Michelin Guide Controversy, New Year’s Goals and the Internet's Favorite Phyllo Cake!!

This week on the Chef's Cut, we are talking about no resolutions, but goals for 2026. I want a TV show. I want a host to show. We're going to try the viral Filo cake that 4.8 million people are talking about. Look at the cross section. And Joe and I have a bone to pick with the Michelin guy. I'm like, are they racist or are they cuisine-ist? We are back, baby. Joe, what's up? Happy holidays. Happy new year. A-C, happy new year. Happy holidays. We're so back. I missed it so much. I did too. I really miss like getting together to talk about all the things. I know. I was getting everything set up today. I was getting excited. I was like, all right, here we go. Back into the lab, if you will. Yes, right? This is so exciting. And it is a whole new year. It's 2026. And we left a lot on the table at the end of 2025. But for this year, Joe, are you a resolution person? So I'm not like a resolution person. Like this year, I'm going to stop whatever. But I am a goal person. Me and my chefs, we sit around and we set a goal. We set one personal, one professional, and then one, we call it a team goal. So I'm big into that. I like setting goals and I like being able to look back at them and be like, all right. You know, like what did we accomplish last year? Yeah, especially when you put it on record, like you're accountable for it. And especially the people around you will be holding you accountable too. Because I remember, you know, it was the year after I took over Boulevard and it got to my goals. They said, what are you going to do? And I said, I'm going to sign a lease this year. And I remember like, you know, to Quad sit there, and his eyes got like this big. He's like, you know what? I was like, I'm going to sign a lease this year and we're going to, you know, we're going to open another restaurant. Wow. Was that for Il Car Chofo? Uh huh. Well, that it was like, you know, being able to sit them there with them in the next year and they were like, you said it. And I was like, you know, it's cool to like, you know, accomplish goals together. How about you got a resolution, some goals? I don't do resolutions. They don't work for me even when I set them for myself. Yeah. So I like goals. That that seems like something that I think I could, I could get with. All right. So how about, how about this year? We get you on the, on the goal train. I like this resolution. Let's not restrict ourselves. We're attacking this year. I like it. Let's go. We are wild tigers running through the jungle, attacking 2026. All right. So my two goals I want from you for the year. I'll give you mine as well. But I think one would be something professional. Okay. For yourself. Um, that's got to be cooking related. Not just like, Oh, you know, I want to be in New York Times, but again, you know, like, I don't want to hear it. And, uh, but like something cooking related. Okay. I guess if it's a cookbook that counts too. Yeah. Um, I'll give you that one. Uh, and I want travel related. I want to know where you want to go this year. Let's go domestic though. I think we can get into abroad, but I would like to say specifically, you and I both traveled quite a bit, but give me a spot. It doesn't have to be continental us, but us. Mm hmm. Okay. You're like this year, never been to this place. Huh. I really want to go. I like that. Okay. I think I have a place in mind, but let's start with professional professionally. And this is going to sound weird because this is something I never thought I would be doing in my career in the first place. Mm hmm. I want a TV show. I want a host to show. No. I want to be the host of a show. Like what kind of show? Like cooking competition show or like Adrian's adventures. I mean, I come along with me as we tour rural Arkansas and hog hunt. Oh my God, I would love that. But yeah, I wanted to be either cooking related where I'm cooking on camera with people, you know, some kind of format like that or digging into the stories of the people who create food and the people in hospitality because there are so many awesome people doing really cool stuff all around the country, all around the world. So I wanted to be either about the people who create the food and the food that they're making or cooking in the studio kind of thing. I don't think I'm going to challenge you on that. I think that's. But everything is competition. I feel like. Yeah, everything is competition, but I think that's kind of like where your career is just kind of gone. Right. And it's so. You do a lot of TV. I never thought I would be doing. You do a lot of judging. You know what I mean? You know, you wrote the book, you have the pop-up series, like you do all these things. You know, I think it's it's a natural progression of like of a want and you know what I mean? Something that makes sense for you. As a younger chef, it's one of those things that like you felt like you would never say that out loud. You know, it's like real. Yeah, we were coming out. Totally different. It was like if somebody was like you're a TV chef, it was like. Oh, you're not a real chef. It was like I'd rather you call me anything. You know, it's like, oh, it's like, oh, what do you want to be on TV? Right. It's like, no, I would never go on TV. No, I'm a real, I'm a real chef. I'm a real chef. Yeah, I'm a restaurant. Look at these birds. Yeah. Yeah, look at these birds. Look at the look at look at my knife. It's Japanese. It is a dragon on it. I have a dragon on my knife. I'm not a silly chef. Yeah. So that's it's something that I've I've grown and I've evolved and I'm doing stuff in my career that I never saw myself doing one of them is television because I also thought I would be in a kitchen my entire career. And things have changed, like you said. So I'm really excited about it. And I actually like doing it more than I ever. I didn't know how much fun it was. It's pretty fucking awesome. You get to meet really cool people and learn about new food and go new places. It's really fun. I love it. I love that. Yeah. All right. So give me the other one. Where were we going? OK, travel wise, I would love to go, you know, a place that I've never really spent much time and this is going to sound weird because I've been there. I was actually there with you. Colorado. Have you never been to Colorado besides for our season? Besides Top Chef, I may have like I've flown through the Denver Airport. I've been to Aspen for food and wine, but I have never like just experienced going to Colorado to try restaurants, try the food, like the whole four corners cuisine, you know, it's Southwest, but it's different. Like I've actually never been here. It's one of my favorite places. It was one of my favorite places long before Top Chef. I love it. I think it's unbelievably beautiful. There is really good food there. There's really great chefs out there. The mountain towns are incredible. They're cool. They have character. They're fun. It's just such a such an interesting place to me. I think especially being from the Midwest, you know, I mean, right? Where it's like, you know, you go from Chicago to New York, you're like, this place makes sense, right? It's like just a more augmented version of what we know. It's just the same city, just denser. Right. And then you go to like LA or San Francisco and you're like, OK, this is just like water or more condensed or more spread out or you don't mean like whatever. But like you go and like I feel like when you land in Colorado and like you're in the mountains, you're like, this is different. This is completely different. Like this is this is wild. I've been hearing really good things about the food. And I've always wanted to just like that scenery that that like just vast landscape, the greenery, the mountains and the hills. Yeah. That's something that I don't really see very often. So that's that's the place that I want to go. But what about you? What is a professional and a domestic travel goal for you? So my professional goal, this has been one. That I've had in the back of my head kind of for years and I haven't had kind of the time or energy to really like pull it off. But I've wanted to do I've been like obsessed with this idea of starting like in industry like book club. Like where I want to have like a book club for like cooks, chefs. And where it's like once a month, we like meet and have coffee and we like talk about a cookbook we all read. Oh, I love that. And like maybe somebody cooks something from it. Chicago. No, it does limited to Chicago. It would be a very local thing, but I think it'd be a cool thing for to connect where it's like you don't have to be the chef of a restaurant. You can just be a cook who wants to come and is reading the book that we're reading. And like you just sit around and like drink coffee and talk about, you know, like, especially like old cookbooks, like it's just something I always thought would be a really cool idea. And I'd like to do that at least once this year, or I'd like to be able to like sit down and like talk about cookbooks with like, you know, and it doesn't matter. Like it'd be cool if like I didn't know like some of the people like they just showed up and they were like, oh, I want to do this. Yeah, yeah. That would make it so much more interesting. And I know some people have like cookbook book clubs, which is cool. Because then they get together, they do potluck style, like cook different things from it. But I think it's like if you want to cook something cool, but the thought about like getting together with a group of people and talking about the book. Right. And like really going inspiration in the stories. Right. Like in depth to it a little bit more. Talking about the chef, like why this person's important, why this restaurant was important, like talking about the time and the place of it of like, oh, look at this dish. Like it looks crazy now, but can you imagine seeing this dish in 1993? Like what people's reaction would have been like stuff like that. I don't know. It's been an idea I've had a long time, but that's like professionally for me. And it's like, it's a little one. It's not some big grandiose, you know, I've basically opened a restaurant every year for the past four years. Yeah, you've done four restaurants in a very condensed timeline. You've built a great restaurant group and a great team. I don't think that professionally, if you wanted to open another restaurant this year, I would tell you to chill out. I don't think I've got a like, I think I'm chilling. I hope so, unless it's a licensed deal and you don't have to operate it. Cool. But I think four and four years is pretty good. But I love the book. Do you think I'm going to have something in charge, Adrian? How long how long how long how long have you known me? But at some point you're going to get there where you can't be everywhere, Joseph. It's it's something you're going to have to come to terms with at some point in your vastly growing career. Just I've been really good at not coming not coming to terms with things my whole life. So, you know, New Year, not new me. Same Joe, new year. Yeah. So what is a travel goal? Because I know you go to a ton of places domestically and abroad. So what's a place that you actually haven't been to that you want to? So I would say the number one like domestic one that has been on my bucket list my whole life is Alaska. Oh, I have always been obsessed with Alaska. I love all those like Discovery Channel Alaska shows. Yes. Like I just am wildly fascinated with it. I have a good buddy up in Juneau, Beau Schuler, who's got a book of the Lopo up there. And he's always like, come up, come up, come up. And he texts me the other day. He's like, we're going to get a really good snow season. He's like, you should come up and like get some turns in like in February or March. And I'm like, I'm like, I should like it'd be it'd be awesome to go cook up there too. Like I have no idea what that would be. Like it's just to me. It's like bear. And it's like, you know, and it's like, you know, with our season with Laura talking to her about Alaska and how, you know, different it was. It just to me, it's just seems like one of those like places that's still like wild. Like it's still a frontier. Like it's still, you know what I mean? People are like, so I mean, Alaska for me is is is number one. Is that really cool? I tried to get my family to do an Alaskan cruise one year so I could see the glaciers and the coastline. I had no takers, no takers. They were like, little girl, we're going to Aruba. Like get out of my way. Yeah, no, I can't. That's a hard sell. That's a hard sell of like, hey, you guys want to go like selling people from Chicago on a cold vacation is tough. No takers. I got shut down so hard on that. But that is that is a really cool place that you're right. It still seems really untouched for the amount of land. And I would love to see your pictures from there. You're not coming. No, no, no, no, come on. Come on. It'll be fun. It'll be fun. Joe, we started something last year, right at the end of 2025 that our chef's cut nation really liked. And it was changing up the format of our fork it or forget it. Do you remember we did a little show and tell? We did. Yes. I remember you made the goldfish cracker. Oh, Mars. Yeah, the risk of the marshmallow treat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was not my favorite, but I'm glad I did it because yeah, you see things all the time and you don't know if they're actually going to be good, right? Yeah, I do. Yeah. Well, I made something today. Oh, I love I love a show. This is so exciting. OK, so I'm going to give you a few hints to guess what it is now. I saw this video for a long time. I'm not going to lie. It's not something new, but the video is like, I don't know, four point eight million views, right? So this is like wildfire. Yeah. Smells really good, by the way. This thing spread blew up like crazy. It's one of those viral recipes. And I was really curious to see if it was going to be good or not because I had made one of the versions that I saw of it and it was not good. So I went to the original video and I was like, I have to go to the source. Yeah, I have to go to the source and try it. OK, so I'm going to give you some hints. It's baked in an oven. Oh, that arrows it down. I mean, it's not seared in a pan. OK, yeah, it's not baked in the earth. So you're not making Coach and eat a pabelle or barbacoa, right? You know, or you dig a hole in the park across the street from your place. Right. Or get carry from our season of Top Chef to dig an oven in the snow. No, you should have. So OK, it's crunchy and moist at the same time. You're giving like the worst sense, like. Like it's food goes in your mouth. It's edible. OK. The main ingredient is a key component that you would find in baklava or spinach pie. Like phyllo dough. Yes. OK. Exactly. OK. See, I had to give you a couple vague hints before we got to the one that would give it away. OK, did you did you make burk? No, I didn't have that kind of time on my hands. I had to be able to make a burk. I would have been I would have been very impressed. I would have been impressed. That is not something I'm spending too much time on. But what I made is that viral crinkle phyllo cake. Oh, and yes, there is a piece missing because I had some misdorning. That doesn't look pretty good. OK, so what's it's like? I mean, first glance, it's sideways as opposed to stacked as a traditional phyllo. So is that like the big deal with that is like you're doing it sideways? Like, yeah, so you kind of fold the phyllo up like you would like, you know, a paper fan, how it goes back and forth. Yeah, and then you scrunch them up into a pan. Now, the Goldfish Rice Krispie treats, they got me. I did a full recipe for this. I did a half recipe because I wasn't sure and I don't want to fully commit like last time. So what else is in there besides phyllo dough? So you toast the phyllo in the pan first. You melt for this like dry. Yeah, you melted. You toast it in the oven, dry crinkled up so it gets a little brown, but it kind of dries out the bottom layer also. Not super toasty or brown just yet because you take it in and out of the oven like three times, but you melt a stick of butter first and you pour the stick of butter over the phyllo, put it back in the oven for another 10 minutes. OK, it kind of gets the phyllo fatty, crunchy, crispy on the top and bottom by then. Yeah, usually you like in my experience, the other with phyllo is like it's usually like phyllo brushing butter and then you're like almost like you're doing like a lamination. Exactly. So this instead of brushing every single layer of phyllo dough, you're crinkling it up and then pouring the butter over. So, you know, I could see it going either way. If you brush them, then crinkle them that, you know, but it is more labor. But like this is the whole point is you're supposed to pour the butter over because it's easier, right? Exactly. Yeah. And then you make a custard that is about for a full recipe. I want to say it's like a cup of milk, two eggs, cup of sugar and some vanilla. Right on custard. Yeah, you whisk it in a bowl completely raw. You don't cook the eggs or anything first or, you know, temper. You just mix the custard in a bowl, pour it over said phyllo. So you make it a phyllo frittata. Yeah, it's like a phyllo casserole, essentially, a sweet phyllo casserole, if you will. And then you pop it in the oven and bake it for like 30 to 40 more minutes. Then you take it out and you go Baklava style, where you pour a hot syrup over it after it's cooled. What kind of syrup did you pour over it? It's like a simple syrup, but just less water. So usually simple syrup is one part water, one part sugar or equal parts. This is one part sugar to half part water. So it's a little vanilla rose water, perhaps the viral recipe was just the basic syrup. But OK. So because I did a half recipe, I still had a half pack of phyllo left. So I did make a second one. Where I put orange zest and bay leaf into the syrup. Is that two bay leaves for one pan? It's just infused in the syrup. So, you know, I'm not saying that's two bay leaves and two peels of orange zest, right? My grandmother would think you were a Rockefeller. Is it two bay leaves for one recipe? They are fresh bay leaves, so they're not as strong as dry. Yeah, true. So I had to use two because you're not going to get the same. It's a different aroma from dry. I love bay leaves. You know, my mother-in-law has a bay leaf tree outside of her house. Where does she live? New Orleans. Oh, OK. That makes sense. I still leave every time I'm over there. It's actually a neighbor's tree, so don't tell her neighbor. Give me some. But I tried it this morning, so it smells really good because. OK, maybe I added a little more vanilla than the recipe called for. I didn't measure it. I just poured it. No one measures vanilla. Yeah, right? Measures. Measure on vibes. Right. Dude, vanilla is a vibe. It is not a measurable ingredient. Right. You just like put it into your like, yeah, that's right. Yeah, looks good. That's how you measure vanilla. You go, yeah, you go, yeah, that's right. Yeah, pretty much. So I had a little piece this morning, but look at this side, like look at the cross section. See, you know what I don't like about it? What? What are you going to hate on right now? That like cooked egg in there. Looks so casserole. It looks so like cafeteria egg bake in the morning. Oh, you are just so anti. Oh, shut up. This is gorgeous. Look at the waves in that. That does not. The waves of the phyllo, the waves of the phyllo look great. But then it's like that, like that, like really cooked egg in the middle. It's like, I don't know. No, no, you're wrong. You're totally wrong because it just kind of soaked in. I don't know. It looks like you got some scrambled eggs folded in there. Absolutely not. I don't even see that look. You're maybe my camera is not good, but it is. Fucking delicious. Is it? Uh huh. This is the I've never most recipes. I usually stay away from like viral recipes because most of them are actually quite awful. Yeah, most of them kind of suck. They should have so good. You're cooked egg casserole phyllo. Oh, shut up. Just because it didn't get tempered in a pot. I'm not worried about it. It's just like cooking. Nob Joe cooking eggs hard into like a breakfast. It's a breakfast casserole. Like you made a breakfast casserole. And I'm OK with that. OK, I'm just saying I just want to call it what it is. Just say you made a breakfast casserole. This thing is bringing me so much joy right now. It's like you're going to go in a brunch at like your friend's house for a potluck and you're like, oh, I made this phyllo dough breakfast casserole. And they're like, oh my god, Adrian, you make the best stuff. You should be a chef. Oh my god, I'm going to quit my job and go to culinary school. It is definitely giving those vibes. I am not going to lie. A hundred percent. I'm not arguing with you there. Call me what you want. I like it. It is a little bit sweet. So if I make it again, which I might if I host family for the holidays next year, like we did this year, we had like six, seven people from New Orleans. I'm making this. I'm making this, but I would make it for you in loss. Yeah, I would. All right, I'll try it. I'm not saying I'm going to I'm going to fork it, but I'll say, I'll try it. I will give you the benefit of the doubt as my friend. As I was wrong before. Thousand times, but. But for some reason, I still trust you. Thank you. I will still follow you into the fires. All right, I appreciate that. So that's a fork it for you then. You're you're all over this. This casserole. There's some other stuff we got to get into today. Yeah, end of year. One big thing we never got a chance to talk about is something you and I have both dealt with in our careers. The Michelin guide came out for you. Yes. And in Chicago, it was a huge to do because the big news out of Chicago was a linear going from three to two. Right. But the big one that happened this year is Casama went from one to two. Yes. And became a two star. What's huge? That's huge. That was wild. I think that was, you know, less surprising, though, then the linear go into three to two was I mean, unbelievable. The news came out before the stars came out like the early like Grand Acets announced it. And you know what I immediately thought about was remember our interview with LaGaia Machan and how her review of a linear was not that favorable. And then the Michelin re-review came out where they lost a star. And at first, you know, I think people who were kind of talking shit about LaGaia's review, maybe at that point it was like, if I were her, I'm sure she was just sitting there like, what do you have to say now? Yeah, I mean, and it's one of those things, you know, it's kind of like to go back to the LaGaia thing, you know, it's like the idea of like, and it's weird, right? Because like, if you think about it, it's like Casama got two stars, when he got two stars, two stars is incredible. It's rarefied air. However, the vibes in those two places of both of them going to two stars, I can't imagine more polar opposites. Yeah, yeah, two totally different types. It's not even the cuisine. It's not that one is Filipino and the other is like more Eurocentric kind of ingredients. They're just totally different atmospheres. Totally different styles of right, but I'm saying of like a both achieving something and at one place it seemed like, you know, at 99.9% of the restaurants in the world, if you got two Michelin stars, you'd be like, this is the greatest day of our life. Yeah. The only point, you know, 1% is the place where you already had three. And it's like, and it's not unprecedented. You know, I mean, we saw it happen in New York years ago with Daniel and I think John George, right? They went from three to two. I know Danielle did. And I think Ducas back in the day went from three to two. And at the time, Danielle had also lost a New York time star. So it's interesting how those things tracked between there and the linear. So it's not wildly unprecedented in Michelin. Right. You know, so I think it's like, I think we got to get into Michelin a little bit today, because I think it's a lot of gloak and dagger, right? Right. And even, you know, it's both of us who we worked in Michelin kitchens. And even before I got into that, there was always like murmurs of it, because for people who don't know, right, it's that it's not like, you know, the reviewers, you kind of know who they are, right? As much as they try to hide, people figure it out. But Michelin, you genuinely have no idea. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I did. There was always the rumors, right? Like the one I always heard like back in the day, and I don't know what the rumors were in New York, but in Chicago, they always were like, solo diner. Anytime there was a solo diner, it's the guy. Yeah, it's the guy. I still make that joke to this day. Like I still think it's funny. Solo diner VIP. Right. You know what I mean? It's like the when we first opened Bartuto, someone came in the cafe and sat down by themselves in order to make an exam, which I was like, it's the guide. It's the guy. It's Michelin. They're here. They're here to give me my, my star for best. And that was one of the few things that anybody ever knew about Michelin reviewers is that, you know, a large percent of the time they go out by themselves. And that was, that was complete hearsay. I've never heard anyone have a confirmation of like, oh yeah, that's how Michelin does it. I've never heard that in my life, but that was always like the thing was the guide. And then the only other one I've heard, and I don't know if you've heard this is that the rumor was, at least in Chicago, when you go, if you're trying to go to from two to three, for you to get three stars, someone from Michelin in France has to come and give it the blessing to go to three. It can't be done by the locals. Okay. So from what I've heard, no decision is based solely on any one group that it is kind of like people get together from other places. So that's, that's interesting that it has to be the people from France where the Michelin guide is based. Again, I don't know if that's true. Right. That's just what I've heard. Like there's nowhere it's not yet. It's just pure speculation, but because I had a buddy who worked at Grace when they were trying to go from two to three. And he said that that was the rumor they had heard was that someone for France had to come. He said, so anytime someone had a international phone number, the tract of France, or a French sounding name in that year, they were like that table was like PPX crazy. Like if that table was like, Oh, I really like these chairs. They should be like, Oh, we'll send two chairs to your hotel. Right. You know what I mean? Like dude, just like crazy shit. Yeah. To be like, to like push it over the top. But it's like, again, it's like, it's so cloak and dagger and like, you know, you don't talk to them except for, you know, when they call and they call the day and say, Hey, congratulations, chef Adrian. You know, we've decided you received two Michelin stars. Right. So you don't know anything. Before we get into this, because I know we both have strong opinions on this. And so we're, we're going to do this, but most people know this, but a lot of people don't the Michelin guide, the dining guide that we're talking about related to restaurants. Yes. Michelin sounds familiar because it is the tire company. The Michelin guide started in like, I don't know, 1900, because it was a little book that they would give you of places to get gas, places to stay and places to get some food because they're trying to sell tires and they're trying to get you on the road. Exactly. There it was called motoring back then. So they're trying to get people to become motorists. And to do that, it's like this restaurant is excellent. Maybe you should consider driving somewhere to see it. Or if you're in France and you want to drive up to the mountains. Okay. On the way, here's this restaurant, which isn't one star is not worth a special trip, but if you're passing it, stop there. Two stars was take a detour from the road and go to that two star, three stars meant you are building your trip around that restaurant. You're not going to the mountains. You're going to that restaurant. Which I think as a scale, you know, you think of a scale that's 120 years old at this point is a pretty brilliant scale. Yeah. If that's the, you know what I mean? If you held truly true to it. Yeah. Like if a one star was like, this is a really good restaurant. And if you're there, you should go. And two stars is like, this is worth the effort of the detour. And three stars is like, just go to go here. You know, it's in the middle of nowhere or even though it's in a city that's far away from you, like get on a plane and go. That I think is the core of that is fantastic. The ideology behind that, I think is is really, really good. Now, the execution. Well, Ding, ding, ding. It's it doesn't seem to be applied evenly. And then there's also that's the one, two and three star because Michelin only goes up to three stars. Right. New York Times goes up to four. Michelin only goes up to three stars. And some people don't realize that also. But the interesting thing is that there's also a Bib Gourmand category. And this is where restaurants that are more casual, you know, I got a Bib Gourmand when we had open Street Bird Marcus Samuelsson's fast casual restaurant. When I was exec chef, we got a Bib Gourmand there. Very exciting, huge deal. It was a rotisserie chicken restaurant. You know, you rub them, brine them overnight. You love up on those chickens and you put them on the spit and then some really well executed sides. Good food for its category and very well priced. So you could get a meal, you know, get a quarter of rotisserie chicken, two sides, a cocktail at the bar. And, you know, you're probably spending 30 something bucks, 40 bucks with a drink. And that used to be the criteria for Bib Gourmand. 40 bucks, right, for two dishes and a glass of wine or dessert. That's crazy. Where can you get anything for 40 bucks now as expensive as labor costs and food costs are? I can't find a restaurant where I can get two dishes and a beverage for 40 bucks. No, it's I mean, so it's like I wonder about how that criteria has changed. And I think that's like one of the things with like Bib Gourmand, I think has gotten so muddled because that was such a big thing. You know what I mean? When we open Girl in the Goat, we got a Bib Gourmand. And I think they might still have one. Yeah, I think they do. But, you know, and then when I was at like Urban Belly and Belly Q, we had Bib Gourmand there because there was more casual and approachable. But then it's like it almost, you know, like now it feels like like that category is kind of like. Like you can't get that. Like what two plates? Like you could get two apps. Right. And a glass of wine and even like at a reasonably priced, you know, restaurant. Like, you know, two to I just open is probably my most casual, right? And it's like, and I think the prices are extremely approachable. And it's like you could get a salad, a pasta, a glass of wine for 40 bucks. Wow. But you can't get like an entree. Right. Yeah. Like I can't sell a piece of fish for $18 unless it's perch. Yeah. It's like a piece of perch. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like here's a perch. You know, no sauce, no garnish. Yeah, that's it. All you get is a fried piece of perch. You know what I mean? Like don't even ask for hot sauce. You're paying extra. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm looking it up. It looks like they had gone up to $49. However, many years ago, but now reading it, it seems like they kind of took the monetary part away. I'm not seeing that in the current criteria for Bibb Gourmand. But this is always the thing with Michelin, right? The cloak and dagger of it all. I think their biggest, you know, one of their biggest fails in the United States is that like it's so hard here, right? Because we're so big geographically. You know, I mean, this is something that started in France and then Italy and these European countries that are so much smaller. So they would drive all over them, go to these small towns, go to, you know, Lyon, go to, you know, like in Italy, I, I, I stashed at a three Michelin star restaurant that was in a town of 33 people. Oh my gosh. Like there's not a hotel in the town. Like you can't even stay there. Wow. And it, but it's a three Michelin star restaurant that's been there for 100 years and it's in the middle of nowhere. So it's like, you're not going to have that here. Like there's a three Michelin star restaurants in like Napa in California. But it's like, it's not like you're going to be in like Southwest Illinois. Right. It can't be, you know, 10 minutes outside of Effingham and be like, somebody's going to come down here and be like, this is a three Michelin star restaurant that's 20 minutes away from the Kentucky border. And Michelin doesn't just go all over the country. They're not just seeking out like a far, far, far place like in Mississippi or they are not just travelers, you know, along this road and deciding like, oh, this is what like the, we're the Lewis and Clark of culinary. Right. The tourism board of any city or state has to invite and essentially pay from what I've heard for Michelin to enter that market. Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's all a marketing deal now. Right. So it's like Florida coming in and being like, yeah, we'll give you a bag of cash to bring Michelin to this area. It doesn't guarantee that you're going to get any Michelin stars, but it brings them to your market to review restaurants. See that look. Okay. So you're telling me about sure it doesn't guarantee, but imagine you're Florida and you're like, here's a, you know, whatever, 30 million dollars Michelin come to Florida and they're like, yeah, we came to Florida. It was cool. We had a great time. Weather's awesome. You know, Miami's wild. But like nothing's a Michelin star yet. Thanks for the money. Thanks for the trip. Like maybe they're not dropping, I'm not saying they're dropping any threes off the back because I feel like you saw that happen in a lot of cities. Like I think like DC when DC opened didn't have any threes. Yeah, exactly. And I don't know for the newer cities that have opened, like I haven't really looked at the Texas ones because I know I think Dallas is on there now. And maybe Austin, but I'm not sure Austin. Is it Austin and Houston? I don't know if Houston's on it, but there's Texas cities on there. So I don't know how many threes are sitting out in the Texas universe. Right. You know, so I think like that's the thing you see is like, I don't feel like it doesn't guarantee stars. I said, I think it does guarantee stars. And I'm not saying those restaurants are not deserving. I think it just doesn't guarantee. I just think they won't give you necessarily a three unless they really feel like there's a three there. And I think the threes are the threes are the threes. I think they take that very, very seriously. And I would say that to the twos as well. But I just think like the biggest range of them is the ones city to city, especially in the US. And I think country to country, it's very, very different as well. But like in the US, I think like the types of restaurant they look at in different cities is completely different. And it's so inconsistent. Yeah. Cause like I've been to a one Michelin star restaurant in San Francisco that was like super casual and it was super good. And I thought it was like, you know, if you're saying truly, truly the lore of it was right, it's all about the food. That's what they always used to say. It's about the food. It's not about the service. It's not about the restaurant. It's about the food. It's just the food being that good. And if that's true, then this place was a one Michelin star restaurant. It was, I didn't have a bad bite. It was awesome. It was delicious. I loved it. But it was also like a casual borderline counter service place in like an almost mall. Yeah. And that's not bib gourmand, but one star. And it was awesome. And it was like, that's fine. If that's a one star, that's okay. But it's also like in Chicago, there's no way that would happen. Right. There are no casual one stars in Chicago. Pretty much everybody who's a one star in Chicago is a fine dining restaurant. You mean they offer a tasty menu at least. Exactly. I don't know. I have, I have a lot of issues and I have a lot of questions with the way Michelin does their thing. And it is so vague. So it's not like I know anybody involved in the process. It's not like I know exactly how they do things. But my issue with Michelin is it seems so Eurocentric. Like I'm like, are they are they racist or are they cuisineist? You know, it's because there are black chefs that have Michelin stars. There's four in the U.S. Maybe 10 total in the history of the Michelin guide around the rest of the world. So four, four in the U.S. Two from Chicago, Mariah Russell and Christian Hunter. Charlie Mitchell in New York and both of them. But also, by the way, in Orlando, both of them are out. Yeah. And Charlie left the restaurant Clover Hill where he got the Michelin star. He's now the chef at Saga, which already had, you know, was Michelin rated. So yeah, he's maintaining those stars. But Gerald Sombright in Orlando also left the restaurant that he was at shortly after getting a star. So so it's like, listen, you can call it cuisineist fine. However, what the fuck? Like four, four, four, four, four. Because the thing that doesn't make and like, listen, I get that it's like, you know, there are as many, you know, black chefs running restaurants, you know what I mean? And find out, you know what I mean? The numbers are not, you know, numbering there. That's fine. But there's not not any. Right. Exactly. And that's where the disconnect is at like the top, the 50 list. Yeah, exactly. This is what gets me is I'm not saying give anybody who is not producing excellent food recognition just for the sake of it. However, Michelin, we can't say that it's not an economic driver for restaurant. They help put butts in seats. So by not recognizing certain cuisines, maybe the type of chef, but mainly the cuisine that they're doing, you're saying we're not helping you stay open as a restaurant. We're actively handicapping the coverage that you get. And we're actively saying that we don't believe this type of cuisine is worthy of Michelin rating. What I've found at least, and I don't know you tell me you feel different. Michelin in the States is a much less bigger deal. You know what I mean? Like if I go, you know, when I was running a Michelin star restaurant, I'm saying just for the average person. OK. You know what I mean? Like I think they're much less familiar in the States with the guy. What it is. Right. Whereas like when I went and stashed in Italy and I told people like, oh, I ran a Michelin star restaurant. They're like, oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Wow. You guys must be really good. You know what I mean? Like it was a really, really big deal. So I think for the international community and then you have a city like New York that is massively tourist based, international based, right all over the world. So the guide is the epitome for international travel. It's a big thing. So if you're saying Tatiana and Khabawa. Thank you. Our one Michelin star. Thank you. Tatiana was the number one restaurant in New York by the New York Times two years in a row. Nothing from Michelin. Dakar in New Orleans. Dakar, Nola doing like fine dining technique with Senegalese cuisine. Number six on World's 50. Nothing for Michelin. Khabawa, racking up accolades left and right. Nothing for Michelin. So it's Caribbean, it's West African. And I'd not seen the recognition for these types of cuisines. It's still and the black chefs that did have Michelin stars were not cooking this type of cuisine. They were doing Japanese and Eurocentric more style. That's true. So you could you could you could you can make a case for cuisines. But yeah, this is what it invoked, which was what made me think of was like Tatiana being number one. Remember when NOMA was 50 best, they were number one in the world. Right. And they only had two Michelin stars. They didn't have three. Right. Everybody lost their shit because they didn't have three. This restaurant doesn't even have one. Right. These restaurants don't even have one. And it's like how like, OK, I understand if you're like, this is a two, not a three. That gap is a measurable gap. You know what I mean? Right. This checks its some boxes for somebody that it doesn't check for you. I understand that it's completely fucking objective. Right. But we have a three star gap. And yeah, that's wild. It makes sense. Make it make sense because it makes no sense to me. We need to find somebody for Michelin to come on the show and clear this up because we have to like kidnap them. We need like, you know what I mean? We need like some, you know, like Romanian gangsters in a white van to like go to France and like find us somebody taken style and be like, find us an inspector. You know, like put a bit of black hood and ask him questions on the. Oh, my God. But that's hard to say. There's no one. There's no one to ask. Right. Exactly. You know what I mean? It's you just throw in, you know, it's like you might as well just go yell into the sky and be like, why is it this way? Like there's nothing. There's nothing. Yeah. You're never going to get anything. That's like, I think, like the, you know, it's like the allure of Michelin, per se, but also like the infuriating thing is like, you don't really need to have accountability if nobody knows who the fuck you are. Right. Exactly. It's a borderline secret society. Joe, let's take it to the walk in. And I think you're up this week for a walk in confession. It's a new year. Let's get some old stories. Shake it off. Shake off the burden from the previous years. You know, I don't know if this is much of a confession, but so the first year I'd never worked in Michelin star restaurants until I went and worked at Spiaggia and I started there as a sous chef. And then after a year, I took over as chef. And at the time we were one Michelin star and talking about cuisine. That's the weird thing. Spiaggia is the only Michelin star Italian restaurant that's ever existed in the city of Chicago. Wow. There was not one before there's not been one since. Wow. Right. So it was a big deal. So I take over the first year and leading up to it. They usually come out in October here. So you're just like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. Like, you know, and I'm following big footsteps. Scroomberg was there before me. Missy was there before me. I'm like, yeah, I think this has been a crazy year. Like, what if something happens in the way, you know, as you know, but people might not know the way you find out if you retain your star is that there's the day and they just start calling people and they call and say congratulations. You've retained your Michelin star. The way you find out you did not retain your Michelin star is you just don't get a fucking phone call. They just ghost you. So it's 2016 and they have to call Tony. So I remember like that morning I get up and at that time, like what they would do, they would call and then right after they called the chef, they would tweet up, they'd be like, congratulations, Adrian, you know, uh, LaBernadette, three stars. And so, you know, everybody would be following the Michelin Twitter guide. So I like, I get up that morning, I'm up early and I remember I was home that day for some reason. So I'm just like walking around the apartment. It's like 9am. It's 10am. I'm like texting Tony. I'm like, Hey, good morning, chef. Have you heard anything yet? Anything. And he's like, no, I haven't heard anything yet. And I'm like, okay. So I'm like, that's all right. It's early. It's early. They probably call the threes first. They're just probably in descending order of the threes, then to choose then the ones, there's a good amount of ones. That's a lot of phone calls to make. Then, you know, they probably talk to them a little bit. They're not rushing them. They're not just like, Hey, you got one click. You know what I mean? Siva. She really thought I was cute. She's going to call. She's going to call. She liked me. So now it's like noon. I'm like, literally, I remember I was in my old apartment. I'm just, I am pacing. I am just pacing through the place back and forth, back and forth. And I'm like, like, just like shaking my head and walking through the apartment. I'm like, Oh my God. And like I'm texting Tony. I'm like, I finally call him. I'm like, chef, what's going on? Have you heard anything? He's a hammer or anything. He's like, it's fine, Joe. Don't worry about it. It's like, this is all I'm worried about. Like, I'm like, I just like, you know, I'm going on the porch. I'm like, like chain-smoking cigarettes. I'm like losing my mind. Finally, it's like, it's one o'clock. It's one in the afternoon. We're ready in the afternoon. I'm checking Twitter. There's nothing, nothing's on Twitter. They haven't announced anything. I haven't, so I'm like, all right, I haven't seen anybody come out. So I haven't heard anything from anybody. Nobody said like, I haven't seen a chef's post anything. So I'm like, what is going on? This is so weird. So finally I just get in the car. I'm like, I just need to leave. So I just started driving. I was just driving. I just like took a left on California and started driving north. And I was like, I don't, I don't know what to do. And it was like finally like fucking 2 30 in the afternoon. Michelin tweets out. There's 2016 in October. So you weren't living in Chicago at the time, Adrian, but we, but you might not remember what was going on is the stupid fucking Cubs were making a world series run night before the Cubs game went into extra innings went late, went to like 1 30 in the morning. So the Michelin guy of Chicago tweets out late Cubs game last night. So we're just getting around to start making phone calls. No, no. Are you kidding me? The Michelin guide was late because of the Cubs game the night before. So I am like, you have got to be fucking. You've had me like ready to bomb it in tension. And yeah, oh my God. Oh my God. Because you had a bender at the Cubs game. Right. I'm driving around in circles thinking like if they don't call, I'm just going to keep driving forever to the rear ender. If you lose it. And then so finally, like three o'clock, like Tony calls me. I remember him in the car. I like pull the car over the side of the road. I'm like, chef. He's like, congratulations, chef. He's like, you have retained your one star. And I was like, I was like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. I was like, oh, I was like, holy shit. I remember I call, I call Brian, who was my, uh, my number two at the time. And I was like, dude, we, we did it. We're good. Oh, that's all the cooks call everybody. I was like, we're going to Stella's tonight. I was like, we're burning it down. But yeah, it was like, it was the worst feeling. It was the worst feeling. It was just like, I can't even imagine how stressful that had to be. Oh man. I never want to feel that way. In the years after, like I felt better about it and I felt more confident in what we were doing, but it was the first year and I didn't know. And, you know, they called us so late and I just, you know, I mean, like, this was my first time ever as a chef to cuisine. Right. I was a lot of pressure. I was terrified. But yeah, so end of the day. Wow. The star and that was, that was my first baptism by fire in a Michelin age. That's a huge deal, Joe. And you did it way to go. Don't need to do that anytime again. No, that's a wrap for this week of the chef's cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube, where you can find full length video of every episode of the show. And be sure to follow us at chef's cut pod on IG. On behalf of Joe Flam, I'm Adrienne Cheetham. And this has been the chef's cut life beyond the past.