The Truth About The Current Protein Craze — Here's What You Need To Know

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What more could you want? Search Volvo EX90 to find out more. Electric range may vary based on driving behaviour and conditions. Hi, it's Kate Thonton from Wetland Question Time, and I'm thrilled to say we're being sponsored by Boots. Did you know that Boots pharmacists can diagnose, provide advice and treatment on everyday common health concerns? I'm talking sinusitis, rashes, sore throats, UTIs, even advice on sleep routine and minor aches and pains. Simply walk in and speak to a pharmacist. No appointment needed. For advice and treatment, you're never too far from a Boots pharmacist. Just walk in at your local Boots today. Hi everyone, I'm Raj Punjabi Johnson, head of identity content at HuffPost. And I'm Noah Michelson, head of HuffPost, personal. Welcome to Am I doing it wrong? The show that explores the all-too-human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right. Hi Raj. How are you? I'm good. I have a question for you. Okay. Do you think that you're doing protein wrong? That's a loaded one, as usual. I'm definitely doing it wrong and I'll tell you why. I've recently started to play around with weights more in the gym. So I know I need it and I know I want to feel strong. I don't exactly know what I should be eating. I only know a few staple things. I'm like doing the chicken and the yogurt and stuff, but I need more information. There's also this idea that you're not getting enough. I think we keep hearing that everywhere from the internet to, you know, it's just like, I believe it. You need more protein. That's right. What about you? I don't know if I believe it. I am newly-ish vegetarian and last couple of years. So I've been thinking about protein. Am I getting enough? How am I getting it? And then for this episode, I was like doing some research and I have to say I'm just more confused than I was before because there's so many different people who have so many different opinions about it. I'm not sure what to believe. So I want to know more. Luckily, we have a good egg here with us today. Elizabeth Dunn is a food writer and has a subset called Consumed, which is all about helping people navigate the complexities of being eater in the 21st century. Let's dig in. Liz, thank you so much for being here. We're so excited to have you. Thank you so much for having me. All right, let's start at the very beginning. What is protein exactly? I say it 20 times a day. And what does it do for our bodies? Okay, so protein is a macronutrient. Other macronutrients are fats and carbohydrates. So those are the three. All three are sources of energy for our bodies. But protein is different than fat and carbohydrates because in addition to being a source of energy, it also is a source of amino acids, which is what protein is made of. And amino acids go into a zillion functions in your body. So they help build and repair tissues like muscle and skin and hair and nails. They also help you create hormones. They are parts of enzymes. So they're like protein provides both energy and all the building blocks of your, many of the building blocks of your body. Right. And I kept hearing about complete protein versus incomplete protein. And that has something to do with amino acids, right? Yeah, okay. So our body, we're going to go, we're going to go range this way. Just get out of here. Just dive right in. So there are 20 amino acids that your body needs in order to do all of its things. 11 of them, we can actually make ourselves. So you don't have to eat them. But nine of them, we have to get from food. So when you hear about a complete protein, it means it's a protein that has all nine of those essential amino acids. Right. So some proteins, like I think every meat that I can think of is a complete protein. There are vegetable protein, and I think we're going to dive deep into the meat versus vegetable protein thing. Yeah. But there are complete proteins. There are incomplete proteins. Incomplete proteins don't necessarily have all nine of those amino acids, or sometimes they have all nine, but some of them just in like very small quantities. Right. Yeah. How much protein, you know, when we're just eating every day, or drinking, because Lord knows it's in everything, how much should we be consuming? And I hear that there's like a weight ratio. So I don't think about, you know, how much away? This is what everybody needs to know or wants to know. So, okay, there is a federal guideline for how much protein we need, and that is relative to your body weight. Okay. So the federal recommended daily allowance is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight. Again, we're going right into the math in the science. So for me, that is like, I think it's like 33 grams of protein a day if I'm following that formula. Which is not that much. Yes. It's really not that much. Do we trust this guideline? The short answer is yes. Okay. I think there is, are some rumors out there that the guideline is just like, how much protein you need to avoid dying and your body breaking the out of the bottle? Which is not true. It's like, it's how much protein, the average adult person who is like moderately active needs to just maintain their health. Okay. Okay. So many nutritionists still buy into that formula. Which like you said, it's not really that much. I mean, I'm a small person, so other people will need more, but 33 grams of protein. That's like a cup of Greek yogurt, and that's assuming you're getting no protein than anything else. That's like very, very achievable. Now, there's sort of an increasing movement to think about having a little bit more than that minimum. And there are certain groups that definitely do benefit from more than that, like that recommended daily allowance. So some of those groups are for one kids. Kids need like about one gram per kilogram, so they need a little bit more young adults so that like adolescent to early 20s, your body is still growing and changing, you're still, you know, building muscle, you're still, you're like more active. And so that group also will maybe need a little bit more. And then also older people, like so 65 plus are gonna need more. Or in the other category that I didn't mention is let's say you're a middle aged person, but you're super active, like you are an endurance athlete, you lift a lot of weights, you're also gonna need and want a lot more protein. But I would say if the point eight just seems like it's way too little, you are not comfortable with that amount. The more sort of, I guess like moderate, another way to think about it, if you're more active or in those other categories, is one to one and a half. We'll be like sort of on the safe side of how much protein you need. There are definitely people on the internet who are recommending way more than that. I think you guys are probably familiar. Familiar with the protein trend. It's wild. And I wanna get into all of that. But yeah, from what I've seen, most of us are not endurance athletes. We don't have that need. I mean, Roger, you obviously are, but yeah, the craziness. And this is gonna be a big theme in our conversation today is when you really, like do some soul searching, are you a person who's like slamming the weights and running 20 miles a day, or are you a person who's walking your dog and doing some Pilates and like being really honest with yourself about that? Because that is gonna really influence your actual protein. I just have to address the phenomenon that I am experiencing. Like it's emotional support protein. I'm trying to be a more active person. I really am, and you know, I just turned 41. I'm really excited about like I wanna be a hot girl with muscles, and I have goals, right? So I'm not endurance athlete. I'm working out five, six days a week. I am lifting weights. Oh, that's a lot. I do. I do. I do. I do. Okay, thank you so much. They're very lightweight. That's okay. I'm proud of you. I think that's a lot. I really, I do feel like I have emotional support protein. I feel really good when I eat yogurt. Yeah. And I do, I don't add, we'll get into the protein powder and stuff, but I try not to add. I'm trying to get it from like turkey chicken. Yeah. You know, lentils, which have carbs too. But I do think that's a thing that's happening. Like a lot of us are feeling kind, they like they want to have more protein, not really sure why. But what I was reading, because for this episode, I know nothing about protein really. So I did some research, and they were just saying most of us are getting a lot of protein just in our regular diet. Right. And there isn't the need to really like supplement it. Unless you do have one of these crazy needs for, or you're pregnant, or you know, Yeah. Like for the most part, like you said, if you're having a cup of Greek yogurt for breakfast, that's a lot of protein right there. Yeah. So part of the problem is we talk about, we're talking about protein. Proteins and macronutrient, not a food, but we're talking about it like it's gone. Right. And we often talk about like proteins on your plate, right? In a way that we maybe don't talk about fats in the same way. We're talking, so people kind of mentally think, okay, well, my sources of protein are going to be like steak and chicken, maybe tofu, and there's actually protein in almost everything you eat. Like there's, there's protein in strawberries. I mean, not very much, but if you're only thinking about the things you eat that are really dense sources of protein, then you're maybe going to feel like, oh, well, I don't eat, like I don't eat that much meat, or I don't eat that many eggs. But you're actually getting like whole grains, are yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Huge source of protein, and not just quinoa, not just talking macéma, oats have a lot of protein in them. Yeah. Things like seeds, like hemp seeds, and chia seeds. I'm going to have a lot of proteins. Yeah, all those things. So you really, it adds up a lot faster than you think. And there isn't really like an epidemic of protein deficiency happening. Right. There are a lot of people who are like protein deficient. When it comes to the difference between animal protein and non-animal protein, is there a general idea that like one is better than the other? I guess because we talked about how animal proteins, usually a complete protein. Yeah. But for the most part, if you're eating enough non-animal proteins, you're going to get all the amino acids anyways, right? The consensus is that meat is generally considered to be a superior source of protein, because the protein is more what they call bioavailable, which means that your body is going to absorb it really efficiently. Intrassally. So it is true that meats generally have like, quote unquote, higher quality protein. Not only are they complete, but they're more bioavailable. Soy is also almost as bioavailable as meat. So soy is sort of the top dog when it comes to plant proteins. But there is definitely a gradation in terms of how digestible and available that protein is to your body based on where it comes from. Right. Yeah, I'm veggie. So I get a lot of my protein from soy, beans, nuts, and I still eat dairy. So I get a lot of it there too. Yeah, if you eat dairy, you eat eggs. I do. Yeah. But there's a lot of, I mean, eggs are just a total, I mean, nutritional powerhouse. So if you can eat eggs, if you can eat dairy, you can get a lot of protein there. But as long as you're making a concertive effort as a vegetarian to eat a lot of different plants, like you're going to get as much protein as you need for sure. I saw that a cup of spinach, I think, has, I wrote this down, five grams of protein in it. A cup of raw peas has eight grams of protein. Rockly is that there? Rockly, yeah. That's one of the highest ones. Wild rice, I hate wild rice, but it's got six grams of protein in a cup. I have a really close friend who experienced a stroke when she was 23 and she was vegetarian. And she straight up asked her doctor, like as I'm building my muscle mass back and you know, relearning a lot of things in my body, do I need to eat meat? And she started and she hated it. And her doctor ultimately said, this is the exact same thing you did that. Like, yes, some animal protein is sometimes more by available, but you don't need to. Like, yeah, if you eat balance, you don't, and she ultimately is still vegetarian and she did what she needed to do. Right. But you could do it. Yeah. Hey, it's Anna and Mandy from our podcast, Sisters in the City, and we're currently sponsored by the department for work and pensions. Life's busy and admin gets forgotten, but if you're claiming benefits, listen up. If something changes, you need to tell DWP, otherwise you could face a penalty. That could be a partner moving in, even if they keep their own place. Or if your car doubles up as a taxi and a family car, you must only report work related costs. Or forgot and savings like premium bonds. To find out if you need to report a change, search tell DWP. Hi, it's Kate Thonton from White Wine Question Time, and I'm thrilled to say we're being sponsored by Boots. Did you know that Boots pharmacists can diagnose, provide advice and treatment on everyday common health concerns. I'm talking sinusitis, rashes, sore throats, uti-is, even advice on sleep routine and minor aches and pains. Simply walk in and speak to a pharmacist, no appointment needed. For advice and treatment, you're never too far from a Boots pharmacist. Just walk in at your local Boots today. At Great Tree, you'll find fantastic deals, like our best selling Supreme almonds, now for just 899 a kilogram, or three for 25 pounds. Or three for two on our fantastic range of exotic herbs and spices. Plus, use code Spring 20, for a massive 20% offer 40 pound or more spend on selected products when you order online. Or shop at one of over 180 of our stores nationwide. If you're looking for big bags and big value, Great Tree is the place to go. Great Tree, your health, our products. There definitely is, I think, the kind of perception online that if you're going to live a high protein life, that involves a lot of meat. What you don't hear talked about a lot in those contexts is the downsides to eating a lot of meat. Totally. So the data is very, very clear. I mean, like decades of large scale reputable studies that show that the higher in meat your diet is, the higher your chances are of getting cancer, of getting diabetes, of all cause mortality, meaning just basically dying younger. So there really are, there really are like pretty big health consequences to eating a very meat heavy diet, especially a very red meat heavy or processed meat heavy diet. So you have to sort of think for yourself, is that trade off between the quality of the protein, the bioavailability of the protein, gonna be enough to make up for the potential health consequences of really eating too much meat. That's such a good point. That thing about processed meat, right? Like most of the meat that is available to us for what we can afford is not being like, you know, it's not from our backyard. Yeah, there's stuff in it. The whole, one of the fastest growing snack categories right now is meat sticks. Oh my God, I know. Chopsticks. And obviously the protein trend is driving that. They also are very delicious. What really surprises me, especially because we're in this like very health and nutritious conscious moment right now, is that people aren't aware of the fact that processed meats are class one, carcinogens, group one carcinogens. So that's a world health organization classification. And it means that we know that they cause cancer in humans. And so it's like, this is really something that I think more people should think about. You know what? I think about that stuff because a lot of my friends will have like, and if it's turkey, it appears to be really healthy, but it's also a salt bomb. But genetically like, what's out the Asians? I am, it's like dodgeball with all the conditions for me. I'm like, oh my God, diabetes. Hi, customer. Like, it's all in my family. So I try to be more aware of these things. I want the protein, but I'm like, I am now more careful about the beef and pork, like moderation, moderation. But this is something we talk about in the show all the time, no matter what the topic is, is like, you have to live holistically. Like, you can't do any one thing crazily because everything else gets out of wax. So even here, if you have too much protein from red meat or whatever, yeah, you have to worry about fat, you have to worry about all these other things. And you also have to worry about what you're not getting in your diet. Like, what are you eating? Because we're all, there's a maximum number of calories that we're going to consume in a day. And those calories are going to come from somewhere. And so if they're coming from protein, from protein powders or any number of protein things that are maybe not the healthiest, the question is, what do you not have in your diet that would be a lot healthier? What is it replacing? Yeah. Let's get into the protein powders. So are you telling me that it's better to get protein from food, like, you know, more whole foods than adding, like, say, away protein powder to your shake? I am telling you that. So I want to come back to this idea of, like, are you a weightlifter or are you a regular person? So a lot of the protein energy on the internet, I think, from looking at it kind of studying the origins, originated with the fitness and, like, body building, and to some degree, the longevity world, so the, like, Andrew Huberman, Peter Atias. Right. Right. And so let's take Peter Atias specifically, like, he's one of these people that really promotes a very high amount of protein in your diet. Sure. What I think, crucially, a lot of people miss about that is that another part of his kind of theory of, of ideal diets and longevity revolves around how active you are. So he thinks people should be doing 150 minutes of cardio, a day in zone two, and you're doing zone five cardio, and you're doing leg days and arm days. Like, you are going to need a lot of protein to support all of that. Yeah. Right. But if you're not doing that, the extra protein does nothing for you. Right. A metaphor that I heard and really stuck with me, I wish that I remember where I heard this, was that eating protein, if you're not doing a lot of exercise, is like delivering bricks to a closed, built in site. Like, the protein, you can't store protein, you can't, the protein is not getting used by your body. So to your point about, feel like emotional support protein, I think there's this sense of, like, well, maybe if I just get the protein, I'm like three quarters of the way there. But if you're not doing all the exercise to use that protein, it's kind of for not. It's such a common sense. Yeah. I just wish, you know, it is common sense. I will, like, what are we so easy that we could just, like, eat a bunch of protein powder and we'd all look like supermodels. And it'd be great. But so to back to your point about protein powders, if you are, you know, you're like a member of Arnold Schwarzenegger's pump club, and you're like doing it, you're, you're really working out of time. Goals. You pro, like that way protein is a pretty good idea, because you probably do need to figure out how to get more protein in fewer calories. But if you're just a regular person who's trying to live a long and healthy life, you're going to be better off getting that protein from Whole Foods. For the reason I mentioned earlier, which is that Whole Foods provides you with so much more than just like the isolated protein. It's the whole package. It's like the fiber. And by the way, this whole idea that protein keeps you full for longer, which is not totally wrong, it's, it works a lot better if you're eating it in the context of, like, a food that has actual bulk, right? Yes. And it actually has fiber in it, maybe, and it's more filling generally. So, so just adding way protein to things is not really going to be a, a great solution for most people. That makes perfect sense. I mean, I have had, you know, from my various juice places, like a smoothie and add protein. I'm definitely hungry again in the hour. Like, that's not a thing. It's different if you're eating like a sandwich with grilled chicken and veggies in it. Yeah. That's going to hold you. I was also reading somewhere too, and they were saying, like, just like you were saying, a lot of people think just adding protein is going to make your muscles bigger. And they were saying, if you have a choice between concentrating on working out or concentrating on getting more protein, concentrate on the working out, that is the thing that builds muscle is working out. That's the harder part. Oh, yeah. Well, that's the thing. It's like 100%, but it's so much easier to just buy a smoothie. Exactly. But that's probably not doing anything. No, it's that you've got to really, like, do the work. Have you heard anything about this idea that you should have protein right after you work out? I was reading some people were like, that's absolutely not true. Oh. And other people were like, no, it's definitely true. I do a car before I'm protein after. Yeah. So my understanding is that most athletes do not eat protein before because it's tough on your digestion. It's more likely to have like tummy troubles if you eat protein and then work out. And that most people do have protein immediately after because it helps with muscle synthesis. That's my understanding, but I'm very interested in this alternative take that you should not eat protein right after. So they didn't say that you shouldn't, but they were saying that you basically have 24 hours to rebuild that muscle after you've worked out. And so you're probably going to be getting protein at a meal anyways. Okay. But unless you're again a really high performing athlete, your muscles are going to get repaired by the protein. You're going to get anyways. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be in that 30 minutes right? Oh, yeah. Or an hour after you work out. I think that's totally, that sounds totally right to me. Yeah. The difference of, you know, are we optimizing to the nth degree? Maybe you're really pacing your protein in a very specific way. And that's because you're an Olympic weightlifter. And you're like, I really need to, like, there are guys out there who are, I'm just trying to get the edge, right? But if you're a normal person working out, it is true that you wall our bodies don't store protein for long periods of time. You basically, as long as you're getting the right amount in a 24 hour period, your bodies are very sophisticated in terms of like being able to space that out. Right. And make sure that everything is happening that needs to happen. So for your average person, it's just not something that should be taking up headspace. Right. Yeah. Again, I have to say that like for regular people like me, rushing home and having protein is a part of the process that makes me feel happy and excited to work out. I don't know what to say. I know what you feel like you're doing it. Yeah. You're really doing it. Yeah. I know. That's a lot of the psychology of this. It's important. Yeah. And I get that it's just psychology, but I think it's part of the reason why I enjoyed my routine. I'm like, I'm feeling good about myself. You know, it feels very different when I have my bacon and cheese. You know, I'm like in a routine of showing up for myself. Right. Yeah. But yeah. And I don't want to do down like I think that the psychology is important and getting some like momentum into your sense of wellness is important. And so I think if people are becoming very specific about their protein routine after working out and it actually makes them feel good about themselves and it gets them on to a really, into a really great routine in terms of taking care of themselves, like by all means do it. But if you're like, but if you're stressed, right, if you're if it's a source of stress where you're like, well, if I can't get the protein right after I work out, I might it's well not work out. I do not do not worry about that. Yeah. Right. But a lot of it, I think sometimes we do these things psychologically and that is great. But in terms of what it's actually doing medically, scientifically, economically, it might be a little different. So much of what goes on in my life is like in Rajee's head, like fantasy time. I support that. No, that is fine. I do want to clarify because you said way protein can be great for certain people. Do you have a preference as far as there's so many different kinds of vegetarian and not vegetarian protein. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you like? Right. So way, I think the general hierarchy is that way is kind of the top, the best quality protein. If you were somebody who eats animal products, because obviously way comes from dairy. Right. You have to be able to eat animal products. If you don't eat animal products, the next best is soy, which is like pretty close in quality to way. In terms of we talked about, it's a complete protein. It's very bioavailable. It's they can process it so it's very pure down when then some people are allergic to soy. Right. Or maybe you just don't like the taste for some reason. The next one would be pea protein. But I think that's like quite a jump down from way and soy to pea in terms of that question of bioavailability. So that's like that's kind of the general hierarchy. Yeah. I'm also going to do this, you know, the thing we do sometimes where like we are not doctors. Oh, yes. And if you're going to try something new, you might want to talk to your doctor. I know there is still this battle about soy and whether or not that's bad for some people, especially in terms of breast cancer. Everything I read said that that is actually an outdated idea. Yes. But you still want to be thoughtful. So if you're going to go on a journey with protein, especially supplements, you might want to talk to your doctor about. Yeah. And I on the question of soy and breast cancer specifically, that's an area that I've done. I am not a doctor either, but I've done enough research into that and I've been doing experts to feel confident saying there is a very good body of data that shows that eating soy is actually protective against that. That's what I've heard. And that's that's legit. Right. So that should not be a concern. The same thing with like men being concerned about eating soy is that bad for my manliness that fake news. That's not an issue. But like you said, different people have allergies that they might not realize. Everybody's body is different. And if we're talking about protein powders, which are supplements, that whole industry is really unregulated. So do you have to be really careful that you're getting products that are not adulterated. They're high quality, which is yet another reason to not be like, oh, I'm going to rely on soy powder. Like, you know, any kind of protein powder for all of my protein needs. Well, since we're like already flirting with like sort of the CD world of like wellness and everything. I know you know, yeah, you've done a lot of research on this. Everything is protein now. Like Starbucks has protein cold foam and like Chloe Kardashian selling protein popcorn. It feels pretty new actually. Is this new and why is this happening now? I would say this CPG explosion thing is new. The fact that we're seeing protein added to all kinds of products. That feels pretty new to me. However, protein really has been has had main character energy since like the 90s, since the Actions. And that was when the general public scientists and the general public started to realize that protein was valuable. For weight control as well as for building muscle. So it sort of protein everybody kind of knew from 19th century on that it was important for building strength. In the 90s, it started to be recognized that a high protein diet actually could really help people lose weight. And that's when outkins and South Beach really took off. And I would say that there was a pretty steady interest in protein from the 90s through the 2000s through the 2010s. With different just like different diet names, but protein was the constant. The rise of social media tic-tac Instagram with so many different health influencers who are looking for simple fixes to give people to draw followers. And Andrew Huberman and Peter Atia specifically as podcasters and as sort of wellness experts promoting protein. And then you also have the pandemic where people are sitting at home there on social media a lot. They're also really concerned about health and really concerned about longevity. So there was a really kind of captive audience for this new enthusiasm. This is going to be the one thing that's going to solve all of your problems and it's protein. And then add to that that protein is something that it is pretty easy to just kind of inject into a bunch of products. And that's I think what has caused this explosion. It's easy to market around. There's the ozampic effect which we could also talk about that people on GLP1 drugs are being told that they need more protein. So they're looking for protein. So there's a lot of like there's a lot of factors that have combined to I guess turn this trend that was floating along the whole time to get into overdrive. When is it going to be new key like it all I don't think it's going to be that's the problem. I'm going to try it out for everyone. There are rumblings on the street like these like crazy trends that like fiber is the next it girl. Like you know, I know I feel like I've read it in a few articles. What do you think about that is fiber that thing we're going to be obsessed with next? I think that fiber is actually a more legit thing to be obsessed with protein in the sense that when I speak to all of them, I speak to all my nutritionist pals that are sources for stories like fibers. I think that they have forever been banging on about that we don't get enough of. And so something like 95% of Americans are supposedly deficient in fiber. Have you seen people's poop? Yeah, it's not that one again that you know the meat the meat sticks are not helping right? I mean it's just not in the situation. Yes, it's not great. And the science on this is only really evolving in the sense that as scientists, nutrition scientists and all kinds of doctors study the microbiome, we're realizing that fiber is super important to the health of the microbiome, which then contributes to the health of the whole rest of our bodies. Mental health, obviously gut health, mental health, all kinds of sort of follow on consequences of having a healthy gut. And what nutrition scientists are discovering is that your gut in order to be healthy, these little microbes in your digestive tract that digest your food for you, they need not just a lot of fiber, but they actually need a diversity of sources of fiber. Of course. Yeah, right. So it's important to get a lot of fiber. It's also important to get fiber from lots of different types of plants. And that this is like really a huge driver of health that I think people feel like we're just beginning to really understand. So for that reason, I think that there is a legitimate reason why fiber should be the next big thing. I'm just questioning, are there enough difference? Because it's only going to be the next big thing if food companies can profit off it. Like that's a horror. Yeah, just the truth. That's capitalism. And so the question is, can you actually jam fiber into enough things that it will take off in that way? I also think fiber has this sort of like to it because people do think of pooping. Yeah. And so it's not like a fully predation doesn't want to make fiber popcorn. People don't think that's a big thing. Yeah, so it'd be rep�ed. My muscle and old people. Yeah, I know. I know. It just doesn't, I know. And there's there's the the pro prebiotic soda trend. So that's obviously like fiber related. So I don't know. It could be the next big thing. TBD. I think we're not done with protein. That's what I was going to say. It feels like protein is here to stay for a while. What have you learned about getting too much protein? Is that also a health risk? The short answer is for most people know. Okay. Unless you have a kidney problem or you're eating truly astronomical amounts of protein, it's unlikely that you're actually going to really hurt yourself with too much protein. Okay. But again, I want to come back to this thing of the biggest potential risk is if you are eating so much protein, you are probably not getting enough of the other things you need in your diet. That's the way in which you're most likely to hurt your own health is that you're not getting the fiber. You're not getting the really awesome phytonutrients from plants. Like you're just basically not getting enough plants in your diet. And if you're getting it from Starbucks protein cream and that came on top of a frappuccino, then you're also getting sugar and fat and all the other things. And the same with protein bars. That would be the same. I mean, is that protein bars are, well, a lot of them have sugar substitutes. They don't actually have sugar in them, but they're not really loaded with lots of other things that are great for your health. They're basically just protein delivery bombs. And like a candy bar basically. Yeah. Yeah. I used to be obsessed with protein bars when I was younger. They're so delicious, but they are. And the ones I was eating when I was younger did have sugar in them. Yeah. And it can have like 18 grams of sugar. Like power bars? Yeah. Did you eat power bars? I actually loved power bars. I did too. But those were not that high protein. No, they weren't. You know? Yeah. And also the weirdest texture ever. But it was like a terrible. Strangely satisfying. No, I loved it. Yeah. I loved the power bar. They're an acquired taste, but once you get into it, it's like a like a... Same with like a clif bar. Yeah. It was like eating a cookie almost. Yeah. Okay, Rx bars, the ones that are date-based. I get like most hands-down delicious. They are delicious. You don't like them. You have to really like date. I like luna bars. Oh, also delicious. Also delicious. But also not super. I mean, they were considered high protein at the time. Yeah. But now people are like 12 grams. It's nothing. Yeah. No, it's so true. There you go. 100 or 100 grams or nothing. Yeah. I've asked like a cultural question. I know that here in America, we're probably getting enough protein. But my parents are from India. They've read multiple pieces of research that are like people in South Asia are eating too many carbs and not enough protein. When I tell you, my parents will eat like a roti and a potato currant or something. And I'm like, what are you doing? And they're vegetarian too. So it's like, you know, they eat a lot of vegetables, but a lot of times they're plate has too many carbs on it. And it's totally cultural. It's like, and I eat like that when I'm in India a lot of times. And it's so delicious. It's a lot of bread, a lot of rice. Do we need to reflect on like what are cultural inclinations are? Because they show up in our conditions later, I think. What's the veggie sitch when you are with your parents? Like is there is an obviously if you're cooked veggies? Right. Well, there's too many carbs. I think that the issue there is actually not the one you think it is. The issue is too many carbs, not too little protein. Right. So like the issue is you should be eating more. Even if they're cooked veggies, that's fine. Okay. Eating more of the veggies, smaller amount of the carbs. And then, um, I mean, it's a good question that you raise. Like, is this could this be a problem for a lot of populations around the world that are not Americans? Um, I guess I would say when you think about traditional diets around the world, when you really think about them, not that many are super meat heavy. Yeah. You always hear, you always hear about like the in you head and the, and the mess eye. And you're like, okay, fine, but those are extremely tiny populations. Right. Those are the, those prove the rule right because they're the outlier. And for the most part, you think about Western Europe, you think about Japan, people think, you know, Japan they eat, you know, lots of sushi. They actually eat a ton of rice and they eat a lot of pickled vegetables and they're not super protein heavy. Not that many traditional diets are super protein heavy. Okay. Um, so yeah, I think just like went into the veggies, I would not disagree that even though NAN is delicious and roti is delicious, like that probably is not ultimately the best thing. It's so hard to say no. I know. Yeah. I know. Okay. That's good to know. And of course, we never want to deviate from our cultural food. Yeah. But again, like balance. Yeah. What have you seen online in terms of like any disturbing protein trends? Have you seen anything that's like in the wellness sphere? I think Raju was saying, like you've seen people who just have like giant chunks of parmesan and the third just eating. God, I'm ticked off that like ticked off thing and I couldn't tell if it was serious or not. Where like influencers were like, I'm eating a brick of parmesan instead of a protein bar and it has more protein and I'm like, okay. Bunch. Sure. The crazy thing about ticked off though is whether or not that was meant to be serious for sure people will start doing it. That's true. Like that nuance is lost and people are not necessarily in on the joke. Yeah. So that is that scary. I've not heard that and that just makes me thirsty just. I know. I've heard that much. Yeah. So much salt or heat on me. I think the most disturbing trend is the carnivore diet for sure. And the reason I say that is because I think it's just, it's horrifying because any restrictive diet will make people lose weight. So I think that there is a real poll that like, oh my gosh, these people are eating only like steak and butter and they're losing weight and supposedly their autoimmune conditions are going away, which is by the way, not a backed by research thing. Right. Maybe. No, what I've researched is what you're saying. Yeah. Not a research backed phenomenon. But the reason that it's so horrible is that, you know, maybe there are these short-term results for some people. But in the long term, that is going to be so, so bad for your cardiac health. And like as a woman, the leading cause of death for women is heart attacks. It's cardiovascular events. And so if you're in your 20s and you're eating like this because you saw it online, like, you know, and you continue to follow that diet, that's going to have some like pretty, you're going to have some pretty bad visits with your doctor in your 40s, which is like your cholesterol is 870. Right. Yeah. You know, and, and so I think that's the big one. That's not that I'm sure there are ones that are much more kind of like viral and surprising. But the carnivore thing, I just think it's like, it's, it's an environmentally too. Totally. That's a great part. Not, not the direction we really want to be going. Yeah. I want to ask you about something that went that was, you know, all over the news a couple of weeks ago. There's an article about how there was lead found in protein powder supplements. And I was horrified when I read the headline, of course, and then I heard the article and like read more about it, which I highly recommend for anyone to read the articles. It's fine too, because I read it and I talked to my boyfriend, Benji, and we do protein powder with our smoothies. He's like, we only have like four servings a week and they said that's fine. I'm like, do we want any lead? And he was like, no, there's lead in everything. And what do we find that there's lead in everything? How many people sent you guys that article? Oh, so many. Yeah, me. I didn't know what there was specific to me. No. And I guess it tells you something about who you are and like that. So many people sent me that article. And we're like, ah, what do I do? And it's true. So if you actually read the fine print you look into it, this was a, this was a, some testing done by consumer reports. I love consumer reports, but they are extremely conservative. They're generally conservative. And a little hysterical sometimes. They can get, yeah. And then you know, they're, they're, they're quite, you know, particular. And so what they did with this testing of lead in protein powders was they used the, the limit set by California for what a safe amount of lead is to consume daily, which is an extremely conservative limit. Like there's the FDA limit, which is actually lower than the EU's limits. So the FDA limit is already kind of conservative. And then they use the California limit, which is a fraction of that. And so when they discovered that many of these protein powders had more than you should, you know, a single serving had more than you, like, then you should have in a day or more than you should have in a week. Sounds awful. It sounds like, oh my god, I need to go not just throw the protein powders out, but like light them on fire and just sage ceremony. Like I need to, like get this out of my life and talk to my priest and whatever. It's actually not that bad. The amount of lead found in these protein powders you should not, you should absolutely not freak out if you've been eating those protein powders. Having, and there, and as you said, there is lead in, there's lead in so many things. It's in our environment. It's in the soil. We should always be working harder as a food system to get the lead out, especially for children and for pregnant women. If you were pregnant, I would say do not have protein powder. Like, okay, it's really important to not consume lead. Back to our earlier discussion about the supplement industry, I think the broader lesson is that you really should think very hard about having a supplement-based diet because they are, these are concentrated substances. Right, like, way powder is concentrated from a huge quantity of milk. And so when you concentrate, the nutrients, you're also going to concentrate any kind of a toxin that might be in there. So just like a general good lesson that really a Whole Foods diet, people say it again and again, the Whole Foods diet is really going to be the healthiest, not just from what macronutrients are you having, but what toxins are you not having? Perspective. I mean, my whole thing is, if you have consumed a four-local in the past 20 years, you're going to have to show lead about the lead in your diet. Yeah, and also concentrating things that you can concentrate on. You know what I mean? Like you said, you can concentrate on getting more Whole Foods into your diet. Make yourself healthier. You can't really freak out about it. Yeah, a little bit of that or some microplastics because they're everywhere. Yeah, and something I think about a lot with this whole wellness trend that we're also caught up in is at some point it really becomes really antisocial and a little bit selfish if I'm being honest. Yeah, really. There's a limit to how much we should really be thinking about our nutritional choices versus our communities. Like other people, you know, I think right now as we're taping, many people are looking at losing their snap benefits around the country. If you have some extra headspace to devote to food, maybe just like knuckle down on every single food choice that you make and instead think about, you know, how can we help other people? How can I serve my community? These are kind of better ways to spend your mental energy. I love that you said that so much because as I like, you know, drag my parents about all the non, I'm kind of like, I love sharing non with my parents and I'm never going to stop breaking bread with them. Yeah. Bread or like whatever it is, like the communal aspect of eating and, you know, all of the rest of what you said, so important for our health. Yeah. And so much of the wellness fear is about making us feel bad, making us spend money. And it, like you said, it is really selfish in a lot of ways and it's not thinking about community. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's really, it's a marathon, not a sprint with all of your nutrition habits. And so just focusing on trying to make pretty good choices most of the time, as you said, like, is it more important that you're eating a protein forward meal or is it more important that you're like having some giggles with your parents and having, like participating in tradition way more important that you're having fun with your parents. You will probably make up for that protein, those vegetables and another meal. And you know, there's a lot of legitimate things to stress about right now in the world. This is just not, these are not things that people should be becoming really super wrapped up in. I totally agree with you. Yeah. Thank you, Liz. This is so good. Well, thank you so much for having me anytime. I feel better and I'm also craving some protein foam. We're going to get you something. No, not the foam. We're going to get you like some whole food thrive. All right. Hello, it's Jo and James from Jo and James Factor. And we're currently sponsored by Top Cashback, the UK's leading cashback site that adds joy whenever you spend money. Now, we both love spending money. But what's even better than spending money is getting cashback on the money you've spent. We've been finding it's great for everyday shopping as you can get money back on all the things you need and want. And by using Top Cashback regularly, it really builds up over time. We're talking things like your weekly food shop, grooming products and even pet food. And then by saving money on the essentials, you can put that cash towards something a bit more fun. With over 6,000 brownies to shop at and more than 20 years of trusted experience, Top Cashback makes earning while you spend easy. And top cashback.co.uk today. Hey guys, it's Jamie Lang here and my podcast great company is currently sponsored by Nivia Soft, the iconic moisturizing cream for face, body and hands. Now, I love, don't know about you, but I love a multi-purpose product and Nivia Soft is just so dependable. It's lightweight, it's fast-resolving, so your skin feels instantly refreshed and soft. And most importantly, there's no greasy feeling or waiting around for it to dry. Nivia Soft is the UK's number one body cream for a reason. It's iconic, it's affordable and works for everyone. Discover Nivia Soft, you'll go to moisturizing essential available at Tesco. Hi, it's Guy and Gary here and our podcast, Rock on Turs, is currently being sponsored by SpecSavers. Make sure you look after your ears and your hearing and treat yourself to a hearing check. What's that got to do with SpecSavers? Did you know that they're hearing experts too, Gary? Well, maybe they should call themselves SpecS and Hearing Savers. Yeah, not very snappy, is it? But they've been hearing experts for over 20 years too, helping new and existing customers when they need it. SpecSavers, looking after your hearing too, and it's so easy to book, go online or install today. Okay, it's time for better and five. These are the top five things that we just learned in this episode. Number one, protein consumption is based on your weight and for most people, that's about half a gram per pound, but everyone's going to be different. All right, number two, we mostly associate protein with meat, but you can get it a lot from veggies and a vegetarian diet. I sure do. Number three, for most people, it's going to be better to get your protein from whole foods. But supplements can be useful for some folks. Okay, number four, I love this one. We all fixate on protein, but we really need to be thinking about the big picture, and particularly maybe the next hot girl, fiber. Fiber. Number five, your quest for protein shouldn't come at the expense of your health, or having a good time with the people you love. Community. Okay, so Noah, after all that, have you been doing protein wrong? I don't know that I've been doing it wrong. I feel like we're doing it wrong as a culture. Totally. That's why I love this episode, because Liz knew so much about what people are obsessed with. And a lot of it seems like not useful, actually. So I don't think I'm going to be getting the protein cream at Starbucks. I know I keep calling out Starbucks. I love Starbucks, but I keep, I really do have spam. Yeah, but I keep calling them out, because that's the dumbest one that I've seen so far. I think I'm just going to try and be mindful about where I'm getting it, make sure I'm getting enough. But I'm not into this obsession. I don't think it's serving us. What did you learn stuff? I did learn stuff. Okay. No, you know what, here's the thing. Mine's a little bit different than yours. I kind of, I'm seeing that my obsession with protein is it's good for me, because it kind of makes me more motivated to work out and things like that. And I'm not, it's not getting crazy. I see that it could get crazy. I like what you said though about the psychological part of it. We're like, if that's part of your routine and that actually gets you across the finish line, there, I don't think that's harmful. Yeah, it's the only thing that's making me feel motivated to work out really. So I'm going to keep it, but I've retained all the information. It's not going to get out of hand. I promise. Okay. I'm going to check in on you though, just to make sure. Thank you. Anyways, as long as there are things to get wrong, we're going to be right here to help you do them better. Love you guys. Am I doing it wrong? It's a co-production between half-post and A-CAST. Our producers are Eve Bishop, Carmen Borca, Cario, and Malia Agadello. Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter. Special thanks to half-posts head of audience Abby Williams. Head of video Will Tuk. As well as Kate Palmer, Marta Rodriguez, and Terry DeAngelo. And where are your hosts, Raj and Jaby Johnson? And Noah Michelson. Hey, it's Anna and Mandy from our podcast Sisters in the City, and we're currently sponsored by the Department for Work and Pensions. Life's busy and admin gets forgotten, but if you're claiming benefits, listen up. 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You'll go to Moisturizing Essential, available at Tesco. Hello, it's Matt Kelly from The Two Matt's podcast, which is brought to you today by SpekSavers. Now, most of us think of SpekSavers for eye care, but they've also been helping people hear better for more than 20 years. And changes in hearing can creep up on you. The TV gets a bit louder, conversations in busy places get harder to follow. And you might not realise what you're missing. SpekSavers offers free hearing checks with straightforward advice from hearing experts and modern discreet hearing devices if you need them. So, if you or someone close to you might be struggling with more than the punchlines of this podcast, just get it sorted. Book yourself a free hearing check at SpekSavers today, either online or at your local SpekSavers branch. What's happening, everyone? It's Adam Row here from the HavaWed podcast, and I'm here to tell you about Ladbooks from Ladbrooks. 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