How To Move on From People & Things That Aren't Working

Every day you are making your brain better or you are making it worse. Stay with us to learn how you can change your brain for the better every day. I've been waiting for this. Our best-selling L-theanine gummies are finally back. I take them whenever I need to feel calm, focused energy, whether I'm working, traveling, or just winding down at the end of the day. They taste amazing and they always sell out fast. If you've been waiting for them too, now's the time to stock up. Grab yours at brainmd.com and use the code podcast20 for 20% off. We're talking about the they, them, and other dragons, which is basically the influence of other people alive and dead on your brain and on your mind. your brain is always listening. And these dragons are the most emotionally charged of all the dragons, which is why they can make you more upset than any of the other ones, especially when the relationship goes sour. Well, they can also hold you back or they can motivate you to behave a certain way. Your brain is always listening to the criticisms and encouragements of past sweethearts, the words and deeds of your current spouse. And if you're not in a relationship, what you imagine that other person is likely to say or act toward you, your brain is always listening I mean you're wired for love because that's how the species continues so I would love to know one of your um tell me one of negative things from the past that someone has told you that stuck for a long time one of your past relationships that that sort of you know affected you in a negative way or motivated you in a negative positive I remember my first um wife if she was upset at 11 o'clock at night she'd want to talk about it till three in the morning and when i'm like i have to work tomorrow you don't care about me and so it was clearly a manipulation to control me and um but it happened way more than once and so am am i not a caring person or what. And if you don't draw boundaries, it can really wear you out. Being in a difficult relationship is chronically stressful. And if you don't learn to either, okay, let's get this help or move on, it can really damage you both physically, psychologically, socially, spiritually. Absolutely. So I have one that also was a manipulative thing. It was a very unhealthy relationship, which says more about me at the time and how I picked than it. I actually write about it in my book because it's really important to take stock and take responsibility. But I was dating someone very unhealthy, very emotionally abusive and said, um, when I was going back to school and I had a lot of dreams and I knew I was really smart, was trying to keep me from doing that and said, the only way you're getting through school is on your back. And that was so painful, but it motivated me. It motivated me to do really well in school to prove this person wrong. And, but, but the problem was I then saw myself as stupid if I got anything less than an A in everything. So you have to be really careful with those. But I also want to point out, um, the flip side of that, because now being with someone where the relationship is amazing, where it's really healthy, that also is always in my ear. So when, like when I'm stressed out about something, things are, you know, I think things are like going crazy and it's not going to be okay. I always have in my head, you're like, eh, it's fine. It's all going to be fine. It's all going to be okay. And you've got this. Like, it's just, that's always in my head. So even when I feel like the whole world is like, you know, crumbling around me, I always like in the back of my head, it's like, I like, what would you say? I know what you would say. And then somehow that settles me down. So you've got both, you know what I mean? You have to, you have to be able to, well, I'm just, you know, I feel like we are so blessed because of how good we get along almost all the time. And I know half the people who get married get divorced and the other half who stay together are unhappy because relationships are hard, that they take a lot of work and some of it's luck. um some of it is there's a good fit and some of it it's not a good fit but if for religious reasons i think that's why i stayed for 20 years or the kids it's another reason why i stayed um that you feel trapped that it's chronically stressful, chronically painful. And if you say at some point, this doesn't fit, um, you are not a bad person. It, you know, I just, sometimes it doesn't fit and the chronic stress hurts people more um than the pain of separation but when people separate that's when they get crazy right right i mean that's when you read about murder suicide and um all of that because attachment is a basic human need and when the attachment phrase or it breaks often people feel very unbalanced sometimes for years. Yeah. So it seems to me like a really good exercise would be to pay attention and write down things that when you, when you find those thoughts coming up, it's like, where's that coming from? Is that coming from, you know, one of those voices from the past, one of those dragons from the past, from a relationship, like, like the one I had. It's really important, but also pay attention when you have the good ones. Like you constantly tell me I'm one of the most competent people you know, one of the smartest people you know. So don't just write down the bad ones, write down the good ones so you can pay attention, right? Well, in criticizing your spouse, you're really criticizing yourself because you picked him or her. And I think what works for us is we don't do that. and we notice what we like. And we are not afraid to apologize. More than what we don't like. And we're not afraid to say, I don't like when you do that. Right. You have to be able to say that safely. So there's clarity, assertiveness. In my books, I write about relating 100% responsible for how we turn out, at least for my actions. it's easy to blame someone else it's much harder to go what can i do to make this better that we're good with empathy and seeing things from each other's point of view we've been good at listening um assertiveness we're both assertive people we have time i think in the pandemic we had more time um we don believe every stupid thing we think that the eye we inquire we notice what we like and we good with grace and forgiveness And you know there only a fight if you pick up the sword So it's like people get defensive and then that's where the fight starts. So the first act of war is defense, right? So if you say, this hurts my feelings, I don't like it when you do that, there's only a fight if I'm like, you know, if I get defensive and I try to defend it. You do too. Or it's like... That is a common response. Yeah, but honestly, if you can just step back for a second and go, and we all do it sometimes, but if you can step back for a second and go, oh, I'm sorry, and you start off like that, like, what about that bothers you? It's a whole different conversation. Yeah, and I'm actually pretty conscious of if I don't like something, I'll notice when you do the opposite because that way um you just know what i like and and you do you're really good at noticing it um so what can you do better to tame the former current and prospective lover dragons such an interesting now they get triggered when you feel unloved um that's when they're breathing fire on you what can you leave behind you don't need the former the people you end up breaking up with you don't need their voice in your head because it really can mess a lot of people up so what did you learn about relationships i'd love if you post relating responsibility empathy listening assertiveness time eyes inquire into the negative thoughts you have and has noticed what you like more than what you don't g is grace and forgiveness john gottman has great books on relationships he talks about the four horsemen of the apocalypse, that if you are defensive, just like you said, if you're critical, if you stonewall, if you're condescending, those things predict the end of your relationship. And so as opposed to defensiveness be open condescending is just cruel kindness is important criticism not helpful notice what you like more than what you don't and stonewalling is you just stop communicating that's death for a relationship that's me i don't know internet troll dragons let's talk about um how they affect people um you know what you can do about them and how these voices actually you know what toll they take well it's very interesting um that if you write books like you and i a book that has only five star reviews people actually don't believe because they know the world is filled with people out of different opinion. But sometimes an internet troll is someone who is just so hurtful. The vitriol. You can just. And so hateful that you know it's not about you, that it's about them and that they have than six yeah they'll say things that really don't make sense in context to what you're saying it's just viciousness coming out and you said something earlier is um what you think of me is none of my business and it's not your job to love me it's mine and you know i know byron katie teaches this terry cole teaches this who um we're going to interview one of our podcasts coming up um um she's writing a book on boundaries that hurt people hurt people and so you often wonder with the real haters where does that come from um and i've experienced it actually fairly intensely but if you're going to go against the grain um you just have to expect you're going to upset some people. And if you're not upsetting people, then you're probably not doing anything that's new and useful. But everybody's got their own life experience, their own hurts, their own, you know, whatever's going on, their own differences in religion or politics or whatever. And so there's no possible way everything you say is going to agree with them. You know how people deliver it. Who knows why they're so angry and vicious. But but the fact that I stand by what I said, it really has less to do with you than it does to do with them. And their own background, their own experiences. Well, being one of seven, if you're have five sisters, somebody was mad at you. And that could be their cycle. And I'm going to get hate mail from women when I say that. but you know our moods fluctuate and that's not just women men's moods fluctuate men get angry too it's like part of it could be you know cyclical it could be just you had a fight with your wife and you need someone to take it out on i mean there's so many things i wonder if there's ever been a study on that on negativity associated with time of cycle i don't know but i mean we all know like i even like my daughter and i joke about it it's like we know like we'll come back later and say okay like is it like is it that time of the month is it okay but we know better than to ever say it at that time of the month don't ever say it then well people who don't believe in pms don't have five sisters that's just and three daughters and 14 nieces um you know it's like i'd say exactly the same thing you know day four of her cycle and she just thinks it's funny and And when I say it at day 26, it's like you bastard. But do yourself a favor and never say, it'll be better in a couple of days. Just don't ever say that. Well, thank God you, it was never a huge problem with you. I write about it and change your brain, change your life. No, no, no, let's take that back. I knew the difference was I was aware that it was me. Well, me. So I wanted to go away. Like, it's like, let me just be alone for the next. But I have treated people who've attacked their husbands. Oh, no, no. I just I withdrew. Or got suicidal. I mean, it really changes. But the whole point in the Internet troll thing is. You don't know. It may not be about you. It's not. I think it's always good when you get feedback to assess it because it may be helpful. It's like, oh, could I do that better? When we started the podcast together, we'd have some people, you know, criticize our interaction. And I think for us, we thought about it and we go, well, can we do this better? And I believe we interrupt each other less than we did before. Right. And this is, we are a married couple and it's, we are, this isn't a produce, it's just our natural interaction. But yes, we always want to listen. But at the same time, ask yourself, like, am I putting something out there with the intention of triggering people? Or is it something that is, people are reacting to and there's really not a good reason? Because some people put stuff out there with the intention of triggering people You see it all the time we all do well because that can drive it flip bait right that people pay attention to negativity more so um you know you always think of consider the source the problem on the internet is you don't know the source you often don't know what's real what's not real and you know for example with my ted talks they have almost 18 million views and they're 97 positive so i feel really good about that but a lot of people haven't trained their mind and they look for the ones that are not positive and they let that hurt them right so you want to be careful about that so i think a couple things you can do is ground yourself ask yourself if what they're saying is true or not. If it's not true, you know, then just tell yourself it's more about them than it is about me. And for me, and this is up to you, you know, some people call it censoring. I don't censor anything that's just someone's opinion about something if it's not hurtful. If it, as long as it's something that is just opinion or it's helpful to the rest of my community, it can stay there. I don't care if they're agreeing with me, disagreeing with me, it doesn't matter. If it's just pure vitriol and hate, it goes. It's my page. If you If you don't like it, you can go find another page to follow. If it's hateful and mean and just not helping the community at all, it needs to be off my page. And I block them. So boundaries is actually very important. I know you've thought about that a lot. So have you been the victim of internet trolls? Don't take it personally. everybody is the victim of that in the digital age we know about um stay true to what you believe your message um you'll feel so much better about it stay with us there are days when i need to be at my best whether it's back-to-back clinic sessions long writing days or just keeping up with light. That's when I take peak energy from BrainMD. It gives me clean, steady energy without jitters or crashes. And I'm not the only one who loves it. It just won a 2025 Nexty Award, beating over 500 other supplements. If you want real energy that lasts, check it out at brainmd.com and use the code podcast 20 for 20 off welcome back uh we've been talking about the they them and other dragons and uh we only have one more to go actually we have two more to go um Today we're going to talk about society, dragons. Oh boy. This is what just made you crazy during the pandemic. And it's the they, dragons. And in the book, it's, you know, there's like a dozen baseless dragons. It's what we think they think about us. Or they think we should think about. when there really is no they. This is the they that my mother always calls me. Oh, they said this is what we have to do. They said this is the world is ending. They said, and I just, this is why I don't watch the news. It's they, it's they are the reasons. There's a herd mentality. And that's why if you go to most news sites, USA Today or the New York Times or CNN or Fox, they're basically covering the same things, which is they are deciding what's important. Right. And maybe this is going to sound really cynical and people are going to get mad, but I like the one thing that you mentioned a long time ago. And I actually have raised my daughter and now our nieces with this idea that the masses are kind of the asses. You have to think for yourself. Hannah, did you say that? I did. Do you know where I first heard that? Where? In my philosophy class at Vanguard. Well, I like it. Professor Murray Dempster, he's my favorite professor, loved him. And he said, if you just pay attention to groupthink. Groupthink. I don't like it. The masses are the asses. Right. Because what happens is- And this was at a Christian school. So those of you that are going, oh, they said a bad word. No, people jump on the bandwagon with one thought. And I saw this so much during all the crazy political societal stuff. And I didn't see it with one side. Let's be clear. So you saw one side go to one extreme. And then I saw the other side go to the other extreme. And I was just like, what is happening right now? It's so toxic when people can't think for themselves. You really need to step back and think for yourself. Do your own research. And I've always told the kids this. Whenever they come to me and they're like, oh my gosh, did you see what's going on right now? And I'm like, how do you know that's true? Like, chances are it's not true. Bring me the research. Tell me why you think what you're thinking. I want to know the why behind it. Who is actually saying it? What's your source? I think now more than ever, there is so much misinformation about the pandemic and about the societal unrest. And people have more tools than ever to be able make it look real so when someone says to you they what should your response be who is they who are they who are they that's what i say to my mom who who are they who are these people you're talking about and how does it fit with who you are right and what your values right are it's so important to define them. Right, that's the next thing I'll often say to my mom is why does this matter? How is this going to change my day or your day? How is this going to change the world? Like what, why does this matter right now? And as we all often say, where you bring your attention determines how you feel. And you know, I just hated the political divide and I've never seen it impact my patience as much during this last election on both sides that if you didn't believe as the other person then you're not trustworthy then they would automatically diminish you and oh no they would they were just like i can't be your friend anymore okay okay. Just, you know, it's like, yes, there'll be a special place in hell for you. Yes. It's like, how many times I've heard that from, from people on both sides. It's like, there'll be a special place in hell for if you don't blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, well. And we purposefully try to be a political because we want to help everybody. No, that doesn't mean we don't have our own beliefs, but we really try to not get caught up in the extremes and all the vitriol and the, you know, just the intensity of the craziness that goes on with the fringe. Well, and they actually found fringe on the left and fringe on the right have the same brain. It's rigid and it's not flexible. And it's sadder, interestingly enough. I have a new study coming out. I haven't even told you about it on happiness. So we gave 344 people the Oxford happiness questionnaire and we have their scans. Interesting. And we've analyzed their scans. Don't you think though being in quarantine for the better part of a year made it worse? I think isolation for some people, not everybody, makes them dramatically worse. You don think it gave people too much time to think For some people So the introverts love the isolation because other people stress them out Right. I tend to be like that. Drains them. I loved being at home. Right. Me too. With you. Yeah. I mean, we had more time with the children. I mean, I get a little bored now and then want to get out. Right. I mean, I think for people whose businesses were damaged or whose jobs were damaged, they the isolation was terrible so I don't like being told I have to be home I just like being told any I don't like be honest I don't like the shutdown I don't like being told I feel but I like being home you don't like it when anybody tells you anything no I'm likely to not be very cooperative you have the no no no bad which we're going to talk about coming up so taming the they, them, and other dragons, the society dragon is a big deal. What do you believe? And when someone says they, the question is, who are they? And do you respect them? Do you look up to them? Do you want to be like them? And if you don't know the faceless dragons... And I would take it a step further and say, what is the source? Like, not just who are they, Where are they getting this information? And these are, they're super cute. They're the other people's dragons. They're contagious. Your brain is always listening to the voices of many other dragons, including bosses, co-workers, religious leaders, politicians, store clerks, news reporters, media personalities. these dragons can be critical, hurtful, attacking, competing, indifferent, where they can be encouraging, positive, comforting, and engaged. It's like all the other people in your life. And I remember when I was a grocery store clerk that I could make someone smile just by being friendly. Or I can make them really angry at me if I was withdrawn in myself and a little bit snarky. But other people have a dramatic impact on how you feel. I remember when I lived in Hawaii, and I loved Hawaii because I tend not to pay attention to too many people. Too many other people. I'm always in my head. You're always like that. No, you tend to see the positive in almost everything. But the person I was with at the time just had to leave because she felt the racism against Caucasians because Hawaii is an Asian culture. And if you're not Hawaiian or Asian, you sort of less than other people. Interesting. But you are a person who chooses, like I joke that you have Mickey and Minnie in your head doing the waltz. It's the happiest place on earth because literally something truly crazy can be going on around us. And you're like, oh, it's not that bad. Like, oh, it's going to be fine. Like you are one of those people. So it's pretty Pollyanna in there. So I'm going to actually give you guys a skill. This is the one to write down. I was talking about it in our huddle this morning. Many of you know Ariana Grande and her song, Thank You, Next. Well, if you think about that, I think how she was meaning it is a little different in the black widow sense. But the essence of mental health and I developed this and I'm not really sure where I developed it. But being a shrink for 40 years, you know, I try to pay attention to good mental habits is that that's actually a very important psychological principle. principle. And so for example, you had to file bankruptcy and it was very painful and very hard, but your tendency is not to look back with regret, but to go, what's next? Responsibility. It's how can I respond to this situation? And too many people get stuck in what other people think of them. But what's really helpful is when something's not working is to say, thank you, bless it, and then look forward to whatever's next. So when you have teenagers, you learn all these little things. And one of the most simple ones I learned, you know, teenagers have this way, they have this funny way of saying, bye-bye. When something, when they're like done with something, it's like, bye-bye. So, bye-bye. Well, and one of the things a lot of parents get very sad at is emptiness. Oh, don't even start. Did you, you just had to go there. Well, I think it's really important. One of my sister-in-laws, her children, grandchildren moved across the country. And it's so devastating. but it's because she looks back rather than forward. Yeah. The only thing keeping me from sort of losing my mind over that is I'm looking forward for my daughter. I'm like excited for her to start her life. Otherwise I would just be last year was really hard for me. Because she was, she was at that phase where she was pulling away from me. We were attached at the hip for so long. And I mean, we did everything together. Literally, she was in my lap like all the time, even as a teenager. And then bam, she just was like ready to fly. And I'm like, but I'm not ready for you to fly. So that year was really painful. So you weren't able to do thank you next? Not for about a year. It took me and I knew it wasn't her though. The good thing was I knew it's not easy. No. So I knew it wasn't her. So I had to do that work on myself. It was really painful. So I do that work on myself and remind myself this is her life. And so now the thing that she's getting ready to leave for college, what I remind myself is it's her time to fly. This is exciting. This is an exciting time for her. So whenever I start to get that little funk inside, it's like, this is an exciting time for her. I'm going to get lots of air miles. So I'll think about the positives. You're always going to stay connected to her. But if you stay too connected when she's trying to separate, you'll damage the relationship. And she'll be resentful, right. You'll damage yourself and you'll damage the relationship. So admitting when things are over. And I mean, I remember before I met you, I got my heart broken and I just couldn't move on, which was a horrible place to be. But one of my friends said I got my heart broken open. I mean, I think I did the most psychological work on myself through that pain. But shout out to Ariana Grande, because it's really a very important psychological principle. And it goes with the serenity prayer. It's just a cooler way of saying the serenity prayer. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference. Struggling with your mental health? At Amen Clinics, we use brain imaging and personalized care to help you heal at 11 locations. Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, D.C., Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, New York, Orange County, California, Seattle, and Scottsdale. Visit amonclinics.com. We'll see you next time. Take care.