Episode #84 Featuring James Barry Founder of PLUCK!

Thank you. January is not about reinventing yourself, it's about taking care of the you that already exists. If health and longevity feels confusing and overwhelming, then I have great news for you. A simple daily habit can have a life-changing effect. Cellular health is one of the keys to living a longer and healthier life. Enter My<|pt|>! My-to-peer gummies are the first ever longevity gummies that support your cellular energy so that you can feel strong and vibrant all year long. Remember that you cannot out train sluggish energy. Better recovery starts at the cellular level and My-to-peer gives your cells more power to fuel your day with steady and sustainable energy. Think of this as charging your internal batteries every day. My daily supplement regimen starts with My-to-peer gummies and I recommend that yours does the same. Don't let another year go by feeling less than your best. Hurry now and grab 35% off your one month subscription of My-to-peer gummies at Timeline.com BackslashDillon35. Alright, everybody, welcome back to the Dillinger Melee Podcast on set, which we've been doing a lot more lately, which is amazing. I'm super thankful when people fly in, but especially today, I had the pleasure of meeting my guest, JJ Virgin brought him up to me on her podcast and said, you have got to talk to this guy and I am so thankful. When I get connections like this, my guest is like a one of a kind guy. I'm going to really try to give him the intro he deserves. I can't do him justice, but just briefly, quickly so I can drain him for energy because he does some really interesting and intriguing things that you guys are going to absolutely love. So he's a professional chef, 20 years experience. He's published a cookbook and he's the host of the Every Day and Sestral Podcast. Make sure you check that out. It's amazing. He's the founder of Pluck and I'm sure many of you have heard of it, but if you haven't, you're going to learn a great deal today. He's the, which is the world's first organ-based seasoning and it makes eating nose to tail simple and delicious and I can confirm this a million percent. He's cooked for celebrities, Tom Cruise, George Clooney, but he's really turned his focus, which I love to nutrient density and ancestral health. So what that does is it helps bridge the gap between taste and nourishment. And quite simply his mission is to normalize organ meats as everyday super foods and make real whole food accessible to everyone. You guys know that's my belief too. We see eye to eye so my friends and thank you for coming all the way to see me. James Barry. It's such a pleasure. I mean, getting like we connected over the phone, beautiful connection. Now we finally get to meet in person. So it's truly, truly awesome. We could have done this virtually. We did before, but this is way better and it's way more meaningful and impactful and it just, look, it means a lot to me personally when people do that because it says, wow, you know, we believe in what you're doing. We're invested in what you're doing and we want to grow with you and I'm thankful, man. So I appreciate it. It's so mutual. I mean, I know we were just talking about it before the camera's rolled, but like your journey, while challenging, I cry. Yeah. You probably don't want to repeat it, but it's created such beauty and bounty and most importantly, value. And I think about that all the time. Why am I on this planet and what value am I bringing? Because I just feel like particularly in this today and age with the, the, the, there are so many talking heads. There's so much just noise. Yeah. That I'm looking for authenticity, integrity, accountability and true value. Like just, just, just transparent value. Yeah. You know, and I believe that's absolutely what you represent as well. When you become God first, you find that that any, any live that way, like you're talking, the people that you meet, they just kind of fall into your lap. Yeah. Absolutely. I, when I, so I moved to Boston just a couple years ago, as you know, and I drove from the West Coast all the way to the East Coast. And man, like if anyone out there doesn't think there's, there's, there's problems like, and I don't mean like people are the problem. I'm saying like, we only know what we know, right? So you can't, you can't ding someone for not knowing. Yeah. It's just we only know what we know, what we're supposed to, what experiences we have, what contrast, right? Right. But I saw things like I, I would go into some towns and there would be nothing open except fast food. Yeah. When I got there. And I, you know, or I go into some grocery stores and then it's just, it's just all like host is products and no fresh food. And you're just like, well, of course, people are looking sick. Of course, people are addicted to these foods. Of course, they're not comfortable in their bodies. It's like, what do we expect? So there's a problem. And so I, I really, anyone out there that's like, oh, it tries to, to kind of push that under the rug. I'm just like, dude, you're not helping anyone. No. We got to be honest with ourselves. Like the system is broken. Mm-hmm. There's a harsh reality out there that a lot of us never see. You know, and I don't, you know, my store, I don't take anything for granted because I have been at the lowest of the low. So I get it. But some people haven't. And even after that, you still have your days where you forget, I remember quickly. But it's important that the message is conveyed. And I appreciate you bringing it up and making it clear to people. This is not a lecture. It's not coming down to people. It's an awareness call to just, you know, ease up a little bit and understand. There's some messed up things out there. You know? Absolutely. I mean, like, I think even back to kind of the linchpin for me of what moved me towards rethinking health. So I was just out of college. I was an actor then. And so I had booked this, it's called the William Sound Theater Festival in Massachusetts. It was a pretty well-known theater festival. And I flew from California to Massachusetts, didn't know anyone. And I was there a week and I started experiencing this extreme pain. And I didn't know what was going on. I thought it would maybe it was a appendicitis. But I was crumpled in the corner and my roommate slash new friend was like, dude, I think something's wrong. Like you've been here an hour. Like you need to go to the hospital. And I was like, I was so scared. I was like, I don't, okay. You, I just, I think I was in so much pain at that point. I was like, yeah, just I'll do whatever you tell me. Right. We get there. They still don't know what it is. They give me, you know, something for the pain. And it turned out I had a kidney stone. And so I passed it. And luckily, after I passed it, the first person I saw the doctor, I said, so how do I make sure I never have the skin? Because that was the most pain I've ever felt. And he was like, he said something really important to my journey. He said, well, what have you been eating and drinking? But he not said those simple words. I would not have connected that the food I eat affects my health. And I was in my early 20s. But how many people do you know that are in their 30s, 40s, 50s that still don't get, that what you eat affects your health? Yeah. It seems so simple, but it's like, it's us. People still don't connect that. You know, I give the same spiel over and over when I'm going to give it to you. When I look and I structure things for people, especially like the bodybuilders that used to train, I would explain to them, look, we take your diet, we take your training, then we take your supplements and for them it was steroids, but your supplements are your extras, right, to get you over the hump. And I said, look, 75 to 80% of this is diet. It is. And of course you got to work out hard. Of course you got to train hard for the physique, but if you cannot out work a dog shit diet, you just can't do it. You can have a very strong diet and not work out a ton, which I do not recommend by the way, but I'm saying you could still be in pretty good, you know, decent condition. Of course you want to work out. It's important. But if you work out a lot and you eat like crap internally, you're done. Your blood panel is going to show it, right? It's the diets everything. It really is. The supplements and all that's like three to five percent. It is. It'll just get you over the hump and it'll supplement extra things that you need, you know, and everything like that. But diet diet diet diet diet. Well, I know like, I mean, I know you talk about this a lot like peptides, right? Yeah, like peptides are pretty amazing. Yeah. They're they're revolutionary. They're potentially the future of health. But everyone I talk to and I have to imagine you're on the same, you're basically saying this too, is it almost doesn't matter what new fangled biohack we have? Is there still the necessity to hit the foundations, sleep, nutritious food, movement, stress level checks, right? So those four pillars never change. And to me, that's the ancestral part. Yeah. Like we cannot take the ancestral out of the modern tech or the biohack. You can't remove them. They're not separate. Dude, I can give you every fancy technology, every peptide, every supplement, every stare it. I don't care what it is. But if you are not taking care of what you need to take care of, like what you just said, none of it's going to work. If you're not formally optimized, if you're not mentally optimized, see I'm doing a lot of mind body connection because it requires both. And if you don't have both, if you're off in your mind or if you're off internally, you will never be right. And it takes a large group of things, but there are here components to that. And that's like with what you do and what we're going to get into is the diet part makes such a big difference because I would argue that stress and diet will have the most positive or negative effect, right? Because if you have those two things going on and that's where I'm talking about like the neural side and then the physical side, you think about it and think about what those do and the harm they cause. See, I spent so much time focusing on the nutrition side and the, and the, the, the weightlifting side, but forgot about the neuroside and how much it goes together. But man, we need specialists in both. And then somebody like me that will say, hey, put it together and bring us all together to do it. But that's what you do. And that's what I love about what you do because you do something so unique that nobody's ever done or looked at. But I think that we should, first let's explain what it is you have, but then let us just discuss like organ meats and benefits of animal fats and, you know, these stigmas that have been put on them and these misleading information over the years because you, you know kind of where I'm coming from and I want your side of it. For my money, those foundations that we just identified are really key. And I think that we're, we're trapped in kind of a modern phenomena where we're really the only species in the world that looks to someone else to tell us what to eat, right? And that's kind of humlings a good point. Right away. But if you think about, there's over 9 million species on this planet. So clearly we did know, we're not so, you know, unique that it's like, oh, we're the only, it's like, no, no, we did know. Yeah. But we're just in a state, this modern life, these franken foods, this, this whatever marketing machine we're trapped in, lobbyist, all that stuff is just confusing us. And so what I, what I recognize is in my 20 plus years of working with celebrities that in, in working with food and supporting people to eat real food is I was noticing that they were doing what they thought was all the right stuff. Yeah. Organic, whatever was the trend, they all thought they were doing the right stuff. And then they still were nutrient deficient or there were still health issues or they were still struggling. And I was like, what is going on? Like this is not good. And then you're hearing how like the agricultural systems are broken and the top soul and the food coming out every decade is less nutrient density. You're learning all these things of like, oh, yeah. And then the stressors of life are also hurting us because you can't absorb as much when you're stressed out. And there's so many different factors, right? And so I was like, okay, this needs to, like, let's just bottom bottom line. It's like, what is the most nutrient dead food? Not what we think is the most nutrient dead food, but what really is? Yeah. And so I just started doing the research. I'm like, okay, organ meats pop up every single time. Lever is always at the top. Yeah. And even above beef, even above salmon, even you name it. It's always like, they'll have like every mineral and vitamin they're checking. Lever is the only one that checks off every single box. The other ones might have some of something but none of something else, but liver checks every box. You're like, okay, that's interesting. But then we have these hurdles. Like, people, whether they've had them or not, they think they're gross. They're ect out. When did I get? I get, if you're not familiar with something or I think even organs kind of make you think if you're on mortality a little bit, right? So there's just this vibe that it's like, uh, rather not, right? So there you have that. And then you have that because they're not plentiful because they're not always on the dinner table, we just have lost the culinary knowledge of like how to cook them because here's, here's, I'll just give people value right now around liver. It's at its most flavorful when it's raw. Really? It is the best when it's raw. It gets stronger the longer and the more you cook it. So right there that tells you that most people that are grossed out by it because they were forced to eat like liver and onions, it's because it was over cooked. It's a texture and a flavor. So it, and it gets stronger and chalkier and just kind of gross or, you know, the longer it cooks. So if you want to sample it, first try it raw. And then when you go to cook it, cook it when it's still pink. You don't, don't wait for it to be gray. And because we got to remember when you cook something, there's residual heat so that you don't want to cook it all the way. And this goes for anything, muscle me, anything. You don't want to ever cook it all the way in the pan because the minute you pull the pan off the stove, it's still cooking. Even when you put it on your plate, it's still cooking. So you always want to pull back a little bit. You'll just, you'll like the food better. It will be more juicy. You know, there's just way better, right? And here's another tip. A lot of people always just throw salt all over the muscle, the meat, you know, like the steak. But what does salt do to meat? It pulls out moisture. Right. So really what you want to do is you want to put the salt on the fat and not put it on the muscle meat and you'll have juice your steaks. Yeah. And even better is you take the steak, you put the salt, just, just use a little salt on the fat and then you compound some butter. So and I like to use plucking it. Yeah. So I put plucking the butter and then you put a slab of butter on it after it's been cooked and let that butter with the pluck just melt right over the steak. It's, it's the best steak you ever have in the best. Dude. But so, so going back to it. So I recognize organ meats were the most nutrient. So I was like, how do I solve this? Because the reality is I'm a father now. And that's really what up the Annie for me is like when I became a father, I was like, okay, no more games. Like it's about my kids now. And that's bigger than me. And it's like, I'm not messing around. Like how do I get these nutrients into them? But I don't want to fight. Right. I'm at the end. We all, I mean, come on. Anyone that's a parent, you're just in general. The whole, like life is hard enough. Like I don't want to fight in the kitchen. I don't want to make something and then have someone say, well, I'm not eating that. It's like, you're eating it. You're eating it. You're eating it right now. No, but, but I didn't want to fight. And so I was like, how do I, how do I solve this? And I just, I've always been as a chef. I've never been like, I'm not into watching chef culture. Like I like studying cookbooks and I like learning about how people do things. But I'm not into the whole like celebrity chef thing. I don't find that interesting. And I'm not interested in just doing things the way that they've historically been done. I'm interested in, and how do I do it where you'll eat it where it's flavorful, but not sacrificing health? Right. I've always, that's always how I've been kind of slanted. And so that's how I looked at the problem. And I was like, okay, wait, we already have freeze dried powder doors. Orgamy, it's because they're showing up at capsules. And we already have dried herbs, onion, garlic. And when you make a pate, that is what you're doing. You're combining the organs with these other flavors to offset the taste. So I was like, why don't I make a dry pate? And that's so that it just kind of steam over from there. And then I tried it and I was like, wait a second. If I take the organ, means, and so pluck is essentially what it became, but I start out just doing liver. Then it became liver, heart, can you spleen, pancreas, freeze dried and powdered, 100% grass fed, all the quality. So now you don't have to worry about sourcing. And I combine it with salt, organic spices, and herbs. And now that flavor, because it does bring a lot of flavor, but then also that microdocene of the health is as easy as just salt in your food. Yeah. And suddenly it's like, there's no fight. There's no kind of like, I don't know how to cook this. There's no unfamiliarities. Like we all season our food. So there could be anything going on in the world out there emotionally. You could be going through heartbreak, but you're still going to season your food. Yeah. You never said there's no new habit. There's no hurdle there. But here's the piece that I've only recently learned that I'm just like, this is why I'm in it. So we're talking about, you know, you're talking about, you're joining up talking about mine. And these journeys are really important to who we are now and the value we try to bring, right? But how do you pass on that with, say, if you have kids, you're not going to pass it on by the supplements you take in the corner of your kitchen all alone, just popping your pills, drink your, and then move on. We pass these on by talking about them. Why are we doing this? How is it affecting our body? Right? It's got to be a discussion. That's how you pass your kids are not only looking at what you do, but they're also looking at how you talk. They're looking at the connection, the interaction you have with them. That's what's truly moving their needle and that's what's helping them develop, right? Well, the power of pluck is, because really, how are people in your organ's are now? They're either eating them every once in a while because they're a hunter or something like that. They're eating maybe like once a month, maybe only three times a year in a, right? Or not at all, or they're taking a capsule. So when you're taking a capsule, it's usually isolated event, right? But pluck brings it to the kitchen table, to the dinner table. Now it's like, hey, little Johnny, put it on your plate. Oh, that's so good, Papa. You know, it's like, that's really good. What is that? Well, that's something that's giving you these vitamins in, it's this ancestral thing. It's how our, this body we're in, you know, and suddenly we're not talking about it. And now the kids will carry it with them. And that's what we need. That's how we create change, I believe. Oh, yeah. It's got to be passed down. It's getting inaccessible and making it like something that's desirable, you know, because you're right. I've always been that way with a lot of the foods that I can't live without. Now I spent decades not eating them because I thought I didn't like them. Didn't even try them. You know how long it took me to start eating habacados. And now I cannot go a day without them. And I battled with my wife about it. And I battled with the salmon and all these things that are now my favorite foods. I wouldn't much. Now some of that was fear of fat, you know, but even peanut butter like I wouldn't touch it for, I don't know, 25, 26 years unless it had jelly. And now there's just spoons flying around of it everywhere, you know what I mean? So you're right. So for you to overcome something because you're, you know, I too and the older I've gotten now and I always eat ancestral beef blends. So like I do force a nature because they have that really nice. They do a great job. Yeah, with the liver and the heart they add into their, their elk and their beef and their, their venison so you can get it all right and the bison. So that's it and it tastes better actually. But for you to do it that way because it is, yeah, it doesn't sound great. You know, to say I want to eat liver or heart or, and then you talk about eating raw liver and I'm like, oh shit. You know, and it's in ground meat. So you go here. You're only getting it when you're eating the ground meat. Yeah. You have a steak and I get it. No, no. But here's something that's, I'm so glad you brought up force nature because that's a great product. They're a great brand. What I'm about to say is no judgment around them because I love them and I use them. Yeah. But it's more about people's perceptions of what they're getting. So one of the questions we get asked all time and I'm sure even people listening to this right now are like, well, but how much organ made am I really getting exactly right? Yeah. So I'm always like, okay, well, let's ask a couple questions. So first one, how much are you getting right now? Well, I don't need organ. Okay. So right there just by using this, you're now getting something you weren't, that's important. Very. And then I'm like, when you take a raw organ, 100% organ and you freeze, right? It goes down about 21%. So that water weight loss is significant. And then you're now powdering that. So it's even more concentrated now, right? So we're putting currently 17% organ meat in and people are like, well, that doesn't seem like a lot. Well, guess how much organ meat is in that ancestral blend? Four. Yeah. It's three or four. It's like four to seven depending on which one. Yeah, it's not a lot. And it's because you don't need a lot. Right. Like, I always talk about people like, imagine if, okay, you're a hunter back in the day. Because what's really important about when we talk about an ancestral eating is we have to remember like this body is homo sapient, right? This is like a 300,000 plus year old body, right? Biologically. Yeah. So that means the communication pathways are also developed that timeframe. The food we're currently eating is what? 7,500 years. Maybe not even that. Probably not. Right? The way it is now, who knows? Who knows? But it's like, it's like 300,000 years to 75, whatever, right? So it's like, they don't even compare, it's like a spec compared to grounding life force, right? And so the way I always look at it is like, hey, first of all, this body wasn't developed to be swallowing these nutrients. No. We lose a communication pathway when we swallow things. And I always use salt as an example. Let's first say this. If I put it, give you a salt tablet, you swallow it. You have no communication. There's no reaction. 30 minutes later, like, wait, why do I feel so bloated? Oh, yeah, that's right. I took a salt towel. I probably got too much, right? So it's a delayed response. But if I put salt on your tongue, there's a mini, immediate communication. And most people will say, like, oh, it tastes really good, right? Yeah. How does it taste the second time? Yeah. Okay. I don't know. Four times. No, no, it's literally doesn't taste the same. Like your body's rejecting it, right? Right. That's called the neural-lingual response. That is an absolute communication pathway. We get that in so many different ways. Like if you're trying to lift something that's heavy, there's a communication that happens. What happens to your grip if it's too heavy for your body? Loosen your grip. Yeah. So that's your body communicating. I can't lift this. It's protecting itself. Same thing happens with our, with our tastes, really. And back in the day, what was the communication that was happening? It was really two main things. And they were very intense. One was, is this food going to nourish me? Or is it going to kill me? And they didn't have labels, obviously. So like, it really was life or death. Like you eat the wrong mushroom. You're dead. Right. You know, you eat the, you're foraging. You grab the wrong thing because you don't know. You're dead, right? Or you're severely sick. Whatever, right? Something's going to happen. So it was that communication pathway is crucial to getting us to where we are now. And most of us are disregarding that. We're just bypassing and dis, just not even thinking about the fact that eating mindfully, eating slow enough, eating your food, chewing it. Like these are really crucial communication pathways to getting closer to what we identified earlier is that we're looking to other people, we're outsourcing our nutrition, our health. The only way to get back to what we probably innately already know is you got to eat your food. So that's why I'm trying to bring it back. Yes, you can take it as capsules. And if you are, it's working great. Keep it up because I'm, my, my, my kind of pinnacle is eat orgamy. So I believe it's not just orgamy. It's no to tell. Like eat the whole animal, right? And it's not just liver, just eat as much of the animals you can. If you're already doing that, you are ahead of everybody. If you're doing in capsules and it's working for you, great. But if it's not working for you and you're recognizing that maybe you feel nauseous when you do it or you're just, it's not consistent. Like then I'm like, do, just do pluck. Like get it in your diet because it is the mirror. It's a mirror, it's a miraculous food. Like things just disappear. Like have issues, skin issues, sleep issues, for infertility issues, they just start to like resolve. It's everything. And ideally you would use pluck with the meat and do it together. And then you could really maximize what you were taking it, which is what I've been able to do since I met you because I didn't even know what it was until I got introduced to it. And, you know, I spent so long not even eating these foods that being a nutritionist and understanding what we're talking about yet, having the fear in my head of eating them because of the low fat. And I've talked to you about this before, but... Not cholesterol, right? Because I have cholesterol, too. And that wasn't even my fear. It was the... Because of like having an eating disorder, it was the fear of getting fat from eating fat. And that's just like you said, these correlations of words. And even though I'm a 15 year educated nutritionist and I put people on fat diets, I had myself convinced that I couldn't do it. And then when I finally did, my whole world has changed. Like what you're talking about. So much more ability to focus skin. Like my mom was just here and she said to me, what did you do? What did you go and do and have done? And I was like, what are you talking about? Yeah, your skin is radiant. Thank you. It looks really clean and clear. I would... I mean, yeah, I use some good skincare and things that I'm, you know, thankful I'm able to have, but it's been the diet. Yeah, it's inside out. Yeah, too. It's the... I mean, I have animal fats and protein, not only everyday in meats and stuff like that, but even my protein powders that I customized, they're all pretty much... I have a little bit of way, but they're generally like beef protein, isolate, beef collagen, it's all around animal fats. And dude, I do half a pound to 12 ounces of like good lean ground pork or ground meat every day. And then having pluck is an addition, which I now use. So when we use pluck, just what... What is the extra that we're getting? Like what... Get into what that's actually going to do health wise and how much extra nutrition that we're actually taking in with that, because to... You know, you think of a seasoning, you don't really think of getting much from it other than flavor. Well, and really that is what season's have been. Yeah, we're redefining what season's gonna be. We're making enough functional seasoning. Most seasons, what's the first ingredient? Salt. Salt. Yeah. So really, if you think about salts, it's very cheap. So what they're selling you is salt with some seasoning. Our first ingredient is onion, our second ingredient is all... It's organ meat. And I think salt, depending on the skew, is third or fourth. So what we're selling you is flavor with some salt. It's a very different profile. And really, with you think about it... So Dr. Bill Schindler, he wrote a book called Eat Like A Human. He's an archaeologist. He's specifically now focuses on food archaeology. But he talks about how back in the day, you know, this is before we had fire. So we were foragers originally. And so when you were foraging, you were trying to basically forge all day to get enough nutrients to sustain your body. But we had smaller brains in and we had bigger digestive process. So we could digest that stuff easier, right? Then we became scavengers. So we weren't predators yet, but we came to the animal that was dead. We did get some... Still, the body didn't change much. And that's really important because I think people were all about muscle meat right now. And I'm like, but historically, or... We didn't change much when we got the muscle meat. It was when we got... When we became a predator, we got three things that we historically had not gotten. And one was blood, organs, and fat. And that was like... I equate that to like when you go to like a convenience store, 7, 11, they always have those bottles of like, emergency or whatever. And they're like, just shoot this and you feel super... Like that's what I equated to. It's like, our bodies got this power-packed nutrient-dense food that it had never gotten before in that way. And then what happened was our brains got bigger, our guts got smaller. And eventually we got fire and eventually we got this homo-safety body. But it took that. So when I think about what are organ meats really providing, there's two ways we can look at this. So one is, okay, think about how does your body feel when you eat these foods? Because I think that kind of feeling it is really important. Because it's something that a lot of us aren't doing much is we're following what someone tells us to do or we're following the diet we think we're supposed to be eating. But we're not listening to the probably the one entity that is the most important thing in your life that's not going to lie to you that's going to tell you whether it's working or not. And that's your body. You got to be listening to your body. Yeah. It's got to trump the head. I know. Right? I want you to feel like when you're eating, let's say, I don't know, something franken food, like a hostess twinkie, how does your body feel when you eat that? Shit. It really does. Like if we're really honest with ourselves, it feels like shit. And it's like you can feel like the fats they're using and the oil, like it just doesn't right? And in a sense, you can almost feel the inflammation happening. You can feel your body kind of tensing up. Yeah. I think what it's doing is these foods, when we eat certain foods, it's basically, it's almost like that is this going to make my body, is this going to nourish me or is it going to kill me? Right? It's a form of killing. It's almost like this food is creating danger. Right. Right? So my body is not responding. It's rejecting whatever it is. Right? Then now think about what, what does your body feel like when you eat an egg or when you have bone broth or when you have just a basic whole food? It feels pretty fucking good. Yeah. It feels pretty clean, right? Like you don't feel foggy headed, you don't feel inflamed, you just kind of feel good. Yep. That's safe. That's safety. I mean, I just had a thousand calorie meal and you hear that and you think that and you be like, oh, wow. I mean, you don't feel like light is could be in a million bucks and it's all heavy fats. Avocado's whole eggs. I mean, basically it was all of that. And I mean, I feel like, wow, like the whole world's opened up for me, but it's all real. It's all real. 100%. That's real. That's really key, right? Yeah. And so when we think about, okay, what are organ means bringing the table? The best, the kind of easiest way and I know you could probably go into more of the science. I'm not a real, I'm not a scientist. I'm a chef, right? So I thought I'd run you on as to that. No, no, no, this is great. But so I try to break things down to like the simplest terms and I think about, okay, what is science telling us we need to create life? Well, they say, okay, this is, you need a prenatal and this is all the things you need to deny and you need magnesium, you need to ask me, you need every, you need all these things, vitamin B, right? Everything that's in a prenatal is in an organ. It's all there. Right. And none of it's synthetic and it's all there in its synergistic properties. So like back in the day, we used to give iron pills and I'm talking like in the 60s, people that were inemic. They later on learn like, oh, this is doing nothing because it's not paired with the minute, the nutrition that it needs to absorb. It's senseless. It literally was doing nothing. How often is that happened in history? Vitamin C, you're giving vitamin C, it's doing nothing, oh, because we don't have the rose hips, whatever it, right? There's always some synergistic thing that mother nature did right that needs to be there for true health to happen. Your mate's mother nature did it where I'm not messing with it at all. All you're doing is preserving it through freeze drying. Like it's mother nature's multivitamin. Right. And I really want to get that into people. It's like, we're not trying to trick you. We're not trying to sell you like snake oil or like say that we created this laboratory food and we think that this is what it does because we've isolated it in this tunnel and we've figured out that when you're perfectly in this state that this is what happens, it's like, but we've never, you know, that's what's always happening with science, right? It's always like, this is what's happening and this is what's doing your body. What then when you bring it into the, I always think you're like Jurassic Park, then when you bring the dinosaurs into nature, they grow crazy. Like that's what's happening, right? We live in a toxic soup. How does anyone ever test what things are truly happening? It's impossible. It's just it. It's called nonsense. The mother nature did it right in my childhood. And if you're someone of faith, you know exactly in five. I was just going to say everything that we need and that we have was given to us and put here. We either complicated or, you know, make it something that it's not for money purposes. It's like the scandalous whole practice that people do with things that were sitting right here for us. Medicine, all of it, it's, it's sitting there. But we've over complicated it and there's a lot of reasons that are negative that are bad as to why some things, you know, people are inquisitive. They try things. Okay, that's fine. That's fair. But when you're just trying to make a quick buck at everybody else's expense and their health and misleading and lying blatantly, that's where this all comes from. Because like you said, I mean, it's really, I don't know, mate. Let's just say the past century. You, I mean, people have been greedy since the beginning of time, but the way that it's structurally and become more the ability to convey information and get it put into people's head was really happened more in the past 30, 40 years where you can get information out and convoluted, right? Yeah. Hypnotized people like, like they can in a variety of ways. And now you know this, they put stuff in food to get you addicted to it. And it's like worse than taking cocaine. Well, I think about, they're back in the, do you remember when frozen yogurt was all the rage? I was like, what is that? That in 2000s or late 90s, something like that. You know why yogurt in those places? Yeah. I remember reading article in this to me is the epitome of what we see is, is that was so trendy that you could open up a yogurt store and make a certain amount of money, million dollars, something like that. And, and literally like run it into the ground within a few years, but still walk away with a huge amount of money just because you were hitting the trend, right? Yeah. I feel like that's what's happening. Like I was just even at the store before coming here and I was like, oh, you know, I'm like, this is interesting. So some of the companies are doing it right. It's just tallow and whatever, right? Corn or potato, whatever they're doing. But then you go to some and it's like, yeah, they're using tallow, but they're still using the sugar and all the other stuff and the preserve is like, nothing is different. And you're like, this is state quality. So frustrating. So it's like this, let's relate this to like the peanut butter aisle at Whole Foods or whatever. And so I think that's all of these natural peanut butters and natural this and organic this. And I swear, I did this test with my wife one day. I said, let's go look at all the backs of these and see how many of these just say peanuts and peanuts and salt because that's all it should be, right? It should either be just peanuts or just peanuts and salt depending on which, you know, how they want to make it. And I'm telling you, there were like three out of 20 like and those big brands with all the money. And so, I think one of them, I think, is a good one to use and it's like, it's full of oils and all of this crap that's in regular, I might as well just go get the fucking Jeff and enjoy myself. You know what I mean? Like, what's the difference? A little bit more hydrogenated oil and maybe a little bit more sugar, but these are full of all these other palm oils and every other oil I'd never even heard of that's tricky. And I've heard of all of it, right? And it's just like, what the hell? I mean, I go look for the grinder and just grind it myself. It's holy. I can't screw that well. It must have been a peanut. He roasted it. How you wrote it? It's sugar coated things, what a yeah. But literally, it's like my friends, Robin Ray, the happy, healthy guys, they have this saying and it's called surf and it's just simply eat real food. That I was like, it's a great little thing to live by. And I swear to you, it's, we often complicate things. I do it too. We make things a hell of a lot more complicated than they need to be. And you know what's part of the problem is is people like that are really well-intended, but they start making people scared of everything and people give up. Yes. It's over complicating and like almost, I hate to say fear mongering, but it comes across like, yeah, you know? There's some of that, absolutely. But you do that and then people get so distressed and don't know what to do. They just like screw it because they can't be telling the truth. We need rational explanation. Okay. And when you can just be rational and just go, look, this is what it is. You know? Yeah, I, I, to this day, I still don't understand when people are like, well, but why should I be eating more meats? And I'm like, but you're taking some synthetic vitamin. You're not questioning that. Like, why would you question Mother Nature? I don't get it. Like literally, this is given to us. These animals are the sun, the sun feeds the grass, the grass feeds the cow. We cannot process the grass, the cow with its four stomachs can. Right. And they can absorb all those nutrients. And they, and then now they're getting the sun, the grass. You know what it is. You know exactly what it is, James, it's that these meats in their puriform, like when they're grass fed and everything, you, you see how good they are for you. But when they're pumping them full of all of this crap and all of this, whatever grain and steroids and all of this convoluted garbage, glyphosate, I mean, I can just go on and on. That's the problem. And that's why people then go, oh, that gave me X, Y, Z on my blood panel or gave me this or that because it's not how it's intended to be eaten. That's part of the problem. And then the stuff that isn't intended to be eating, they make it very expensive for people. Yeah, no, no doubt. And you know, I mean, talk about not honoring the animal, being disrespectful of the cycle life. When you take, now this is gonna, people are gonna think I'm joking or lying about this and I'm not. So I went to a Wyoming slaughterhouse and I had heard this, but I straight out talked to the guy who was running the facility and I said, what are you guys doing with the parts of the animal you're not selling? Are they going to zoos? Are they going to agriculture? Like what is happening with it? He said, well, we actually throw it out. And I said, so what? Like how much of the animals is it? He's like, it's about 50%, 49%. And I was like, you throwing it out. He's like, well, we don't have this facility's older, it's not set up to utilize those pieces and they're not in our hasa plan. And it's like, it's not set up in the supply chain. And that's so, think about that as a business owner. So your job is to raise cattle, to then sell it to the world so you can feed the world. 50% of it or whatever percentage, a large percentage of it is just getting thrown out. Like that is the most un-virt environmental, like just inhumane thing to do. And if you think about how this, you know, homo sapient body was designed, remember 300,000 years versus the 60, 70, right? Would we have ever, ever back in the day, killed an animal, not only taking the ribeye? No. Like that is like insanity. That is like, that is the most privileged way of thinking I've ever heard, like it's, it's so ignorant. Yeah. And I mean, on top of the financial idiocy, it's cruel. It's exactly, you would have, let's say, a tribe of 20-ish people, right? You'd your hunters would go out, they would probably fast because when you fast, as anyone that's ever fast, knows your sense is sharpen, right? It's the best way to hunt. And so you're hunting like that, you kill the animal, now you need to replenish your stores. What's the first thing you're gonna eat right there? Probably liver or the heart, and you're gonna eat a raw, probably. So right there, now, so I'm almost kind of, also trying to reiterate, like people like, well, but I eat ribeye and I eat liver. I'm like, we're not designed to do that. We're designed to eat the whole animal. And you're getting nutrients in different ways from the whole animal. And with the advent of fire, you can break down, you know, different parts of the animals in ways and get those nutrients. And that is what I believe God or mate mother nature was, did, designed it that way. If we've never meant to isolate things, we are, as humans, we are opportunistic. So this idea that we, like, we would be in an environment only use a part of it. It's like, no, no, if it was growing strawberries, you ate strawberries, if it was had animal, you ate animals, there were fish, you ate, we were, whatever we could get our hands on, we ate. Right. That was edible, right? Yeah. So this idea that we eat an isolation is false, and that we would, if that, those hunters brought back that animal, they'd already eaten the liver, let's say. So where is everyone, where are the pregnant people getting their eye, or where are they getting it all? The folate, well, the spleen, for example, is something like five times higher hemeyer than even the liver, right? The pancreas has natural digestivins on people that are taking pineapple and such. Dude, pancreas is in pluck, just get some pancreas somehow, open up the caps, whatever you do, get that in your diet. Now you're getting it from mother nature instead of some isolated thing that they did in the laboratory. But mother nature did supply. We just got to eat it. And so I'm like about like, dude, let's not split hairs. Like I don't care how you eat it, let's just get in your diet. And I know that if it's delicious and it's easy, you'll do it. Of course. And that's all I'm here to do. And you're making it easier for people to purchase it, to use it to stomach it if they have their problem. I mean, you're covering all the bases, you're overcoming basically every obstacle and hurdle one would have with, you know, when trying to eat these. People tell me that they, like, particularly women, but they'll tell me that they have a gag reflex when they try to eat or liver. But they don't have that with this. Yeah, that's mental too, but yeah, you're not going to get any reflux with this. Because we're messing, like I get it, like we, we, for, we're, like a lot of people focus so much on flavor. But if you think about human nature, we're actually more texture hounds. Like when we eat chips, for example, are you chasing the flavor or the crunch? That's true. First, you taste the flavor for the first two or three chips thereafter your, your case buds are blown out and you're just chasing the crunch. We are texture hounds. You call, like every, when I used to go to clients and work with them, the first question I asked would be like, so talk to me about the foods that you gravitate towards when you are having a bad day. Because I, or what did you gravitate towards when you were a kid? Like I want to know where you emotionally go and usually it's like creamy, fluffy, crunchy. And then once you get the texture down, now I could cook for anyone. And I could cook you healthy food and you'll eat it. Like I can take, oh I didn't like brussel sprouts because they were, they were like overcooked and slimy or like soft. I'm like, great, I'm gonna broil, I'm gonna coat them and some fat and then I'm gonna broil them or bake them and they'll get crispy like chips. And they're like, oh dude, this is a good, this is a good, right? So I can get you to eat anything. Oh, I know. If I know your texture. Like I said, I have done that with so many foods. I mean, just did it with artichokes. Like I don't know, a month ago in Antique Brillen have you ever done that? I don't know, you'd have to ask my wife how she did. I'm like, sure, however the hell she did, I said, just keep buying it. I don't care. And I would always, I would see the word artichoke have zero clue what it tasted like and be like, I want that without artichokes. And then I, your wife's saying the choke. Yes. Well, one day I said, what is that shit you're eating? And she's like, it's art, what do you mean? It's artichokes. It's just let me taste it. I got into the mode of finally just tasting everything. And that's why my world's open up. And I love everything. You know, like, do the artichokes hilarious? Like have you ever seen an artichoke growing? Oh, yeah. It's the most bizarre we've met. Yeah. Like what I think about sometimes is like, who is the first person that figured that one out? Like really? Because who looked at that plant and said, I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to take that top part and I'm going to boil it for an hour and then eat. It's like, who the hell came over that? I don't know. It's the most bizarre. It's got to be one of the most intricate foods to actually eat and make that I've ever seen. It is. Yeah. And you can't just eat it raw. No, it's like, no, no, no. So I don't know how they figured that out. But that one's hilarious to me. I swear to you, I missed out on so many years. I still keep saying, because I literally cook every single damn thing in carry gold butter now. Can I am so mad at myself for the past 20 years of suffering of thinking that I was going to get fat eating butter. And now I'm thinner and more cut than I've ever been aside from steroid use. Like seriously, and I eat 1,000 some more calories than I was having literally, but it's all, I do a really higher fat diet now. So it's like, like keto style. No, kind of. I don't go complete keto. I'm not scared to death of carbs, but I keep them lower because you know, with some heart things that higher carbs, not great idea. And so I do about 130 grams of fat, about 240 protein and a little under 100 carbs. And I'm just like thriving on it, man. Like literally, like 43% fat. If I'm getting right down to the number 40% protein, rest carbs, so, but you're listening, you're listening to your body, everything. Obviously you're tested. But my HDL has always been in the 40s my whole life. Like always in the 40s, maybe close to 50. The last time I checked it was 79. So I mean, literally, now you're my LDL and stuff did go off. I'm not going to act like that didn't, but that's from the higher fats. But every single thing that I drew on my blood panel, this last one I just took was like the best. It's been almost damn near ever. You do have to sacrifice a little in the LDL, but you need LDL. Yeah, and people have been, it's been because of the statin industry. It's been blown into our heads that we don't need that, which you do. The things you need to look for more on the APO B side, the LP little A side, I didn't think you got to be aware. I'm not saying you want 500 LDL, but you know, the LDL and the cholesterol that you get is so important, our cell membranes are made of fats. And are you, so this is the question I always ask people, because to me, this is part of listening to your body. And to me is possibly one of the best ways to know if something's working is how you poop in it. Like how is it leaving your body? Like are you consistent or are you this or that, right? It's like saying, damn time every day. There you go. And it's clean. That's always so clean. Not like when I was doing that low fat and starving, it was so irregular and so like just uncomfortable. That's communication, that's information. I've been, so I started recently, I'm definitely going more carnivore right now. Yeah. But what I'm doing differently is I'm only doing fermented vegetables. Cultured. There you go. And I feel fantastic. What are some that you're having like, kimchi, sour crouts, but in pickles as well. But I'm only, the key though is the way that you would do these things unnaturally is using vinegar. So you want to look for cultured products that are truly fermented. So if it's fermented, it's going to be more natural. But they're just using salt or the, the, and just the, what's in the air. Yeah. That's to me. Bill and I, the bill is similar I brought up earlier. He and I kind of agree on this. It's like a lot of people focus on the what? Like what are you eating, right? Right. But what's not always in the conversation which we think about because we both cook is what about the how? Because when we talk about like if your digestion system got smaller, meaning that you can't digest these things. Because you know, like a lot of influencers like stay away from kale, stay away from this, right? They're saying like this is bad. But it's like, well, is that bad or is just the way it was you're preparing it? You know, I mean, if you're eating it raw, maybe that's not bad. But like what we got this bigger brain and we got the smaller digestive system, what we gained with the brain is now that we have the knowledge and the tools to make the digestion outside of our body. Yeah. And that's what fermentation is and culture. Oh, yeah. And so you can preserve dairy. You can do things, right? With fermentation and culture. You can take a vegetable that is not going to be good raw or won't even be digestible. But yet when you ferment it, it's completely digestible. Old doctor, Gundry, beat it into my head about the bitter is better thing. Because I, you know, I've interviewed him so many times and talked to him, but he's big on the fermented foods. We talked about it in detail. Because they have a pre-key role in fixing leaky gut issues. That, you know, so. Well, think about it just, okay, our flavors, right? That tastes. Okay, so though there's four that we grew up learning, which is salty, sweet, bitter sour. Yep, there you go, right? There's a fifth that they discovered in the 90s. That's umami. That was in Japan. And then they think there's a sixth. And it's not talked about as much, but it makes sense. It's like when something is rancid, it has a flavor. Right, right. And that's probably a protectant. Yeah. It's just like I said earlier, if it's going to kill me, right? So that probably has its unique taste so that we don't eat it. But it's our body communicating, don't eat this. But when you think about all those tastes have a role. Right. So what is salt represent well hydration? Yeah, right? You need to know what's, it's salty in a food. What is umami? Well, umami is protein. Mushrooms have umami. You need has umami. Organs have it. So that's these flavors, bitters have a role, right? Sour has a role. So what I find is a lot of times people are not thinking about these or they're thinking about them too innocently. And I'm like, okay, let's talk about picky eater, for example. What flavors are only focused on in a picky eater? Well, if you're their American, it's probably salty. Salty. I was going to say, right? Yeah. That that's where their, their palate is, is basically calibrated to just focus on salt sweet. So something is bitter. It's gross to them. Yeah. If something is not sweet, it's gross, right? That's why Skippy was so good when they're kids. And then the natural stuff tastes gross. But now because your palate's recalibrated, the natural stuff tastes right. Really good. And the other stuff tastes gross, right? So I'm always telling people the way to, to fix kind of or to get a picky eater to be more adventurous is you got to introduce those other flavors. But you don't have to go like all in. And this is really important in general, like my whole principle, even with pluck of microdosing frequently, cumulative effect. So I'm all about, let's focus on how frequently you eat these healthy foods, not about how much you eat. So this is the same quality as in America, we always think like, oh, go big or go home. I'm like, but that's not how we are as humans. Whenever anything is, is this stream, we fall off of it. So we are like brushing your teeth works because it's two minutes a day, not two hours. Yeah. It was two hours would be a lot of funky teeth out there. Right? And intimacy, even like I always joke like, okay, if I were trying to work on anything in the human, human body or in error, someone's character, let's just say they have an issue with intimacy. Well, how are you going to move their intimacy needle? Are you going to say, okay, I want you to hug someone, hold them for an entire hour. That's going to move. That's not going to work. It's not going to work. No. Five, like 30 seconds every day, I want you just sitting front of someone and staring their eyes. That's all you got to do. Just be close to them. And then every week, I want you to take a step closer, but you don't have to do more than five, you know, 30 seconds, right? So we can work on, we can work on anything when it's in small doses. Yeah. And we can sustain it. That's the problem. I'm all about that. If I don't care if it's healthy, I want to know what is sustainable. That's it. I'm focused on frequency, but I brought this up though more so because I was talking about I went to pluck because I was trying to quit this. I lost it, but the point is though is that like I really do try to think about human nature as well. And I'm not just thinking about the what I'm talking about the how as well and how does it not only how is it work outside our body, but how does it work inside our body, but also how does it work with my human nature. Right. So I think we should consider all of those things. I agree. We're almost out of time and we didn't get to talk about shark ting. So I got just like three, four minutes, but let's, so if anybody out there isn't aware, pluck was on shark tank. That was October 8th. Was it? Yeah. Yeah. So it was just just recently. So I mean, shark takes been around forever. I have watched shark tank so many times that I know so much about it. So I mean, I gather what you went through just real quickly. How, how nerve wracking was it and what was like, did you feel pressure? Like how, how was the pressure from convey it from what it looks like on TV and how split second, how quick you have to be and what that felt like? I just want to know like, yeah, they cut it. Obviously, I mean, it's like, you film like about everyone's probably a little different, but it's about 45 minutes. Oh, and they're kind of down to like seven or eight. So they definitely intensify it even more so, but it is intense. Yeah. There's no doubt it's intense. You are basically trying to navigate what are the points I'm trying to get across to them, but what am I also trying, I'm also trying to make sure that it's exciting enough because they film more people than they show. Right. So if you're not, if it's not good TV, you ain't get it. You're showing. Oh, wow. Okay. You got to make it good. So you go film and then they let you know, hey, we're going to use you on TV. So just because you don't know, you don't know. No, a whole process and there's a lot I can't talk about because you have to sign. Yeah. Of course, but I don't think this is this is to be expected that through any pro, the whole process, nothing is ever expected. Like you're, you're passing go and hoping that whatever assignment they just gave you that you get to the next level. So even, even after you filmed it, you don't know. You still don't know. And so when we went to film, we got told three weeks before it was going to film, okay, we're going to air. It's like, so I'm just so grateful with film. And to your point, like, Shark Tank, I and I said this. I don't think they showed it. But I went at the end when they interview, I straight up said, I said, look, I'm, I just feel grateful. Yeah. Shark Tank is, this is their 17th season. They have done more for business and entrepreneurs. I know people that watch it with their kids. It is shaping more lives than anything I can think of. And it deserves all the accolades that, how many hours of cardio that I was just feeding and watched old ones like that I learn. Like I don't, I watch it for two reasons. One is to see joy and people and to see them like get their lives made and two is to learn. You know what I mean? It's not even for the entertainment. It's, it's for those two things. I want to see people overjoyed, feeling good, having something happen that they never dreamed of happening. I want to see that I want to feel that I want to feel what they're feeling with them and two, I just want to learn. Well, I think you're going to appreciate this because you're a man of faith. And so I'm in my about fifth year running pluck. When, since I created it, every single year, multiple people would tell me, you got to be on Shark Tank. Oh my God, this would be perfect. Everybody. And every time I was like, no, it doesn't feel right because I, I didn't need it from a ego. And I also, and I'm also a very aware that when I started pluck and even still now we're ahead of the game. Like, everyone's not fully there yet. Like they're getting there. But not everyone's on board with organ meet yet. So I know that we're ahead of the curve. Yeah, of course. And I just never thought like it was the right time. Well, earlier this year, I just suddenly had this epiphany and I was like, you know what? This is bigger than me. Like this is a movement and this is exactly what we've been talking about. This knows to tell movement, bringing people back to like, we got it like, listen to our bodies and we got to eat his mother nature intended and then make decisions from there. Not eat like crap and then wonder why we're sick and then never go back to the nature. You're like, of course. Like, like we got to start with those foundations. Those ancestral foundations. And so I was like, this is about the movement and it's bigger than me and like, I want to go on Shark Tank so that I can promote the movement. Yeah. They buy block or whatever or gets invested. I don't care. Like it's about the mission. Yeah. And I said that and then I went and told my wife that and then no joke three days later. I got an email from one of the producers saying, I saw your ad. We'd love to have a meeting with you and invite you to come and apply to on Shark Tank. And I didn't even know they did that. Yeah. They do it to like, I heard it's like 20% of business. They actually reach out to and then 80% are applying. By right. I got reached out to and I cannot help but think that was divine. Like I had it. It was the shift of me going, this is not about ego. It's about mission. We would definitely do more of this for sure. But I want to make sure that everybody knows where to find you. And I also want to give everybody the opportunity. James is giving me a code for you for 20% off for watching. It's just jamelli. Very easy to use. So just go to it's a pluck dot com. Eat pluck. Because we're all about eating. That's right. Okay. That's swallowing. Beautiful. So eat pluck and then follow you on Instagram. Yeah. We're on all socials at eat pluck. And then if you want to follow me personally, it's at chef James Berry. Sweet. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming out here with me. The pleasure. I really enjoyed every last second of this man. I really did. We got to do it again for sure. No doubt. Awesome. All right. Everybody will that wraps up another one. Make sure you go check my man James out. Support him. Take care of yourself. This is a perfect way to do it. And stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan, jamelli and James Berry signing off.