2856: BIGGEST HEALTH LIES ! Stop Following This Advice , It's Been Wrong for 40 Years | Mind Pump 2856

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Include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. If you had followed the official guidelines for health over the last, let's say, 30 to 40 years, you'd probably be sick, fat, and unhealthy. It's true. It's because they were peddling lies. We're going to talk about the five biggest lies that we believed over the last few decades and what has been a result of those stupid lies. Let's get to it. Has anyone tried to sue the government or that stuff? You can't. Well, I mean, is that, is that, you can't sue the government for that. That's ironic, but you have people that would sue me, sue McDonald's or stuff like that. I know. I know. You know, which is crazy. Could you imagine? When you think about this, like the government puts out health guidelines and tells the, you know, schools and some of that to teach kids this stuff, right? Food pyramid, stuff like that, right? McDonald's by no means, it says, come here if you want to lose. They never said that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Or not promoting. They just made tasty food. Yeah. And then, yeah, they can get, they've been sued for obesity and stuff. I know. And that is, that's crazy. If you could sue, this is what we knew back then. I mean, that's the go to. Technically, you can sue the government for stuff, but like winning is the other, the other, it's like impossible. Plus they have endless resources. If they want to, they want to just wear you down, but God, if you could really do that, they'd be bankrupt so quick. They already are bankrupt. Thanks, Doug. Yeah. Thank you, Doug. Well, so, so I saw somebody, a meme that said, you, the, the, the government, if the government, if you lie to the government, it's a felony. If the government lies to you, you can't do, you can't do anything about it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like such a bullshit that it's a felony for us, but you can't make it. Yeah. I just posted that. It was like a Bill Murray quote. Yeah. That was okay. That's where I saw that. I was like, I saw, I know I saw that just this morning. Yeah. Yeah. It's convenient. It's really convenient. Well, so being in the health and fitness space, so we've been doing this for a long time. I've been doing this now for almost 30 years, you guys. You guys realize that? I've almost been doing this for 30 years. You guys are getting, you guys are so close. I know. It's crazy. But being in this space for that long, you kind of get used to the fact that a lot of the, what would be accepted wisdom around health and fitness is, is not true. Yeah. And now back in those days, a lot of the reasons why we countered some of the things that we heard wasn't because we had data to support it, although there was some data. It just wasn't a lot. It was just based off of experience. Like we knew people who were healthy and fit and it was like, but they don't go by these guidelines and the people that do go by these guidelines seem to be worse off. And so it was always kind of this, the health and fitness space tends to be counter anyways, I think because we've been trained to be a bit counter. But I'll go with the first lie. And this one now, I think it's widely accepted that it was a lie, but I'm going to tell you guys right now, look, 25 years ago, this was the law. Yeah. Like nobody argued. And it was that dietary cholesterol was bad for you. Yeah. Avoid dietary cholesterol like the plague, because if you eat dietary cholesterol, it's going to negatively affect your blood lipids, like your HDL, LDL and your total cholesterol, the result of which will be heart disease. And so just stay away from food. Black forming and all those things that are hyping In fact, if you went to grocery stores 25 years ago and you looked for health food, nine out of 10 of them would say low cholesterol. This is how we know that's right. Now what's the result of this? The result of it is people avoid. Yeah, dude. That's one of them. The other one is, and we'll get back to that. The other one is people avoided the most nutrient dense part of an egg, which is the yolk. Yeah. You know, egg yolks are very high in cholesterol. They're also super high in some pretty incredible nutrients. It's like nature's multivitamin. And so really it created this generation of like egg whites. And if you, by the way, especially for kids, the studies on children who eat egg yolks and intelligence as they get older is pretty remarkable. And so we just avoided all these nutrient dense foods because we're so afraid of cholesterol. It still hasn't gone away. Dietary cholesterol? This still, this still, there's people that still believe it. Yeah, because you go to the doctor and they're still worried about your cholesterol numbers. And so like if they're not conveying that, you know, well, obviously the like dietary cholesterol isn't a big factor here, but they're not going to convey that. Yeah. I mean, you still see in, especially in the, you know, muscle building, body building world, egg whites is still a thing. Oh, well, that's just because it'll try to low calories. I think that's more than anything trying to do that. Yeah, but it's still, I mean, this reminds me too, when people do that with the extra lean ground turkey versus regular, it's just like the difference in calories is, is so minimal compared to what you're losing out on the nutrient side, which has its own benefits. So it's interesting to make that trade off of, you know, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to trade, you know, 30 calories and not get the dietary cholesterol makes no sense. Especially when you're trying to build muscle. Yeah. A lot of what happened was, you know, like I said, we avoided foods that were really good for us out of fear of, by the way, this is one of the lies that now they've come completely back around and said, oops, we messed up. They now officially say dietary cholesterol doesn't really matter. It just, it literally doesn't matter. Okay. Cause some things matter a little bit. Dietary cholesterol is not going to affect you in any negative way, apart from what it may come with or other factors in your diet. But yeah, we avoided nutrient dense foods. And then what we did is we tried to replace them with synthetic way worse for you foods. You brought up margarine, which is crazy. Yeah. People stopped eating butter and instead started eating, uh, like plastic. I can't believe it's not butter. Yeah. It's plastic. And it's trend and it was made with trans fats, which are always bad for you. Uh, and it is this when, uh, did Velveeta cheese get popular around this time also for that reason? Is it also like a no cholesterol cheese? Your low question, it probably is like no cholesterol. Could you look that up, Doug? Cause I'm, I'm that, I bet it came out around the same time, like Marge maybe was before reminds me of like orange cocking or something. Velveeta is not real cheese. You know, it's not real cheese. Just like margin isn't real butter. No. So I wonder if that was why it's contains cholesterol and is not promoted as no cholesterol. Oh, 10 milligrams, which isn't that much. So is it considered low compared to regular cheese? Yeah. I imagine that's what they also made Velveeta because it melted and it stayed melted. So they engineered it in a lab. So you know the problem with cheese is that it's super melty. Yes. I'm so curious of what the, if it wasn't the cholesterol thing that made, that's why I'm trying to get to the bottom of right now. Cause Velveeta being fake cheese, like what made them make, well, if you've ever melted real cheese on nacho chips, you know what happens? It gets lumpy and if it cools, then it gets hard. You can melt Velveeta in a microwave and you've got liquid cheese for a while. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it's really just about soup. Yeah. It's basically. Interesting. Velveeta filled a market need for affordable shelf stable food during the Great Depression and World War two. Oh wow. So they were trying to make something cheap bolstered by crafts, aggressive marketing as a healthy diet product. So they did, they did use the low cholesterol angle. A little bit. Yeah. Okay. That makes it better for you because the fats in there are better or whatever. It's just pretty wild. The next one is that fat and then slash carbs make you fat. Now the carbs make you fat. I would, is not a government lie that was kind of pushed by I'd say the market as a response to the fat makes you fat message that we got from the government. So we were told to go low fat for a long time. So if you grew up in the eighties, nineties, early 2000, especially nineties, low fat was the way to go avoid fat at all costs. And this resulted in franken foods, low fat, high sugar. They had to find a way to make food palatable. It also resulted in lowered satiety. So people over eight even more because fats produce more satiety than let's say carbohydrates and sugars. And it pushed people towards processed foods because you could process something low fat and still find a way to make it palatable. But in nature, low fat generally tastes gross. And it caused a lot of problems. And fat is essential. And so I remember there's so many times I would train a client, especially a female client. And a lot of her issues were the fact that her fat was too low. I'd bump her fat intake and miraculously everything we get so much skin and hair and everything else energy and hormones. And it was like, yeah, you're eating 30 grams of fat a day. Like let's get you up to 70 or 80 and watch what happens. And they'd feel amazing, which is so ironic too. Because when you think about how we probably evolved, we that was probably the best thing. I mean, the first thing that you will you kill an animal is you go after. Yeah, Everybody celebrated. It's like, Oh, yeah, like that kill you. Meat was valuable. Yes, protein is essential. But the fatty meat kept you alive. That's what kept you alive. Yeah, it's very nutrient dense. You need it. You need protein too. But if you just eat super lean protein all the time, you'll actually die. We've talked about this before, you know, trappers and hunters in the West, many of them starved because they could only catch rabbits. It's called like a rabbit disease rabbit rabbit starvation. Yeah, I think it was called because they couldn't get enough fats. So no, fats are essential. You need them. But we went through a whole generation of people believing they need to avoid fat. Now this led to this crazy rebound effect where it was like, no, fat is good. It's carbs that are evil. So then we had this whole generation of avoid carbs at all costs. Do you guys remember when Atkins became popular? It was like massive. Huge. I remember. Huge product machines. We were in middle school, high school time around that time when that was really, really popular. And I remember because I remember a lot of the kids that I went to school with their moms were doing it, you know, they were on it. Remember coming over and seeing like eating bacon and stuff like that all day. A great way to sell a product is to take a lie that everybody believes and then sell the opposite. And it has some truth. And then you're going to crush. So what Atkins did is the message that was accepted was fat was bad. He came back around and said, no, fat is essential. We need it. It's carbs that are bad. Now he knew because when you see the data, when you go zero carb, it really does crush your appetite many times. But more than that, it's a generation of people who are so afraid to eat fat and now they can eat the fat that they've always avoided. And now it feels like it's freeing. Now the, the fat carbs, they don't make you fat too many calories make you fat. It's obviously more complex than that. But it created a whole generation of people that went in the opposite direction. By the way, low fat, low carb diets both have terrible adherence. So they're both just as equally ineffective. If you have to pick one, I go low carb because fats are essential and you can cause some serious health problems. But super low carb is not so much. I think any, any diet that eliminates or tries to eliminate a macro is just a bad idea. Just, I mean, I think it's a good general rule. It's like, if it's telling you to completely eliminate a macronutrient, obviously, if it's one of the essential ones, it's really ridiculous. But even if it's carbohydrates to, to, to totally do that. And then the thing that you're going to go the rest of your life, that was the biggest problem I had with the, you know, carnivore, uh, ketogenic type of diet. It's just like, just so unrealistic. And, and I understand, with health issues and for the, There's some extreme cases where it seems to help. Yeah, totally. Ketogenic, by the way, original ketogenic diet was a medical diet. There were medical applications for it. Yeah. And so it may, but like we always do, I feel like in the, the health and wellness space is we, we bastardize something like that because it's something that was used in the, I mean, again, we're, I feel like we're, we're on the, the, you know, uh, cusp of that right now with GLP ones. Yeah. This is something that's been around for a really long time. We were medically prescribing it to people that really, really needed it, that were, you know, morbidly obese. And this was like the option to save their life. And now it's turned into everybody who wants to lose five or 10 pounds. To straw mat people. Yeah. I mean, that's where it's getting used to. I mean, are you guys paying attention to all the commercials and ads and the pill forms now and all the celebrities that are endorsing you? Two thirds of a, two thirds of a miracle will be on a job. Yeah. You called out, um, I thought that was aggressive when you first said it, but I don't disagree anymore. And now I'm, I'm, I'm willing to potentially retract what I said as an argument with you early on, which was, it was going to be a net positive. I'm not sure anymore. It's, it's become so popular. I knew it would be, I knew some people would abuse it, but we're, we're quickly getting to the place where, uh, more people that shouldn't use it are using it than the ones that probably need it or should be using it. Right. Melted bodies are a thing now. Yeah. Gosh. Um, yeah. So, uh, what makes you fat is eating more than you burn. That's obviously more complex than that. We've done lots of episodes going into detail, but it's not carbs or fats that are bad. Um, fats are essential and carbohydrates give you energy. Um, and going too low carb for too long oftentimes causes hormone issues in people, especially women. Um, and believe it or not, going no carb for too long can actually cause insulin resistance, uh, which sounds, uh, like it shouldn't be the case, but you can see the data. Um, in fact, people like a Dr. Mercola, who was like super pro no carb now advises everybody, uh, you got to have carbs at least a couple of days a week to avoid that. Uh, next up, low sodium, avoid sodium. So bad for you. It's so funny because it's like, we do this to things that are essential. Sodium is essential. You'll die without sodium. You need sodium. Yeah. There's wars just because everybody needed it. Ancient world thought over salt. They used to actually kill the trash. It's frustrating because it's still very pervasive. Yes. I was going to say it's, I was going to say it's remained very popular up until I want to credit one of our partners, uh, element with this. I mean, up into that point, nobody was even putting like the right amount of sodium in electrolytes, in electrolytes, which is a supplement that's supposed to help replenish that. And there wasn't an appropriate dose. That's how like overly we were, we were compensating on the other, other direction. Yeah. We're doing all sugar instead of salt. It really was when they hit the scene. And I remember we didn't even look at the product for almost a year in our studio because up into that point, every electrolyte that it came out before was a bunch of bullshit. It was something that was, didn't even have the effective dose of sodium to replenish. They have like a hundred milligrams, two milligrams of sodium. So I remember you wouldn't even look at it. And then you open the box one day and you're like, Oh my God, this is like the first electrolyte. And so I feel like we're barely going the other way to your point. Like I don't, I think it still is. Yeah. I find myself constantly having to educate and talk to my friends even to like that, you know, this is, this is healthy. This is something that like, you know, that your body needs to have adequate amounts of electrolytes and salt. And just to, even just to, for hydration, you need it. So there are special populations that, that need to control sodium intake, but such a small, they're pretty ill already. Um, otherwise, uh, uh, and you know, here's why the data showed that there was a correlation between a high sodium diet and worse health outcomes. What you're looking at, if you take 5,000 people and you just, and you just take their dietary information and you look at sodium, I can correlate high sodium with poor health easily, but it's not because it's the sodium. It's processed foods. That's right. When I look at high sodium for the average person, what I'm typically looking at is a diet that is very high in processed foods. And so if you don't control for that, you're throwing in a bunch of people. This is why they thought for a long time that, that coffee caused cancer, but this is true. Not that it was decades ago, but study came out showing that coffee drinkers had more cancer. It's because they didn't control, you know, back in the 60s, 70s and 80s, the heaviest coffee drinkers were smokers. And so they didn't control for smoking. They just looked at coffee. Oh my God, everybody drinks the most coffee gets a bunch of cancer, which is funny because the opposite is true. Coffee has anti-cancer effects. We just had to control for that. Coffee was helping you. That's right. So sodium, when you just look at sodium, if you want to pick out high processed food intake, one easy way to do it without going digging deeper, just look at who's consuming the most sodium. You'll almost always see whoever's consuming the most sodium is consuming a lot of heavily processed food. Okay. Which is, if you understand, if you look at any box food or frozen processed stuff is, it's, they load the shit out of it. It's so it preserves it. So it's a strategy. It's also a ingredient in palatability. Yeah. It makes it more palatable, but even more importantly, it extends the shelf life, which is probably one of the most important reasons why they load it with as much, because you can, you can get away with just adding some of, some sodium in there to make it taste a little bit better, but they put so much in there and it's to preserve how long it lasts. It's more about the palatability because they, they can, Oh, you think so? Yeah. Cause they could preserve salt use to preserve food back in the day before modern ways of preserving. What it is, is that food companies, when they make a processed food, the goal is to make it as palatable as possible. So every ingredient in there is put in there to make it as palatable as possible. One of the ingredients in palatability is sodium. So is fat, salt and fat. Yeah. One of them comes with the other two come with calories. One of them doesn't come with calories. That's right. So salt, sugar and fat are the three main ingredients in palatability. Now food scientists have gone way crazy with this. They've also, they've added chemicals and color. They know how to change the texture. They, they do all kinds of crazy stuff to make food. Like a Doritos chip is hyper, hyper palatable because of all the stuff that they've figured out with science. This is why you overeat processed. That's a master class in ultra processing. Totally. But salt is an ingredient. So you want to, by the way, element is a great example. So going back to sodium, I agree with you. I think element was the first one to courageously put out a product that's a thousand milligrams. Oh my God, a thousand milligrams. A serving like that's crazy. First off, if you need electrolytes, you need a decent amount of salt. Number two, it's sugar free. There's no artificial sweeteners. Why does it taste so good? It's a thousand milligrams of sodium. So element was like brilliant in a lot of the directions that they went. So sodium is an ingredient in palatability. But here's the deal. If you eat a heavily processed food diet, you're going to be unhealthy for the most part. If you don't eat a heavily processed food diet, you eat whole natural foods, especially if you work out, especially if you work in the sun, you need to add salt to your diet. And salting your food is often not enough. I'm so stuck on this palatability. The reason is why you think the whole thing is because why is it then sell? If you were to measure, like you cook whole foods and you personally salted it, and I mean salted it up, you wouldn't even come close to the amount of sodium that's in this packaged food to make it taste good. In fact, if you put the amount of salt, like a salt shaker on your food to equate to the same amount of sodium that's in a processed food, it would taste good. It wouldn't taste good. It wouldn't taste good. It was like, you'd be over salted. You'd be like, Oh, I taste the salt. So why? It's the combination of things that they put in there, which allow the palatability meter to keep scaling up. So like, like you can canned foods with no sodium, they'll last a long time. You could box them. You could freeze them. They'll last a long time. It's all about palatability. And it's, they've got, they've got so wild to me when you think of it like that, because that's the other thing that like, I remember what I teach clients is that because they're like a balance between salt, fat, sugar. And so they know how to like keep raising the bar and it typically looks like a lot. It's crazy when you think of the science that then has to go into that because I remember when I first started teaching clients that you, that they could go freely salt their food when they were eating whole foods. And I put them on there and be like, well, how much can I season it and salt them? Like go to town. Like, what do you mean go to town? Like, should I measure it? I'm like, no, salt it all. I don't care. Like as much as you like for it to taste good. And I remember them having a hard time to wrap their brain around because it's around this time when sodium is so bad for you. And I'm like, yeah, we're eating all these whole foods. You're not in, you're literally, your sodium intake is cut to one fourth just by going from processed whole foods and salting the shit out of it. So it's interesting that you're, you, you can't even, you, it's almost like you can't. I mean, obviously it's possible, but it'd be really difficult to salt your whole foods to come even close. Not even close. I remember I saw, I used to have this thing. I kept it in my, in my trainer area years ago and it showed what one like fast food meal was of sodium. Like one like super sized meal at McDonald's was like somebody who ate whole foods and salted all their food for like a week. Like one, one, one meal out was equivalent to a person who ate three or four square meal whole food meals a day and salted all of them would take the same. It was crazy. Have you guys ever accidentally bought a processed food that was low sodium like peanut butter? Like you didn't even realize, oh, peanut butter has got a lot of sodium. Go eat low sodium peanut butter. It's gross. Well, that's what I think it's, it's, it's so embedded in there that like, you don't taste the salt necessarily, but you start looking at the packaging of all these things and you see the amount and it's, it's astonishing how much they like pack in. Yeah, I've had it. So with sodium from the dietary sodium, 70% of it comes from processed and restaurant foods. 70% yeah, the vast majority. And not all the sodium in processed foods is salt. So it's not salty necessarily because they use MSG or sodium nitrate. Yeah, MSG. And so that doesn't taste salty. Yeah, but it's used to preserve the food. Okay, yes. That makes, that makes a little more sense to me because it's just like, it doesn't make sense that because if you were to salt even anywhere remotely, well, here's what happens. MSG, gluten and sugar make it in everything. So here's what happened to Adam. Everybody got afraid of sodium. So companies figured out how to use other preservatives to increase palatability and to preserve the food that weren't sodium. So low sodium food. Is that, is that where the MSG came from originally? I think it's been used for longer than that. Yeah, for a very long time. We've also learned about the addictive properties of MSG too, right? Yeah, it's interesting. But yeah, so, and by the way, I started piecing this together as a trainer because I'd have, when I pieced together, if I just tell my clients to eat as much as they want but avoid processed foods, it was such a game changer, you guys. It was like, it was the craziest dietary light bulb moment of my entire career. Suddenly I had all these clients who could eat as much as they want, just avoid processed food. Everybody's losing weight. Everybody's getting better shape. Everybody feels full. But then I, with my most consistent clients, I started to have to recommend like more sodium electrolytes because they'd get some of the symptoms of low sodium because processed foods are so high in sodium and when you make food, even if you salt it, it's not nearly, not nearly as much. I think, do you think that's the pushback that, because there's still some pushback on electrolyte products like Elma in the fitness space and I think it's related to comparing to the average American who still eats tons of processed foods. But I think that there's a bit of a bias there. It's like, if you're listening to a fitness, health and fitness podcast, you're probably trying to eat better and exercise. I'll give you two options. Here's the deal. If you have a crappy, heavily processed food diet and you're like, yeah, I'm going to throw more sodium at myself because I need it. You're wrong. That being said, if you're eating a heavily processed food diet and you love things that taste good, you probably also love drinks that taste good and I'm going to make this, I'll make this case all day long. You're way better off drinking element than soda. So go for the sodium. If you want something to taste good versus your Coke, it's going to be way better for you. So that's my argument. So even in that context. Next up, avoid the sun. This one's one of my favorites. This one still pisses people off. I know, dude. Still a pisses me off. I got some new data for you guys on this one. I actually saved it because the sun isn't always kind to me. So you want to not get sunburned. That's it though. Okay. But they turned it into sunscreen yourself all the time. Stay out of the sun. So you say reading all the chemicals they put in frigging sunscreen. Four studies were put together and here's what they found. All cause mortality in people who avoid sun was two times higher. Two times higher. There was, there was people who got a lot of UV exposure, 16% drop in all cause mortality, 36% drop in cardiovascular and stroke events. So you know what's interesting about this? Avoiding the sun, like it's the plague is it bad for your smoking? Yeah. And this data stay inside. Yes. It's like, what have we done to people? And not only that, but the sunscreen people are using this is crazy chemicals that have like hormone effects. It's like, stay out of the sun. Bad idea. But it's bad for you. They're lying. And then on top of where you slowly die, then they're like slather this crazy chemical stuff all over your face and body and put it on your kids too, everybody before they go to school. Wild. I'm so curious if I'm going to be able to see like a feel or see like a true measurable effect. Cause I understand what all the studies say when you, when you talk about sun and then also like the sauna, which is so like this has been like this ever since I got the sauna. I mean, I'm almost daily, dude. Almost daily. The routine is to do that, plunging into the pool, just cold and then sit, it's it laying out in my little chair. And even when it's like an overcast day, I still sit out there because you still get lots of sun. And so even this last week when we've had kind of like low seventies and it's not really like a pool day or layout, I'm so hot from the sauna that it feels good to cool off in the pool and then still lay out there like that. And so I've been doing that every single day. I'm really curious what, if I'm going to notice anything like that is measurable from consistently using the sauna and being out in the sun and like I'm doing this like daily right now. And yeah, I know what all the research says about all cause mortality on both the sauna and the sun. And this is, I've never been this consistent with both of them, at least not since I was a kid with the sun for sure. They're laying out almost daily. And then in addition to that, I've never had a sauna that I've had access daily to. And so to be doing both of those, I'm curious to see if like sleep, energy, skin. Oh, sure, you'll feel it. I know. I like, I definitely feel better. Like I can already tell the difference to that. It does feel good, but I'm so curious if like there's going to be like a measurable, I mean, you have any, do you have any theories if I, I'll see a measurable difference or I'll be able to like point to. Yeah, I think so. I think immediately probably you probably already feel better skin. Yeah. And I think as you continue doing it, you're going to notice more and more health benefits, but it's one of those things that if you don't, if you do it for a while and stop for a while, that's when you'll notice. I feel like that's with everything. I feel like a lot of stuff. Like if suddenly you stop going out in the sun for a while. Yeah, no, I think a lot of stuff that we talk about is like that, Sal. Like the reason why I feel like we can talk so much about it, we've been doing this for so long that there's been many times in probably all of our lives where there was something that we did consistently, health and fitness related and then didn't do it. And it's the didn't do it part that I actually, I think I noticed the most. It's like, sometimes it's really hard. A lot of the stuff that we talk about like, Oh, this has got this much percentage of benefits and it's this will help you with that. And it's like, and a lot of people would argue like, I didn't really notice a difference, you know, but it's like, if you do it long enough consistently, and then you don't do it is when you tend to really notice the difference. Here's the thing, like if you, if you took someone put them out in the sun and then measured, you know, the UV exposure stress factors, you would see some bad stuff happening. But by the way, you would see that with exercise too. You go to a workout, it's a stress on the body. Now, can you work out so hard that you damage yourself and cause problems? Yes, the workout needs to be appropriate. So does the sun exposure. If you never go out in the sun, you got to go out little by little and build up your tolerance. Sunburn is not good for you. That's the issue. But going out in the sun and avoiding it all the time, that'd be like saying, exercise is stress, avoid it, avoid it like the plague. Terrible idea. Yeah, is there any like studies that have really teased that out in terms of like the long term like chronic exposure, like burning level versus just like, you know, frequency and dosing of it? There is. So you can find data on sunburns. Yeah. When people get a bunch of sunburns, that's a problem. But people who go out and work out in the sun around the sun, who've built that callus, they live longer. They generally live longer. They're also outside more. Which has its own implications. Yeah, because Mel, no, that's the biggest scare. You know that we're always getting like inundated with for cream and like whatever, like even makeup has like sunblock now and it's like everywhere. It's wild. All right, next up, the last one. And this one is changing. But for a long time, like if you wanted to get lean and you were going to exercise, like don't lift weights, that's the worst way to get lean. This was believed for a long time. It still is believed by people and I would say the older generations because they grew up in our, you know, I would say it's still someone's thinking you can turn a line. I'd say it's still really popular in general pop, dude. We had a video not that long ago that went viral that was talking about this. In fact, I think it was a video where we were ranked, the staff had us rank things. And for fat loss. And I think we put cardio like the bottom and lifting weights obviously the top. And that went because it went viral and it went beyond our little network, right? I feel like within our network or our bubble, I feel like this is kind of common. It's become common knowledge and more people are aware. But this reached beyond that. And there's a lot of people that were like, these idiots, you know, think they're like, so I don't know. I think that when general pop still, still this, this is the prevailing theory is that cardio is the best way to lose body fat. Weight training is not for that. Now, so cardio burns more calories than other forms of exercise. That's true. And fat loss does occur when there's a calorie deficit, when you burn more than you take in or taking less than you consume. But cardio is not muscle sparing. So if that's the primary way that you exercise to lose weight with the calorie deficit type diet, you'll see a lot of muscle loss. You'll see 40% of your weight come from muscle. Strength training is muscle preserving. It doesn't burn as many calories, but it also tends to move your resting caloric burn up through metabolism boosting. Okay, so it's just, it's a great way to get lean. If you had to pick one form of exercise to get lean in combination with other lifestyle factors, because just exercise by itself isn't a great way to get lean. It's a great way to get healthy, but not lean. But if you had to pick one, a strength training is king. But a lot of people don't realize that don't know that. They think because it doesn't burn as many calories, or what they'll do is I'll hear strength training is good. It could be good for fat loss. Let me just turn it into cardio. So I'm going to do a bunch of circuits and stuff like that. It burns more calories. But we now know it's the best way to burn body fat and definitely the best way to preserve and of course build muscle. So anyway, back to element. Have you guys, do you guys see their new lemonade iced tea? Yeah. Oh yeah. Tastes like an Arnold Palmer. Yeah. It's got a little bit caffeine, 50 milligrams I tried over the weekend. Katrina was pumped with that. So Katrina doesn't take a lot of caffeine. She's really sensitive to it. And so 50 milligrams for somebody who doesn't drink. It's perfect caffeine actually gives you, they put the in it too. So it's balances it out. So you have like a longer lasting. So it's, you know, electrolyte plus if you don't have a lot of caffeine and you're in a hard workout, this is a great way to fuel your workout. Well, you're also low caffeine too, right Doug? Yeah. Yeah. You're not a big caffeine drinker either. Right. Now would you try a 50 milligram or is that too? Absolutely. So that's not too much. Like you could, you don't do well with pre-workout stuff that's like 200 milligrams. I've pretty much avoid it because I don't feel great with caffeine, but theanine does actually help a lot. Oh yeah. The studies on theanine caffeine. And I imagined it because I know what it feels with theanine feels like with 100 or 200 milligrams caffeine. I'm sure with a nice mild dose of 50 milligrams, it's probably really easy for someone like you or Katrina. Totally. All right. I got a, I got a cool study for you guys. That's really, I mean, it's really, it's going viral right now and it's, uh, it's going viral because it compares two groups of people and, um, it shows, um, well, uh, it, how you can predict happiness. I'll just say that. So check this out. Poor Americans. So people who are below like not middle class are considered poor, who go to church several times a week are happier than wealthy Americans who don't go to church. So you can be poor, go to church a few days a week and they report, they report that they're happier. So 36% of people who are poor, who go to church several times a week are happy. 26% of wealthy Americans who don't go to church are happy. Isn't that wild? Now the happiest group of course is wealthy Americans that go to church. So not saying, obviously, what this is not saying is that being poor is not a factor. Right. If you're poor, it's hard to make it. It's a mindset. Yeah. That definitely can affect your quality of life for sure. Like it's not, it's not saying that it doesn't. But what I think is wild is that it's, it's more, it's more, a better predictor is, is being in that community going to church. Yeah. Pretty cool. It's the purpose of it. Pretty cool. Yeah. I wonder, I wonder how that, that compares to just a, any sort of person who is involved in something community driven and relationships and. I'm glad you said that. Okay. Cool. You have something for us. Yeah. I'm glad you said that. So being in an active community is, is really great for happiness. So having great relationships, meaningful relationships, the data is good on that. But when you compare it to church for whatever reason, I know, I think, I know the answer, but again, I'm Christian church is actually better. But that doesn't mean it's not great to just be in community. It's very good to be in community. Well, I think, I think there's a way to even being, if you were not a Christian, you could still unpack that. I mean, you, you're, you're believing in a higher power than yourself. It's offloading control. Right. You offload the, that right. But there is, there's a, everything happens for a reason, good or bad or indifferent. There's a good, explain everything. Yeah. There's, there's a, there's a good ending. Right. You know. So there's, so, yeah, there's hope right there. So I think that it, it pairs community with that, which has got to be where that comes from, right? Just community by itself has positive benefits, but does it, if it could, that could lack purpose. It could lack the personal responsibilities that like, it could lack. There's also this and I have limited experience because I haven't, I haven't been to like a million and one different churches. So I'm sure it's different. I know there's, there's people have had bad experiences. I've been to a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you actually beat me. So I know that, um, cause I've also, uh, recently looked at data on relationships and they're not all the same. I brought this up on a previous episode, but there's like, um, a lot of people have what are called duty free friendships. I think I brought this up a few, few episodes ago. Absolutely no duties. Yeah. So, yeah. So duty fee friendships are like friends, but you don't do life together. So it's like, Hey, how you doing? Oh, I'm good. Yeah. We're cool. How's the surface? Yeah. Like we don't, I don't like, we don't like, like I don't suffer with you. Yeah. We don't like really let each other in on our struggles and stuff. It's like, we like to keep people at arms distance and we're cool and that's better than nothing. Uh, but it's not the same as like real. You actually didn't talk about this on the podcast. You talked about this in a question. You asked a live call, a live caller called in. Oh, a lady came in and you were giving her, it was our lady who called in a second time. Yes. Yes. And I, cause it's the first time I actually heard you use that term. Yes. Uh, so the, I do remember probably the regular audience has not heard that unless you listened to all the live callers. Cause that's the first time I've heard you refer to that as a duty. Yeah. And I know I've, in my experience, again, this is what I've seen. So I go to a great church to have such a great community. Um, uh, and I know that, you know, our faith encourages this and encourages, confessing to each other, doing life, forgiving grace, people are people. So you're always going to get messed up people, but it kind of encourages like this deeper type of relationship. Um, and so I think that, that could definitely be a part of it. Um, but I, I, again, I think, when you look at the data on this duty free kind of friendship thing, that's exploded. You know, it used to be back in the day, like your family, your family, everybody live close to each other. So they know your business, uh, or your neighborhood, everybody knows your business. Sounds like a bad thing. And I can get that right. I can get like, you don't want anybody to know your business, but now you don't have like real close friends. Yeah. What do you think that, what do you think that is the big determining factor for that? Like, first of all, men are bad at this stuff already. Right. So men are already, uh, you know, worse, generally speaking. Um, but then let what, what separates, let's say the, even the three of what, what makes that different in each one of us? Like, is it more child, uh, like what we grew up, our childhood? What do you think, what do you think separates even the three of us with that? Like the way we are with relationships with people like that, why one of us would have more or less of that? What do you think it's caused? I don't know. I can't speak to everybody. I can speak to myself. I think I feel like, I know how I used to feel. It's changed a lot. So it's totally different now. But you know, you asked me five years ago, um, I felt good being the friend that was there for somebody. But if you were there for me, now I felt like, uh, like a burden. So why would I share yeah, my challenges? Yeah. What do you think that comes from? Because you had such a good upbringing, family and community. I think I was the oldest. Yeah. And so I had that kind of thing. And you know how it is, you know, cause you're the oldest. I am, but we had this, we're different here. This is why I'm asking because I find this interesting because, uh, you would think based off of my childhood being the oldest, I would share that in common with you, but I would think that I think you and I are very different than that. Well, I've heard you say when you're with your younger, younger siblings, it's hard for you to be like peers. If that's true. Yeah. So that's, that's part, is that not part of it? No, I mean, it, it hasn't impacted this part with, because the relationship part and I'm trying, I'm trying to unpack as we talk. Do you talk to your younger siblings and call them about your issues and problems? Definitely not. That's what I'm saying. But with other people, I do. Okay. I have a lot, I have a lot of friends groups. And I, I would say they're a lot of them aren't duty free. I think a lot of them, like I do, uh, I, I even, uh, uh, relationships that you guys are aware of that I've made even through this podcast, I attended deep in those and, and do things and share. I'm open, but like, so, um, I'm not like that, but I should be based off of the things that you're saying right now, right? I don't know. That's interesting. You know, it's funny. I just saw a clip on social media day of this, this girl, she was like in her twenties and then she's like her older brother comes over and he's in his 20s, and they have this great relationship. And she's like, why do you think we have such a great friendship? And then the brother's like, because we went through a lot of trauma together with our parents. And so I thought, I'm wondering if, uh, you guys went through the crap together. If you guys like stuck together as a result. I mean, that's my sister and I, yeah. So my sister and I are like that. That's for sure. The truth. Um, but I'm not just, I'm thinking about other people. Yeah, I don't know. Outside of family. Yeah, I don't know. You know, like, and, because, uh, I mean, what you're sharing about yourself, I think is, has been something that you've obviously been open about and you've been working on, right? Being more of that, even with us, right? We have this brotherhood and this bond, but for a long time I feel like you, you feel like that you're being a burden. Totally. Right. So, but it's something that you've been, but I'm not that way. And I should be when you think about like your, the things you're pointing out, the, the trauma I went through as a, as a kid, uh, uh, being the oldest, um, I should kind of have similar, I would think, uh, traits with you, but it's different. And I don't know why it is. I know that in my late teens, the early 20s, I do remember connecting the dots pretty early, the power and value of strong relationships. And I leaned into that. So I know, I know that at some point I made that connection of like, man, when you, when you build, and I, and I teach this to my, my younger siblings, my, my kids that I mentor and cousins that are younger than me and stuff like that. In fact, I just had this conversation when my cousin was my younger cousin who's in his early 20s about just how valuable it is to, to be good to others, um, to find ways to add value to their life, um, and foster those relationships. Because right now you may not see the value of it at 22 years old, but I said, if you practice that for 20 years, you'll look back and you'll have this roll of decks of 30, 40 people that you can call a friend that you could pick a phone up at any time and be like, hey, I need help or I don't have a job. And like I said, and that really adds up in life. And so don't underestimate the value of that of spending those that time. So I don't know where that, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I, if I could speculate, it's probably more, uh, the upfront like radical honesty piece. Uh, so when you present that with people, it's probably like it opens an, uh, an opportunity for more of a deeper relationship with people, because otherwise they're going to be turned off. They don't want to get that deep right away or they don't want to like, um, accept, you know, the feedback. And so they're going to move on. And then whoever kind of stays around, I would imagine you probably have deeper conversations with them. That's an interesting thought. How do you, how do you guys feel about being taken care of? Like if you were really sick or like you were incapacitated for like years, how would you feel about people just doing everything for you? Yeah, I could see that being a challenge for anybody. I mean, I'm kind of in between both. Probably more on Sal in the terms of like the independence of it. And like, I've tried to be better about it. The reason I brought that up is because that's what I've been working on a lot since I've been hanging out with you guys was just like, tell it like it is, you know, like first off, instead of like, try to, uh, you know, be nice and allow, um, you know, people to talk and have their opinions and all this and not really contribute to it. It's like, well, I'm going to say what I'm about to, and then we just kind of meet there. And it's, it has helped with like the types of relationships I have now. But, um, you know, for me, I still, I struggle with, I want like all, it mainly because of where I'm, what I, the chip that I had, you know, that kind of led me into like my own independent work and in my drive of like trying to get successful because it wasn't there. Like the expectation wasn't there. Uh, and so I wanted to prove to everybody it was like a proving thing, which I've outgrown and I don't, you know, need that. Like, but at the same time, like I have this fierce independence, you know, and so it is, it's a struggle. I don't, I don't want somebody to wipe my ass. I don't think anybody does. Yeah. No, I don't think so either. But I think you're onto something, Justin. I hadn't thought about from that perspective, from the radical honesty perspective, because you're probably right. Um, I mean, I guess you guys are better to even your experience when we all first met, uh, or the first time we met, it's probably disarming when someone, you like, you know, this person's going to tell you the truth, but you might not like it or not, but you're just like, well, at least I know it's honest and it's the truth and, and starting a relationship off right out the gates with like radical honesty like that tends to probably disarm or open the other person up. People aren't ready for it. Yeah. Right. Right. Like exactly. Most people probably are guarded. And then if, if I start a relationship or I can be like that earlier than the average person, maybe that opens up that possibility of relationship and connecting faster or more often. I can, that's a, I think that's an interesting thought. I think, I think too, it's like with, uh, like real, uh, deep, close, consistent friendships. There's a lot of sacrifice in the sense that you sacrifice, uh, privacy, you sacrifice time. Yeah. You know, like imagine people just coming over, like they're not calling you telling you to come with us and open, Hey, I'm here. What's going on? Yeah. Yeah. I'm in the middle of something, you know, my kids and I are struggling with it. You don't want them in the house, you know, or your house is dirty, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of sacrifice. There's like anxiety. So especially if you're a kid, uh, like go make those kinds of friends, like you can get rejected and you probably will. You probably will get rejected a bunch of times. And so it's easier to just not. It's easier just to have that surface. The extreme example of that is like social media friends. Like people are so afraid to have like real friendships, but they'll talk through social media, um, or post on social media, which is really just a, um, when you, when you guys went to, when you both were in, uh, like elementary, middle and high school, was it like the same group of people you grew up with? Or did you guys move around a lot? See, I had, I had close cousins, so I never felt the need to have those kinds of friends. So I grew up with cousins. Yeah. One cousin in particular, my cousin, Seth, uh, were so close that I never felt, uh, like, um, attached to or like I needed to have, I mean, I had friends in high school, but it was not like my family. So I think if I didn't have that, I probably would have invested more, uh, in my school friends. But for me, it was like, if I didn't have friends, I couldn't care. Um, because I had my cousins. Yes. He said that we're really different there. Yeah. Like, cause I didn't have the closeness that I didn't have that. They were your family. And we moved a lot. Yeah. So I was like, I just, as I started to meet new friends in a friend group, I had to start over again and do it again. And so I'm sure it exercised that muscle at an early age, subconsciously, you know what I'm saying? Cause at a survival, uh, new area, I have no family. I have no, I'm no friends yet. So I have to make friends. It takes work. Oh yeah. Oh, and it is, it is. You got to actually go out and try to make friends. My friend, Chuck was telling me this, like, and guys are terrible, especially when you get older. He's like, Hey, he goes, if you want to make friends, you got to go like make friends. He's like, you actually have to make it a goal. Put an effort there. Yeah. I'm going to go, he actually tells a story, uh, when he went to college, he's like, there was this one guy and he explains him as like this guy. He's like, I really want to get to know this guy. I think I could learn a lot from him. He seems, so he's like, I pursued him. I literally pursued him as a friend. It sounds funny. It sounds like somebody pursues like you're going to date, but he's like, no, you got to actually like pursue friendships. It takes a lot of work. And then, you know, you get older, you have kids, a wife, a job. If you just wait, nothing is going to happen. You got to actually go out and kind of make it, you know, kind of make it happen. You know, so it's true. Yeah. So that's very strong contributed to happiness. Loneliness is exploding. If you look at the date on loneliness, it's crazy how lonely people are getting. You know, we're more connected. You know, I saw something interesting. I thought I wanted to bring up to you guys here with your, with your thoughts on it. Um, so, uh, Walmart just came out and, uh, said they're going to discontinue self checkout lines. Yeah. Because revamping 650. You think it's theft? Dude, they had so much theft, bro. Is it really high? Yes. They had a lot of theft. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. People were just going crazy with it. And the, you got to think of that's happening at that rate and that high at Walmart. It's probably happening happening in a lot of the self checkout stores. It depends on the store. Yeah. Interesting. Walmart attracts, uh, certain types of customer. And so their theft was high. You know, that's a really interesting target. It doesn't probably have that kind, that kind of problem. Ooh, what would it be? It'd be such an interesting thing to look at. Whole foods, maybe. Target? Not sure. Well, but Walmart's Walmart, dude, like Walmart. Yeah. Walmart is different than target. I mean, there's a reason why it targets nickname is Tarjay. It's the fancy Walmart. Yeah. That's true. That's true. Well, yeah, Walmart is like the place. Like some, I've been some places here in the U S where it's like the only store, you know, that provides anything. Now I went in there the other day and I did notice and it was, it was interesting because it was right around the time I read this, this article. And I, uh, I did notice that the way they're self checkout line, first of all, they have a bunch of them. And it's in this like kind of pit area. And there was like, I want to say like 10, 12 of those. And target, the way they have their structured is there's only, I want to say six, and then there's a person stationed facing the four things. And that's not how Walmart is structured. It's not set up that way. And so Walmart's incentive is all, this is always an incentive, but Walmart has a huge incentive to be the lowest price. This is what makes Walmart, Walmart. They are brilliant at cutting costs. Like with efficiency, with product accuracy, knowing how much they need to order. Like Walmart literally is G whether you like them or not, they're genius at figuring out how to make products as inexpensive as possible. So when it comes to like self checkout, that was another way to make things way less expensive. So they're probably like as little people as possible, but the theft, you can look it up, Doug. Look at Walmart. Yeah. Walmart's theft with self-checking. Well, it makes sense. But what I find fascinating about that, why I wanted to bring that up is because it's like, will other stores fall as suit? And so based off of what your theory is right now, this might just be a Walmart problem and not like a, like a self checkout problem, which is interesting. Like that's really interesting that it's only there. Are you looking it up, Doug? Yeah. So high shrink, yeah. It's up to 16 times higher than cashier lanes. Yep. Increased theft, including skip scanning and fraudulent activity has prompted the retailer to bring back cashier monitor lanes, implement AI powered cameras, and increase receptor receipt audits. Now I'd love to see how that compares to say at Target. Like how is that compared to other? So put Walmart versus Target, shrink, theft, yeah, shrink, cashback glitches. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like what they just, how does that work? They're, bro, there's, there's social media clips where people explain how you can take, get your stuff for free at Walmart. Oh, really? Yeah. Did you know skip checking it or skip checking it? Yeah. You know, I scan one thing, pretend to scan another thing, put it in the bag. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Wow. So Target as well, estimating $1.2 billion profit hit between 2022 and 2023. Okay. See that's gotta be high, that's gotta be super high too, so. It is, but I don't think that they're, okay, compare, go down, compare their, their shrinkage. It's hard to compare because Walmart's bigger. So I don't know if the number is, yeah, well, yeah, you can't compare a dollar amount, but I mean, as a percentage, that's gotta be high. That's nothing to sneeze at. Yeah. Target heavily emphasizes the impact of organized retail crime as a major contributor to safety issues. While both blame theft analysts suggest Target's inventory management issues may have exacerbated the issue. Yeah. So it's different, but I would guess that you're going to get, depending on the location of the store, you'll get more theft. I mean, that's, that's not, that's not like a crazy theory at all. Yeah. Obviously both Walmart or Target, I remember my better areas are probably going to do, I remember my brother telling me in San Francisco, remember when they passed those laws? I was like, oh, you had to steal. I remember what it was like $700. Dude, people were coming in with garbage bags and just, he saw it. It was right in front of his face because they had a law in San Francisco. It was like under $1,000. Was it under $1,000? Under $1,000, they wouldn't, yeah, they wouldn't prosecute you. That was $500. Yeah. It was something. No, it was a thousand. It was a thousand under a thousand. It was some number, right? Like if it was under this number, then you're okay. They were literally clearing the shelf off worth $900 worth of product and then turning around the corner and then selling it on the street. He saw it with his own eyes. He goes, dude, a guy, two guys walked in with garbage bags, filled them up, walked out, went around the corner, laid it out on the street and started selling it. Dude, no, there's literally no policy here that's worked. Yeah. If you think about it, that's wild, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's super crazy. There is no legal dollar amount that allows, okay. This may be new, right? I think they changed. Oh, so yeah. So before it was like 950 or less. 950 or less is misdemeanor, which meant that people, and what literally happened is they would put you, they bring you to the, the cops would take you in and you go right back up. Right. And on top of that, what they were, what the people that worked for the stores would be told is like, it's a misdemeanor. It's not worth stopping. And they charge everything $950 until they bring it up to the cashier. Yeah. That's a, that was a brilliant strategy some stores did. Yeah. Every ticket said like a thousand. And then they'd mark it, they give you a mark off and then it's that way you get arrested. Isn't that funny? Oh, wow. It's so funny. Hell yeah. I gotta say this. So, uh, so I don't know if you guys know this. So Vita Bella, our partners at MPHormones.com is giving people, this is so smart, 10 minute consultations free. So people, that's great because of all the questions around peptides, questions on peptides, hormones, all the peptides, what does it do? Which one will help me, whatever. You can get on the phone with an expert and it's free and they'll help you and they'll answer any of your questions. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to sign up with them. You don't have to do anything. They can handle that volume. I know. Wow. That's got a lot of questions. That's what they're recommending. So, and Doug, is there a specific link for that or do they just go to MPHormones.com? Yeah, let me pull that up. Uh, I believe it's MPHormones.com. And then I thought I saw too that the people that do this also have like a chance to win free, a free membership. Yeah. I was like three, three people, I think. Yeah. Three people will get a free membership. And 10 will get, uh, labs, paid for. So I'm assuming this is just for the month, this month. I believe so. Yeah. That makes sense. This is can't be something they can do on going. That's a, that's a lot of, yeah. Yeah. They're gonna get a lot calls. It's good though, because people have a lot of, do peptides or exploding. Yeah. They're mainstream. Well, there's so many questions. Mainstream. Yeah. And they're going all over the place and everybody's interested and it's like, you know, get your information from experts. Don't get it from social media because I've seen some stuff on social media. Yeah. And also consider, uh, you know, even though I know, so long as they're coming from the right place, they're really safe, but getting your blood work in your labs done and seeing what, what will really benefit you. I think it's so important. I know that they, I know they don't require that. And so I know that that's a reason why, so a lot of people are bypassing that, but it's like, if you're going to go, take the step to do that and inject something, you probably should do that. We did our blood work with, uh, with our partners and they sent the person here to do it. Yeah. So that was easier for us. Just, just telling our audience. It's so, dude, how many times have they missed your veins? Oh, bro. The crazy part is like, obvious veins too. I don't get it. Yeah, dude, you're veiny. I do not like doing that, man. That's why it's funny because you hate it anyway. I know. And it's like, you have to look away. I do. Yeah. Especially if they're like that, like if they're missing and flumbling around with it and then I can feel the veins rolling. That's what they say. So, so somebody who obviously missed a bunch of times explained to me why, suppose it, cause it's, it's hit and miss. Some nurses, they see my veins and they get all excited. Like, oh, this is easy. Yeah. Easy. They love it. Dodge veins, bro. And then others will say things like, oh yeah, there's, there's perks to someone who's very vascular and then there's also drawbacks. And the drawback is those big veins can roll on you really easy, I guess. So, but I mean, I've had such a, we've done this so many times for so long now that I've had so many different experiences. I've had some, some people that I've gone in and done blood work and it's like, but I look away and I, I look, well, no, or I'll come back and it's already done. And I'm like, whoa, that was crazy impressive. And then I have other ones where I'm just like, I'm sweating because I can feel them, feel them searching. I can feel it missing. We haven't even started the first little. Oh, I hate that. That's why after you, it was like my turn, I'll come back to you. It's like, you know, it was brilliant at like getting blood, uh, pediatric. Yes. Courtney was like, because they have to do a little children's thing. They have to do an infant. She just had to do it on their head. Oh, like little kids. So she actually got recruited a lot like in the hospital to go all different floors when they couldn't get like somebody and she would get it first. I feel like that's like, okay, there's all these professions for like, yeah, that there's an art form, total art forms that you should get paid. Okay. I'm going to advocate. I'm advocating for nurses that are good at this. Yes. You should get, exactly. I would totally tip that. I wouldn't even feel that. I hate doing that. I would tip my nurse. There should be a rating like how many stars one you have to bruise. Why were they doing that? I can't be alone in this either. There's, there's got to be, what percentage of people don't like getting their blood taken? I would say like 100%. No, really? You think it's people pass out. That's so okay. Okay. So you get dizzy. Well, sometimes this, this gotta be some psychos that like look forward to it. Yeah, there's gotta be some weird people. So, but I mean, if it's more than 50% of the people don't like getting their blood taken, I imagine they appreciate when they get somebody who is really good. We should be allowed to tip them. You should take X heroin addicts like they're sober and make them nurses. They'd be brewing at this 78% of people experience some sort of anxiety. Yeah. That's great. Eight out of 10 people. Yeah. And we're not tipping these people. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Yeah. You can start. What would, what would happen if a nurse is also in Turkey? They should. If I walked into a place and there was one of those little Venmo QR codes that if I do a good job tip me, I 100% if you, if you did, I would do that on the way out. 100% I would. 100%. So if you're a nurse and you do that, you should start doing it. I wonder if they get in trouble for that. What? If they got in trouble for that. Would you get in trouble for that? You think? I don't know. I'm sucking. I don't think. No, no, no, no. For getting tips. For starting, for starting a tip jar like that. Of course, dude. You imagine you walk into the doctor's office as a tip jar. There should be. There should, if 80% of the people have anxiety doing the thing, I know that that means you have to appreciate when you get somebody who is really good at it. And there is. And let me tell you, there is a huge difference between really good and terrible. I mean, the, the, the feeling that you get, you're somebody in that 80% they get anxiety and you get a person who is top tier versus somebody five-star rating system for the nurse to God at like every single time. Like I'm using that. Yes. And I pay extra for that person. I have a family. I have a family member, big dude. He like, he will not, he will not do it. It's only if it's a death, like an emergency. And even then he'll play. It's always the biggest guys. They are so scared. I'm a baby about it. For sure. I'm a total baby. I do not like doing it. And I have to like psych myself up. I get distracted, like look over here and like, I do all these things, but I've had bad experiences. The one right before her, I missed three times and left a bruise the size of a softball on my, on my arm. Like that. It didn't hurt for like a week, dude. I told you what my big friend, you know, C68, this huge guy, he had to get an MRI and he had to go to the zoo. No, we did it. You never said that. I did it. No. Of course, me, you know, I was concerned because like he had, you know, past, he had like a stroke and it was like a serious like issue and he was very scared about it. I'm trying to like, you know, be consoling empathetic and all this. And then he kind of told me that I'm like, so did you have to wait after like the bad ones? Dude, that's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause like they couldn't like fit them, you know, in the regular one. I mean, that makes sense. Those things are pretty. Well, you remember we did ours. They're pretty narrow. I hit both ends of my shoulders and I was, I'm not huge. You're almost zoo level, dude. You're almost. A couple more peptides. I'm going to use that with it for sure. Hey, bro, you're, you're, you're one peptide away from zoo MRI, bro. It's going to be a new thing. We're going to see, I would not be offended if they're like, listen, I know. I'm like, exactly. That's what I'm telling him. Like, dude, you should be zoo to get this MRI. You don't fit the machine. You would be the guy. You would be the guy. Can you say it on camera? It's like a show. How enormous I am. Yeah. That's hilarious. Probiotics have been shown in studies to improve gut health, reduce inflammation, help you with your bowel movements, but they have also been shown in studies that clear up your skin, reduce anxiety, make you feel better, speed up recovery and even add to strength gains in the gym. Now the question is, which probiotic do I take? Well, I got the answer. Seed. Seed is literally the best probiotic in the world. They're the cutting edge. They have a delivery process that is unmatched. They're the best. If you want to take probiotics, you want to get the benefits, go to seed.com forward slash mine pump, use the code 25 mine pump, and you'll get 25% off your first months of Seed's daily symbiotic. Back to the show. Our next caller is Christian from California. Hey, what's up, man? How you doing Christian? How are you doing? See you again, dude. Yes, it's good to see you guys again. Yeah. How you doing? What's going on? I'm doing all right. I think the last time we chatted, I had our second baby girl on the way. You did. And now I have a baby boy on the way. What? How many kids you got now, dude? This will be number three for me. God bless you, bro. Good for you, man. Look at you all peaceful and stuff. You got tired? For now, I'm being relaxed now because I know it's going to be crazy later. Yeah, dude. So what's going on? How can we help you? Yeah, a couple of questions for you. I've been running the last couple of times I ran anabolic anesthetic. Actually, performance also, I cut the foundational workouts in half and split them over two days because it just kind of worked better for my lifestyle. I was in the gym most days of the week and it kept me more active. I found that the days that I don't go to the gym, I'm just, I get so many less steps and just generally less active. And so my question for that are actually, now I think about it, two questions. One, I hope the answer is no, am I ruining the programming by splitting it into two days? No, no, yeah, not at all. You're okay, great. It's a valid message. And then two, should I still do like the trigger sessions, mobility sessions, focus sessions, if I'm already in the gym like six days a week? Nah, I mean, mobility is more important than the trigger with that. It's important to work on mobility. The thing is, if you're following performance, the program itself is pretty good for mobility. But if you're not following, if it's anabolic, if it's aesthetic, you're definitely going to want to inject some mobility because those are so like bodybuilding or, you know, schedule playing focused. So I would say yes with mobility, but trigger not so much. I mean, you're in the gym so much or so frequently, then it would be like another session. Plus, you're having a kid, like that's a lot dude that you're having another kid and you've got young ones already. So you also might want to consider, you know, adjusting it for something like that. Yeah, for sure. So if I, so if I add mobility sessions, I usually lift in the morning, should I do the mobility sessions in the afternoon at night or during or tapping work, tack them on to the workout before or after the workout? Or at night. I mean, anytime you have time. Yeah. Cool. So it doesn't matter too much. Yeah. Nope. Yep. I mean, you're splitting the workouts. I'd probably tack them on to my workout and just be at the gym for an hour, right? That's what I would probably do unless it's more convenient to split it up. Here's the thing too with mobility is, you know, I don't know what your routine looks like, but I would just focus on the areas you need to focus on. You could also just do that. Sure. Sure. Cool. That's helpful. My second question, I want to give a little context to it because I think it'll help. I get good sleep. Ever since I started listening to you guys, I've really prioritized it. Um, and last year, I listened to you guys all the time. So my wife hears your guys's voices all the time. And whenever you started talking about the eight sleep, I would pause it and I would wait until my wife was in the room or in the car with me. So I'm now a proud owner of an eight sleep. So generally I get good sleep, but on the, on the off nights that I don't, one of my kids wakes up or whatever. I'm sick. Um, I know I need to adjust the volume of my training the next day if I'm lacking sleep. Do you guys have any like general, yeah, cut the weights in half. Just cut the weights in half. Yeah. So two things. If you're sick, you're better off not working out. Yeah. So working out in the acute stage reduces the, um, the effectiveness, I guess for lack of a better term of your immune system. So exercise generally strengthens your immune system, but in the acute stage, like while you're working out, right after you're working out, maybe a day after your immune system is depressed. So if you're sick, working out is, it's a great way to potentially cause a secondary infection or make you feel worse. Now, if you're tired, there's a few variables that you can adjust. The most important one to adjust is the one that Adam is kind of implying, which is intensity. Yeah. So more important than cutting the, the volume is making the workout easy. Yeah. I mean, I did this yesterday. I had really bad sleep the night before. Um, I woke up, I couldn't sleep in for whatever reason. It's one of those nights where you just wake up early and then for whatever reason can't go back to sleep. So I went to the gym and I just worked out really easy. Uh, and that's, that's the most important thing. The second thing would be volume. The third thing would be skipping the gym. So depending on how bad the sleep was, you might want to skip the gym altogether, but if it's just like, you know, instead of getting eight hours, I got six hours and I'm kind of groggy, uh, then you just go to the gym and you just go easy. Gotcha. So it would be, so we would keep the same exercises just really reduced the weight. You know what you do when you squat, when you bench, when you over at press, when you do those movements, reduce it by at least 25 to 50%. Yeah. And just go, I mean, what I do in those days is those are like my machine pump days. Exactly. That's exactly what I do. Those are the days I like to go over to the machines and I'm just like, I know what muscle groups I'm supposed to hit today. I'm going to go over and you know, I'm going to lay, I'm going to leg press today. I'm going to shoulder machine press today. I'm going to like, I'm going to, I'm going to use the machines and I'm exactly what I did. And I'm going to get a little bit of a pump and, and, and all those muscle groups and call it and you're, you're, you are not going to go backwards that way. No, no, no, I'm just, I'm just going easy dude. I'm just feeling it going easy and just moving through. Yeah. So keep the sets and reps the same. Just cut the weight. Yeah. Just cut the weight. Cut the intensity. Yeah. The intensity. Yeah. Because you can also cut the weight and still go hard. Yeah. So yeah. So it's about the intensity. Go easy. Gotcha. Cool. Sorry. Back to my first question. So I was looking at maps strong and then there's maps 15 strong. Is there any, what I lose or gain anything if I, if I got maps strong, the full one and then cut those in half, or should I just get maps 15 strong? That's a more difficult program to do what you're doing with, uh, anabolic and aesthetic because the work sessions are programmed differently. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's more straightforward with anabolic and aesthetic. It gets a little more complicated. It's not like it's impossible. You just baby better off getting 15. 15 is the, less the work, uh, sessions and more of just the foundations. In other words, cutting workouts in half doesn't mess up the programming of maps and a ball. Or maps aesthetic, cutting the workouts in half, uh, has a stronger effect on messing up the programming with strong. Interesting. So this is, this is a programming thing. Yeah. But maps 15 strong is perfect. Yeah. For what you're looking for. Sounds great. That's what I'll look into then. All right, Christian. You got, hey, congratulations. Yeah, yeah, dude. Good for you, man. We're excited. Play off tonight, bro. I know. Are they going to do it? I don't know, dude. I don't know. All right, Christian. Always good. Catch it up with your brother. Take it easy. Take it easy. Yeah. Sports. Sports ball. You know, hey, you know what's, I love that he asked about strong because someone listening may have gotten the impression that they could cut workouts in half for all the programs. Yeah. No, but, uh, it will mess up programming. Yeah. Yeah. Depending on what program. Some of them live well to do that. Yeah. And strong is not one of them. Anabolic does a, is perfect. Yeah. Anabolic's fine. Yeah. Cut them in half. Go for it. But strong, not so good, but then you have maps 15 strong. Yeah. Yeah. Even aesthetic is a little more complicated because we have focused sessions. Yeah. You have to cut them out. Yeah. Yeah. So exactly. So that changes a little bit there where anabolic is very straightforward. Cut the workouts in half. Now you go six days a week. Fine. Yeah. Totally fine. Our next caller is Jessica from Alberta. Jessica, what's happening? Hello. Hello. Nice to meet you guys. Same. How can we help you? Let me read my question. Okay. Okay. About two years ago, I was at my heaviest about over 250 pounds. At that point, I focused more on being consistent with workouts and eating less overall. And in the first year, I lost about 40 pounds. Since then, though, progress has really stalled. Like last year, I only lost another five to 10 pounds. And then this year, my weight stayed about the same despite feeling like I'm doing all of the same things, if not more. The confusing parts, I'm really consistent and pretty strong. I strength train four times a week. I also mix in running and occasional spin in Pilates classes. And I'm averaging about 10 to 12,000 steps per day. My nutrition is pretty structured. On average, I sit around 21 to 2400 calories per day. It probably goes up to 2800 or so on social days, maybe one for twice a week. And my protein is probably around 130 to 150 grams. I do struggle more so in the past, but with periods of overeating and binging, and I do feel like my hunger and food noise have increased over time since I started this two and a bit years ago. My goal is fat loss while maintaining muscle. I still have like a pretty lofty goal of weight loss that I'm looking to achieve. But I feel stuck in this phase where I'm strong, I'm active, I'm consistent, but I'm not really seeing any meaningful change on the scale. So my question is, am I likely under eating and adapted, or is this more of like a consistency adherence issue with nutrition? And I was just hoping for some recommendations to break through the plateau without sacrificing muscle or performance. It's both, but I have a question. When you emailed in, it says 1800 to 2100 calories or 2000 calories. Has this changed? I think that was my first estimate. And then when I was accepted to do this call, I started just tracking a little bit more closely to be not to this. And I feel like that's what I just said is more accurate. Okay. This is easy. This is actually pretty, you're in a great place because the fix is easy. So here's what's going on. So you feel like you're consistent with what you're doing, but your metabolic rate is never consistent. Its goal is to adapt. And it's going to adapt to a deficit by reducing metabolic output. There's a lot of different ways it does this, but to put it simply, your metabolism slowed down to match your intake. And so then what this feels like on, on your end is I'm doing all this work and nothing's happening. And it used to work, but now it's not what is going on. And it feels like you're like in a car and you're hitting the gas, but your wheels are spinning. Okay. So the fix is to get your metabolism to adapt in a way we want it to adapt. And that's going to come in generally speaking, it's going to look like a reverse diet and probably a reduction in some of the cardio activity that you're doing. So maybe a cut down and some of the spin classes and running the strength train is perfectly fine. Walking is perfectly fine. And let's reverse diet you build a little bit of muscle, but speed up the metabolism and set us up for a more effective and more sustainable cut down the line. Okay. Otherwise, the other approach is to keep doing what you're doing and feel real frustrated. And then what's going to happen is your appetite's going to keep climbing, which you're probably already feeling right now, you're probably already feeling like your appetite's kind of starting to increase. And that's your, that's your body fighting kind of what you're doing right now. And now what it'll feel like if you do this right is the reverse diet, you're going to eat more, get stronger, see some performance gains, everything's working great, not seeing any weight loss, but that's okay, maybe a couple pounds weight gain, no big deal, probably water. And then when you're ready, you go back on a cut and then boom, you start seeing fat loss again, and your metabolism is faster. And you're in a place that you're it's easier to maintain. Okay, that makes sense. So how, what would your recommendation be for like how much I reverse diet and for how long? So I can give you a general idea. Yeah. But ideally, you'd want to coach to work, we work with you through this process, because a lot of it's going to be how you're responding and how you feel. Reverse dieting is way harder than it sounds, especially if you've lost weight already. It's a bit scary. And if you start to feel like I'm getting bigger, or I'm holding a little water, it's like, Oh, what's going on here. And so a coach will adjust on the fly but generally speaking, what it typically looks like is 100 to 200 calorie bump. And then we maintain there for a little while, and then we do it again. And then we maintain there for a little while, and then we do it again, until we get to a point that we want to cut from. And for someone like you, it's probably going to be around 2600 calories eventually, that then we can bring back down to 2100 calories and start seeing fat loss again. That's where she's at right now. It's 24 to 27. She just got there. No, no, she's been there. How long have you started? She just started tracking to double. So she thought she was eating 1800 to 2000 calories a day. How long have you been around 2500? I would say I'm 21 to 2400. And I think I've been there consistently for a couple months. Okay. Yeah. No, we would get you a little higher then. I'd say we get you much higher. Yeah, much higher. Yeah. And we consistently get you at like 25, 26, 27. How often, how often are we doing the spin in the runs per week? So in the winter, I mean, I've just kind of switched things up now that it's nice out. I was trying to do about three runs a week. They're not not too, too long. And so I've cut back. And then in the winter I was doing less. I wasn't really running and I was doing, yeah, maybe two or three spins a week. So how long's the run for? It typically from like 30 to 45 minutes. Okay. So I'd immediately switch that to walks or hikes. So it's not running. You can keep doing that if you like it. I'd immediately switch to that. I'd bump calories by 200 calories right away. And then the strength training, are you following one of our programs or you just put, what do you got? How'd you put it together? How'd you put it together? Split. Yeah. I had just finished anabolic. And then I had moved up to, I was trying to do four times a day, just because I liked it being like a little bit shorter. And now that I had just kind of finished that, I'm looking to go back to because I was doing three times a week running, go down to three times a day. You mean a week? Yeah. Oh, sorry. Yes, a week. Yeah. Yeah, I would, because we're not, there's nothing wrong with running, but we're trying to move your bentabals in a direction we wanted to go. And I would cut the running, like Adam said, because the goal right now is metabolic adaptation in the direction we want. Which is building muscle, speeding your metabolism up. And that's not going to help the cause. I totally don't mind you still walking, which is great. So if you like the routine of getting out there, treadmill or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead and walk, do your thing, especially if you like being outside and you appreciate that and it's nice weather. Like I'm totally encouraged that. I like anabolic. I like muscle mommy. Yeah, or muscle mommy. Either one of those routines would be a great routine while we reverse diet. But the real focus is just really paying attention to increase strength. Sounds like you've done a good job already. I think if, if that's true, then we add to 200 plus calories and we reduce the running, you should see strength continue to go back up again too. And that would be a good indicator that we're moving the right direction. Yeah. When you said you were averaging 21 to 24, if you were to add it all up, what would the average be around? Do you mean daily? Yeah. Yeah. So if you took all your tracking, added it up, divided by the days, do you know where you would fall? Yeah, I think it's, I think it's more around like probably yeah, probably around like 23, 24. So yeah, we would go up from there then. Yeah. Yeah. And this is probably going to be a six month or process, maybe longer of reversing and then cutting. If you want, if you want to work with a coach, we can have someone call you and then they'll, they'll coach you through the process. Sure. Yeah. I'd be interested in that. Okay. I guess I have one other question kind of related to the strength training. So I feel like I'm, I'm pretty injury prone. I've had multiple surgeries on one of my knees. And so when it comes to the lower body stuff, like squats and, you know, other, other lower body stuff, I get kind of nervous maxing out my weight. Like I feel like it's, I don't think I'm necessarily lifting my heaviest when I'm doing a squat or a deadlift or something like that, but it's kind of, um, I feel like I'm maxing out my, my range of motion and how comfortable I am with, with pushing. So that's, that's like one, I feel like that's a limitation when I'm strength training that I'm, one of the things that you can do, I mean, obviously having someone there to help you, that would that'd be great. But like it's okay if you, let's say you're in a part of anabolic or muscle wall may that calls for five reps, put a weight on the bar that you've haven't done before that would, is going to challenge that, that might be a little scary that you's like, I don't know if I can do this. And it's okay if you stop at three. Yeah. Okay. It's okay. Like, so if you, if you feel it as you're going through it, like, Oh, I don't know if I'm going to get five or this is, so like, I'm always going to encourage, especially my female clients to, to kind of push that if I'm afraid of the weight, I'm not sure, I feel uncomfortable. It's okay. We'll cut it off at two or three, like get under there. Do what? Like, and there's lots of benefits to putting that kind of weight on there and doing two or three reps that you've never done before. Like there's a lot of value to that. And so give yourself that okay and permission that you don't have to get to five just because the program says get to five. That's the, that's the, that's guidelines for you. But really, I want you to try and challenge the weight. That's a weight you've never done before, put it on there. And then if you get a little nervous, when you get to rep three, just cut it off. That's okay. You can also, Jessica, there's other ways to progressively overload besides adding bar weight on the bar. So if you're doing a weight that you know, you can do 10 reps with and you're like, man, I should add weight, you can just slow the reps, pause the bottom, pause halfway up or at the bottom, just make it harder. There's another way to do that. And you think this is better than like, I don't know, subbing things out for like a leg press or a machine. Oh, definitely. I mean, yes, yes, but that's okay to do that too. Occasionally, depending on how you feel and what the injury is like, you know, if you're like really like, oh, my knee's a little iffy today. And cause here's the thing, there's two things. Number one, you might feel like it's iffy because it is. Or here's the second part. And this is actually more common. And this is not something to sneeze at your fear can actually increase risk of injury. And I've seen this, I've seen people have previous injuries, they go to exercise, their fear actually changes how they connect to the exercise and their technique. And this actually increases risk of injury. And so if you're in that state, you're like, look, I just feel safer switching to this one exercise that feels safer for whatever reason. You sound like my physiotherapist. It's actually true. It's because it's real. So you can, it's totally fine to do that as well. I'll add to this too. And by the way, if you, if you end up doing the coaching, this is all stuff that your coach is going to want to see like a video of you doing a squat, things like that, they're going to get to be, they're going to be able to break. If I saw you squatting, I might notice other things too, that I could give you mobility work to do like 90 90s and ankle. You cutting, are you running is not helping this either? Like that, like almost everybody that runs that have it's, you know, quote unquote knee issues. I mean, it ends up tightening up the hips and IT and that pulls on the patella and that bothers. Running is more, more technical than squatting is. And running is typically done to fatigue in a way that squatting isn't. And when you see people injure their knees who run and strength train, they'll hurt their knee when they're strength training, but it came from the running. Yeah. Yeah. So I know you're right. I feel like because I have had all these knee traumas, the running was like a goal to try to do it pain free. And you know, like give myself that check mark. Yeah. But I know that you're, I mean, I would love to see you continue on the date, the days that you were running. It's still, let's go out and go get some good walk or hike outside right before you do it. I love for you to spend 10 minutes doing 90, 90s and combat stretch. So really do some hip and ankle mobility and then go for your walk. I would love to see that. By the way, that's not a bad goal. Like I love that goal. I love that you want to run pain free because that for you is a personal like victory. Yeah. But if that's really important to you, what you don't do is go out and run. What you do is you hire a running coach and have them work on your technique. That is the most effective best way to you built for you to ever be able to run without pain. It is very technical. We, we think of running like you just go out and run, but when you have a coach and they'll break your technique down and have you go slow and work like three, four months of working with a running coach, like does miracles on people. Yeah. That combined with you doing your hip and ankle work, because a lot of times you feel stress in the knee because there's instability and weakness in the ankles and the hips. Yeah. And if you have instability in your ankles and hips and you don't address it and you just go run, you absolutely can't even have good technique. You're going to feel exactly. You're going to feel knee pain. And so that's why I say like a great place to start would be keep doing the hikes, but before you go out, get down, do your 90, 90s, do your combat stretch, be consistent with that. I bet you will feel a difference all right away from that. It'll improve your squatting and how you feel there. That's right. And then use what Sal said. If you feel nervous about the weight, just keep the lighter weight on there, but then pause the bottom and make those five reps really difficult by slowing the tempo down. And I'm going to have a coach call you and we're going to talk to you about six to nine months of a reverse diet cut. That's what I estimate you're probably going to have to do. Okay. And then should I give now that I'm done anabolic, do you think I should give the muscle mommy a try? Yes. So if you work with our coach, three or four days a week, it's yes. If you work with our coach, they'll set you up with any program that they, that they do also modify it for you to individualize it, which is even better. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So we'll have someone call you, but I'll let them know six to nine months is probably what you're looking at for, for what we just talked about. Okay. That sounds good. You got it. All right, Jessica. Awesome. Thanks guys. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. Yeah. She's actually in a good place because the solution is simple and she sounds open, which is good. Like she's not afraid necessarily, but she reversed diets. Right. This is going to feel easy. Yeah. She's just, she's, because you're already lost 40 pounds. Yeah. But she's at that place where you plateau and then you're like, I'm doing all kinds of stuff and what is going on? So your body adapted. Yeah. You got to build. That's it. Our next caller is Regina from Maryland. Hi, Regina. How you doing? Hi guys. How are you? Good. How can we help you? Okay. So I am 39. I've been on tour as epitide for about 13 months now. I've lost 65 pounds ish. So losing about a pound a week, which I'm happy with. I have been doing Ornish Theory Fitness for that year. So about three or four classes a week, one of which is always a strength class. I know Ornish Theory comes with its issues as I've learned from your show, but it is the first thing in a long time that's gotten me to the gym consistently. So I've tried to incorporate your advice, lifting heavy, lifting slow, not worrying too much about how fast I can get through the routine. I also walk on an incline instead of running. And I just frankly don't worry too much about that part because I am not trying to elevate my cortisol more than life already does. It has been a winning combination for me, though an expensive one. I'm paying for my medication out of pocket. So it's been a pricey year. And I'm looking forward and I wanted to write in because I am trying to plan for my off ramp. So both of the GLP and potentially OTF, I don't want to be on the shot forever. I'm thinking about transitioning to one of your programs, but stopping Ornish Theory and stopping the GLP feels very risky and a little bit scary because they both worked so well for me. The combination of the two has been a game changer in that it's allowed me to prioritize protein fiber, eat and calorie deficit while still building muscle. I'm really proud of myself because I've lost weight, but I've held on to my muscle for the most part. With my age and the GLP, I just want to continue getting stronger. It makes me feel confident and I know it will continue powering my metabolism as I enter perimenopause and all of that fun adventure. I know that so much of this is psychological. So I wanted to share what about this I think is working for me. What I love about Ornish Theory is that I can walk into the gym without pre-planning. I have a pretty intense job that requires a lot of decision making, so it's helpful to not have to plan my workouts. There's also that added motivation of the no-show fee that gets me definitely to my pre-booked classes. So any advice on the transition would be greatly appreciated. I shared my body composition results. I'm mostly just nervous. It's been such an interesting year and I just want to keep going in the right direction. So I'm having Doug pull up the body composition because I'm super curious to see. You said you kept most of your muscle. Yeah, I mean pretty much. I can pull up my numbers. Doug, can you break it down to me? It's hard for me to tell. So it says March 27th this year, right? So your 28.8% body fat skeletal muscle 78.3 pounds. So I went from 84 to 78 while losing a lot of weight. And then back last year, June 26, 35% body fat, 84 pounds. That's a great job. Regina, great job. Yeah. By the way, it's obvious that you took the advice in Orange Theory because that wouldn't have happened if you would have taken the class the way they pushed the red zone and everybody's moving through. So I can tell just by your results. And so that being said, you don't have to quit OTF. If you are applying what you've heard from us talking about it, like if you really are that client that ignores the fast-paced circuit and takes your rest periods, pushes the weight, when you get to the treadmill section, you do incline walking instead of the sprinting all out. It's not bad at all. But most people fall into the competitive trap and they get into a circuit training where it's obvious to me that you've done a good job of that. You've held most of your muscle, which is really hard to do in a GLP-1 and running a class like that. So where are your calories at? So I track really well for about 75% of the day. And then by the end, I kind of am winging it. But I'm usually around 2000. That's not bad at all. I'm assuming you're using Terzeppite from a compound pharmacy? No, I'm getting it right from Eli Lilly. Okay. So here's what would happen. You have a cheaper way for you to get that, by the way. Yes. But here's what would happen if you stopped the GLP and stopped OTF. You would gain everything right back. But I think you know that, right? Yeah. And so your question, I love that you're coming to us with this question because you have the right idea. What's the off-ramp look like? Because when you look at the data, the data shows that when people stop a GLP, they gain the weight back. Now, there's a reason why this happens. Part of it is you lose this strong GLP signal that reduces our appetite, kind of changes our, you know, how food affects us in a hedonistic way. So we don't crave it as much, blah, blah, blah. But the other part of it is that through that process, people don't work on the behaviors that stick or the good behaviors that can stick after the GLP. And they also don't focus on exercise in a way that's the most effective. Because what we want to do post-GLP with you is we want to focus on building your metabolism. Now, Orange Theory is okay. Traditional strength training is in another universe for that. Now, if you told me that you went to Orange Theory because you love the community, if like your friends are there, you want to connect with them, then I would push you to stay there. But if you're like, look, I just go because it's set up for me, which is what you said, then I would say, let's set you up so that you have a routine, but one that's more effective for what we're looking for. Then with the GLP, here's what it looks like. And this is the protocol that we're getting from some of our friends who are experts at this, is they scale people's doses down while working with a coach on behavior modification. Yeah. Okay. So to give you an example, someone may be an overeater because they are, when they're anxious or when they're sad, and it's a way to self-medicate, for example, those are two common ones, right? Then what we're going to do is we're going to try to replace what you might have done with food with other behaviors. Now there's a silver lining here, and that is that the neural networks that were so strong before the GLP one with how you use food have actually weakened because you haven't used that like you did before. So we're actually going to really get great place to develop new neural networks, new behaviors. So your success rate is actually really good if you coach your way through this and you scale down on the medication and don't just drop it off. Now you can't do that with the Eli Lilly because it's pre-loaded, but you can with a compound pharmacy. So compound pharmacy, same medication, it's like ibuprofen and Advil. It's the same thing. With the compound pharmacy, you get a vial and then you can scale the dose down yourself, and then you work with the doctor and you're like, okay, I was on this dose, let's go on this week on this dose. And then what they can do is you can be like, hey, listen, man, I went on the lower dose this week and for the last two weeks, like it's uncontrollable. I feel the appetite and I'm having a tough time. Like, all right, let's scale you up for again and let's step down a little slower. And so you can kind of do this up-down, scale-down process with... Baby, step it down. That's right. Yes. And if you're already paying out of pocket, you'll actually save money with the compound pharmacy anyway. It's going to be cheaper anyway. So what I would suggest to you, if you really want to make this stick, you want the best, best, best possible approach would be to work with a coach through this process and then be able to work with a... Get your GLP from a compound pharmacy and work with a doctor that scales it down. And then that process would probably look like, I don't know, three or six months of off ramping. And then you got the GLP in your back pocket. If four months later, you're like, oh my God, this is getting... And then you go back on and then kind of... And so we've... I've seen people do that. Well, they'll jump on two or three times and then finally get off and then they're all good. So it's definitely light at the end of the tunnel. Great. The other two things about orange theory that have kind of informed this thought process are that there's only so high you can go with weights, right? Like there's a limit to those dumbbells. And then with the... I don't want to say it's random because I know there's a structure, but with my schedule, I might be hitting the two of the same body parts two days in a row and then three days later doing something else. And it feels a little inconsistent. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's not ideal. Honestly, you did the best you could do with it. You did a great job. You really did. I'm really proud of what you applied to this because you did a hell of a job. I'll give you the ideal. So the ideal would be you work with one of our coaches, have them individualize your workout program, whatever results you're getting from orange theory, you're going to get way better results with individualized strength training. And they'll coach you through the nutrition behavior part. And then I'll send you a link to our people who work with a compound pharmacy. And you can compare the prices and do the whole thing. You'll probably end up saving money. Not probably. I know she will. See, it's significantly cheaper. Yeah. And then through that process, you tell them, hey, my goal with this is I'm already taking it. My goal is to scale it down. And then they'll do that. They'll work through a scale down process. And then they'll individualize it. And you'll be in contact with them through this process. You could always message them, uh, you'll have a dashboard. You'll be able to message them as, Hey, I think that dose was too low. Uh, is it okay if I bump it up again, type of deal, and they'll work with you. And then you'll work with your coach simultaneously. And I think this is probably, you're probably looking at a three or six month process. Okay. And then, uh, one last question for you. So you see my weight there. I'm five foot nine. And I honestly never thought like this kind of success would be available to me. So I'm like, okay, now where does this go? Like, if I'm going into paring menopause at the healthiest weight body fat percentage, I can be like, I'm not super worried. I mean, I obviously want to look good, but like, where is that body fat percentage, you know, best for success mid 20s. Yeah, you're probably mid 20s. Yeah. Mid 20s is a nice target. You're not far from there. Yeah, you're not. You're doing, you're doing great. And on it. Okay. So honestly, here's the other thing too. So, uh, the way that usually we work with a GLP one patient as they're scaling down is we time it with a reverse diet. It just works out better. Your appetite's going up anyway. Let's build some muscle. Let's boost your metabolism. We do a reverse diet. Then we set you up for a nice cut. And then that's when the 5% body fat drops off your body. Okay. So that's the strategy. Cool. Yeah. Doing good. Doing really good. So I'll send you the link. You can talk to the doctors there and then I'm going to, um, have a coach call you and talk to the coach about this. And then it'll be great if we see you in there. I'll pop in. Yeah. I'd love to hear back from you about three to six months too. It'd be cool to catch back up, but you've done really well on your own. Yes. Like really good job. Yep. Thank you guys. Thank you. Really appreciate your time. Thank you. Have a great rest of your day. She's going to crush. I know. She's totally great place right now. She's 100%. I couldn't wait for Doug to pull up the, because obviously we're listening to the OTF and the GOP one and one, oh, this is going to be bad. And I saw that she had posted her results and I'm like, let's see, because it'll tell the whole story. She crushed. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that is, that is, uh, an example of how you can use that class. In fact, her lean body mass was lower in the second measurement than it was the last. She actually built muscle at the end. Yeah. The only way they have is she deliberately did her own rest periods. Like, oh yeah, I know that. She literally did that. And she hit her protein times. Yeah. And protein times. Yeah. Yeah. I know. She did a good job. Because usually what you see, because what is that? That's a 30. It's like almost 40 pounds of weight loss. Half and half. Usually you would see 40 pounds and a good 15 of it. Oh yeah. At least, at least. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost half, especially on the GLP one. It's a great time for transition. Yeah. Sure. Our next caller is Jake from Wisconsin. What's up, Jake? How you doing, Jake? What's happening? Hey, guys. Great to talk with you. Thanks for taking your time with me. You got it, dude. How can we help you? Yeah. Just want to start off by saying thank you for all you guys do for us out here. Just living our lives in the world and whatnot. My wife has been a listener since 2018 and she got me on the train 2019. So nice. Been with you guys for a while. Thanks. So in February, she started training with one of your trainers and kind of got my butt kicked a little bit. So I was like, hey, let's do a little challenge here. Right? Let's see who can get in the best shape by the end of August. So our anniversary is beginning September. So and she gets one of our coaches. You're fucked, Jake. You're so fucked. That's why I'm on here. We'll help you out as much as we can right here. So we're just doing eye tests, you know, whoever looks better. So obviously she's going to win like all this stuff. Yeah. I'm like, what are you talking about? For sure. Tell her she won. Yeah. You just got to concede that. I'm not, I'm not stupid. We're all right. He still wins. He still wins. Yeah. Yeah. Smart guy. Yeah. She was also in like the top 1% of listeners on Spotify last year. So yeah, just chill. Yeah. So started off in February. I'm just about to finish up anabolic for the first time. I've kind of been a yo-yo worker, an older person for the last, you know, eight years or so. Started off calories were 2600. I bumped up to 29 right now where I'm kind of stabilized at 188 to 190 for my weight, even though 180 grams of protein a day. My lifts are going up pretty good. I just got my OneRep Max incline up to 190. Squats about 270. I'm still a little bit of ways for my go-long, I'm where I want to be with that. So especially the incline. I got like indents where I should have pecs, right? So it's like, I really want that chest to blow up. Other information, I'm 34-1. Work a desk job. I work in IT. Got four kids under 10. Winter's over here. So I'm going to start getting my activity up. So I'm looking forward to that. I currently have anabolic performance in MAPS 15. So I guess what the question is, is what should I be doing for the next four months if I win? Quote, unquote, win. Yeah. And just wondering what I should do for my nutrition. How much should I go up to for my calories and all that stuff. So please help me beat my wife. You got four months? Static goal. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Four more months. Yeah. We started in February. So it's kind of like a seven month time. It's something we're trying to build though, right? That's it sounds like you're more interested in building than you are. Here's what you do, dude. You take, you take her favorite candy bar and you hide them throughout the house. You sabotage. Sprinkled her morning shake. You win. She's been baking all sorts of stuff, dude. I'm done for. You got to reverse diet followed by a cut and, uh, and, and focus on getting stronger at the end when you're cutting a phase one style anabolic program is good because you want low volume when you're cutting. Do you need to cut? You look like you're pretty lean. I've always been skinny guys. So this is the most I've ever weighed is one. Yes. Well, he might bulk all the way through. I know he could. Yeah. You might as well just build. Just keep building. You'll probably look the best you ever looked. Yeah. Just keep going. Yeah. It sounds like you're actually doing a good job. It's, and it sounds more than anything else is just consistently keep doing that. Have you lifted? Yeah. Like keep, keep getting stronger. Keep hitting your protein consistently. Reverse dieting. Don't miss your workouts, reverse and keep bumping the calories. I, I, if I was coaching you, I'd be trying to keep pushing those calories, 200 calories every couple of weeks. So we'd go up 200. I'd be here, here in your feedback. How do you feel? How your workouts, how your lifts? And then let's go up another 200. I would just keep inching you up like 200 calories every other week or so and keep pushing, pushing that and pushing weight and strength and consistency. And I think you'll build right into this, this competition and hopefully we'll probably look and feel the best you've ever felt. Cool. Yeah. So that last month, I would kind of do a cut then or if you wanted to, if you wanted to, if you're already a pretty lean guy, you know what your percentage body fat sits at? Yeah, about 19, 19 to 20. Oh yeah. No. Okay. So if we're at 19 to 20, yeah, then what I would do is reverse diet for about two, two and a half months, the last eight weeks or so, then you go into a cut. But when you go into the cut, don't dramatically increase your volume of training. No, no, no, everybody does that. They go into cutting and they start doing crazy cardio and stuff. You go into a cut and you actually drop the volume a little bit and the low rep phases tend to be better because of the volume is lower. Okay. So it would probably be like an eight week reverse diet followed by like an eight week mild kind of nice cut. I'll give you some generic advice that should work pretty well knowing where your numbers are and what he just gave you. So do exactly what he said. If we do that right, your calorie should be upwards of 3500 calories by the time it comes time to cut. Okay. Okay. So literally take your 3500 calories, drop it down to like 29 to 3000 calories every week for those eight weeks, try and get 2000 more steps per week per day. So in other words, like let's say you average 8000 steps a day or 6000 steps a day. So week one of that cut, get up to 8000 week two of the cut, get up to 10,000. Do that through just activity and walking until you have to get on a treadmill or you have to get on elliptical to get those steps up. Literally do that in that, that deficit for 600 calories every week. You'll get the end. Don't change anything else. Just do that all the way. If you'll drop a good, you'll drop close to a percent body for a week or something. Yes. That'll be a perfect, like if you ramp up, goal should be to get up to 35, 3600 calories. Just slowly and your engineer web getting stronger. Final eight weeks, getting ready for is, is the cut. The cut looks like drop about 600 calories and every week at about 2000 steps. That should lean you out nicely right into that and don't change anything else. All right. Sounds good. That's a pretty good map. One last question. So can you guys just encourage my wife? She's kind of one of these people who like worries about the weight, right? So just encourage her or stick with the plan. Yeah. Just don't do it. Yeah. Do you know who her coach is? Cause maybe we can peek in on one of her calls. Mary, she just shouted from the other side of the wall. Okay. No good. She's working with a coach. She's doing great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We actually, I just like to just tell her, we appreciate the support. Yep. Thank you so much for listening to the show for as long as she has. Yeah. Even if it only took Jake three years to finally get on board. Yeah. I can only listen to you guys so much. Yeah. Yeah. Right on. Well, I love a, I love a pick of the two of you guys before you guys hit your vacation to be cool to see kind of the before and after and everything like that. We'll pick the winner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I said. She said no on that, but I'm like, I'm just going to do it anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. Love it. You guys keep it up, dude. All right, Jake. All right, man. Thanks. Take it easy. That sounds like a trap, right? At the end of this. We'll just look at each other and say who won. Like, bro, we're going to get your friends to judge you. Yeah. That's a trap, dude. I mean, I think he knows what he's doing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's, yeah. I feel like he knows what he's doing. I think he's, I think he has, I think he has every intention to lose. Exactly. I would. I would too. I don't know. I get real competitive. Yeah. I'm crushing. Yeah. That's great. Look, if you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram, Mind Pump Media. 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