2851: The Real Reason You Can't Stay Consistent (It's Not Motivation)

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If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Easily the most important factor to consider when it comes to your fitness is consistency. This is the most challenging thing for almost everybody. So here's what we did. We looked at all the surveys and data and we found the top five reasons why people are able to stay consistent with the workouts and we're going to talk about them right now. Is that an include, so like would this be on there? Habit stacking. Is that on there? It's not. It's not. No, so these are reasons I'm going to pull them up. These are reasons why people, like what are they writing down in terms of, you know, what keeps them consistent? And what you find in the data is number one, and this is obvious, you guys, is enjoyment. Okay. At the top of the list. Enjoy doing it. Yeah, that they actually like the workout. And I think this is, it sounds obvious, you know, once we talk about it, but so many people go into working out hating it. Yeah. With the mindset that they're going to hate it, that they never get out of that mindset. And I don't look, I don't care how good something is for you. If you hate it, you trying to do that for the rest of your life, like good luck. It's just not going to happen. Yeah, long term is just the terrible strategy. And do you believe that that's something that you can change? Like, yeah, yeah. And well, I'll ask you, Adam, because we've talked about this before with jobs. How many jobs have you had that were not your ideal job, but you find a way to make yourself enjoy it? I mean, I'm such, I don't know if it's, I mean, is it considered your lying to yourself? You know, are you, are you just, are you trying to practice, connect, do the things that you do like in it? So maybe like, because you're right. I've had some pretty shit jobs. And I can honestly say I enjoy doing all of them. Were there, were there parts of them that I didn't like or that sucked or sure. But I think the thing that I hacked into at a very young age was learning to focus on the aspects I did like. So, and I think some people that get started, because I've had many clients like this that like admittedly like, I hate to work out, you know, I pay you to, because I know I won't come unless I pay you to, to show up to this thing. And I care more about losing money than I care. You know what I'm saying? That, that was like their motivation of having a personal trainer. And my goal was always to get them to try and connect the dots to the other parts of it that you do like, like you can't possibly hate all of it, right? There's got to be, you got to like the fact that after you work out, you feel good later on the day, right? Or you have to know that you sleep better when you're consistently doing your workouts. You got to like the fact that you can get away with eating foods that maybe you couldn't eat. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I think it's just a mindset shift that you have to work on to find that enjoyment. Well, you were saying like the reason why we know this to be true is because this is what we learned how to do as trainers with our clients. This is, this was number one. As I became a better trainer and the way that I would have measured my success as a trainer was literally, can I get people to want to do this for, for long term? Yeah. Okay. That was the measurement of success for a trainer, by the way. It's not results. It's not all that stuff is important. But it was, can I get this person to develop a relationship with fitness where they're going to always want to do it? Because what I found early on was I could train people great. I could get them great results. The, the, their drop off rate was not, it wasn't great. It was people who still drop off, especially if they stopped working with me. Later, I figured this out or I figured out that this was the problem. And I was able to get, so I was able to get good enough to where even if clients stopped working with me, they were able, they wanted to stay consistent. Part of that as a trainer, and this is what coaches, good coaches know, is when you're coming in to work out with me, a big part of what I'm trying to do is make this enjoyable for me. To your energy. Yeah. Yeah. You had to kind of learn that as a coach is really, you do play a, a big role in that in terms of like your excitement and, you know, what, what they're actually drawing off of when they're coming in. Like, is it, is it a fun environment? I'm, and I, you know, of course, sometimes that would lead me into like structuring some things that they liked more, like say it's like boxing or, you know, some kind of like extracurricular activity. I'm trying to kind of weave that in. And, you know, and this is why I don't judge too much with trainers when you see kind of like, you know, some things where they're, you realize they're doing that for the enjoyment of their client because they like to do those types of activities. But, you know, I would always still stick with like, you know, the main part of the training. But now, I would try and look for cues and signs of things that they picked up on where they're like, oh, wow, I really enjoyed that last set. So enjoyment is number one of these five. Enjoyments number one. And I'm going to, I'm going to just stay here just for a second because I do want to say this, if you're listening, you're like, well, that's silly. I just trick myself, or I just convince myself, or our minds are geared towards the negative. We know this. This is the fact that the data shows us quite clearly. If you go about your day and one bad thing happens, or one frustrating thing happens, you'll focus on that bad or frustrating thing. And you'll forget all the small good things that happen throughout the day. And I've actually done this experiment. I've done where, where I'll set a silent alarm on my phone that would go off every two hours. And every time it would go off, I'd reflect on the previous two hours. And I'd ask myself what blessings happened in the last couple hours. And what was crazy about this was first off, it was things I would have missed by the end of the day. I would have forgot. Number two, it started to train my mind to notice the good things. So by practicing this, I just became more positive. My filter started to change. So you have to go into this thinking to yourself. What are the things I can focus on that I do enjoy about this? Maybe it's not how hard it feels. Maybe that's not the part that I enjoy. But maybe it's how much energy it provides me or it's some time to myself, or it's the conversations I have with the people around me, or it's the reduction in pain. And you can, you can develop a relationship with it where over time, it does become something that you enjoy. In fact, if you talk to anybody who's been working out consistently for a long period of time, you will not find a single person that says they don't enjoy it. They all found a way. Well, you always talk about how like working out as such a microcosm for life. And I think that this applies to so many other things besides this fitness. I know I've shared on the podcast before, the cleaning and doing dishes and stuff like that was like something I did not like doing at all. And looking back now, the five, six years of being very consistent with me being the one to do that every night, it's become something I actually really enjoy. But it didn't happen overnight. It wasn't like I just lied to myself and said, you love doing this. It's like over time, you started to connect the things that what I did like about it. And it's like, you know, I don't really like, I love coming downstairs in the morning and like seeing the house just like completely immaculate. It's like, I appreciate that. I enjoy that. Right. Or I enjoy coming down the stairs and knowing that that glass for that thing is available because it's being cleaned for sure. There's no, it's definitely not dirty in this thing. It's like, so I just started attaching that. Like, you know, I love listening to like relaxing music, why I do that. And it's just quiet time that I can be disconnected from my phone and I can be in my head and do kind of a gratitude. So just, I just started stacking all these things that I noticed it was not, I do not love to scrub a pan in the sink. It's not that it's like, what are all the other things? And then over time, you start to connect to that. And then it becomes this thing like, I actually really enjoy this. I think it's real similar to exercise and those things that you're going to like or connect to are going to be different for every person. You know, like you said, maybe it's not the workout, you know, for others, maybe it is. Maybe it's the outcome. I love to break a good sweat. And like, man, that at least does feel good. Like, I hate getting there, but once I get there, I like it. It's like, you have to start to reframe that to get to that place. So that's number one. I gotta think convenience is in there. No, so these were values that people found in fitness that kept them consistent. So like number one value was the enjoyment, like they enjoyed it. So this is why I do it. Okay. Second value that came up was it helped their mental health and clarity. It gave them pause, peace, helped them with anxiety, made them feel better mentally was number two. This one for me is a big one. This is what keeps me going day in and day out. I know when I don't work out, not a sharp, not as in a good mood, and a workouts put me in a good mood, workouts give me more ideas for the podcast. I know when I used to manage gyms, one of my favorite thing to do was talk to my members who were older, who looked like they've been working out for a while. I used to love talking to them. And I would always ask them the same, I would always ask them this one question, I'd say, why do you keep doing this? How long have you been working out and why do you keep doing this? And every single one of them said, it's the mental part, the mental part I really enjoy how it makes me feel mentally. Yeah. And I think to the more you mature with your training, you realize there's a different workout for a different type of feeling or a different type of state that you're in coming into that day. And I think that our jobs as coaches too is to really like convey that and show that if there's pain, discomfort, over-stressed, or you're just like, you just need a good almost therapy session physically, there's a way to do that. You know, monitoring intensity or, you know, whatever types of movements that you're concentrating on, it's really cool because you can literally use it as medicine. You know, it's funny you bring that up. There's something that that I do now that I never used to do. In fact, at least 20 years of my lifting, I didn't do this. I do this now. When I first get to gym, no matter what I'm doing that day, I almost always go right to the treadmill and walk on the treadmill for the first 10 minutes. Oh, wow. And it's not like I think I'm getting some sort of warm up, but it's really kind of to figure my mental state. And it's like, what do I need today? Like, is today going to be... It's like a little meditation. It is. And it really makes me get and figure out like, what is today's workout going to be? Like, I go there somewhat with an idea, but the truth is I don't make that decision until I'm on that 10 minutes of walking on the treadmill and I'm sitting there going like, you know what, I should probably do some mobility work today. I can feel my hips as I'm walking right now and I haven't done some good stuff. That's what I'm going to start off with. And then maybe I'll do this or that, right? Or it's just like, man, I'm feeling good today. I feel fully recovered. It's like, I'm going to go get after it today. In fact, I'm going to go heavy at this thing. It's like, I never used to do that. I never... In fact, I used to mock all the trainers that we used to and I'm guilty of being this trainer at one point of, you know, put your client on the first 10 minutes of, you know what I'm saying? Of the elliptical or whatever before you start their workout. Like really... And really what that was is so you could shovel down some food before it was like real work. Right. Organize real quick. Yeah. Yeah. Justified as warming up or whatever like that. And it's like, that's really what's going on. But I actually really do that now and enjoy that process. And I think it's to the point you're making right now, which is, you know, each workout does tend to serve a different mindset or adaptation or a thing that I'm looking at. And that's why I say that. Well, it's the data on how exercise affects mental health. We've got really good data now. So people have reported this for a long time, that it feels good. You hear things like the runner's high. It puts me in a good mood. It gives me good ideas. We've known this for a long time, like writer's block. What's the solution for writer's block? Go out and walk. If you want to run. Get you that creative space. Yeah. Improves creativity. Like we've, people have talked about this, but do we have data? Yes. We've got great data now on exercise and depression and anxiety. Here's what the data shows. Exercise is actually more effective. It's more effective than talk therapy and more effective than medical interventions for depression, for the, for the general types of depression people report. And for the types of anxiety that people report. In fact, if we could bottle the benefits of exercise, just the mental health benefits, forget everything else. Just if we could put the mental health benefits in a pill, it would be the greatest selling pharmaceutical in the history of mankind. That's how effective it is at improving your mental health and outlook based on the data. So this, to the point now where a psychologist, a therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, now are starting to use it as part of their protocol. This is what they're starting to recommend. It's so powerful. I've seen this as a trainer. I can see, I see it like in real time. You have a client come in in a bad mood. They leave in a good mood. I've also seen it over time. I've actually had a few clients who referred to me. So at one point I trained a couple of mental health experts or practitioners and they sent me some of their patients. And you know, you could tell there when they'd come in, you could tell that they struggle with certain things. One of them was a young man. One of them was a, was an older gentleman. And over the course of months, the transformation, their mental health was radical. One guy was so bad that when he came in, I had a small studio. So I had the flexibility to be able to do this. We would schedule him when there weren't other trainers in the studio because I had to be no music and we had to have the lights down. He was really sensitive to stimulus. It would actually set him off with anxiety and stuff. So we turned the lights down, no music by the end of our, I mean, towards, I don't remember how long it was. I trained him as it was months. So maybe six months, nine months, music on, lights on other people. Total transformation. There was no difference in his medication. There was no difference in his therapy. It was all from action. And he told me this. He's like, nothing has really impacted me like exercise. That's just a personal example. So when it comes to mental health, this is, it's so powerful that being sedentary is a risk factor for anxiety and depression. So this is how powerful it is. If you don't move your risk of depression, anxiety, skyrocket. So probably one of the most powerful things it does. So do they factor in like, obviously it's going to get you out of this like cognitive loop that you're in where you're just like continually thinking about the same thing. And now you're in body more. And so now you're kind of connected more to the movement aspect, but also don't get like natural rewards chemically from, yeah, working out as well. Yeah, you get feel good chemicals. But when you get feel, when you produce feel good chemicals from chemical stimulation or something that doesn't require work, you get a negative feedback loop. Right. So what the, what they're showing the data is if I take a drug to produce these good feelings, or if I do something that's like, like eat something hyper palatable, or if somebody watches pornography or things like that that tend to cause this dopamine, right? Because there's no hard work that led to it. You get the negative feedback loop when there's work that's involved or effort that's involved with the positive reward, it actually compounds over time. It's pretty remarkable. And exercise produces that. And again, I'll speak to myself. This is the number one reason why I enjoy it. There's I enjoy it for lots of different reasons. But for me, it's like nothing. There's almost nothing that can that I can do that I know will have such a consistent always gets me out of a rut. Totally. Yeah, I'm sick. I see you go work out. I mean, I feel like show me a relationship that's struggling, right? A couple at struggling. And I'll show you a relationship that lacks sex and exercise. I'm serious. I feel like those two things like are so important to like just your own mental health and the factor than a lot of people. Huge. Yeah. I mean, I mean, Katrina and I, we laugh and joke about this. Like if if if if if a two or three days that goes in a row of one of those two missing in the relationship, it's like there's there's a different there's a different vibe with the house. If those Courtney has a barometer, he's like, Oh, it's been three days. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's like, there is a different vibe and energy in the house. If if we've had a couple of those days get strung together of one or both those is like you're you're set up for a fight. You know, sad mood. Yeah, exactly. You just know you're one of one of us is going to be in a crabby mood or both. It's just like wild how important those two things are exercising our body like that. And that physical touch and connection with your partner. It's like they both I think and I think it has a lot to do with like you're saying is that you get this incredible, you know, endorphins and chemical response without the negative feedback like a like a drug would and a lot of those people that aren't getting that are self medicating to try and chase that feeling, but then it has a negative feedback loop. Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Next up is physical health and you can put in there things like strength, lack of pain, like taking care of my body physically, which is different than appearance, which we'll get to. So this is an aesthetics. This is people saying, I like the way it makes my body feel. This one becomes, there's two types of people that this becomes really profound to one is the person. It could be a young person even that's so sedentary. They don't even know how crappy they feel. Yeah, then they start working out getting stronger and they physically feel different in their bodies. Yeah. The other one, which is the more common one is older population. They feel and see this so much and then this becomes so valuable to them because, you know, when you're 60, you've probably had some years of not feeling good or hurting or you've noticed some, some abilities that you're now lacking. You can't necessarily run with your grandkids like you could with your kids or you can't do certain things that you used to. Then you start working out and you're like, Oh my gosh, like I could go up the stairs without huffing and puffing and I'm doing things and I got energy. It's amazing what when you're in a state of pain. Chronic pain, like what that does to your mood and the way that you think and your outlook on everything and to be able to resolve that physically. I think it just opens up this whole new potential for a lot of people. I mean, I would argue that this is everybody over 40. Yeah. I don't mean I don't think I've ever met somebody majority for sure over the age of 40 who doesn't say that the exercise makes me feel better. That's a big motivator for sure. The aesthetics, like you said, we'll get to that. Yeah. Is one and attached to that. But I'd say that most people over 40, it's like, it's what keeps me going for sure. It's like the, the aesthetic side is nice, but the, it's like, if I don't low back pain starts bothering me. My hips start talking. I mean, just, I start feeling all that stuff like that. And so just making sure that I'm training consistently keeps all of that stuff at bay. And I mean, I feel like that's everything as you get older. It is. And if you were to, if we had to like find an actual fountain of youth, which doesn't exist, the closest we could get would be physical fitness. It's, it's so powerful. And I always like to paint this picture of someone who's listening. You know, if I, if I show you a 20 year old that works out when that doesn't, there's a difference between the two for sure. There's a difference in the way they move. There's a difference in their abilities and all that stuff. You give me a 60 year old that's fit versus a six year old that isn't like your typical 60 year old versus a six year old has been working out for a long time. They're not even in the same universe. It's not even, it's, it's like they're two different species. It's so different. It's radically different with their abilities, their energy, their lack of pain. This for me was a big one as a trainer. Cause I, towards the end, as I train lots of medical professionals, they would send me their patients. A lot of their patients were in that age group, the older age group. And when I would show them pain relief, it was like, uh, I'm done. I'm doing this forever. They're a whole new person. I've been, my back has always hurt. It's always been hurt. It's been hurt for years. I thought I just had a bad back and I've been working out with you for two months. And my back doesn't hurt anymore. What is going on here? I'm like, well, it's just, it's literally lack of strength, lack of stability, the right exercises solve your chronic back pain. And it, it totally sold them. Next up is the aesthetic is number four. Yeah. That's just how people look. Now I'll say this, just interesting because that's probably the number one reason why most people show up. That's right. And I think of all the ones that we're going to talk about, because there's a fifth one too, we'll get to, this one's actually the least, the least effective, or least important, uh, because you can only improve upon the way you look for so long and, or so subjective, and you tend to compare yourself to other people. So this one's really sketchy. With where you could go. And if in most people, here's the problem with the one that we're talking about right now. Most people place all the value on how they look and it is not a strong enough motivator or strong enough relationship builder to keep you working out forever by itself. Well, and I think we all have a form of perception drift, right? We talked about this with the, the face lifts and surgeons with that. And anybody who's been working out long enough that's been chasing the aesthetic side would attest to this, which is when you first started, you probably said things like, Oh, if I just look like this or my arms were this size or I weighed this much or I was this body fat and then you get there and what happens? More. Yeah. I need another inch of my arms. I got this part of my body. Yeah. That part of my body. And so it's this never ending, you know, goalposts that you keep, you keep moving. So, uh, I just remind people, the reason why we think people look good when they're fit is because it's actually a signal towards health and vitality. So it's actually a side effect. It was, it's never the main effect. It was never meant to be the main effect of good health and fitness. It was meant to be a signal that points to better health, better mobility, better vitality. Right. Right. Last, and I think this one's playing a bigger role. And I've talked about this on the last couple podcasts. Is this, can we guess this Justin? Well, all the things. Yeah. Cause you're a static. So you did cognitive stuff. Why people keep showing up to their relationships. Yeah. Community. Oh, community. Of course we should get this one's huge. I think the fitness industry missed this one. Uh, but now it's starting to realize how powerful this is. Yeah. Jim's and fitness facilities can do a really good job of attracting people. They figured out how to attract people. They suck at keeping people. This has been a problem in the fitness industry forever. How do we keep people? The gyms that keep people are the ones that have culture and community. Yeah. Real good culture. Nobody leaves. But the question is though, is it really in their best entrance for that? What do you mean? To keep? Yeah. Not if you're charging 20 bucks a year. That's right. Well, even, even at the, say the 150 or higher in, like, uh, I bet you, if you looked at, lifetime fitness or equinox, uh, if every member showed up, they couldn't. Yeah. The fire marshal would call on them too. They, so almost all gyms. Okay. Besides boutique ones that have the limited spots, uh, are actually designed though. We want you to kind of show up, but not really. Well, it'll be that hardcore. Well, what they're doing, Adam, because I've been looking up, I've been looking this up recently because we have trainers and coaches and I have this like always in the back of my mind, I always want to own a gym, even though it's not, I know you're going to get pissed off, but it's not this big money maker. No, I know, but I look at the data on a bar too. And I'm studying the data and you know what these gyms do? These gyms that are like you just said, these really nice gyms that charge a lot. Yeah. They make a lot of money on the community stuff that's in the gym. So you have a membership, but then people spend money on eating lunch there. Yeah. They spend money on the massage. They spend money on the extras, the community stuff. Yeah. The pool where they can hang out with the other people. So it's community. And what's happening is Gen Z, Gen Z is wanting this. And I think it's probably because of lack of connections for younger generations. For sure. I mean, one of the biggest complaints when you talk to a younger person is who is it? I was just talking to someone about this. How hard it is to date and meet people. Social outlets. Yeah, there's just minimal. You know that Gen Z run into people. Gen Z now ranks the gym as the number one place to be social. It makes sense. It replaced bars. It replaced everything. And you also, you have a nice bias by going there. If you go to a bar to find somebody, you don't know what you're getting at. It is. It's a mixed bag. There's probably someone there that's drinking. One thing you know is everyone's there to drink. Yeah, which could be for all the wrong reasons. If you're there too long. Maybe some good reason, but it's like it is definitely a roll of the dice. And you go to the gym. Everybody in there is growth minded. They're trying to in somewhat of an aspect of some aspect of like they want to improve themselves. And that's it. That's a solid better group. That's a solid quality to find. It doesn't mean that you meet the perfect person. But it's, I'd say, would you not argue that one of the major attributes to having a successful marriage is having a partner who is equally focused on growth, of course, minded. Right. I mean, that's, that's listen, what's the one reason why we all liked working in gyms? It was the, it was the culture. Yeah. It's that culture. People are coming in too, and they're choosing to voluntarily self-improve. So I do believe you're right. I mean, the model is going to be these high end 150 to 250 or more, or more small places. And you see how they're incorporating like your peptide and your hormone therapy and cryotherapy and like a lot of these like kind of add on options, work spaces too. Because a lot of people can work remotely and I think having, I mean, I would love, I would love to have the Bay Area doesn't have a good one. They have, they have one that's kind of like that, but it's not that good. It's, it's, it's, uh, I think it's, I think it's the future. Um, and I think it's an important focus that gyms are going to start paying attention to because the fitness industry moved away from that actually started that way. So gyms used to be a very culture dominant. Then it slowly turned into put your headphones on, you're in your own space, do your thing, you like the equipment, cool, get in and get out. You don't talk to anybody. And I think that's a big mistake. Fitness financial care. I don't care. Cause I go into my thing, I leave, but most people, the community, uh, and they're finding this now and the data, like this is what people want. Yeah. So I think the future of gyms, uh, it's, it's already moving in that direction. So I got a crazy study for you. That's really interesting. First off, uh, do you know, so they did, they, there's some studies on aging. Do you know the, the easiest way to predict someone's, uh, like biological, not by biological age and also their, uh, whatever their, their chronological age, but also how, how, how old their DNA is or how much their, their wear and tear is. There's a plate. There's a way you can look at someone. Not just their telomeres. No, no, no. It's their face of all the things on someone you could predict it. If you had to just pick something to look at, it would be their face. Like how, like how stressed are they? How much, how much is their body actually feels a lot? Oh, it does. So they actually did this study where they said they looked at occupations and ranked them from best to worst in terms of how quickly they were aging based off their face. Wild. Yes. Do you know who is the worst? Uh, gotta be things like, uh, surgeons or ER doctors or high stress jobs. Scientists and educators. Oh, okay. Scientists and educators. Yeah, I could see. By the way, the person who posted this is a longevity scientist. He's like, cool, that's my profession. I'm the worst. Then it was professionals. Then it was managers, clerical, sales, service workers, athletes had the best age. Uh, uh, because you're playing your dream sport for a living. And you're also just exercising. Playing. That's interesting. And you're out of your head. And what makes me wonder, I, so I'd love to do Katrina's by, I told you guys off air what had happened. Uh, the other day. So the other day in the gym, she's still floating about it. It's been like two weeks now. Yeah. She's got her, she's got her headphones on in the gym and, um, and they die, but she just leaves them on and there's two ladies. There's a trainer who's training a client like next to her. And they're, and they're talking about her. And, uh, they don't know she can hear and they're, they're like, that's, uh, that's Adam's wife, you know, uh, with mine pump, you know, that is right. And then the other guy's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know this. And she looks over and she's like looking at Katrina. She's like, figures. He would date some girl that's way younger than him. Oh, she's not. No, she's older than me. So I did have a story to set that story straight. By the way, it's kind of like a double, like there's two sides of that. There is. There's like, it's an insult to me. It's like, like saying I'm a shallow person, right? Like, of course he's like some shallow guy that would date like, course, right? So she's all happy about it. But I'm like reading it and going like, you know, it's a bit of an insult to me though, right? It's kind of like saying that I'm shallow or something like, I don't know. But, um, so yeah, I do the story of the day teasing her because, uh, she, her, her stack just came in from a Vita Bella, uh, just sent her stack of all her, yeah, her GAC. And so I was sharing the stuff that she does for her, her routine for her face and stuff like that. Cause she is really good about that. And she'll do her morning cream, her night cream, um, that has the GHKCU, the NAD, I think glutathione and something else in there. There's like an exilic acid or something you might know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what it was. I thought you would know, but that stack. And then she's, she's more consistent than I am. She sits in front of the Juvelite. She right after she gets out, she does. How often is she doing the Juvelite? Every day. So almost every night after, so we like our routine. So this show after she'll do math, a max and, uh, and bathe him and get him ready. So with that, that's when she takes her shower, does her cream stuff, and then she'll sit down right in front of the light right after that. I think she does like 10 or 15 minutes daily. So every, every single night, you know, she might miss a weekend night or something like that when we're doing something. If you use Juve on your face to look younger, you'll notice in a week. One week. It makes a big difference with Courtney too. She does it all the time. Oh, big difference. I mean, I'm in and out of doing it. And I always notice a difference when I get right back in the routine of doing it. Like I would say within three, probably three times of me. I noticed it mainly in underneath her eyes. Like it definitely makes a big difference. Yeah. So I mean, I think, I mean, Katrina's, she's also to the study and to the point you're bringing, I mean, probably one of the most zen people I've ever met in my life. You know, so stress. Oh yeah. Like I don't think I've ever seen her stressed out. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. I work with you. She does not. She does not. I age working. Why does Doug keep getting younger? No, she definitely, she definitely is, uh, I mean, I, I definitely give her a lot of credit for, for checking me on a lot of that stuff. I think she's always the quick first to think of the, the most optimistic way to look at every situation and, and, uh, that between that and her skincare and her jubelite, I think she's hacked into looking younger than me, even though she's older than me. So that's so great. Speaking of attractiveness, they did a study. I don't know why they do studies like this sometimes, but whatever we'll talk about it. So they did a study on men and women and they wanted to see how much, uh, someone's income would affect their attractiveness. For both sexes? For both sexes. Oh, interesting. So I'm more interested in what the guys say about girls. We all know what the other way around is. So they took pictures of women. Okay. And it was just, you just see them. They took pictures of women and put underneath them their salary. Interesting. And then they say, did the same thing with men. Okay. They put a picture. Okay, cool. It's actually, this is actually a cool study. I mean, I guess, if you don't, if you don't know what's going to happen, who do you think responds better to? Well, that's obvious. It's obvious. We, we know that you talked about this, the evolutionary theory, whether whatever, uh, that women that saw the increased salary are going to be more attracted to that guy. And we see this all over in society. It's very obvious. Okay. So that's nuts. What I'm more interested in is did the guys that saw the girls, well, yeah, did they care at all? Or and, and, and did they actually look negatively around the higher income women? Did they become less attractive as they made more money? That would be interesting. Yeah. Actually made almost no effect. Okay. Well, that makes, so how attractive is she? And then, and then boom, you see, she makes more nothing. Yeah. I had almost no, had almost no effect on the guys. So I would think, so if I had to predict, I would have predicted guys to be no effect or maybe slightly negative if it was a lot more than that. Cause I could see that. I've seen situations like that. I've seen, I've seen guys that are intimidated by a girl that is, that makes a lot more money. Here's the question I have. I wonder if it's less about being intimidated because that could very well be the case. I'm just thinking out loud. Yeah. Or it could be more about knowing that you're less attractive to a woman because when they look at data, when women make more than men and their couples, the man, even if he makes a lot of money, he becomes less attractive to her. And the divorce rate actually goes up. So divorce rates higher. Like they're immediately going to think less. Oh yeah. How high is the divorce rate in a such, in a relationship where the woman makes significantly more than that? Well, when the man doesn't work and the woman works, it's a lot higher. So if he's the stay at home and she works, the, the divorce rate goes up. Oh yeah. Okay. So I wonder if it's that like, oh, she might not like me as much. Maybe factor in. Yeah. I wonder. It could also be intimidation. Those are kind of the same thing as describing what you're feeling. Yeah. As you said, it's kind of the same. It's kind of the same thing. But intimidation, intimidation, insecure, however, however you want to, however you want to say it. Okay. What does that say? Oh, that's not good. Read that, Doug. Yeah. Couple where the wife earns more than the husband are generally at a higher risk of divorce. Studies indicating that 33 to 50% more likely to divorce. Doug, look up how odds increase that a woman will cheat when she's the breadwinner. That's another bad one. The rate of infidelity when the wife, I imagine she loses a little bit of respect for him. Respect, attractiveness, maybe whatever. Yeah. Cause isn't that so now lack of respect is similar to contempt, isn't it? Wouldn't they be hand in hand? I think so. So yeah. So if you lose respect for your man, it's like having contempt in unit. Remember when we did the great interview with who was a couple that are like famous for all the cycle? Oh gosh. The number one reason for infidelity or divorce was contempt. And so him not making as much would lead, was more likely to lead to contempt or what does that say, Doug? Well, it actually says that women who are the primary breadwinners are least likely to cheat. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, it's too busy working. Stay at home. Yeah, dad, that's probably well men are way higher, more likely, right? Way more. Yeah, look at the odds. That's way, guys are way more. It's not that big of a difference, I think. I think there's a difference. No, it's way, guys are way higher. Girls are more likely to confide in like another, another man and like be like that. Men are more likely to cheat physically like that. Oh, like cheat emotionally. Yeah. Yeah. She's more likely to have a coworker. She works with that. She shares all her personal stuff. But it's just sleep with them. Do you guys know that if a woman's best friend gets divorced, the odds of her getting divorced go up? Did you guys know that? Yeah, dude. If there's a woman who has a best friend, they're both married, her best friend gets the worst. Like super influenced. Her odds go up. Yeah. I would think a guy's would too though. Because let's not, let's take marriage as a question. I remember in, in when you're a kid, when you were kids, I totally remember like depending on the homey, the homey group, you know what I'm saying? When you're all coupled up, it's all good. You're doing a couple of things and then one or two guys are single and then it's like you're the one guy who's still in a relationship. You're either, oh man, you're gonna hang out with your chick again. You get all the pressure to be single. I used to like you when you were single. You were way more fun when you were single. Well, so anyway, so let's go back to the study. Yeah, I feel like it was like early on stuff. So a woman, women are 1000 times more sensitive to a man's income when evaluating 75% more likely divorce. So what if your best friend, if your best friend divorces, yeah, holy cow, 75%. Wow. That's a big one. That's high social contagion is what they call it. Yeah. So both sides same story. Oh, so it is both sex. Both sex. Both sex. Oh, wow. Well, so, so did you guys hear what I said though about the data? No, no, sorry. Say again, I was women are 1000 times more sensitive to a man's income when evaluating his attractiveness 1000 1000 1000. That's a big number. That's big. Yeah. You can be like a three and you make like a million dollars a year and now you're eight. Now the number of verse, you could put that on its head too with the guys. We probably care a thousand times more about physical. Right. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know about 1000, but definitely more. Yeah. Well, a lot more. I would think. Yeah. If like you would, if they did, I'm sure there's studies on this where they've asked surveys of guys, what's their number one thing. And it's like probably attractiveness is probably top of most people's list for men beauty. Yeah. And girls probably say things like humor and like a lot of other things, but attractiveness is number one. So I bet we're probably up there with that. Yeah. So that makes sense. I know. I find the what machine should I do in the gym to get more girls? Get good at the ATM. So a lot of people, a lot of people hate on that, right? And there's a lot of like, oh, gold digger is there a negative crime, but that is no different. Okay. Then if we were to go back 3000 years and the guy who could kill deer left and right, easy with the best shot and was coming home with deer over his shoulder every single day versus the guy who showed up empty handed or a squirrel. You know what I'm saying? He comes up, he's got some nuts outside. Yeah. Yeah. He's got some nuts and berries in his squirrel. You know what I'm saying? I guarantee those two guys walk into camp. I don't give a shit what's what they look like physically. The women are looking at a dude who's carrying that deer and she's like, I'm hungry. He is attractive as hell because you know why? Because he could feed me and our child. And nobody would hate on that, but because today that the way we show that is the way it is, dude. Well, it's how we show it today though. It's no different, right? No, it's 100%. It's just an example of that. He's proven that he can go out and hunt competent with the best of them. And so it's like, I don't know. I don't know. I think people, I think people judge that too much. I could have been good. You're gonna keep those blueberries. You have to get a deer. You know what I'm saying? Squirrel hungry. Imagine that you get to be that guy carrying the little squirrel. Get out of there and stab something. You're with your buddies. I can't go home, dude. Bro, I killed a squirrel. No way, dude. My wife's been so bad. I got a muskrat in the back. You can borrow him. Here's some fish. I want to hear, Justin, you have, there's a note up here about you getting called out by your boy. Yeah. So over the weekend, I went to my son was competing in Santa Cruz for this regional. He won. Yeah, he won. He got first place. First place, dog. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And he had, I mean, there was like four competitors in his level, but this is a new level for him. Bro, he's really good. Level 10. Yeah. So he's, he's, he has to do like double back flips now. And so he has to get a lot higher in his approach before. And I was talking to Adam earlier about this, like he was stalled, like he was stuck. Like it's, I'm really proud of him for, for being able to break through. And for the minute there, we actually, like, even because the coach that was working on, he's really good coach, but like couldn't, you know, help get past this one thing. Like we, I was like trying all of my speeches with him, you know, of course, like, can you just like, you know, pump them up, like motivate him somehow. I'm like, I've literally done like everything in my playbook. I'm like out. So, and he just would, you know, and he's just kind of bummed because it's, it's outside of school for one. So it's like, he's doing this, putting a lot of work into this, like outside of school, not with his friends and everything. And so it was kind of like, he was feeling a little bit of that depression and like all this kind of stuff. So anyway, we looked at getting him a sports psychologist, which I never would have thought of. But one of his teammates had used one and all of a sudden it like unlocked for them. And so Courtney kind of presented that to me and I was like, Oh, that's interesting. Let me see. And at first I tried to like, you know, look through our Rolodex of people we've interviewed and stuff. And there was like Brett McCabe, I think was one, but and I looked and, you know, he didn't get a hold of him. But there was this one guy who was recommended that was local and started talking to him and did some sessions with him. And it was literally like after that one session with him, he went back to the gym and then all of a sudden, boom, he got it. And he was just like, yeah. And I was like, what did he say? What was it? You know, and it just, I think he just needed to hear it from somebody else of course, and to just get empowered. But anyways, so all that to be said, like my story was nothing to do with any of that. I was outside, I was like walking back to my car with Everett and I was wearing my sweatshirt. And it's a Saniker sweatshirt. And so it's like a skate surf brand, but it's really pretty much like anybody down there wears a Sanikers brand. And so these two kids with skateboards and sunglasses come up to me and they're like, hey, can you do a kickflip? And this guy had like a video and he's like, can you do a kickflip? And I was like, I was like, you guys trying to shame me right now? Is this like some kind of setup? Like, I was like, I'm a total poser. You know, this little bit they're doing, they're trying to like, oh, come on, old man, you know, like no way kickflip. And I was like, why don't you push press 315 you punk. And I was like, oh man, my ego. I was like, I have to check myself and like, you know, like, I was gonna say some some bad things. They were like, maybe, I don't know, 1213 something like that. But I was like, what is this? You know, I think it was like some TikTok setup. Oh, it totally is. That's what that is. These kids do this shit all the time. Well, that would have been a win for them either way. Either you kickflip or you fall. I was so mad because when I left, I was like talking to to to Everett. I was like, dude, I should just be like, yeah, no problem. Get their skateboard and then just take it and bail. I'm gonna go work on it. Or just like stomping on it in half. Wow, man. They're 12, Justin. Listen, that's the that's the bully in me. I thought all these thoughts I didn't do it. Hey, let's be honest, they're trying to set him up. Anyway, yeah, they're trying to make me look bad. I just, you know, yeah, I'm a poser. So did did did Ethan? Did was Ethan happy? He got the coach? He was he was he was really resistant to it. So I didn't say any of that. But like, he was definitely pushing back. And he's like, he had a thought of like what it was. He thought it was like a shrink, you know, and it was like, you know, we're gonna get all into like this emotional scrap. And I don't want to do that, dad. It's not like that. He's a coach, you know, it's a performance thing. Like it's, he's trying to help you overcome an obstacle. Yeah, but your mom, I don't want to do that. We're not going there. Don't worry, pal. So yeah, once we, I don't know, had a few days of like, kind of coaxing him into it, you finally like agreed. And then now he would, he would say he totally totally. Yeah. Oh, that's, and then we just intermittently kind of use, if he has any kind of big, you know, barrier there, like so much as mental, it's just, yeah, just really helps. I know that sports all mental. It's been so long since we did that episode with Brett McCabe. But I remember him talking about some stuff in there that was really interesting that that was not what I thought, like with the stuff that he had to work on with. I mean, you guys, yeah, obviously you guys have experienced this, but I remember when I really fully experienced the mental side of it was, it was my first tournament as an adult in jujitsu, because I did as a kid, but as an adult and in the gym, I felt like I was a machine, like I could go forever. I could go round after round. It felt like I was so good. And then in the tournament, I gassed out so hard in my first match. And I was like, it was all psychological. It was all, because I was too worked up, too anxious. I had similar fact. It was a, it was a big joke amongst my buddies on the team that I was like practice Adam, like in practice, like I dominated blocking shots and deeing up and hitting everything and just, and so I'd get, I get opportunities to play. And then when I get out in the court, like forget to play, freeze up, do all this stuff, like, and just make mistakes, you know? And, you know, that back then it like you, you make those mistakes, you're out next kids in and so you got to be able to perform. And, you know, I didn't know any better at that age to even think about working on the psychological side of that or anything like that. I just keep working harder. And I would do so. I would work so hard in practice that coaches always wanted to give me shots like that. But when I got to, and this is when I got to that bigger school, when I was, for some reason, when I was at a small school, I didn't have that same anxiety and fear. And maybe that's what it was, was because the crowds were smaller. It wasn't as, it was a lower level. So it wasn't quite as competitive. Less on the line maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And so did great. And that was, I tell you, my parents had such a hard time with that because here I come from being like the star athlete in one school and then all of a sudden I'm riding the bench on the other. But I knew better because I knew I'd screw up. Like I knew I was messing up on a play or I wasn't doing something right. And so I get pulled. And so I didn't have any sort of like animosity to coach. It's like, fuck, man, I got it. Why is this happening to me? It's like, in practice, I'm, I'm so good at like, get out here and like mess up, you know, dude, speaking of athletic performance. So you know that, I know you were using the Trollscriptions, Tromeune for sleep. Yeah. By the way, you tracked your deep sleep. Yes. And it has a big effect. Yep. Yep. On deep sleep. Okay. So you know, have you seen their Tromeune? I've seen it. Yeah. The main ingredient is Cordicepin, which comes from the Cordicep supplement. So you know Cordicep? Yes. Okay. So I'm like, why is this, I've used Cordiceps forever. I love Cordiceps. Love it. I love it for athletic performance. You've talked about it increasing stamina in your workouts. Stamina. I can notice my heat tolerance goes up. It's, uh, it's been used for a long time. Um, I remember it became kind of popular because China was, uh, talking about using it. And I remember which Olympic games it was when they were performing so high. But the Tromeune is like another level. Like if I take that before I work out, it's like twice as effective. And then before sleep, I also get the same thing. I have the high, the increase in, um, REM in REM sleep. It also has an effect on immune system. So I looked it up and I'm like, and I compared, I'm like, what is it about? Troscriptions versus just the normal Cordiceps that I would get. Okay. Big difference. You guys. So Cordicep is the, is one of the main active ingredients in Cordiceps. It's what does the stuff that we're talking about. Okay. When you take Cordiceps, typically you'll take capsules and a high dose would be like 3000 milligrams of powdered Cordiceps. Got it. Within 3000 milligrams, you're getting maybe 15 to 20 milligrams of Cordicep. And if you're lucky, if it's like super high quality, oftentimes it's more like two milligrams or five milligrams. Do you guys want to know how much is in a dose of Tromune? How much? 75. Wow. 75 milligrams of Cordicep. So they literally took it, concentrated, super, super concentrated. So like pre-workout, especially if you're going to have like short rest periods or we're going to do high reps or any kind of endurance, you'll notice for sure. And then for sleep, REM, which is crazy because you tracked it and Doug tracked it. You've seen increase. Yeah, I did. I saw it right away. The first time I had one of my best REM sleeps I've had since I've been tracking. So I was like, oh, this is cool. Yeah, super cool. Wow. Speaking of something else that's cool, I sell this app that is got to be one of the most cool fitness apps I've seen in a long time. No affiliation. Have you guys heard of push scroll? Push scroll. Okay. No. It's actually pretty cool. So my buddy Chuck is using it. So you connect it to your, to whatever social media platforms you want to. So you could do YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, whatever you, whatever you want, whatever you use a lot of. Okay. You end up earning time on those by doing exercises, pushups, squats, sit ups, and it'll give you time. So like a pushup is worth two minutes, a squat is worth one minute. And I'm like, well, that's kind of cool. But like, how does it track? Yeah, how's it tracking the camera? So he showed me, he puts it up, it tracks his body movement, and it only count a full squat. It will only count a full pushup. Then it connects to a social media. When he goes on his Instagram, he clicks on it, it's locked, and it says, do you want to use some of your time? You say yes. Then you pull from the time that you earned. And then that's how much time you're on your social media. And then it kicks you off. And so I'm like, I'm like, I told him, I said, is this actually working? And he goes, yes, my total social media time went down by more than half. Because I said, now why is that? I said, number one, you exercise for it was, I don't mind, I like doing like activity. He goes, but what's cool is you when you're picking the time that you want to go on your Instagram, you know, you'll say, I only want to be on for 10 minutes. Usually you have that idea in your mind that I'm only gonna be on for 10 minutes, then it gets you get trapped. Yeah. He's like, but this kicks me off. And I go, actually was wasting time. And I come off, he's broke, cut his social media time by more than half. And he's doing like hundreds of squats and push ups. He's a crossfitter. So but I'm like, can you cheat it? No, no, you got to record you. So he was doing squats. And if it's like a half squat, it won't count. It's like a full. That's pretty cool. It's interesting. It's interesting to see how well that would work. Yeah, I wonder how I mean, I like that they're trying to innovate, you know, solutions for this. I think this is for someone's fitness minded who also wants to get off social media. I mean, I think it's a cool tool for kids. If you have a kid and you're trying to encourage a kid to maybe put a password on it, they can't, oh yeah. I see it more. I see it more valuable for that than like for me, I feel like it would be a nuisance to have to like record every bit of my workout because that's kind of it. Well, it's not every bit of your workouts. Just, oh, I want time. So I'm gonna do body weight squats or I'm gonna do a time I do body weight push ups. So throughout the day, you just earn time. That's how you do it. That's even more ridiculous. I thought it was a cool concept. I like what you said though, Justin, for kids, that would be kind of cool. If you have a kid that's like an active. I said that. Yeah, it's okay. I like how you were thinking it. Probiotics have been shown in studies to improve gut health, digestion, reduce inflammation, reduce the risk of depression and anxiety, and improve athletic performance and recovery from your workouts. But the problem is which probiotic go with seed? These are the world's best probiotic makers. This really works. Take it every night before bed, notice improvements and all the things that I said within typically 30 to 60 days. Go check them out. Go to seed.com forward slash mind pump and use the code 25 mind pump for 25% off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Lindsey from North Carolina. Hi Lindsey. Hi Lindsey. Oh my gosh. This is so crazy to see all of you. Hi. How come? Thank you so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it. I'm going to read from my email if that's okay just because I'm a little nervous and kind of fan struck here. But before asking my question, I wanted to express my deepest gratitude to all of you for everything that you bring to the show. I've been a listener since 2019 and the advice and insight you share has changed the way I look at health, fitness and longevity. I wanted to add that I particularly appreciate the way you communicate respectfully and honestly to women. And I respected and admire your focus on being fathers and the intentionality with which you raise your children. So thank you so much for all that. Thank you. That's nice. I'm a huge fan of the show and I'd love some advice on making a career change to personal training. I'm a trained social worker coming to the end of a long career and child abuse investigation, supervision and administration. I love being a social worker and I care so much about helping children and families, but I've always been passionate about fitness and movement and I'm considering a career change to fitness. I've rebounded from three knee surgeries and I managed chronic Lyme disease. So I feel like I have a pretty empathetic mindset for helping others work through physical struggle. I've also been diagnosed with an eating disorder and I think I can understand the mental hardships of individuals battling insecurity, anxiety, dysmorphia and dysfunctional relationships with diet and exercise. But I have a secure and a pretty stable job that meets all my needs. I'm single. I cover all my expenses, health insurance, retirement, all the things. And I'd like to make a career change and I'd love to hear your perspective on how realistic it would be for an almost 50 year old to enter the field of personal training. I've spent decades working with people and meeting people where they are and helping them to make change, but I'm just not sure and I'm hoping for some insight on how this could transfer to personal training. Yeah, very good question. I think you have everything it takes. You have the right heart for personal training, which is the most important thing. Training, you know, six, seven, eight clients a day, different personalities, different challenges, lots of, you know, failures along the way. If you don't have a deep passion and love for people and wanting to help them, that gets old real fast. So that's the most important thing. It sounds like you've got that. Let's talk about what it would look like to move over to be a personal trainer and, you know, kind of what to expect and what the challenges may be for someone like you. I don't think you'd have a challenge wanting to help people at all. Obviously, that's what you do for a living now. And your background, I think, makes you, you'll do very well with it. The thing that would be maybe a challenge would be the sales aspect of it, because as a trainer, regardless of the environment you're in, big box, which is probably where you would want to start, that'd be a great place to learn everything, or private, which would be much more difficult, but still you'd have to sell. You have to be able to get people to hire you. You're not giving clients. Sometimes in big box gyms, they'll give you some clients, but you, but it is you building your business and promoting and selling. And that's a skill in and of itself. There's also a time period where you're going to have to build your client base. If you go in and you work hard, you know, I would say give yourself a cushion that's like three to six months to build a good client base with, you know, if you, if you apply yourself, you show up, you're there, you're learning by three to six months in a big box gym, you'll do just fine. Cause the opportunities are so plentiful in a big box gym. And then I would stay there and big box gyms will provide you with health insurance and all that stuff. And then I would stay there until you're really doing well, until you're like one of the top trainers. And then from there, you can decide if you want to go private, if you want to work in a correctional exercise environment, which it sounds like maybe you'd be more interested in or something like that or working with a functional medicine practitioner, but it's, but you want to learn in an environment that provides you with lots of opportunity. Like when it comes to leads and potential clients, big box gyms, they're plentiful in smaller studios and private, there's like none. You have to like walk outside the studio and like try to build a business, which can be very difficult. But if you learn it in a big box arena and do well there, then you'll, the odds are better that you've got what it takes to do it in a private environment. I mean, Sal said it really well. And the difference that in how difficult this would, this transition would be, would be solely on the sales aspect. You have everything it takes to be a good coach and going to be a great trainer. It it's the transition from a very good income that's consistent that you've built already to this starting all over. And, you know, does that take two months, six months, eight months a year? Slowly depends on how much you lean into the sales side. If you get good at that and you embrace that, you'll do well and do well fast. The more you resist it or you don't like it or you struggle with it, that is what will extend out that pain. Like how long does it take me to get there? I think no matter what, like you could, you would become a great coach no matter what. I think that we all feel confident with your background that you would really be able to help people. But unfortunately, there's none of these businesses that will just put people in front of you. You have to go be able to get those people. And the big box is the best place to get to, to put the exercise in that, because they will at least give you some clients. Whereas if you did try and start in a small gym or go private, you would, that would solely fall on you to go through that. And that's really hard. That's really hard for a good trainer. A good trainer will, will, will struggle. I've seen many trainers that where they're top guys or girls working for me and then they went off on their own and they really struggled to, to go build their business by themselves. So I can't, I can't stress enough how important that, you know, beginning stage of learning that skill set through a big box is so valuable because they give, they'll give you so many good reps. And so yeah, it really, how much does that, I mean, one of the, just so you know, too, I don't know how familiar you are with the course that we created. So when we created our trainer course, we really looked at the space and said, you know, where's the gap? Like, we weren't trying to compete with NCSF or NASM, a lot of these great national certs that do a good job with biomechanics and nutrition and human physiology. What we saw the massive gap in was building your business. Sales, client communication, building your, scaling your business. And so our course is really heavily weighted in that. So if that's something you want to embark in, I would highly recommend getting in there because that we have a great community and we have this ongoing community. So Ann meets with the trainers and it's within a school community. So you have other trainers that are building their business at the same time. So it's very, very valuable for somebody who's trying to make that transition. And Lindsay, just to encourage you, and, you know, Adam, Justin and myself have worked with and trained a lot of trainers and have helped a lot of trainers become successful. And this is the encouraging part. Okay. Sometimes when people hear sales, they think of it either a particular type of personality or like you're selling products, or you got to have this kind of like, you know, pushy, you got to learn how to overcome objections and that kind of what you're selling is not a product. Really, what it is is how effectively can you communicate to somebody the value in working with someone like you. And you know how much it could really impact somebody. I mean, you take the average person and if they exercise appropriately and improve their eating for them, right, for their body, because it's different from person to person, there isn't, there really isn't a part of the life that won't improve from that. And you know that, right? So it's like, how effectively can I communicate that to Miss Johnson or Mr. Smith, who's in front of me so that they say, you know what? Yeah, I think I'd like to invest, you know, $1,000 or $2,000 in working with Lindsay, because this is so valuable. That's the sales part that we're talking about, because what people see when they look at fitness is they go, oh, I just, okay, just move it. I just got to go move more. Here's a bunch of gems. Oh, you're a trainer. Just show me a few exercises and then I'll be okay. And you're just like every other trainer. So whoever's cheaper, you know, type of deal and my membership is only $30 a month. Why would I spend $2,000 for, you know, 20 sessions of training or something like that? And so the communication aspect, which is sales, is so important with that. But it's not again, like, I've worked with so many trainers with like, I just want to help people. Yeah. I'm not trying to sell anything. Listen, that is what's going to sell them. That's the passion you have to help people is what's going to, you know, you just have to be able to paint that picture for them clearly and use that communication skill to really convey, you know, what you're going to do with them, how their lives going to be different as a result of this. And, you know, after that, it's really just a matter of like, when can we start? So I think that trainers get hung up a lot with, you know, that end result of I have to like get to the point where now they get the credit card out and it's like this friction. But really, you know, you just building up that confidence of how to really convey a crystal clear plan for them is going to be huge. And actually, you probably already know this as a social worker. You'll go work with people and you're, you're trying to get them to change how they live. And a lot of that hinges on how well you can communicate it. And that's sales. And so your client hires you, the sales process isn't done. Every day you train them. It's like, okay, how can I communicate to this person in a way that gets them to make these changes in really effective, impactful, like forever ways. And you've listened to our podcast for probably a little while. That's all we do on the show is I'm trying to communicate ideas in ways that click for people. So that's the part. And just again, I'm just trying to encourage you because anytime I talk to somebody who's really wants to help people, oftentimes when I say sales, they're like, that's not what I want to do. I want to help people. Yeah. No, I thank you so much. I mean, so much. I think, yeah, I've been listening to you for, I started listening right before COVID. Actually, I was coming out of a knee surgery and I had been a runner and I was like, ready to slit my wrist because I couldn't run anymore. And I had actually a then boyfriend who was like, you got to start lifting, you got to start resisting chaining. And I started listening to you guys at the same time. And that completely changed my life. Awesome. And come absolutely changed my life. And I appreciate what you're saying because I think what I've done in social work for so long, like all I've done for 20 years is try to sell people on how to change their life. Yes. That can't say but it's but it's been different things, right? It's been like, variety, better jobs, not in a domestically violent relationship, not being you know, I've been selling different things to people and I'm ready to sell something. Wonderful. It's a little different, right? Like I think I'm just ready to sell something new. That's great. Yeah, yeah, I would say I think Anne should call you she'll talk to you more about yeah, look at our course because I think it would really help you if you decide to move in that direction. Definitely. My advice would be to start in a big box. That's not where you would end up unless you love it and you want to end up wanting to move up and management or whatever. But that'd be the best it's like the best place to learn how to get this going. And then from there, if you're like, oh my gosh, I want to go private or whatever, then the opportunities really open up. But that'll be the are you located in an area where you've got access to big box gyms? Yeah, so I'm in Charlotte, which is which is great. It's a little bit of an issue for me only in that I moved here like 10 months ago to be closer to family and help my parents that are getting to a certain point of life. So I don't I feel like the transition makes me nervous because I'm not super connected in this community like I had been in Philadelphia for 25 years and I knew so many more people and here I just don't you guys know like life is so much about who you know and who you trust and who you can connect with. So that makes me nervous to like putting myself out there in a new career where I don't really have connections in the community yet. But I think it's worth a shot. And my friends, I have the best friend group in the world and they all were like absolutely billion percent you should do this. But several of them were like, you should write it and ask the guys, which means they were like, you should ask guys and see what they say. So I really appreciate your feedback. Yeah, you have you have what it takes to be a great coach and trainer for sure. I think all of us see that and things. And I think the the first baby step before you just switch careers, I think would be to go through the course because what you learn what you're going to learn through the course, you can take that into whatever you do. And then also going through that will really give you if you get excited going through the course, I feel like that's even more confirmation that this is where you should be. If you feel like, oh man, I don't know how much I like this, then that's probably then that's your answer. So I think it's a good way to kind of like, okay, let me dip my foot in this, start moving in this direction because it's definitely going to help you no matter where you go. There's a couple of things too I want to touch on. One, you said community, you go into a big gym. When you walk in there, you get hired. Your goal is to be known in that gym. I want to know everyone. I want to talk with everybody. I want to be the mayor in here. And that can happen actually pretty quickly within a month. If you just make sure to talk to people, introduce yourself, help people out, shake people's hands. Before you know it, you'll know a lot of regulars in there and be kind of unknown in there. So that is a great, it's a very easy way to build a community. It's one of the advantages you have being the new person coming into a gym. A lot of trainers get in their own little bubble of their client book and they're in and out with their clients and they don't, and they don't hang out in the gym. And the advantage a new trainer has is that opportunity to just spend the day and they're saying hi to everybody, helping everybody. And to Sal's point, within a matter of 30 days, you could be the new person, but all of a sudden respected by the gym as the person that helps everybody. And so there's a huge opportunity as a new person coming in to be that person. And then in your, because of your background and you mentioned your age even in there, and I think, and so I want to address that. I don't know if this is what you meant by it, but sometimes people will be like, you know, I'm, you know, 45 or I'm 60. Like, is it okay to start as a trainer? Not only yes, but actually better. Yeah. Okay. The average client, personal training client is not 20. The average personal training client is probably between the ages of 40 and 65. That's on average. They're going to identify more with you than they will to the 25 year old, you know, I would argue that was all of our, I would say my biggest challenge, my first decade was being 20, 20 something, you know, and people looking at me like, how do you know? Wait, wait till you get 30, wait till you get 40, you know, they used to say shit like that to me all the time. And I'm trying to convince them what they need to do. And they're telling me like, you don't even know you're a kid still, right? So I think it works to your favor. You have a lot of life experience and that, and that will, and you will be selling to your age and above. You're not going to be selling to a lot of 25 or 30. And especially to your gender, especially like women, women, you know, in your age group are 100% more likely to want to hire somebody that they feel will get them. Yeah. Like that was a struggle for me as an early trainer, like the 45 year old, you know, mom or whatever. And I'm, you know, 19 year olds, like it took me a second to convince her to train with me. Yeah, you'll do great, Lindsey. Yeah, they think that you don't get it, right? That's right. And they were right. I didn't get it for the most part. So yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll do great. Well, thank you guys so much. You got it. You got it. Thanks for all you do. Really appreciate it. Thanks for calling in. Bye. Yeah, great question. I'm glad she called in because it's good for other people to hear what she has to say. And it gave us an opportunity to talk about, you know, the important aspects of becoming a successful trainer. And it's good for people to hear that. Now, and I'm going to say this, I'm going to be very clear. If you don't have the heart for training, it will be the worst job you've ever done in your life. You'll hate it. If you don't have a heart for helping people, it'll suck. It's a human service business. You will, it will, you will burn out so fast. Yeah, you need to be a fan of you have to have that. You also will too, if you are resistant to the sales part. Yes. If you just won't grow because yeah, I've had, I've had coaches that really love helping people but are so resistant to, to quote a sale, the sale word that they just refuse to try and get good and do those things. And if you have that attitude going into it, you'll also fail. So it's like, it takes, it takes the coach who loves people or has a passion for people and then also is willing to embrace the sales side or likes the sale side to be really, and really that will determine that. That'll determine how quickly she makes this transition is how much she's open and willing to, to get good at the sales part because she has what it takes on the, the empathy and the experience and the helping more challenging things. Yeah, exactly. So she's going to be good with that. It's going to be how much do you embrace this like getting good at the sales aspect of this. And if she does, she'll do really well. Our next caller is Sandy from Utah. Hi, Sandy. How you doing, Sandy? Hello. Hi guys. How you doing? How can we help you? Well, thanks for taking my call. I've been following Mind Pump for several years. And here's my question. I'm a 73 year old retired home health and hospice nurse. I lead a pretty busy lifestyle. In a recent podcast, you talked about the Goldilocks phase. And I think that's where I'm at. Since 2019, I've dropped 30 pounds using a reverse diet a couple of times. I've held my current weight now for about three years. I get 10,000 steps in a day, most days. I live three times a week from my home gym with one of my sons who's a trainer using FaceTime. My diet is protein centric. And I typically get 150 to 170 grams of protein a day with 60 to 80 grams of fat and 125 grams of carb. I try to stay between 1500 and 1800 calories a day. I eat mostly whole food with an occasional splurge of ice cream. I am 73. My fitness goal is to stay mobile and to have energy to keep up with the grandkids and to stay as independent as possible for as long as possible. My question is, what's a normal body fat for a 73 year old? My last steps to scan, how's my body fat at 31%? My biometric scale that I weigh on is consistent with that number. My muscle mass is around 120 pounds. With my 30 pound weight loss, I did lose a couple of pounds of muscle mass. My son measured me with his calipers, but the reference chart doesn't include my age group. For the most of my adult life, I was six-fund, nine, five, ten, and my current weight is around 175 to 180. My lab works great. My cholesterol is 152. My triglyceride HDL ratio is 1.03. I'm only on thyroid replacement medicine. I take vitamin zinc magnesium. I started the seed probiotics. I like it a lot. I add collagen and 10 grams of creatine to my coffee every day. I did start on hormone replacement last year. My sleep is six to seven hours a day. With the progesterone, my deep sleep has greatly improved. I'm grateful for my health. I do have a 30 year history of multiple sclerosis, but other than my downhill balance and heat intolerance, I have no other symptoms. I just need to know if my body fat percentage is something I need to address or not. I wanted your thoughts. You're kicking ass. You were kicking ass. You said you had good blood work. You're active. I'm assuming there's not many limitations if you're exercising. You could do things like lunges and rows and crunches and stuff like that. You've got decent- I do all of that. I had a total shoulder done last year, so I don't take the bar over my head right now, but I do dumbbell all the rest with dumbbells. At the best predictor for your health, for someone like you with strength, and a grip strength test is actually an easy way to do this. Average grip strength for a woman your age is something like 43 pounds. Yours is probably much higher. Now that's just a proxy for overall body strength. There's nothing special about grip strength. It's just an easy way to test and reference overall body strength, which you're kicking butt because of all the strength training that you're doing. A grip strength measure, a dynamometer, is really inexpensive. You can get one on Amazon. If you just want to see for yourself, you just squeeze it with your dominant hand and see where your number is and reference it to your age. I would imagine a good 15 pounds over that because of all your strength training. You've had bone density testing done? I did. Last bone scan was a couple years ago and it was fun. Yeah. You're doing great. Body fat percentage is great. What you don't want, yeah. Body fat percentage, obviously it's too high, starts to get associated with poor health outcomes, but when someone's fit at higher body fat percentages, it's actually very different. Now your body fat percentage isn't that high. In fact, for someone your age, it's probably better to be in the high 20s, low 30s. I would not want you to be below 25. 25 to 30 is like, oh yeah, in a great place. Yeah. You're actually going to do better even staying around 30, 31 than you would around like 24. Agreed. It actually protects you if you get injured or sick and you need some of those reserves, but because you're strong and you're exercising and you're taking your steps and your lipids look good, you're kicking butt. Yeah. The only bit of advice I have for you, aside from just keep doing what you're doing, is try to increase calories and strength. So, you know, like you, it sounds like you've done a few reversed diets. Like I like doing that with you where we try and bump calories to 300 calories. Let's really push the weights this week. Let's try and see if we can increase the weights in some of your exercises. So really try and improve the strength and keep creeping the calories up. And if we can do that while kind of maintaining your weight in body fat percentage where it's at, we're winning and you're continuing to win. Yeah. But what you're doing is phenomenal. Yeah. How long have you been training via FaceTime with your son? Oh my goodness. Well, we moved to Utah about five years ago. It was in person at his gym in our home in Central California. So we just worked it out where I do FaceTime. You know, it's, I always tease them. I have to change my weights and do my own stuff. But how long did you train in person with him for? Oh gosh. 2009 I hired him. He's a, he's a bonus kid. I hired him because at 59, I did two marathons back to back and I trained, I just hired him to train me. And so I did that with my oldest son, back to back marathons. And I've kept, I've kept the trainer and now he's a part of the family. He and his family. You're good. You're doing, because I was going to say maybe having some in-person training, but you did it for a while with him in person. So now FaceTime is perfectly fine. And then again, if you ever have... He does this, he does a strongman every year a week, go back for a strongman competition at his gym and I work out with him there. So I do about every six months or so work out with him. You're doing so good. Do you take creatine? Thank you. I do. In fact, yesterday I was stuck in an airport for six hours on a delay. So I listened to five of your podcasts to catch up and I had that new creatine company that you're touting has capsules. So I'm ordering those today and I'm going to bump it up to 20. Oh yeah. Awesome. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. I mean, you're doing really, really well. And if you ever have a question about stuff like this, just a good reminder that I like to tell people like you who've been doing this for a while is look around and look at your peers. And you know this, I don't need to tell you this, but I'll just say this. If I put you around 50 other 73-year-old women, there's a big difference between you and them with mobility, with energy, with the things that you could do. And that's a nice indicator of how well you're doing. Yeah. I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful. You're doing all the things. You're doing incredible. Great job. Yeah. Yeah. I love the kudos. Thank you so much. Yeah. Don't worry about your body fat percentage. Yeah. You're in great range. Yeah. You're a great place. All right. Awesome. I'll take it from the experts. Thank you. You got it. Yeah. So, you know, what's interesting about this, I don't even know if we've really ever talked about this. So we'll say, you know, if you're fit and healthy as a woman, generally you'll see your body fat percentage be around low to mid-ish 20%. But as you get older, you actually, if you're fit, right, if you're fit and strong, you're actually better with a little bit higher body fat percentage. Well, you know, you have talked about this indirectly many times. You've talked many times about studies that show you're better off having a higher body fat percentage and being strong than you are being lower body fat percentage and weak. Yeah. And so in this case, she's obviously strong. She's taking 10,000 steps. She's weight training three days a week. Very active. So she's a very active, strong 73 year old. And so I would rather her be at a higher body fat percentage and capable of all those, those feats, then go, Hey, let's try and get you down to 25%. Cut her calories, do something like that. And in, in, in, in every, her energy, her strength would come down. You take somebody from 1800 calories down to 14, 1300 calories to lose body fat percentage and she's going to lose muscle and strength along the way. Right. And also it's not worth it. And it's really what you have to consider as you get older is resilience. Because what you see in the data, is an older person gets sick or hurt. Noxious. Their health declines very rapidly. So let's say you're a 73 year old woman, you're fit, you work out, you run, you go to the gym all the time, you're at 19% body fat. And then let's just say you fall, you're running and you fall. It's a total accident. You break your leg. You don't have much body fat to run off of. You're in the hospital for a while. You're actually going to do worse than if you had 30% body fat. It's true for men as well. So a little bit higher with fitness is better. Which is why too, the only advice I have for her if she were to do anything is bump calories. Yeah, her calories are a bit low. Yeah, bump calories and try and continue to get stronger. That's right. That's the, otherwise, keep on going. Like what you're doing is great. Our next caller is Maggie from British Columbia. What's happening, Maggie? Hey guys. Wow. Thank you so much for having me. It's so lovely to meet you all. Yeah, same. How can we help you? Yeah. Well, before I begin, I just want to say, hey, thanks guys so much for everything that you do. I'm a nurse who also works in academia and I think that preventative medicine is just so, so important. And so I just really appreciate everything that you guys do. And I love how you guys are always backed up by evidence and by research. So just keep doing what you're doing. Thank you. Thank you. So before I jump into my question, like so many callers previously, I'll give you a little backstory just to give you some context into my question. So I'm a 38 year old perimenopausal woman. And so of course, growing up in the 90s and early 2000s, you know, was in that culture of heavy cardio and low calorie intake. And that was very much drilled into my head for weight loss. And so, you know, yes, it worked, but it didn't last a very long time. And so I found that basically throughout my life, I was yo-yo dieting. And so fast forward about six years ago, my body went through lots of changes when I had my daughter. About a year after that, my husband and I tried for a second child and we ended up needing to do about two years worth of fertility treatment. Unfortunately, in about February 2024, we had our eighth and final loss and just decided to move ahead with our family of three. And with consultation for my physician just took about a year to kind of have my body recover, try and kind of get back to normalcy. So of course, you know, went back to low calorie intake, went back to cardio, went back to eating healthy as I normally did. But of course, that year came up and nothing nothing seemed to change. So I was really tired. I had a lot of abdominal fat, wasn't sleeping, just wasn't making any gains at all. I'm sure that you know where this is going. So went back to my doctor. Of course, my hormones were totally all over the place. But I did go on HRT back in September 2025. And it was totally life changing. I mean, like Dr. Lauren Fitzgerald, who you guys had on said, I no longer wanted to throw punch my husband. I, you know, it turns out that I actually do really like him. It didn't want to divorce him every month. And with sleeping again was like seeing changes in my body in terms of, you know, my abdominal fat was getting, was I was losing that all of those kinds of things. And then found your podcast January of this year and started to kind of solely do weight training and the reverse dieting, which I will be honest, it's say that it definitely took me mentally a while to kind of, you know, put get my brain used to that and kind of what was just so deeply ingrained in me growing up. But I'm definitely seeing the process and trusting the process and I'm seeing some changes. You know, I'm lifting heavier, my clothes are fitting looser, people are commenting on like my weight loss, even though I haven't actually, you know, lost weight essentially, but I'm, my body composition is definitely changing. But so here comes my question. I'm really proud of the progress that I've made with my body composition. And I definitely want to keep going with that. But I do really miss running. I have always been a runner. I did a half marathon last year. I'm hoping to do another one this June. And I do find that like it's my happy place. It's where, you know, I'm meditating, I'm kind of connecting with the higher power that I believe in. But my question is like, is it possible to have, you know, your number one goal as your kind of aesthetic and strength while sort of having, you know, your number two goal is training for a half marathon. And if so, how, how could I best do that? That's a good question. Seasons. Now there's a lot to unpack here. So, so tell me about the mental health benefits you get from, explain that to me. What do you, what are you feeling from that, that, where you're getting value? So, I mean, I definitely get it from strength training too. Like I definitely, you know, after I'm done my strength training, especially where I'm like hitting harder and, you know, pushing more, like I definitely kind of walk away being like, yeah, this was awesome. But it's just different with running. I do find that I get that kind of runner's high that people talk about. Again, like I said, I run outside. So just kind of connecting with the earth. You know, it is where I kind of do my meditation and, you know, I talk to spirit and stuff like that. So I, I definitely really enjoy that. Yeah, so I would say those were kind of, those are kind of the two things. It's, again, it's not that I don't get it from strength training, but I find that I, I really get it more from running. Okay, I have, so I have a couple more questions. Would you say that you're kind of like a go getter, go, go, go, mind kind of racing, you know, your mentality is like, if I want something, I'll get it. I'll work hard towards it. Is that like, okay. Yeah, totally. Which is why, like, again, the like increased calories and the taking breaks has been really challenging for me. I can do it, but I, it's definitely something that I've had to wrap my brain around for sure. All right. Tell me if this resonates. Okay. I think the value that you're getting, the mental value that you're getting from running is that it gets you out of your head. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, which is by the way, not a bad value. It's a great value. The problem is with someone like you in the background that you're giving me, running for someone like you is a very slippery slope. There's nothing wrong with running, but it very easy. I'm going to, I'm going to, again, this is an educated guess. Here's a slippery slope. So you love running instantly. You default to marathon. Yeah. I mean, what, I mean, we can do some running for meditative. We don't have to go straight on to marathon. Like there's a, there's a, there's some middle ground here. That's, that's, that's the slippery slope right there. That's what I mean. Yeah. Is that your tendency is to, is it turn it into something that is no longer really healthy? So what I would say to you, my advice for someone like you would be like, okay, this hiking provide that the nature you're outside. It's way better for your body at this moment. Cause at this moment, what it sounds like we've dealt with is a over accumulation of overall stress. Okay. Yeah. For sure. And so we're looking at like healing the body, building muscle, or the process of building muscle really works well with that. Now that doesn't mean you can't overdo that too. Cause you definitely can. But if you're not getting stronger, it's an easy sign to be like, okay, I'm overdoing it. Right. So it's a nice signal. So, you know, my advice to someone like you is if, if it's, if it's really about the mental benefit and you're like, look, that's what I really want. I want that get out of my head space type of thing. I think hiking or walking with music would, would potentially provide that. And so I would say move towards that and then focus on the strength training and build the muscle and get the hormone. I know you're on HRT and HRT is amazing, but the one downfall of HRT is it can kind of band aid over things because no matter what your hormones are balanced. So no matter how much you beat yourself up, my estrogen, progesterone, testosterone at these levels. So I'll see this with men too. They go on TRT and they'll immediately start immediately start over-training themselves because their testosterone stays high and so the signal is harder to read. So I would say focus on the strength training, not a ton. I would have you do like two days a week full body or maps 15, which is like a couple lifts a day. And then I'd do the hiking and then I'd focus on feeding and fueling your body. And what that's going to do is it's going to give you what you're looking for, which is that improvement in quality of life and the side effect of which being this body composition, continuing change of body composition. Now the challenge for you is going to be to not scale, scale, scale and push, push, push. Because that's your kind of MO. So that's going to be the challenge that you're going to have to kind of work with as you go through this process. But I'm going to tell you on the other end of this, on the other side of this Maggie, what it's going to feel like if you're able to do this is you're going to, you're going to more and more, you're going to have this realization that, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm looking the way I am and I feel the way I am. And I feel like I'm not even trying that hard because the context for you is trying really hard. Totally. And I think that that's kind of where I got to at the end, right? Is just being like, this isn't sustainable, this is not, I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. I've done this for 25 years. I don't want to keep doing this. My goal is just to be healthy and happy with my body for the rest of my life. And I mean, I'm like so grateful. My body's been through a lot and it's done a lot for me. And I just, you know, I want to keep it strong and again sustained. So hold that thought right there too. So say that and then also like understand that marathon running doesn't fit with that narrative. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Like that, and that's why when I first set up, I'm like, yeah, that could be a seasonal thing or a goal that we do eventually do, but it doesn't fit the narrative that you just said right there. It's something that you want to maintain and do for the rest of your life. You can't be running marathons the rest of your life every single, you know, three to six months. At least right now, any competition, any physical competition is not a good idea. Because that's just going to, that's just going to push your button, the one that you love to push, which so I would just not compete. I wouldn't compete. Like if you really like running that much in it, it's like, look, I don't get this from hiking. There's nothing wrong with like cruising a mile a day. You just go outside and do a mile run and you do it at this nice pace and you just get out of your head rather than like, I got to push this run type of deal. And then you strength train and you continue to fuel and feed your body and watch what happens. Or restorative mobility and like, you know, some yoga practice, something where it's like, you know, you're directed to move, but maybe it gets you out of your head a bit. Totally. I'll tell you what, by the way, you're, I mean, you know, nurse, you're a nurse, right? Nurse practitioner. Yeah. Registered nurse, but I also teach at the university. Yeah, dude, you're like so like, this is like an avatar. I've worked with a lot of women like you. And you're like my wife, when you know what hits the fan, like I want Maggie, but the, you know what is not hitting the fan all the time. So we have to figure out how to do things in a way that aren't just breaking you down. You live in such a great place too. British Columbia is beautiful and there's, you know, I mean, it's such a great place to be outside and hike. And so I love that as a goal for you. Have you ever considered, go take long hikes? Have you ever considered working with a coach to have someone kind of guide you through this? Yes, I have. I've chatted with a woman locally and she actually works with a team. I haven't pulled the plug on it yet, but it's something I kind of haven't been thinking about yet. Okay. So we have coaches and if you, if working virtually with a coach is something that you might be interested in, I can have someone call you. I know our coaches are good and I know they'll coach you properly. A good coach is so valuable. Bad ones are terrible, but a good coach is really, really valuable. And so I could have someone call you and you can kind of talk about it and see what that would look like for someone like you. Because I think you would thrive with guidance. Yes. I think with guidance, you would really crush somebody in your life. Awesome. Okay. Yeah, I would love that. Thank you so much. All right. Perfect. Perfect. We'll have someone reach out to you. Thanks. Kill it. Doing great. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. You got it. Yeah. That's such an avatar. Oh, I mean, you did so great of like asking her, you know, what are the reasons for all this stuff like that? Knowing, knowing where she's going to go. And it's like, uh, yeah, I mean, she, she goes from the, I want it for the meditative reasons to like marathon. Well, let's, let's hold on here. Right to the throat. Yeah. I was going to say, we could, uh, we could, we could do a nice jog outside or a hike outside and get a lot of those benefits. We don't have to go straight to a marathon. You know what the problem is too, for, for people like Maggie, and this is true for men too, is she's 38 now, right? Her methods worked really well for a while. Yeah. For a while, she was like grind, go, crush, push through and get there. And then it just adds up. It adds up. And then after a year, suddenly you're like, this isn't working. I feel terrible. Okay. So let me, let me add to that too. So for the listener and also Maggie, who might listen to this, the worst thing that could happen is that she does the marathon and sees some sort of positive change physically. That is the worst thing that could happen. She signs up for her marathon, that she's told herself, I do this for meditative reasons. Oh, and I got leaner. Just reinforces. Yeah. Oh, I got a little leaner or I look a little bit better than what I did. You were commenting. And oh yeah. And then now all of a sudden it becomes that, but the truth is that wouldn't happen. She would do the marathon and her body would start pushing back. Yeah. Yeah. Most likely to push speak to her. But that, that, and so that's probably what would happen though at, you know, 28 and 32 is that she would do something like that. And then it would reinforce this. I love this thing. I love this, you know, because it also gave a little bit of that. And so, yeah, no, the worst case that, and again, that's why I say that because maybe there's somebody who's in their early 30s that's listening to this and this is their method. I know a little, by the way, one of my closest friends, wife's is a nurse. Her method of getting in shape has always been the marathon runs and like that. And now where she's approaching 40 and it's such a different battle right now, you know, but that was how she'd get in shape is I just signed up for my, and by the way, if you're in your twenties and you're like, Oh cool, I can do that and get in shape. There's still a better, faster way. It's in spite of the crappy way you're approaching is your body's getting shape. But there's a much better, faster way to do it. Our next caller is Nikki from Ontario. Hey, Nikki, good to see you again. Hey, gotcha. Hopefully this time we don't lose connection. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. All right. Let's go. Let's go on, man. Let's start over. So tell us what's should I start over? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I'm going to go short because I really like, I need you guys to just talk. I need to hear you guys. Okay. So history of it's hard because I was the only guy in an in treatment program for anorexia for in the early 2000s, stayed there about three years outpatient. Growing up, I was really big. I know you guys hear that all the time, but it was true. It was a, you know, chubby Italian guy. My mom fed me everything. And then so I started doing training. I think I was doing it all wrong. I fell into the beach body programs. And then I was now the last few years I was following other people, you know, the whole RP scandal and everything like that. So I was looking for some of the trust. I stumbled onto you guys and it was honestly like, I know you guys hear it all the time, but you guys are amazing. Like honestly, like you guys are so good. Like, thanks, man. Like altering you for you actually with Doug. I love how you roast him in both Google. I can't help it. Thanks. Thank you. So here I work as a tech. I'm a work at BMW. So I'm on my feet. I am I libido is crazy down. Like I feel like garbage. I like I'm, I'm not trying to lose weight, but I like I was trying keto and then now trying to get carbs back. Like I listened to you guys and you guys are talking about whole foods and even from like potatoes and rice. And I'm like, I don't know. I just want to hear you say it like that it actually works. And also with training, like I was doing every day and I'm at the gym and I'm not getting stronger. I know that. But I'm watching other people do it and you guys are preaching the three days a week, four days a week. Like I looked at anabolic because I was like, Hey, that looks pretty good. I need an actual structured program. And what I know in the off, there's what do I do in the three other days? I know you have the functional one, but is it also, can I really just take a day off or to do nothing? Like I have a kid. I'm about, I think I'm, I weighed myself. So I'm 165, 55. I tried, I try not to track my macros. I mean, except protein, but I'm pretty low. And it's, it's just, it's just hard. It's hard. I know you guys tell all the time you guys hear all the calls because they listen to you guys so much about like people trying to get their stuff in and they can't and you just got to do it. And like, I just need to hear you say that really like, honestly, like an anabolic or thing actually works, like it changes people. You reduce the volume, it goes up because I go to the gym, I see these guys and they're there all the time. And like, why are they, why are they so successful? Why am I not successful when they're there every day pumping and doing whatever they're doing? I hear you, Nikki. I hear you. Yeah, let me. No, no, no, no, no. Listen, I think you beat yourself up enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me ask you a question. You're out. You're saying I want to know if it works. Would you define that? What do you mean? What would be works? What would be successful for you? Okay. So I wrote some notes down, like you guys preached the reverse time when I say preach, I don't mean in a bad way. You guys talk about the reverse diet and then and then you say you just stop, you figure out when to stop. Like if I, I would, you guys referred me to a coach, but I just can't afford it. Like I was speaking to Rob and it's just, I'm sorry, like I appreciate it, but it was just, it was out of my range. I got you. She ran out. No, I understand. So how do you know when to stop and like working in the sense that you feel good and you're, you're getting stronger and you're, but obviously you're not getting fatter. Okay. I understand you're saying you're going to get a little bit, but I'm not talking about like blow, not not blow, but like, you know, like I want to maintain, I don't know, like I, I guess 34, 33, you know what I mean? Like I don't want to, but I want to feel better. You okay. So what works to define works for you is feel better. I guess. Yeah. Like I want my libido back. I want my testosterone back. Like I want, I want, I want to have a kid. We're trying and I can't. Okay. Would you say that that means being healthy? Yes. Improve your health. Okay. Okay. So let's start here. Do you think you're somebody that is worthy of being taken care of? I asked myself. Well, you got to have the answer, Nicky. Yeah, you got it. You got to say yes. It has to be a hell. Yes. You got to say yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. That's a good place to start. You definitely need to outsource all this control, dude, because I'm telling you, I can tell right now, if I tell you, whatever I tell you to do, it's good. You're going to turn it into a control thing. And yeah. And so I think you need to outsource it to a coach. I know you talked to one of our coaches. We are pricey because we're good. I'm going to give you some free coaching. I'm going to give you a few months with one of our coaches, because I think you need to outsource this and work with somebody. Yeah. And have somebody work with you through this process. And what I mean by that, Nicky, is this is all you got to do. All you got to do is say to yourself, I'm worthy of someone I am worth taking care of. I got a kid, I got a wife. I am, I am valuable. I'm worth taking care of. So I'm just going to listen to what this coach is saying, even though it doesn't feel right, even though maybe they're telling me to eat too much food, because it feels like that to me, even though they're telling me to work out two days a week and I want to go work out every single day. I know I don't take care of myself very well. I know my history. I can't trust myself. I got to trust somebody else. So I'm just going to follow what they say. And I think a few months of that should give you a better perspective on what this kind of looks like. Is that all right? Okay. And then all the questions you have, they'll answer, but they're going to walk you through the steps. Because, yes, reverse diets, probably what you're going to have to do. Definitely you'll get better results, strength training less than every single day, for sure. But we got to get you in a different space around this. You need more than just the blueprint. That's right. You need more than, we could sit here and lay out the blueprint of what it is, but you need more than that, Nicky. And we knew that the first time that we talked to you and that hasn't changed. And it's literally what you need to do right now with a place that you're at. If you want to be successful at this, you have to outsource. And pay attention to your energy, libido, and strength. Don't look at the mirror. Don't look at the scale. Don't worry about your, you know, if you think things are fitting tighter or looser, focus on those other things. And then you'll start to define your success by your actual health, not by the things that maybe you defined it by before, which, you know, can lead us towards a dark path. Does that make sense? It does. Now, if I could just ask a question about that. Yes. Like, so you're, okay, if I don't look at the mirror, which I'm trying not to now, because I am trying to kind of eat more, um, how do you, how are you guys as coaches? Strength and it's kind of stopped me. Strength. No, no, no, no. Strength. We're watching strength. We don't need, listen, you're not gonna, Nicky, you're not gonna, you're not gonna gain 100 pounds of body. Yeah, they're not gonna put you, they're not gonna put you on a 500 to a thousand calories more every single day. It's going to be small incremental bumps that we know the math, we know the science of that. You could over, you could overeat 250 calories a day, every single day for the next month, and you won't put on a pound to two pounds of body fat. Nicky, how long you listen, how long you've been listening to Mind Pump? It's about maybe five months now. Five months? Okay. Be honest with me. Do you trust me? Listen, but you're like, it's about like two episodes a day. So, okay. Do you trust us? They're pretty much, you trust us? You have no idea how much I love you guys. Like, oh my god. Okay, listen, you're, you're, you're gonna just have to trust your coach. Yeah. Trust us that we hire coaches who are good and that we watch them and that we know what they're doing. Trust that. Cause that's the only thing that's going to carry you through the first month or two. Cause the first month or two, you're gonna be telling yourself this, I gotta do this. I don't know. What if I get too much fat? What if I this? Just trust, trust, trust. Now, now there'll be a point where you're not going to have, I'm not going to have to ask you that anymore because then you'll start to see, oh my gosh, this is working. But in the beginning, you're just going to have to trust our coach. Yeah. It's going to be tough. And you got to give it a little bit of time because you've, you've beat yourself up pretty bad for a while. And so the body doesn't just all of a sudden, you know, week one, we do this all of a sudden you're, oh my God, this is amazing. I see everything already. It's like, trust the process, trust the process, but on the end, it's going to be hard. But on the other side of that, Nikki, oh my God, it's so freeing and you're going to feel amazing. We're going to fix this dude. We're in your corner, man. Labito is going to be up. You've talked, you talked about that. And I'm like, I want to be that guy. Like I want to, you will, I want to, you, I want to cope. You know, I want to be that guy that calls back and like, you know, worked and you will be that guy. But the thing that Sal asked you is so important. You have to believe you deserve it first. You have to believe you deserve it first. And then when you believe that, and then you outsource it, you trust me, which we're going to take care of for you. You literally just got to follow the steps and do and stick to it. And then you will be that guy. We're going to have a coach call you. You get three months for free with a mind pump coach. And then I'm going to have you back on the phone here. That's right. And we'll talk to you again in three months. Follow up. Can I just have one nutrition question? Yeah. Yeah. Talk about whole foods like, like carbs. Now is oats in that category? Like, let's say if you want to have, like make like a protein, uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. I hear you guys talk about potatoes and rice a lot, but what about? I was just curious. Oats are fine. Yeah. Oats are fine. It's just because they're easily digestible. Yeah. Some people have issues digesting oats, but usually they're pretty good. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You're good, dude. You're good, bro. This can be good. I'm going to see you in 90 days, Nikki. We'll take care of the rest. Okay. And 90 day. And listen, in between the 90 days, if you want to see me, tell your coach, I want to get Sal on here with me for one session and I'll pop in. Thank you. All right. All right, Nikki. We'll see you. We'll see you soon. Yeah. All right. Take care. Take care, buddy. All the best. Yeah. You can just hear the, the, the, the, desperation, the fear and, um, Well, that's how we sent him out of here. Yeah. And look, uh, coaching is a big investment. It's worth it, but it is a big investment, but I want to see this guy do well. And I think he will. I don't think it'll happen without a coach though. No, it won't. Are you kidding me? I mean, uh, he will hesitated to say that he believes he deserves it. Yeah. I know. If you don't believe you, there's no way you're doing it by yourself. I mean, there's, I mean, it's still going to be challenging with a coach. If you, as heck with a coach, if you have possible without one, exactly. If you have that mindset already where you're, you're unsure if you even deserved to be taking care of, uh, the thought that you are going to do that on your own is, is crazy. And the, the, just having a coach is going to be hard. It's going to be difficult. And so hopefully, uh, he trusts the coach. Hopefully that, uh, we got the best, we got the best coaches. Yeah. No, I feel confident if he sticks with it, if he sticks with it, he's going to be okay. And he, walks the difference of the sound in his voice in three months. Oh yeah. I'll know as soon as he gets forward to that. I'll know as soon as he gets on. Yep. I don't have to see him. I don't need to know the metric. I'll know by his voice when he gets on. That's right. That's right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's mine, put media. Thank you for listening to mine pump. 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