That's Fire Emblem: Three Houses (feat. Fire Emblem: Three Houses... and Mega Man Star Force)

Hello, welcome to the A-Thirt's a low-key video game podcast. My name, as usual, is Brendan Wigley. I'm Stephen Hilger. Welcome. Welcome back, Brendan. Thank you. Yes. Yeah, I just came back from PAX East, the Penny Arcade Expo East Edition in Boston. It was really fun. It was a really good time. I'm pretty exhausted still, even though I had a full good night's sleep last night. It's a lot of walking. It's a lot of walking. A lot of existing. Yeah, it's a lot of talking to people. The primary reason to go to PAX for me is to just talk to developers nonstop the whole time. Yeah. I love that experience so much. It's really, really, really rewarding. But also this year, we were meeting a lot of people and going to panels and hanging out. A lot of you, our listeners, came up and said hello, which was cool. A lot of people who knew into the Aether, a lot of people who knew WaveLanks, a lot of people who knew .zip. It was really cool. That's awesome. Thanks to everybody who showed up. Thanks to the person who asked us to sign a copy of 13 Sentinels, which was incredible. In my wildest dreams, I never would have imagined that. But yeah, we had a great time. I'm already excited for next year. They already announced when PAX is going to be next year. I'm excited to go. It's going to be great. Yeah, I hope it's not the same weekend as C2E2 again, which I did go to because I sadly couldn't join you at PAX, but I went to C2E2. I only went one day, but it was a lot of fun. But honestly, even just like one day of five and a half hours of walking is quite a lot. It may be a sign of aging, but it also felt like a lot, just objectively. But it was nice. It was a rejuvenating soreness. Yeah, I do need one thing I want to talk about. Was this one like mobile gotcha game that was like the lead sponsor of PAX? There's always one. We went in 2024. It was AFK journey. It was AFK journey. Yes, you're right. Your guess for my game of the year. This year, there was one. It was called, well, they pronounce it Earthlings, but it was spelled the same way we spell Aether. So it was like Aetherlings. Oh, and for some reason it was like so it was so perfectly placed that anytime AJ and I got separated and need to find each other. And I called them. They were like, I'm by their Aetherlings thing again. It's like, oh yeah. All right. And it just became like our North Star over and over again. That's very serendipitous that the Aetherlings were like the meetup point. Yeah, it was so funny. It's like, we'll respawn at the Aetherlings. Yeah, it was like the lead sponsors this year were like that Nintendo who was there with some stuff. Oh, nothing like too wild. It was they just released the Super Mario Brothers Wonder update for Switch 2. So they had like a million setups of the switch to with that there. And they also had some Poco be a stuff and Pokemon champions, which is that like battle like that free to play a Pokemon battling game. OK, yeah, it's interesting. I feel like because I only went once in 2024 when we went together. And I think my first takeaway, my first observation was like, oh, this is like 80 percent indie. Yeah, like I was expecting it to be more half and half or honestly more like 70 30. But it was like the AFK journey, like banner. And then there was a gigantic like FF 14 event happening. Yeah. And other than that, it was like all indie developers was awesome. Yeah. Similar this year. Same case this year. Yeah. Same case this year. Yeah, it was like mostly indies like Nintendo and and I think yeah, Nintendo, Aetherlings and then this one. It was so funny. There's this one other sponsor called I think it was called Animo. And it's this like upcoming Pokemon just rip off, if I'm being completely honest. And it was a huge booth, like the biggest booth at the show floor. And it was labeled as a next generation monster catching video game. And like every single person I talked to about it, like in the industry, and out of the industry, like every person I talked to about it, they were like, that's AI, right? Like everyone is like, this is AI definitely. And they're not telling they're not saying it's AI, but like it really is giving off like this is AI vibes. But they were giving out like this really, really, really big tote bag for free for anyone who played the demo. So it was like slammed at all times, I think, because it was like the easiest way to get a giant tote bag. Yeah. But yeah, it was just like, like this is like must catch most of them on it. Yeah. Let's catch most of them. It's very good. But if you want to hear more about the packs experience, AJ and I recorded a Patreon bonus from the pack show floor on day one after we were there. We had played a good chunk of games. So we talked about all the stuff that we had played in our experience so far. And that will be out today. The day that this episode is out, it is also out on the Patreon feed, which is cool. So you can check that out if you would like to hear more about packs. And then I also think on the Patreon, we probably talked more about packs and also your experience to see to eat to on shore leave, which we're recording later today. Yeah, that'll be fun. But yeah, to do is a great time. I've been going to see to you since 2018. So right when we started the show. Yeah. So for the past like seven or eight years, I've only missed like one or two. But there's always like one or two big things that everyone is cosplaying and everyone is like, yeah, making fan art of an artist alley. And it was interesting how this year was like kind of just an even spread. And it's cool to see what the evergreen things are. It's a lot of the things that you and I especially love, like more on this later. But there is still so much Three Houses artwork. It's like unbelievable. And Baldur's Gate 3 as well, which makes more sense. It's more recent. Totally. But like it does feel like Persona Three Houses and Baldur's Gate 3 are kind of like you can always sell prints of that stuff, which I mean, I'm happy about. One of one of the video game stores that I actually go to a lot in Manhattan called Video Games New York. It's like a retro store. They had a booth where they were selling a bunch of retro stuff and they were blaring the Persona Five vinyl the whole time, which I kind of loved. Like every time I walked by, it was like literally just playing beneath the mask. It was really fun. And then a lot of people there just like buying really expensive VMUs or whatever. Yeah. Are there just a question before we move on to actually talking about stuff? Not that we're not talking about stuff. Are are there any video game companies that show up at C2E2? Like, are there any game setups? Because like at Comic Con, New York Comic Con specifically, like usually I can bet on Capcom showing up and like having like one or two things there. Sometimes I'll see like, like I remember IO Interactive was there with Hitman when that was coming out. Like every once in a while, they have setups for video games, not very often, but like sometimes do they have any at C2E2 this year? Not that I've seen. I don't want to say no, because maybe I miss them, but there is a gigantic. Well, Ben Dynamico is there to sell one piece stuff. Oh, yeah. Like when you walk in, there is a gigantic like poster of Nami and like people playing the one piece card game and like all it's a lot. It is interesting to see how much it's pivoted. Like in 2018, I would say it was like half, you know, Marvel DC superheroes, half like anime video game stuff. And now it feels like there's almost no Marvel or DC stuff like at all. Like there's a lot of comics, obviously, and there's still cosplay, but like it's telling that the few pieces of superhero related artwork I saw. Unless you're like a like an artist from Marvel or DC and you have your own booth and you're like signing copies, that still happens all the time. Like, yeah, but the sort of like artist alley, like fan art, like the only prints of Marvel I saw were about Marvel Marvel rivals. So it's like it's it's gone to the point where like only the Marvel video game surfaces, which again, I'm happy about because that's the stuff I like. But yeah, there are some like retro stores that will have stuff for sale. Like I got Super Castlevania 4 from a booth one year. But yeah, I haven't like that's the thing about C2E2 is like the best and worst thing about it is that because it's not quite as like a big commercial event as like New York or even San Diego, people aren't really going there to like announce things. Right. So like it lacks maybe that kind of excitement. But there's still like a huge attendance and like there are big people who go there. But it's usually not tied to like a sort of announcement or like an event other than maybe like for comics and for like more kind of collectible stuff. Like the biggest thing that happened in recent memory was last year, all the hobbits were there. Oh, fun. And that may be tied to some, I don't maybe rings of power had something going on. But like it did kind of just feel like, hey, wouldn't you like to meet Elijah Wooden, friends? Yeah. So that's kind of the vibe of C2E2 is like, yeah, it's like it's usually the panels and stuff are a little bit more grounded. So you have the benefit of it feeling like a fun big event, but it's not quite as overwhelming. I would be curious though, maybe there next year, I'm going to make more of an effort to see like, what are the panels? Who's there? Because usually I just sort of walk around and then I go to Artis Ali and spend $200. Or I dress up as Dick Gumshoe and I'm only noticed when I'm standing still eating pizza. And then someone with like tears in her eyes was like, can I please take a picture? I love Gumshoe. I love that. I need to be one. Yeah. I need to like look lost and eat pizza because otherwise I just look like a really tired guy. You know, you need to see the red pen and the gauze to know it's Dick Gumshoe. Yeah. Put enough people in a room and some people will have the same birthday. Put thousands and thousands and thousands of people in the same Expo hall and at least one person will love Dick Gumshoe. Ace Attorney is also like, it's like the it's just rare enough. Like you'll always find stickers and art of it. And there's always like at least a dozen people cosplaying as it. Yeah. I was surprised there wasn't more. Like there was Expedition 33 stuff. That was the thing I was expecting to see everywhere, but there really kind of wasn't. Oh, there was a ton of packs. I'm sure. Maybe because it's more specifically video game related. There were definitely prints and I saw a few like my L's, but there wasn't like a dominant force in the same way. There was a service dog at Pax, who was dressed up as one of the exhibition 33 people, like with the the beret and the striped shirt. Yes. And sunglasses. And this dog was carrying a baguette in its mouth around the Expo floor. That rocks, which I loved. And as I was following this dog trying to find AJ at the Aetherlings booth, no joke. And while it happened, somebody stopped and saluted the dog and said, for those who come after it, I was like, damn, this dog is so much like just exuding charisma from the sunglasses and the baguette. Like it was incredible. Actually, a friend of mine that I ran into that hung out with us. I went with friend of the show, Sadie, but hi, Sadie. Hi, Sadie. We were driven by a mutual friend later on, and they were dressed up as like the French outfit with the baguette. And the baguette snapped in half. And we also were like, for those who come after us, we like tried to reckon with like, where do we leave this piece of it? Sadie has like an especially good and haunting spambton cosplay that I hope comes back. Oh, yeah. There were a few tennis. There was like a few Delta Rune costumes as well. Anyway, I'll save more of my thoughts on this for for short leave, but it was a lot of fun. I love C2V2. It's a great time. Yeah, I would say like I Pax is my favorite convention I've ever been to. Definitely C2V2 is a pretty close second. Like it's very chill in a way I always wished New York Comic Con was. That's kind of Chicago's like a whole vibe. It's sort of like if you want like a less stressful New York, it's kind of like what Chicago is unless the plot of Resident Evil Requiem is taking place there. In which case, true. Yes. But like even a rest in peace, the Pitchfork Music Festival was a similar thing where like, I mean, like Lollapalooza is like, I think the biggest year. And that is like, you know, half a million, two million people like in attendance. That is like a capital F festival, like in terms of just like the energy of it. But Pitchfork was like, oh, this is like a big deal, but it's way more spread out. And like it's not quite as overwhelming. I remember Pitchfork having a similar vibe to C2V2 where it's like, this is as big as I want it to be. You know, that's a nice feeling to have that middle ground. Yeah, that's understandable. Let's take a break and we come back. I think I think we're going to talk about video games is the plan. I think today is going to be a very recent like recent nostalgia, you know, is sort of like looking back on maybe a decade before and our old stomping grounds of reunion, if you will, kind of going back to school. Yeah. OK, see you in a bit. Bye. We have another tidying from the eighth or this one is to Jake and from Rick. And it goes like this. Happy birthday, Jake. My dearest do weasel, my rocket league captain, my monster hunter mentor. Hope you have an incredible 31st birthday. Wish I could be back in town to celebrate you with the friends and family. Much love to you, the Mrs. and the young lad. All the best, Rick. Happy birthday, Jake, from me and Steven and AJ as well. And thank you, Rick, for supporting the show. You can head over to shop.intthecast.online. If you would also like to pick up a personal message, a tidying from the eighth or thanks so much. Brendan, so I have had kind of a oxymoron of a week for this show and that I've been playing a lot of stuff, but not specifically for Into the Aether, which honestly tends to sometimes be the best way to do it. You know, just like whatever happened, that's the episode. Yeah, totally. But we're two weeks away from recording the Vita episode. So like I'm playing a lot of Vita stuff. I want to keep most of that, you know, to myself until we do that episode. I've also been I don't really talk about this at all, but I have a YouTube channel called Memory Card Manuscript, where I make short video essays about games and game design. And I'm working on one right now about permadeath as a mechanic and like when I think it works and when it doesn't. It's been fun to put together, but I've been capturing a lot of footage for that video and playing a lot of Vita stuff. So it's like I've been doing a lot of playing a lot of games, but like not with the intention of like, this is what I'm going to bring up. But just sort of organically by doing both of those things, I've been playing a lot of roguelites and specifically the era of roguelites or roguelites from like the early 2010s, the Spelunky era. So stuff like Rogue Legacy, Spelunky, Sheeran the Wanderer, Nuclear Throne. And it made me realize like, oh, these are games that are not old enough to be retro, but a lot of them are now a decade old and they they definitely feel from a different era. And given how much we're in a new era of roguelites with Ballotro and I mean, every year it feels like there's another big one like Ball Pit stuff like that. I'm curious, like as someone who's been a big fan of the genre, I don't want to say before it became popular, but I will. Like someone who's been interested in this style of game for a very long time. I'm curious like what your experience has been like revisiting a lot of the same games on Vita. And kind of observing like where the genre is now versus where it was like in the early 2010s. Totally. Yeah. No, that's a good question. Yeah. So I guess very, very, very briefly because if you have listened to the show before, you know, all of this already. But yeah, I've been playing roguelites for a very long time. Like I think the one that like really hit me was the Flash version of Binding of Isaac before it was like remade from the ground up. And I played so much of that. But yeah, all those games that you just mentioned were like formative games for me. I want to say growing up, but that was like, you know, late teens, early 20s probably, which is still growing up. I think they also you found them at a time when I think you were starting to really think critically about games. So that was around when you and I started working for that website. And like when you and I start to do stuff together, you know, regarding video games. And I feel like I equate that era of roguelites to you, that you may equate like an era of JRPGs to me. Like that kind of feels like your genre totally in the sense of like what you look for in games. Yeah, I remember it like thinking about this specific period of my life. Like the the one thing that always always always stands out to me is this three month span where I was subletting an apartment in Patterson, New Jersey for like almost no money. And the only things I owned were a mattress, a lamp, my laptop and clothes and like not even that many clothes. And I had all like there wasn't even a closet in the room that I stayed in. So all of my clothes were actually in the pantry in the kitchen. And I just spent like day in and day out in that room with just a mattress and a lamp and my laptop playing roguel legacy over and over and over again. Like that was like that was like my life for a little bit there. And I was like, oh, no, I had a Kindle also. I was reading books on my Kindle. But like when I when I say that these games are formative, it's like that's actually the only thing I did for a little bit there was just play these games. So I think there are a couple of different avenues to go down this conversation with. Like on one hand, I think one of the interesting things is that we've seen sequels to almost all the games you just mentioned. Yeah, which have all tried to come at the idea of a sequel to a roguelike in a different way, some more successfully than others, I would say. And I think in general, like the thing that really aligned the roguelikes that I really connected with early on, I think was like they were really hardcore, you know, like the binding of Isaac and Spelunky in general. Or like those two in particular, I kind of point out as like, you know, prototypes or the like foundational elements that have inspired everything that's kind of come after. In some ways, you know, there are obviously games that inspire those ones, but I think those two in general kind of acted as blueprints for a lot of people. Like there are specific elements of Spelunky that you can, you know, tie the red string on the board to like Balotro. For example, just like the way in which people got so good at Spelunky that they started to do like high score runs. And the score was just like, how much money did you get by the end of your run? Like that kind of thing goes directly into this like arcade roguelike world that we're in now where there are so many games specifically trying to, you know, we've talked about parlor rogues as, you know, what Balotro is like smashing the roguelike genre into something else that already exists like poker or like roulette or whatever. But I think at the core of it, the thing that really works about the era of roguelike that we're in right now and these ones that take off on that level like Balotro are just like the arcade score chase element of it. Like it's optimizing for that. And it's sitting there and like doing the math and having that pay off. Like that's a big part of what roguelikes are now on one hand. On the other hand, you have things like Hades, right, which are like introducing a more focused and cohesive narrative into this genre, which basically existed to just be played endlessly with really no semblance of story at all. And that's actually one of the things that I found was interesting about Rogue Legacy when that first came out was like, Rogue Legacy does introduce some narrative elements in there. Like there are little scraps of paper that you find throughout your runs every once in a while. And it's like keeping track of which ones you found and which ones you haven't. So you kind of do get a little bit of a story happening over time. Not much, but like enough that it was interesting in I think 2012 or 2013 when that game came out. And honestly, that was like one of the things that kind of turned me off the most about Rogue Legacy 2 when that came out was like how much of that kind of became the focus. I think inspired by games like Hades, like they really tried to kind of double up on that. I think one of the things that like really, really, really stuck with me about this era, though, is like my experience with Splunky on the Vita, which we will talk about on the Vita episode. But like, yeah, that's about as formative of video gaming experiences I could have. Like I've really just sat there playing the Vita, playing Splunky on the Vita over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Like not even like not always even like watching stuff in the background or doing it. It was like I was just sitting like on my bed or on my couch, just playing Splunky until I had kind of seen everything that was possible in that video game, you know, and watching speed runs and like learning about like the eggplant run and all this other stuff. And I think every roguelike I play is in some way like shaped by that experience. You know, I look at every single one in its relation to Splunky as this kind of like, you know, not just formative for me, but formative for the industry kind of thing. So I think when I when I'm looking at how that game has inspired so many other ones and has rippled out into all these other things, like, you know, we now think of Hades as a formative experience, but like the amount of ties from Hades to Splunky are, you know, off the charts. But now we have all these Hades likes that are also jumping out of the woodwork here and there, you know, all these other games that are, you know, doing this like isometric combat roguelike. I saw like three or four of them at PAX this year. It's just like kind of become commonplace. And what I think is really interesting is the lack of games that are specifically like trying to go for Splunky's crown. Like that's actually one of the things that I found most interesting, like considering how important that game is to the industry and to like the indie game video space at large and to this genre. Not that many people have been like, I'm going to make a Splunky like like that. That really hasn't happened. It's it kind of feels like Zelda in that way where it's like its impact is felt, but few dare to emulate it too closely. Right. It's also, I think, kind of serendipitous that Splunky 2 comes out the same day or same era. Yeah, it was the same week at least. Yeah. Same week as Hades one, which like it was interesting to sign. Well, you know, we often talk about like game sequels as like, is it the best of what has happened so far? Or is it a new direction? Right. And you got both of the same. Yeah. Or it's like, here's kind of a perfection of Splunky. And then here's like something entirely new. Yeah, there's there's a lot of different there are a lot of different avenues to go down, I think, with this conversation. But I'm curious, like, what are you what are you picking up on? What's what do you what do you think so far? Yeah, I think of that era, I think not to like rank them because they're all really interesting games. But it was interesting going back and playing them because this is like of this era, this I don't even know what to call it because obviously, Roguelites, pre date, Spelunky. Yeah. But this it feels like it feels like the era before Spelunky and its contemporaries resembles like an NES era of the genre. And then we kind of enter like a Super Nintendo adjacent era. And I feel like now we're in like a weird PS1 era of Roguelites. We're like, my my parallel here, this might sound like nonsense, but my parallel here is like with RPGs. We're like a lot of JRPG specifically in the early 90s were like very, very comfortable with fantasy and being like, we're just going to do D&D meets King Arthur drag quest, basically. Yeah. And then once you get to the late 90s, you get FF seven and then everything changes. And suddenly every RPG is not just like comfortable with the classics, but is trying to have a unique spin on it in some way. Yeah. And it's pulling from different source material. And I feel like we're in an era now where a lot of Roguelites do kind of pitch themselves as it's this meets this. It's like it's kind of inherently a mashup for X, which is fine. It's interesting. I think we're in some ways maybe in a sort of transitional era in that sense, where like we're trying to find the next kind of game that everything is kind of in orbit of. But I think what what stands out to me, the game I found myself kind of fully pulled back by of this era is Spelunky. Yeah. And I think what stands out about Spelunky and you've made this point before is that Spelunky is like purely driven by intrinsic motivation, which is, I think, a much rarer design philosophy in modern Roguelites. Yeah. Yeah, because Spelunky is a rogue like, you know, it is, it is, you know, it doesn't have the obviously like the turn based combat, you know, enemies move and you move stuff from literally rogue. But it is a rogue like in the sense that there is no progress carrying over between your runs at all. The only thing propelling you is your own knowledge of the video game and how you get better at it. Maybe somebody out there could argue it's a rogue light because you unlock different characters, but you don't. I mean, it doesn't. They're not better than one another. Just like in a static way. It doesn't change the way you play the video game at all. So I really think of Spelunky as like a very hardcore rogue like, which does mean I think as as you're getting to like. Intrinsic motivation is the only thing that will get you to keep playing that game. I actually know a joke like at Pax. I was talking to Kate from No Small Games, another podcast, just kind of talking about games that I were formative for me and games that she might like based on, you know, some of the stuff that I was hearing. And I was recommending Spelunky specifically. And the way that I recommended it was like, give it more time than you think it deserves because you will start, you will start playing it. And you'll be like, I don't get why this is one of the most important games of all time. And then eventually it will get its hooks into you in a way that you kind of can't wrap your head around until you have beat Olmick. You know, well, I feel like what it really captures is that sort of retro design philosophy of like yearning for secrets. And, you know, like playing a game like Super Nintendo was like a little bit before my time. I feel like my primary years were with the later consoles. But I played Super Nintendo growing up specifically Super Mario World when I was like four or five with my family. And a big thing that kept us in that game was like, oh my God, if you like do this in this level, you just find a new level. And there's a whole world of Yoshi's that exists that like you don't need to do. But and it's like, it feels like Derek, you made a whole game about that feeling. Yes. Where it's like Spelunky is. I mean, you're literally like an Indiana Jones explorer spelunking into this cave to find its mysteries. And so like there are kind of two things going on. There's like the score chase, like how much gold did you get? How many treasures did you get? How deep did you get? And then there's also learning how you can interact with the other beings in this place, whether that's like learning, you know, about the ghost or the shopkeepers behavior or like the creatures that are there. And I think, I mean, overall, like so in this era, the the rogue lights that I played the most when they came out were FTL and actually just FTL. I was going to say into the breach, but that was much later. And FTL is interesting because that is that is a game that is kind of a halfway. I don't know if I could say if that's like an intrinsically designed or extrinsically designed game, because on one hand, the upgrades you're getting are all things outside of like your skill. But it is all through like inventory and system management that you're able to get from point at point B. And you do have to kind of learn the logic of the game to get far. But the the times in which you will win a run and FTL, even if you know what you're doing or few and far between, it really is more about the sort of atmosphere and the experience of playing and just seeing new things. And I feel like FTL, in my opinion, is one of the earliest like narratively driven rogue lights. Because even though there isn't really like a in your face story, it does feel like it's inviting you to tell your own tale with like what little snippets you're given here and there. Kind of like a tabletop role playing. And I mean, they go kind of further in that direction with the stuff that games does with into the breach where like the pilots do have these little bursts of personality. Right. And there's kind of a more harrowing story happening. So like, even though you don't really know who Henry Kwan is, like you will mourn when you lose your specific Henry Kwan, when you can't travel back in time after you lose a run. So I think what's interesting is like this era of rogue lights, I think is overall more about like the players' desire to get better and to learn the world. Yes. And they're also way less afraid of losing you, like being off putting to the player. Right. And I'm not saying that this is better or worse. Like, I think there's a lot of really great. You can argue we're in like a golden era in some capacity for this genre. The only thing I'm kind of a little bit like unsure about. I love Ballotro. I think it's a perfect game. I worry that the lesson of Ballotro is like the slot machine sensory overload of it, where it's just like things going up and things exploding and it's basically just like a pinball machine. Yeah. And it's more about that and more about chaotic possibilities and less about like, am I am I growing at all as a player? Like, is this really just like another pole of the slot machine? Or am I able to like actually learn how to navigate a run? I'm not saying that like I have an issue with probability or anything. Like, I think the best rogue lights have a happy middle ground. Because I think if it's like spelunkies as far as you can get in the intrinsic motivation before it's boring, like it's like it has just enough variety that it's like, you know, you can't go further than that unless you're playing like rogue itself. Yeah. But I do I do kind of I think the one thing I would maybe like bring forward or remind people of from this like 2010s era of real life. It's like it's OK to like I don't have the confidence to be like, this is not going to be for everyone. We might lose some people at the door, but like the people that stick around are going to have a very rewarding experience. Yeah. Like you said with spelunk, give it more time than you think it deserves. I worry that like just because of how many more games are on steam these days that like the design is to keep people hooked and less about like having a rewarding like learning curve to it. Yeah. I wonder how much of that really does come down to the actual design of the video game and how much of that is like a messaging thing. Because I. Yeah. No, that's a good point. I think one of the things also that's worth mentioning is like around this time is also the rise of Miyazaki led souls games. Right. Like yes. This is also when demon souls and dark souls are coming out and starting to enter the public eye. And I think, you know, by the time Dark Souls 2 comes out and we start getting into like, OK, we're going to have, you know, the bloodborns of the world and stuff around was that 2015, I think is when that game comes out. Yeah. I think it was bloodborn. You know, that that starts to become enough of a genre in its own right that people start diving into the world of like we're making ultra hard games for people who are like sickos and freaks. And I guess like at the end of the day, you can still make a game like Splunky. I think you just need to message it to the player in that way, like almost like give them a little bit of a heads up that it's going to be like that, because I think you're right that there are so many games right now that like if you're not capturing an audience very quickly, it's very likely that they'll bail. You know, it's unfortunately the same as like short form content or the idea of like making YouTube video and making sure the first 30 seconds is like interesting. Yeah. So you don't so you don't like lose people and they don't click away. Like the same is true of video games as well. And I think a lot of work can be done up front to probably subvert that feeling of like this is too hard for me and I don't get it. And I'm going to bail. You know, I think there is like a little bit of like a brain activation that's like, hey, dude, can you get better at this? I bet not. And it's like, I could get better at this, even though the game tells me no. And then you sit there and you do it until you're better at it. Yeah, I think that's actually something that I love about Sheeran the Wanderer is they really go out of their way to set up that like you're going to lose most of the time. And it's kind of funny. Yeah. They make light of it in a way that like it becomes enjoyable to sometimes see like, OK, I just ate shit that run and I have to just keep trying. And I think I was thinking about how like 2011. I mean, Dark Souls comes out in 2011, but you're right that I think it isn't until Dark Souls 2 comes out that like the souls like formula is becoming mainstream. And there's sort of now a like shared vocabulary of that style of game, which I think kind of pairs well with a roguelike because they're both all about learning from failure in that way. See, I mean, I think like, you know, I like that Balotro has so many chaotic things that you end up finding unforeseen combinations. And I really like and appreciate that Hades is built in a way that like you kind of just get better as you play it. And it's like sort of a invisible. It's a seamless combination of like you are getting better and you're also like upgrading the character and getting more stuff that will just make the game easier as well. Yes. Like I'm not arguing against having like difficulty or accessibility options. I just think like sort of I think it's a confidence thing, you know, and that's a harder thing to to find the words for. But like Spelunky is like an abundantly confident game where like it just throws you in, it's got great music and you're going to fall and break all your bones like the first time you play it. Yeah. And you're not even sure what you're trying to like find or experience or do. Right. And like. Is there even an end to this is a question you'll probably be asking yourself for a while. Yeah. So that's I think that's the kind of piece I would like to see come back is like the mystery mystery and confidence are the two words that come to mind. Yeah. I think one of the things too is is I made a list on backlogged. I don't even know when it was a long time ago. That's just like the list of the best roguelikes I've ever played in my life. And I think it's really interesting. Like I'll just read through the list really quick. Yeah, yeah. It's it's not that many. Binding of Isaac. This is in release state order. Binding of Isaac, Spelunky, FTL, roguelagacy, downwell, into the breach, Slay the Spire, Dicey Dungeons, Hades, Lupiro, Returnal, Slice and Dice, Vampire Survivors, Tiny Rogues, Dead Cells and Balatru. There are more that I probably could add since I made that list. But that's that's the list as it stands when I made it. But I really think like if I'm looking at the pivotal games in this like indie roguelike or roguelike genre, it's like Binding of Isaac and Spelunky. And I would argue FTL also. So that takes us to 2012. And then it's not until literally eight years later that we get Hades, which I think is like maybe the next one. Oh, no, Slay the Spire, I think is the next one. So that would be what? Yeah, but it's around the same time. It's like a year before Hades. So like it is like the start of a new decade. Yeah. But like, you know, not to disparage all the other games that were in between all of those. But I do think it is a genre that, you know, every like six years, we get like the one that becomes the thing that inspires everything else. Yeah. Which I think is very interesting. The one real outlier here that I think about all the time is Returnal. Like Returnal being like here is a, you know, this is literally Sony, right? Makers of the PlayStation being like, we're going to throw triple A money behind a roguelike. And I'm always amazed in this world. And I've said this on the show before, but I think it's worth reiterating in this conversation in this world where every single company is chomping at the bit to try to make a game that people play forever and interact with forever. The answer is always live service for executives. And the answer is never roguelikes, which is like in some ways probably the safer option. Yeah. I mean, it is interesting that like God of War Ragnarok had that roguelike expansion. I'm not sure if that really stuck. It's like, kind of came and went a little bit, but it's interesting when triple A companies look to what's happening in the indie world for inspiration. And we're seeing more, you know, there was that Prince of Persia game that came out. That was really fun. That was sort of like a 2D plane, Metroidvania. The rogue Prince of Persia. They're even doing that in God of War as well, whatever that one that just shadow dropped. But we're in a really cool era for the genre. I'm glad it's like this was like percolating in this time, but it wasn't quite as the fact that Ballotro is again, I don't want to like give too much like glamour to the game awards. But like seeing the Ballotro theme be played by that orchestra alongside FF7 rebirth was like really cool. It was like amazing to see them put in the same category, which is almost evidence why it's silly. Because like how do you like that's different mediums at a certain point? Like how do you compare FF7 rebirths to Ballotro? But it was cool to be like, oh, this style of game is now like literally the game of the year for a lot of people. So, yeah, no, but it's been cool to go back to this era and to see like not where it began, but where I think it kind of started to take its modern shape. Yeah, totally. And now we're in this space where I feel like, you know, it's not everything, obviously, that's a little hyperbolic. But I do feel like everything we see is like a Hades like or a Ballotro like it's like kind of kind of space. Or like a vampire survivors, which I don't know if that even counts as a rogue light. But it has that. I think it does. Choose. Yeah, the Choose 3 power up thing. It was interesting playing Nuclear Throne because that kind of feels the most like a vampire survivors of that era. But that one, it's I feel like the thing I really notice is that like the upgrade system has become crucial in modern games. Like choosing your boon, choosing your card and say the spire, choosing your upgrade and vampire survivors. Like the Choose of three every time you like beat a rumor level up is like that's the design. And in this era, Splunky, you get nothing. Right. You can buy items, which may or may not help you. Isaac, you get one thing. And a lot of it can can overlap in weird ways that are not necessarily helpful. Right. Very frequently, the thing in Isaac is like, should I take this? Yes. And in Nuclear Throne, like there are upgrades that are helpful, but they're like very, very specific. Yeah. And usually won't super help unless you're like building around something. Yeah. Like the most helpful thing I found was like, and usually there's some kind of trade off like like rogue legacy. You know, when you have a new generation, it's usually a bunch of traits that are pros and cons. Yeah. Pros and cons. Yeah. So yeah, it's interesting how much more like upgrade centric the genre has become in that way. Yeah. Which kind of connects to the extrinsic design. Totally. Yeah. Choose of three options has become like a meme at this point. Right. What if one game was like, we're just we're going to give you five options every time you level up? I honestly, I feel like that's happened because like there are other games where it's like, choose between two options and choose between four options. And even still, people are always in the comments or in like Twitch chat being like, choose between four options. You know, it's like, yeah, just the idea of choosing between options, like a shop in between levels in a run or something is like, I think, I think becoming a meme because of how much of a standard it's become, which I think once again, makes this the perfect time to like deviate. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And again, it's like that works. There's a reason why everyone does it. And it's not a bad thing when something becomes established. But that, like you said, it's the perfect opportunity to find what the next landmark thing is. Yeah. I mean, when you think about like, I sometimes think about the popularity of Dark Souls and how we've talked about how Dark Souls is almost a like counterpunch to Skyrim. Where Skyrim is like a game that's like a total power fantasy. It tells you exactly where to go on any quest you do. Everywhere you go, the world is kind of waiting for you to be there and to give you something fun to do. Yeah. And Dark Souls is like the complete opposite in that like the world doesn't care you're there. You have to like prove why you should be there and they don't tell you anything. Yeah. I also, I mean, even beyond Skyrim that, you know, I've seen a lot of those videos lately of like, what if Luigi's Mansion was a modern game? And it's like Luigi, you know, like you're at full health or whatever. Oh yeah. They're saying everything to you. I was playing for that video I mentioned about permadeath. I was capturing footage of Mass Effect and I was like, it felt like that video playing the beginning of Mass Effect 2. They're like, go here and get ammo and reload your gun, Shepard. Shepard, go down the hall. And it's like, I do think that in a lot of AAA games, at least in that sort of like late 2000s, early 2010s, games were starting to get a little bit more railroaded as they were getting more cinematic. Because you kind of have to, at least at that time, like if you wanted to have sort of a narrative driven cinematic experience, it kind of had to be more on the rails. And so Dark Souls, I think, basically, you know, it's not news to say that like what becomes popular is usually like in conversation with the moment. And like, what is the established design? What is maybe starting to get a little bit tired? What can we do differently? And I think we're due for like, I mean, I guess literally this year, if it's every six years, you know, if Hades was 2020, maybe this year is the year we get a new direction. Maybe it's the Adventures of Elliot somehow. Maybe it's the Adventures of Elliot. There's nothing he can't do. Honestly, if I had to call my shot early and I will, I think it might be Saros, which is the new housemark. Sony AAA, it's like, from what I've seen from the preview coverage that came out last week, it seems like they learned a lot from Returnal. And like even in the preview space, people are like, this is a lot better than Returnal, which I think is interesting. And that's this year? That's this year. I think that's next month. That's exciting. This is like, I think I talked to you off the show about speaking of like every X years theories. Yeah, I felt like since 2017, every three years feels like an especially great year for video game releases. Yeah, like 2017 is what it is 2020, 2023. And now this year, like I've pretty much felt every year we've done this show that like there's no shortage of great stuff. Right. But there are just like every so often there are years where it's like, oh, wow, like this, this feels really special. There's like an energy to what's happening right now. Yeah. Yeah, we even said, I think in the Goaty episode last year, like last year was one of those years where your Goaty list is a personality test more than it is. Like, yes, agreed upon thing that basically everyone just is like, yep, that's it. That's the number one. Yeah. Yeah, like there's like there, there's an Elden Ring year, for example, although that was an interesting year because other than Elden Ring, it was a personality test. It was like, what's your number two? Yes. But I feel like this year is just already off to an especially strong start and it will be, it will be really fun. Like last year was great, but I felt like putting my list together. I remember I had like 10 honorable mentions and I felt like there were a lot of games I felt very positive about. Or there were a lot of games that I really liked, but there were only a handful that I like loved loved. And this year is already different. Yeah. As evidenced by the last few weeks being about the same three games over and over again. Yeah. This year is very different. I have 20 games in my Goaty 2026 list already. And it's the end of March. What's next? Like Monster Hunter Story's 3. I'm excited to get to that's out already. I'm just waiting until after tax season. Okay. Well, I have seven games in my Goaty list so far, but still, I mean, that's it's only March as of today. It's only March. Anyway, anything else that you want to say about this sort of Vita Prep roguelite era we were discussing or do you want to move on? I'll the last point I'll make. Yeah, it's the hill I will die on is one of the first blog posts I wrote when I started a blog was a post called Good Sudoku is a roguelike. And it was an argument. First of all, for Good Sudoku being a roguelike, Good Sudoku being the mobile game by Zach Gage. That's like teaching you how to play Sudoku and has like daily challenges and kind of like generates its own puzzles and stuff. But also for an expansion, a domain expansion of how this word is used and how we describe games. And like, I think that the generally agreed upon definition of roguelike actually includes a lot more games than people think are roguelikes in the same way. Like I find like the the JRPG framing. You really you ask people what they really mean by that and it's like turn based combat. But then they also will say like Kingdom Hearts, but they won't say Elden Ring. And I'm like, OK, well, there's a lot going on in here, you know, where there's it's like it's very messy. And I think I think if you if you follow me down this rabbit hole, everything can be a roguelike. And that's yeah, you and I are in agreement in that like I think some people are very specific about what counts as a genre, which I get on some level of being like this is what I'm expecting and what I want. But I think it's always more limiting to do that than to to I mean, genre should keep up with it should keep up with creativity, not box it in. Yes. In the sense that like genre is in real time adjusting vocabulary to reflect what is currently happening and act as sort of like a general signpost rather than like a box. We throw toys inside. Yeah. You know, because you're right. It's like JRPG can mean so many different things and usually means turn based combat party RPG. And I think I mean, even the role playing game like in RPG itself, we're basically in the era that means as much as indie rock does where it's like, you know, it's more of like an aesthetic at a certain point or just an arbitrary label because like how many games would be universally considered RPGs that have no semblance of role playing. Like in the title itself, like, you know, Dragon Quest is like one of the foundational RPGs, like you're not really ever role playing as the character. You know, yeah, just in the early ones. Anyway, yeah, I agree with you that I think genre should be flexible and I'm really just excited. I think it was it was cool reflecting on this era more for just the feeling of like, oh, even in recent history, this has changed so dramatically. Yes. And it makes me excited to see where it can go next. Yeah. So it was less about like, oh, it was better back then because honestly, I think on average, there are probably more rogue lights that I like coming out now than there were then. Like I like Spelunky and FTL personally, like a lot more than Binding of Isaac or Rogue Legacy just subjectively. Yeah. But like that doesn't mean they aren't all equally important and have led to where we are now. Yeah. So yeah, we figured it out. We figured it out. That's that's everything you need to know about rogue likes in 37 minutes. Like, comment, subscribe for more. Let's take a break and we'll come back and talk about other games. Bye bye. See you then. Brendan. Hello. I've become a parody of myself and I've also been playing Fire Empty Houses. I didn't plan this. Yeah. I heard the church bells and I ended up back at the Academy. Yeah. Wow, Gary Mock. My old stomping grunts. Like I mentioned earlier, I was recording footage for that video and part of the footage I needed was three houses and I underestimated the pull of like even just playing that game for footage fully pulled me back in, especially considering Fortune's Weave is on the horizon. There was that leak that it may be coming out in the summer. I've just been kind of fully, I'm never not into Fire Emblem, but there are sort of periods where it's like a low ember and then like a, you know, active can fire. And we're sort of like. You said that I was about to accuse you of not being into Fire Emblem. Yeah, exactly. I've never. Sight off the allegations. Yes, exactly. So and I also dawned on me that I haven't, I technically haven't done all of the routes. So I'm finally in earnest trying to do the Silver Snow route because there are the routes for each house I've done, of course, but there's technically two routes for the Black Eagles, one of which is the church route and I haven't done that one. So New Game Plus, I picked up Sylvain, Leonie, Lycephia and Mercedes and it's us against the world, which I'm so excited for. But man, it's just so like, I don't know what I can say that I haven't already said over the last seven years since it's come out. But it is really amazing. Yeah, I came out 2019. Isn't that crazy? So it sucks. Yeah. Wow. But returning to it and returning to a game like there aren't that many games that I'm that intimately familiar with that I kind of go back to so often, you know, like, I feel like of the other big RPGs, I'll play them, you know, like I'll I'll I'll revisit Mass Effect every handful of years. But like, it's usually like a short burst, like I played it in college and then we played it a handful of years ago for our bonus. And in both times, it was like all I could do or think about, but then I kind of can't touch it for a long time. Yeah. And I mean, I haven't played Three Houses. The last time I was playing it, like, actively was probably three or four years ago for when I was streaming my Maddening Run. Yeah. There's a lot of fun. But I even that was like kind of a weird, like, challenge version of it. Because like, if you've played it, you know, Maddening is not just like slightly harder than hard difficulty. It is like a different game. It is a reason they call it that, folks. Yeah. It's I'll say that it's like not unless you are a true freak like me, it is not an enjoyable way to play the game. And I think if there are any issues with the many overlapping systems in Three Houses, Maddening, while a fun challenge, if you love the game, it does kind of break a lot of it in half. Like it renders a lot of options. Like you basically can't use axes minus one or two characters because of how inaccurate they are. Because accuracy gets so like you become so inaccurate that like you have to basically rely on bows and lances for the most part. So the stuff like that, and it makes me think about like it's easy to say, make this more challenging. It's significantly harder to know in what way do you do that? Because like a lot of games will default to the enemies having more health or something. Right. Um, I'm not sure what happens in Maddening, but I feel like it is like a big change in what the enemy's stats are that kind of puts a lot of pressure on every other system. Yeah. But regardless of all that, I'm not playing. I'm not playing on now. Yeah. Just hard. A classic hard classic. I've never played on normal because I'm a freak. And hard is not that bad, honestly. Like compared to other fire emblems, I would say like normal is probably closer to easy and hard is like generally pretty doable minus like the missions that are obviously going to be hard on any difficulty. Like on three in Three Houses specifically, there's like the reunion battle is always going to be really hard. Yes. That's like sort of the beginning of part two and is sort of like loudly announcing like the stakes have risen and you slowly kind of get your full party back. But yeah, I'm playing on on hard classic, which means perma death is on and also new game plus to the point where like I like having a handful of recruits. You can recruit characters from other houses. You have the like eight characters in the house you choose. Then you can if you like meet certain stat requirements or certain support levels with other characters, you can invite them to join your house, which I feel like that's something we talked about a lot when the game came out in our various episodes about it. But as I'm like now learning more about narrative design in my own pursuits, it kind of blows me away how much dialogue there is to account for like all the different possibilities. Like yeah, in how like in one play through characters can literally fall in love in another play through that character is the one who kills the other. And there's like dialogue for both scenarios. Like you can definitely tell it maybe like slightly bit off more than it could shoot. And like it feels like there are occasional remnants of like an even more ambitious game where like, for example, there's a point in part two of Crimson Flower where you can recruit Lyceithia off the battlefield if you spare her. And I'm like, that only happens like here. I'm wondering if this was like a larger idea that was kind of scrapped in development, you know, because that happens all the time. And I'm pretty much of any game you play is some slightly compromised version of what the dream was. But it's still pretty mind blowing how much like how many variables in the writing of Three Houses there are and how like recruiting other characters, like getting Sylvain into the Black Eagles and going down the Crimson Flower route. He will have very mixed feelings about being part of the empire, you know, like and every character has that. It just I think there's a reason why this game doesn't feel like it's from seven years ago because people still talk about it. There's still so much like discussion about these characters because they are really so rich. And like, even though they all kind of start as archetypes, like it's so thrilling to kind of see them all in like different scenarios each time. And it makes it so replayable. And I love how this game does New Game Plus where like you get this currency called Renown that you can then just spend. So like I got all the recruits day one, because I could I could just bump up their supports to Max and then just invite them all into my house so they don't fall behind level wise. Yeah. But what I like to is that you can't just use Renown to unlock everything. You can only unlock what you've already unlocked in previous playthroughs. So you're kind of limited to what you've done before, which does give evidence to the fan theory that any new playthrough of Three Houses is by left using Divine Pulse. Like she's like, oh, yeah, lives through a whole thing and then goes back. That's a fun. But it's just like it's rare that I replay a game this long, especially doing this show. I usually have to when I reach the end of a big RPG, I'm like, cool, that was beautiful. I'm glad I saw it through moving on. Like that's usually the feeling. And there's just something about this game that almost makes me excited for the next time I'm going to be playing it. It's just like infinitely replayable. And it makes me wonder if if this will ever be topped. Like there's something so special about this game. I think there are already better Fire Emblem games in terms of the tactics and stuff. But as an overall experience, I haven't really been moved by any of them as much as I have Three Houses. Yeah, like for me, the only one that really gets close is Awakening. It's like the only Fire Emblem game that I think gets gets remotely close to what I like about Three Houses. But I wonder, I mean, I think everyone, regardless of kind of your interest in the series, can kind of agree on engage, like not hitting the same highs. You know, there are people who are more tactics focused who liked it for that reason. But the rest of the game surrounding that is definitely like not quite up to snuff, I think, by comparison. And I wonder how much of Fortune's Weave is going to be just pulled from Three Houses. I have to imagine most of it. But like I'm curious, like how much are they pulling from that? And on top of that, like how much are they adding to it? Like will it I'm hopeful that the success of that game will give them the kind of wherewithal and the budget and the time they need to be as ambitious as they want to be. And just like scratch at every single surface that they find interesting. Simultaneously, that is also where things tend to blow up in creators' faces. You know, it's like when you have like the blank check and you can do whatever you want. But at Fortune's Weave is like the biggest question mark of the year for me for that exact reason is like it really could go one of two ways. I think like, but I'm excited about it. Three Houses, though. I mean, that's a game I've been I've been thinking about revisiting recently as well, just kind of in the lead up to Fortune's Weave. I'm like, I should really kind of reacquaint myself with this game and the style of game, especially considering at least based on, you know, the the internet sleuths that exist. Like there is crossover in the lore between these two games as well. We saw a Sothis in the trailer, but like an adult Sothis. Yeah. Yeah. All these characters have the like ancient weapons that you unlock in the later stages of Three Houses. Like there's a bunch of stuff going on there that links the games together. So I'm like, I should probably kind of reacquaint myself with it. But it's amazing, I think that Three Houses did well enough to almost kind of become Fire Emblem's Final Fantasy 7. Yeah. In like, you know, we got three hopes after that and like it wouldn't have surprised me if we got more stuff with that cast later down the line. And it's I think there's even more evidence now that Fortune's Weave ties into that game. You know. Yeah. I mean, it remains the best selling. If you don't count the absurd amount of money Fire Emblem Heroes makes or the mobile game. Three Houses is still the best selling game. Yeah. And it's interesting too that, you know, Engage and Three Houses were in development largely alongside each other. Yeah. It kind of feels a little bit like when Disney started to evoke your old employer, everything we say now is our opinion, baby. Yeah, dude. But it always was. And it's always. That's true. You know what? You were feeling like actually that was all Disney. Yeah. He was all corporate edict from Bob Iger. That take on 13 Sentinels that was all Iger. But like from what I know of Disney animation history, like in the 90s Renaissance, after Aladdin, they kind of split the team into an A and B team. Oh, yes. Yes, from what I know. And so like the A team would work on the movie that Disney or the executives of Disney kind of assumed would be the big hit. And then the B team would work on the other one. Yeah. And they are always wrong. They are always wrong. Yeah. So for context, the A and B team, the A team worked on Pilka Hones, which if you watch again, you can kind of tell because that movie is beautiful. Animation wise. It's unbelievable. Yeah. It is still stunning. And the B team worked on The Lion King, which is like still one of the biggest things ever. But what's it you can also kind of tell like it's not that it looks bad. It is like if you were to watch, I recently watched the 90s Renaissance alongside my sister when my niece was born. This is like a fun thing to like watch together apart. And like you can tell like Lion King and the other B team movies of that era look more like a Saturday morning cartoon than like an animated feature where it's like, oh, like Poco Hones was meant to sort of like dazzle you with this imagery. And Lion King is a little bit is a little bit cheaper looking. I might get killed for saying that, but it just by comparison. No, I know what you mean. Yeah. I mean, like I think also the the other one that everybody always points out is Lilo and Stitch and Treasure Planet, where Treasure Planet was the A team and everyone just assumed that that was going to be a huge hit. And there are a lot of stories of animators getting demoted off of Treasure Planet and like put on Lilo and Stitch as punishment. And of course, Lilo and Stitch becomes the breakaway hit and Treasure Planet is a huge fucking bomb. But simultaneously, if you look at those two movies next to each other, you can tell which one had the budget. Yeah. Same with like like Hunchback and Hercules. Those are both really good and both did well. Although I imagine Hercules has stuck around more in the conversation. But like Hunchback looks like so impressive still. And is one of the more seamless uses of CGI in that era because like that was the time where like 3D was new. So like when you get to like the Jaguar head talking in Aladdin, it's like, oh, but the way they use CGI to sort of enhance the feeling of movement and the the cathedral and Hunchback is really effective. Yeah. Anyway, I don't know if at Nintendo or Intelligent Systems or or Coitechmo, like if there was an A team and a B team. But in terms of the budget, like Engage was made in Unity and like looks like I actually I strongly prefer the character design of Three Houses. But the like character models and animations, like you can tell Three Houses was like on a budget with like the backgrounds being sort of these like warped almost paranormal site images. And like every character kind of has like three to seven different animations. And like that's what I love about the game because replaying it. I like I have certain barks like baked into my brain, you know, and like it's also a case of like none of that stuff bothers me because they used the budget where it mattered, which in that game was the was the vocal talent. The voice acting in that game is remarkable. Like yeah, it's an all star cast, you know, like it that game like made me interested in voice acting in a way I wasn't before that game. Because now it's like fun to spot like, oh my God, that was also Hubert somehow. But like, you know, just the amount of character you get when it's a character's turn and they say one line like Linnheart going like battle is like such a great or Bernadette is like, oh no. Like I just I love that that style of writing is so much harder than it might sound like it is. Writing barks is like one of the more underappreciated gifts of narrative design, in my opinion. I completely agree. I completely agree. That's actually I feel like MOBA's that's like the challenge of a MOBA because that's all the character you're getting is like, you know, unless they get lucky enough to get a Netflix anime. Unless you make arcane, which is like, you know, I saw a funny post somewhere where someone was like, the worst thing arcane did was convince the world that League of Legends is cool, which I I loved Wild Rift, but I agree that arcane is my favorite League of Legends thing. But yeah, I just it's just like reentering a game that is literally about like the nostalgia of reentering a place where I already kind of have like an intimate knowledge of these characters, the systems who I want to be what role. It's just like a unique joy that I have rarely gotten to experience in other games. Yeah. And yeah, in terms of what Fortune's Weave is, like, I I'm excited to see what it is. And I think the the beauty of this series is that, like, it can, you know, it largely does adhere to certain things. But like, there is a lot of variety throughout the years, especially post awakening, where like the games try a lot of different things. And even the ones that don't work like fates, I recognize is like a very messy trilogy. But the the failures of that game, I think led to the strengths of Three Houses in many ways, because like you can tell they were trying to do this idea of like you get to know multiple cast and then there's this conflict between them and like right. The sort of bittersweet atmosphere of like intimately knowing your enemy and the tragedy of that. Yeah. And yeah, it's also just one of the more like replaying it. There's so much variety and there's so much fun and like learning new things or trying to build the character in a different way. She's in the game with my now intimate knowledge of the systems being like, OK, if Bernadette is natural ability is she does more damage when she has taken damage. And then she's one of the few characters who learns vengeance for the staff. You can make her like an absurdly busted Paladin or Pegasus rider and like how that fits with her character is also really fun. It's just so cool to be back. I can go on and on. I've said it all before, but it's just really, really nice to be back. Now, I think you're convinced me to redownload it also. I'll probably jump back into. Oh, and I've been playing it in the boost mode. So there is like a new thing there with the switch to like the boost at handheld. Yeah, how does it look? It looks great. I mean, you know, it is it is kind of a charmingly, you know, a charmingly rendered game with the way the backgrounds are and everything. But like it looks and plays well, and it definitely doesn't have the like the sort of trade off that it used to. I'm excited to play. He famously had some issues on the switch to also at launch. It was one of the first games I checked out in boost mode and I was really impressed by it. Yeah. I also redownloaded the definitive, the switch to version of Zen of the Chronicles X, which I started last year. And I kind of want to get back into that as a game that's a dip into every now and then the sort of like single player MMO of it all. Yeah. So I'm excited to see how that looks. But I find like I've been playing switch to and handhelds more because I got those grips for it. And the weird thing that impresses me about it is like the speaker, like the sound is really good. It is good. And I agree with you. That used to be kind of a trade off where I would like usually listen to the switch with headphones, but I would have too many things like plugged like sliding joy cons and headphones. This is disorienting. Like the Game Boy magnifying glass and the speaker's fly out the side. The gear for your Game Boy events. Yeah. I got the magnifying glass and the light. God bless whoever made that. But yeah, that's my three houses update. I it's just I will say one more one more thought about it. You mentioning like it could have been or it may even end up being like Fire Emblems FF7 in the sense like it kind of becomes its own series. Yeah. I would love that. And it certainly has like stuck around and done well critically and commercially. It does kind of feel like though that like it's still and I don't think this is a bad thing, but it still kind of feels like a cult hit in the way that like if you were to ask most people, like what are the best RPGs of the last 10 years? I don't think as many people would say three houses as they would say like Persona 5, for example, which like, you know, apples and oranges, it's all subjected. But I do feel like this game deserves to be on that level. And I don't think it is for whatever reason. I don't know if it's like the Fire Emblem of it all or if it's just like the niche of being a tactics game will always kind of keep it like in that sort of cult hit territory. But I just think it is like so even if you don't like the story, it is like inherently impressive in the adaptability of the writing. Like just the amount of stuff they've accounted for is really, really staggering. Yeah. So it's just nice to have like I feel like I'm always ready to write that game off as like, oh yeah, that was, you know, like that was me in my 20s. I'm over it now. Like I'm so not. In fact, I like it more somehow. Help me help me take this away. That's Fire Emblem Three Houses. That's what's your deal with the wolves? Are you picking them up? Here's my thing about the wolves. Yeah, tell me about them. I so I actually haven't finished the side story. Oh, really? The side story is like weirdly very hard. Yeah, it is difficult. I just like fell off of it. I think I have like two chapters left, so I will. And the way it works is like the side story is its own campaign. And when you finish it, it unlocks more stuff for a run of the game. So like by default, it unlocks the abyss, which is where the wolves hang out. And if you play more of the story, it will unlock like more features you can use in the abyss. And you can also recruit the wolves from the very beginning. They're actually very helpful for Maddening because you can get them right away. Yeah. And they're all pretty good. Like they're they're not like top tier units, but they're all they're all very strong. And I like them. I wanted to keep my party a little bit smaller this time. Like I picked up because in Silver Snow, you lose Adelgard and Hubert. I wanted to account for that loss by getting a few very strong recruits. So Sylvain will join you automatically if you're playing as Fen Baileth, which is very funny. He's like, yeah, I'll join whatever. And I also use New Game Plus to pick up Leonie, Lyceithia and Mercedes. Mercedes I mostly got because I like her paralogue with Yurica. Yes. Although I don't know if I will get that this time. We'll find out. But she has a connection to the Empire in an interesting way. I don't mind having two healers, but Leonie and Sylvain are just like two of the best overall units in the game. And Lyceithia is easily the best mage like Barna. And also very important for that run in particular. Yeah. Yeah, she has she's one of the few non black Eagles that has a support with Adelgard, which is like gives you a lot of important context to their characters. If you're wondering why they both have white hair, there's an answer. There is an answer. Yeah, the wolves are fun. I really like I like Balthus and happy, especially happy is a girl who is like this like glamorous emo girl who whenever she sighs, monsters show up. And I'm like, that's just brilliant. I love that concept for a character. And Balthus is like Hot Topic Raphael. Like he's like, what if Rafael was like a little bit goth? Yeah. One of my favorite paralogue battles in Three Hopes, the Warrior's sequel, is a paralogue between Hilda, her brother and Balthus. And it's like Balthus on the run from people he owes debt to. It's so good. It's like comic gold. Maybe I should replay Three Hopes. Maybe that's what I should replay. I only did one route, I think, in Three Hopes. If I'm remembering correctly, it's really good. Like, I mean, I've also only done one. I did. I'd finish Golden Deer and then I started a new game plus of Black Eagles. Three Hopes is a great way to revisit that world without the commitment of a new Three Houses playthrough. Yeah. Like if you want to just like dip in. But there's like great writing in it. There's great supports. I really, really like Shez as a lead character. Me too. Yeah. Shez is awesome. So yeah. That's what I'll do. Three Hopes, also great on Switch 2. Like honestly, one of the selling points of the Switch 2 for me is like Musso now works. So like you can play, you know, the Zelda games and or Age of Musso. Age of Musso. Age of Calamity, Age of Imprisonment and Three Hopes. Anyway, that's my take on the Wolves and the Abyss. There's also like a dump you can just buy. You can find Broken Gear for free, which is kind of funny. Yeah. Anyway, that's all I got. That's far from Three Houses. How do you feel about the fishing? Love the fishing. It's one of my favorite fishing minigames. Very simple. That's another thing I do. Like with New Game Plus, like you can boost your support ranks with people, your weapon. Everything you've previously unlocked, you can boost like your class abilities, your weapon skills, your support ranks and your professor level. And I immediately max out my professor level. That way you can just do more in the monastery right away. So like you can have lunch like eight times to max out everyone's motivation, which is great. But the fishing, the fishing is a great way to boost your professor level for free early on. That's Fire Emblem Three Houses. All right. Who's your favorite tea time? Oh God, don't make me choose. Claude is very difficult, which I appreciate. He's the hardest to read from day one until the end. Very much in character for him. I love Hilda. I just love spending time with Hilda. Everything she says makes me laugh. She had a line that was like, war is kind of boring or something. I was like, I love this game so much. And I also really like to do. I like seeing a gentler side of to do as well. And tea time. How about you? Do you have a favor on the top of your head? I mean, it's hard not to pick. I mean, just based on the memes, the Black Knight. Oh, yes. The Death Knight. The Death Knight, Yorica. Yeah. What? What's your favorite kind of tea? Yeah, it's too good. You meet him like it's like set up as a mystery that he's the Death Knight. It's like so obvious. See, it's the least surprising reveal in the entire game of every reveal they're trying to do across all three runs. It's like the least surprising one every time. You talk to him like by the fishing dock and he's like, what if the lake was just blood? It's like, all right, this guy, it's maybe on a different level. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in terms of favorite characters, like, yeah, I love them all. I don't really. It's so funny, like whenever a well-meaning newcomer in the Discord asked, like, hey, like I finally checked out Three House is because of the show. Like what? How should I start with? Yeah. It's like they did too good of a job making people feel passionately about each of their causes, that there is genuine conflict in our reality. Every time. It's sort of like how in Toy Story, like Buzz Lightyear actually became one of the best selling toys, like in our reality, like they did it too well. Because people have very strong opinions. I think the truth is that they're honestly all great. Like you can't really go wrong. There's not going to be a house that I feel like you will regret doing first. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I would say like if you're going to only play once, I would say Golden Deer gives you the fullest picture. If you want to like know the most top level information about what's happening here in the world, you'll feel the most kind of full after that play through. I would say. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, you're going to be like at a remove a little bit from like the central emotional conflict of what's happening. But you will know the most. And if you want to be like really up close and personal with how like demented people can be in the plate of war, then you could play either of the other ones and get that experience. Yeah, I feel like like Demetri and Adelgard's routes are like primarily about their trauma and how that has affected their worldview. Yeah. And Claude is I saw like an ancient meme of this where like it had the three Lords and on on Claude, it said it's OK to ask for help. And then everyone else said war is OK. War is OK. War is OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, like you'll and you'll learn specific things. This is something that bumps some people, which I understand like not getting the full picture without having to play it three times is a big ask. But I think if you're comfortable, I think the starring element is the characters. I think that like if you like character driven plots more than say like the A plot, you'll have a great time regardless. But the different houses will focus on different parts of the world. And it's honestly like in addition to being a great cast, I like the world of Fodlan. It's really interesting. There's like a lot to explore with like the class system and the crests and all this stuff. It's it's great. That's fire in three houses. It's becoming a game of chicken. I was trying to see how long I could keep that big going. I was recall. I recall the memory literally from 2019's Goaty where like we joked that we had more to say. Like our first bonus was three houses. Yeah. And that was like a three hour episode and we were like, we still have more to say about it. It's like that it has been seven years and I'm still like still kind of cool. I look, I said this on the Persona 4 bonus, which will come out at some point relatively soon and I'll say it again. You, you in particular have a couple like winter soldier activation words where I just have to say the name of a video game and you will just talk for as long as I let you basically about it and Fire Emblem is one of them. Fire Emblem Three Houses in particular is one of them. I could just, I could just say Fire Emblem Three Houses and like what was the last question I just asked you was what's your favorite tea time and then we just talked about which house you should start with. What are the other winter soldier codes? I probably know them. It's Persona. Persona, yeah. Yeah, Persona is really the other one. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting how I feel like over time, those have almost overtaken Final Fantasy VII. I feel like when we started the show, FF VII was like, I mean, I still love that game. Yeah. You know, it will come up in our PS1 discussion for sure. Yeah. Um, it's, that is, that is so formative to me. Um, but I think we have that one episode. I forget what it is, but there's an episode where the cover art is like the five cards. Yeah. I think it's called like the perfect episode where it's like the five cards. It's, I think it's Three Houses, Persona, FF VII, what are the other two? Oblivion. Which we don't really talk about anymore. And then there's another one. Oh wait, I just found it. I just found it. Oh no, it's just those four. It's just, yeah, it's Oblivion, Three Houses, Persona V and Final Fantasy VII. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's shifted a little bit, but but Three Houses and Doors. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. I mean, it's also cool. Like I've seen people like, I think the reason, another reason, here I go, another reason it hasn't felt like seven years is because it's remained in the conversation, you know, like between Three Hopes coming out and kind of reinvigorating, because that was only a few years ago that that came out. So like, I guess that was five years ago. Jesus, maybe it has been a long time, but like it's, it's remained relevant in a way that not every game from seven years ago has remained. Okay. I think that's, I think that is actually Fire Emblem Three Houses. Ugh, battle. Let's take a break when we come back. We'll talk about a new old video game. What? I like reminiscing about my favorite game from recent history. It's old enough to be old, but not too old to be retro. That's Fire Emblem Three Houses. Thanks, Teach. That's Fire Emblem Three Houses. Steven, I started playing a game the other day without realizing that literally a day later there would be like a, like a collection remaster kind of experience releasing. So I love that. I have been playing through the Mega Man Battle Network games on the Game Boy Advance recently. Yes. Yeah, I remember that. Which is a franchise that I'll be honest, like I enjoyed my time with it when we did the Game Boy Advance bonus, but like they did not bubble up to games that I was like really going to bat for on that episode. That episode, I mean, it came out a long time ago. We were, hey, we're different people, but look, those games are fascinating in just like taking Mega Man and saying we're going to make like a tactical RPG out of them is like a is a fascinating idea. And then they kind of one up you by basically making it this like super left field, like cyberpunk experience where you're like a kid who has Mega Man as like a sentient AI who like hangs out in your cell phone. And then you can like go stand next to any electrical object in the world and press the R button. And then you like you like phase into that object and then you can like go talk to the programs that control like your oven and stuff. It's it's such a weird video game. And I think one of the things that's interesting about the Battle Network series is that it starts off like kind of saccharine and sweet and very like I would say WB kids cartoon adjacent like it. Yeah, it's very sad and we're cartoon vibes. It's like it's pretty it's pretty silly. And then from what I understand and I'm only I'm like I would say halfway into the second one right now. But from what I know talking to people, it sounds like there are six of them to be clear. It sounds like one you get towards six. Like it starts to get a little bit like darker and a little more hardcore. And the story starts to be like a little more you go. Yeah, well, actually, I think actually and it's just like more intense. And then just the way I've seen people talk about the way that franchise ends is like you would never believe while playing Mega Man Battle Network one. What is happening story wise at the end of Mega Man Battle Network six, which, you know, I'm excited to see that one day. But yeah, while I was thinking about this, I was like, there's that whole other sequel series that existed on the Nintendo DS. And I'm kind of curious about revisiting it. And I remember when we did our DS episode, I checked it out. And I'll be honest, I just like didn't really connect with it very much. A lot of what was it called again? It's like Star Mega Man Star Force. And there are three of them. So what they started doing with the Mega Man Battle Network games is they started to do kind of the Pokemon thing where you can get like different versions of each. So Mega Man Star Force has three versions Pegasus, Leo and Dragon, which in case you're wondering relates to the three satellites floating above Earth in the story of the video game. But each each version will give you a different transformation and a different form with a different elemental ability that you'll be able to use against enemies later in the game. Right now I'm playing Mega Man Star Force Leo, or at least when I started this journey, I was playing Pegasus, but I've since switched over to Leo. But anyway, I started playing Pegasus on on the Nintendo DS a couple days ago, and I was, I don't know, like just wanting to give it kind of a reappraisal. I wanted to see now that I've become definitely a fan of Mega Man Battle Network, I was like, I want to know how I feel about these Star Force games, because they are by and large, like not as well loved as how I'll put it, dunked on even in some capacities. There are, of course, as with every single video game, the hardcore fans of Mega Man Star Force, there are the people who will go to bat for it, say it's better than Battle Network, etc. etc. But I was like, let me let me just see how I feel about this now that I have kind of done a little bit of a reappraisal battle network for myself. So the big difference truly between Battle Network and Star Force, besides the fact that one of them is on the Game Boy Advance and one of them is on the Nintendo DS and has obviously two screens that you can mess around with, is the combat has changed pretty dramatically between these two games. Mega Man Battle Network, you probably have seen what the combat looks like, but there's a nine by nine. Is it nine by nine? No, no, it's a three by six grid is what I'm thinking of. There's a three by six grid that you're battling on. Mega Man is on one side of this three by six grid, and then there are enemies on the other side. And you get all of these different cards that you can use, which are like different programs that you can use to throw down these different attacks, which will affect different pieces of the grid on the enemy side. So, you know, for example, a long sword will hit like two spaces in front of Mega Man. So if there's an enemy there, they'll get hit with damage. You are basically trying to avoid enemy attacks while simultaneously use your own attacks to kill these enemies. And that's how the Battle Network series works basically the whole time. There are different mechanics that they add to battle in later entries, which I won't get into. But Star Force is interesting because they're using like the power of the Nintendo 3DS or sorry, the DS to change the perspective of this combat entirely. So instead of this like kind of isometric view of a three by six grid, you now are like a third person over the shoulder version of Mega Man when you're in combat, looking straightforward at this three by six grid. And there are enemies at the end kind of like jumping around trying to throw attacks at you. So you now have this like instead of, you know, moving around this three by six grid in an isometric viewpoint, you're literally just moving left and right. Like that's all you're trying to do is just like avoid attacks by moving left and right. And the combat changes also a little bit in that with Mega Man Battle Network, you could choose between a bunch of different attacks and they had like, you know, if you chose like a cannon, you could choose another cannon, like you could stack the same attack on top of each other and all the different cards have different letters, which associate with them. And you can stack like, you know, all the J cards together. I love when one of us gives up mid sentence. It's always kind of a three. Yeah. Look, there's a lot going on in battle network. Yeah. Yeah. Star Force actually think simplifies it in a really clean way where every time it's your turn to choose cards, you just have an option of six cards. Or sorry, I think it's, is it six cards or is it nine cards? I don't remember. It doesn't matter. You get to choose from like a pretty limited set of them. And the only ones you can really stack are the ones that are like the same kind of card. And there are a couple of different tweaks there as well. But like for the most part, it is just like a streamlining of the battle network combat while simultaneously changing the perspective. And I think making it a completely different style of combat. And as I've said many times, even since we did that Game of Advance episode, like I'm always surprised that people haven't just kind of lifted the battle network combat and put it in more stuff. You know, there was one stuff from Eden, which you brought up the last time I talked about that, which, you know, is like kind of getting close to that idea. But no one is doing the Mega Man Star Force combat. Like no one out there is trying to replicate this at all, which I think is a little bit, it's a little bit disappointing. I think it's pretty sick. The real thing about Mega Man Star Force that started to connect with me when I started playing it is what's going on narratively, which I think is generally speaking, the thing that is the most dunked on of this franchise. There's a lot of text. There's a lot of copy being written. There are a lot of NPCs you have to talk to. There's a lot of story that's happening. But the story is like so fascinating. It's so weird. So it starts off, first of all, you play as this kid named Geo Steller, who is like deeply, deeply, deeply sad because his father was an astronaut who got sent up into space and never came back. So he spends every day at this place in town called Vista Point, which is a place where you can like go outside of the town and see the stars at night. And he just goes there and like holds up a telescope and looks for his dad every night and he doesn't go to school anymore. His like his mom has taken him out of school. It's like you can go back if you want to, honey, but like you don't have to. And it's just very clear that he's like depressed. He's like very, very, very sad. Simultaneously, the school president who just goes by prez like walks around and constantly comes up and like berets you for not going to school. It's like she has these like two lackeys. Like one of them is like clearly like a super smart kid. And the other one's like this kind of big beefy like kind of meat head. And she's like trying to threaten you to come to school over and over and over again on this one day that you go to Vista Point. You get hit in the face by an alien, which comes down from space. And the alien is like basically a Digimon, like kind of a dragon looking guy who introduces himself as Omega sis. There's a hyphen there is why I put that spot there. Anyway, Omega sis and is like, hello, I am an alien from space. And I'm here to save humanity, basically, and I need to merge with a person. So I'm going to merge with you, Geo Steller. And when you merge together, he basically covers you in body armor and turns you into Mega Man. And that's like how that's like how you get these Mega Man powers. But you are not like actually Mega Man, like from the video game Mega Man, just like you weren't really Mega Man in battle network either. Like Mega Man was like a program on your cell phone in this game. Yeah, Mega Man was like your Pikachu in that game. And it sounds like this is like your sort of a Shazam transformation. Yeah, it's really this is like an even deeper pull, maybe, but it's not so dissimilar from like having Marth join you in Tokyo Mirage sessions where like you kind of blend with Marth and become like, you know, a Marth superhero. The same thing is going on here with with you playing as Mega Man. But the funny thing is like battle network for as silly as it is, is like a pretty clean explanation. It's like a kind of cyber punky future where everything is run by technology and like AI and computers. And you are a kid who has Mega Man like as a like personal assistant, essentially on your cell phone. And by utilizing that AI, you can like send it into programs and control them as they like go and mess with stuff. That it's silly, but it's pretty clean. It's like a pretty clean explanation. It is another world. It's like, OK, the digital world literally is where this happens. It's so funny to me that Mega Man Star Force is like, we're going to throw this out entirely. And instead, what we're going to do is introduce the idea of aliens coming from space. They operate on EM waves. And if you wear a special pair of glasses, you can see that there's an EM wave world that's floating on top of the normal world where like other robots and programs are moving between different things. And all of the combat happens and a lot of the dungeon crawling and traversal happens in this like EM space floating above the normal world. So unlike battle network where you would like jump into the oven and there would be a dungeon in the oven, there's a dungeon on top of your house. There's a dungeon on top of like the town at large. And also you are jumping into objects and things. So like right towards the beginning of the game, there's like a leftover train that's sitting near Vista Point. That's basically just a relic. Like they're like, you know, hundreds of years ago, people used to take these around and it comes to life and starts like terrorizing people. And you need to, you know, jump into this EM space and then jump into the train and then fight a bunch of viruses in the train and then go to like the mother board that controls the train and then stop it from attacking people. Like that's one of the first conflicts of the game where they teach you the combat. It's just very silly. And it ramps up even more because the vibe I'm getting and I'm a couple hours in. But the vibe I'm getting is that what is happening is that Omega Sys is actually like a defector from this planet that they come from. And the rest of the the EM creatures that exist on whatever planet that is are like all supervillains who are trying to take over other planets. Like they're like literally like an invasive alien species. And one of the first things that happens is because you are depressed and you don't want to go to school as Geo Stellar, the Prez and and her lackeys show up one day and just start like pestering Geo a lot. And he kind of like he kind of snaps and like Omega Sys also kind of urges him on in this way where he's like, why don't you just like punch them in the face? And he's like, I'm not going to do that. And Omega Sys like takes control of your arm and punches like the beef, the beefy guy in the face and knocks him out and it sends this guy. His name is Bud sends him into this like crisis of conscious where he's like, if I can't be the strong guy, then who am I? Like, why am I protecting the Prez? If I can't even take one punch from like, you know, this one, this like kind of like short, lanky kid who doesn't even come to school. And he goes up to Vista Point to kind of like lament about this, like Jack Skellington and the Nightmare Before Christmas. And an alien comes down that's in the shape of a bull. And he's like basically the representation of Taurus and is like, Hey, kid, I can make you powerful and like zooms into him. And he keeps having these moments over the next couple of days where he blacks out and he wakes up and like the town is ruined. Anything that's red in the town has been destroyed. And it's like, it's his fault, but he doesn't remember doing it. So you need to go into his like brain space and fight. It's very persona five. Like it's like, you need to go into like his psyche and fight this like Taurus demon inside of his brain. It's so weird and so silly. And like honestly, a really good time. Like I've been, I've been really impressed by how much the silliness of this game has started to connect with me. This game is very famous for one specific screenshot because it has like maybe some of the best NPC dialogue in any video game, like every person you talk to out in the world has something like either completely ignorable to say or so unhinged that like you just, you can't help but take a screenshot of it. And the one screenshot that everybody knows from, from this series of games in particular is there's an old man in your town who when you talk to him says I'm 30 years old. Yeah, I thought that was from Battle Network. No, it's from Star Force. Yeah. Oh, wow. So point being that kind of dialogue writing extends into the main scenario and the plot of the game as well. So like the second dungeon that you go into, there's a guy who used to work for like what is the equivalent of NASA who left because one of his ideas got stolen by his boss and like pitched as their idea. And he was like so ashamed that he quit his job and he's still an inventor and he's still working on new stuff and he's working on basically a pair of wings that like acts as a jet pack for people, which feels so dangerous, but like he's working on it and he makes a new friend at his new job and starts to think that his new friend is also trying to steal his idea. And while while he's doing that and once again being like, I can't believe I'm being betrayed again, there's an E.M. alien who shows up on the roof of their office building, who is like an electromagnetic swan who is like these are like direct quotes from the video game. It really is Kingdom Hearts coated. Betrayal is the essence of society. Release the darkness within your heart. And then you see the next time you see him, he's standing on top of a planet in like a space simulator and he says, I have been reborn and then he makes everyone dance. He hacks everyone's spacesuits and makes them constantly do ballet in space. And you need because you're able to avoid it, you need to then go into the E.M. space and like individually free people from from dancing. It's remarkable how silly this game is. Well, also like dealing with, I would say like pretty relatable, emotional problems that people have. But for some reason, like even though I think it might be camp, I guess is where I'm kind of landing on this conversation. Like I think they want you to take it seriously and simultaneously. It's so funny that you kind of can't. But like this guy standing on top of this thing. But first of all, before he says, I am reborn, everyone's like, how are you in here without a space suit? And he goes, I don't need a space suit. I am reborn. And then he makes everybody dance, which I'm obsessed with. But him saying, I don't need a space suit. I am reborn. Like really kind of sent me into a totally different strategy. I think you were reborn as well. Yeah. I am I am now becoming a fan of Mega Man Star Force as much as I am a fan of Mega Man Battle Network. All of this leads me to there is a new collection that just came out. It was an ask the Mega Man Star Force Legacy Collection, which is, you know, the next logical step after the two Battle Network Legacy Collections that they released and those Battle Network Legacy Collections. I think people tend to like, I didn't really hear too much about them. And, you know, I have all the Battle Network games already, so I didn't really feel the need to do that. But from what I had seen of the coverage of the Star Force Legacy Collection, they've done some really interesting stuff. So like these are Nintendo DS games, obviously they require two screens. You're going to have to. Yeah, you need to do some interesting stuff, right? Like the Castlevania one, for example, they just have a layout where it's like the DS screen, like the main screen is on the left, kind of as big as possible. They have the map there also and then also like your items that you can like fuck around with depending on what game you're playing. You can adjust it to it's really good. I love the Dominus collections. It's great. They do something really smart with Star Force where the main screen is always present and you can also change it. But I would recommend just going with like the kind of guided mode that they have as the auto selected one. The main screen is always like blown up in the middle and whatever the second screen would be is like about as small as it can be kind of like tucked away in the corner. But when you're in combat, like you facing the enemies is the main screen. And whenever you, you know, when it's your turn to like pick new battle cards, you press the button and it will just kind of like swap the screens and it'll like fly out. But also at any moment, you can press the L button and it'll just kind of like fly out the screens and swap them on the fly. And then there are certain moments in the game as well where there's like specific dual screen stuff happening. So like in that dungeon where you're fighting the swan guy, there are these like little swan chicks, like robotic swan chicks flying around in the sky, dropping bombs on top of the dungeons that you have to avoid. And to take them out, you need to like go to literally launch a rocket into space to fight them. And it's just like, it's an easy timing mini game where like the thing is flying around in the sky. You just have to press X at the right time and it shoots it straight up and hits them. But in that, in those moments, it is guided where like they will auto swap the layout to make sure that you are looking at the right layout for that moment. And I think that's the thing that's most interesting. Like I haven't really seen anyone do that in particular, where they're constantly swapping the layout to be whatever makes the most sense for the moment that you're in in that video game. And again, even in that moment at any moment or at any time, you can press the L button to kind of swap the layouts back. It's a really smart thing. And from what I've seen in the settings, like they just kind of take that level of dynamism to whatever degree you want, including like very specific difficulty and scaling options where you can say like, I don't want any random encounters. I want a lot. I want a little, um, how much, uh, when you're in between phases where you can choose cards, you can just like shoot the Mega Man blaster. You can change like how much damage that does every time it hits an enemy. Like they have a lot of little quality of life improvements here and there, which I think is really helpful because like one of the things that I think I've been kind of bumping up against with battle network in particular is just the random encounter rate is really, really, really high. And so much of the game is about exploring and trying to find your way through a dungeon that it's like it starts to become an impediment in your exploration and the ability to turn it down, which I actually haven't done in Star Force, so maybe that's a, you know, a notch in Star Force's belt that like, that's not really concerned I've had, but, you know, at any moment, if I felt like, okay, I really need to just like buckle down and explore, I could just open up the settings at any time and just turn the random encounters off for a little bit. That kind of stuff is really helpful. And then there's all this other stuff that they've added on top. Like if you like the multiplayer combat mode, it now has an online mode. Like they have introduced new online servers to be able to play Mega Man Star Force like against other people. I love when games do that when like older collections come out and that's an option that can really breathe new life into a game. Totally. Yeah, there's there's so much little, so many little things like that that they've added in this collection that I've just like found really, really impressive. Like, you know, I think Capcom, as we've talked about a lot, has done generally a very good job of, you know, their own version of game preservation, which tends to be like just rereleasing games on modern consoles. But I think the level of like love in this one, it has really taken me by surprise considering how little love I've seen for Star Force. Because this could have just been like a direct port with no care. You know, I mean, other than the DS stuff, like it could have just been like tossed onto modern consoles without really like we've seen that before in other older games like they're like, oh, it's coming to PS5. And it's like, I don't want to I don't want to discredit the work that it takes to just do that because that is its own process. And there are teams that exist to just port stuff over. But if you're charging, you know, a certain amount to get a game that people might already have, like I think there's may it's nice to have a reason to get it beyond just it now exists on this platform. Yes. And I think at least from what I've seen from the community who loves Mega Man Star Force, like everyone is basically just bewildered that this is the best legacy collection of the three of them. Like everyone's like, why is this the one that got the huge glow up? Yeah, like of all the Mega Man, even of the Mega Man spinoffs, it's like the odd sort of duck of the bunch. Yes. And even like the Mega Man mainline legacy collections, like this is still the best. It's so strange that this is the one. But it's really great. Like I'm really, really loving it. I might pick it up because I was trying while you were talking, I was going through backflow that I'm like, I thought this was like a weird dream I had, but I definitely played one of these for a little bit. We played Pegasus for the DS episode, I remember. Yeah, I played Mega Man Star Force Pegasus and I remembered that intro you talked about where like he said his dad's not there. That's a long time. Dude, it takes forever. And I'm saying that, like I'm saying that as a big fan of RPGs. Like that is like the thing I remembered more than anything else you described. But I was intrigued. The thing about the DS episode is that that was for the DS and for the Game Boy Advance premieres, the structure of those episodes was we would each make a top 10 list. So while for DS, we did play like over a hundred games over the course of over a year, which is a lot of fun. And I played a lot of weird stuff like this. There are a lot of RPGs that are like Star Force Pegasus-esque on the DS. The weird era. Like what was that game that was the grasshopper take on Mother 3 kind of? Oh, contact. Yeah, contact. Yes. Contact. Like that's another game that I would put in this like strange category. It was it was interesting. It was really creative use of the two screens, but very strange. Yeah. Yeah. I this sounds like something I would enjoy. I don't know if I like got far enough into it. Basically, my point is that like at a certain point in DS prep, we had to recognize like, does this have a chance at being in my top 10? Yes or no. And like I got far enough into the dad depression opening that I'm like, this is probably not going to bump out elite beat agents. Right. I can move on to something else. Yes. Yes. But if we were doing like the new format, which is like a larger shared list, I think we would have had more stuff like this on that episode. Yeah. We're like, yeah. And that's why we did that. Uh, we did an episode on our Patreon called DS. I love you. We talked about like the games really liked that didn't quite make the top 10 for both of us. Yeah. Um, I will say having played the intro to Mega Man, Star Force one twice now, uh, you know, one once on the DS again, and then in the legacy collection, um, on the DS playing through it at normal speed, getting to the first dungeon took me like an hour and a half. Uh, and I think the second time when I skipped all that dialogue, cause I had just seen it and got to the first dungeon, it took like maybe 10 minutes, 15 minutes, like it's like percent of five where you're like able to get to the comma sheet of dungeon in like 20 minutes. Even structured the same way where like it's a day by day video game. Like there is a certain point in the story every single day where Omega says it's like time to go home and get some rest. And then you have to like just go to bed and you wake up the next day and there's more stuff happening. Uh, I want to see fan art of like Joker with Morgana and his bag, but it's Geodude. What was his name? Geo Steller. Geo Steller and Omega. I love that idea. Oh my God. I almost want to like commission that. That's such a fun idea. Yeah. That's for like us and three other people. The funny thing too. I can't believe I didn't mention this, but like in Mega Man battle network, you could just run up as I mentioned to anything that's controlled by a computer and you could just press the button and then you just like go into it. Um, or you send Mega Man into it, I should say in this game, it's like a magical girl transformation that happens, uh, because like you, you and Omega's this need to merge together. And the way it works is you need to put on these special glasses so you can see a point in the world that you can travel into, which is like a little, like it's a little like a world. It's like an orange whirlpool just kind of floating on the ground. It kind of looks like a portal, like an orange portal. Um, it's, it's like hanging out on the ground. And you need to walk up on top of that. And then you press the R button. And, uh, when you do that, Geo Steller has to say canonically, Omega says, tells him that it doesn't work if he doesn't say this. He says EM wave change Geo Steller on the air. And then you see, you see a cinematic where he and Omega says merge into Mega Man and then, and then you're in the EM world. And then you, then you can run around and you can see there's little portals on the top of like other objects. And that's how you jump into them. Um, it's so strange. It's so funny. It re, and that's, that's where like they lean even further into the Saturday morning cartoon of it all. Like that's, yeah. Where, okay. One, we had to open the show with something like that now. I'm just like contractually obligated to, I'm curious at this point, do you think you're more into battle network or star force? It's a great question. Cause the only one that I've finished so far is battle network one. And that is widely considered to be the worst battle network game. Yeah. I've heard it's like this, cause I remember someone that is sort of saying like three or four is when it kind of starts to like, yes, take shape. And I'm, I'm, I'm into right now and it just kind of feels like a little bit more of the same, you know, this is again, like think about how long the Gameboy Advance was in production for, which is like a decent amount of time, but not that, that long. And they released six Mega Man battle network games in that time. So like there was, that's, that's a lot. Even for that era where like a sequel coming out the next year wasn't uncommon. So that means that we basically got like two a year for, for a stretch. Which is pretty wild. So I, I'm kind of chalking up to so far at least, I haven't seen anything that really kind of shakes this idea. I'm seeing two is like kind of the Ridge Racer two for the PSP of this, where it's like, they've made it a little bit better here and there. And they've maybe streamlined some stuff, but for the most part, it's like, by and large, just a new story, but the same underlying game. And I have some like major issues with that, but I've heard that three is great. Like three and six are the two that people say are like the best ones. How many are there? Are there six? Yeah, there's six. So are they all in one collection? Are there two collections? There's two collections for battle network. It, it sounds like the three to six collection is probably the one to get. Yeah. Oh yeah. I wonder if that's how they do it actually. Or is it like here are the good ones in here at the rest? That'd be funny. Wait, I want to see actually Mega Man Legacy. Okay, wait. Legacy Collection one has. Oh yeah. Oh, okay. Wait. Yeah. This has one, two and three in it. Okay. And then the rest is and then four through six is in the other one. So, so you get, you get Mega Man Battle Network three in Legacy Collection one. Okay. And then you get the, the, okay. So basically each one has one of the best ones. Yes, exactly. Whereas the Mega Man Star Force collection has a, has just all of them in it, which is nice. So, so you mentioned the Pokemon thing. What changes are they different stories or is it just like different? Like, like what's the difference between like Pegasus and Leo and all that? It's just your elemental ability that you get at a certain point in the game. That's all, that's all the changes. At least in, in this one, I think eventually you start to unlock like new forms that you can take. I see. And I think there's like a region or not region. There's a version exclusive one for each of the games, but it doesn't really change the game that much. Like I just, I looked up the difference between Pegasus and Leo and Dragon for Mega Man Star Force one. And it just seemed like from a gameplay perspective, I was going to connect more with Leo, which is it gives you the ability to like burn your opponents. But if you're fighting like fire based enemies, that's not really that helpful. But they all, they all kind of, I think so. Yeah. And looking at the cover image on backlog. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I'm going to get this collection. Oh, I guess we have it on Steam, right? I'm playing it on Switch, but we should get it on Steam. I agree with you. Yeah. Okay. I'll, I'll give this another shot. I'll, I'll embrace the sad journey and, and get into this. I think you should, I think you will like it. Kind of just give it a shot. And I think also specifically, don't hesitate to like look, I've been using a game facts guide for some stuff here and there, because there's a little bit of like a, you know, it's the early 2000s esoteric. I don't understand where I'm supposed to go of it all. Or like, I don't fully know how to interact with some of this stuff. It is also helpful to know that at any time you can press the L button and Omega says will like tell you what to do next. I love a helpful hint. I love a Minish Cap hat talking to me. Yeah. This, I mean, I can't think of a more into the eighth or game than this. You're new to it. And I haven't played it. Like I'm just looking at it. I'm like, this is kind of what I think people expect to hear about every week. That's probably true. I love in the legacy collection too, they have like this really high rendered version of, of Geo Stellar and Omega says as Mega Man, just like standing up there, like standing on the main menu, like as you select your stuff. But at any time you can press the L button and he'll just like say something at you and it's very funny. I would love to see someone cosplay Geo Stellar or Megasus fusion and everyone's like, hey, sweet Mega Man. I'm not Mega Man. I'm Geo Stellar, Megasus. There is a moment not to burst that bubble. There is a moment where Geo Stellar decides he needs to keep his identity secret after saving some people and they ask him who he is and he says, I'm Mega Man. Oh, it's a pretty cool. Yeah. This feels kind of like the, the Batman thing where like there are technically a few people that are Batman, although they're all like a very different take on Batman. There could be more than one Mega Man. It doesn't have to just be. I don't even know enough about Mega Man to know like who the real Mega Man is. You know, like when Mega Man was in a tech inverse Street Fighter, it was like an approximation of the Mega Man on the box art, the infamously bad Mega Man like drawing, which is so funny. Thankfully, as we prepare for the PS one, we can play Mega Man Legends and learn all about it. I'm so excited for that because that is a game that like that box art is like in my brain. When I think about like games I've rented, I always saw that on the shelf, like Mega Man Legends. I'm pretty sure I rented it at some point and like played it when I was very young, but I have no recollection of it. And I feel like that's a whole other that might be more into the Aether than Star Force. I thought Mega Man Legends might be might be our thing. Coin flip, I think. Yeah. You will find out, but I'm excited to start playing PS one stuff. So very cool. All right, I'll give this a shot. I appreciate you bringing it up and venturing into this into this series for us. It's what's so fun about it. We need to find stuff like this. Yeah. No, totally. I literally like we were at PAX. It was it was the first day that we got there. So it was actually technically before we got to PAX and I was sitting on a couch with AJ and we were both just like decompressing because we've both just been traveling for five or six hours or whatever. And I was just like, I need to play something for into the Aether this week and I have no idea what to play. And then it was like, you know, what would be funny? Mega Man Star Force. And boy, did it take me down a rabbit hole of actually really enjoying Mega Man Star Force a lot. So I'm happy about it. Those are always the best episodes when we don't know what to do and then we end up getting into like a very specific sub-series. And the timing with the Legacy Collection was just like unfathomable. I couldn't believe that that happened. Like I woke up the next morning and I saw my blue sky feed was a bunch of reviews for Mega Man Star Force Legacy Collection. I was like, damn, sick. Hell yeah. You made it. You, you, you the answered it or the secret of it. I the secret of it into, into reality. I thought you're going to say AJ this way. I don't know, Star Force. Yeah, whatever. With that, with their knowing ways. I remember one of my favorite things AJ has ever said was on the late great asynchronous podcast. Someone, it was in their like opening section with, with AJ and Kim. They were doing like a Q and A of some kind, maybe a mixing, mixing up some details. But regardless, the question was, what is the worst music for Drusage? And without missing a beat, AJ said, I don't know, ween. I was like, why is that? Why is that the right answer? That is, I know nothing about Drusage, but I know you don't Drusage to ween. Like I think about that every day. We love you, AJ. Drusage to Ocean Man is like one of the funniest ideas. So good. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Holy shit. Oh my God. On that note, shall we? Yeah, let's wrap up. Oh my God. Well, thank you, AJ, for that. I don't even know if you remember that joke, but I just want you to know it is stuck with me for as long as Three Houses has basically. Also, to be a basic premise, they have a whole deep dive on Three Houses from years ago. That's a lot of fun if you want to listen to like a play along series with it. They also have one for Mass Effect and Thirteen Sentinels. And I think that's it. But the whole Mass Effect trilogy, maybe I'm missing one, regardless, great show and listen to Zip. That's their new show about big games and small packages. OK, we should we should wrap up and getting tired and lunch is calling. Thank you for listening into the cast that online is our website. If you want to support the show, the best way to help it grow is to share with a friend. You can also rate and review us on your podcast app of choice. And you can support us directly at patreon.com slash into the cast. We also have a merch store into the cast that online. And for patrons, you can expect actually it should already be out. The episode with AJ and Brendan about PAX East. We're recording shore leave as well later today. That should also be up by now. And then we're recording the Vita episode in about two weeks. So that will be coming out next month as well, most likely. So all very exciting. Anything on the horizon, Brendan, you're excited about or anything else you want to say before we go? I mean, a lot of things, but nothing to shout out here yet, I think. Nothing in the EM world until I maybe get to Star Force two or something. Yeah, how many are I know there's like the different versions, but how many are there? Over there are three. Hell yeah. All right. Well, until next time, everyone, take care of yourselves in this reality. Take care of yourselves in the EM world and keep an eye on the stars. Keep an eye on the stars. Maybe your dad will come back. I just need to tell you these are the names of the video games. Mega Man, Star Force Pegasus, Mega Man, Star Force Leo, Mega Man, Star Force Dragon, that's that's Mega Man, Star Force one, Mega Man, Star Force two, Zercher X Ninja, Mega Man, Star Force two, Zercher X Sarian. I don't know what any of that means. Mega Man, Star Force three, Black Ace and Mega Man, Star Force three, Red Joker. Oh, man. I think I think I have to go for Black Ace. I think I would probably go Red Joker. Red Joker sounds cool. That's right. That is very percent five. Literally, it is the year twenty two O X and the world has seen rapid advancements in wave technology. Our protagonist, eleven year old, Geo Steller refuses to go to school as he mourns the disappearance of his astronaut father. One night, Geo is at the observatory as he gazing at the stars as he usually does. Suddenly, his transfer picks up a signal from space and he is hit with a powerful electric shock when he finally comes to an alien with an electromagnetic wave body called Omega Sys is standing over him. That's the pitch. What are the chances that his dad is somewhere in the world? I think extremely high or his dad is a mega or something or his dad's like will is a mega. So the fun the fun thing that's far from three houses. The the the fun thing about it is Omega Sys keeps telling Geo that he knows where his dad is and is like, no, no, no, just just help me fight this guy first. And then I'll tell you that I'll tell you about your dad. So he might be using him. Yeah, that's the vibe I'm getting. That's dark. That's dark. Don't abuse that. You again. Omega Sys. Anyway, that's it for us. Aetherlings offline. Perfect. So good. Thank you. See you.