Perimenopause: How to Make Yourself a Priority with Dr. Mariza Snyder

On this episode of the Resetter podcast, we're going to talk all things perimenopause. Now I've been doing a lot of episodes on menopause, all different versions. I'm really, hopefully you are seeing that I'm trying to give you a wide perspective because it's a little bit of the wild, wild West out there when it comes to everything from hormone replacement therapy to libido to weight loss, menopausal belly weight. Like everybody's got an opinion these days and it can be a little crazy. So what I've been trying to do with these podcasts is really niche down a topic so you can understand how to best control a certain aspect of your menopausal journey. Whether you are 80 or you are 30, I'm hoping that each topic that I'm dialing down into, you are gleaning some inspiration and understanding of what's best for you. In this particular episode, I brought a dear friend, Dr. Marisa Snyder, to you all and she has written a book called The Perimenopause Revolution. What you're going to hear in this conversation is what is perimenopause? When does it start? What are some of the first symptoms of perimenopause? How can you manage those symptoms? And we're going to really take this conversation through the lens of lifestyle. Now at the back end of the conversation, we talk about hormone replacement therapy, which is a very common thing that everybody wants to talk about. But why I wanted to have this conversation with Dr. Marisa was that she brings up some incredibly valid points about lifestyle that we cannot overlook. So simple things like what you eat, when you eat, movement. We talk a lot about the importance of movement for managing your symptoms, learning how to prioritize ourselves, learning how to set boundaries and stick to them. So it's a really dense lifestyle conversation that I feel very honored to have had with her and to bring to you all. And what I'm hoping you're seeing if you're coming back to my podcast week after week is that I'm open to it all. And I really believe that each one of us, whether we are deep into our post-menopausal experience or just about to enter our perimenopausal experience, we need to listen to all the experts. And when we need to make a decision for ourselves. The old healthcare system used to be one where we showed up at the doctor's office, the doctor told us what to do and we did that. That is not the healthcare environment we are living in today. So I'm excited to bring you what may appear as opposing pieces of information, experts that disagree with each other. But most importantly, I am trying to open up the metapause conversation as wide as I can so we can look at it from a new lens and that you can understand that you have more control than it cannot feel some days. So the perimenopause revolution is really such a powerful book and a powerful idea. And I love what Dr. Mitzvah has to say about it is the window of vulnerability. And I can tell you as a 55 year old woman who's three years post-menopausal, she is absolutely right. But perimenopause is that moment in which we need to make sure that we're doing the right lifestyle changes, that we're starting to shift and transform ourselves and the way we behave because our neurochemical system is transforming and changing. And a part of that might be doing HRT as well. So it's a really good lifestyle conversation with a little HRT twist at the end. So if you resonate with what we talk about, please go get Dr. Mitzvah's book. It takes a lot out of an author to write a book. You're getting the deepest perspective in their heart. So this book's are the greatest long format to gather this information. So Dr. Mitzvah Snyder, super excited to bring her to you. And as always, I hope it inspires you and moves the needle forward on your health. Welcome to the Resetter podcast. This podcast is all about empowering you to believe in yourself again. If you have a passion for learning, if you're looking to be in control of your health and take your power back, this is the podcast for you. So welcome and I can't wait to have this conversation with you. Oh, Mindy honey. I have been looking forward to this for weeks, getting to see your smile, getting to have this conversation, getting to move the needle for women in a really profound way. Yeah. Thank you. It's funny. Anybody who knows me knows that I love a deep conversation. I had my mother, my in-laws were in town this weekend and my mother-in-law moved her chair right next to me and she's like, Mindy, I know you like a deep conversation. Let me tell you what I've been thinking about. I was like, oh my God, thank you for knowing me so well. So I want to, with that, that lens, I want to bring a deep conversation to Perry menopause because I think we've gone from a time where nobody was talking about menopause to everybody's talking about menopause. And I feel like we're settling in on this idea that the word menopause is a general term and that actually Perry menopausal transition and post menopause has to be treated very differently, even though they all say menopause. So I'm super happy you wrote this book because I think we need to double down on Perry menopause being this really pivotal time. So for our listeners that don't know, can you explain when does Perry menopause start? How do we know we're in Perry menopause? I love this question, Mindy. And yes, this is the number one question I get from patients and my community all the time because the symptoms begin to start. And for some, it's subtle. For some, it's like a mat truck moment. And they're like, is this, is this Perry menopause? And I feel like there's so many of us that are a little scared coming into it. Like is this actually what it is? So I want to just quickly define menopause and we'll go from there. So menopause, natural menopause is anywhere between 45 years old and 55 years old. So somewhere we're going to fall somewhere in the middle of that. The average age of menopause is 51 years old. I know my mom went into menopause at 53. And so, you know, I'm expecting somewhere in my early 50s, that's where I'm going to land as well. Now, Perry menopause is the transition where our ovaries are winding down and our hormones are radically declining without permission, mind you, I always say this is without permission. And this is anywhere between four and 10 plus years. A dear friend of ours, Dr. Sarah Gottfried, I was just talking to her recently and she was talking about how she's been in Perry menopause for 15 years. Wait, she's still in Perry menopause? Good honor. She's still holding on. I'm talking about good reproductive longevity. She hasn't let me in on that secret. That's amazing. And the point is that it's continuum. It is a massive continuum and it's actually broken in to different stages as well. Because you can imagine, I've been joking recently and saying, that's not a transition, that is a freaking career. Like 10 years of your life. Yeah. That's a long time. Some of us have multiple careers in a 10-year span. And I think about in a lifetime, gosh, how much can happen in 10 years for any one of us? Gosh, how much can happen in one year for any one of us? Especially women who are going through the gauntlet of hormones shifting in the time where we are taking care of everybody else. So that is Perry menopause. It is that 4 to 10 plus your transition, it can happen as early as our mid-30s. Because you can imagine, if someone goes into menopause naturally at 46, 47, I know many friends of mine who went into menopause at 47 and 48 years old. And they were experiencing symptoms in their mid to late 30s. But again, because we weren't talking about it, because we were telling women that, no, there's no way they're too young. Often those symptoms, these are even functional doctors. These are medical doctors who were dismissed in their own experience. Yeah. So I go back to my own Perry menopause experience. And it really hit me hard at about 43. And my first symptom was I wasn't sleeping. And I became very agitated. Like I could, you know, somebody would do one thing. I always think about the day that I got into bed and I swear I could hear my son chewing his cereal downstairs in the kitchen. And I went downstairs and I was like, what are you doing? It's so loud down here. And he's like, mama, I was just eating cereal after soccer practice. And that was about 43. And we weren't talking about menopause then. We didn't have language for it. So help our listeners understand what those early symptoms are. Because I feel like they, I felt like the symptoms of menopause in general side-swiped me. It was like, whoa, I was this way one day and then boom. All of a sudden I'm yelling at my son for chewing cereal too loudly. Having a snack after his soccer practice. Exactly. Exactly. Mom, I'm just trying to have a snack in the kitchen. He's like, I'm just eating. I'm like, you're your existence currently right now. That's right. He's just stepped out of this house. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 43 years old was the year that I was blindsided by purring menopause as well. And I was just coming out of postpartum. My son was barely two years old. And I think for so many of us, especially the brain-related thumbs, can feel like an exacerbation of the daily pain points of everyday life. And so for me, I thought, I was like, oh, this must be my thyroid. Or, oh, I must not have recovered well from the postpartum experience. Maybe my stress response system is over-activated again. I feel like that is so often, it's a yes and for women in Perry, where as we start to lose these protective shield hormones, that by the way, are full body hormones. And as that, they become, they just start to crumble. Right? All of a sudden, we see these exacerbation of symptoms, sometimes things that we had been managing the whole time, that we had had under control until these hormones begin to drop. Other times, I feel like things were simmering under the surface and are finally up for a few. But the big thing that I hear from women, including myself, it sounds like YouTube Mindy is the brain-related symptoms, because this is a neuroendocrine transition. Just like puberty, just like postpartum, the brain is under massive reconstruction. I call it like a massive remodel. And it is happening when we have so much, I call this the higher stakes game. Because now our careers are happening. We are running households. We are managing families. We are in a sandwich generation. This is very much the messy middle. And we don't have a lot of bandwidth to begin with. We kind of need it all to run well. And when all of a sudden sleep begins to go to the wayside, we are more irritable than the normal. We have brain fog and cognitive issues. We cannot remember the words that we were trying to say. We don't even know why we walked into the room that we deliberately walked into. All of this begins to help us feel like we are losing it. Like we are crazy. Like we don't know what is going on with our bodies. I would say the brain-related symptoms are the most common symptoms. And for so many women, the most destabilizing symptoms. Because when we are having to operate at a high level, like most of the women I have always taken care of are very high-functioning. And when you start to pull the rug from under them in terms of their cognitive and their emotional resilience, it is like they are thinking, is this early dementia? Yeah. And I think that's the hardest, especially when you are used to keeping lists in your mind. All the tabs. Yeah. You are not writing stuff down. But you can do it. And then you can't. I agree. But we don't have the support in place or the knowing that this is going to happen. It can just feel like a reckoning. I call this the reckoning. I love that. And in the book, you talk about it being perimenopause being a personal catalyst. And this is something that is super near and dear to my heart. Because I think in the zeitgeist right now, we have so much of a conversation about, you're suffering, take HRT. And I'm not dismissing that. And we should definitely talk about that. But what I am really thinking through at a deeper level is, this is actually a transformational moment. So when those symptoms appear, when that brain is remodeling, there is an opportunity for you to change yourself. And I know you talk about this in the book. So talk to me a little bit like I'm a 38, 39-year-old woman. And I'm just feeling those symptoms. What advice would you give about the brain symptoms that I'm feeling? I would say, number one, is that right now is the time where you get to decide whether you're going to prioritize yourself or not. This is where the body is calling for a new level of support. Because what got us here isn't going to get us to the next level, especially the next level of health and emotional well-being. So I think that that's the first step, is deciding that you deserve to feel amazing and that you deserve to thrive. That this is going to be a transition. But that you get to level up your self-care, your sleep, your all of the strategies, the health strategies that maybe you thought you could get away with up until now. We don't get to get away with that anymore. Also, this is an opportunity if things are shifting and it feels like it's happening without permission. Because there's nothing worse than something being taken away from you or feeling like it's getting taken away from you and you weren't given a warning sign for it. You weren't warned. And there have been moments where I have even grieved my earlier version of myself. Me too. Yeah. The woman who could just like full out sprint and not have to negotiate with herself. Whether she's got capacity later on that day or the next day or the next week. And now I'm having to really shore up and ask myself what you have capacity for. What you have energy for. And then the next piece I always tell women is this is the opportunity for you to establish your boundaries, your non-negotiables, your relationships, the things that are going to move you forward in the next half of your life. And so if there are relationships, maybe it's familial, maybe it's friendships that have not been serving, it's time to shut that up. You're so true. Even the relationship with yourself, if things are coming up for review that you have kept, you've been running from or you've been pushing away, now is the time to address it. Now is the time to look in the mirror and get clear with what version of you you want to take into the second half of your life. And then number three, I think that big one is angering yourself to the health habits and being consistent with those health habits so that you are thriving, not just surviving in this transition, but also in the next. I love that list. I would agree a thousand percent with it. I can, again, going back to where I was and it's interesting because at 55, I feel like I'm looking back at perimenopause and I'm like, oh, that's where I got stuck a little bit there and I got stuck a little bit there. Now the 39, 40-year-old version of me would have said, I'm too exhausted to start to set boundaries and disappoint people. Like I'm just trying to work and handle my family life and now I need to stand up and tell people I'm not doing this anymore. I need to hold boundaries. I need to prioritize my wants. I haven't even been taught what my wants are. I think that that is like that awakening that, and I love you called the book of the perimenopausal revolution because I don't know if you use the revolution in this way, but the way I read it is like it's a revolution to start to take care of yourself first. But that transition, as you know, is a mother. It's messy. It's hard. No, my son is sick home today. At four years old and we debated, there was such a big part of me that wanted to just send him to school. He's not super sick. Right. But my husband and I sat down and we were like, we just, we have to make this work. We have to make, I've heard him like four times, girl. Oh, I'm so sorry. No, it's okay. Oh, my mama heart hurts for you. And it's the messy middle. This is the journey that we're in. And so, yeah, if you're a woman who's listening and you're in your late 30s, early 40s and you just heard me rattle off that list of like massive empowerment and stepping into your, yourself as a priority and you're thinking to yourself, I'm just trying to have, I'm just trying to pee by myself. Right, exactly. Right. Because I can't, that doesn't happen for me in my household. Yeah, right. That's not a boundary. So, peeing by yourself is a definite luxury. Or even sleeping by myself right nights of the week. Like that's where I met. How many women have little children like me that, I mean, my son's in TK right now, not even kindergarten. We're not even there yet. And so, that's where I met. And so, where I started, one, I had to reconcile. When the changes began to happen, there was a bit of a denial at first. I kept thinking like maybe I could fix this. Maybe I can clean this up. And there's a lot of things that I've done to do so. Absolutely. And some days are better than others. I wish, I wish all the hormone replacement therapy and all the lifestyle strategies and all the things are going to make every single one of your months that last week of your luteal phase, magical and incredible and make it feel like it did back in your 20s. I cannot guarantee that. Right. But what I can guarantee is if you even carve out 20 minutes for you, 20 minutes walking, 20 minutes breathing, 20 minutes reading a good fiction book, or maybe it's a nonfiction book, whatever brings you joy. The question I always love to ask myself is, what would help you feel good right now? Or how would you love to feel in the next 30 days? Like just asking, I think those types of questions that I've embedded those questions throughout the book. In the mindset chapter and the movement chapter, because it's, I think when we start to ask ourselves the potent questions that we have to answer for ourselves, that's when we start to make those decisions about your like, you know what, I'm not going to tolerate any more. I'm not going to continue this way. And it doesn't have to be a big thing. It can just be a small thing, but it can be profound. Not all of these shifts need to be massive to make a difference. Some of them can be very, very small. It was my birthday over the weekend. I, my son, is... Happy birthday! Thank you. I turned 46 years old. Ah, nice. And Kingston's sick. And so we canceled all the things, you know, mainly because I knew I had this beautiful interview with you and I've gotten a bunch of interview. But the one thing I was really clear on was time by myself. I wanted, I wanted time to journal. I wanted time to go to the ocean. I wanted time to go get my own freaking matcha by myself. That is what I was clear on. And so I think getting, having that clarity about what's going to move the needle for you, even if again, it's just a morning routine or it's an evening routine or it's 20 minutes during the day, whatever allows you to reset your system, I think is a really great place to start. Yeah. It's, do you have time by yourself? Is that fairly new as you've gone into deeper into perimenopause? Yeah. Oh yeah. And it's probably the most sacred thing I can do for me. Yeah. I have the same thing and I, and I pushed against it and pushed against it until I broke. So I just want to point out that one of the things, I'm, I'm an extrovert. I like being around people. I like human connection. But one of the things that I noticed as I got deeper and deeper into my perimenopause years is nothing calmed me or made me feel more peaceful than being by myself. And I think that a lot of that is because as these hormones shift, it's almost like our nervous system is raw. And if we get around the wrong people, the wrong situation, stressful events, it's very difficult to, to manage it because we don't have the same capacity that we had in our younger years. Is that, is that how you feel as well? I think most women, there's no break. There's no break from work to home unless you've got a bit of a commute, but you're in your fighting traffic. So that doesn't feel like a break either. Your nervous system is just on hypervigilant mode. You're running from one thing to the next, whether that's packing lunches or making sure there's socks washed, you know what I'm saying? That the list is constant and endless. And I'll tell you what. If I'm in my house, even alone, there's always things yelling at me. Oh yeah. Always. I can't go downstairs without seeing everything out of place. I can, you know, dishes that need to be handled. I went downstairs in the kitchen and I tried to put dishes in the dishwasher and the dishwasher was clean. And I was just like, because I was like, I didn't, I didn't plan for that five minutes. Yeah. So that, so that, right, exactly. The interesting thing to me about perimenopause is I do feel like it sideswipes you. Because you're just like kind of going along normal life. And then all of a sudden there's, you can't sleep. And then all of a sudden every little things are annoying you. And the next thing you know, you're sweating. And then all of a sudden you're gaining weight, but you didn't really change anything. And it's like year after year, there's just another symptom, another symptom. You talk about silent shifts. Can you explain a little more what that means? Because of all the menopausal phases, I think this is the sneakiest one, which again is why I think it's your book is so important because we need to, if we could catch it in this moment, it would make the rest of the menopausal experience so much better. This is the window of opportunity because it's the window of vulnerability. It's, it's, you know, women are calling this a zone of chaos or like the transition of chaos. The reason why we're calling it that is because the symptoms are so loud. They are so disruptive. And why think about the silent shifts that are happening behind the scenes. I think it's important to note that as you and Dr. Stacy Sims and so many of us have said over the years that we are not small men. This isn't bikini medicine where hormones are only impacting our boobs and our ovaries and our uterus. They are, they are, they are neuro modulators. They are immune system modulators. They are changing the gut microbiome. They are helping the bone to remodel. They are helping muscles to grow and build. They are affecting our insulin levels, our blood glucose variability. I'm talking every single system in the body is reliant on these chemical messages. And so when they begin to erratically decline for some of us, it is more severe than others, depending on when it starts for us. Note that there are silent shifts happening that we are not necessarily paying attention to you. And our doctors often aren't looking at as well, including we know that as estrogen drops, insulin resistance goes up. We know that glucose variability becomes more variable and we women, more women get diagnosed with prediabetes in perimenopause than any other transition. We know that blood pressure is changing. Again, unless you're looking at your blood pressure regularly, you're not going to see that silent creep towards hypertension. We also know that lipids are going up unfavorably as we start to lose estrogen because cholesterol helps to make our hormones or making them anymore. So that is shifting. Inflammation is increasing, particularly in the brain and in the gut and in the body. We know that our stress response system is more deregulated than ever before. There's these silent shifts of inflammation, of loss of bone, loss of muscle, metabolic changes, inflammation in the brain that puts our cardio metabolic health at risk. And a lot of this is happening well before we get into menopause, although we're not looking at these biomarkers, we're not looking at the DEXA scan, we're not looking at a lot of these shifts happening until after our period has ceased for more than 12 months. So would you say that the metabolic piece is the first one to work on? I like this prioritize yourself and create boundaries and start to create health habits. Do you feel like the metabolic health habits should be the first door in once you got yourself care under control? Always. I always thought about this book. Dr. Keese means is a dear friend of both of ours. I was like, this book is, is perimenopause meets good energy? That's what this book is. Yeah, it's a beautiful way to look at it. Because cellular energy is everything, Mindy. It's allowing you and me to have this conversation. It's allowing us to think, to feel, to do, and without the integrity of our cellular energy, what do we have? Right? And if the integrity of our cellular energy is becoming more compromised throughout the perimenopause transition, the more that we can shore that up in early peri or at any time in perimenopause, it is going to set us up for a more thriving, more energized version of ourselves in the second half of our lives. And so, you know, I think about how many of us, how many women is, what is it, one in five have polycystic ovarian syndrome? How many women are coming into perimenopause with some level of insulin resistance or some level of, you know, mitochondrial dysfunction? What I will say is that if we're coming into perimenopause with that, if we don't make changes that shore up our metabolic health and our cellular energy, we are going to be spit out on the other side into menopause, less resilient, less energized, and less able to function. This is where the chronic conditions begin to arise. Although they are developing in perimenopause, it's not until you literally are late 50s, early 60s, do we really begin to see them present? But by then, it's a little too late. Yeah. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I just noticed, gosh, I'm gaining belly weight. What would you recommend? Like what I hope people are getting is like, these early signs are massively important. So I've been 20s and 30s, I rocked my fitness 40 all of a sudden. What's that belly doing? Why is that showing up? What how do I, what would your advice be when you see the subtle signs of that? Metabolic dysfunction. Yeah. Because let's call belly fat when it is. It's a subtle sign of metabolic dysfunction. It is a sign of insulin resistance. I would say first thing is let's get your blood sugar balanced because your blood sugar is your biggest barometer for your cellular energy. Now I get that body composition changes, no fun. So there's some things that we can do about that, but I'm always thinking from that metabolic perspective of like, how do we ensure that we walk back that creep towards pre-beities? Because that's that, that belly fat, that especially the visceral belly fat in a lot of ways, it's its own endocrine organ with its own cytokines, its own inflammation and it's spiraling even more insulin resistance. So let's start with the meals. Let's start with protein, fiber, healthy fats, eliminating liquid sugars, eliminating ultra processed foods. I think we can, no matter what, you know, like what you've been indoctrinated into with terms of nutrition advice, I think we can all agree that getting rid of ultra processed foods is one of the first things that we need to do. And I get how easy it is, especially in perimenopause when you're like, I'm just trying to get by, but cooking real food, giving yourself gaps, giving yourself, you know, honor your circadian rhythm, making sure that you're doing at least a 12 hour fast at night so that you are ending dinner three hours before bed and then you're breaking your fast with, again, protein, healthy fats and fiber so that you are staying sedated until you are getting to lunch. I think that's going to be one of the first things that you can do. A big part of this book, two chapters devoted to the perimenopause revolution is movement. I've always believed that movement is life, but one of the things that I've walked away from in my own experience, this journey and also helping so many women walk through it, call it walking through the fire, is that we need to build our lives around movement. That's what we need to do, especially after meals. We know that, I think new research just came out that if you were to walk only 10 to 15 minutes after meals, it is actually more effective at supporting your cellular energy than a 60 minute walk some other time during the day. Just those micro movements after meals makes a profound difference. Probably one of the biggest ways that we can balance our blood sugar. That's the number one thing I tell people. One, eat to balance your blood sugar. Two, move to balance your blood sugar. And then three, sleep. Like it's a million dollar meeting. I say that. That's a good one, except for how do you get there? How do you get to sleep? How do you get there? I've tried prioritizing it for years and have come up with finally some strategies. But before we go into sleep, I want to go back to what you said about the Western standard diet. I don't want people to miss this. What I hear you saying is that those habits of going through McDonald's at midnight or the pole for, you know, it doesn't even have to be, it can be less insidious. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Or I, you know, I got it. I finally got my soda habit down from 10 sodas a day to one soda a day. All those, and a lot of I've sat and read a lot of Dutch tests and blood work of people who have just been eating out all the time and even eating out at good restaurants. You're getting the bad oils and you're not getting the organic ingredients. So what I heard you say is that habit might have worked for you up until 40, but when you go into perimenopause, that needs to be something you stop. Or it needs to be something you're adjusting very quickly. Yeah. Yeah. I would say, you know, I get it. I'm a mom who works. We've talked a little bit about that already. I'm a mom who's, I'm going to go straight into mom mode after this interview is done. Like there's no buffer for me today. And one way or the other, we're cooking. I'm cooking. I'm in the kitchen cooking. Like if there's, if there's time spent away from my son, away from doing whatever else I'm doing in life, it is in the kitchen cooking real food for my family and cooking with my family. I mean, if that's, and I get that it is a time suck. I get that it is, you know, taken away from all, all the other things, but I don't know if there is anything else more invaluable to your health than actually knowing the food that you're preparing for you and your family and committing to the time to, to cook it. Yeah. And we can get strategic about batch cooking and about, you know, getting roasting and sauteing. I mean, there's a lot of ways to kind of even cheat, making healthy foods in your kitchen, but time in our kitchen is probably what some of the best spent for ourselves and our family. Yeah. You know, a couple of thoughts on that. I think that's just a little mama advice to you. I made sure with my son that he was going to be in the kitchen with me all the time. I was like, you're not going to grow up and be like, I don't know how to make a meal. And so we cooked all the time. And you know, now he's a professional chef. He chose that as a career. And I feel so like validated. I'm like, yeah, because from two and three and years old, I was like, you're going to be, know how to work, you know, be in a kitchen. So the second thing I want to say, and I always go back to this idea that maybe we got menopause wrong because the modern world has really taken us out of alignment with our evolutionary design. And one of the things we did evolutionary wise is we used our hands a lot. You know, they, they had to muddle things and they, because they didn't have, you know, sharp knives and they had to dig. And I, one of my favorite interviews on this podcast was with a movement expert, Katie Bowman. And she was saying that we got to look at being in the kitchen as a, as a, as a form of fitness because you have to whisk and you have to need and you have to use your hands. And when we look at the studies on grip strength and longevity, we know that people have stronger hand strength and live longer lives. So I think it's pretty cool what you're saying of like go into the kitchen, like at 40, it might be like put the door, take the DoorDash app off your phone and start to get yourself into the kitchen and start moving, being in there, not just for connection or relationship with your family and not just for your health, but because there's a fitness level you can, you can create in the kitchen. Lulule, I mean, we're talking about neat, right? Not exercise activity, thermogenesis, which is a big part of this book. Let's be honest, 66% of Americans, adult Americans are not even meeting the movement requirements, right? Most of us are very sedentary. I think the average adult clocks less than 4,500 steps a day. And when, so that's how I started the first, the first of the two movement chapters was talking about neat, because we can easily increase our neat with folding clothes, standing up, being in the kitchen more, doing chores around the kitchen, cleaning up after we make dinner in the kitchen. You know, it's those types of things that add up over time that improve our fitness or at least improve our physical activity. You know, when I look at the research from the Blue Zones, they're not in the gyms. They're not going to hit classes. They're not doing power yoga. Yep. No, they are just moving. They are kneading. They are gardening. They are walking to the grocery store and grabbing bread and milk and veggies. They do that every single day. That is just a part of the fabric of their every single day lives. Yeah. Is that they are constantly physically active. And so I think we need to be thinking about our life in a way of how can I stay in movement? So when I was talking about building life around movement, I didn't necessarily mean building your life around jump squats. I mean, not that you can't do that. Just by all means. After this, I'm going to do a couple of jump squats and then I'm going to go downstairs. But I mean, how can we be in the kitchen, unloading the dishwasher, sweeping the floor, being in the, in the kitchen with our family, cooking meals, prepping meals. That's the type of movement. You know, again, folding laundry or sweeping the floor, all those types of things that adds up over time. And I get that's not necessarily, if that's not where you want to always spend your time, it could be a walk with your family. It could be a solo walk, a voice, memory, your bestie. There's a lot of ways that we can move our body in a meaningful way. That is not a hit class or time in the gym. Not that there isn't. I love being in the gym as well. I was already in the gym today, but that is helping you to be more physically active. Do you feel like there's a movement shift that needs to happen as you go into perimenopause as your hormones? Like, like if you're a crossfitter and you're a crossfit champion, like, do you, can you stay being a crossfit champion through your home, a perimenopausal experience? I can't. And, you know, and, and, and, you know what, amen to the crossfit champions out there that are making work or the sprint champions out there that are making it work, I would say, like getting where you fit in. For me, I was burning out of hit workouts in my thirties. Well, before 43 became, became my new normal before perimenopause was really available, like really able to me and all of its changes. So I would say, I mean, for me, it's I love lifting weights. So I think lifting weights and maintaining that muscle is super important. That is your metabolic sink. But no, let's look at movement in terms of walking, yoga, mobility, again, meat. You're just moving your body in a meaningful way. I think that's where it's at. Keep maintaining your muscle, but move, move your body. And if you don't love, like, I don't want anyone moving in a way that they're just like, this is awful. I don't want to do this. Like it should be in the meaningful in the sense that you enjoy it. So for me, you know, I don't, there's some types of movement that are just for me, but others that I really love. And I think as long as you're loving what you're doing and it involves you moving your body, I'm a full body. Yes. If you are a puddle on the floor after a workout in the morning and you're not able to function for the rest of your day or show up in a way that that you want to show up for it with the people that matter to you, with the work that matters to you, then you really need to renegotiate the type of movement you're doing. Right. Okay. And so what do you think of these things like wrecking? Racking has become so freaking controversial, which just I even my best friend messaged me because I got her rocking. She's a couple of years older than me and she's like sending me all these articles. Like I'm so confused now. I don't know if I should rock or not rock. And I, I, I feel like why are we, why are we attacking rocking? Talk to me about it. I've longed this. I mean, we invest in rocking. It's become the thing. Anytime something becomes the thing, right? Then it's, it's up for discussion. Yeah. Up for debate. I think what's really up for debate is the claims that are being made that we cannot substantiate fully with research. So for example, we also have people using rocking vests while they're working out and, you know, just do it a lot of things. And so it's, you know, it's interesting, particularly us as women, I think what I really, what I, what I always point to is how we as women, man, we know how to overdo it. Yeah. We know how to lose feeling. True. Yeah, that's true. We know how to take something and then take it to a max. God forbid we don't go all the freaking way with something. So when it comes to weighted vest or rocking, I think that there's a lot of benefits, but I think you have to know your body. I need it. Is it hurting your knees? Are you finding yourself with more joint pain, more inflammation in your joints? If that's the case, then I would maybe minimize the amount of rocking doing it specifically for bone density. I think that's the big argument is that we just don't have enough research to substantiate that it's actually helping us to build bone. You are better off actually jumping and hopping and weight training when it comes to bone density. So I think those are the things that are under fire is that we're making a lot of claims around it and it's, we're kind of blowing it up. And I think women are actually overdoing it and getting a little bit injured. And so I would just maybe take it back a notch. Yeah. Walking for, you know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes with a ruck, with a rucking backpack or with a weighted vest, I think is great. And if it gets you to move more, even better still. But if you're doing it as your own way of helping to preserve muscle and bone, I don't want it to negate the fact that you've got to be lightweight and you've got to be training in a meaningful way at least a couple of times a week. Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Really well said. I would talk, let's talk about sleep because I would say, I'll tell you something really interesting and my, my followers probably don't even know this. From doing over 2000 videos on YouTube, we get a lot of data on what people are watching, what they're not watching and who's watching what they're watching it. Yeah. Exactly. So that, so the, the two things that I see are, are challenging women the most during Perry menopause is menopausal belly weight and, and not being able to sleep. And I recently came, went down a rabbit hole of understanding, why can't we sleep? I originally thought it was because we are losing progesterone. And then I found some really interesting research that showed that estradiol actually went up into the brain and helped the part of the brain that was the internal clock keep timekeeper understand where you were in the day. So when estradiol declines, now the clock is off. Yeah. Yeah. Your circadian rhythm is off. Yeah. So, so that's another one. My 40 year old self should have known. Why didn't, why didn't somebody tell me that at 40? I might have not yelled at my son when he was chewing his cereal too loud. So what do we need to know about resetting our circadian rhythm during these years? Yeah, I just want to say, you know, estrogen, she needs, she needs all the accolades. Yeah, she's, what was keeping. Yeah, she was. Keeping your tummy tight. Yeah. She was keeping your sleep going. She was keeping your brain sharp. She was keeping you a stable and just having that well being. Now, mind you, she isn't the only hormone declining, but she is the master CEO of the brain. Yeah. And I always joke, let's say for 35 years or 20, 25 to 35 years, that CEO showed up at 9 a.m. every day and she went home at 6 p.m. Every single day, late clockwork, rhythmically, your body, if it was one thing that it could rely on, it was estrogen showing up consistently. And then one day she doesn't. Yep. She doesn't show up to work until two in the afternoon, doesn't call in, doesn't tell anybody she's running late, doesn't show up till two. Doesn't leave till 11. Then doesn't come to work until 11 the next day. And then stays until 2 a.m. And then doesn't come to work the next. So it's just this inconsistency. The brain is doing its very best to try to recalibrate at a time where it just, it doesn't even know if estrogen is going to show up to the party or not. That's what's going on. And so circadian rhythm is a major part here. You know, neurogenesis. So the development of neurons in the brain is being ran and modulated by our estrogen. Also our mood, our sleep, our, even how, even our hunger centers are being, being modulated by, and it's not the only hormone, unfortunately, that is declining or, or changing. We know that cortisol is deregulating and that can keep us up, especially those 3 a.m., 4 a.m., 5 a.m. wakes where it's, it's that little cortisol peak that shouldn't be enough to wake us up, but it is waking us up, especially if our other sleep hormones like melatonin didn't, didn't show up significantly as well. So we know melatonin is declining, progesterones declining, estrogen is declining. All of these hormones are significant to the brain and to our sleep wake cycle. So how do I bring it back? I mean, that's, like, besides HRT. Yeah. Besides HRT, like, how do we bring it back? I would say one, number one, it's getting really, really disciplined about our sleep routine. And, and I think that's going to be foundational. Just like movement is foundational, just like eating metabolically healthy foods is foundational, just like having a circadian fast every single night is foundational. These things are foundational. And so gone are the days where you can just run into bed and expect to just fall asleep. That's it. Gone are the days where you could have your TV on in your room while you go to bed at night. It's none of this doesn't work anymore. So I say, I mean, it's about consistency. It's about honoring a routine that works for you. So for some of us, it's going to start at eight o'clock in the evening. Some of us can be nine o'clock in the evening. But please, like, set the temperature for the room, set the lights appropriately, wear blue blockers if you have to, retire the screens an hour before bed. Take, take your sleepy tea, take your magnesium, take your sleep supplements. Take all the things, like do it all, like 45 minutes to an hour before bed. And just honor that time. Like for me, it's a book. It's there's something about reading lines on a page. My brain is like, OK, I get it. You have to say what kind of book you read because you are like, you're the queen of this genre. And I love it. I love how you're like, you're so it's such a fan. I am. I'm well, I'm right now. It's the fall when we're kind of kind of will we just turned everything over this weekend to fall all the things in my house. So I am reading a win series. It's called The Discovery of Witches. I actually was a TV show developed. It's a trilogy. So it's a it's a witchy. I'm in my I'm in my witchy era right now, reading my witchy books. So that's what I'm reading. But I don't know. Is it a romance to see? I hope so. Better be because if I'm committing to three books, if there better be something in these books, I'm guessing there is because they wouldn't have made it into a series. If I actually one thing I noticed in Perry Manipaz is I couldn't read nonfiction before I went to bed because it got my brain to. Because it got your brain. Yeah. All of a sudden, we're already trying to solve the world's problems. It's already our responsibility to begin with. So yeah, don't don't give yourself a lot of things to have to think about. Don't don't don't try to solve whatever that situation is or especially the personal. Maybe it's like, oh, my gosh, I really need to set those boundaries with my mother-in-law. Whatever. I don't like read something. You'll be up till two in the morning. I think that needs to be a part of the sleep routine. I I used your mother-in-law sitting next to you saying, she didn't even ask. She's like, listen, we're going to have a deep conversation right now. And I'm OK. Well, but it was good. It was a good one. It wasn't like a conversation. So yeah, but with these personal development books, they can be a little bit they can require too much of your brain working. So pick a good fiction book. There's so many great fiction books out there. I could rattle off a bunch of my thing now that are just really lovely and don't require a lot of brain effort. But or it's a sleep routine in terms of breathwork and meditation, whatever experiment what works for you. But the one thing I will say is being consistent. And the thing that has been the most game changing for me, that I was just really sloppy and messy with up until this last year or two. It's I go to bed the exact same time every single night. I get up at the same time every single day. If your circadian rhythm is all over the place, you've got social jet lag. I don't even even perjury. You know, a person who's thrown ain't going to get the job done. Like you've got to be consistent. You deserve that consistency. You deserve and you need that sleep to function. I don't know about you, Mindi. Sleep is going to make or break me any day of the week. For sure. I can't afford it. Also, stop the wind down in terms of wine and alcohol. Like I know you may think that it's helping you get to sleep. I have a feeling that this group of women, you're not doing it. But just in case you are and you think it's helpful, man, or a whoop strap or an oar ring, let me tell you, everything is in the garbage the next day. Your heart rate variability, your resting heart rate, your sleep score. I mean, even how you feel, I mean, there are nights where my sleep, whatever is going on with it, I already feel hungover in the morning as it is. Like I don't need alcohol to do that for me. Yeah. You know, one couple of tricks I've done on alcohol that I think just to to throw it out there is have it earlier. Have a glass, one glass, maybe at five, but let three, four hours go away. But like let it get metabolized through your system because it's interesting that it'll raise your core temperature and then all of a sudden at two in the morning, you wake up. Night sweats. I mean, you want some of those. Alcohol will do it for you. Right. You know. Yeah. And then the other thing is have it with a really big meal so it gets like absorbed. So yeah, I was going to say have it with dinner, have dinner early. Yeah. You know, this is gone of the days. I don't know. Yeah. Gosh, I got a dinner invite for 8 p.m. And I was like, what? Yeah. What? Yeah. What is this? Oh my God. All all my friends, I love it. Like all my friends that are in Perry, Menopause and Menopause. And when we make dinner plans, I'm like five o'clock, right? Five o'clock. Yeah. Right. Five o'clock. Everybody can all be back by seven thirty. Can we just be back home? Yeah, I just so yeah. So eating one, our blood sugar, we can I can feel it. If I eat too late, my body's like, what are you? What are we doing? Right? What's going on? I was just in Mexico City two weeks ago and we were at dinner at five o'clock. Nobody, nobody was at the restaurant. Like everyone eats at eight o'clock or later. And I'm like, how do people do this? But that's how you get a reservation at a really good restaurant. We have like so many times we've been like, oh, we should go here on a Saturday night. I'm like five o'clock and my husband, my husband will be like, yeah, I got a reservation and then we go in and the restaurants just packed as we sit there. I'm like, yeah, because we're five o'clock. But I don't understand how that's possible. There are 20, there's 75 million women in perimenopause and menopause. I know we all got the memo. Yeah, right. Exactly. I'm so amazed that these restaurants are packed at five and six o'clock. I mean, they need a menopausal hour. They need like a perimenopausal, like not like a happy hour, but like perimenopausal. No, with a blood sugar friendly mop tail. Because yeah, I mean, we you feel it. I always say anything after 7 p.m. is late night eating. Let's just call it. I mean, it's only going to my butt. Yeah. You know, like it's all I'm not I'm not working that off in the gym. I'm you know, like we're winding down at that point. So I say, you know, in the dinner, have that mean if you want the red wine on a Friday night with your Italian dinner by all means, but do it at three in the afternoon. Exactly. You take three or five. If I was a lady. Exactly. Always go for a walk after that meal. So you're metabolizing that so that your body is really ready for sleep. So when I think about sleep, I mean, I'm reverse engineering it from as early as the morning. Yeah, like I get up and within the first hour, I wake up before my son because God forbid, if I want any time to myself, that has to be before he's awake. I go outside, I get my feet in the grass. You know, if you want to raise your heart rate variability, get your feet in ground. And that's going to be the number one way that I know how to do it. Like if I want to see five points on my heart rate variability, I just make sure that I'm grounding every morning and every evening. Be outside, get in nature. Yes, have your coffee too at the same time. It's a yes and I'm not saying you have to do one with there. And that is helping to reset your circadian rhythm as well. So honoring that circadian rhythm is so important. If you're still struggling again, there's some pretty crazy. I mean, there's some pretty crazy sleepy teas out there, some pretty crazy sleepy, you know, when I have supplements that I take personally that help with sleep. And also I cycle progesterone. I mean, I do do those things. Luckily, I haven't had sleep issues yet in outside of just motherhood. I feel like motherhood. Okay, where so, so there's a discussion that's going on in the culture right now that that I feel very conflicted on. And it's really the resurgence of HRT. And here's why I feel conflicted on it is I feel like it's overshadowing the lifestyle changes that we need to make and all medication. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, and I'm just going to be really transparent. I had a meeting with my OB. You know her Dr. Fleece Gersh. She's in mine. She's yours too. She's my she's the best OB. In fact, we I hate sending people to her because then I can't get an appointment. I know. I met with her at 7 30 in the morning on a Saturday. No, she's I mean, amen to her. Amen to her. Yeah, being willing to see me on a Saturday at 7 30 in the morning. Yes. She's like iconic. She's in her seventies. And I tell her she can never, ever leave practice because we're all we're all, you know, benefiting from what she's saying. But the other we what we do with HRT with me is that she puts me on the on the lowest dose and then every 90 days we check like we're still trying to get the dose down. And so the other day we were talking about HRT and she said to me, well, you know the big pharma playbook, right? And I was like, what's a big pharma playbook? And she said that she goes, I've been in practice for so long. I can see it is they put health influencers out there, you know, and before it was authors and then it was, you know, magazine, people in magazines now it's social media. They put books out there like, Hey, this is there. You really need to be on HRT and they create a demand for it. And as they create a demand for it, then all of a sudden everybody listens to the demand and they go rushing to their doctors and they ask for it. And this is how we start to get big, you know, big pharma starts to make money. They did this with Osempic. They've done this with anti-depressants. They've done it with statins. Like you put somebody out there saying we need it and then they create the demand for it. I'm not saying that the people that are talking about it are bad or being paid. I really want to make sure I'm clear on that. But where I'm confused and where I may be a little bit sad is that what's happening is we're slowly as the HRT conversation is getting louder and louder is lifestyle is disappearing. And I brought Dr. Mary Claire Haver on here a couple of years ago and asked her, if you take HRT, is that a free pass from lifestyle? And she was like, absolutely not. And so I just so we can keep, I feel like the, the PR agency for lifestyle. And I know you're a part of this. Where do you see this balance of HRT and lifestyle? How do we ride both, both channels and, and use it to our perimenopausal benefit? First, I want to say that I believe wholeheartedly that women deserve all the tools in the toolbox. Yeah. Well, and that we have been denied many of those tools for too long. And as a result, 66 million women are on SSRIs. And, you know, anti-anxiety medications. And a lot of us are on all kinds of other medications as a result of both a combination of lifestyle and not having access to hormone replacement B. Of all the pillars in the book, this is the last pillar because it's an optimizer. Ooh, I will say I'm on HRT. I'm obviously working with Felice. That's what she does. You know, I'm on HRT. She's pro. And me too. I just want to say me too. Yes. And I will tell you that when it comes to mitigating my symptoms, it is not HRT that's mitigating my symptoms. So well said. So well said. Tell me. It's lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah. Can you give an example of that? Because I was actually, and again, I'm just being really transparent. I was talking to my agent this morning and she's in her sixties and she was telling me that a lot of her friends who are so enamored with HRT are starting to become disillusioned because they were putting patches on and rubbing creams and thinking it's not working. That all the problems are going. It's not doing exactly. I think we think it's this catch-all band-aid. I mean, that's exactly what we're, in a lot of ways, that's the marketing around it. Is that it's the thing that we've been denied and it's the thing that's going to solve all of our problems. And it's not. You know, and I do talk, I mean, it's interesting kind of writing the line because that's literally what this book is all about is one showing you, demonstrating how mission critical these hormones are because they are. And we can feel it when they begin to erratically decline. And I think the reason why we really feel it is that it's so erratic. It's not, this isn't a linear decline. It isn't a slow retirement out. It is like a Treyrec, you know, rolling in front of our eyes. It's a roller coaster ride and it can feel so destabilizing. I always want to honor that and I want women to understand why, because the fact that women keep getting gaslit and dismissed when they are going through the subjective brain related and body physical symptoms, just, it just angers me so much. And with that said, you know, I'm not going to pretend like I was doing all the right things heading into peri-metapause. There was definitely some work to be had, some cleanup, but most importantly for me, a lot of it was regulating my nervous system. My stress response system was on overdrive. And let me tell you, that doesn't lend to any of those other symptoms leveling out. Like it makes them worse. I would say that the silent savateur of all of this is often a deregulated stress response system. And I get that so many of us are, but let me tell you what doesn't fix a deregulated nervous system, HRT. So well said. Thank you. Thank you. And I want to say that and I want everybody to hear this. Like I've tried everything done, everything. I'm like a human guinea pig. And the one thing that I know exacerbates my menopausal symptoms, even three years post menopausal is when I am, my nervous system is dysregulated. So thank you for saying that, because this is where we're, we're setting women up for failure. Because that stress response system that is overdoing it, it is causing the sleep issues as well. Yeah. It is causing the, the exhaustion, the burnout, the mood swings, the irritability, the rage, that is all kind of being, I would say like, it's like a tornado, right? It's, it's, it's making things worse, exacerbating those symptoms. And so if, if, if your nervous system is deregulated and goodness knows that there was a time for your nervous system to be on the fritz, it is Dureen Perry menopause. And I have not found any HRT solution at all to address it. And so for me, you know, I was, I was just being interviewed with by a dear friend a couple of days ago and she said, you know, this interview should just be about walking. She said, because that is your solution to everything. And I was like, it's, then I walk by myself, I walk multiple times a day, more so because in Perry menopause, I have felt like I am always at a tipping point with my stress. Yep. It's always kind of at like, at the brink of tipping over. Right. And one of the most free, like free, easy, effective things that will regulate me and balance my blood sugar and help support my circadian rhythms. It's going to be movement. Yep. It's walking. Yep. And so it's, it's eating to reduce inflammation and to fuel my body. It's moving my body. It's protecting my sleep. And it is, it is carving out time for myself and community. Yeah. Those are the needle movers that form on replacement therapy is not taking care of for me. Yeah. Oh, that was so well said. And, you know, when you break down walking that bilateral stimulation, right, left, right, left, that helps to actually calm the brain because the brain knows it's like, oh, you're moving away from the stressor. I went when the, during the pandemic, I became like a walking nut. I literally like anytime I got, and I was, so during the pandemic, I was like in my late 40s. So I was in the thick of Perry menopause. And every time I was like, Oh my God, am I going to be able to keep my office afloat? Oh my God. Or is my son had a hole. It was in his senior year in high school and he lost all the coaches that were going to sign him for soccer were completely gone. And I was watching his whole future completely fall apart. Little, I would just put my AirPods in and I'd be like out the door and my husband would be like, you're going again. I'm like, yeah, I know this is my 10th walk today, but this is the only thing that calms my brain. Especially being in nature. Yeah. Just having that time to yourself and it can be by yourself. It can be listening to a podcast. It can be listening to a book for me. Where I, where the juice is really worth the squeeze is sending voice memos to my besties. Yeah, you do that. Wow. I was so windy. You know, you're good. I'm going to, I'll send you some back when I walk. It's just, you know, in that, even if you're not able to talk to that person one on one, right? Then air in that moment, just even reaching out to ask how a friend is doing. Because let me tell you, we are in it together. Whether you're in Perry menopause or menopause or post menopause, wherever you find yourself in this journey, having people that you get to do this journey with helps you to feel more, just more well in your body, more well in your emotional wellbeing helps you feel like you're not alone. You're not crazy. You're in this with a team of people that are supporting you who totally get it. And so that to me, move there. The benefits of movement are so great. I mean, if I could bottle it, I would, you know, because it's so, it's so profound. And, you know, I will say that one of the things I said recently to a friend of mine was that HRT isn't going to lift the weights for you. It's not going to walk you, you know, but I know that some women are struggling emotionally and mentally and they're struggling with the motivation. They're struggling with the confidence and the joy and they just feel flat. And sometimes hormone replacement therapy can get them back to a state of equilibrium, especially with their brain that moves them out the door. So I'm not saying that HRT can't provide a win, but leverage that win towards a lifestyle. Lifestyle is the only thing that is going to guarantee that you are not negotiating with yourself later in life. It's going to guarantee that you have the freedom to travel and to get out of your car and to get off the toilet seat and to get off the floor with your grandchild. That's what lifestyle is going to give you. HRT isn't going to give you that. So I think it's important that although it's a beautiful optimizer, thank God, it's a tool that we can use. Please do not stop being consistent with your lifestyle. Do not stop being consistent with the pillars that are going to move the needle in the most meaningful way. And that is movement, that is eating, that is optimizing your circadian rhythm, that is community, that is protecting your mental health. Like it's the most important thing ever that is building in self care, that is honoring and prioritizing you. Those are the needle movers. Those are what's going to help you feel more alive stepping into the second health of your life. Boom! That was a mic drop. That was so good. So thank you so much. I really, you know, I've done a lot of conversations on my podcast about HRT of all kinds, the pros, the cons. I've done a lot of lifestyle. I'm really trying to help people, women specifically, obviously think for themselves. And I just really appreciate the fact that you are really doubling down on these lifestyle tools. So, so thank you for that. And I also appreciate that we're now writing books that are separating out Perry Manapause because it is such a vulnerable time. And as people are waking up to it, they need to not just start to search for the right doctor, but they need books like yours where they can understand how to start living a different lifestyle. So with, so thank you. And with that in mind, how do people find your book? I'm sure you've got some like giveaways and things like that. Talk to me about that. Such big giveaways. So yeah, so I mean, the book is available right now. I'm guessing for pre-order, but here's the thing. The way that I stacked the bonuses, I call it the Perry Manapause Power Toolkit. It's all of my workout videos, all of my exercise snack routines, meal plans, recipes, self care, morning and evening routine, all the things that you need to move the needle today so that you feel like a different person in 10 days from now. I built them all into the bonuses. You don't have to wait for the book to get started. You can literally start today. And that one thing, if you had to walk away with one thing today to start with is just carving out an extra five to 10 minutes for your morning routine and your evening routine, just for you, because you deserve it. You deserve to prioritize you. And if that means a little walk in the morning before everyone wakes up, then do it. If that means reading a really good fantasy book before going to bed, you get to have that. It's yours. So all of the bonuses are there. You can get the book anywhere books are sold, but go to drmarisa.com forward slash book to get all the bonuses. And I read the book for Audible. It's going to be available for a book. And you can find me also on Energized with Dr. Marisa. I'm sure I'm going to be having Dr. Mindy Pells back on, really. And you can find me on Instagram at Dr. Marisa, d-r-m-a-r-i-z-a. I just adore you. You I feel more energized after this conversation than when I started. So thank you for everything you're doing and everybody go get the book. And let's all start working on the principles and come together on what's working, what's what we need help on. And I just appreciate you. And I hope I hope you get a little break. You don't have to go back to a four year old that's sick. Go go go do something for five minutes before that happens. So I am. I'm just going to lock myself in the office. Yeah, good idea. I'm in here. Good. It's fine. Good idea. So so appreciate you. We'll leave all those links and good luck with with everything around the book. Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we'd love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.