Hospitality Series Pt. 3: Simon Kim on Breaking Steakhouse Rules, Redefining Fried Chicken, and Going Global!!

This week on The Chef's Cut is part three of our three-part series on hospitality. And this week, we have Simon Kim, who for the past 10 years has risen to the top with his iconic restaurant empire that includes Pope Korean steakhouse and cocoa doc. On this episode, we're asking Simon about reinventing the steakhouse. Koreans always had Korean barbecue, but how about we actually created something that is a little more developed? He's going to come clean about going through tough times before reaching the top. Everyone thought that I was rolling pretty nice, but little did they know, I genuinely had less than a couple hundred dollars in my checking account. And he tells us about his worst customer experience. They said, but can a white person open this bottle of wine? And I think that, like, hit me really hard. Don't forget to leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. Let's bring in Simon Kim. Simon, you definitely ushered in a new wave of steakhouse modernizing that concept. But how did you know it seems so obvious now that Korean barbecue, American steakhouse, that that would be a home run? But were you so sure when you started off that that was going to resonate with guests? I mean, I wanted to do this regardless of what was happening on the of the moment, right? I've been working on this concept for about nine years before launching. And I wanted to open this at least five years earlier than when I opened it, right? So while I really got lucky, right? I would have opened this no matter what or when the when the time was. It didn't really matter to me because I had a conviction to open up a Korean barbecue restaurant. But we follow the footsteps of like European cousins. You know, we had there has a Italians had to that area in Australia. And then they have developed version, which is the restaurant. Frenchers have bistros and more developed brezzery. Koreans always had Korean barbecue. But how about we actually created something that is a little more developed, still have the essence of like conviviality of a Korean barbecue, but like wine list, a proper cocktail, martinis and old fashioned and, you know, and ambience. And and I had a conviction that this would work. But when we opened the headwind was extremely strong, right? Number one, Korean barbecue is where you go after your shift. Chef, you you take your guys, you know, drink some beer and like throw it down a K town. That was the essence. That's why you go to Korean barbecue restaurant. So when I was pitching that I wanted to refine version of it, they're like, bro, like that's almost saying like this casual thing. It's oxymoron. So it was really difficult to fundraise. But there's another giant headwind, you know, like right now the steakhouse genre be blew up, right? Every single like hottest restaurant in the city is a steakhouse now. But back in 2017, all the old school sparks and like these old school steakhouse were struggling because the millennials were not eating red meat for environmental reasons, blah, blah, blah. So there was an actual trend that red meat consumption was going way down. A steak is of the past, not of the future. And Korean barbecue is of casual refinement, whereas we did completely opposite of where the trend was. So it was a lot of doubts and a lot of headwinds and questions. But I always had a conviction, you know, I thought this would work. And I was obviously biased. And but but the conviction was real. So it yeah, I think it's one of those things, you know, I feel like in restaurants, especially, you know, hindsight's always 20, 20, like, you know, when, you know, Coke burst out of the seat and, you know, I actually, I spent two years cooking Korean barbecue in Chicago. No way. I had no idea. Yeah, I was a sous chef for Bill Kim and his Korean barbecue restaurant. And I remember when code opened, I was like, Oh, that's how we should have done it. Like this is brilliant. It's perfect. You know what I mean? It made so much sense. But it was like, you know, I think like that's the great restaurateurs you're able to see. And I think it's like you know, the invisible, right? And I think code is the invisible. You know what I mean? It was the thing that was so obvious, but nobody could see it. Nobody could see like this has all the through lines that it makes perfect sense that, you know, I mean, everybody would want this because people love Korean barbecue, people love steakhouses. So if you gave them everything they loved about steakhouse and everything they loved about Korean barbecue and put it together, it's like, of course, that's a whole rod, but it's like nobody could see it. So for you, it's like, you know, when you talk about, you know, uh, coat, you're like, I knew it, right? And the clarity of vision and like, is that how when you're looking at new projects, like that's the way you got to feel. Is it like very kind of like gut for you where you're like, if it's something I can't get out of my head, I need to keep walking down this road or is it more mathematical, analytical than that? Hmm. Definitely the intuition, right? Definitely the intuition. But Joe, what you just said is so resonate so strongly with me. Ambiguity is killer restaurants, right? And I think I know that firsthand, I had a first restaurant that I opened 2013. It was called Piora. Yes, it was an Italian restaurant. You know, every restaurant was dream, like 32 seats, West Village, Uber, fine dining, synchronized drop, you know, like Michelin star. But it was ambiguous, right? It was a small, refined, creative, sophisticated, like passion driven restaurant in New York City. I've, I can actually name right now, like 50 of those restaurants. Like there's no real reason why you go there as opposed to 50 other quaint, somewhat fine dining, creative places, right? It was ambiguous, right? And, and I was not Italian. So what I was doing was little more of a fake it until you make it. And I think closing that restaurant and, and I had extreme financial struggle while having that restaurant. So imagine like I was, I always like tried to dress nicely. So I had a Michelin star restaurant in West Village and I dressed nice and I was fairly young guy. So everyone thought that I was rolling, you know, pretty nice, but little did they know I genuinely had less than like a couple hundred dollars in my checking account, almost to a point where I had to walk out of my friend's bar tabs because I just couldn't pay for it. So I became anti-social and I became this kind of like trapped in my own silo of, you know, seemingly successful, but factually broke, essentially broke. And I think that struggle of few years and fear and ultimately closing down the restaurant with a Michelin star and people loving this restaurant. And I felt this irresponsible and I felt like this kind of ginormous amount of guilt. And I think that's when it crystallized, you know, I'm going to do something that's authentic to who I am, right? Like, and that's why I'm going to do Korean barbecue mixed with American Steakhouse because I try to, if I try to do replicate what exists in Korea in America, I probably wouldn't do a good job because I'm not authentically Korean. Yes, I'm from Korea, but I'm equally as American. So that's why I found that American Steakhouse where I authentically resonated with and then I put it together where my roots are and came to and put it together. So it was not an analysis, right? It was not like, oh, you know, people like this, people like this, how about we put it together? It was genuinely like I failed and I had to be feel this. Irresponsibility and guilt and shame of closing a restaurant. And I said out, I'm going to do something, you know, even if I'm going to fail, I'm going to do something that's authentic to who I am and have that purpose. And then I'll go down swinging, you know, and I think that was code. And that's why timing didn't matter. None of this thing really mattered. And like it was intuitively, this is, this is the conviction. And I think that's how I was able to persevere, despite the fact that, like, you know, it was really difficult to fundraise. I raised like half the money. I started the construction. So I raised money like, like in trenches so that if one of those investments didn't come in by the weekend, who wouldn't be able to pay the contractors and it would go bust. And that week after week after week after week, like I was losing sleep, losing weight, I was just kind of dying. But I had that conviction that this needed to exist. And I think that's what gave me the strength to carry on. And that is so awesome because we talk about how much of our industry is grit. Can you get through it? Can you persevere? Can you keep going? Keep your head up? Keep fighting, especially when you believe in the concept like that. And then you found another concept that seems the same mix of your American and Korean identities with Koko Doc. So fried chicken, GIs brought it over to Asia and Korean fried chicken is delicious. I mean, you know, it's that's a thing. And that's another part of K-Town that as a cook in New York, we would go out for Korean barbecue, Korean fried chicken, you know, 2 a.m. after a shift. And you took the next concept of that, which is equally American and Korean and put it into Koko Doc. I mean, honestly, launching Koko Doc was very difficult because even my closest business partners, I'm talking about like my director of operations, my beverage directors, my partners, who's who's doing this. I would ask them, I real talk, you know, what do you think about this, you know, idea of a fancy fried chicken? They're like, Simon, I'm going to do whatever you ask me to do. And I'm here for the ride. But if you ask me, this is shit, it's not going to work. Like people do not eat fried chicken before going out. Fried chicken is not a fancy and though pastime. This is not going to work, but I'm going to do what I may ask me to do. So even and my investors were like, Simon, you can keep opening code and create a multi unit brand, something similar to Nobu. Why are you deviating and creating this high risk of a new product? But I really saw the once again, had the conviction, right? Because I love fried chicken and I love the story as I was like searching, you know, what is my next item? I thought about three different items that could that I could potentially scale. One was pizza, but I don't like pizza. I don't like carbs. And so pizza is like, I actually don't like pizza hot take. I know that's a damn, Simon. I didn't see that. I know. Yeah, I'm like pizza doesn't make me excited. Anyways, hamburger, but hamburger. I felt like other people really did it already, you know, and then fried chicken. I was like, I love fried chicken and everybody else loves fried chicken too. And when I looked at it and as a Korean-Americans perspective, I was like, oh, my God, it was the black American GIs that went to Korea like only 70 years ago. Until then Koreans didn't even eat fried chicken. Like they boiled it, you know. And so it just made so much sense as a Korean-American. I'm very fortunate that people appreciated me for being that kind of bridge, if you will. So I thought that I can now, you know, South Korea has the largest amount of fried chicken restaurant per capita in the world. And they developed this kind of culture. So it only made sense. I'm going to bring it back to America and pepper in Americana, like the cold slows and, you know what, American nostalgia and put it together. And of course, you know, just with code, I work for chefs like George George and Thomas Keller, right? Like the French bougie-ness is something that I really appreciate as well. The old cuisine element. So chicken nuggets with caviar, black truffle, the largest champagne list America and created this really fun space. And I think it's been a really amazing ride so far. And I think the conviction that I found was when I asked one of my mentors, like, how should I carry on? This is really, really tough. And I think he gave me really good insight. He was like, Simon, if you believe that put yourself out of the picture, right? Forget about you, you know, forget about Simon Kim. Does this high end Korean steakhouse need to exist without you? Take your you out of this equation. If the answer is yes, just keep going. It's going to be you that does it, right? Because if this is bound to happen, why not it be you? Right? So I think that really gave me the conviction because it's definitely going to be me. Right? Like, and that perseverance, I agree, Adrian. Like this business is, you know, nine o'clock, you come to our restaurants. It looks like the hottest place and most lucrative place on earth, you know? But it's not, right? The amount of hard work and every single shit goes wrong every single day, right? And and being able to put it all together and last the slow summers and, you know, call outs and global pandemics and rising prices and and shrinking labor forces. It's a real hard job. So I like one hot take for restaurant tours, aspirational, bro, like get out or be ready to like go into this cold water every single day. You know, it's like Navy SEALs going to ice cold water. I bet they never get used to it. This work will not get easier. Though the sooner you get accustomed to consistent stress and disappointments and and but a lot of hope and collaborations, that's only when it's going to become better for you, because this job is not going to get better. Right. It doesn't. It's the old. It never gets easier. You just get better, right? You just get stronger. Right. You've solved enough problems. And when you see those come up, you know how to solve them a little faster the next time or you get a new set of problems that you can take lessons from before. But also when you do it, do it long enough and and and do it with a good heart and intention, I feel like you attract fellow people. I think when it gets truly easier is when you have group of people who are like minded, when when they see cold water, they don't like, oh, you're going first, you're going first. No, if you can get a group of people, I'm going in first, even though we all know nobody wants to go in there. And I think that is when you create that. You know what? I'll go in first. I'll go in first, you know, and and now all of a sudden we're all drinking the Kool-Aid and of course it kind of sucks to go into the cold water. But like we created a culture, right? And I think I think that's really exhilarating. And I'm very fortunate that I have an amazing team like that. You got to make it a foot race to the cold water. You know what I mean? You want to be surrounded by people who are fighting to get it where it's like, you all know it's going to hurt. You all know it's going to be brutal. But you need that right group of like absolute lunatics who is like, well, I'm going to go a deeper than you and I'm going to go in before you. And you're just like, all right, we'll see. I'm going to keep swimming out. Yeah. But at some point we also need some like a CFOs who are like Simon. That's probably not a good idea. Like, do I have an ENP ready? You know? Yeah. Right. So I might have some heating blankets when we get out. Exactly. I financial. I can't figure out a way to not jump in the cold. Yeah. Right. Is there a bridge we can put over the cold water? Somebody have a rowboat? Right. I'm like, great idea. Simon's like, whoa, charge. But now the company's grown a little bit, right? So we and we're talking to more institutionalized kind of entities as well. So I think I'm finding myself as a restaurateur really being able to have those engineer types in the company. So we can actually look at the kind of task a little more with a bunch of lunatics, bunch of engineers that can really kind of have those opinions. But I think that what I'm finding the most important at this phase of my career is analysis paralysis is a real thing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yes. Whether you're a lunatic, whether you're an engineer, if you have one group of them, they'll lead a lot easier. But once you have an equally kind of robust group, then it's very difficult to come up. Who makes that call? And I think that's where restaurateurs really have to be. As a leader, as a person who's older at the top, I think it's really difficult to make those decisions which one to follow. And I think that's where intuition is really coming to play. At the end of the day, it's not the data. Data helps you. My intuition wouldn't follow such a strong data opposite direction, because intuitions are a combination of data, a combination of gut feeling, a combination of bias. All of this combined, probably the most sophisticated set of data, in my humble opinion, is human instincts. Simon, how do you define the role of a restaurateur? What is your role in your group? I think I'm more of a producer. If I was compared to a movie industry, and each film, we have a director who is executive chef or CDC, or general manager or director of operations. I feel like my role is to really have a good understanding of what's happening in the world and what kind of story we can put together that is authentic to us, but that's relevant to what the market is looking for, and then try to really find perfect people to do that with, and then gathering a bunch of money and being able to put the band together and launching the show, if you will. Gathering the money is a big part of it. Yeah, the gathering money part, I think, is one that people glaze over a lot of times. They're like, oh yeah, I'll just do my own thing. It's like, well, you're also going to need a tremendous amount of money to do this. And it's not the easiest thing to be like, hey, does somebody want to give me a couple of million bucks to make the riskiest investment of their life? Yeah, and a couple of million dollars no longer go that far, right? 2026, when we first started off in 2013, things were a little different, but now building anything and finding people just getting harder and harder, so it's an interesting time. Now, Simon, I know a few restaurateurs, and I find that everybody has their thing, lighting, glass, where everybody has something that they obsess over. What is a detail that you obsess over that other people might not even notice? I think one of the most important things that I try to communicate with my team is we as restaurateurs, we as restaurant operators, have to see the invisible, and I think those are what we really focus on, whether that is temperature, whether that is volume of music, light you can see, but being able to see the different varying things. How you feel, and I don't mean that in just hospitality, how did someone make you feel? Not like that. It's more physical, right? The temperature, is it warm, is it hot, is it cold? The music, the beats per minute, does it really get you flowing, or is it too fast? I think that's what I really focus on. How do I feel when I'm in this space, eating this food made by the chef? How everything comes together is what I really focus on. You said one that I haven't heard anyone else bring up, but it is a massive one in temperature. It's something that people don't think about, but we all know if the temperature of the room is not right, too hot, too cold, you will see that review the next day, guaranteed. We went in there, but it was too hot. We went in there, and it was too cold. We went in there, my porridge was too whatever. But it's like, if the temperature of the room, and it's hard to do because it's like you're cooking, and you're in New York, I'm in Chicago, it's like sometimes it just gets super, super cold, or super, super hot. And then you have still, you know, a couple hundred people opening and closing the door a thousand times. Right. Right. And you're trying to like maintain the space, and you're like, oh my God. I remember reading years ago that like Grant Atkinson, Alinia had set the temperature of the room and made sure the water was at a certain temperature, so the glasses never showed perspiration. I was like, that was when I started to say like, holy shit, like restaurant tours, like people are noticing details like that because you don't want your glasses to sweat on the wooden table. Man, I'm just trying to make sure the hoods work. But see, but that's the interesting part, right? Like a lot of chefs are hyper focused on like condensation on the glass. Personally, I don't mind the condensation, right? Because as a customer, I don't really care about the condensation, right? It doesn't bother me. But what does bother me is like what I focus on is little more customers as opposed to an object. Right. You know, like when it's people are getting really, really drunk, I believe when temperature is hot, blood flows faster. You get the feeling of alcohol feels little more more accentuated. If in that case, I want to make sure the temperature is cooled down a little bit. If the room is getting a little too wild up, you want to cool it down a little bit. Physically cooling that room down the temperature of the room actually slows down this animated movement of our customers. You know, vice versa. When the room is too rigid, you want to increase the temperature of the room, then they take off their outer layer, blood is flowing, drinks are feeling. So you get to really kind of like orchestrate the room. It's not so different than when DJs like pump it up and pump it up, pump it up and then they drop the thing, right? Like, it's not so different. You want to like, you want to build it up from 5pm, like build it up, build it up and like so that there's a real nice pop at like seven o'clock and then you build it up, build it up and like nine o'clock, nine thirty, there's a real build up and like some nights you can carry it to like eleven, right? Some nights dies down a little bit. You can't really force feed it, but you can definitely like maestro a little bit, you know? And when it's really, really like slow and stoic, you know, that's when you send like a round of tequila shots to some table that's going to really kind of bring out the fire. And like, I think curating that room to me as a restaurateur, you know, I'm very fortunate in that sense. I don't get to spend too much time in the kitchen, but I get to spend time in the hall. So while chefs are focused on, you know, how is my fish cooked or meat cooked or how the final presentation, I get to worry a lot about like, how are my customers like behaving and how are these food impacting our customers, etc. Now, Simon, when you were opening, was the goal always to become a global brand? Did you always want Coat and CocoaDoc to be a large global brand or did you just think that you would open a couple places in New York? I think I always wanted a big brand. I look up to Chef Nobu a lot, you know? I think Chef Nobu did such an amazing job. And as an Asian restaurateur, how he expended the brand and how global that is really resonates. I mean, personally, I think I would like to open slightly less amount of number of restaurants compared to, say, Nobu. But like, I'm always constantly drawn to different cultures and places and what have you and being able to be a restaurateur, they get trouble around the world. And more and more, we want to adopt those cultures. Like, for example, Coat Miami have Saviche. We want to continuously develop the Latin flavors of Miami, incorporated into Coat Miami. In Vegas, we have a Vegas specific dishes. We have Coat Singapore, that also has a Coat Singapore specific dishes. So the idea is we can like, continuously move them up into HQ, recipe books and what have you. We can rotate them around, keep things fresh, right? I feel like the next generation, we are looking for something that's constantly evolving, constantly stimulating. We have a very short attention span now, right? Nobody can watch a full movie. They just want shorts. So I feel like we want to really kind of adopt this kind of evolution and have the feeling of something special, but have the feeling of something that's an international brand. So how do we actually capture the brand's quality control and trust to the brand? Meanwhile, capturing the essence of a local restaurant that feels special to be there. How do I find the perfect balance that's commercially successful, but ultimately gives you the feeling of mom and pop restaurant that's rich in soul? That is the biggest question that we always ask. Yeah, it's not just cookie cutter. It's not like you just took the concept and just cut and paste. On another city, I love that it actually reflects the culture of where it is. And it's the same experience. You know what to expect, but it is tailored in a way that shows that you understand the market and you care about where you're opening these places. It's not just imposing the New York menu on Miami. It's taking into consideration what the food culture is there and in Singapore. And you talked about Vegas and you used to work there earlier in your career, was that a goal? Was that kind of like I'm bringing it back to Vegas, back where I started as this big brand? 100%. I think Vegas, I still have a 702 number. I never changed it after I left Vegas. I wanted to kind of carry that piece of Las Vegas DNA because ultimately we're all just the accumulation of our past, right? And I think it's so important to embrace that. But if you look at all of my restaurants, Las Vegas DNA has always been in it, right? It's dark, there's neon signs, the light, light, the music. There's this kind of sense of, because in Vegas, when you go out in Vegas, you're not coming from work, right? You actually flew to Vegas to go out, right? So there's this kind of like feeling of people from all over America and somewhat like all over the world coming out and getting ready to go out for the evening, you know, getting ready in their hotel rooms. That feeling is really, really fun and exhilarating. And I think that feeling, we want to capture that whether we're in New York, whether that is in Miami, whether that is in Las Vegas, that's been in there. So this kind of music, darkness, nightclub, live five, but, you know, make no mistake, we procure the best ingredients, the most amazing wine list, and all those things, you know, it's not am I fine dining restaurant or fun dining restaurant, we're fine fun dining restaurant. It's just that when we went to Vegas, we turned up the volume of fun a lot bigger so that we can like throw it down. That's true. There's this misconception that Coco Doc, that they're more about the fun and the show, but it's not style over substance. The substance is just as important, the integrity for the ingredients, the cooking, like every, you all did not win a Michelin star for nothing at two of the locations, like the food is legit, the care that goes into stuff. And when you walk in, you're like, Oh my God, this is going to be so expensive. You look at the menu, there's great bottles of wine at all price points. Was that intentional? 100% Adrienne. I think that's like one of our biggest mission. Don't get me wrong. If you want to take code for a ride, you can like, you can ball out, break up, back. And I've seen some checks where I'm like, Holy smokes. But we're very intentional about our pricing. So our butcher's feast that comes with four different types of a banchan, four different types of meat, including USDA prime beef, American Wagyu, USDA prime dry aged rabai, a galbi that's marinated with a bunch of food juices and all these cool chef's touches, a diamond cut, a lot of labor, comes with two different stews, kimchi stew that takes a lot of time and efforts to make doenjang stew, miso stew, bowl of rice, and bunch of kimchi and scallions. Scallions are not cheap, you know, chef, right? All of this, so four different types of meat, as well as a dessert, a soft serve dessert, we want to make sure that our customer can get all of this for a puck, price of a puck of a filet mignon at a pretty decent steakhouse. I'm talking about a puck of filet mignon that does not come with anything. So because $78 is a really nice chateau brion, like a one puck. So it's like my favorite thing, because I'm a New Yorker, I came from Korea, but I'm American and I have a ginormous pride as I wanted to be American. It's not like I by default, I became an American, you know, this is a I love America and I love New York. And I think what New York is, is when I go to a restaurant, there is an NYU students, shifting giggles and having the best time sitting next to a billionaire who's like popping whatever they're popping. But we're all different, but equal, and everybody's having the best time. And I think we don't ever want to lose that no matter how busy we become and whatnot. And sometimes I've checked myself because I'm a capitalist as well. You know, so I think one of the things you brought up that I think is really interesting to me is, you know, like Vegas, it's like, you know, when you talk about expanding the brand seems obvious, right? Because it's like you have roots there, you know, what you're doing, it seems to make sense. But like as a restaurateur, and I think this is more of a question for me and like, where I'm at my career, it's like, how do you look at a city? Like, you know, because it's like, we look at restaurant spaces, right? We've all walked restaurant spaces, we've all walked buildings and been like, okay, how does this feel? What do you look for the city that says to you, like, this is this is where code needs to be. This is where coconut needs to be. This is the next city I need to go to. Like what's your I would love to know like a little bit about like, what's your process like in that? Yeah. Honestly, I think it's the biggest thing, once again, intuition, right? When you go spend about a week just going to different restaurants, go sightseeing. And if it vibes with you, you're like, I like it here, I love it here. I think that is the first sign, right? Because at the end of the day, these are your your work is fortunately, unfortunately, direct reflection of who you are, right? So if you jive and vibe well with the city, and the people of the city, and the restaurants and how this is happening, then it works. If you look at where I'm at, you can clearly tell I'm in New York, I'm in Miami, I'm in Las Vegas. What is the common denominator of all three cities? People love going out, right? It's a vibe of a city, right? Like Las Vegas, New York, Miami, there's common denominator, which is like people, there's high energy, high intensity, people, there's a certain level of a feeling of celebration. So those cities when I went, I felt those vibes really viving. So I think those are key things. I think, honestly, data, like median income, average, like foot traffic, or like these data, I think is such a blanket numbers, because, you know, no matter how big your restaurant is, none of these metrics really matter, right? At the end of the day, all you need is 140 people, you know, there's no like million tourists 200 million, you know, none of these things are as important as, you know, we're first of its kind, Korean steakhouse, we have this fun conviviality, but also kind of simplicity of item being a steak. So when I looked at Miami, even though there's no Asian culture reflection there whatsoever, and many people are like, Simon, do not go there, because people do not appreciate Asian culture down there. But I went there, I realized like the bunch of Latin culture, they're always thirsty for something different. They love beef, they love going out, this would work. It's the fact that nothing else like this exists, clearly paid ginormous of dividend, and now court Miami actually a superseded New York's number for the first year this year, right? So yeah, so I think when I go to a city, I think it's so important, you know, first, you know, why did you open a restaurant in the first place, Joe? Because it's, you know, what I love and where I wanted to be. Exactly, right? Exactly. I think this is what you love. So I feel like when you fall in love with the city, I think that is genuinely so much more important than medium incomes and these metrics, and because we try to put our businessman head on, but it was always about the love. It was always about the connection with the people and the culture. And I think as long as we stick to that, because we are better at that than any other people, like when we start analyzing data, let's be real, Joe, you and I are not here on this podcast because we're a good data analyst or financial analyst or whatnot, but we can spot where the love is, where what do people, how do people eat, where the rooms are, right? Like I think celebrating, putting it all together and like through love, you know, like, when I feel that at a restaurant, I just go back to that restaurant because the percentage of restaurant that has the level of love and authenticity is, in my humble opinion, less than 10%. We have a segment that we like to call Walk-In Confessions, and this is where you get to tell us a funny story from early in your career. We know the Simon Kim now who has built these global brands of Coke and Coco Doc and Grace and Cosby. Mr. Worldwide over here. Right? Right? Like Pitbull. But who was the Simon Kim? Like what was a funny story from earlier in your career where you had to pull a rabbit out of a hat to make it happen or maybe it didn't work out, but here you are to tell the tale. I'll share one actually, little heavy story. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'll, so this was in Times Square. I was managing a restaurant and the sommelier was busy opening another restaurant. I got called to one table and I went to the table and I wanted to be good at what I do. So I learned how to present the bottle of wine, sort of a little nice survey behind the label, and then I presented the bottle. And the host basically looked at me and said, without real offensiveness, they said, but can a white person open this bottle of wine? And I think that like, hit me really hard. And at to date, I'm not really well versed in wine, right? Just because I think that really had a real like an augmentation on kind of how my professional brain worked. But that being said, I think that those kind of like earthquake of moments really kind of challenges you whether do you belong in this industry or not. And then you find the conviction that nobody else will tell me whether I belong in this industry or not. And you kind of find these convictions and you start to appreciate what makes you unstoppable is moments of stops that makes you kind of question, should I stop or not? And then you reignite, you remove forward, and you tell yourself you're in and nobody else will tell you when to stop or when to go, but you and your team and your partners and your coworkers. And I think that's walk in confession. Yeah, dude, I have that shit where you're just like, I'll keep this chip on my shoulder. Like, yeah, you know what, when you want to say that shit to me, fuck you. Like, you know, I'll be at your table, I'm gonna start building my own. You know what I mean? And it's like, it's, it's like, that's the stuff where it's like, yeah, that could have sent you, man, that could have been it. Yeah, that's the, I mean, to be fair, to be fair, that that did send me, right? Like I said on a hindsight, as you mentioned, Joe 2020, I'm on a hindsight, I can say this back then, but I was just so embarrassed. I didn't know what to do. I think I was just, I was devastated. But ultimately, once again, you know, I want to just share with our industry people, devastation, disappointment, all this hardship is what makes us who we are, right? Like, let's wear it on the sleeve. And I just encourage everyone to find that strength and hope and perseverance, because that is what makes us stronger, not our brilliant ideas and how we can tap dance at a table, making more sales. It is this kind of grit and perseverance. Yes, yes. And you are embodying that Simon. I that, oh, that would have sent me, but as a professional, you, you held it together and you are stronger and better because of that and probably even more empathetic with your teams and your guests and knowing how to help coach them through experiences like that. So they don't get discouraged in their careers. Amen. Well, thank you for sharing that. That's awesome. Simon, you've been incredible. Man. Thank you very, very much. Me and age will have to come see you next time. I'm in New York and I grew up and what I mean Chicago, I'm on some carbonara and I'm a third Yalla. So come on, come on by. I'll see you. I'll see you Jude, you know, I'll get you some pasta before you go out and get out of the red carpet. Let's go. That is it for this episode of The Chef's Cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube where you can find full length episodes of every show. And be sure to follow us at Chef's Cut pod on IG. For Joe Flam, I'm Adrienne Cheetham and this has been The Chef's Cut. Life be on the path.