This week on the chef's cut, we're asking the serious questions like is the Michelin guide devaluing its own brand? They're just sending plaques to everybody. Every single restaurant, it used to be very definitive that if you saw that red plaque, you knew that they had one, two or three stars. Is it okay to wear a baseball hat and hoodie to a steakhouse? It was just funny. See like Ruth, I was like Ruth Chris. Right. Of all steakhouses to institute a dress code and is the viral wanton lasagna worthy of the height? Damn, this is good. Is that good? Is it? They got it right. If you're a fan of the chef's cut, please take a few seconds to rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps. Big thing I read this week that a bunch of people have been sending me. I don't know if you saw this, but Ruth Chris, the steakhouse, you're familiar with them. I don't know if there have been to a Ruth Chris. I've been to a Ruth Chris for sure. In the news, battling it out with chilies, which I'm sure you have been to. Absolutely. Happy hour. Overdress code. Oh, I did see that. On the bingo card of weird stuff was not on my, was not on mine. Maybe it was on yours that they were going to battle it out over dress codes on the internet. But it was an interesting thing because Ruth Chris basically came out and said, we're going to institute a dress code. And their dress code was like, basically, they don't want people wearing hats in the dining room anymore, tank tops, hoodies, revealing clothing or beach attire, I think was the other one. Okay. Interesting choice of, okay. Of things. Okay. Of things. So there's a lot of, you know, a lot of things about this. Yeah. I'm like, who are you targeting with hoodies and hats? Hmm. Feels away. Feels, I feel some kind of way about that. Yeah. So, you know, and I think both of us coming from a fine dining background, right? And we both worked in fine dining when still the era of there was a bit of dress code. You know, when I worked at Spiaggia, a really big deal was right before I started there, they had removed the policy where you had to wear a jacket in the dining room. It used to be a place where they keep extra jackets in the coat room in case you showed up without a jacket so you could still sneak to your friends. But I think that's kind of gone by the wayside. That's why it's like, the hoodie one's an interesting one. Because like a hoodie is not a hoodie is not a hoodie. You know what I mean? I saw you walk by me in a Montclair hoodie the other day. I'm like, that must be a $350. He was sitting at a car chauvin. He was wearing a Montclair hoodie. I'm like, that's gotta be a $350 hoodie. Right. So there's expensive hoodies out there. But it's a weird thing and it seems to mostly exist in steakhouses right now. And I think it's because a lot of the newer steakhouses, including my own, like a high end steakhouse, there's almost like a quasi like club element to it a little bit. So it's like, it's celebration, right? People go out to party. People go out to do these things. So it's a weird mix of like, okay, how much is it? But it's still a high end experience. It's a high ticket average, you know, going to a steakhouse costs as much as going to, you know, one Michelin star meal. Yeah, it's a tasty menu. I've been to Boulevard. People are getting jiggy to get there. Like girls are in dresses and heels. Guys are in like, you know, nice outfits. Also like people get dressed up to go to a lot of steakhouses. People get dressed to go. And it's awesome. I love it. I think it's part of like the cool thing. I love when people get dressed up for a dinner. So then you have this weird circumstance like Ruth Chris coming out and saying, we're not going to allow you to do these things. Right. And also, so this is my question. I just want to know because you own a steakhouse and I go to steakhouses. Is Ruth's Chris the kind of steakhouse that can institute a dress code? Like, I thought Ruth's Chris was on the more like kind of casual end of steakhouses. I've been to a Ruth's Chris, but I can't say I've ever gotten super dressed up to go to a Ruth's Chris. It's like, fine. Jean's in a nice top, but am I putting on heels and a dress? No. No, it's kind of like the chilies of steakhouses. It's like a longhorn that's just in the city. You know what I mean? Like it's not that's, but like, you know, as much as like, I think it's like people trying to maintain a level of elegance. Right. I think Ruth Chris trying to do that is beyond Ruth Chris, but it used to be, I remember no shirt, no shoes, no service. That was what was on the window of McDonald's of Burger King of pretty much. I think that's reasonable. Right. And that's fast food. And for certain restaurants like La Bernardin also had a jacket policy. You couldn't eat in the dining room without a jacket. And just like Spiaccia, they had that closet with different sizes. So a gentleman could get a jacket if he didn't come with one. And then you could wear jeans as long as they were crisp and dark jeans, because then it still looks a little dressier. What about, what about hats? Hats? No, no, nobody could wear hats. All right. So let me ask you this then. Can, you know, if, what do you think? Like, do you think people should be allowed to wear hat and a hoodie in a steakhouse? High end steakhouse? I do think it depends on how it looks. I think I can wear a hoodie that is like, this is a, I'm going for a walk after working out at the gym kind of hoodie. And then there's like, I have a nice travel hoodie, you know, that's like, you can have on a cashmere hoodie that looks very crisp and looks really nice and looks kind of elegant. So I don't think people need to be policing the types of clothing by item. I think they need to look at how somebody is dressed. Just say we have a dress code that we enforce. You don't have to put the items on there. Like, that's all I just say. It's a weird thing. You have to be dressed nicely. Right. And it's, it's, it's weirdly like just because there's kind of a more party atmosphere to these steakhouses where it seems to come up much, much more than any other restaurants. Yeah. But it was just funny seeing like Ruth, I was like Ruth, Chris. Right. Of all steakhouses to institute a dress code? It was like somebody commented and said, why don't you work on not having a shitty ass name for a steakhouse instead of this? And I was like, that's, I love the internet. But you know, that Chili's just tweeted up something like, yeah, like just come as you are. It's chili's. Right. Chili said, Chili said, as long as you are dressed, that is our only dress code. The best. Like, you know, that's the thing. So they had to get back to the no shirt, no shoes, no service thing. Right. They're like, you got a shirt on. You come to Chili's. Exactly. People dress more casually now than they used to in general. And yes, if you want to have a really nice steakhouse, have it really beautifully decorated, because then you feel like this is the kind of place I dress up to Boulevard. You've got that beautiful staircase, that massive chandelier. It evokes the feeling of I want to get dressed up to come here. Ruth's Chris. I'm like, I got flip flops. I just left the beach. Ruth's Chris is the kind of steakhouse I'm going to after the beach. I'm not going to Boulevard. I'm here for Ruth's Chris having a fucking seat on this. There's not a lot of times you'll hear me say this, Cheatham, but I'm team Chili's on this one. Joe, I have a special surprise today. I love a surprise. Okay. So you know we have not done fork it or forget it in a while, right? It's been a while. It has been a while. And you know, I kind of have a soft spot for these viral recipes that I see online. And once in a while, they really peak my interest because they really look so damn good. We'll catch you this time. Okay. So I have a little show until. Are you ready? Is it another baklava? Oh, God, no. I made the wonton lasagna. Oh, I've seen this one. This is the one where you layer all the wonton wrappers and then like the pork and like the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have seen this one. It's like everything you want, right? It's like a dumpling, but a bigger portion. It reminds me like those bakes like you'd have, like, you know, like growing up or like you get them at like a cafeteria in high school. They'd be like, oh, this is the Mexican enchilada bake and it wasn't really an enchilada. It wasn't really Mexican, but it was like ground beef and a bunch of things like baked together. But it was like awesome. And it kind of had like lasagna crust to it. Oh, damn, this is good. Is that good? Is it? They got it right. Is it? Okay. Here's my question though. Is there a crispiness to it? Because I like it. I do enjoy a crispy dumpling. There is no crispiness to it because it is steamed. So the top layer of wonton dough gets nice and supple and soft. The only texture in this is coming from the chili crisp that I put on top. And it is delightful. Should we talk about how insane it is that you bake that at a ramekin instead of a pyrex? I mean, the recipe I saw had little individual ramekins. It was beautiful. Little individual ramekins? Yeah. I've seen it like a pyrex. Like it's supposed to be like a lasagna, right? I think who's making individual lasagnas and tidy ramekits? Look, the recipe I saw that had over a thousand five star reviews, they were baked in ramekin. So I baked it in a ramekin. And I also don't have a pyrex here. So that's crazy. Say lovey. So here I am with my ramekin and I made one for Stephen too, so he can have his later. But this is freaking delicious. Oh my God. Does look really good. Can I eat this? Yeah, send me one of those. All right. So I'm forking that. I'm with you out that I would have baked it at a pyrex because I'm a reasonable human. That's the only the only part you would astray at this. This is so good though. Holy shit. All right. I'll give it a fork it. So that's a fork it for you. Yeah, the internet one. So I think we got to get back into something that we talked about recently, because it feels like they almost heard the conversation. Maybe it was all the tags. I think I know you're talking about. But your good buddies in France, your favorite tire company, Michelin, has seemed to have changed the playbook a little bit lately. Yeah, what are they up to? Where, you know, from like inspector profiles almost on the like I've seen on their social media to try to add transparency to that thing where it was like the food of what do they call it food of the American South? Yeah, they had. Is that what that post was? Dishes we love. Dishes we love of the American South. They're Southern cuisine dishes that we love at Michelin. It was just like what? But you know, the thing that I found crazy also. So you know a restaurant has a Michelin star because they get that red plaque. Yeah, with the one star on it. Or two or three. Yeah, it used to be shaped like a star. Yeah, it's the Michelin has the like bubble six point star. Yeah, with rounded edges. And then they went to the red square plaque. Yeah. And it had the star it had the it had Michelin guide, it had the name of the restaurant, but above Michelin guide, there's a blank red space. It had the number of stars that that restaurant had. Now, Michelin is creating the Michelin guide or recommended restaurants that don't have stars, no big gourmand, but they're sending out plaques to all these restaurants. Right. I don't understand because it's not big gourmand. It's recommended. It's recommended, but that's just like we have a dining guide to, you know, to Denver, Colorado. So here's here's a bunch of restaurants we ate out there. Here's the ones with Michelin stars. And they're just sending plaques to everybody. Every single restaurant, it used to be very definitive that if you saw that red plaque, you knew that they had one, two or three stars. Well, and that was also it was a really big day. It was a really big day like when that star showed up every year. You know, that was like a cool thing. It would show up in the mail and we'd always, you know, like take a picture with it and like be like, oh, we got our stars, you know, like, but yeah. So then they started setting out these rec and the recommended plaques, which I don't like, you know, it's all this their transparency stuff. Like I felt like they just like sent them. I think so too. Like, you know, like, like we got one at Rosemary. They sent me one. Oh, did you put your plaque up? I did not. Why not? Well, like my chef's experience, she was like, what's this about? And I said, I don't really know. Oh my gosh. So you didn't put the plaque up? No, I don't know where to put it. But like, so like we have it, but I also like, it feels weird to put it up. It's like, like, oh, so you guys have a star. It's like, no. It's like, oh, they give you a plaque. It's like, yes. So what does that mean? It's like, that means they like us, but they don't like like us like us. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like they're floating, like, you know, like they're floating, but they're not interested. I'm not sure. Like I'm very confused. Like this is, you know, to be like the most Facebook poke of plaques, you know, like it's, it's very confusing. But you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of like participation trophies. But you have to be good to get it. But it's still like you're, we're not giving you a star, but we will, we'll say that we ate here and we liked it. So it's kind of like the participation trophies of the Michelin world in a way. And it's weird that they didn't give us like the restaurants clarity on us. They weren't like, Hey, this is a new thing we're doing. You're being included in this as a Michelin recommended restaurant. It was just like a plaque showed up. And also mine was like, said Northeast. So I was like, Northeast of what? Is that how Michelin defines the regions? Northeast of like Omaha. Of the Mississippi River. Like, yeah, like Northeast of St. Louis. So to me, it shows how little they know about American cuisine. It shows how little they know about America. What do you mean? They love food of the American South. Right. I mean, it to me, it's so disingenuous. It really seems like Michelin is just, it's just a marketing play. They're really just trying to gain more visibility among American diners because they're a European company. And people look at them and say, Oh, they only recognize European cuisine in America. And they're trying to say, Oh, we love Southern cuisine. You know, we have the biscuits here. We have the fried chicken here. You know, we have this Caribbean cuisine. Oh, look, we a jerk. And it's like, we love, but they don't, but they don't get it. They don't get it. They don't get America even enough to recognize Chicago is in the Midwest. If they're calling it Northeast, like, what did they just break the country up into four quadrants? This is the thing that drives me nuts with them. And I know there's lots of things and we've talked about it at length of all the things that they do that drive us nuts. But it's like, just tell us what the fuck's going on. Right. Right. Like, why like, listen, it's really nice for the team to get recognized. Any way, shape or form, my team works their ass off. That's quad over there is so good. You know, what Christine's doing over there, we're almost five years in, and I think the place has genuinely never been better. It just keeps getting better because of the people that are there every day and how hard they work and how passionate they are about making it better. And so anything that recognizes their hard work on a national or international level, you know, that's fantastic. That is absolutely fantastic. It's great for the team. It's great for us. But if like, like, genuinely, when you ask me, you're like, Well, what does that mean? It's like, I don't know. I don't know how to explain that to my chefs. I feel like, like, like when my little kids ask me something that's too complicated, and I'm like, Oh, no, that sure works. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like, well, like, why does that satellite work? It's like, who knows? Like, you know, ask somebody who's a satellite scientist. Like, I'm not, um, this is going to sound weird, but I'm going to their website right now. And I'm going to try to see if they even can answer that question, because it seems like they don't have any clear direction about what they're doing. I feel like Michelin has gotten out a little over their skis in the US market. They don't really understand the diversity. They don't really understand the regional cuisine. They're kind of just going off of stereotypes and lumping things in together. The French should know better. This is Napoleon in Russia. You know what I mean? This is he just didn't realize how big it was. You know, it's like, they should know better. And I think it's like weird. It's like, I don't know who the head of Michelin is. I don't know anyone who works for Michelin in Chicago, because it's all cloak and dagger, you know, secret society type shit. So it's like, there's not anyone to ask. You know what I mean? It's not like where it's like James Beard, you know, who works at the foundation. You know what I mean? You can like get a hold of people if you chose to. I would imagine. I don't know. I've never tried, but like I would assume if I wanted to talk to someone, maybe someone would talk to me, at least like I could find their name. But like that's the weird thing. It's like, I don't even know where to begin to be like, oh, hey, you know, like I'll just go to the Michelin office downtown, like next to the DMV and wait in line with my plaque and be like, Hey, I got this plaque in the mail. What does this mean? Well, you know, well, okay, I will tell you what it says here. Can I tell you what I found? Okay. Tell me. So Michelin selected is what they're calling it. And it says it's often associated with the Michelin plate or simply suggested or selected by the Michelin guides. And these are accolades that are awarded to restaurants that offer good food, quality ingredients and skilled cooking, but do not meet the strict criteria for a star or a bib gourmand. Hmm. So it's a good meal considered worth visiting, often offering a more accessible dining experience than starred restaurants. So it is distinctly different from bib gourmand stars. And it says here they are introducing this to recognize more establishments with quality food, shifting from the previous Michelin icon to just being a selected restaurant. It feels like they could have just adjusted the bib gourmand for inflation. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Like, cause that's what it seems like this is. It's like, it's a little bit too expensive to be a bib gourmand, but you're a bib gourmand. Right. And it's like, if you have a very strict criteria for what is a bib gourmand, a one, two, three star, you're really just trying to get more people to buy your guides. You're just trying to get more clicks on your website so you can get more ad revenue. That's all you're doing here is you're trying to increase visibility among a market that doesn't like you. Americans largely are like, oh, we need Europeans to come in and tell us what food is good. Man, that's from, from, from our last conversation about it. That's sure as hell, how it feels like, is everybody was like, you know, we don't need them to tell us shit. Right. Right. So yeah, that's like the strange thing. So that's, and that's completely what it feels like. Right. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, hey, like, we're just saying like, this is a really good restaurant in this city, but like, we don't want to give it like one of our buckets. So we're trying to find another bucket to throw like places where it's like, we don't care about being good for them, but we think they're good for us as a brand. Because that's what it feels like to me. You know what I mean? Is they're saying like, we think Rosemary is good for Michelin visibility and for the Michelin brand, but we don't think we, oh, Rosemary, anything. We don't think they're good enough that we're going to like actually give them a Michelin star or, you know what I mean? Are reasonable enough that we're going to give them a Bib Gourmand, but we really like the idea of, you know, our name next to theirs, but we're not, you know what I mean? So it's like, well, then yeah, I'm not hanging your fucking plaque on the wall. And it's interesting that the places that I've seen, they're sending these plaques out to places that do amazing food that to me should at least have a Bib Gourmand adjusted for inflation because you're right. It's hard to be super affordable. You can't pin a certain dollar amount with today's inflation. They need to adjust that according to the market. You can't just say, here are the parameters for Bib Gourmand on a pure dollar basis if you're not adjusting for economics around the world and how much things cost. So they're sending them to restaurants that do amazing food like Elmina in DC, Havon Marr here in New York, Rosemary in Chicago. They're sending them to all these restaurants that also attract a certain type of diner. People who know food, people who want to experience food, people who go out to eat and know kind of what Michelin is, but maybe aren't beholden to saying, I only go to Michelin restaurants or they don't use that as they're like clout. Like, oh, I went to all these Michelin restaurants. I just know good food and I go to where good chefs are creating delicious food. And that's the target audience. I think the validity of the places they picked, and I'm not just saying this from a self-serviced standpoint, it's like the other people who I saw seem to get them in Chicago. We're all places I really like. Yeah. We're all restaurants that are really good. Right. But to me, I was like, no, fuck it if you think they're that good, get off this tasty menu bullshit and give them a star. Give them a star. They're star good. Right. And that's what Michelin, that's the disconnect to me between Michelin's strict criteria, as they say, our strict criteria of what meets it and good food. So in the US, good food does not have to be in a multi-course tasting menu. A lot of American diners don't necessarily want that on a regular basis. And you can do excellent food with incredible technique and really cool flavors and an interesting POV without doing a tasting menu. But Michelin's criteria is set for a country where that is revered and where that is the standard. And they're applying their lens of what they think food should be and the format in which it should be served to a market that has a different set of values. Right. Because it's just like, you know, I think there's lots of conversations now about like, is the tasty menu dead or whatever and that. And I feel like that conversation circulates every few years. Right. And I don't think it is. And I think it still holds place. I just think it's harder and harder for that business model to work because it's hard to get a lot of people to do tasty menus every night. I think like on a weekend, you know, a special occasion, like it becomes that, but I think like to get, you know, especially at like the one Michelin star level where it's like the three, I feel like the three is like people traveling from all around the world to go eat there. Right. And you could be busy all the time, but like at the one star level where it's like, you're you're a very expensive restaurant. And like that Tuesday in January, finding, you know, 100 or 200 people willing to do that on a Tuesday, I think is really, really difficult. And I don't think it's because it's a bad restaurant or tasting menus are dead. I just think it's because of the approachability of it, of like, it's hard to get a lot of people to spend a lot of money on a Tuesday night. I think New York, you know what I mean, is kind of an outlier in that just because there's such more of a denser population and there's so much more wealth in New York than any other city in, you know, the United States. So like, you see super busy one Michelin star restaurants in New York, because it feels approachable for Manhattan, you know what I mean, but it's like it's not approachable for a lot of cities. So I think like that's where like their skew is wrong too. So many things about the way they're doing this is wrong. And I really feel like the recommended plaques while I agree that they have selected excellent restaurants, I don't agree with them sending out plaques because if you if you're Michelin and you do stars and you do Bib Gourmand, that is what you do. Stay in your lane. Now you're just trying to become a dining guide. You want ad revenue, you want clicks, you want more customer dollars for the services that you offer and you're trying to become a voice in a country that you've only entered since the 2000s. And it feels like the one of those, you know, the old saying in restaurants where they're like, if you try to be everything to everybody, you're going to be nothing to anyone. Right. And that's what that's what it feels like. It feels like it just deludes the brand. Yep. Steven and I were at a restaurant in Miami and they had their recommended plaque up, you know, above the pass of the open kitchen and the table sitting next to us said, oh, look, they have a Michelin star. And I was like, they, I didn't say it all out, but I'm like, they absolutely I was like, that would be, that would be like the most like unhinged like behavior. And I would love it so much if you got up and you're like, actually they don't know. Just like, but it's like, okay, it's like also like that would be insane, insane to be like, why are you doing this lady hating on this restaurant because it was a very good restaurant. But the perception this could have a Michelin star. Maybe it could. It totally could. It totally could have a Michelin star. But you're like, you're like the context is wrong. Yes. Like these people have it. And it's they're so excited that they're like, oh man, this is a Michelin star restaurant. And I'm like, should I tell them no, because then I'm hating on the restaurant. Like I didn't, I just felt weird to also butt in on another couple's conversation. I think you should have said something. I think it was an opportunity because it's this opportunity on your part to clarify for the gentleman. Just walked over said, Chef Adrian Cheatham from the chef's cut pod. Let me get in here. Right. Pulled up a chair. It's like blow the referee whistle. And I just appear and like tell people I'll take the I'll take the check. I'm actually leaving. We're actually leaving right now. But that's yeah, I mean, going back to the conversation about dress code. So how Michelin, a lot of restaurants were jacket required, and then started to relax that because society relaxed how we dress. People now dress a lot more casually than they used to dress for work for going out for everything. So the culture has shifted in terms of what we like, what we eat, what we find important, especially after COVID, things change tremendously. And Michelin is like three steps behind at every turn trying to keep up with the way things actually are here. Because it to me, it doesn't seem like they truly, truly understand American cuisine, the regions, the diversity, the way that they had biscuits, they understand it. No, no recommended though. They recommended this biscuit. That's crazy. They even had a post that they did about Caribbean restaurants and the value. I was like, Oh, did did somebody share our posts with them or share our episode of it where we asked if they were racist or cuisinist? And seems like somebody got the message because they're so so Michelin, if you are listening to anybody, anyone over there, you want to come on. Oh, we would love it. You want to come chop it up with us, please hit the hotline. Hit the hotline. Hit the chef's cut DMs and say, Hey, we'll block out your face. We'll give you like the give you like the worst of it. Oh, yeah, we'll even go in studio together, Joe. Dude, I'm signing an NDA. I've signed plenty of NDAs. I haven't read. So let's go. Let's go. Everybody out there. Chef's cut pod putting you all on there. Find your local Michelin person, find them out, get them on the pod. Let's get our questions answered. Yep. It's a goal for 2026. We got to get to the bottom of this storm the Michelin headquarters in France. Oh, this Michelin conversation's got some legs. I can honestly say I'm still pissed off about so many things about it. So I really feel like this conversation will keep coming up. Feels like it will. I mean, people are still commenting on the last conversation. It's like, you know, it's still like that one went went hot. And you think it's so niche because of like our industry and what Michelin is. And you know what I mean? It's not, you know, it's still being new to the US and new to so many markets here. And they keep expanding and going different places. And, you know, now they're going to do Southwest and now and it's like they can't possibly have the bandwidth. They would have to have so many inspectors. The James Beard Awards gets American cuisine. That needs to be recognized to me above Michelin because Michelin came from the outside. The whole point is that that is a way to recognize excellence. Are you making excellent food? Period. Then you can win an award. And like now Michelin saying, you got to do this and this and this and this. Are you making excellent food? Right. I think with all things across all ports, it's like there's a level of food and it's like that should be it. Yeah. That should be it. Like that's what it's supposed to be. According to everyone's bullshit that they put out there. It's like it's about the food. It's about the food. Like blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, all right. Then like be about it. I think Michelin needs to stay in their lane. One, two, three stars. Bib gourmand adjusted for inflation. Leave the rest alone. Leave America to the Americans. Leave American cuisine to the Americans who know Americans. Who do who do Adrian was going to get so patriotic today? I know, right? I'm like, I'm now brother. Screaming eagle flying overhead. See, I think we should like maybe just go the opposite route. We should start talking like good year or like Firestone and be like, let's get a new thing going here. Like, you know, let's see some homegrown talent. We're going to get the Ford dining guide, Ford motors. We'll go to a tire company for tire company. We'll get one of those Japanese tire brands, except it would be like no one would have three stars. Yeah. Everybody gets like a half. It would be one restaurant of the world with one star. That'd be it. Oh, Joe, this is a blast. Oh man, this is fun. I'm going to I'm actually going to finish my one ton lasagna though after we finish speaking of excellent food. That's a one star lasagna right there. All right, that is it for this episode of the chefs cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube where you can find full length videos of every episode and be sure to follow us on IG at the chefs cut pot for Joe Flam. I'm Adrienne Cheatham and this has been the chefs cut life beyond the past.
