Episode 526: Liron Kayvan: Smart Strength Training That Builds Results Without Injury or Burnout

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Again, head over to Therasage-thr-as-g-e.com and use code B-Bould for 15% off any of their products. We're back with my friendly run. We're going to talk all things fitness today. Are you ready? I'm ready. All right. I thank you for being here. Thank you. You're very welcome. It's nice to have you. I got some quick questions for you. Ready? Bodyweight exercises versus weights. What do you think is better? Bodyweight has to come first. You have to be good at bodyweight first. There's some situations where you might need to start on weights before the exercise is hard or injuries, etc. But most of the time, you should be proficient in any type of movement, the bodyweight version. For example, push-up versus a bench press. You should be mastering push-ups before you bench, does that make sense? OK, yes. But in terms of building muscle, what is more effective? I think you can, again, like... Could you build muscle with just bodyweight? Absolutely. When I was a teenager, I started doing bodyweight training for two or three years. My body transformed that super, super, super fast. Then when I started to lift weights because I had such a good foundation of movement, correct movement patterns, stabilizer muscles, I know that's kind of a bro science. I don't know exactly. You know what I mean? Like, nobody knows. What's bro science? Stabilizer muscles. What are you talking about? Women talk about stabilizing muscles. No, bro science in terms of like, you know, there's not such a thing as a stabilizer muscle that people really agree on what it is. But essentially, that movement pattern by working your body in a very balanced way that you get from calisthenics, from bodyweight exercises, it sets you up for weightlifting after. I found that people who get good with bodyweight exercises first can put on muscle much faster when they do add weights. Gotcha. That makes sense. But I would say this, I think that when I think of stabilizing muscles, I think about really strengthening your core and your balance, which are super important as you age also. Yeah. Which I think you probably get more of with bodyweight exercises depending on specifically which ones do. But I'd say you get more of that with bodyweight and then you get from free weights after that, free weights and kettlebells and then finally, I think machines. Yeah, machines are really good for people who have a lot of injury actually. Yeah. Yeah, I think machines are very good for that because it just works the muscle that you're supposed to work. And you can also push yourself at a really high level. So if you want to go super, super heavy, safely, machines actually really have their place because say you fail on a machine, what happens? The stack just drops it on the stack. Right, right, right. Not on you. Not on you. Exactly. So by yourself, things like Smith machines and cable machines and stuff like that. So I know you were talking about home gyms or friends of mine when they asked me about home gyms, I'm like, look, machines are actually great. If you can find a machine that does a bunch of different stuff, machines are great for the sake of safety and the ability to really, really push yourself to failure without kind of jeopardizing yourself. Yeah. And also not really like, you don't really need to get form perfect like you do like a back squat versus a leg press. It's just way easier. Yes. Form was. I think that's true. I also think though, what do you think about this actually? Because I know to get stronger and to get results a lot of times is about progressive overload, right? But I also think, as I was going to say, not but and I also think that with age and sometimes with injury, you can't really lift as heavy as maybe you once did. So like I still think that you can still get a really, you can get really good results without killing yourself on like super, super heavy. Yeah. Right? Like as long as you're doing weight training, I find that to be suitable. I think intensity is more important than weight. Weight is an aspect of intensity, but as long as the workout is sufficiently intense. Well, what I, why I say this is because when I've worked out with trainers before, they're pushing me to go such a like such a heavy weight. I just don't my body can't even like do it. And they're like, no, you can do it. You're strong. You're a badass. You can do it. I'm like, I really actually cannot do it. Like my glutes are not firing. I have an injury over here. Like 100% and the reason why I'm bringing this up is I think it's really important to really be discerning a with who you're working out with and knowing your body. Because just because someone's screaming in your face that you can do it, you can do it. And you know, like it's not you being like, it's not you being a weak, weak ass, whatever. Right? It's just that you actually legit cannot do it. And I think that there is like this whole culture now is like lift, lift super, super, super heavy. Now, you're going to lift heavy enough where you can improve like on your own strength, a little by little. But don't kill yourself. I thought that that's not the that's not also the answer. It's great advice. Don't kill yourself. Well, don't get generally speaking. Generally speaking. I think yeah, well, there's just generally speaking. Well, I was going to say, what is your opinion on this like lifting super heavy? No, I agree with you. I mean, the research says anywhere between five and 30 reps is good for high particular three five and 30. No, I heard between eight and 12. Right. So that's the traditional one. That can lend itself to look, this is going to be a very big topic of debate between people. And I'm not giving my personal opinion. I'm saying that the latest research I've seen is you can get muscular gains from five to 30 as high as 30 reps. I'd like to see that research because I have not seen that. I think it's by Andy Galpin. So you can check that out. But again, he says that because if you're doing 30 reps, that's more endurance than anyone else. That's what we traditionally thought. I don't personally, because I find it, again, there's personal preference. There is some personal preference here. I, depending on the day, so I might go as high as, you know, 25 maybe 30 on certain exercises, depending on how I feel, right? Meaning like that would be exciting to me to do 25 reps today. I feel like I want to do 25 reps. So I might push myself up to 25 reps and then maybe I periodize these things. You have to, once you get very good at fit, and you've been doing it along, you learn to listen to your body a little bit more, but there are times where I want to go super, super heavy and I want to do five reps of something and there are times when I want to go higher and there are times where I want to be in the middle. And I've found that varying things, smartly, right? Like in a periodized and structured way, is the best way for me to train because it keeps things fresh and exciting for me. And well, I think what you're talking about is more muscle confusion. So someone like me too who works out a lot, I can do sometimes 20 reps, sometimes 10 reps because I do it so often and I know kind of like I'm just, I'm doing it more because I'm just quite frankly bored and I'll just kind of keep it everyday. I would relabel it muscle excitement, not confusion because confusion like I'm not confused. I know exactly what I'm doing. But what I want is to do something exciting to me. Like I want to enjoy my workouts and I want to train to get better. So a lot of this also comes from the fact that I want to be a very well balanced athlete. So it's not just hypertrophy. I want to be able to play soccer, which is a very high endurance sport. And then I also want to be able to pick up a car if I need to. So you know, I want to be adaptable, right? And I want to be well balanced. So I train the full, the full rep range. My point is, especially also there are different muscle groups that require different rep ranges. So you're generally speaking, generally speaking, your upper body is going to require less reps and your lower body is going to require more reps. Glutes, for example, tend to be on the higher rep range. So they take mostly because they're slow to which muscle fibers. So generally you need more reps with glutes. Again, this is not like just you take this and that's the end of it. Like there is a lot of nuance here. But lower body generally requires higher reps and upper body generally requires lower reps. Not to say that you should never do higher reps for upper and lower. But I think that the general consensus is if you are repping for if you're doing five or six reps, you're doing that for like for strength and not hypertrophy. Right. For strength. And you got to lift really heavy for that. What I'm saying is if you want to, if you're someone who's, you know, in the middle, an intermediate person, I think focusing on between eight to 12, even eight to 15 reps, let's just say one and the last one or two should be like almost a failure. That would be what my guideline would be. Then that's perfectly reasonable. But I don't think that I actually disagree with you that I think that lower body should be higher reps versus upper body that are lower reps. I think you can interchange it. Like sometimes I think sometimes I would do a lot of reps for pushups, for example, or shoulder wrap, whatever it is, right. And then sometimes I'll do heavier, heavier, not to kill myself, but like heavier for 10 to 12 lower body because I think, and then sometimes I'll change it up. I don't think one is necessarily as I said, this is not gospel. That's really like I built when I was, I don't know, we mentioned that on this episode. But when I was first starting, I was a teenager and I only did body weight. So I was doing incline pushups, three sets of 35. And I built a lot of muscle in my chest. Right, because you're not. Three sets of 35. I'm pretty normal. Okay. Just so you know, uh, the roignants was like a, almost like a, you were like a soccer player, like a professional soccer player. I did a little bit of everything. I was, I was quite good at everything. Okay. And he's like, you know, he has really good genes. He has like a 20 pack without even working out. Okay, never mind. Okay. So I'm saying you, you like pumping out like 40 reps of a, of a, of a, of a, of a pushup three times majority of people is not, that's not realistic. Well, again, that was, that was, it wasn't when I, it wasn't the first set I ever did. I built myself up to 35. But my point is I was, my body was transforming throughout that whole process. Gent now, look, if you want my personal opinion, yes, I'm going to hear. Generally, I'm going with the science and I'm also going with, with my experience for myself and for my, maybe thousands of thousands of clients, I have friends, generally speaking, I, I wouldn't, if you want actual hypertrophy, like to see muscular size being added, I generally wouldn't go as far as, as high as 30 reps. I would probably stick to somewhere in the middle of that rep range. Okay. So then what do people gain if they're doing 30 reps of something? Keep it simple. Just what do people get? What's the point of doing 30, 30 reps of a lunch in your opinion? Besides endurance and stamina. I, I, I do think you can build muscle on by, by increasing your reps from 15, 20, 25 up to 30. I probably would stop at 30. And again, if that's something that calls view, if as long as you are increasing your intensity, muscles can grow. Okay. So how are you going to increase your intensity? If you're doing 30 reps, five more reps from 20 to 25 is still more intense. Okay. Where are you going to go from there? Then you're going to do 50 reps again. 100 reps. Like that's a lot of reps. If I'm giving a prescription to people, I would not go beneath five reps. And I would not go above 30 reps. And if you wanted to give yourself an easy, the quick and dirty on this, I would stick to somewhere in the middle. Me personally, I'll tell you, I try to do eight to 12 for upper body and 10 to 15 for lower body. That's how I generally train myself. But there are times when I will go lower for lower body and higher for upper body. So I'm saying, you do want to vary things sufficiently, but I would generally stick to the middle of that rep range. I wouldn't go from either of those extremes. Does that make sense? Makes enough sense, I think. Okay. So eight to 12 is a perfectly good rep range for basically every muscle group. You're going to see some gains. Okay. I understand. Today's episode is powered by AMP. You know those days when you're just done, I mean the meetings, the kids, the to do list and you still want to move your body, but the gym feels a million miles away. That's exactly why I love my AMP. AMP is a smart AI powered strength training device that sits right in your home. It's super sleek. Literally looks like you got it at the Apple store and it also counts your reps. It just your weights for you and you're always training under the perfect amount of tension. So whether you've got 15 minutes or 45 AMP adapts in real time to make every workout simple, effective and completely personal and the app is super cool too. It has hundreds of different workouts, strength, Pilates, mobility, recovery, and it's so easy to use. It's literally been a game changer for me. Like I don't have to plan my workouts or wonder what I'm going to do. I just turn on my AMP and it takes care of the rest. And as a mom and a business owner and a podcast or that convenience means I stay consistent and you know, strength training, especially for women is so key for my hormone balance, longevity and of course confidence. So you can see why I'm obsessed. Go to joinamp.com slash Jen to learn more. That's joinamp.com slash Jen because strength should fit your life. So what about classes like group fitness? Do you think you can get really strong and muscular from doing group classes? Oh, yeah. I have a group class that I teach called build on Monday and Wednesday evenings. Okay. I'll finish. Really? And how does it work? It's a it's fun. Well, it's actually a circuit. Okay. So we'll have five exercises, total body. So that way if somebody misses a class, it's not big deal. You're doing your upper push. You're doing your upper pole. You're doing core. You're doing total body movement and you're doing a lower body exercise. So you got those five exercises. You do three sets, 45 seconds. So they're timed each set without getting into too much complexity of how the class works. But long story short, you're doing total body and we just do it twice a week. And the gains that people have made, the the people who come twice a week is really beyond my expectation. And a lot of that is just the consistency because because there's a group and their cohort and they like each other, they look, they come like every. Right. This is a community thing. Yeah. So again, I think that there's a major thing with people are now staying further away from, well, actually, I should say for like, you know that bars are on the down swing, right? People are not drinking as much and they're, they're actually using like wellness clubs, especially younger people. The younger people, the easier stuff they don't drink. It's well, they don't say like that. Well, those clubs are on a huge uptick now. And like one of the number one places people are meeting people, like relationships dating is running clubs. I mean, people like, or like that's what's a group fitness environment. So like, again, you're doing something, you're doing something that's good for you, which is like in your, like, taking care of yourself. And it's also a very big social thing as well. I also think beyond that, like if we're going to take a step like, the deeper, I guess, a fitness is sexy. Like the truth of it is is like we like to see people moving their bodies. Well, 100%. It's attractive. It gets something, it triggers something in you that essentially turns you on. It's like it's chemical. We like that going to a bar and drinking. Yeah, you have to turn the lights down so people can't tell what people look like. You have to drink so that you still can't tell. Sexy like fitness is sexy because you see people honest and raw and who they are. How they move their body, how they push themselves. You see a lot about someone. So I think you're getting a way better essentially kind of view of a person of a human being as a mate, as a potential mate. Well, I think that's also like, you know, people who like sweat together, whatever together, you know, like, like, fairamones and stuff. I think I agree. I think it's super sexy. But more than that, I also think it's like you're doing, you're doing an experience together. And that's kind of bonds people versus like drinking at a bar. Right? Like to me, it's like, okay, like I'm glad to see this as like a uptick in terms of, because for a while, I mean, younger people aren't even like dating as much, right? So like the fact that they seem to be struggling in the day. They're struggling with the dating puts up. So like the fact that like writing clubs have become like such a big thing in terms of for dating and for socializing and what was the other one? Oh, I know. I just came back from Miami and I want to know that way the time is from, huh? Well, yes. Yeah. But what does it see something? What I was going to say is, you know, it's massive in Miami that has not made it to the West Coast yet. Something called paddle or padel. I don't know how to say it. Oh, yeah. So you know how like pickleball has been like taken over the world and especially while everywhere. Paddle is really big in Europe and it's become very big in Miami on the East Coast. And they it's there is such a vibe and such a community around it. People exercise and like they're obviously it's great exercise. It's really a great vibe. What's the difference between pickleball and paddle? I'm going to tell you, it's also like they built like a whole community around it where like people are like members at like multiple clubs. There's paddle clubs like, you know, membership paddle clubs and like you talk to people, you watch other people play, you play a game. And to me, this is like this is to me what it's going to like, I believe it's going to like take over pickleball pretty soon. It hasn't yet made it like I said to the West Coast. There's a few places here in LA that do it, but it's not a vibe yet, but it's so fun. I feel like there's a little bit an element of more of a athletic element to it. I don't know why you're doing it more in a cage like what you have like walls or whatever you want to call it. But to answer your question, how is it different than pickleball? I don't know. I'm not a big fan of pickleball. I haven't played it very much. You know, pickleball has like a kitchen, the whole thing. I don't know, but I really like it's that's what they call it. The ball's different. It's a plastic ball and pickleball. Paddle is or Paddle. I don't. Paddle. It's really big for like people from Argentina. It's like Brazilian. It's a very big. That's why I'm. That's why Miami. And that's why Miami, it's become a massive thing that you use a tennis ball. So I think a lot of former tennis players play it, but it's super fun. Like what I guess the reason why I'm bringing it up is like to me, these are really great ways to engage with people and socialize and build relationships in a setting that's like fun, interactive, experiential. And then you're like, you're then like with like minded people who want to be active doing something fun. And so for anybody who doesn't know what if you're living in a place where you should check your local listing and see if they used to go find a Paddle place, it's so fun. It's so fun. Yeah. I know they have one in the century. I know. So this is what I'm going to. So I literally just got back from my, I'm going to go check it out because a bunch of people, I put it on my social media, I was like, oh, I'm playing Paddle. All these people were like, hey, you know what? There is one in LA on top of, you know, of Center City Mall. So I am going to look. But like I said, part of the whole culture of Paddle is that you, I think there's like events around it. The people like hang out and they work. Yeah. Yeah, sure. My brother's in real estate and I don't know if he does pickle or Paddle, but one of the two or maybe both is, it's like a huge networking thing for them. It's great for networking. It's great for business. It's great for socializing. Like there's so many benefits to it. Yeah. I think this to me is where the future of fitness and social and business collides. Like I think the, the, the collision here is fitness and, and professional, and personal meat. I agree. It has, you know, taken a, has lost its social function because people are working from home or they're doing hybrid models or, you know, they're not on work campuses, you know, these offices are closing down left right. All this office space is for lease everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah, people are closing down their offices and working from home and cutting the expenses. So people need, we need a way to hang out with each other. And I think play, especially physical play is the best way for human beings to hang out with each other. I totally agree. And so, yeah. So maybe, you know, if we should go play, we should play together. You should pedale. We should pedale. I'm done. I know. And my girlfriend, Carrie, got me into it there in Miami and heard her fiancee are like super into it. And it was really fun. And like I said, like I just think it was like it's a, it's a really, I think it's like going to be pickleball, you know, two point, two point, two point, oh, yeah. And also, you know, it's really interesting. Do you know that pickleball has more injuries than like another sport? Yeah, I actually kind of make sense not to think about it. Do you know one of my best friends, Admin has shout out to Mimi, one of my best friends, she was like a big pickleball player. And like she was playing pickleball. This is like a couple years ago, maybe a year ago. And she got like, she fell backwards, hit her head and got like a major concussion. Thanks. And like, supposedly like when she went to the ER, they're like, she's just quite clumsy. I don't know how clumsy she is. I don't think I don't know. I don't know. I should ask her. I feel like people like that. Maybe, maybe. I don't know. You're right. I don't know. But she went to the ER and I remember she told me like she was not the first person there that day with a pickleball accident. With pickleball. Yeah. She was like number six. Uh-huh. So, you know, that's really, and another exercise or like another thing that is has massive injuries, like you would never think mountain biking, mountain biking. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had a motorcycle injury that really got me. That's not, yeah. That's not the same. Yeah. No one should ever go out on a motorcycle. That's 100%. Unless, unless you've actually been on one before, in which case you've gone. I know. Have you ever ridden one? No. Have you ever been on the back of one? Yeah. Like when I was younger, younger and stupid. I'm not telling anyone to do it, but motorcycle is, let's be honest, dangerous. It is probably the most fun you could possibly have. Really? Okay. Let's not promote. I'm not promoting. And, and, you know, make that a thing. No one should go on a motorcycle ever. I know a lot of people have died on a motorcycle. You can die doing anything. Yeah. Look at me. Do you know what I did to myself? Do you see this big bump on my hand? Mm. I guess. Okay. Do you know what? Okay. Like, let's, let's what I'm saying. Anything can happen anywhere. Okay. I, I got this bump just to kind of give you like a, my trunk was opened and it was dark. And like a, like a complete dumbass person like I am, I just walked right into the corner of the trunk being, you know, being open. I bumped my head so badly. I like, basically like passed out. Please. Chris. But, you never know what can happen from a motorcycle. There you go. So you, you should definitely not ride a motorcycle. I, I don't plan to. Yeah. Definitely. I should say. Yeah. Anyway, so this is our little shit chat for today. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you. I look forward to being your Padel partner. Yes. We're going to, we're going to actually schedule that. Yeah. That's really a good idea. Yeah. Everyone try Padel. Also, if you have not subscribed, guys, please subscribe. It makes a big difference. I want to hear from you. I want to know what you want to, what, when do you want me to talk about any topics you're just interested in, any guests you'd want me to try to get for the show? Please. It should be an open dialogue here. So with that being said, thank you for being here. Thank you for being here. Thank you. And happy New Year to everybody. Bye.