145. And then at midnight, we were all like just yelling, happy new year from various places in my mom's house. So it was not, it was super fun because we were outside and the kids were playing, but it was, it was not a party scene whatsoever. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. In fact, I think I had a couple beers and I'm the only person that drank out of everybody that was there. You drank alone? I drank alone. Let's chat while we're in Houston. Let's get on top of this. It was like, it's new you see? I went to the, I went to the, that was the day that we did the indoor track workout. Oh yeah. I was like, I don't want to have beer one night, it's new year's eve. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I know. You have to quench the throat after an indoor session. Yeah, I tried to have a cat. It'll help. Yeah. Yeah, no, guilty as well. I was, I was in bed 1150, 1145. So yeah, we didn't make it, but we got a good decent snow that day because we have buddies who always do a really big firework show, which is kind of epic. And we're like, we're not going to drive over there. We're not going to stand outside because it's freezing and they're not going to be able to have them tonight. Like it was windy. Oh yeah. Not crazy bad. Like we're on the lake, so the wind always seems 20 times worse. They're just a little bit back of it, but they have a like sit up high and have a good view. But they apparently got them all off, which was great for them, but unfortunate for us because we stayed home. Did you hear it? No. A little too far away. Okay. Yeah, but. Nice for them. Yeah. So yeah, we yelled at each other just next to each other. Dogs. Rivers has a ball that lights up that he brings to bed every night, which is insane. So like four in the morning, he'll just start playing with it and like the whole room will light up. I think you guys should just leave that outside the room. You can't. No, he's obsessed. He is obsessed. So if you move it anywhere, like he won't, he won't go to sleep. So like, they'll just be playing around with it at four in the morning. I'm like, can you like the whole room will light up? Party ball is what he had. And so, you know, midnight party, bowling off. All right. It's great. Yeah. Yeah. Good times. That's good. Yeah. I like that time of year where like nothing's going on. I mean, it was a little bit stressful because of our house situation, which I've had a lot of people in the comments asking about my house and I seriously appreciate it. I think I said it on the last pod. There were three, three leaks in the walls, four under the house. They've all been patched and now the putting back of the house is taking place. So the putting back of the putting back together. So the obviously the exterior where it where it was coming out the bottom of the house and we don't have a basement or anything. That's been, I think that was starting to be worked on this week. Re-insulating everything. And then the inside, putting the walls back together and all that good stuff. I think starts next week. So it's not done, but we never were able to spend the night there. Anything which kind of sucked. But it was also fun because I was with my mom and my sister all the time. So that was nice too. I would have just would have rather that she invited me to sleep over and that Yeah, that's a better situation. But you know, it worked out. Yeah. Well, at least you had the spot to go over to that would have been real warmer if she was like 10 towns over or you didn't have anyone there. She's literally 200 meters down the driveway. So it all worked out. But yeah, a lot of people asking. So it's not fixed yet, but it will be. And that's that's pretty much the only update because I won't see it again until this summer. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. Not on the mind until the summer. I just we just keep getting the bill. I don't care. Just fix it. And then this summer, hopefully everything's great. Yeah, it will be that. Well, that's good. What else did you guys get up to? You did some running indoors. Did you do anything outside? Is that I think I saw a video or yeah, I like running outside. You're a tracker, huh? So I use pins now. I used to use the extracts, which is my like I love yacht tracks, but I break them so easily. Okay. So I switched to pins a few years ago, like wetmores into like these chain things, but I don't like them. Yeah, this do North brand. I really like their pins because they don't I can run if you cross pavement or if you do hit like road. They can barely feel them. You know what I mean? So is this a contraption you put on the shoe? Yeah. Yeah. And so I just I like that the boys have them. I have them. I mean, I wear them a lot more than they do, but and it just makes me feel I mean, obviously if it's sheer ice, I'm not that crazy. I'll just like take the day off. We don't have a treadmill up there. Or if I'm that desperate, I'll like go to the gym or something, you know, but so there were like, there was a day that I took off because it was like, when we first got there was actually a little bit warm and then it was rain that eventually turned into snow. But at first it was just like a sheet of ice and I went out and I slipped like three times and I'm like, well, this is dumb, you know, plus the more I slept, the worse my dystonia is. But in general, if there's a lot, if it's packed snow, I actually really, really like running on that. And I wear my pins and I just like being, I like, I don't know. I like the cold. I'm weird. Well, you, I feel like you are, you've said this before you run super hot, like you'll be in a tank top and I'll be in a long sleeve with a sweatshirt over it. Yeah. Yeah, you know, so there was the last day I ran there. It was like negative 22 with windshield. Probably like, I can't remember negative five or six regular. And I have to say, I was wearing just the Brooks fleece line tights. That's it on the bottom. It's legit. I don't think I've ever done anything more than a pair of tights. Yeah. I mean, when on the way out, it was pretty windy and I was like, well, I could have used like a thin pair of pants over this. Like my hammies are a little cold, but by the time I warmed up, I was fine. And so, and then even on top, like I just was wearing a Brooks thermal shirt and a jacket. But then I am a wuss about, I need a neck gaiter. That makes like all the difference. And then I tuck it up on top of my hat so it stays up, but it kind of goes under my chin. And then a little Vaseline on the nose. Vaseline. Yeah. You know, one of my least favorite things about winter running, like the slipping, whatever, like I don't like to fall, what it's cold, all of it's manageable. One of my least favorite things that no one talks about is when you start to freeze up. And you're like, wow, I didn't know that I got so warm there. Or like that I had a rogue hair there. Like it's just so revealing. And I'm like, why is there frost there? Oh my, you know? Oh my gosh, that's so funny. You ever notice that? It's just, yeah, you're like, oh, I don't like where I'm freezing up. Yeah. Why, thanks for letting me know guys. Yeah. When I first moved back to Boulder, like the winters in Oregon are so mild, right? Like, yes, it's rainy and it's gray. But it's so rare that it's truly cold. And I moved back to Boulder. My first run is a long run and I am so overdressed as like, I am like dressed like it's negative 22 out and I'm running and I'm sweating profusely, but it is cold though. It's probably like 20 something. And when I finished my jacket had like ice in it, like actual like, yeah, because I was sweating so much. Yes, it had chunks. I was like, okay, I need to relearn how to dress for the elements here. I definitely didn't need this jacket that is making me sweat even more. Yeah, when a running is really revealing, like you'll get like a little frost on your face and you're like, wow, cool. I didn't need to know that. Great. I that's like what I do as I'm running. I'm just sort of like maintaining like, especially if I'm running with Ryan, like, oh no, get that later. Yeah. Or like it's like someone's running next to you and like, oh, they're butt cracks frosty. Yours is too. Yeah. I know. It is very revealing. I don't, I just like it. I like I'd rather be cold than hot. I don't know. I think, you know, that's just where I grew up. And so I didn't even know that you didn't have to live like that till I went to college. Yeah. No, it's like natural part of the seasons. Just like just dress warm. You know, like you just go with the time of year and then I went to college and I was like, oh, you don't have to have snow like piled higher than your car on the side of the road. Like that doesn't have, you don't, people don't have to live like that. I can choose to live somewhere else. But I agree. I actually, I do enjoy it. I think it's, it's peaceful because not a lot of people do it. I think when you get to the trails like first and it's runnable, it's really fun. Yeah. There's a lot of pros to it too. I feel like I'm just being a sissy right now. But I don't do it. I was there for a week. If I was there like long term, I might be different, right? But I like going in the morning, I like seeing all the tracks from all the deer. I just, I don't know. I really like it and like hard, I never see anyone else out running. I see them in the summer, but not this time of year. So I don't know. And it's just like with all the snow, it's like this dampened quiet. You know, and I like that. Listen, I don't want to live in be freezing my butt off all the time. It's just, I enjoy it when I'm there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Maybe that's, I feel like right now, maybe that's, it's knowing how much is left. Yes. Just not ready to be in it yet. But the other thing is the last, well, I did a couple of snow runs this season. And the last one was like, someone had skied on my trail. And then it snowed on top of it, but it had frozen in this, the divots. So like when you go matters to you, so you're just like dipping into their tracks. I'm like, ah, this trail's ruined for a while. I know. And then that just kind of, it was like onto the treadmill. That's what's funny is that's what happens here in Boulder when it snows is I'm a person who, as soon as it starts snowing, I go outside. I love running while snow is falling. It's one of my favorite, favorite phenomenons. But then two days later, when it's all iced over and bumpy, I'm like assholes. Yeah, you ruined it. It was good for 30 days. Even though I'm the person that also went out and did it. I'm like, dang it. Now it's going to be, I see for like two weeks, you know, even though I'm just as guilty because I love to do it too. Well, let's talk a little bit about fitness during this season, because I think that that's such a heart. It's just everyone's kind of in it right now, right? And you're going like, should I be outside? Should it be on the treadmill? How am I going to get fit? What does this mean? What type of fitness are people gaining? Make a case for running in the snow versus skipping it versus getting on a treadmill? Where are you going? Why are you doing it? I think like I've evolved over this. Like I grew up where you just didn't really run in the winter because it was really hard. So you just switched and skied and then you switched back to running and we didn't think that deeply. It was like, oh, well, there's snow on the ground. So now we're going to Nordic ski. And then I went to college and I remember I'd come back. It would be sometimes almost three weeks that I would be in Duluth. And I remember my coach went more, would always be like, don't stress about your mileage or paces or any workout when you're there. You're going to, you know, like you have days where it's negative 40, you're going to have days where it's nice. Like when you get a good day, go do a fart, like do like two minutes on, three minutes off, or go for a longer run, but just do what you can and don't stress. Like your body and your heart is not going to know the difference when you get back to Boulder. It's not going to say, well, she never got on a track or this or that, you know? And that was such great advice. And it's so true. I'd always come back and I'd be fine. I could keep up with all my teammates that were in milder climates. But then I moved to a different situation with Salzar and Schumacher, who are both really like, you got to hit the pace and you got to hit the mileage. And if you're three, you know, if you're three miles under, if you're five seconds slower per mile, you've ruined everything. Season's over. Yeah. And so I became kind of like obsessed and I would always go find a treadmill and all this stuff. And I guess it's easier because I'm on the other side of it now too. I'm not preparing for a race, but I've really realized how that's so, it's not true. Your body doesn't know the different. And I went for a run, like we said, it was negative 20 out. I can't go run six, 20 pace, even if I'm in great shape. It's, it's not good for my muscles because they're fighting so hard to stay warm. It's not even safe, right? But so like the effort though is the effort and it's okay to have that effort be where it is. I think about the last few years where it's super icy and I don't feel comfortable running and the kids will go sledding. And while they're sledding, I'll just hike up the sledding hill and jog down, hike up and down while they're doing that for like 45 minutes. My body doesn't know that I didn't run that day. You know what I mean? So it's just had me thinking about how, and I will admit that I have the luxury of, I don't have a race on the calendar in three weeks or in four weeks or something like that. But I sometimes think we overdo it trying to compensate for the weather. And it's okay to adjust things and be a little bit more flexible in the winter. And your body doesn't know that you didn't hit those 400s perfectly or that your long run was a mile short. Like it really does it. Right. I think I always remind myself in this season that hard work is hard work. Yes. Right. Which is what you're saying. And it's so like, I mean, I'll look at my watch afterwards and it's like 840 pace, which I'm usually running 640. And if you read into every little thing, it gets really hard to be motivated and get out the door. So time on feet, effort, those things all like your body just knows stress. It doesn't know why. So I remind myself of those things. But you're right. It is different when you're like, I know a lot of people are getting ready for Boston right now or getting ready for London or Marathon's coming up and there's some balance to it, I think. So you can do some of that stuff. But at the same time, if you can do your sessions or find your pace or remind your body every now and then, that helps too. Yeah. I think it's interesting. I think about when I ran it to you, we didn't have a proper indoor facility. And so sometimes we would be planning on doing a hard session on the track Friday and we get a snowstorm. And then it would just get canceled and it would be like hit a treadmill or go on the creek path for an easy hour. And when I was back here training for the Olympic trials in 2016, see you got this beautiful indoor facility. It's a 300 meter track. It's amazing. But there's never a day like that and the injury rate on the team went up. Because the weather naturally forced you to back off once or twice a month. And it made you be a little bit more in tune with your body. But when you don't have that, you just can always force it. I felt like, and I saw it. I mean, even what more would say, they got more injured those winters when they got the new facility versus before. Because he never said, just don't worry about it. Go run an easy, slow hour. I don't care how fast it is. I don't care how far you go. Those days were gone. So I think about that too. Especially if you are training for Boston or London and you live in a challenging climate, it is better to err on the side of caution. I know you want to be as fit as can be. It's like, again, what we're used to just saying, you're going home. You're not going to lose fitness. You may not gain fitness, but you're not going to lose it. I think there is some people, I mean, I think that you surprise yourself too. I think you might be gaining fitness. You just don't have that conversion. I think about JP Flavin who's doing his marathon project segment in Michigan and it's cold and they're getting a couple of days of snow. And he's dealing with those challenges and he might not see the splits, but when he's already fit going into that, it's not a toughness thing, but I think it's just extra work that doesn't beat you up. I'm thinking of it like, I don't know, it was like ultra G, boost treadmill or it's like, you're still doing it. You're just not actually damaging yourself as much because it's just more work to lift your feet out of snow or stay upright. You're engaging different things. And then you do get that good day. You get the pavement that's dry and all of a sudden you're like a fucking superhero and you're like, oh, I am fit. So I guess the point to all that is it is adding up and you are getting fit. You just have to trust that it's working. And then when you get your good days, you get to see it. So I don't know. I think it's another thing where I think about the marathon and the amount of patience it takes. It's one of those one more way to remind you to stay patient because when you get the good footing, when the weather does start to turn, it's there. It's still there. Yeah. I think like it's just this time of year in general stuff, like with all the holidays and like trying to get together with family and friends and doing all the things. I saw so many people on social media just stressing out about finding the right facility or not getting their workout in and I get it. I don't want to say like, oh, you guys are crazy because I trust me. I used to get up at the butt crack of dawn. No, it wouldn't even be light out. I'd be with a headlamp on Christmas to go get in my super long workout. So I'd be back by eight 30. So everybody else could get up at a reasonable time to enjoy stand thought, you know, like I get it. But I also think sometimes when I look back, I didn't need to stress as much as I did, you know, and maybe I did more harm than good. It was one thing when the Olympic trials were January 14th that one year, that's different, you know, like sure, trying to make an Olympic team. We didn't even acknowledge Christmas happened. Colt was so little he didn't even know and we celebrated it afterwards and he got a full Christmas, but he got it like January 20th or something, you know, but so there's times where yeah, you have to be super focused. But I think like part of that, as you said, the marathon is patience and being able to adapt like nothing is ever going to go exactly how you imagine it's going to go not even in the race itself. So it's like these little challenges of whether or family things that ran later than you thought, like adapting to that and not like, not building up this mess of anxiety because things didn't go exactly how you wanted like these are good things to learn how to do, you know. Yeah, no, that makes a ton of sense. And again, it's like if the anxiety adds to stress, stress is stressed, right? So you're just making those days even more taxing on the body. Yeah, but all of that's easier said than done. I'm not saying that's an easy thing to just let go. What kind of sessions are you doing in the winter if you're if you are in the snow? Obviously in the past, but if you're doing some now, like what stuff makes sense or what do you think mentally you could be like, I can do this and not freak out about the watch or numbers. I'm really big on fart like, yeah, like really big on fart like, I mean, that's a, and I granted that's because I went to Colorado where we did a lot of fart like so we'd start off the air runs out of shape and be one minute on four minutes off and then be two minutes on three minutes off and eventually three minutes on, you know, then it would go all the way to four minutes on one minute off. But I really like fart like because you it's, I mean, it's kind of like hill repeats, like it's really up to you to do the pushing because no one really knows how hard your effort is. But I think it's a good way to push yourself where you can just throw the clock away or not, well, you have the clock, but not you're not stressing about your pace and mileage. And I also really like if you can just find a good hill that has good traction or just like I can think of the place by our house in Minnesota, it always has good footing. It's about 200 meters. And I use that all the time. Like even when I was there, I would warm, I run three miles, make sure I was really good and warm. And I'm not timing any of this, but I'm running from there to there as hard as I can thinking about having good knee lift. And so it's, it's like, that would be the same as like doing repeats on the track, but it's not or the fart like is the same as doing repeat, you know, 400s or 800s or Ks, but it's not, but it is. Right. You know, are you ever looking at your watch during that? Like I think that's for me, one of the problems with fart licks is I'm just like, well, I know I'm off pace, or I know this isn't, you know, and then you start to think about the pace versus just running hard. Yeah, I think I am, I don't like to look at the pace because it's, it'll just make me spiral. Right? Like when I was in college or even as a professional, if I'm doing a two minute push, it, it should be sub five minute pace and it's not if I look. And I just have to like, you know, and I think that's, that is one thing. And I know I've talked about this before, but I think that for a lot of us runners, we've got so addicted to seeing the pace that we've forgotten to learn how to like listen to our body of like, am I running hard enough right now? And so that would kind of be my challenge to people is like, when the weather is bad, or it's snowy, and you're going to be using extra miles because you are going to sink in a little bit, and you are going to be wearing extra layers. Like, wear an old fashioned timex if you have one, and really just try to get in touch with, what does it feel like when I'm running race effort? Like, am I running that right now? Like, what does that actually feel like? Because I think a lot of us have short circuited our own intrinsic data and our own ability to listen to ourselves. And I feel lucky because I grew up wearing a freaking swatch watch and my coach would be like, go run 30 minutes. I'd be like, well, it's 322, you know, we'll flip that 337, and then we'll come back. And so I, you know, I really had to learn that stuff. And I think like, I'm not sure that Cole can do that. He has a garment, he's at a garment forever. And, you know, I don't know how good he is at those sorts of lessons because I'm not with him at practice, but he always has this, this data. There's some other feedback, right? But it's like, you should be able to say, how hard can I go for a minute that's manageable knowing that I'm going to get two minutes recovery and then I'm going to do it 10 times. Like, you should be able to kind of be able to feel that, you know? Yeah. See, I'm terrible at that stuff. And I've never liked Fartlix because I just am like, I have to run so hard because I'm probably running too slow. So I need to pick it up. And then like by number three or number four, like, oh no, those were hard enough. I'm now I can't finish the workout. So there's the other side of it. It's like, you still have to be patient, smart about your workout, where if it's a full session, you're not going too hard all out in that first one. And then you can't finish the session. So again, it's going back to patients of like, okay, I have to be smart about how I approach this, which is something that I need to be better at. Well, I think if it's like a pace thing, you have the governor and you're like, well, of course, I wouldn't go out, you know, under 240 for the first rep of 15, 800s. Like that would be crazy. So yeah, I mean, I think it's a learning thing. But those are all good things to practice. And you have an opportunity in the winter where it's like, Hey, this is not ideal, but let's see if I can get better at this other thing. Yeah, I think that winter is a good time to like work on those basics, like learning how to read your body, like what is my breathing like when I'm at my max? So what are my arms feel like? It's a really good chance to do hills, like to do a far like just these basic workouts that we do when we're kids. And then we tend to move away from, it's just a good chance to work on that stuff. And I honestly, if you're running the Houston marathon on January 11th, right? No, yeah, it's a little bit different need to be a little bit more dialed in. But I think, I don't know, I think it's good to sometimes embrace the doubt, not the down season, because you're training for Boston or London or something, but the imperfections, because I think it makes you a better athlete. Well, it's definitely the early season for spring marathons, right? Now is the time to just work on the fundamentals, as you said, and like getting the base mileage or time on feet or whatever that is. The other thing is, if it carries into the mid season to late season, you're right, you do have to adjust, but you can then use the tools like the treadmill and say, you know what, I need to go downhill a bit, let me get on the treadmill, let me set it downhill and get the quads ready, and start adding those things in a little bit more controlled environment. So it's balancing the two. And I do think that shifts as you get to the mid season, and then hopefully the weather shifts as you get to the final finish. And as you get to the mid season, if the weather hasn't shifted, that is the time to invest in the gym pass, because you want to get on that treadmill, and you want to feel that race specificity, and you want to make sure you're dialed in on it, right? At least from a mental component, right? Like you want to get on there and go, oh, this stuff that I have been doing is working, or let's spend more time on here getting comfortable at pace, so yeah, that shift happens too. How are you on treadmills? I know you use the lever a lot. Do you like the treadmill? Do you feel comfortable on treadmills? I used to hate treadmills, like hate, like that's why I'll go run a negative 22 degree weather rather than get on a treadmill. I've never owned a treadmill in Minnesota, which is actually kind of funny because of all the places that's where you think you'd want it. Like my sister, I said, her daughter's getting ready for some races, and she's like, well, you have a treadmill in your garage, right? And I was like, no. And she was like, what? All these years of professional running, I just never got one. But I don't like the treadmill. I will say it's gotten a lot easier now because now you can watch a million shows and all that stuff that when I was younger, it was just like listening to music or something. I don't love it. But for me, it's more of, you know, my body was tense when I got back from Minnesota because I did all of my running outside. And there was a couple of days I took off and like I said, I will just like hike up the hill and jog down in my bit boots and everything while the kids are sledding. And I'm like, it's a workout. I mean, I moved my body for 40 minutes. It doesn't know any different. But every time I did run, it was icy and it was cold. And I did have pins. And even though I slowed down, I was a little bit more tense, you know? So I got back and I was like, ooh, everything's a little sore. And it was just like, I probably should have been stretching taking the time to stretch, which I never did because I just get back and like jump into some family thing. I should have been, you know, like all those little things that you do when you care about your performance. Maybe, you know, I should have gotten some body work or something. But really, I just should have taken the time to stretch. It does change. Like it's not a perfect tradeover, right? Because my stride is definitely a little bit shortened because I don't want to slip. So I don't want to be super, I don't want to be loppy with my stride, not that I can anyway anymore. But everything's a little bit more tightened up because I want to be aware. So I think that that does wear on you. Oh, no, you're asking me about treadmill. Sorry, I'm like going on a tangent. That's okay. But I think that's an interesting thing. If you are doing this winter grind, then maybe and you're getting ready for a race, like body work becomes a little bit more important. Oh, for sure. All the little things become so it's a little nod as well. But go back to the treadmill thing. Oh, what's funny is that I got, we caught home Saturday night. And so yesterday, I ran on our treadmill and I was so tight, my hamstrings, my quads, everything. But I was in the lever. And so I did try to focus on having as long of a stride as possible. And today I feel great. So it's like, it's almost like the treadmill helped me get out of that funk. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you can turn over in your normal pattern, right? Yeah. So I think, I mean, I think it's just like using all the tools that you have at your hands, right? Yes. And I think it's seeing the value in different tools because I think some people get so locked into like, well, if you don't go outside and run at six in the morning, then you just don't care. It doesn't like matter if you have headphones in while you, and it's like, none of that, the miles are the miles. Hard work is hard work. And there's a place for going outside and being tough and, you know, trudging through some snow and gaining strength and all of those things can be valuable. But there's also a place for, hey, you know what, you've been running this form, it's awkward, like you need to loosen up, you need to get back to your pattern, you need to understand what this pace is going to mean. And so maybe use this other tool. And yeah, there's not one that's wrong or better or they're just different tools. Totally. And I do want to say sometimes it is not safe to go outside. And just try to be, it's like, we went, flew in to the cities first and spent the night at my friend's house, woke up to a sheet of ice. And I was like, I don't care. We have to drive up to Duluth. I'm just going to run three miles slow. And I got on her driveway and almost, yeah, I was like, and then I still was like, Oh, maybe I'll just like walk as joggish. And I got to the end of the block. And I was like, what am I doing? I'm taking today off. Today is not happening. And that's the tool for that day, right? Like if you don't have the treadmill and you don't have like good footing, then it's a recovery day. And that's significantly more valuable than going out and cracking your ass. And getting hurt. Yeah, like falling, breaking my wrist or like tweaking my knee. It was just like this, you know, it was like the third day that I hadn't done anything. And so I was like, no, I have to do something today. And then it was just like, no, I actually can't. This is actually not safe. And yeah, so I thought I was taking a couple days off. Now I'm taking three. It's just a little extra recovery. And when I go to run my 5k, whenever I do it this year, it's not going to remember that I took three days off and set it to, you know what I mean? Did you feel like you're fitness dropped after that third day? When you went for your run on the fourth day, were you completely out of shape? Did you regret? Did you regret that third day? But I totally get that feeling, I will say, because I used to be much more neurotic and I've really relaxed as I've gotten away from racing and as I've gotten older. So I want to say that I genuinely understand that feeling, but absolutely not. I had got good footing the next day. I was only going to go three miles. I ended up going almost six and I felt great. Were you making up for the mileage? No, no, I was just like, because we were had a snowstorm coming in and I was like, well, I don't know if I'm going to be able to run tomorrow and I feel good. I was punishing myself. That's the other thing. Don't punish yourself because you miss. That's just digs a hole. Yeah, sorry. No, go ahead. No, I think there's punishing yourself, but then there's also like making up for, you know, like I'm not like saying, oh, I feel so bad, but oh, I missed this workout. So maybe I can stack it into this workout and make it longer and you're not going to make yourself vulnerable. Right? It's just like sometimes you just miss. That's what I was saying about earlier before you had their inter-facility. It was like, well, we were going to do this huge mile repeat workout and instead you're going to go run and out 45 minutes to an hour as safely as it needs to be slow. Stay on your feet. Yeah. And we just missed it and we didn't make it up two days later and we didn't make it up the next Friday. We just ran it the next time it was on the schedule, which was like three or four weeks later. And I think that's a skill I wish sometimes I had been able to keep throughout my whole career because I lost that for about a decade. Now, how does that apply to spring, summer, fall? Same philosophy? Same thing. Yeah, like there are days where you're tired, you're dragging, you didn't recover the way you thought you were going to and you go out to run a workout. I mean, that's one thing I'm so grateful I ended with wetmore too. Like it's not happening today. Like I've run my first rep and it's not happening. I'm like, no, no, no, I'll warm into it the second one. Then he's like, we're done. And I'm like, well, we come back tomorrow. No, no, and it's okay. You need more time and there's nothing wrong with that. And just because we wrote up this weekly document doesn't mean you have failed now. So there's a good 10 years where I lost that. And I think that's why I spent a lot of time being injured. And the highs were high and the lows were low, right? Well, then you take all those little swish cheese days that could have been spread out and like, oh, that's just a swish cheese day versus like, oh no, this is where I'm missing all the cheese because I had to take three months off. Because now I have a stress fraction. Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of value in that. I think people can be gentler on themselves in the winter, but it really applies all the time. Yeah. Like sometimes you just need more recovery or sometimes it is just too hot and it's not safe. Or, you know, like here in Colorado, we have all these, this fire danger and we have really bad air quality and it's happened in the Midwest the last couple of years from Canadian wildfires. And people are like killing that, like, it's okay to not go out there and breathe that air today. Yeah, I think it's also these people that are probably most likely to do that are obviously incredibly motivated and you miss the day and you're like, I just feel so lazy. I'm so lazy. Like that's my conversation with myself. I'm like, I miss it. I'm like, just being lazy today. It's like, there might be something more there. Right. Maybe it was a little gift of a little extra recovery and maybe you're going to feel a little bit better on your next workout, which is going to give you a little bit more confidence. So it's okay if then the plan doesn't go exactly how you thought. Obviously you don't want to miss, if you have three days that matter a week and you miss them all week after week after week, don't come to me and tell me that I told you it was going to be okay, because that's not going to be okay. But I just, yeah, it's just like it's so rare that things go 100% according to plan. I mean, it just, it doesn't happen. And part of being an athlete and part of reaching your goals is not letting that ruin all the work you have done and being like, you know what, that I can't run today. The fire dangers, the smoke is too bad. It's not healthy for my lungs. And that sucks, but it doesn't undo this whole body of work that I did till today and all the work I'm going to do, you know, in the next few days, but I can get back out there. So yeah. Love that. Good place to pivot. We're going to see a lot of folks who trained through late fall and winter in Houston this weekend, some pretty fun races lined up. Tell me about what we're up to, Kara. We're going to be there and we're going to be having a live pod Friday night at seven o'clock. We still have tickets if you guys want to come join us. We're excited to kick off the year there. We have more live pods on our calendar than ever this year, but we're excited to start the season right in Houston. And you're going to be on the broadcast at the marathon later that weekend. So it's just a fun way to kick it off. And we'd love to have everybody, right? Yes. And you can get tickets from, I think we'll have a link in the show notes or both of our bios on Instagram. And it's going to be awesome. I think we're going to really dig into the fields and what we expect from the race and maybe some Houston history at that live show. So if you can't make it live, we'll have a pod drop either Friday or Saturday, most likely Saturday. And that'll give you a little preview guide to Houston half and Houston marathon. And also this weekend coming up, cross country. Yeah. Cross country in the United States. Yeah. Super exciting. It is interesting. I thought that there would be more, I don't know, maybe I'm just not, I've been in like holiday mode, but I haven't heard a ton of hype. Like I thought I would leading up to it. Real cross country is so fun. It's so special. It's the craziest race I've ever run. I mean, though, it like, I grew up hearing, Oh, if you go to roll across country, like they go out so hard. And I'm like, how hard can they go out? And then I experienced it. It's like insane. But it's so fun. And it's so cool and seeing all the countries and it's going to be here in the United States. And I'm kind of bummed that I won't be able to see it, but we will watch it somewhere. It will be on TV. We can put that in the show notes as well. Just a little info for folks. And then also this weekend is Disney, Disney half marathon marathon. And a lot of folks do the goofy challenge, which I agree is goofy. But you do you. So that'll be exciting too. Big weekend of racing coming up different levels, different levels, different distances, just yeah, all kinds of energy. But it's going to be great because we're going to get back on the road to covering results and recapping who's running well and all those great things. So yeah, I kind of wanted the racing season to be over. But now I'm like, like last month, I was like, I don't want to talk about racing anymore. But now I'm like, I'm ready to talk about racing. Did you see that Beatrice Chabette two time reigning champion won't be there because she is pregnant. It's exciting for her. Less exciting for the fins. But also a baby Beatrice Chabette is kind of cool. That'll be exciting in another 20 years as well. Yes. Yeah. She deserves to take a little stress off. I think the expectations for her have piled on quite a bit. And so I love I'm really happy for her. And I think we will see her back out there will not change who she is. There's plenty of female examples who came back after giving birth. I would say faith keep going on is the biggest one, but she seems okay. Yeah, she's just fine. She's just fine. Okay. Yeah. So I was actually really happy to see that. And yeah, and she even said something about like how hard she's worked the last couple years. It's like, yeah, give yourself a little breather. It's basically like the winter running of life. Yeah. Yeah. Just take that season. Don't look at the watch, Chabette. Just take your time. Yeah. So that'll be fun to recap those races next week. And just dig into it along with Houston. So yeah, let's do that then. Anything else today? What else are you thinking about? That's that's it. Right. Yeah. Let's do one to top five. Yeah, let's do top five. Okay. I didn't, I actually didn't think about this at all. I didn't either. Usually I have a couple things. Go ahead. This isn't really top five, but we mentioned it earlier. And we were like, how many, how much we can't like bag on Grand Slam anymore. But this is just an interesting note for my first one of the day, which is that it was announced that they're $31 million in debt. When their budget was 30 million, and they've already paid out, apparently supposedly about a third of the payment. So I can't wait to hear more about that. That's exciting. I mean, 31 million spent on track and field. That deserves to be in the top five for sure. Yes. Yeah. Let's hope the rest get, we're not talking about them anymore, but it is interesting. Those votes continue. So that's actually kind of mean. So I'm not going to do that. I'm actually going to say that today I booked my flights for the Boston New Balance Indoor Games. Oh, fine. And so Indoor Track is starting. And so we have Houston, we have a cross country, we have Disney, and Indoor Track is also starting. So it just feels like kind of exciting that like the year is kicking off and racing is coming back. All right. That's a good one. I'm going to follow that up with Milrose, who has some great races on the horizon, which I believe he will be calling as well. You can correct me if I'm wrong. So those will be exciting. And I think it was Dave and Monty who posted something earlier. There's a Cole Hocker Grant Fisher rematch. Rematch. Yeah. And he said more fireworks coming on that field. I don't know who he's talking about. He's not announced yet, but I got really excited for the announcement because if that's not enough fireworks, who else can you add? So it'll be fun. I know. That'll be a great meet. I'm excited about that. That's the week after the Boston meet. Sometimes I feel bad for the Boston meet because it's kind of like everyone does their, and you need to have that. You need to have a good first meet of the year where people are challenged and they blow the rust out and all that stuff. But sometimes I feel bad for them because it's like, okay, and how is Milrose the next week where everyone's like super hot and sharpened and ready to go? But they're both really good. Do you feel like Milrose is more distance oriented though? Yes. Do you think it's pretty, because I feel like New Balance always comes out pretty hot in the sprints. Maybe in a wrong. Yeah. I agree. New Balance is way more sprint oriented. And just working on the broadcast, Milrose is my best day of the year. I get to call the end with a mile. There's like, there'll be yard nougous going for number four or something and trying to get the world record back. There'll be a women's incredible mile. There'll be this battle between Cole Hawker and Grant Fisher in the middle, and we'll show it all. And so it's like my Super Bowl, Milrose, because we show all of the distance stuff and it's all electric. And where I do think New Balance is a little bit more sprint heavy, which is fair. I agree. Yeah, makes some sense. Yeah. And you'll get to do it in Boston. I know it's been done at that track the last couple years now. Yeah. But that's an exciting venue. It's a really nice track. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Right, you're up. Oh, shoot. Okay. I'm going to just go with Minnesota. I spent a couple days in Minneapolis and then six days in Duluth. And it doesn't matter if I'm in the middle of the state, that's significantly warmer or if I'm up north. I just love it. I love the people. I love the community. I love the weather. So Minnesota, I love you. I had a great. Even through all that stress, I had the best time. So it was good. All right. I'm going to go with travel. It's back on. We're going places. We're doing things. We're shaking it up. Yeah. No, I've enjoyed being at home. I've enjoyed staying put. A little bit of this is self cheerleading so that I can get back on that plane and be excited. But yeah, I think it's, we're going to good places. Yeah. Houston on deck, I think we'll be doing some stuff with Brooks in Seattle and Arizona and then there's Miami for me and you've got Boston and New York. And so we're back on the travel train and I'm sending good omens. It's going to be a good thing in this year. May there be no delays or turbulence or incidents. That'd be great. We'll see. Okay. I'm going to, for the last one, I'm actually going to shout out my mom. Ooh, I like this. Who I hadn't seen her since July. And I cannot believe how hard she's been working. You know, when I left in July, she couldn't put any weight on one of her feet. There was a lot of talk that I had, was going to have to be amputated. And she was such a good little patient. It was awful. She went like 10 weeks without being, I mean, just like confined to such a small space because she literally couldn't put any pressure on this foot. And that was at the end of maybe September that she got to start using that foot again. And even though she still has some paralysis or she does in her right leg, she's walking around without a walker, without a cane. She's driving at night. She uses her walker and stuff when she gets a little bit more tired. But I just, it's like, I cannot even believe it. I'm so proud of her. And the way I left her in this like super depressive state of like, you have to sit on this couch, which we thought was going to be two weeks. It ended up being 10 weeks. Yeah. To now, she's just being incredible. She's driving herself to PT. She's super serious about it. And so just for anyone who feels like down in the dumps, like my mom, they were talking about amputating her foot. And now she's driving and thriving. And like, you can get there too. It's been, it was really awesome to see her. I'm super proud of her. Love it. Yeah. Good job putting in the work. Good job. Staying patient. Yeah. Now you get to see the results. Love it. All right. Good job.