Episode 563: Sadia Khan: The Modern Relationship Advice Your Therapist Got Wrong

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. You guys, we have a very special guest. I know I say this a lot, but I'm a big fan of hers. Her name is Sadia Khan. You probably have seen her all over social media because she is a viral psychotherapist who gives really, I think, great advice on relationships, men, women, and it's kind of sometimes somewhat polarizing, which is why so much of it goes viral, but almost always so spot on and accurate, which is why I think also people have taken to you the way they have. And she has a new book called Red Flags, and we're going to talk all about red flags. And we're going to talk about so many other things. So Sadia, all the way in from Dubai, thank you so much for being here. No, thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure. Oh, it's such a pleasure. I've been watching your stuff for years. Like I mean, probably what, three, four? How long have you been doing this stuff? Since 2023. So about three years now. Yeah, three years. Wow. It feels like it's been longer. It does feel like that, but I actually, the moment I came on social media, it kind of went viral that day. So there was no build up and so on and so forth. So it feels like people have known me forever, but they literally knew me from the day I started, and it just kind of went from there. It really was. It's so true. It's really weird. There was no build up. There was no slow trajectory. It was just kind of on and off. It's funny because you did explode right off the bat. I remember seeing a couple of your videos and they were so good in terms of the content, and you don't hear a lot of people talking about what you talk about because you're not trying to be counterintuitive, but you are counterintuitive. But it's actually so accurate, I think. And I think people were sharing it so, I guess so early. Right away, people were sharing it. So you went viral so quickly. Yeah, and it was, I was also lucky with the timing. As much as I would love to say I just went viral, it was very good timing because it was a time where Andretate was, you know, the red pill stuff was really heavy, and then there was the feminism that was really heavy. And there was a whole cohort of women like me who were like, I don't like the red pill stuff, but I'm also not this staunch feminist. And they just didn't have a voice. And I came in as kind of like the middle ground, and every bit, so many people will say, you just worship men and you're on men's side. But then there's men that say, you're always on the women's side. And I think when there's an equal backlash, then you're probably neutral. And I like to say that I'm always on children's side. I'm on the side of what will make a happy home and a good set of parents and co-parents. I'm always kind of, the Northern Star has always been like, what's best for children? If I teach men to hate women, it's going to be terrible for parenting. And if I teach women to hate men, that's going to be terrible for parenting. So it's always kind of finding the balance between the two to get to a healthier home. I mean, that's really well said. I find that so much of your content, well, you can talk about it now, is about number one masculinity, which I found to be really like on point. There's so many trends that you kind of were speaking on. Like the first trend I was on this masculinity, how men, for example, we're losing men or not as alpha or masculine as they used to be and how women need an alpha or masculine man. Yes. And so I saw that clip and I was like, share, share, share everybody. Can we talk about that? Like, how did you kind of come to this? Tell me a little bit about that and the evolution of how you kind of got your research and data and where you speak from. Thank you for that question. Great question. What happened is, and this is probably why it was so different is, and I talk about this in my book, I was following when I first became a therapist, this amazing resources. So they'll teach you about attachment styles. They teach you about Gottman theory. They'll teach you about love languages and you feel so intelligent when you learn all of this. So when I first started having clients, I was like, OK, as a man, you just need to show her her love language. If she likes gifts, give her a bunch of gifts. If she wants quality to time, just do that. And I was following all of the advice that had been written for years and thinking that's going to lead to results. It never, ever did because the fundamental ingredient before she can love you, she has to admire you to some extent. And women can't admire men that have no masculinity. So if he's super passive, super soft, or if he's on the other end and he's super lustful and he's always chasing women, no matter how many gifts you give or quality time, the underlying woman will never be able to submit, respect or admire you if you're not a truly masculine man. There's no point of a really submissive, loving man if then he's weak and he's not powerful. There's no point of a really affluent man if then he's lustful and chasing other women. So without the underlying pin of masculinity, women were just not responding to the advice I was giving men. They would go back to their wives and do everything I was telling them and it wasn't working. And then I realized it's because there's something broken in their masculinity. And until we fix that, none of this therapy advice will work. And sometimes the advice in therapy makes them even more less masculine. So it teaches them even more like to be feminine. So it tells them to be emotionally available, be vulnerable. Your feelings are valid. When really what women want is, yeah, OK, fine. Have your feelings for five minutes. But then what are you going to do about it? Yes, OK, you're really upset that your father upset you. No problem. Be upset for five minutes. But then tell me how you're going to find a solution to this problem. But this undertone of just constant complaining, constant vulnerability, constant emotional behavior from men that therapy is teaching them makes women feel a bit stressed because they don't have somebody to take the lead. So that's where I kind of realized that this advice is not going to work until he's masculine. And no matter what she says, no matter how much she says, I want a man to just let me be me, even like with the feminists and they'll say, I want a man, I don't want him to be insecure. If I'm posting nudes online, he should not care. If I'm going to the club all night, he should not care. But the guy that doesn't care, she doesn't feel protected by him and she doesn't respect him. So it's a downward spiral. So that's where I kind of realized that actually this advice is not working. I need to fix my my therapeutic practice. And I started doing different kind of techniques and it worked completely. I think that's so brilliant because you're right. Like so much of this is about like, well, what's your love language? And then if your love language is gifts and minds of affirmations and like then therefore we're going to have a great relationship. Doesn't work that way. Not at all. Especially in this day and age, because you can just get these girls that might be escorts and they'll say, my love language is gifts. And he starts giving gifts, gifts, gifts, but she's like not interested in it. Exactly. Just purely using it. So it's this kind of understanding that is not looking at the red flags. These these techniques won't work if your partner has these red flags. So I was trying to train men because they also train to just not have any expectations with women, just totally accept and don't look for red flag. Think women are these kind, wonderful people. But me as a woman, I've experienced that even myself, we have. We're not always kind. We can be very difficult. So if you're constantly pandering to us, you're not going to know how to navigate us. And that's what I was trying to teach my clients. And then I put it online and it kind of went viral from there. Right. So I guess the word I was looking for is like you had you took the veneer off and it was honest. And I think people are very offended by sometimes honesty. And therefore, like because of that, like that polarization, it caused like a lot of like, you know, chitter chatter. Yeah, it did. And I think this is where my cultural difference makes a big difference. Yes. I sometimes because I grew up as a Pakistani woman, my family is so normal to be like, Saudi, you look so fat, you look so terrible. What have you done to yourself? Like it's so normal for my mom to say you look terrible. And we would be like, really? And that would be it. There would be no trauma. There would be nothing to it. It would be that's it. They're just giving feedback. And when you when I had friends in England, they would be like, your mom just called you fat, you know, that's, you know, you can call the you can call the police on her. That's abuse. I said, abuse, you'll beat me up if I call the police. Yeah. I said, this way, I can't do that. And so we had such a different version of what abuse looked like. We just grew up thinking honesty is essential. Niceness and politeness is not essential. We found honesty is the pivotal thing in connections. So we maybe it's just a cultural thing, but generally, I think in a lot of poor countries and that kind of culture, they don't have these niceties. I think that's slightly when you're in survival mode, just straight to the point. True. That's how you build trust. So they always had this honesty as the main approach. Whereas my Western friends living in London, they felt like that's so offensive. And so I kind of grew up a bit autistic in the sense that I would just think this is honest. But what's the problem? I didn't know I was offending people. So even if I say something simple as attractive women, you know, they're a little bit more suspicious of men because they've always experienced something different to unattractive women. People will be like, there's no such thing as unattractive women. I'm like, there's plenty. I've been attractive so many times and say with men, there's no such thing. And I put this plenty and that's not a bad thing. It's just we're all going to be unattractive at some stage. It's also honesty. So I that's why I resonate. You resonate with me because like I kind of in the same I'm come from the same I guess for the same block as you, which is like honesty, I think honesty cuts through the bullshit. That's how you really make connection. That's how things have substance actually occurs. This like, you know, standing on ceremony and these niceties get you nowhere fast. Yeah. Or it gets you somewhere with the wrong people. That mean nothing. It's very like surface nonsense. Yeah. And so I that's why I appreciate that like truth. Like I always say to people, you know, if you're a five or six, why are you like you're looking like you're single because you want an 11 or 12, but you're a five or six. Like you're not realistic with your set, like who you are to get that number. And how did they take that? Usually they're offended, you know, but the people who like are similar to like how you and I would think we're like, yeah, exactly. Of course. You know, like that's how it is. Like that's just that's reality. And also I think I don't place so much emphasis on looks to the point. I know it looks like I do, but it doesn't kill me if someone finds me unattractive. That won't kill me. It's not the end of the world if someone and the other thing is I'm so aware that at some stage, everybody becomes unattractive. Myself, my parents, my family, we get all the way. This happens. Nobody's a sexy 60 year old. It's very rare. So it's happened. So I didn't know that I was so offensive until I went online and then everybody was so offended. But then I think it doesn't help being a woman when you say these things. I think like I see a lot of James Jackson who's brilliant. And I see a few others. And he's very straight to the point as well. He's very rooted in honesty. And again, I think it's because of the work he does. He works with real clients that need real honesty from him. And it somehow lands a bit easier when it's coming from a man than I think when it comes from a woman, which I understand. So I think that also didn't help it coming from a woman being this blunt person. It wasn't it wasn't matching up. So I think that's what it was matching up. I think because I just because I think polarization, whatever is is good. And I think that honesty is good. And I think, you know, water finds its level. So you're going to meet people or find people who gravitate to you, who also appreciate honesty, who also want that, you know, the sheets to be taken off. So like I'm a big believer that not everyone's for everybody. Yeah. You know, like people will find what they're what they gravitate to. So yeah, so you're not going to be appealing to the people who find that they want to live in Lullaland. Great, you know, but for people who like appreciate bold bluntness all day, you know. The only problem is the internet is more kind of pivoted towards those people who are easily offended. They've got louder voices, whereas people like me and you would see something we're offended by, maybe not and just scroll past it. But those people who are easily offended, they can't just scroll past it. That lives with them for days. So sometimes I'll see people making videos about me and they're like, sadly, I can't do this video and I know she's talking about me and I'm like, why would I be talking about what's it? But they centered my opinion so much that they think I center them. So they take it so personal. Whereas I'm so capable of not personalizing information, good or bad. But the problem is with non-truth seekers who are sensitive. They personalize something that could be said by a complete stranger. They personalize it really quickly. I know, that's a big, that's a problem. I mean, but that's what they should be working on, in my opinion. But you said something earlier that I think is very valuable for people to know and listen to is that when you are so set, when you're so focused solely on your physical appearance, that comes and goes. So that's like the first, that's the first issue, right? Like you have to build your, like I find sometimes the most sexy, beautiful people are not necessarily the most physically beautiful, but it's their attitude, it's their confidence, is the way that carry themselves and hold themselves. That makes all the difference. You can have the most beautiful 10 out of 10 woman in front of me or man or whatever. But if they are insecure and have a low self-esteem and uncomfortable in their own skin, that 10 becomes a two really quickly. And that's where hypersensitivity is super unattractive. Both in men and women. Hypersensitivity is a real killer in relationships because people who are hypersensitive tend to gravitate towards each other, they end up with each other. And the other thing is they can't be honest with each other. Because they're so I'll meet men who haven't touched their wives in years. And they'll say, she's gained so much weight, I'm not attracted to anymore. And I was like, why don't you tell her so that you can work? Oh, she will have, she will react so badly. Sounds like so you're just going to have this dead marriage and both of you are going to stick to it because you're both too sensitive to have that conversation. They're like, yeah. So they have this hypersensitivity that makes honesty impossible in relationships. It makes honesty and intimacy impossible. If you are a hypersensitive person, it's an incapability for you to have real connections in your life because you don't allow for truth to be the glue in your relationship. And so people tiptoe around you, even your partners will tiptoe around you and you'll never know what people truly think or want for you. So my partner will easy say, hey, babe, like we're both gaining a bit weight. Let's get into the gym, let's work out, no problem. Or babe, like, you know, your hair is looking different, like do it properly, whatever it is. But that keeps us attracted to each other. But if I was super, super sensitive, he can't say it, then I can't say it. And then we grow apart emotionally. And that's not really a good thing in relationships. Is that similar? Let's talk because that's a that's a good segue into one of the things that you talk about in the book as one of the red flags up in an area, which by the way, there's like so much stuff in the book that I want to talk about and stuff out of the book. I have to, I think what I want to do actually is use my phone with the questions because it's easier for me to look at. So don't think I'm being rude, please. When I'm doing it. So last minute, I was like, this is not going to a full thing. How is she going to? Oh, but your but the content is so amazing that I mean, because Saadi, she developed 10 questions for every therapist to ask their patient and or their partner to ask their other partner. Yeah. And that's and it's basically called the red flag indication. Is that what red flag indicators? Yeah, red flag indicators, which I think when I went through these questions, they were brilliant. But you just said some and one of them that I read through because we're talking about dysfunction is people pleasing a little bit. So that so someone cannot be honest with their partner. Does that kind of does that seep into being a people? Yeah, unfortunately. And I have the question I ask every therapist to ask their partner is, are you a nice guy or a nice girl? The moment you they are, unfortunately, their relationships are either going to end up abusive or they're going to be difficult relationships. And the reason why people please us have the worst relationships way more than narcissistic people, narcissistic people have the best relationships. And the reason they have the best relationships is they don't settle for less. They think they really deserving. They expect love and loyalty. They have amazing relationships. The people that suffer the most in relationships are actually people pleases. And the reason people please us suffer the most in relationships is because they have a set of fears that I talk about in the book, the first fear that they have and they have a deep rooted fear of the truth. They are terrified of the truth. The people pleases would be so scared to ask questions that would lead to the truth. So maybe have a people please a client and I'm like, why have they been gone for so many days? Like where's your partner been? Why have they not contacted you? Well, I don't want to ask. I don't want to know. Like I haven't. And they rather just not know. And so they would much rather just, you know, bury the head on the sand and ask these deeper questions. I remember having one client and he found that his wife wasn't sleeping with him, but he found that she was taking the, is it the plan B or the morning after? Yeah. And she was taking the morning after and you'd see like wrappers of that in the house. And I said, did you ask her? And he's like, no, I don't want to ask her that question. I didn't want to know. I don't want to. And I was like, but wouldn't you want to be like, hey, like we're not sleeping together. Why do you need to take this? He just didn't want to know the truth. And that happens with men and women. They just don't want to know the truth. They'd collect the data, but they don't ask the truth. And the reason they don't want to, uh, the second fear they have is they have an intense fear of conflict. Conflict for them is like the worst thing in the world. Whereas, you know, non-people pleasers are like, hey, look, you're late to meet me. Hey, what's going on? Where are you? Like, you're so late. Like, can you let me know? Oh, and they hash it out. And in two minutes, they both forget. But what people pleasers do is they're so terrified of conflicts that they build up all the things they're upset about and make narratives in their head, but they don't say it. So they build up. So even if they have a conflict with a friend, they'll say, oh, she must have been liking pictures and she was doing this. And they collect all this data, make a narrative, but none of it has been fact checked because they don't have the conversation with the person. So they have that fear of truth, the fear of conflict, and they have an intense fear of rejection. They're so scared of being rejected that they tiptoe around the person and please them as much as possible. Whereas if you're not a people pleaser, someone says, you do you want to go for sushi? You might not like sushi. You're so no, I don't like sushi. Let's just go somewhere else. And people pleaser will think, oh, yeah, okay, no problem. Because in their mind, they think if they give an alternative perspective, that person's going to reject them. So I just have to tiptoe around them as much as possible. And they're so scared of that rejection that they actually feel super lonely. Even though people pleases, you know, they've done nothing wrong to anybody. They've never harmed anybody. They're always the person that people forget about and don't love truly because they don't know them truly. Yeah. Yeah. So many people pleasers are deeply lonely. Even though they might be married, they might be with people. They're so deeply lonely because they don't have conflict and truthful connections with people. Nobody truly knows what they're really thinking and feeling. So they're always playing a role around their relationships rather than being themselves. So they feel more lonely than anybody else. And they suffer particularly in toxic relationships because imagine if I was a total people pleaser, after two minutes, you'd get bored of my company. You'd be like, you're not being yourself. I don't know anything about you. It's boring. It's boring. Yeah. Whereas a narcissistic person would be like, perfect. No problem. You're not giving me any pushback. You'll do what I say. You lend me money. You go to the restaurants I want to go to. This is perfect. So people pleases are the exact ingredient that a narcissist needs in order to form a relationship. So does that people pleaser and a narcissist usually end up together? They always end up together. But they're both to contribute for that dynamic. So they will always come to me and say, my ex is another one of the questions I encourage people. As I always ask, is your ex like to ask, do you think your ex is a narcissist? People who always say the ex is a narcissist tend to have narcissistic traits themselves. So usually if you have been with a narcissist, chances are you'll never think it. You will think they're the best thing in the world. You will think they're amazing and so on and so forth because you'll think you were the problem because that's how narcissists work. They convince you of their own narrative. But those people who break up with somebody and automatically he's a narcissist, automatically they're a narcissist survivor, automatically they're posting about this. They are just a victim. They've got a real victim mentality because a regular person would think he screwed me over, he pissed me off, he's terrible. These things happen. But somebody who thinks that they're so above the rules, think, how can you do this to me? I'm so wonderful. How can someone hurt me? You must have a disorder. So they spend their life kind of diagnosing other people rather than just realizing we all make mistakes. Someone's piece of shit. I'm a piece of shit sometimes. We all contribute to the dynamic. So when people over identify with their ex being a narcissist, usually they have a victim mindset. That's interesting. I feel that that's one of the things that are constantly on social media. Everybody is a narcissist. There's certain tropes or whatever. That's become like a very popular thing. You know, narcissists, isn't that kind of overused a little bit? So overused. There's a difference between somebody because 90% of the time when I have clients that claim that their ex is a narcissist, what really happened is they were forcing someone who didn't love them to love them. That was all that was really happening. They're like, he's a narcissist. I wanted him to do this for me and do this for our birthday. I wanted him to get married to me. I wanted to have a baby with him and he just didn't want to do it. And then, but essentially you were forcing someone who didn't really love you to try and love you. And now you're claiming that they have a personality disorder. And really, if they were doing this all along, it's okay for somebody not to love you. So it's okay that they don't want to be with you. It's okay that they might cheat on you even. You just let them go. But you holding onto them is what led to this dynamic of one person abusing you when they didn't, if you just let them go earlier, they wouldn't have that opportunity. So we're talking about like the people pleasers or the narcissist and how they usually end up together. Yeah. Two people pleasers, probably not a great dynamic. No, not at all because no one can lead. Yeah. They're both submissive. So men who are people pleasers are always usually with narcissistic women and women who are people pleasers are with narcissistic men. But then with each other, they almost get the ick with, oh, they don't have a personality and they don't know how to lead. They don't realize what they're describing as their own behaviors that they don't like. So they don't have a leader that will push the relationship and they don't have someone to follow because they're both people pleasing. So it's a little bit trickier for them. If they can overcome that people pleasing, it would be beautiful because they're both giving in relationships. They're both super loving and they both just want to be happily with someone. But they, they struggle to overcome it. But if they can overcome it, those two people would be great for each other. Okay. So what about two narcissists together? Impossible. It would genuinely be very impossible because I genuinely try not to use the word narcissistic. I know. Let's say two people with narcissistic. Toxic. Or how about two people with narcissistic qualities? Yeah. Well, here's the thing. Even when you see these kind of narcissistic kind of qualities in men and women, say for example, if a girl is like a gold digger and people usually, whenever men talking about narcissistic women, they're talking about those really sexy girls that post up there in private jets and they want gifts from men. And they usually label that as a narcissist, but she can only derive that from men who are using her for sex. She can't do that for a nice loving man who wants a loving family and a loving life. Yeah. She's doing that for a man who's so obsessed with sex and so obsessed with having a sexy girl who would leave his wife and kid to just go be with this woman because she's got a sexy picture on Instagram. He's also narcissistic. He's also very narcissistic. So he's not a victim in this dynamic. So they, they just have different kind of needs. It's a transaction. It's a transactional and they're both very dark in that sense. They both have that dark nature. So I only see narcissists with each other when I see escorts with a man that was paying and then they end up together, they tend to have both have narcissistic traits. By the way, what I've been very surprised about how common this is now, isn't it? Meet people that I would never have thought in a million years had escorts as a girlfriend. I'm seeing it like all the time. Is it common in LA because it's super common in Dubai? I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say super common in every social circle. But I do see men who have a lot of money. They don't want to be bothered or they, they're very insecure. And they feel like if they have like someone who just does what they say, it makes them feel, what I don't understand is like, don't they realize that these people are being paid? I don't understand that that was on the psychology of this. I genuinely see nothing wrong with transactional relationships. I really have no judgment at all. But my golden rule is don't be delusional. Don't be delusional. Don't be delusional. There is absolutely nothing wrong with transactional relationships. And this donate, honestly, as a woman, when you try and work hard and do it the right way, it's so much slower. It's so slow. It's so draining. It's so hardworking. If you can't just take pictures of your feet and sell it, go for it. And these men don't reward hardworking women ever. Like, you know, and I'm saying this as a therapist who's worked. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, because I've worked and helped millions of men, like millions. My video will go viral and so many men will say that they helped me, but they're not paying up to pay me and say, thank you so much. But if I posted like a nude or like these only fan skills, they're making 100 million a year, some of them. Oh, crazy. Crazy amount. So it just shows that men are not donating that money to charity. They're only donating that money when it's attached to a woman that they want to have sex with. So which is totally fine. But here's where they kid themselves. Men, it would make total sense if they're like, she's using me for my money, no problem. But they kid themselves into thinking she's in love with him and she's loyal to him. And it's such a form of insanity that I just can't believe it. I have to sit there and how do I not like burst out laughing? No, I don't. They genuinely believe it. And they think, oh, because, you know, I look after her. Of course she loves me, but I look great for my age. I'm this, I'm that. I'm like, really, you think that this 22 year old girl is going to be with a 60 year old man, really? And if she wants, if she didn't have to be, you weren't paying her. They always say the sentence, I look so young for my age. You might look young for a 50 year old, but you still don't look 26 and you're nowhere near. So it's that delusional mentality. Delusional. One thing I would say, and I have to understand men in this, is as women age, and I can see this even with my own experience, our happiness level just naturally decreases with time and with effort and energy and everything like that. And we genuinely start to get more and more annoyed with men as we get annoyed with men with age. It happens when you're younger, you're a lot happier as well. So I do understand that element. I've heard that too. I've heard men say, well, there's so much easier. They're more fun. Yeah. They're happier and get them to have a care. Like they don't have a care in the world. Yeah, which I understand. So if you're going into these transactional relationships, saying she's really beautiful, she's a lot of beautiful body and she's using me for my finances. She'll probably cheat on me and she'll probably use me, no problem. But I don't make her the mother of my kids and I don't get married to her. No problem. But if you're going to try and have a family with her and you try and get married to her and then you're shocked when you're now served divorce papers and she's stealing on your money, how can you be the victim in that? And they'll say, she's a narcissist. I gave her everything. She lied to me. She was cheating on me the whole time. She's not a narcissist. You knew exactly what you were signing up for. So my advice to men in that position is enjoy every moment of being with this beautiful young girl. Just don't commit to that situation, but they want to. They really want to get used and abused. So I can't, you can't save them. I know. Why do they want to get used and abused? Is it more of, is it an ego thing? Is it more for because of an insecurity? Like what is like these some of these, some of these people who are doing it are very smart, very like self aware and they're still going through it and they still have the delusion. Right. It really depends again, it's a question in my book, how they grew up. And I don't mean childhood. I don't mean parents. I mean, more, were they attractive? Now men who grew up super attractive, what happens to them is they start to see all women kind of available. They feel like they can access all types of women. They don't see it as like, they don't put women's beauty on a pedestal. They've always had it their whole life. So they kind of are just with women who are good to them. So really attractive men will focus on who they have a lot in common with, who treats them well and just who they can raise a family with. That's what attractive men who grew up attractive the whole life will think. A bit like Tony Robbins. You'll see his wife, perfect kind of match for him. Like it makes sense. You look at them and it makes sense. Or like Lewis Howes, all these people that you can tell that they've chosen women that make sense for them. Men who never grow up. Age appropriate. Who are like, yeah. Comparatively appropriate. All of those things. They can be appropriate. The main thing is they know that they can have children with that woman. And if that child turned out like the woman, they'd be over the mood. She's got great characteristics. What men who grew up without looks did is that firstly, they put women's appearance on a pedestal because they could never access it. So they think beautiful women are the key to happiness because they never got access to it. The other thing that happens with those men is when they do finally get with a beautiful woman, they become extremely submissive. They have no boundaries left whatsoever. They're just so proud of themselves that they got her, that they don't care how she treats them in private. As long as publicly they look like they've got her. So it's really about their sexual confidence, especially when they're growing up and also their sexual confidence in general. And I know I don't like to use the term, but you know that big D energy or whatever it is. Men with small D energy will need a woman to make them look like a man. Men with big D energy, well, they are the man themselves. The woman is just an accessory. Like it's not like as in not in that way, but she's just an add-on. Whereas for a man without that energy, she is the everything. So that's why they get a little bit more attached. It's actually if you really, if I think about it, if I go back, if I go through my head and people I know, I find that to be so accurate. Sadly. Yeah. It's so accurate. That's why this is what I'm saying. Like so much of your stuff I've read and I'm like, wow, that's so spot on. Like it's so accurate. If you really take a step back and think about it, it's amazing. So thank you. No, it's amazing. I have like, okay, so let's just go over some stuff here because let's just talk. Let's go. Let's go to the basics here. Like what are the foundations of a healthy relationship? Let's start with that. Yeah. Because then we're going everywhere and I didn't even ask you the first question to kind of go into everything. Yeah. But tell me what those are. Well, the green flags I talk about is the first thing is there has to be mutual attraction. The foundation to any healthy relationship is mutual attraction. If it's one way she's more attracted to him or he's more attracted to her, unfortunately, it causes about power imbalance. Attraction has far more of an implication on the relationship than we realize. If one person is far more heavily attracted to the other or they're not attracted to each other at all, they'll either go into siblings where they're just kind of roommates or it will be really submissive because the person who wants the relationship more will be begging and clawing for love. So mutual attraction is really important, which is why honesty is really important throughout your marriage. So as you're losing attraction, you talk about it, you try and improve it, you do whatever it is. You keep on top of yourself if you can, especially now where men have access to porn and all this stuff. It's better to try and keep that intimacy as much as possible. So always start with mutual attraction. Second thing I would say is try and look for people who have good work ethic. I know there's this big thing that masculine men want a housewife and they want all of that. My personal experience and working with so many clients and you have seen it even in my own life. Back in the day, maybe not working was fine as women because we'd kept busy with our tribe of other housewives and we'd cook from scratch and we'd be busy. Now, if women don't have a work or a purpose, what happens is it's very easy to get depressed. You're always scrolling, you always feed negative media. Life when you're not busy is a really ugly one now. We have TV shows where a little bit better because at least you'd have to concentrate and be dead. Now just constant short form content with terrible messaging. An un-busy life is really difficult. So we're and also your brain is not designed to be un-busy. We're designed to be problem solving. The more problem solving we are, the more happy we are. There's no other solution to it. So if she's just at home or you're just a high value man and by bringing her everything, she will start to lose her purpose and she'll blame you for why she's depressed and the relationship will start to plummet. So always choose people with good work ethic. Men and women, men is a given. You need a man with good work ethic, but I would say both people need good work ethic if you want a good foundation of a relationship. The third thing I would say is try and look for people with similar families. And I don't mean if you're dysfunctional, you need a dysfunctional one, but they have some level of similarity in their upbringing. The reason I say that is if someone's had really, really toxic upbringing and somebody's had a really healthy upbringing, the healthy person will talk to them in their healthy language and the toxic person will talk to them in the toxic language and they don't understand each other. They're literally speaking a different language. In good circumstances, a healthy person can make that the person who grew up toxic in a healthy environment, but it's a lot of work for them. So if you did grow up somewhat stable, try and look for stability if you can. It's really difficult becoming a therapist in your relationship. It's super, super difficult. And it's really difficult when their family hates your family and it's just not a nice environment for raising kids in. So if you can choose family that relatively get on or similar to some extent, that helps. And the final thing, sorry, I'm going on and on. But the final thing I would say, the fourth thing is having similar values. And what I mean by similar values is we agree fundamentally on the main things, what's right and wrong. So if I think it's right for my child to be transgender and you think it's really, really wrong, we're going to fight so much. Whereas if we fundamentally agree on what's right, what's wrong, we generally get on easier. Life is a bit easier. So just do you think it's wrong to text an ex? I think it's totally fine on a birthday and he thinks it's the worst thing ever. We're going to bump heads all the time. But if we're both in agreement, with or without each other, that's how we think. Life becomes easier with somebody you think the same as. Yeah, that's absolutely true. Sometimes it's too late, right? Sometimes you find out a little too late. It happens. You know, I'm all about finding an edge. The small daily habits that give you more energy, focus and resilience. But that's why I am hooked on monobitality. Most people are mineral deficient, and that means low energy, brain fog, slow recovery and dull skin. But mana flips the switch by giving your body a complete spectrum of minerals. It actually knows how to use. We're talking shilligit from the Himalayas, or must from the Dead Sea and marine plasma from the ocean. Plus amino acids and 88 other trace minerals. The benefits are real. We're talking steady all day energy, sharper focus, faster recovery, a stronger immunity, plus glowing skin. But the biggest win, it fuels your cells for real longevity. Think of it as like a cellular switch on formula. Not as a stimulant, but the raw power your body needs to create energy and repair itself. Try it now, and I bet you'll be hooked too. Go to manavitality.com and use code Jennifer20 for a discount. That's manavitality.com. M-A-N-N-A-vitality.com and use code Jennifer20. Do you believe then, I mean, we talked about this earlier about like love language, and all these like kind of known attachment styles. What do you think about this whole attachment style thing? It's a very popular thing now. Like he's an avoidant, no contact, like if you're secure, what is your take on all of this? I talk about this in the book that I genuinely believe that sometimes we label people as avoidant and really they're just not attracted to us. It could be as simple as that. They just don't attract to us. Now, there's definitely truth in the theory. There's definitely anxious people. There's definitely avoidant people and there's definitely secure people. But I would say before you label people, you have to realise that they actually, because let's say for me, I'm a very anxious person. I can get very insecure and I can get all of those ways. But if I was talking to somebody I'm not attracted to, they would think I'm avoidant. They'd actually hardly reply. You know, when she ever wants to see me, I'm like, but I don't want to see you. That doesn't mean I'm like that in general. So I think it's a misunderstanding of like, I think all of those things only matter when you've got the foundation of are you attracted to each other and you want to be with each other. If you're attracted to each other and want to be with each other, then the behaviour start acting a bit difficult. Then there is some truth to the theory. But if the fundamentals aren't there, then the theory doesn't explain and can't undo the lack of attraction. And I think that's underestimated in these theories. You know, I find that to be also, like again, spot on. Like I think that we're so quick to label somebody. That's why therapy to me, I find to be counterproductive and useless. Because you're having someone there who is like, you know, your cheerleader who's like egging you on. Like, yes, yes, he's an avoidant. Yes, yes, no content. Yes, yes. And it's like, I guess because I'm such a realist, the way I would see it is like, well, why can't it just be what it is? Which is maybe the person just isn't attracted to you. Just doesn't want to be with you. Maybe he's a nice partner. Just doesn't like you. Like why does there have to be something more to it? Yeah. Where now you build up this whole reason of why you're not together beyond what is just the fact. Yeah. And I'd have a client like, you know, we were talking about the big age gap. Yeah. I had a client, he was like, yeah, he was like 48 years old. She's a 23 year old, beautiful Swedish girl. And he's just an average looking 48 year old. He went to his therapist and like, she's an avoidant. They went to sex therapy. Oh, you have to make her feel safe. It was her child. I'm like, bitch, she's not a child. I can't do that. I can save you $10,000 in therapy. She doesn't want to have sex with you. OK, next. Next, End of Story. Yes. And he literally built this narrative that it's her childhood and she's got these attachment issues. I have a friend like this. And I was like, and she and then he's caught her sleeping with so many other men. I'm like, where are her sexual issues when it comes to other men? No, there's none. There's none. I think it comes down to the foundation. You keep on saying like this book could be one page, which is are you attracted to him? Is he attracted to you? OK. And End of Story. Let's move on. It does help a lot. It helps a lot. All of this rhetoric and jargon over like the most basic thing, like all of this stuff, like, oh, he's a narcissist. Oh, she's an avoidant. Oh, he's a no contact. He's pushing and pulling. I think it's all of this is just another way of saying, you know what? Like if someone's into you, they're going to want to be with you and they'll respond to you. Yeah. And they're going to text you and they're going to call you. Like it's just maybe you that they're not interested in. And the other thing I would say is it's also not necessarily a disorder because this day and age, there's so much hookups going on that people are just not used to investing in people. Yeah, that's another problem. They're not used to calling people regularly, seeing them regularly, texting and investing and turning it into a long term relationship. People who've been married or in long term relationships are in long term habits. So they might text a bit more, call a bit more, want commitment more because they're in that habit. Doesn't mean they're securely attached. They're in that habit and other people will ignore you all the time, never want to see you because they're in the hookup habit. So sometimes it's not a disorder. It's just some people have certain habits as well. And if you don't like the habits and instead of spending time, money and energy analyzing them, analyze yourself and ask yourself why you're here. Like you heard you say that. Yeah. I think so. I heard you on someone else's podcast talking about like looking at their like their background, like how they were used to having relationships because someone's used to having long term relationships. They're used to the constant calling and the constant getting together this weekend and the constant communication. But if someone has like never had a relationship and they are only in the hookup mode, like you said, they don't know what they don't know. They're not like you're they're not trained for the for the other way. You know what I mean? And that's a big problem in big cities. You'll say if you go to a small city, let's say you grew up in Utah in a small city, you'll go back then. Everybody's married with kids. And it's not because they just happen to find their soulmate. It's just that everybody in that environment is used to monotony. They're used to doing the same thing every day, eating the same thing, going to the same restaurants every day. They're not overstimulated. So when they meet a partner where it's very monotonous, very basic, very like doing the same thing again and again, they're totally OK with that life. And it's beautiful that they found that. But if you speak to people in LA, New York, Miami, Dubai is one of them. Big cities are used to different stimulation every single day. So those people get used to being stimulated a lot more. So they're not used to monotony. So long term relationships gets a little bit tricky for them. So what do people do, by the way, if they do live in a big city and they want a monogamous relationship and they want to find a high valued person, but the culture and their life doesn't allow for that. I know. Like that's because maybe they found the right, they know they have the right person, but they don't have the habit yet. You have to practice the skills of monogamy. How? Yeah. But not even more like how do you practice the skills even to get into monogamy? You have to avoid polygamy, essentially. It's not so much what you do, it's what you don't do. What you don't do? Yeah. So like, for example, if you really want to be in a fulfilling monogamous relationship, you have to get into the habit of rejecting alternatives. That doesn't just mean not going on other dates, but it also means like not following people that you're super attracted to, not watching porn all the time. You don't stimulate yourself with alternatives. So people who have the skills of monogamy don't do anything special other than reject alternatives. They keep rejecting. It's a bit like people who have great bodies. They don't do anything amazing other than reject really bad food. They reject it all the time. And then they just get into the habit of going to the gym and everything like that. But it's not so much what they eat, it's what they don't eat. They just don't have it like, for example, I can tell me and you don't eat the same food. I can tell you, if we went to a restaurant. How do you know? What do you eat? I know for a fact, if we went to a restaurant and stuff, I know we would eat different things. What would you eat? I would eat sugary, carby. Tell me, we're going to have dinner. So what would you order for dinner? When we do, we're going to keep a track of this. I can almost tell you would say things like that's a bit too sweet for me or that's a bit too heavy for me and stuff like that. And you would probably get full a bit quicker. Me, if you ate with me, you'd be like, there's a wild animal on my table because someone help her. Because I just enjoy so much. So it's a habit thing. It's funny. I see what you're saying though. But that's a great analogy, right? Like you learn, it's not about like what you do is what you don't do. What you don't do. So people in your shape just don't eat late at night really bad food. It's just not their habit. No, but I do eat a lot like a wild animal. I just eat a lot of protein and vegetables. That's it. And you just don't do the behaviors that would lead to you losing your physique. Whereas people who lose their physique like myself and people like me, we do the bad things. It's not that we can't do the right things. It's just that we indulge in the bad things. So the hookup culture and Tinder and all these things were designed for people to do the bad things. It was designed to give you so many alternatives. It was designed for you to get into short term relationships. It was designed to keep your options open. So it was giving you the prototype of how to never be in a monotonous, monogamous relationship. So but that's that is the dating culture now. It's all dating apps. Like how are people meeting people if it's not on these dating apps? It's really difficult. Unfortunately, you do have to stick. You almost have to play the game. It's a bit like, you know, government takes your tax. You almost have to accept it. It's going to do. So it is really difficult. But what I would say is that listen to your gut. Like if you feel like the apps or this person is making you behave in a way that you're not comfortable with. Say that they want hookups. They want three sums. They want all these things. And you're just going along with it because you think that's the culture. Listen to your know. Even if you don't know what you want, you always know what you don't want. And if a relationship is making you uncomfortable, stop that. Or just say what you would prefer if they would agree with you. Perfect if they don't know worries, but you can't get overly attached to the person to the point where you're letting them lead you off a cliff, which does happen a lot for a lot of women. I find for women in particular, I don't I don't think women that do sleep around a lot. Then I don't think that was so their attention. A lot of the girls, they're just like, I just didn't have a choice because he was like putting pressure on me. He wanted pictures. He wanted this, he wanted that. And they also learn very quickly that the more you become like this, the more men reward you, the more attention they'll give you, the more likely they are to see you. And so they end up playing the game, but artificially, because it's not really what they want. It's not what they want. And so. OK, so how is it when people like are you look in your experience, people who are dating on these apps, are they finding love or is it just all hookups? It's difficult. The only people that tend to have success are people who have both come out of long term relationships. They tend to have success because those people are, again, they're in the habit of relationship. Yeah, in the habit. And they are in the habit of loving somebody. They also in the habit of checking on somebody. And they also in the habit of monogamy. They don't get the same joy of having four or five dates in a week. They get more joy of knowing one person's body really well, one person really well and connecting with that one person a lot. So they it works out best when two people have kind of been in long term relationships and they're kind of freshly single. Some men will be like, oh, I need more time. But the ones that are actually a bit more mature, they realize what is time. You're just wasting it. That's all it is. Yeah. And those people tend to work better. If you're a person in those relationship habits, but you're talking to somebody who's not in relationship habits, it will be like pulling teeth a little bit. Yeah, on both ends. Yeah, it will be a little bit like pulling teeth. So try it if they've been single for a really long time, particularly men. It's a bit trickier. It's not impossible. It's just a bit trickier. No, I think that's again, very valid. A lot of my guy friends who have they've been single forever, they're single forever. They're forever. And the ones who have had relationship, they're always the ones finding relationships again. And the weird thing that I another thing I talk about in the book is people think that the more women a man sleeps with, the better he's in bed. But I can tell you that's not true. I can promise you that one. Because I've worked with so many women and the number one feedback they give is the men that have been in relationship. So you just make love. They're in a they know a woman's body. They know it so well. Whereas the one night stand man doesn't have repeat kind of he doesn't have that repeated feedback. They have no idea what to do. No idea whatsoever. So they equate amount of women with sexual quality when it's actually not. It's how much satisfaction you gave each woman. If you didn't give her a lot, you're not getting any feedback or you're not getting any experience from that. Yeah, I think that's a crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. It's so silly. I find a big trend now too is women, older women with younger men. Oh, yeah. Have you not seen that? I completely understand it as well, though. Because I think what happens, I think it only happens with successful women. Well, yeah, it's not happening with someone who is like, you know, working at Walmart. She's not dating the, you know, the 25 year old model from Armani. But yeah, Successful women have this one key ingredient that other women don't have. They can finally, especially if she's already had kids and I completely understand it. And I'm also, if I'm honest, I'm a bit envious of these women. Because what happens when you have kids before you have kids, you have to think like, you know, father of my child or he has to be successful. He has to be this. You are willing to compromise on who brings you the most fun and who you're most attracted to. But once you have kids, a bit like Mariah Carey or Madonna, the moment you've had your kids and you're financially successful, you don't have to worry if he's rich. You don't have to worry if he's going to give you kids. You just have to worry, is it going to make me happy and am I attracted to? Yeah. Those are the only two ingredients you have to worry about. And there's millions of men lining up for that. They're like, oh my gosh, she's putting no pressure on me. And she's just fun because you go back to being fun because there's no pressure on the man. So what happens is a lot, I think it only happens when you're successful and when you've had kids. I think that also helps when you've had kids and they're out the way and success is out the way. Then you can genuinely choose. But doesn't a guy want to have a family and kids? A lot of men either have it or they, in their mind, this is a problem with young men, they think that they've got until forever. They actually don't. But in their mind, they think they've got until forever and they really, really don't have until forever. I think they have the same biological clock as women. They just don't realize it because as they age, what happens is if you're 40 years old as a man, you need a lot younger to still have kids. And then the emotional gap increases. You don't meet young girls as much or you have to buy them or there's and they also there's they raised on TikTok and Snapchat while you're a growing man with a business. So the gap in the intellectual intimacy increases so, so much. So as they age, it becomes difficult to find other types of compatibility when you want to have kids and you go a lot younger. That's a great point. Yeah, because I see these men who are like 55, they're like, I'm not dating a girl in her 40s. I want to have kids. I'm like, but what's a woman in her 30s going to have in common with you? She's going to be totally different or woman in her 20s. And so they're itching for that young woman. And when they want to have a family, they don't want it to be transactional. They want it to be genuine. But it's very difficult for a 55 year old to have a genuine connection with a 30 year old. So they they struggle as well. They just don't realize it. You know, again, everything you say, I'm like, yes. Yeah, I feel like such a I feel like such a people pleaser. Because they agree with everything you say. I'll give it because I think when you hear snippets and I'm sure your audience might be people who have snippets, they're like, she's full of shit. But when you put it in context, I promise you, I only got this understanding because I didn't follow the regular therapeutic advice and I got to the crux of the problem. And I found it again and again and again, the same problems. And it's we think we're so unique as humans. We're so much more similar than we realize. Oh, I think I mean, by the way, I also think like I love I'm very curious and I'm a big observer and I ask a million besides this podcast. I literally would I ask people a million personal questions. And I always come to the same conclusion with people. You know what I mean? Like I think some of this isn't rocket science. It's not. It's not. It's a lot of it is just like having the wherewithal and honesty to like dig deep and figure out what the real truth is. People don't like the truth. Yeah. I mean, we just said we don't like the truth. They like to, you know, put a lot of bows and lipstick around it. Yeah. But sometimes it's like what it is what it is. It is. And like we met two minutes before the podcast and we're talking about childhood trauma in two seconds. Yes. Thank you to your team. I told you guys. I know. Because it's just a quicker way to connect. And when people are open and they are what happens with people who are open, they ask questions because they don't mind answering questions. Yeah. But people who are closed don't ask questions because they don't want people to know the real them. But the more you like yourself, the more easy it is to be open. I find super private people when they say I'm so private. I'm so private. What they're really saying is I don't like me and I don't want you guys to find out about me. But when you're an open person, you probably like you or you may terms with parts of yourself that you don't like. Yeah. You don't mind sharing it. Exactly. And I think that's a very good point. I mean, we do talk a lot of the book or you begin the book with like how low self-esteem is kind of like the, I guess, the domino that kind of leads to a lot of these problems. Yeah. How do people even have an assessment if they have low self-esteem? Is there things that people can look out for? Absolutely. I think the first thing is when they ask themselves how anxious are you? Because anxiety is a great signal of how much you like yourself. And people who are super anxious, what happens is they don't make decisions fast. Low self-esteem people are super slow with everything. They do things slow. High self-esteem people are like, I don't care if you do it right or wrong, just do it fast. Just get to the point, do it. I need it at this time because they have a confidence that worst case scenario, do it fast, I'll fix it. I'll feel low self-esteem people do things, everything slowly. Everything is slow. So if they're in a bad relationship, it takes them forever to make a decision. Bad work takes them forever. So they're super slow. They're poor decision makers in general. And I would say the biggest sign of low self-esteem is that you have no self-control at all. So you can't control yourself. So you don't control what you eat. You don't control what you spend. You don't control what you do in relationships. You lack self-control. The more self-control you can exhibit in your life, the more you start to respect yourself and the more you start to like yourself. It really does boil down to how much self-control you have. And in relationships, how you can figure out if you have high or low self-esteem is you ask yourself, if I did have high self-esteem, would I choose this person? A lot of people choose this person, but they hate so much about that person. And you have to ask yourself then why you're with them. And there are always, the reason is low self-esteem. They either don't think they have alternatives or they just don't have the confidence to make an executive decision. Whereas people who make good decisions, it really boils down to good and fast decisions. I remember seeing an interview with Jeff Bezos and they were asking him how he developed this. And he said, I just know human nature, get things done fast and everybody is happy with somebody who does things fast. Do things slow and everything's ruined. So he said, I know that people and I, it's so true. People would rather have like terrible vitamins from Amazon than wait a month to get good vitamins from a good company. I'm the same. I just want it in the next day. So the more you realize that fast equates to high self-esteem, more than we realize, get things done, get shit done, get your house done, get your body done, get whatever it is, do things fast. It shows that you have a confidence in your decision making. Slow, slow people means that they overthink the problems and the poor consequences, but they don't find the solutions. Right. Solution people think, OK, fine, it's going to be problematic. I chose a bad flight, but I just need to get to the country. I don't care what the time that it heads off. And they get to the point. So I would say that your speed in your decision making is a big indicator of your self-esteem. That's a great point. Again, I could just basically recognize you and just have a little recording. But it's not fair that you agree with me. We agree that we're going to join. Because that's why I like you so much. But I want to ask you a question, though, that I've been remiss and I've been trying to, I wanted to ask this before. And I kind of, we got sidetracked with all this good stuff because someone like you got, you were recently, I guess you would call it canceled. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Can we just talk about what happened with you? Yeah. Because I know that some people are going to be listening to this and being curious about, isn't this the woman that God canceled what happened to her? Didn't she say that horrible thing? Yeah. About, because what I was going to talk to you about, my next thing on my list was adultery and all the things. So I wanted to talk about being cheated on. What in God's name happened with you? And were you canceled? I am, well, I definitely am. And you are canceled, yeah? Yeah, I am. And I don't mean to make you uncomfortable, but I thought we both like bold and blunt. Yes, absolutely. So I figured this is a perfect time to ask you. And luckily I've just got the call, you know, I handled it in Dubai and she's been convicted for defamation. I'll tell you what happened. She's been convicted and, you know, we've got the conviction for defamation. But the only problem with Dubai, they try and keep it private, but I can still say it online and I can say what I need to say. But it wasn't true. Not at all. So I'll tell you what really happened. I, in 2021, I used to work as a teacher and I used to be teaching all this time. And that's all I was doing. I was teaching psychology. And then recently, in about August time, some troll on the Internet said, I released some voice note and it was me saying, I'm going to get with your guy or your man on his wedding day and on his birthday and all this stuff. And when I first heard it, it was like, oh, it's AI like, I don't need to worry about this. And then it went viral. And then I spoke to someone in a legal team and she's like, are you sure this is AI? Like, you need to check it because if you just say that, you need to be sure it's AI. So go check. So I went to the police even because in Dubai, they take these things a bit serious and they said, no, no, you have to double check before you accuse that. So go ask everybody that you knew in 2021 because that's what it said. It said it was in 2021. Everybody you knew and see if there's any truth to what's been said. It was five years ago. It was five years ago in 2021. Yeah. So it wasn't even recently? No, no, no. The voice note said 2021. So I was like, OK, I'll ask everybody I worked with. Maybe somebody knows what's going on. So I rang everybody I worked with. They're like, sorry, I don't have a clue what this is or anything. But one guy said to me, oh, this is actually your voice. This is true. And I said, what are you talking about? And he goes, yeah, this is true because do you remember that some girl that I was dating called you? And this guy is a young guy, personal trainer. You can see him online as well. He is not married. He's not engaged. He's never been married, never been in a serious relationship. And I was like, I'm not understanding. And he goes, do you remember that you were sending me some memes online because he was like a guy that was sleeping with lots of girls on those dating apps? And I must have sent him some memes about cheating on girls and how to get away with it or hiding your Tinder or whatever it is. One of the girls that he was seeing called Lena Elfala, I'll send you a picture so you can add it in this bit. She was seeing him at the time very briefly. They weren't in a serious relationship by his own court admission. He said I wasn't in a serious relationship with her. I thought, she saw it and she called me and she said, why are you sending him memes like that? Are you trying to suck his dick? And I said, excuse me, don't get rude. And you can hear me say, don't get rude. I said, if I wanted to, I could suck it and you know, me on bold. So if someone says to me, are you trying to do this? I said, if I wanted to, I could do it on birthday. And I spit that out. And I said, and he said, and because he used to tell me that these girls are always harassing. And I say, there's even been times that they cut that off where I was going to say that nobody wants your man. And I've never even responded to your man. They cut that tiny bit off, just took that one sentence, put it on the internet and said I was with a married man. And she's never been married. She's never been engaged. He's never been married and engaged. When I told him about this, she was recording me without my consent. I had no idea it existed. He even said, I haven't spoken to her in five years. I have no idea what she is. I like I only dated for a couple of weeks. I said, can you at least find her? He's like, I don't know her number. I don't know her at all. It was so brief. So I had to go through the police and they have convicted her of defamation. But she recorded me without me knowing, six years, five, six years ago, about a guy that she wasn't even serious with, took a tiny snippet of it, sent it to this trawl and it went viral. And I've never spoken to her or anything after this, after this conversation. Never spoken to her, ever. And I and she was not even with this guy. I was not with this guy. There was no motivation. She didn't even get paid to do this. She just did it out of her own free will, out of nothing. And I don't even remember even speaking to her. So that's what she did. Serious? That's actually what happened. There's no public records about ever being married. Her boyfriend at the time actually messaged me and said, hey, why are you spreading rumors that my girlfriend was engaged or married? I go, I know she wasn't married. I'm saying that she wasn't. And he goes, but I've seen a video saying that she was married and you're with her husband. She's never been married. I've been with her for five years. Who is this guy? So I even got her boyfriend. He was obviously too scared to ask her, but he asked me and I even got, I'll add the screenshots as well. I'll make sure I send it to you. But this completely out of nowhere. And it shook me out of so much because I had no idea that this person even existed, let alone hold onto that much animosity over a situation which wasn't even a real situation. It was just the only thing she can say is I was rude to her and I was rude to her. If someone calls me and accuses me of wanting to do something that I don't want to do, I'll be like, excuse me, if I wanted to, I could. And that's just me being a bitch. It's not real. It's nothing like that. But she really wanted to just kind of ruin me. And she found the perfect troll to do it with. Who is the troll? He was some weirdo that does, you know, those Jim people that try and insult everybody and be like, oh, this person's got an edit. This person who's whole Instagram is attacking people. And the guy, the guy behind this even gave evidence on court that he spoke to the troll and spoke to him. And he showed a video of their interview because the troll is like, I've interviewed the man. I know everything. He showed the interview to court. And in the interview, he specifically said, there was no affair. I was never married. I was never engaged and I was never with Sadiq. And he presented that in court. And that guy will still never release that video because he'll always say, I've got an interview with the married man, but he'll never release it or show who the married man is. Because if you check it, you can see he scrolled back down to 2020, 2021. He's never been married, never been engaged. There's been no girlfriend. It's never happened. He's even got videos of him talking about being single life and being online dating and stuff like that in the timeframe that this troll guy said it was married. Can you believe that? That's the real story. That's the real story. That's the real story. How come you haven't talked about that? I've tried, but the problem is it doesn't go viral. I'll talk about it, but no one cares. So what will happen is I try and talk about it almost in every interview, but it just that bit just doesn't go viral. It just doesn't go anywhere, unfortunately. Because people who want to believe the negative don't care about the clarity. So it's not the same interest. So the people that would have made it go viral, those people are not interested in this. And the people who didn't make it go viral and didn't care about that also don't care about the clarification that much. They would have still been watching you with or without this nonsense. Like me, I don't care. Like, even me, who I actually liked your stuff and liked you, I was kind of listening to the rumblings that always happened, but I didn't care enough. Yeah. And then you wouldn't care enough to post the truth because you don't care either way. I don't care either way. I don't know if that's, but I didn't care either way. I care now. We can try to make a clip and let this go viral. But now you're saying that like, you're right, like it's a confirmation bias, right? The trolls that make it go viral would never make the truth go viral because that's not the interest. And the people who don't make the nonsense go viral will never make the truth go viral, not because they're anti it, but they're just not interested in gossip. They don't care. Yeah. Gossip doesn't mean that much to them. And I have that same problem like gossip doesn't mean anything. I'm not going to share gossip or the clarification. Yeah. Like even as you're talking about it, I'm like, okay, it's horrible, but like you're right. Like if people don't, if people are not caring, they're not going to care about this. Yeah. Whereas trolls care. Yeah, I'm screwed. Nobody will. Yeah. Because trolls really care about defaming. So they don't care about the clarification. So the troll kind of, that's why you get these kind of fitness influence and they bully people online and be like, oh, this is, and they pretend to be heroes. But they make the things go viral, but they don't make the clarifications ever go viral because the army behind it is a bunch of toxic people that don't care about that. You just said it. Yeah. The toxic people. The toxic people, the trolls and all of that stuff that take so much glory in this. And I can totally understand because it's such a great story. It's the girl that talks all about cheating and all about how you shouldn't cheat and all about monogamy and relationships. It's a great, great story. It's a great calm down. And if I wasn't watching, if I wasn't me, I'd be like, oh my God, you couldn't make this up. But unfortunately, it just wasn't the truth. And when you did, and then they say, but you should take accountability. I was like, why didn't you do that for a while? By the way, what I can't believe is how many years ago this whole thing even happened. Yeah, apparently six years ago. And so when did this whole thing go viral like seven months ago? Yeah, six, seven months ago. Yeah. So, okay, so what has happened to your life in the last six or seven months? It's been difficult because the thing is, regardless of whether it's true or not, you don't want parents hearing you speak that way. You don't want anybody hearing you speak now. Because it's like, you know, me and my real world, I do swear, I do shout, I do do all of these things. But I'm from a very conservative family. So that's just not how we talk. Like that's just not what we say. And also, there's no convincing the trolls. And they're the ones that will attack you the most. So it was so much like all day, every day emails, messages. And what hurt me the most and made me kind of lose my faith in my work is, I would get, especially men, be like, you helped save my life, you helped save my marriage, but now you're just a whore. And I was like, I helped save your life and you're worried about what I did 10 years ago, which I didn't even do. But even if I did, let's say, by the way, even if I did, let's say even if I did have an affair with a married man, whatever it is, you guys saying that I helped you so much, you must have been a victim of a girl that was cheating on you. So you, this happens in the real world, whatever it is. I found it, I understood women being that way because even with the cold play, do you remember that cold play? Yes, of course, I remember that. I couldn't believe how viral that went. I was like, in most offices, these things happen. You know, it's not the same thing. I've never read it. I'm glad that you just brought that up. Yeah, I thought the same thing. Like, I couldn't believe like how viral it went and how that woman became like such. She became like ostracized from the world. From the world. And the worst thing is she was separated at the time. She was separated. She was separated and her husband was at the concert at the same time. And the world, she was just absolutely hated. Hated. Hated. And I was just like, but you've forgiven your crusty husband that cheats on you all the time. You've forgiven so many people. You've ruined her life. Yeah, it ruined her life. I hope she can recover from it. But she would say even in public people would attack her. And I just remember thinking, but you've got kids. Why are you guys all sharing it? Why are celebrities sharing it? Why is it becoming a meme? Like, that's just not nice at all. I feel like people get a lot of joy of other people. It's called shot and froid. Yeah. Have you heard of shot and froid? No. Shot and froid is when people find pleasure in other people's misery. And what kind of people do that? I mean, it wasn't specific on it. But it's overall, shot and froid is like a very well-known term. And it's about like how people find like regular people, human nature, is when people find joy in other people's misery. One thing I find a bit confusing is with the social media world, we've normalized all the footsteps towards cheating. But cheating is seen as the biggest thing in the world. So when everybody was sharing that thing in court, court play, I was like, yeah, but you've got people watching. Poor No Davey, there's only fans who are now available everywhere. People are watching and doing things. There's Sigtinder available. There's even websites where you can meet other married men. Why have we normalized everything else? But then then all of a sudden we act like we're so holy. It's only when it crosses the line you act so holy. But all the other systems are in place to create that kind of environment. So I just felt like, I got 10% of what she got, because at least I sign up to be online. So I sign up for this. So I've got a little bit of thickness from the years of doing. But she's just a regular person. He's a regular man with their regular children. Having this overnight, I can't imagine what she went through. And also, again, I guess I'm always in the weeds of like, why do people care enough to even put themselves in a situation to share it or talk about it? Like, if it's not happening to me in my life, I'm like moving on already. You know what I mean? And they're clipping and making so many videos on it. So happy about it. And I think it was more their happiness that really scared me. And I think that more so than anything in the actual backlash. I didn't know people with that much venom existed, because I'm not capable. Even though what she's done to me, I wouldn't be capable of like attacking her the way she did to me when I've done nothing to her. Not one thing. I didn't sleep with her husband, didn't sleep with her fiance, didn't sleep with her boyfriend, didn't touch anything of her, but just had that one conversation she didn't like. And she seized that opportunity to just kind of destroy me. She must have been watching me from afar, building all this resentment and hatred and then just doing something like that. And then cowardly deactivating all her socials. Oh, she did? Yeah, straight away. You won't find on any social now. She used to have socials all deactivated if you're innocent. And the other thing I would say is that there was a witch hunt at that time against me. If it was true, wouldn't the real husband or wife at some point emerge? Because even with the Coldplay concert, they found his wife. Yeah, yeah. They've never found the wife and never found the husband. I've given you her name. She's never come up. She's said, why is it that that's not being come? Because it's not true, unfortunately for the trolls. It's not true. And the troll that released it will never release the actual interview with the husband because the husband wasn't a real husband. He was not married, wasn't engaged. And he testified that in court and actually sent the video of him telling him there was no affair. This didn't happen. I was never married or engaged and I was never with her, but he won't release it, unfortunately. Wow. Yeah. But that's how they make their money and their clips. So I understand. So this is the problem that they call cancel culture, though. Yeah, it works. It truly does have a huge impact. I was on such a trajectory, life was going so well. And like I would have these live events and followers on Instagram were always increasing, the views were always great, and it just stops. And it stops overnight. It literally just stops. So it does work. But why would people not consume your content if it's still good content? They think that you're a fraud. Yeah, that's really why it's like, I think Jordan Peterson's experienced it as well. If he says an opinion people don't like, even though he's so talented, they'll just completely disregard him. So it does happen. Has he been canceled, too? I don't think he has. But yeah, I don't think he'll ever be fully canceled because he's too valuable to be fully canceled. But they'll try. They'll try. And so. I mean, there's been a lot of other people that I've known who've done way worse things than a sentence that wasn't even accurate six years ago. And they're not canceled. They're not. But the problem is trolls are so loud. And so I think it's on a general space, like people that you work with or, you know, clients, they have no problem, but trolls are loud. So if they want to post a video, like even you will get, oh, my God, Jen, how can you work? And it will start. The comments will be loud. So as a content creator, you have to protect that. And I completely understand why if someone like he was like, sorry, I'm really sorry, I don't want to post this or something. I know you're very brave, but I could understand why the average person would be anxious to be associated. I completely understand. Right. Yeah. What? Okay, so I mean, you're not, but how do you get it back? Or is there any coming back? We'll have to ask you. Yeah, I mean, how do you know the expert? I mean, I'm just also flabbergasted at the level and intensity of what you're dealing with. Yeah. And for me, it's more the hatred from people that you don't know. Like if you know someone, you've hurt them, you've done something to them, I totally understand. But when it's that person and also the troll online who I don't know, never seen him before in my life, had never seen or known anything about him, for them to work together to take down somebody that they don't know, all, they don't get paid for this. They don't even get money out of this. 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Is to try and do as many podcasts as possible and do a bit of press. And I hope, like, Elik, it's one of those books that's not for everybody, because it is tough. It's that tough kind of advice. But I'm hoping when they read the book, it's like, OK, you know what, regardless of who, what, where. I think it's a great relationship book, guys. If you really want the real facts and the truth of, like, actually, the real meat on the bone, so to speak. I think it's, I think in terms of relationship books, it's fantastic. I have more questions for you, though. Please, yeah. OK, this is a good segue into women empowerment, right? Or like women on women, like women to women, not women on women. My belief is that women empowerment is a lie. I think that personally, women are only empowering other women when they don't feel threatened by the women, other women. And once they do feel threatened, it's a whole different power dynamic. I know you also feel the same way. I do. And so can we talk about that? Because I want you, you've had some experience a little bit. Yeah, a lot. A lot. What is going on with that? And why has it become like this is another huge, very trendy social media thing where it's like, oh, women love women, women love women for women. Unless you are, unless I see you as a competitor. Yeah. Then maybe not so much. They don't like each other. And it's OK, by the way. We're not actually designed like, we're not actually designed to like every woman on the planet. Right. But I also see this woman on woman as no different to being like a racist or anything like that. Why would I side with somebody more because they have one similarity to me? That's not how my brain functions. I mean, women supporting women. I'm like, no, I'm going to support who I believe in and who I like. Yeah. And who I am aligned with. Not just because they both, we both have like boobs. Yeah. A vagina. And a vagina. It doesn't make any sense to me. That would be the same mindset as a racist to me, like somebody who's just going to take the side of someone because it's the same racism. I see it as just right and wrong. Whoever's right and whoever's wrong. And because women were not used to that, they saw me as the epitome of a pick me. But I just think, but in my personal experience in life, and particularly when this thing happens. What's a pick me? I know what it is, but just show people because my kid told me what a pick me is. Tell me what a pick me is. It's a girl that wants female approval at the expense of female approval. That's what they see it as. Like you're stabbing women in the back to get male approval. But the reality, and I see this so many with female friendships as well, that you, they're not happy for each other all the time. They're not that kind to each other. Even sometimes like I'll go on social media. And if I see a woman who's really conventionally attractive, there'll be very little kind of women empowering her. But if she's not conventionally attractive, so many comments being supportive of her supportive, and they're trying, it's actually a way of just inflating your people that you're not threatened by and deflating people that you are threatened by. It's okay to be equal in life, whether it's man, woman, whatever it is. And in the workplace, I really found it. I always found like when I would go for a job interview, and it was just women or when the working environment was just women, there was a lot of bullying going on. I found that having men in the, led to a little bit more of my career progressing. So when I used to hear these feminist movements saying, men earn more than us and there's so much patriarchy at work. I was like, but at work, I found women stopped me from progressing. In particular women stopped me from my progression. No where more do I see women hate women than the workplace. They hate seeing other women succeed. They hate seeing other women be glorified in any way. So I just found that this whole idea that men oppress women to just not be true. My personal oppression has always come from women. So it's just not something I could have related to. So that's why I just never connected to that movement. And I don't think it's actually in any way shape or form true. I don't find any truth to this idea that men oppress women. I just think people oppress each other. And the more you have, the more jealous, I think jealousy oppresses people. When people are jealous or threatened or anything like that, that's where the oppression kicks in. But without that, people don't... it's not gender specific. It's not gender specific. That's how I would say it. Like I love women and or men equally, depending based on a basically how they treat me. Do you know, honest to God, like, you talk about this in the book too, like, do you... like this is a big thing for like knowing your own self-esteem in a way, right? Like, do you like people who like you? Simple as that. And I'm always like, yes, if you like me, I'd like you 10 times more. Simple as that. It doesn't have to be anything else. And even like when I experienced this thing online, the fact that I got so much hate from women and not them saying, oh, well, she wasn't the married one. Who's the married man? Let's go find him. Let's do a witch hunt on him. The fact that you were expecting me to I'm the person, why is your focus not on the man? Why aren't you witch hunting to find the man? Because he's the one that cheated. But you're the... you should know, no, no, let's focus on the man. If you were truly a girl's girl, you'd be like, well, it's... Where's the man? He's the one that did the vows. He's the one that's committed. He's the one that betrayed someone. Let's find him. But you're so happy to blame the woman. So it's not true. Essentially, the sooner you realize in life that it's not true, the happier you'll be because you'll have... And I really think it's important for women, so, so important to have male friends in your life. I really think as a woman, you will gain so much from having friends in your life that you know for sure, yes, okay, fine. They might be attracted to you or they might hit on you or whatever. So isn't it better to have a friend that secretly loves you than a friend that secretly hates you? Yeah, that's what I always say. By the way, again, preach, preach, preach, okay. I have a lot... I'm notorious for this. I have a lot of male friends. A lot. You do too. Yeah, yeah. And it's not because I don't like women, but I feel like energetically wise, I get along with men. And I don't think... I do believe that men and women can be friends. I really do because I have great friends. Yeah, and they're not hitting on me. They're not trying anything on me. They're going out. Whatever it is, I find it's the people who have a low self-esteem who can handle it well. Absolutely. I think the reason I've always had guy friends is we... I associate with people who have options. They don't become friends with me and they go, I want to sleep with Sardia for 10 years straight. They don't care about Sardia. They've got another girl and another girl. They have options. I don't be friends with people with low self-esteem and low alternatives. That's all it is. Van a woman. So because my friends have so many options, they're on the least of their priorities. They're not thinking and dreaming of me. It's easy for me to have male friends. And also, I just find the energy that they bring. I never have to worry that they're going to be... Backstabbing. ...backstabbing threatened or don't want to invite me places or anything like that. And if they do ever give me that energy, I treat them the same way I would a woman and just let it go and end the story. Everything you're saying is so true though. Like the women... I mean, I have a lot of... I've got... I wouldn't say a lot, to be honest. I would say I have a good handful of really good quality women friends. Mm-hmm. And they're like my ride or dies, but I don't have a ton. Me too. I don't have a ton. The main traits I have with the female friends I have is they're happy women. They're genuinely happy with who they are. Right, and they have things going on in their lives. They're not competitive. But what I would say for... If you... One thing I would say that they always see it as a pick me if you have a lot of male friends. My personal experience of being a woman that has friends, male friends, compared to women that don't, is we are so much less boy crazy. Like I have such a masculine energy in my life that I can... If I had to be single for 10 years, I'd be single. It wouldn't kill me. Or if I meet a new man, I'm like, oh my God, he's a man. There's not this over excitement. Yeah. Because I speak to men every single day. Me too. I speak to men every single day. About so many areas of their life. So if a man is talking to me, I have zero different excitement. Whereas if you speak to girls who don't have any male friends and don't have men and energy in their life, the moment they speak to a man, they're attached. It's just the fact that a man is giving them a bit of attention. But when you have male friends who love you and check in on you and stuff, you can neutralize and select. Whereas when you don't have male friends, you just stick to whoever gives you a bit of attention. I actually think it's not good for you to not have any male friends whatsoever. That's a very good point. What about people though who have relationships and they don't like you being friend with men? And there's ways to handle that. And I think that when you have, for example, with my partner and stuff, it's always so much transparency. There's always like the phone is on speaker, my friends are your friends. I don't have these hidden friendships or anything like that. When you are somebody who's genuinely friends with men, you can manage that, how your husband or partner feels about it, because your intentions are clean. When you're somebody who's not used to male friends, you don't know how to handle that because you might have intentions that are not clean and your partner can pick up on it. So I think it's general, if they're making assumptions, they might just be insecure. But there are ways to make people feel more secure. Introducing them, talking openly in front of them. There's ways to make your partner feel a lot more secure. And if it really bothers them, then yes, of course, you might have to sacrifice a few. Because I've lost male friends because of that. Their partner didn't feel comfortable. But I completely understand. I'm not going to be mad at them because people used to say to me, oh, you're going to have male friends that are going to leave you when they get married. But I'm happy for them. If they're married and they're in a good relationship and she doesn't feel comfortable, no problem. I don't expect a forever friendship, but I just like the fact that when we are friends, he's nice to me, he's not competitive, he's not jealous. It's a nice connection. Yes. I mean, it's amazing to me when, you know, it's like a very few and far between when I do meet a woman who I really like and who's like not envious or jealous or threatened or any of the things or, I mean, I'm not saying it because I think I'm so great or anything that. It's not about my energy. It's about them. And what it always boils down to is how they perceive themselves. And how and what's going on in their life. It's never about the other person. You don't have to be amazing for someone to be jealous of you. Yeah, you'd be terrible actually. You could be terrible. Because sometimes you wouldn't have a client and she'll have like a friend of hers that she's deeply jealous of. And it'll be a simple thing like she might have just gone to a restaurant that's near her house and she's like, and that will bother her for a really long time. So you don't have to have anything special about you to evoke jealousy out of women. But it's so easy to evoke jealousy out of some people. And unfortunately, that's why I try and have balanced like even when I, you know, people always say, oh, you always talk to men or noise. And I was like, but I like even my followers are equal men and women. It's 50% men, 50% women. I don't want an all female following. If I see a contact creator with an entirely female following, I know for a fact she's not being honest. She's being, she's coating, sugarcoating what she's saying. She's tiptoeing. She's probably lying to them, telling them men are trash and she's polarizing them. She's feeding them something that's not good for them. But if you have an equal following, you're probably more balanced as a person. And I find to stay on this whole trends right now, I find that to be something I'm seeing a lot of women who are bashing men at a very high level, at a very high pace right now. It's faster than it was. Yeah. And, you know, that's become very trendy. And also like women relationships with women, like best friends together, women, women, like there's like this whole idea or this like, you know, like the antithesis of men, like women being, you know, women friendships are more important, the romantic relationships are like men are not great and, but what's happened a little bit in the backlash, I've seen some of these women who are like really kind of at the center of this, then they found a guy and they're like, and they're like nowhere to be found. Actually, in my experience is that the more a woman hates a man, the more boy crazy she truly is. Because what that really means is the, those women that really hate men and think negatively of men, the moment they meet a normal guy who's just normal, they think, oh, he's so different. He's so amazing. He's so much nicer than what I thought. Whereas if you think men are no normal, you meet a normal guy, he's normal. Like it's, he doesn't stand out to you. So these girls that hate men, the moment they get attention from a man, he's had everything. He, they don't do the vetting process. When you are good friends with men, you, a man being nice to you is not so out of the blue. A man just being a, somebody you enjoy the company of is not so out of the blue. But if you're so used to just being around girls and you have one nice date with a guy, you don't realize that this is normal. That's how men are. They're nice. They're funny to talk to. They're easy. They put that man on a pedestal and immediately attached to them. So the more they claim to be a girl's girl and decent to men, the more they truly haven't decented men and they're really, really, and you'll see that they immediately get pregnant by a man, they immediately get married to a man. The moment a man asks, they're willing to do it. Whereas if you have men in your life all the time, a man being just a man who's nice to you isn't really enough. You need to actually have compatibility, you need to have time, you have to, it takes more for them to impress you. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Another one of your red flag questions, okay, so another one you should ask is the body count. Yes. Of how many people? So are you saying that the amount of people that the women sleep with versus the men sleep with can really make or break the relationship? It's worse for men and they don't realize this. Okay, totally. And men with a high body count is far worse for you than it is for a woman. And the reason I say this is because there's all this talk online, women pair-bond with who they have sex with blah, blah, blah, this, that, and the other, which is true. I'm not denying that. But here's the switch. Men, women, they only care about sex till a certain stage in a relationship and a certain age in their life. And then they can take it or leave it. That this is just how women are designed. They can, especially when they're madly in love with a guy and they've been with him for many years, they don't crave sex all day, every day. Men crave sex for the rest of their life. That's just how they design. They'll be 80 years old and still wanting sex. So when a man sleeps around a lot, what happens is he gets used to novelty so, so much. And the other thing that he gets used to is women with experience. He can't be compatible with a woman who's traditional, who's only done a bit of love-making, who's not so adventurous. He gets used to certain amount of certain type of sex. Once he gets used to that certain type of sex, he almost can't reverse backwards. He can't go back to regular love-making. He can't go back to, if you knew what men's desires were, and I think this is where, if you interview an only fan's girl, it would be really interesting. It's so perverse. It's so, it's really disgusting. There's very few women that go really far in their sexual fantasies. Men go really far in those sexual fantasies and they can, the more they sleep around. Then the only women they become compatible with are sadistic kind of women. It takes a certain type of woman to match that kind of man's sexual desires. And usually those women are super narcissistic, they're super detached, they're a little bit like, they're using him, they're not the regular healthy woman. Whereas women who might have slept around a lot, if they're over that stage in their life and they're with a regular guy, they're okay with that. They're actually fine with that. They're like, if you never want to have sex again, perfect, me too. I've had so much, I don't want it again. For a man, if he's used to that, that's all he'll ever want and that's all he'll ever become compatible with. And the other reason it's so dangerous for them is women get to choose children. They don't get to choose that so much. We decide if we take precautions, we decide if we have an abortion, we decide all of that stuff. You don't really decide that. So we decide if you become a father, you don't always decide that. So you're taking far more of a risk when you get so used to short-term relationships, so used to promiscuous kind of women, so used to women that are a different kind of woman than the regular traditional woman who wants to get married and have kids in that kind of way. That you're going to be compatible with a woman that you're not going to be able to have a household with. And that's why you can't really reverse that desire, whereas women who've had a high body count, you'll see it all the time with these OnlyFans girls, they go find Jesus and the next day they're married and engaged and they're cooking in their house with their dog. Whereas you speak to a man who's slept with lots and lots of girls, his desires get worse and worse and worse. They get insidious over time. And he or he might settle down with a woman, but his erection won't work, his arousal won't work. It's literally, it slows down in them. So many women have been with men that slept with so many girls over the years that the engagement and arousal is affected. Really? Yeah, they're taking Viagra at like 27 years old because it's been so affected by oversaturation. Really? And novelty. So they can't get it, they can't get the arousal because they need novelty and excitement to get the arousal now. So you'll see guys as young as 27 years old, 26 years old taking Viagra. A young boy taking Viagra because they've either slept with too many women or watched too much porn and their body just can't react to the same woman again and again. They need, so they have to take something. Think about what that does to your sexual confidence if you're a young man and you can't get an arousal. So it's so dangerous for men and this idea that it makes you masculine, makes it the best way to be good, intimately as a man, is to have a good healthy relationship with a woman who gives you feedback, gives you constant feedback and you know exactly how our body works and chances are it will be the same for every woman. It's pretty similar. That love, make it whatever it is. But if you are a guy that goes from one girl to another to another, gets no feedback, firstly, you're not going to be good at sex. Secondly, your arousal is going to be affected and women don't like men that have to rely on Viagra who really need a lot of stimulation to get it. Women hate that. They feel so unattractive with a man like that. Whereas if you're a guy that's strong, ready, like knows what he's doing, they feel super attractive. So you kill your sexual confidence when you kill your arousal mechanisms and that really gets destroyed by too much novelty. Wow. Yeah. So it's actually better to have a less body count, then. It's better to have a... Look, I'm not saying don't have sex. No, but... It's about... Do it, no problem. Do what you want. But in the confines of a relationship, you'll get far more experience than this one-night-stand methodology that people use. I'm not saying it's good for women. I'm not in any way implying it's good for women. But what I am implying is that the world we live in, is we don't live in this world where this woman is going to have this peer bond, it's going to be broken. There are so many men that will meet this girl who slept with so many men, see all her sexual skills and fall in love with her because of that alone. Men fall in love with that. They'll deny it and say, no, no, no, that's just for a short term. Ask any man who's had the most choke hold over him. It will be the girl that he had the best sex with. She might be a bitch to him. You'll look at these guys that are getting treated so badly by a woman. You're like, why are you with her? And it's usually they like the intimacy. So intimacy means it gets men gripped whether they like it or not. And if you're getting used to that kind of girl, she's going to have you on a choke hold. Whereas for women, it's like, okay, fine, he might not be the best, but he's got a nice dog. He's got a nice house. It's okay. So they'll compromise on that area. Men, they struggle to compromise because even if they mentally compromise, their body can't. No, I think that's actually another, again, like, again, I should have a recording here. Yes, yes, yes. Because it's true. Like the men that I know who are just, they can't leave a bad relationship. It's because of that. It's always. It's not because it's like a... A trauma bond. Yeah, it's like because they're so addicted to them sexually. Every guy that you know is in a toxic relationship can't let a girl know, go even though she's bad, him abuses him, cheats on him. It's the sex that's got them addicted to it. So if you're saying that women with high body can't get a count, can't get a man, yes, she can. Because she can get you addicted far faster than a traditional woman that makes you wait, doesn't know the skills, doesn't know what you were like, that girl can't get you addicted. Whereas that girl who's been with 100 guys in a night and filmed it on OnlyFans, she can get you addicted like that. 100%. Yeah, and then she'll get baptized and they get married. Exactly. I love that. But isn't women cheat more than men? They do. And I don't think they realize it. Not with all men. There are some men that prolific cheaters and they always end up with women that are a little bit faithful. But the reason why a lot of women cheat is because I was, again, when I wrote this, when I first became a therapist, I thought for a woman to cheat, the man has to be the worst man in the world. She was left with no choice. And poor girl, how did she get there? Because that's kind of the zeitgeist. People make you feel like she's a victim when she's a cheater. She must have been so neglected. That's never what I found. What I found is that it's the women with men that are so submissive, that are so people pleasing, that are so lacking masculinity, that they're not dominant. And because he's not dominant, she's not attracted anymore. And therefore, and they also know unconsciously, he's a type of guy, if I did cheat, he'd stay. Like there's an unconscious like he would stay. So it's those types of men that get cheated on so much. And because we're creating a culture of submissive men, women as a, like kind of as an itch, you're getting them cheating more. But if you go to cultures where the men are super, super masculine and super super strong, the women in those cultures don't cheat. It's only where the men are so weak and they're so feminine and they're so emotional. And you know, all those skills might be nice outside of the bedroom, but they don't translate into the bedroom. So the woman doesn't feel feminine around him and therefore she doesn't feel sexy. And so those women, it's not this big emotional hole. A lot of the time he's very emotionally there for her. It's this dominance hole. He's not dominant. How about women who are dominant? Like in terms of women who have masculinity because they're strong personalities, like give a strong personality, other strong personality. Would that be considered very masculine? I think I'm masculine without realizing it. And I think I hide it well because I look feminine. You look very feminine. Like yourself, but I think I have a lot of masculine energy. Now the cure to that is you have to be with a man that's also masculine. The way I kind of save myself is I'm still quite very nurturing. And I still have that nurturing element to me. But if I didn't have that nurturing element, and that comes from like culture and background and all that stuff. But if I didn't have that nurturing element, I definitely bulldoze over every guy. But I'm very, very nurturing and like, you know, very traditional in terms of like, I don't mind cooking, cleaning. That doesn't bother me in any way, shape or form. But women that are super masculine and very non nurturing, they attract very feminine men. They attract really kind of passive men. So the more like, you know, because this kind of culture is teaching women to be as masculine as possible. No problem. You can be that girl that says, fuck you, I'm not cooking, I'm not cleaning, I'm not looking after you, I'm not having kids. I'm not doing anything and you should just listen to me. No problem. You can be that girl, but you're going to attract a very weak man. No strong loving masculine man is going to like that. So you have to realize that in the process of becoming overly strong and non-nurturing, you're going to attract a more weaker man and he'll be submissive and accept it, but will you truly be attracted to him in the long run? Yeah. So just bear that in mind. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I think this is for people who are very strong personalities. Yeah. You know, I'm a strong personality too, but I think I'm very like nurturing also. So it kind of counterbalances the- And you always wanted kids. You always liked kids. So once you- I never really, you know what, I never was that person who was like, oh, I must have two kids and a white pick of fence and all the things. But I also knew that if I didn't have kids, I would probably regret it in my life. And so I didn't want to be an old mom and all the things. So I kind of am traditional that way. I grew up very traditionally. I wouldn't, I couldn't imagine myself not having kids. And how do you manage the work life balance? I know that's a big discussion. I don't believe in work right now. Yeah. I think that's also a big load of nonsense. I think that there's no such thing. I think in certain like cycles of your life, you are really very myopic in what you're doing and like there's times. Sometimes I'm like super dialed into work. And then other times that they'd be more dialed into, like when I was, when my kids were really, really small, I had to like dial back my career a lot because I wanted to be available around. And then, you know, not that soon after, like I didn't wait that long, but I went back. I mean, it's very, very hard. And do you, are you happy as a working mom or does that make you happy? Or would you like to just be a mom at some stage? What makes you happy? No, no, no, no, no. Like I think that I was, I was born. My DNA doesn't allow me to slow down or stop. Like that's just not who I am. Like I was just having this conversation with someone before you came here today on another podcast is that I was, I'm built to be super, I'm super driven and ambitious on a bad day. Like on, like I can't slow down even in my head. So even if I wanted to, I don't have the wherewithal. Yeah. Like since I was like six, I was extremely tenacious. I was extremely like ambitious. I was extremely curious. Curiosity has like been like the gateway drug for everything for me because I want to know everything. I want to know everything about you. And it comes from like a genuine place. So like I'm all, I get super into something and I like want to see it through and follow through. And I like, I like the thrill of the chase. So it wouldn't work for you? No, it wouldn't work for me. And you wouldn't be as good of, are you a better mom when you're happier? Oh, well, 100% I mean, it doesn't work. I mean, like I don't know what to do with myself if I don't have 97 plates in the air. Like when I don't have that much going on, I actually see my serotonin. Like I get depressed. Yeah. Like I need to have, and then I complain that I have too much going on. But then if I don't have enough going on, then I'm also don't like it. But it's human nature. We're designed to be busy and problem solving. And if we're not, it's just, and I know it sounds a bit judgmental, but the people that don't problem solve enough, they look for problems. And that's why I always say that. So you don't have enough going on. If you're like, people like what happened to you, if that girl had enough going on in her life, she would be too busy to be preoccupied with what, with ruining you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's just too. If you have a busy life, literally what people say and do doesn't affect you. Exactly. Yeah. So that's why it's so important to be, have some kind of purpose. I don't know it's hard because even when I've slowed down with the cancellation and stuff, I'm finding it like really difficult. It's very difficult. It's very difficult. It's just not who you are. And I don't respect myself when I'm just scrolling and doing nonsense. Don't do that. Yeah, it's the worst thing. That's the thing. Like I don't believe in balance. Yeah. I think that's like a load of shit. I also think that when you asked me earlier, you're like, oh, you know, about you coming on here, blah, blah, blah, and what people are going to say and think and whatever. If you like, like you said, I'm too busy to be worrying about what this person says. And that person's like, I'm just going to be me and do me. And whoever likes it great and if they don't, that's good too. They'll find their tribe and people. Yeah, because even when I see some videos about me, they're like 45 minutes long. And I'm like, 45 minutes? I can't even, I don't have so many views. And I'm like, I'm just watching it. I'm like, who's watching it? You know what, because people like, this is the thing when people are, when they don't have enough shit in their life, they get joy out of looking at someone's demise. And that's what my point is. I say that's shocking for you. It's so strange, isn't it? You asked me earlier, what kind of person is that? Is people who don't, who are, who have low self-esteem, who don't have, they don't, they don't either have enough, or they don't have enough going on in their life or a combination of both. But like, honestly, people I know, they're too busy. They're too busy because even when I was on the plane here and I was watching all these real house, I was like, oh, finally I get to watch all this nonsense. But I don't get to watch it in my real life because I feel almost a guilt of watching nonsense. Yeah, I get, I don't watch those shows. I can't watch it in the real world because I'm like, I can't sit here as a grown woman watching love. Like, I'm a grown woman. Yeah, I can't do that. I won't watch those shows. I won't watch it. But when I was in the plane and stuck, I was like, oh, let me just put on some reality now because I feel a guilt when I watch nonsense. I feel like you could be doing so much better. So then that's just reality, which is harmless. Imagine watching gossip all day, what that must do to your brain. Exactly. I find like there's a time and place to have like that like gossipy TV. It can like, it turns your brain off and all the other things. But like, I don't like it myself. I don't find that to be valuable a good way of spending my time. I'd rather get a massage. I'd rather like go in my sauna. I'd rather listen to a TED talk. I would rather do something that's something a little better. This is why like your podcast and teaching people to be successful is so important. Because one thing I would say before I was online, my job was I was teaching psychology in colleges and we were paid like $3,000 a month. That's what teachers get paid. And that's what all of us were. So we had so much time to be bored and we'd have this mentality that successful people are mean, successful people are bad. When I started working with more and more successful people, the main thing I find with them is they lack jealousy. They're almost incapable of it. Anything that they do, I'm like, they do not have a, they don't have jealousy in them. And because they'll see you succeeding and they're like, oh yeah, take this. Oh, by the way, I know somebody who can do this and there's somebody in that agency and they see helping people is so normal and they don't see it. They're just, there's not many people they're jealous of. Whereas when you are around people of low, that's why I think income is really important. When you're around low income people, they're jealous of everybody. Well, that's what happens. I think you are a combination of the five people around you the most, right? So that's why it's very important to pick your people. Yeah. Very, that's very, like pick the people who surround you. But I also think to your point, when you're like a successful person in any realm, I think again, it becomes about time. I don't have time to sit here and be jealous of you. Also, if someone has what I want, like if I really like what you have, I would rather, I'm so curious, I'd rather find out how you got it and then do those things to get it. Because again, it's like the growth, it's like, it's either you're going to be that, what's that called? And it's either like that mindset, not fixed mindset, it's not about a mindset. It's actually about like, you can either have the mindset of like, there's like this little to be go around or a lot to go around. Abundance, that's the word I was looking for. Thank you. Scarcity or abundance. I'm not about a scarcity. Even like, I've had people here who've been like, even like out in the world, you know, like I was super models or whatever. I'm never jealous. Like I think to myself, great, they have that. Well, I have this, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't, doesn't change my self-esteem. Jealousy is really a symptom of depression because I remember when I was going through the cancellation, I was jealous of people who haven't been canceled. I'm like, oh my God, I wish I could go back in time and I wish and I finally started experiencing jealousy. And what I really experienced is seeing myself and an outer body because I was like, maybe if I did see this random girl come out of nowhere and then automatically she's on all these podcasts and everything's growing for her, maybe I would be the same. But actually now I could finally step back because of the free time and realize I can understand that perspective. So jealousy is a symptom that you're not, you're not fulfilling your potential in life. You take whoever you're jealous of and figure out how they did it rather than just constantly bashing them. Yeah. It's just not good for you. Exactly. So then I wanted to ask you even earlier about the, so who did you marry? What kind of guy is he? He's a good person. That's the main thing I would say. There's flaws in every single man, but one thing I remember standing out with him is, like this work on masculinity, my main issue was finding people that were either so like in awe and they might just be so happy and just be so people pleasing or they're so toxic. They were just so on the other end. There wasn't really hard to find a balance. And I think what I found really respect, what I respected in him is that he liked who he was. That's what it boiled down to. He just liked the man he was. So he liked the decisions he makes. He likes everything. And if you're nice to him, amazing. If you're not nice to him, he can't accept that. And because I was still very insecure and it like all of these types of things in the beginning, I would fight and all this stuff. It was not like this, oh, please be with me no matter what. It was like, but if you're not going to be nice to me, this is not going to work. And when I realized that people who like themselves make you a better person because they make you behave better in order to be in their life, I thought in his influence, I'm always going to stay a nicer, better person. And unfortunately, because he's not on social media, I think if he was, on social media a bit more, he probably could have balanced me out a bit more because I'm still quite reactive and I still can get annoyed and I can do all of these things. Whereas if I kind of followed his lead more, he just doesn't react to anything. And that would have helped me a bit. If I wasn't so reactive and I wasn't like so bullsying, I was a little bit more played the game, maybe I wouldn't attract so much negativity. So I have to take accountability for it. What did you do to attract negativity? You were just being honest. Yeah, I know. What did you do that was negative? I think even when this person was attacking me, I was like cussing him back. I was like, what are you talking about? Like who are you talking about? Oh, you're fighting back. And there's no need because with these people, you can't compete with how low they can go. Whereas you'll have a limit and you'll be like, this is not worth my time. They don't have a limit. That is all they'll do. So it's just a waste of your energy. There was no need to respond or talk or anything or there was just no need. It just makes it worse for you. Yeah, it totally makes it worse. It makes it 100% worse for you. God, I feel so terrible for you. No, it's okay. These things happen. I don't know what God's plan is, but it's not a good one. It's going to have to find its balance because I think it's just... And my only thing is it would be a shame if I didn't come back completely because I think the information is quite important and it's quite helpful. It is. And most people who are giving advice aren't actually working with people daily. So they'll just chat GBT a script and then they'll read the off the script and people are like, oh, yeah, yeah. And it's just like, but that's clearly AI that you're just... Or like the person's just chat GBT, it should just go viral. So I like to learn from people who've like, if they've had a successful business or if they've worked really hard or whatever, I need to know from your experience rather than you just trying to go viral. 100% you're talking from practical experience. Yeah. And that's the only reason I got this knowledge is from working with people. So it would be a shame to not give the information again. I totally agree. Hold on, I've got more questions for you. I'm so sorry I'm boring you. Oh my God, shut up. You're not boring me at all. I think you're actually... I'm going on forever. No, I've got a couple more questions. Okay, the first question I have for you. Let's talk about the one that's very, very popular. Love bombing. Yeah. Is this a real thing? No, but you know me, I say no to everything. Yeah, well, that's what I like. I like to hear the counter argument. It is a thing. If you can fall for somebody who immediately wants to marry you, immediately showering you with gifts, immediately doing all of these things, and you don't stop and think, you don't even know me enough to do all of this. Instead, you think, I met the love of my life. That's something's wrong in you. If somebody came to me and started immediately wanting to marry me, immediately wanting to showering me with gifts, immediately pushing, pushing forward forward, if I had low self-esteem and there's been times in my life where that definitely would work, if I had low self-esteem and I'm not used to attention, I'm dying to be loved, of course, that's going to work on me. But if you're an adult and you are rational, you say, hey, listen, you don't know me enough to be this attached. So when you start being a little bit more secure in yourself and not desperately needing a home, you won't fall for these things. But when you are low self-esteem, and I've been there, and I think lots of people have been there, when you're feeling so low and someone can make you feel good, you're more susceptible to it. So you just have to see love bombing, the same way you see thieves stealing cars. There's going to be thieves everywhere. You just lock your doors, you make sure you're safe. There's going to be guys that will love bomb, the girls that love bomb. You just lock your doors a little bit by saying, hey, like, are you sure you're just not rushing this? Is everything okay? You question the person that's overly attached to you too soon, because they're usually hiding something. When does this happen though, normally? Because sometimes you can convince yourself that it was like, love it for sight, or that you guys just had a really great connection, and it was like the real thing. When is that not the case, and when is it love-bombing? I think it could be confusing. It takes conflict for you to know the difference. People are great in the beginning, but how you handle conflict will let you know if it's actually a connection, or if it was just a facade. So let's say, for example, everything's going great, everything's amazing, you have some like disagreement, and they totally go so, and they disappear. Then you know that it's probably not real. But if it's when you have conflict, and you can still push through it, then chances are you've got a real connection there. So when there's conflict, but I would say be careful of people who are like still hurt from a previous relationship, because they love-bomb the most. People who are just coming out of a relationship, just got out of a marriage, and just got out, they want to maybe get back at an ex, they maybe want to win the competition, so they might take somebody vulnerable, and be like, let's just quickly get married a little, and they accelerate this new person's connection to match the level of attachment they already have to somebody else. They're trying to just balance out. So just be mindful, if a man's just come out of a situation, wants to make somebody jealous, those people can sometimes love-bomb. How long does the love-bomb last? As soon as there's conflict, or if they are using you to get over somebody else, as soon as they're healed from that other situation, they'll disappear from you. But I would say conflict is a big solution, whether it's genuinely they're just attracted to you and love you so much, or if they're love-bombing you. Genuine attraction can happen where it feels like love-bombing. But what the difference will be is when you have conflict, they want to get through it, they take accountability, you come out stronger. But love-bombing is as soon as there's a conflict, they kind of disappear. What about co-dependence? Yeah, co-dependence occurs far more than we realize. It's a lot of it is, if you've never been single, it's very difficult for you to be alone. So your identity comes from that relationship. Now, people with co-dependency, what happens is they go from relationship to relationship, they find it very difficult. And usually where it comes from is they either had just, maybe they lost a parent, didn't have one parent, there wasn't that stability, particularly with fathers. So women that have that co-dependency, maybe their father wasn't around. And what happens is when you do have a father or a male figure in your life, you always feel somewhat safe, like you're all good. But when you don't have a father and then you have to be single, that biological urge from a man comes back. So they end up just going into relationship to relationship and they might adjust their personality to fix that or adjust their identity to fix the new person. And they don't know who they truly want and who they truly are. So co-dependency, the biggest sign is going from relationship to relationship and struggling to be single. And they'll say, oh, I don't know how it happened. But really how it happened is you weren't as, you weren't selective, you would just keep going into relationship to after relationship. Men though too, right? Men a lot. Men a bit more. Men are more co-dependent. Men more. One thing I find is particularly as people age, women can get to 35 onwards. And if they're single, they're actually okay. Men, if they get divorced or if they're separated from a woman, they physically can't be single. They physically can't do it. I think they just stay. I don't know what it is. I think we are very lucky in the sense that as women, you can draw a lot of your happiness from your kids, like so much from your kids. And the affection as well, that hits the spot. And from your family, friends, everything. We've got good connections where we don't feel completely incomplete without a man. Men, there's very few people that they're totally connected to that they'll call on a regular basis. They'll see and just have dinner with their kids. They love their kids. The impact of kissing them and hugging them is not the same as it does to a woman. So I think they draw so much from a wife that a wife doesn't draw just from them. That's so interesting. Yeah, I see that. I see men who are codependent and the more so than the women. Way more. And especially even if you speak to widows, they've got no desire to marry again. Men will literally start itching the moment they can't be with. I don't think they're designed to be without wives. They start to self-destruct. They start to do addictions and bad habits. So you'll meet these men who are perpetually single and you look at their life and it's very chaotic. Or they've got dark secrets. Maybe they're paying for OnlyFans and doing all these. They're doing something. They're doing something. They might look like they've got nothing wrong, but something's dark is going on in their life behind closed doors. How do you know when that's happening? They're single for too long. It doesn't make sense because testosterone is testosterone. You need women. So if they're single for way too long and yet they're not even hooking up or when they do get with a girl, they're not initiating. And they're not... Because one of the signs I talk about in the book is there's a lot of men that don't initiate sex anymore. And they just don't... They deprive their wife of sex and she's always confused. And of course that can be... They might be having an affair, but a lot of the time it's their... There's a darkness, but usually pornography that is making them immune to real sex. So I would say that when a man or single, there's something... It's not good for them. They're either going to become lonely or they're going to become addicted to something. Addiction is the main thing. Our coping mechanism is just... We can go for lunch on Fridays and they're getting the sun and we're like, oh, I'm so good. Like, no problem for them. That means nothing to them. Like going for lunch with their friend is like nothing to them. What they need is sexual or female connection and that's where they go down a quite dark path. That's why I don't recommend it for them. Amazing. What else have I not asked you that I have to ask you? No, you've done great. I feel like I've talked too much. We're talking too much. It's only been what, two hours? Yeah. Okay, that's not that long. I can go for another five hours with this one. I mean, I feel... Hold on, I want to make sure I didn't... I wanted to ask you something. Hold on, hold on. You said one of your questions for the red flag indicators is ask someone if they've always been attractive. Yeah, because look, I find that people get annoyed by this, but I actually think pretty privileged. There is ugly privilege and people don't realize that. Ugly privilege? What's that? And what ugly privilege is, is when you're a beautiful woman or you look after yourself or whatever, automatically people are less sympathetic than you realize. Like, yes, men give you privilege, right? No problem. Men will give you privilege. But there'll be a whole host of men that will be meaner to you because you're attractive. Whereas when you're neutral or you're not attractive, you might not get privileged, but you won't get abused. You'll just be left alone. Whereas pretty girls might get a little bit more pretty privileged from men, but they get a lot of abuse from men. But also, the main thing that happens with pretty girls is they get a lot more abuse from women. Women will automatically assume that she's the culprit. She can't be the victim. Whereas if you take a woman who is less attractive, automatically she's a victim. Automatically she must be innocent. Automatically it can't be her fault. And so, especially with other women, and we as women spend more time with other women, so we actually get less of a privilege than people think. So I would say like, pretty privilege is not as easy as people think. And the other thing I would say is that when a woman is really pretty and she's had a lot of male attention, she tends to be a lot more insecure and then people realize. And her reason for being insecure is she's always noticed that, you know, when she goes to the gym, a guy will start hitting on her. When she asks for business ideas, he'll start turning it sexual. Everything will revolve around that. So she starts to think this is what men are. They're just so overly sexualized. So when she has a husband or boyfriend, she can get nervous when he's got a new assistant or nervous when he's joined a new gym. Or she just starts to project her own experiences onto this guy. So they tend to be a lot more insecure. This is like the halo effect, right? Yeah. Though, but isn't that when you think that people who are physically more attractive, people who are physically more attractive, people assume that they are smarter than they are and their character and morals are better? But I think that only applies to men. I really think that halo effect only applies to women. I think so too. I would imagine if I saw a picture of Pam Landerson, I'm not going to think she's smart and nice. I agree. I think if it's a man who's really attractive. I'm mad, like Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy. Yeah. Lots of other investors I've met are founders who raise a lot of monies because who are good looking. They assume that because they're good looking, successful, that they are more intelligent, that they are better moral grounds, that they're more this, this, this and this. Yeah, I think that it really is psychological. I think it really applies to men. I think the moment you see an attractive man, you think that he gets what he wants in life. And that's a good trait. But I think when you see attractive women, you're like, she gets what she wants in life. She must be a bitch. She must be entitled. So I think it must be a slut. She must be a slut. I always think about what Pamela Anderson's life must have been like for her. Like throughout all those years where there was no Instagram, there was no competition, she was the only idol. I don't believe she could get through life. I can't imagine the amount of abuse she must have suffered from men just trying to be with her. And women just probably not liking her in so many ways. So I think the halo effect applies to men, but I don't think when women see a really beautiful girl, they might be influenced by her. They might want to imitate her. That's why influencers do so well with brand deals and stuff. And they do really great. But I don't think they assume positive things. I think they might assume negative things. I think they'll assume she's vain or arrogant. So I think the halo effect is a little bit more on the men side than it is on the women. Yeah, I think that's actually true. And the brand deals for those girls are usually beauty brands. Beauty brands. Because people are aspirational. Oh, if I use that cream, I'm gonna look like her. I'll look like her. You're not really gonna be taking, you know what I mean? Life advice. Yeah, yeah. And you won't take serious advice. And I think because I wear makeup and I'm always dolled up, it was so difficult for them to take life advice from somebody who looks a bit like a makeup influencer. Yeah. So they were like, we can't trust what she says. It's almost like we can't trust it at all. You can't be both. You can't be both. Whereas I think if they would be like, and this is not in a bad way, but like somebody like Mel Robbins or Esther Parrell, because they look like they've learned a lot and they've experienced a lot, automatically what they say, even if I said the same thing, it wouldn't. It wouldn't land as well. It wouldn't land, yeah. So I think, unfortunately, because I am such a makeup girl, it does kind of reduce your credibility to, I would imagine to both. It's even that much harder to prove yourself. It's that much harder, unfortunately. Well, what can you do? I mean, I think you keep on being beautiful. I keep on talking and not being canceled. Okay, you guys, Saudi's book is called Red Flags. It is so good. And it's what your therapist forgot to tell you. 10 questions for your therapist to ask you if you are going and or if you're in a relationship, you could be asking your partner. It is super valuable. It is so practical. That's what I love about it. So practical. Everything you say is honest and practical, which is why I'm annoyed that this has happened to you in real life. But no, it's amazing. So if you want to find Saudi, well, you can buy the book. But also follow her on Instagram, TikTok and all the things, right? Perfect. Thank you guys so much for having me. This is amazing. I love talking to women. I forget how much I like you. Thank you so much for having me. This is one of my favorite interviews. Really? Yeah, I loved it. Okay, I want to clip that. Okay, it's good. This is one of my, and I've done so many. I know you've done so many. So many. It's so refreshing. So thank you so much for having me. Oh my God, I want you to come back. Of course, of course. Oh my God, please come back. I just want to give back my honor, my absolute honor. I would go on, but I see him like basically like... He's stuck with editing. Yeah, he's like leaving already. He's like getting his car keys. Amazing. All right, I'll see you guys later. Bye.