Precision in the Kitchen: Chef Thomas Mandzik & Aaron Sharpe with Testo, and the Systems Behind Food Safety and Consistency

Close your eyes. Listen to Monday.com. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform. So flexible and intuitive, it feels like it was built just for you. Now open your eyes, go to Monday.com. Start for free and finally, breathe. Today's episode is about the part of the kitchen most people never see. Not the plating, not the pass, not the final look of the dish. The systems, the controls, the measurements that separate a good kitchen from a reliable one. Chef Thomas Manzik is back in studio. Thomas is one of those chefs who understands that elevated cooking is not just about creativity, it's about discipline. It's about consistency and it's about getting the details right every single time. At the same time, we're welcoming a new partner into the Walk and Talk Media ecosystem. Aaron Sharp is here from Testo North America, a company that lives in the world of food safety, measurement and precision. The part of the business that doesn't always get talked about, but sits underneath everything. And joining us briefly by Colin is Eric Moore, who is currently at a GFSI conference in Canada. Eric will be part of the new reoccurring monthly segment with us focused on food safety and the systems behind serious kitchens. So this episode is the foundation, not just of a new partnership, but of a deeper conversation. Because as we get closer to 200 episodes, it feels like the right time to spend more attention on the parts of the industry that actually keep it standing. Great food is one thing. Getting it right every single time is something else. Let's get into it. Chef Thomas Manzik, welcome back. Ooh, it was a great day. John, Carl, thanks for having me, man. Don't you get excited coming to this place? You know I do. I mean, I nerd out for the first couple of weeks and then I really start thinking about all the dishes. I love how you guys check on me and make sure that I'm like, hey, what's going on? And I'm like, I kind of get in a little writer's block and then you tell me to chill a little bit. Yeah, but you did a couple of bangers today. And I always appreciate your food because I know what's going to be that elevated next level dish. And today was no different. Let's start off with the first dish, the steak dish. Go for it. The steak dish was kind of a homage to a steak frites. I got the Australian Wagyu beef. I sous-vide it, a little shiitake peppercorn crust, a little cavernageou, I made a little rosemary dust and truffle jam and a Yukon potato pavette. All of it was great. Every ingredient that you just listed, literally you could taste each ingredient on the dish. And it was fabulous. It was funky. It was real good, man. And well, so here's the thing. And you said it today, we're cooking, we're filming, we're doing our thing. First dish went back. You're washing dishes. Yeah. And you look up at the TV monitor, I'm waiting and you're waiting and you're waiting. Is it there? Is it there? And I caught you saying it because you were by yourself basically. And now audience, what he's talking about is that's John is doing his photography magic. The photos he's taking right out of camera are basically showing up on the TV screen. And the chefs that come here who've been here before know about it and they just wanna see what's up. And that what happened today was pretty cool, man. Yeah, John spoils me because I remember the very, very first time, you always remember your first. We were the very, very first time and it was like, whoa, what is that? Oh, that's my food. That's my art right there. And so I guess it was that moment where I was just, couldn't wait to see it on this big screen. Yeah, you're like, yeah, did somebody do my dish? What is that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we did go a little wild with that rap person dish because it had a really cool shim to it. You know, a little shimmer to it. John, what did you call that? Perlescent. Perlescent, yeah. I just learned that word today. It was quite perlescent. So I was gonna use it in the sentence. All right, yeah dude, it was badass. And it was one of my favorite dishes. Think it from you. Dish two. Well, first of all, dish two, maybe for me, even though we're talking like plus nine, you know, wagyu, the prawns on the second dish, bro. It was electric. Like when you took a bite and you got like, almost like a citrusy, you got all of the different profiles in it. And when you see the pictures of this thing, you're going to see all of that in it. And you'll be able to taste it from the photo. Am I wrong? No, I don't think so. I mean, this is something that I've been working on for a minute and definitely I think I've tried to hit the mark on the electricity of everything put together. The only thing that was missing was like some herbs. Those we've been eating. Don't you dare? That's in there. What happened with that? Well, I mean, Carl knows more than any that I'm a nerd when it comes to, and I'm a big fan of walk and talk. And I was actually listening to the last episode 189 and I'm driving and the chef starts talking about his dish and he says sweet potato. And then I remember seeing one of John's posts on his personal Instagram and I was like, yeah, I think that's purple. I think that's Okinawa sweet potato. And that's actually when I was pulling into the parking lot to go get as I was pressing pause on the podcast. So I instantly called Carl and I said, he's using Okinawa sweet potatoes and he goes, yeah, that's a good catch. Yeah, well, that's cause I was gonna go grab some. Yeah, it was literally like 730 in the morning and you gave me, you know, you reach out and I'm like, for me, that was the coolest thing I've ever heard. And that was real time in action. That was pretty cool, man. And that made my day. Had to bring it up on the show. All right, but let's rock out on the dish. What was it? I did a classic homage kind of along with the rock porcelain plate. So it was a classic coconut shrimp with butter poached prawns and then the coconut shards on top, passion fruit sphere, miso beet paint and jalapeno lime ale. Really good, man. And you know what those prawns were gigantic. Those were like prehistoric prawns. Well, you know, you gotta go bigger, go home. This is welcome to talk to media, baby. You know it. Yeah. I can't believe we're coming up on 200 episodes. Yeah, I cannot believe it. I've been a fan since the first episode finally got on here. But you know, what do we got? 10 more? After today, 10 more. I think this is gonna land sometime, maybe June 8th, 6th, something like that. It's gonna be the Monday of that week. Yeah, so you gave me a ring. You actually reached out. So let me just stop for a second. I walk into there and we're doing our set up here with John. And I said, hey man, you know, I got 200 coming up and you know, calling me about it was a man's act. And he immediately cut me off, of course. And he said, he says, you know what we should do? So Cindy, his wife, she says, we should do something on Ilios Pizza. So you gotta stand something. John and I have known each other for six million years. And back in the 80s, 90s, Ilios Pizza was like, that was it. And we would just, you know, murder Ilios Pizza. Like, you know, cases at a time. So anyway, it was a great idea. And I was like, well, all right, stop. Because Chef Manzik, he gave me a ring like a couple of few days ago and we talked about it. Tampa Club, Shindig, a mixer, have a bunch of chefs in and like make it a big thing. I saw the look of disappointment on his face. It's true, you did. You were like, well, what about Ilios? Don't tell me that. I'm looking at John right now. He's like, well, what about Ilios? You know, basically, he didn't say it verbally. It was anyhow. And I said, you know what? We're gonna still have Ilios at Tampa Club at the end of whatever we're doing. Well, I like the sound of that. Yeah, we're going to cheers each other with Ilios Pizza. What do you think about that? I love it. I love it. You know, let's not forget how the chefs like to eat. And that place is amazing. So what we're gonna do instead of having like tables, we're just gonna have a round of garbage cans that we can eat over for the chefs. I mean, it still is the Tampa Club. Can we at least Tampa Club it up a little bit? Yeah, we can use linen liner on the inside. You know, my table, just so we're on the same page here. So people who don't know this, if you work in the industry, in the kitchen specifically, like your, what ends up happening is people eat over garbage cans or sinks, you know, it's one of them. I at home still eat over the sink. I stand up, my wife is like, what the hell is wrong with you? And I'm like, I'm just comfortable. Sometimes just eating something over the sink. Right or wrong? You're right, 100%. Okay, so it's no disrespect to the Tampa, Tampa Club is like the pinnacle iconic sort of place to be in Tampa Bay. You know, I don't want any trouble here. No, sir. Well, you gotta make sure that the chefs are comfortable. So I'll bust out some six pans too. We can put the pizzas in there. Yeah, we can even throw six pans, like, you know, throw them at each other, you know what I mean? Well, after normal, we don't talk like that in here. After normal, right? Oh my God. One of the biggest frustrations I hear from operators is putting time and money into things that don't actually bring people through the door. Frankie is approaching that differently. It's a pay per visit model. So you're only paying when diners actually come in and spend. They're also leaning into user generated video. Real diners sharing real experiences with over 220,000 restaurant videos out there already. What stands out is the accountability. You can actually see what's driving real traffic and revenue into your restaurant. If you're looking for a more measurable way to bring in diners, Frankie's built to do exactly that. They're offering $250 in in store purchases to get started. Find a link in the show notes to redeem the offer. Yeah, there's so many things that I would want to say about that, so many things. That's a two hour episode that you and me could really break down. It really is because, you know, I mean, I get it, like, real fast. Aaron, I'm looking at you, man. I'm bringing you on here in a second, but he just broke the seal with the Noma thing. Look, here's the thing. I understand. And he know what? He did the right thing for leaving. But I knew the sign of that. Most of all, that was like from 20 years ago. And I don't think that's cool. And the truth is, you shouldn't be treated poorly anywhere by anybody. And I live by that. Same breath. You gotta like take your lashes and learn and earn. I think that's part of, that's part of how you become something bigger than what you are. You gotta earn it. And sometimes earning it is, you know, you know, coals and fire and crawling over it and all of that. So I'm walking the fine line on it. I don't think he should have resigned, per se. Maybe, I don't know. But did he? Mm, mm. Okay. Because I have to, as a chef. Of course. I came up in that time as well. And I would have done anything to be able to put, I stashed that Noma. And that's the part of it. Because the same people that wrote that they stashed that Noma got to go to any place and walk on the door and they were the executive chef or the executive sous chef like that. And they still use that. And all of a sudden, they started creating this whole thing. Now, should you have hit somebody or poke somebody with a barbecue fork? Definitely not. Somebody should have punched him in the face for that. But at the same time, they exploited him by, they came there and they knew what the deal was. They knew what the rule was as much as I knew what the rule was when I had to do my free work and get to where I'm at. And all of a sudden, everybody's dog piling them. And I don't like the fact that New York Times waited until three days before the event to throw that out there. Because if they really did care, they would have reported that a long, long time ago because they were sitting on it forever. Support for Walk and Talk Media comes from Metro Food Service Solutions, trusted by kitchens that need storage and workflow that actually does the job. Learn more at metro.com. I agree with everything you just said right there. 100%. And you know what's funny about that? So I was never a chef. And I didn't want to work in the kitchen ever. Like they tried, you know, I got 10 years of restaurants. They always wanted me in the kitchen. And I didn't want to do it. So I understand the culture a lot, right? And then when I got into food service distribution, I had an English chef at a very high-end hotel in Miami. This was a long time ago. Something happened with their order, whatever. Mushy tomatoes or something. And he calls me and he's ripping me on the phone. And he's demanding that I show up in person. No problem, chef. I'll be right over. Get on my way over there, walk in. Do you know his whole staff? He did this on purpose. His whole staff was in the kitchen. And he proceeded to verbally beat me up. But then he grabbed me by my collar and pulled me in. And I drew the line right there. Now, this is like probably 1999, 2001, something ran around in there. And I was in my mid-20s, so my 26, 27. And I said, whoa. I said, chef, with all due respect, grab his wrist. And I pulled it off me. And I'm looking dead in his eyeballs. And I just said, with all due respect, you don't touch me. I will do whatever it takes to get this fixed. Don't you ever touch me. I thought for sure I was getting thrown out of that account. Because there was literally probably seven or eight people on this team there to see, to show, well, this is how you do it, not today. But when I didn't get thrown out and we had a side conversation, I apologize. Yeah, because you're in front of the bully. Yeah, but I know it's different because I don't work for him, per se, there. But like those people do, they would have to eat that. Yeah, so I get it. I understand. All right, look, this is a true talk about this forever. Yeah, look, Aaron, welcome. Thank you. To the forever. I mean, how is this, right? I mean, you had a great time today. I know you did. I mean, let's start this off on the right note, chef. Those dishes, come on. Like, knocks it out of the park. Thank you, sir. I mean, it was just a once in a lifetime experience. The camaraderie, all of the things that happen here, basically, when a chef is here and we have another guest, there's cooking. I want to, I almost, it's not exactly family meal, but it's kind of family meal because dishes are being made. We're filming, there's photography. But then we eat everything. Everything gets cut up, plated for us, all of us, the team. Whoever's here. And we enjoy each other's company. We eat, talk, and then we come sit on the podcast and we're doing this. So is it a once in a lifetime? It doesn't have to be, but I think it's super cool. You know, I say that because for me, I worked in the industry. I got the opportunity to stodge that you were just talking about. I got the opportunity to work in bakeries. And for me, you don't get this. You don't get the camaraderie. You don't get the smile on the face when you walk through the door. You get a different perspective. You get that hard ass look from a chef saying, either take this or you don't. So this is just, for me, at my age, getting to do this, this is a really awesome, awesome experience. We appreciate people who appreciate. So thank you. Absolutely, Thomas. In your kitchen, when it comes to proteins specifically, is temperature the standard everything runs through or are there other markers that you rely on just as much? You know, 100% man, let me tell you something. With the type of meats that I use at the Tampa Club, it's only the top brands, Prime and Wagyu and things like that. And I have to say that we use thermometers only specifically for that to be able to test all of our mid-rares, mediums, and stuff like that. Michelle, you've been doing this a very long time, long enough, and your team too, for that matter. Most chefs, most cooks, they're checking temps by feel. In your kitchen, that doesn't fly. How come? Because I don't leave by chance the fact that there's such an amazing technology that why would I leave that to human error? Much like, you know, now that with AI and chat GBT and all the technology out there, we should be using that and exploiting it 100%. Yeah, we're thrilled actually to partner with Testo. And the reality is food safety is a big deal and measurement systems, that's where it's at. You know, as I mentioned in the monologue, we have Eric Moore, who's with Testo, he's their food safety specialist, their expert. And he's actually at a food safety convention, conference now in Canada. And he's gonna be on the call here in moments. And we're just gonna do an introduction because we are doing a new monthly segment in April that has everything to do with food safety from farm to retail, everything in between. And I think people are gonna really dig it because everybody wants to have safe food, their environments, the product, storage, all that. Let's get Eric on the line. Hey, Carl, thanks for letting me call in. Happy to be here. Man, you know what, it's really great. For me, it's pretty cool that you are physically at a food safety conference right now in Canada. That is true, yes. I am in Vancouver, British Columbia, first time ever coming here. It's quite a beautiful space. And I am attending, it's called the Global Food Safety Initiative. It's an annual conference that brings together just under a thousand global food safety experts from some of the largest food manufacturers and food retailers in the world. And they talk about current challenges and future opportunities. A lot of talk about technology and AI and things like that. Yeah, for me, I'm looking at that and I'm just thinking, I was talking to Aaron the other day about two day, Amy says, yeah, Eric's gonna be at a food safety conference. I said, that's the best thing ever, because the show that we're gonna roll out, our segment with you, Mr. Eric Moore, is a food safety based show. So I'm really excited about that. You know what, why don't we do like a airplane view of who you are, where you came from real quick. Cool, right on. Yeah, I'm excited for two. This is my first formal foray into like reoccurring podcast opportunities. So I'm looking forward to it as well, Carl. So myself, I'm a practicing food safety public health expert focused on food safety for the last 25 or so years. And last nine of which have been with Kesto as a subject matter expert and resource for the organization. I also do a lot of organizational outreach and association based work to share information around food safety oriented technology. Prior to that, I've worked for basically a large, a large North American grocery retailer. I was there for five years. And prior to that, I worked for a couple of the world's largest managed food service organizations. So my focus throughout my career has always been around operational food safety and incorporating efficiencies in process optimization wherever I could. And this all sort of happened kind of naturally. I have educational background. I have a degree in hospitality from Penn State University. And right out of college, I went to work in higher education dining services. And then that position just evolved into supporting food safety in those environments. And it just grew and grew and grew and grew and grew and led me to where I am today. I'm talking to you back. Well, listen, as far as I'm concerned, and the way I see this, if we look at social media, you know, at large, what you see is a good, we're talking food, obviously, there's such a push for education regarding, you know, what we're eating, how we're eating it, you know, organic or not, all these different things. The big elephant in the room with food, right? And that goes from farms, you know, all the way through to the final bite from a guest at a restaurant, is how is that food handled? Where is it stored? Is it properly handled? All of those things, and that can go from literally, again, from the farmer all the way down to, you know, a line cook somewhere in your local dive bar. Like it's just one of those things. And I feel like the population, the people who are on socials, the people who are listening to podcasts, this is right up their alley. So if we give them information, what it really is, and what to look for, and just all of that, I feel like it's gonna be a major win. I mean, I totally agree. You know, I think, you know, at a very, very macro level, it's easy to talk about food safety, but when you really start to look at whether it's restaurant level execution, it's food manufacturing level education, distribution channel execution, or back as far as you mentioned, into the agricultural component of things, it becomes really, really nuanced. But it also becomes, you know, like, I think ways to educate and share information, but you have to be able to do it in kind of in the right, the right way and the right approach to cultivate the right message for the right audience at the right sort of point in the entire paradigm of food from sort of seed to seat, if you will. So you're going to be the educated, eloquent one. And I'm gonna be like, all right guys, people, hey, wash your hands, okay? All right, I mean, yeah, this is what it's gonna be. I'm pretty sure it's that. Right on. I usually, I try to sound polished, but oftentimes that may go to the wayside. Listen, I'm not trying to bring you down, man. All right, let's just elevate. So I gotta get rolling here. I gotta get back into the general session for this conference. Awesome, man, and you know what? I can't wait to actually catch up with you on what you're doing over there, but before you split, what's the expectation here? What are they looking to pull from what we're doing on the segment? I think we wanna be able to convey the importance of trust and transparency and what is happening in the places that people go out to eat. Beautiful, and you know what? I'm looking forward to that. I think that it's gonna be well received, well embraced. Testo North America, Walk and Talk Media, we're gonna bring it together and educate. Eric, have a wonderful rest of your trip. I hope it's successful and we'll catch up very soon. Yeah, cheers, guys. Thanks for the time. Take care, man. Thanks, Eric. Take care. Likewise. Bye-bye. Walk and Talk Media is proudly supported by Rack Porcelain USA, creating durable, beautifully designed tableware for chefs and hospitality professionals. Learn more at rackporcelain.com. I think one thing that set ways into what Eric just said and also the importance of chefs tuning in, those episodes is the fact that like, you know, this is something that most chefs are not educated on enough. And Testo, as when we were talking over there, you know, you said, hey, you want all that? Because you asked me about my, you know, what type of techniques and standards do I have and I told you what I do and it's China markers and things like that and you go, do you want it to be a little easier? I'm like, yeah. Well, I think to that point, you have to think about, you know, within the last five, six years, you know, COVID happened and everybody became lazy. And, you know, everybody said, well, I'm just gonna, you know, start pencil whipping. It happened before then, but in the present day and age, you have to, you know, take a step back and look at food safety and, you know, like you have your staff temp every single steak that walks out of your kitchen. Well, why? Consistency, it's brand, it's, you know, the acknowledgement that your standard is on the plate. And what Testo has to offer is the fact that, you know, we as a company can really educate your staff so you don't have to do that hard part. Aaron, isn't everything Thomas is talking about, like removing guesswork, you know, when you're building systems and that's kind of where you want to live? Yeah, it's, you know, there's something in the industry called SOPs, okay? Well, let's dumb that down for a minute because the first time I heard that, I was like, what is that? Well, SOP is really a standard practice of measurements. So you're taking out the guessing work and you're putting in the data. So when the health department walks in the door and they say, hey, chef, show me your cooler logs, show me your temperature logs for this, the Wagyu or the shrimp dish that you made. Well, sous vide has to have its own plan, of course, in order to make sure that you're guaranteeing accuracy, first of all. So now you're taking all of that, you're putting it into a digital cloud, you're making it accurate because you're not guessing and it's also educating your staff. So it's three components really. You can't treat food safety like a checklist. It has to be built into the performance of the team. Correct. You know, I think in the end with something like that, it has to be a part of their day and it has to be structured into the fact that you can't pass to the next level, so to speak, unless you are showing the temps, doing the logs. And you know, the archaic way that I've been doing it, the old school's ways is pen to paper, China marker on a laminated piece of paper. The testo has all these great products, you know, and the system said are in the cloud or on my app, on my phone. Thank you for adding that to my phone today. That's pretty freaking awesome. Of course. Yeah, let's pause there for a quick second. If I could, I kind of want to add a point. You know, there's high turnover in the industry right now. So think about how you can use an application to train your staff because our application does that. So you don't have to, you don't have to be the one to do it, nor does your sous chef have to be the one to do it. We can do it for you. Digital way to advise them on how to use friars, how to use thermometers, because there are individuals that just come into the culinary or hospitality industry without any experience. Hey, but it just makes you stronger. It's one thing for a cook or a chef to have instinct and rely on that instinct. And it's another thing to have tools available to assist or aid you and make you do it better. Yeah, I think that the other thing to this is, you know, there are chefs out there that just literally will like, all right, let's use that wagyu again, because it's a great example. I'm just going to touch that wagyu and I'm going to see if it's, you know, mid-rare, medium. But how do you truly know? How do you know that that's actually where it needs to be? And it goes back to that accuracy. So I think that there's, you know, there's a lot in food safety because I'll give you a great example. There's one thing that I have found in the last year that I've been with Testo is that people do not take food safety seriously. There are places that don't do food safety checklists. There are places that don't have sensors in their coolers. There are places that, you know, the list goes on and on and on. But the one thing that is fascinating to me is that the health department walks in the door and they take a piece of chicken and they just dump it and they pass. Well, how? Luck. It's complete luck, but here's the deal on that real quick. So I just had my inspection, my first annual inspection for 26 the other day because everything was in place. Because, and again, we didn't have everything, you know, that would, with these new technologies with Testo, unfortunately, which I plan on getting into and introduced into my staff and to the club. Everything worked out because we had standards, we had procedures and we had everything in line that we were actually beating the inspector to say, okay, here's our logs, here's the temps, here's the testers and things like that. Because we had everything in line, the inspector said, I'll see you in 27. So we only had, we only got one inspection this year because we had everything in play. And unfortunately, this isn't, you know, we always build the wall after the Mongolians attack and in the chef world. But in the end, if we would put these standards and these techniques and these disciplines in front, our day would be a lot easier and it wouldn't be fines and other things that could happen. And even serious, somebody catching something or a norovirus or something like that. Well, I was just gonna say, so if you don't have these systems in place and somebody gets sick and you get sued because somebody ate a piece of chicken that's 150 degrees, what are you doing? How are you covering yourself? You're gonna go out of business. And that's why food safety is so, so important because back to Eric's point, it's a daily thing that you need to consider. Standard operating procedures, SOPs, it's a big deal. And the reality is we all have our local places we wanna go eat and then there's all the big chains and then there's like the elevated independent restaurants that are high end. I've been in a lot of kitchens and you never know what kitchen you're gonna walk into. That's a disaster and it could be any one of those. You think you're safe when you're walking into a, an outfit that has a hundred units somewhere. But it doesn't work that way. I walked into a country club, this is a long time ago. I'm not gonna say who, where, whatever. I walked into this country club and it's a nice place. And I just, you walk in and you feel something that isn't proper and I didn't know what it was. I'm looking for chef and I'm asking some of the cats who are in the, you know, doing prep or whatever. And then it dawned on me. The walls were moving and the floor was moving and I'm like, what the hell is this? And I started like really focusing in. They had a German roach infestation. I've never seen anything like this in my life. They were on the floor. I mean, I'm talking like by the hundreds. On the floor, on the walls, on the prep table where the guy was cutting chicken and doing his thing. And they were like there, they were living, they were there. And I was just like, I couldn't believe it. And I'm actually looking at my legs. You know, I'm looking at my feet. I'm looking, I'm like, cause I feel like I'm going to, I'm gonna leave with them. And I hauled ass. I got out of there. You take one of those suckers home and all of a sudden, yeah, you got a problem. So I was, I made sure that when I left, I didn't bring anything into the car or home or whatever. But point is, this was a prestigious club and that was happening. And they were still cooking through it. They were doing their prep. They were working and I just was baffled by that. I couldn't believe I'd ever witnessed such a thing. Now, that's real, but that's the analogy of all these cultures that it just became the normal. It just became the normal. Anybody else, and I'm sure their first day, they were shell shocked. But then it just becomes like, yeah, it's no big deal that these things are going on like that. And that's what's scary. And that's why a company like Testo and creating these standards and these techniques and these disciplines are what is important because then they become the everyday lifestyle. That's crazy, but you know. This session of Walk and Talk Media is made possible by Citrus America, delivering fresh Florida citrus and juice solutions to food service professionals nationwide. Learn more at CitrusAmerica.com. The other thing that you have to think about is, take a step back. That's, you know, let's take food out of it for a minute. Let's talk about the staff and their appearance and the way that they're apron, you know, if they have a dirty apron or they have dirty clothes or, you know, whatever it may be, I can count like an over a dozen times or more that I've walked into a restaurant and I've seen an employee walk out of the bathroom with a apron on or they go in and they take a smoke break in the back and they have their apron on and then they go back into the kitchen. Well, you're not keeping your staff accountable. And that's where we really, really have a strong relationship with our customers because, you know, if there's one thing that we can help you with, it's setting those standards and we can even make it so you can take a picture of your staff before they start their shift. So you know that they're walking in and leaving at the end of the day with a set standard. That's super, super important right now. So, you know, I think that the other thing that you have to take into place is hospitality has such high, high turnover. So if you set a standard at one location and you have a franchise of a thousand locations, you better make sure it's all the same. Post COVID, all bets are off. Yeah, all bets are off. Not only did you lose, you know, half of the workforce, I mean, gone from the industry totally. And there's been a resurgence, you know, obviously, you know, there's been a balance back, but ultimately it's not the same. And the older folks, I don't know if they came back. You know, the ones who have the experience. So now you're getting the younger crowd and the younger crowd, like you said earlier, they're not having it. And I don't know if the turnover happens fast enough to where you train these people to where they even know what they're doing properly. And don't get me wrong. And I don't know whether you get in my new messages or whatever about any of this stuff. Because at the end of the day, I know everybody works hard. This isn't about that. But there is a threshold. There is a work threshold. And I'll go back to NOMA and all of that. Like, you know, sometimes you gotta work a little harder than you might want to. But ultimately, like Erin said, like be proper, be clean. Like that's a big deal. It's, you know, it also comes down to how serious do you want to be taken? You know, take food safety out of it. Take everything out of it. Look at you as a person. Like how much do you want to be considered and relied on? Because it's your professionalism that's being taken into consideration. But much like Carl's example of the Roaches Everywhere that was in Tampa Club, that was that example. You know, it goes down to the senior management and the managers. Like you don't allow these employees to come in, you know, presiding themselves certainly because I've had that issue with somebody and I pulled them aside and said, hey, do you want to work here? No, do you want to be a chef? Because that's why I've employed you. And he's like, yes, yes, chef. And I said, then go home and get yourself situated. And you know, I don't want to embarrass the person, but at the same time, he never came back like that. Because why? Well, they're not going to allow that here. And these are the type of things that, you know, as managers and you're right, there's so much turnover that we train the first batch and then we turn around and then we're busy. But if so, we've got, you know, somebody like Testo that can help us with those things and create that standard technique and discipline that we need and, you know, then I'm all for it. Well, why do you think chefs are hitting you over there with a frying pan? Like, what do you, that's why, that's what it is right there. What are we talking about? Yeah, but I mean, if you think about it, you know, when I was in school, everybody compared themselves to Gordon Ramsay. Okay, we all had that Gordon Ramsay face. And when I was in culinary school or baking school, I thought I was going to have trash cans thrown at me. I thought I was going to have, you know, stuff, there are knives thrown at the time. There were only 67 master chefs and one of them happened to be at my university and he was the one that was throwing the knives and doing the trash cans. But you know what, at the end of the day, I'm so glad I got to experience that because it puts the skin on really thick and it makes you that person that, you know, can be accountable and really be a chef and have that passion. I think, and Chef, you can set me straight, okay? I look at it like this, in the military, you go through your boot camp and they break you down to nothing. And then technically they're supposed to build you back up and instill all of these, you know, the character into you. The chefs who could do that are the winners and it's good. But then there's the chefs that don't actually build you back up. Those are the ones who destroy the reputation in the industry. I think there's something to that right there. Yes and no. I think for me, you know, I would drive home when I had a blow-up on my, you know, and maybe should have checked myself a little bit and understood I don't like who I was in those moments. And I have apologized to employees, but I've also had employees come apologize to me. I had had employees walk out. And you know, in the end, I have lost my cool and it is a high pressure area. But in the end, we have to be better as head chefs on how we treat people personally. But when it comes to the actual professional, you know, moments and you've had this conversation with them several, several times, it's in that moment where you just know that it's not that they aren't getting it. Like that's the difference. If you know they're just doing what they're gonna do or not paying attention enough, then yeah, the stakes are high. And you know, for myself as an example, it leads to me. If that cheeseburger is being burnt right now while I'm sitting here, that's my cheeseburger that was burnt, you know, when it comes down to it. And you know, I work on training my staff and I work on holding my staff to a certain accountability. And yes, there's times because I am human. I've lost my cool. But in the end, I continue to work on showing the respect to the human being. And then, you know, at the same time holding my team to a certain accountability. And there has been times that, you know, over the years, I've lost my cool, but I didn't like that. And I've been working on it every day, you know. And but the physical and the mental and the throwing knives and stuff like that, like no, that's uncalled for. Yeah, but I think to your point, Carl, like, you have that small group that, you have a small group of chefs that wanna be chefs. And then you have that other group. And you know, let's go back to food safety for a second. If you have a group that wants to be a chef, they're gonna take it seriously. But if you have the other group of people and they're not taking it seriously and they're not washing and rinsing and sanitizing the way that they're supposed to, and the chef is, you know, not being professional, then they're not going to take it seriously. So you have to, it's, you know, back to your military point, you're a unit. If your unit is broken, it's not gonna be a well-oiled machine. So you need to really hone in on what you want and how you wanna be and get your team to be the same. Well, that's what I was saying. It's okay to tear somebody down. And I'm not saying hitting them. No. Costing somebody. No. Whether that be put your hands on somebody or, you know, some sexual, none of that. Like none of that is okay. We're all on the same page. But when it comes down to being hard on somebody, that's different. And I think you should be, for the people who actually care about a career or learning, take the beating, not the physical beating. Take the hardship of it. Take the coaching. Take the coaching. Right, but sometimes that coaching is not gonna be like, oh, Kim, you're honey, like it's not that. No, no, no. And maybe we mean coaching different. I'm saying, look, you know, the chef's on my butt all day today. Da, da, da, da. I'm just not getting it. You know, and he or she just won't leave me alone. That's coaching. And, you know, in the end, you know, if you were playing for Alabama, Nick's saying it, and you know, and you're hoisting that, you know, that championship trophy, you know, you're gonna sit back and say, that was all worth it. I have been in those positions. Again, I'm not a chef. I don't have that, but I've had the football coach do that. I've had other employers who cared really, really tear me down because I had the problem. It was my ego that got in the way. So how do you, when you have some, and a lot of people today are, wow, with the egos, man. So how do you penetrate that? You gotta break it. And if they can't handle that, then it's not the right job for them. But if they care, even a little bit, they may not like it. But eventually they're gonna go, you know what? I did learn something, and I do care. And well, so does that mentor of whoever that person is. They care too. That's how it works. You know, to your point, Carl, those individuals that can't handle it are gonna look back one day and they're gonna say, wow, that really helped me. And maybe it's not gonna be in the present moment, but it's gonna ultimately help them down the road in the next career path that they use, or kind of follow through in. Support for walk and talk media comes from Crab Island Seafood Dip, creating chef-driven crab dips made with real seafood and bold flavor. Learn more at crabislandseafooddip.com. So there was a, I don't remember what movie this was. It was a football movie. And this happened to me in 1989 or whatever it was. And this movie came out not that long ago, maybe 15 years ago, something like that. But ultimately it was like this, the player, the coach made him crawl across the field or something like that, whatever. Well, that happened to me. I had the drive, but I also kind of was disconnected. When you're working with a team, you can't be disconnected, you have to be plugged in. So when the coach says, hey, everybody go, head in or whatever, but not you, Fiddiini, not you. Like what? You know, what are you talking about? Let me get out of here. No, we're gonna do something with you. Okay, it happened to be, like this should have been a movie camera set because it was a rainy day. So the field was just disgusting. You wanted to get the heck out of there. And what I had to do, I had to crab walk the length of the field and back. And I gotta tell you, I was a teenager, I still had the ego as a teenager and I was like, I'm not doing it. He forced me to the ground and made me do it. And I physically was cursing this man the entire way. But somehow I also didn't want to quit on him because I didn't want him to have that over me. It was like the weirdest feeling. It was like this reverse whatever. And do you know, I did it, I went there, went back. I was the most agonizing, it was after a whole hour and a half of practice, whatever it was. And let me tell you something. He helped me up and he was, it was a complete change of personality. And he's like, do you see what you did? Did you see how you finished it? You gotta finish it for the team. And he brought this whole full circle thing. And you know, I carried that with me for, I carried that with me forever. That was a major lesson. When that happens today with some of these other kids, man, like I just feel like they just take their ball and go home or whatever, like did you come out of here? I'm done. Yeah, and you know what? I wanna bring Eric back into the conversation for a second because, you know, I started at Testo just a little over a year ago. And Eric really showed that a team operates a certain way, the operational aspect of different types of cultures is really important in order to get a SOP a certain way. So I'm super, super excited for the show to have Eric now, to be able to bring that component of what food safety really means. We just spent time talking about how we're a family and how you operate as an oil machine. And ultimately that comes back to food safety. So, you know, I'm excited to see what kind of impact this has because, you know, you guys brought it up. You only have 10 episodes left before you hit 200. That's wild, super, super wild, but it's the perfect time to bring in, you know, a different aspect of the industry for your listeners to really just, you know, move that needle of what they're going through in everyday life as chefs. Honestly, well said, couldn't send it better. And I can't believe we're this far along. Most podcasts go like, you know, between one and five episodes. You need this in there, ready? Fun fact, Noma actually did just shut down for Norovirus. So I guess all those barbecue forks and pots and pans that he was using wasn't enough. You should have had Testo. That's true. Oh, did you just look that up? No, I've been holding it and trying to set it in there for some time. So I hope you can edit that somewhere with me. No, I might just leave this in as is, man. That was pretty, that's entertainment right there. Yeah, there's a whole, there's a whole documentary about it and everything is that he got shut down for the Norovirus and then he brought it back again to the number, and when they were the number one restaurant in the world. And then it was like a whole thing where it was called the perfect, I think it's called the perfect storm. I don't mind if I look that up, but yeah. Well, let's talk about something positive for a sec. Where are we having this party? Where are we doing this 200 episode? Beats party? Man, we're doing it on the top of Tampa, man. We're at the 42nd floor up there at the Tampa Club. I'd love for you guys to come, bring the Chef All Stars. Let's break bread, let's have a little round table. Maybe we'll get John to talk. At least get him on camera, right? He's shaking his head. Oh, he's shaking his head, no, no, okay. So it's gonna be a podcast though, right? 200 episode? I don't know, we're gonna do the shindig. Every chef has a mic? No, no, that's dangerous. I can't do that, I can't allow that. No, I don't. I really gotta think about the logistics of this whole thing, but I think how I envision it is, maybe, I don't know, eight, 10, 15 chefs or something like that. You know, culinary contributors, friends of the show, stuff like that. And we just have a nice night, eat well, some cocktails. There will be a video, there will be recording, obviously, there'll be that, yeah. I don't know that we, I don't know, do we do an actual podcast there? I think it's not gonna be a good, I don't think it'll sound good. But I think, but what I do think is the following, that next podcast, without stories, I think that is gonna be good, right? It'll be like, all 200 episodes in one episode because of all the stories. Yeah, basically. I mean, you can't look, yeah, you put all these, you know, these egotistical chefs in one place with some booze and forget about it, all the walls fall down. Do you know what I'm saying? I'm kidding, I'm listening, it'll be fine, I promise. All of your people out there, I'm being facetious, okay? I'm just saying, all right, it's gonna be epic. We know that. So if you're asking me, today was wildly successful. And I wanna just say, first of all, to Aaron, I appreciate you coming out here, yeah, and Testo in the whole nine yards. How was today? Did you guys like today or what? Oh, man. It was a day to remember, that's for sure. I really had a lot of fun. Chef, pleasure meeting you, Carl. John, thank you. Aaron, thank you, how did we find you? Yeah, so you can find Testo at www.testo.com or find us on LinkedIn at Testo North America Solution, as well as Instrumentation, and I am on LinkedIn at Aaron Sharp. Right on, I'm at Blacklam Chef. And Instagram, come check me out, because I'm setting something up in Corpus Christi. Yeah, what is that? What are you doing? Let's talk about it next episode, huh? All right, it's a secret, huh? Corpus Christi, baby, okay, I'm digging it. This is John, I'm gonna ask you for a favor. I just need photography, I need photos, man, okay? I need them, like, pretty quick. This, of course, will be edited and put out for tomorrow, as always. So for you, I need the same kind of workload, okay? Same execution, are you? I don't get to take it, I'm gonna talk. Guys, listen, seriously, I appreciate you both being here. You, man, I mean, you flew in from up north to be here. Sincerely appreciate that, big time. We are out. MUSIC I'm in the kitchen with Charlie Bigham. So what have we got here, Charlie? 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