2839: Stop Cutting. Build Instead. The Science of Getting Lean the Right Way.

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They're going to do three days of coaching, breaking down things like nutrition, exercise, lifestyle, really to help you become more consistent and maximize your progress through the program. We also include a supplement schedule guide, which will be free with this program. Again, you can get all of that included 40% off. Mapsppl.com, the code is PPL. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Stop cutting your way into getting leaner. Build into it. It's a way better approach. We're going to talk about it right now. Feels like this has been the theme of our calls lately. A lot of people that want a leaner physique or want to lose body fat, and the approach is that they're going about it. I think we would agree is all wrong because they're already in a place where they're pretty low calorie. They're exercising quite a bit, and yet they're still, you know, say four or 5% body fat away from where they want to be. They'd be far better off if they increased calories, tried to build muscle. Even if they didn't get to the quote unquote body fat percentage they want, I think they would achieve the physique that they want faster that way. Yeah. Let's break down what you mean by boosting calories. This is in the context of eating healthy diet, high protein diet. You guys are eating more garbage, but it is a fact that more muscle, healthier muscle, stronger muscle is advantageous for fat loss. It's extremely advantageous for fat loss. It's also extremely advantageous for longevity. I'm going to pull up a study right now because I think what's happened, I know this actually, I know this is what's happened over the last, I don't know how many decades, is we've taken body fat and made that like the number one enemy. Now this isn't to say that excessive body fat doesn't have problems and it doesn't cause health issues. It does. But I'm going to read you guys a study that illustrates a little bit of what we're talking about. So the study itself says, this was published, this was in Science Daily. So Science Daily you can find new studies that are published. And this was a study out of Brazil. And the summary says having both excess belly fat and low muscle mass isn't just unhealthy, it's deadly, raising the risk of death by 83%. This condition is called sarcopenic obesity. So this is people who are over, have over fat, but very little muscle. Now that's that the part that's going to blow you away. This is what it says deeper in the study. This study revealed that individuals with both conditions, so excess belly fat and less and low muscle mass, had an 83% higher risk of death compared to those who didn't have them. Here's where it gets wild. We also found that the risk of death was reduced by 40% among those with low muscle mass and no abdominal obesity. Okay. So same person, same little muscle mass, they lose the belly fat. Now their overall risk of death goes down by 40%. That sounds amazing. Here's where it gets crazy. Interestingly, and I love how the researchers say this, individuals with abdominal obesity but adequate muscle mass weren't associated with an increased risk of death. No risk. No risk. No risk. It went from 83% to zero. Wow. Because the people had muscle. Yeah. So they had belly fat and muscle. Yeah. Okay. So being strong and fat is better than being skinny and weak. Muscles, your insurance. It's definitely better than being fat and weak. Also, muscle makes fat loss easier. And so if your goal is fat loss, if your goal is to get leaner, you want to lose 60 pounds on the scale, the mental approach, the approach you need to take is let me build my body into leanness. Let me build the body that I want, not cut or reduce into the body I want. Because what happens when you, when you go from being 60 pounds overweight and you're not working out and you're like, you know what, let me reduce my calories. And let me just start moving a lot because that's the formula, right? Burn more calories, eat less calories. You will lose weight. But along with that weight that you'll lose, you will lose muscle. This is a fact. Every study done on this shows us you will lose a good 30 to 50%. Most studies show around 40% of the weight that you lose will be muscle mass. And here's what happens at that point. Let's say you've lost 30 of the 60 pounds, but you know, 10 of those pounds were muscle. You still lost some body fat, but you also lost some muscle. Now you're in a place where it might be a little healthier, not a lot healthier because you lost some muscle. We saw what muscle does, how protective it is for health. But now you're, you're sitting with a metabolic rate that is disadvantageous for further fat loss. So now I'm moving a lot. I'm eating way less than I was. I lost half the weight on the scale that I wanted, even though 10 pounds of it was muscle and I plateau. So now what do I do? Do I continue down this path? What that looks like is more movement and even less food. And then I plateau, again, and more movement and even less food and then screw it. This sucks. I don't want to do this anymore. And I just go back to what I was doing before versus I'm going to build into a leaner physique. And this looks different. It looks like I'm getting stronger. I'm hitting a high protein diet. I'm fueling my body because you have to fuel muscle mass and the scale might not move. It might not move for a little while, but I'm building muscle. By the way, the reason why the scale is not moving, even though you're building muscles, you're actually kind of losing body fat at the same time. This happens relatively commonly, but you might even gain a little bit of weight on the scale. I don't care. I'm building my body. I'm building myself into fat loss. So you go through this process of building six months later, man, I am way stronger. I mean, I got high protein diet. I'm feeding myself whole natural foods. I'm eating when I'm hungry. I don't even feel like I'm starving. And I feel great. Let me see what happens when I cut my calories a little bit. Boom, fat comes off your body way better, much more sustainable approach. And I really think the mentality that we go into with weight loss is really screwing people up. You know, this also feeds into the strategy that I think that we all landed on with our clients later in our career when we first would start them. Right. I remember early on getting drilled about diet is 75% of your results. And so much of the conversation when I first got a client was around their eating and I would write out these meal plans and tell them to follow that to a tee. And you know, it'll be all about, did you do it? Did you eat what I told you where you consist of and was so focused on that? And then I look back to when that shifted for me where it became, I actually stopped really focused. I'd have them tracked to tell me what they ate. So I had an idea of what they were consuming. But I really didn't put a lot of emphasis initially on the diet. I was like, can I get this person into lifting weights? And there's something really freeing about that for the person to hear a study like that because even if you didn't lose any body fat, but we put on 10 pounds of muscle, you're at such a healthier place than that person. Even the person, by the way, who's being told by the doctor, you need to lose weight. You lose weight, you're way overweight, you need to lose weight. You still that the version of you with 10 pounds more muscle and haven't lost any body fat is still better than the person who just loses. Oh yeah. Just still a trade and a compromise by going the cutting route right away and not really focusing on emphasizing the build. There's so many benefits on the build side. If you just pit them against each other, it's quite insane. I mean, like an alleviating pain, being able to have that kind of strength, ability and able body, and then down the road, obviously it takes a bit more time and is drawn out a bit further. But the long-term effect of that in the resiliency and all the, you know, your immune system, you can go down the list of all the systems of the body that it benefits. Yes, but also, here's the other thing. The other approach, doctors like you got to lose a bunch of weight. Okay. So you're like, fine, I'm going to go into this calories, we're starting running. Okay. The fail rate on that, what I mean by that is even doing that crazy. That's right. If you succeed in losing the weight, which a small percentage of people actually carry it out that far because it sucks. It's a crappy process. It's difficult enough to change your behaviors in the ways that we're talking about, which is easier. Now you're going to do it the hard way or you're just burning a bunch and eating very little, so you feel like crap. That really sucks. But let's just say you're just hardheaded and you stick with it. So you lose your 30 pounds. The fail rate, okay, meaning the percentage of people that gained the weight back in a year or two, almost 100%. Okay. So it's not, so what Justin said about the way that we're explaining it's a little more drawn out. That infers that there's a faster way to do it. No, no, no. The truth is it doesn't work the other way. Well, yeah, it just doesn't work. It's misleading. Yeah, it doesn't work. Like, do you want to do this in the way that works or do you want to do this in the way that doesn't work? That's the real way to present this. And like what you were saying as a trainer, Adam, when I got good at training, I focused on getting stronger. This is what we're going to focus on. Well, it's also, it's easier. It's easier for the client. I mean, we just, we had a call or just recently and they called in for the first time and found the podcast. I don't know how many years ago he had said and hadn't hadn't bought a math program yet, hadn't done anything like that. But I just followed the advice and radically changed his physique just from from lifting three days a week, focusing on getting strong, eating protein, eating when he's hungry, eating protein for and that that's it. And it was just like he ended the his exact words is like, it's crazy. My whole life I've been struggling with weight or being overweight. And he goes, I had no idea how easy it was. Dude, if you just simply did that. And he's like, I don't really track. I don't really do any of these things. I just eat my focus on getting protein centric meals. I lift three days a week. I focus on the compound lives. I'm hungry. I feed myself like it and he goes, I've just completely shifted my ball. And it's easy to maintain. So there's this really freeing thing for the person who is struggling with weight to, you know, stop focus hyper focusing on restricting yourself from all these foods and like just start with, go to the gym and lift weights and try and get strong. And then and then if you do anything diet wise, make an effort to eat protein and eat it first in the meal. And that right there will shift so much in the right direction that it'll give you that momentum that you want. And it won't feel like you're white knuckling your way through this weight loss journey that you think you have to go on. And it'll get easier. And it does take time. And I think that's the other issue is that we have, you know, these crazy radical transformations and short periods of time that we're marketed to. And we had another live caller also today that, you know, was he gave us basically what he was doing. We had these before pictures since November and where he's at now. And it's like, bro, just his and the whole time his scale hadn't moved, right? So scale can see them. He's obviously leaner. Yeah, way more. Yeah, yeah. You're on track. Yeah. It's like, you're perfect. Just extend out what you've done for another six months. You'll look at that picture and go look at how radically the radical change you did from November to now. And then you'll look back and go six more months like on the same exact path, eating the way you're eating, training the way you're training. And you get strong, all those things. Yeah. It's also it's also wild because I get it. I get it. Like once you finally make the decision to do something, you have a sense of urgency. Sure. You've made the decision. Now it's like, that's it. I'm going to do something about it. Right. But the reason why you feel this urgency is because you've been living the other way for so long. In other words, you didn't gain 60 pounds in two months. Okay. It took you a while. It took you a while to get to kind of this point. And you've been with it for a little while. So I get when you finally make the decision, you're like, I'm done living this way. But I'm going to tell you right now, first off, it takes some time. Second off, the only way to do it with any amount of long-term forever success is going to take a little while and you have to build into it. If you don't build into it, it's just, it's not, I'm going to tell you right. It's not going to happen. It's just not going to happen. You're going to again, I'm going to say this again, if you're hardheaded enough and just, oh God, you just grind hard enough and you do it the wrong way, you may lose the weight you're trying to lose, but your odds of long-term success are almost zero. Dismal. Which is like, why would you choose, think about it this way to yourself. I have two paths. And by the way, I have a map here that tells me that this is a dead end. This is a dead end over here. Why would you take the dead end? Don't take the dead end. Believe what we're saying. And if you don't look at the data, look at the data on calorie restriction and weight loss. Look at the data on calorie restriction plus excessive exercise and weight loss. Look how much muscle people lose. Now look at the data on two years after people lose weight, what percentage of people gain back. Find all these studies you'll see for yourself. Dead end, dead end, dead end. Now find the studies on longevity and how strength is a great predictor of mortality. A grip strength test is a phenomenal predictor of mortality. Nothing special about the grip. It's just a proxy for strength. Then look at the data on people who are overweight with strength or with muscle. How healthy they seem to be. Now of course they'd be better off leaner, but it just goes to show you the power of strength and muscle. And if you look around in society, everybody, I know what it looks like to everybody. This is what it looks like. It looks like we're walking around in an obesity epidemic. In fact, that term is, everybody's familiar with it, obesity epidemic. But if you dig a little deeper and you have people lift something or squeeze something or press something, what you're really looking at is an epidemic of weakness. Yeah, throw something under muscle. That's why what Dr. Giver lines her whole message that she's been touting for some time now, I think is so true, so powerful. And I know I'm sure everybody's tired of hearing me say this because I've said it so many times on the podcast, but I think another reason why this is so difficult Sal is you alluded to that, you know, you're super motivated to make this change. You've been living with all this body fat. And so you want to, and it is the one thing that doesn't serve you the more you do or the harder you go at it, right? Like almost in terms of the effort. Yeah, everything else in your life. And I think that's why this is, it gets so difficult for people is because logically you would think, well, if the harder I push, the more I work out, the more I do these things, the faster I get the results I want. It's the one thing in life that's like, that's not true. There is a, there is an actual right balance and there's a science to this. And if that is off, it's going to be a hell of a time trying to get there versus what you hear these callers when you do the right dose appropriately, it's very easy. But when you try and muscle your way, meaning like, you know, work as hard as you can to get to there, it doesn't serve you. Look, look, it's really like this. Like there's a smart way to do it. I'll say it that way, because I hear what you're saying, will relate or correlate our effort to that meaning or correlating to the result that we get. The effort is what produces the result. But if I told you to dig a hole in your backyard for a pool, and I gave you a spoon, would you go out there and be like, let's go. I mean, let me tell you, you'd work your ass off, you'd be sweating your butt off, you get almost no work done with the spoon, you'd go get a backhoe. And you would do way less work and that hole would be dug in less than a day. So that's, that's, that's really the way you got to think about this is, yeah, you could, you could make it as hard, you can make it really hard, you can do anything stupid, a better tool for the job, you can make it really dumb and make it really hard on yourself, or you could choose the easier path. And here's what it feels like when you build yourself into a lean physique. This is what it feels like. Okay, once this, once the ball gets rowing, you got to get it, give it a second, but the ball will start to roll, you'll get stronger, and you're not going to notice much yet, except for the fact that you're way stronger, you got more energy, you feel better. Okay, that's the initial stages. But once that ball gets rolling, this is what it's going to feel like. You're going to be like, this is weird. I'm getting leaner. I don't feel like I'm doing much. Or how is it I'm eating this much. And I'm getting leaner, like this doesn't make any sense. I don't feel like I'm working out that much. I don't feel like I'm killing myself. These are the comments, by the way, that really good trainers get from their clients. If you're a good trainer, the comments you should get from your clients typically sound like that. Like, you know what, I mean, you know, when we work out, we do a good workout. I don't feel like I'm putting the effort in to look the way this is crazy. How am I getting these kind of results? Like we're doing it smart. I can still sit down without groaning. It's wild. But it's really about the mentality you go into it. And I just want to encourage people, if your goal is to get strong, if you make that your goal and you feed that goal with whole natural foods, high protein diets, heavily processed foods will make this very difficult. So stay away from that whole natural foods, high protein, and lift weights and get stronger. That will make the fat loss happen in a sustainable way. It'll actually work. So anyway, I love which one you're using right now. Is that the glutathione from row? The NAD. I like their NAD. Like both. I feel the energy from like they're creating too. Well, for me right now, Max is really sick at the house right now. And so I'm just hitting it up for sure. Yeah, I don't. And I find myself when I'm really good about all of NAD, the glutathione, making sure I'm hitting my multivitamin supplementary. So row uses a medical technology called liposomal technology. So these are basically little tiny molecules of fat that they'll put around the ingredient, which protects it. And you get more bioavailability. So your body actually absorbs it. So you just use glutathione. If you took glutathione that wasn't liposomal, it's basically a waste of money. Like you'll get no rise in your glutathione. In fact, back in the day, absorb it, nothing as well. It just goes through your body. Back in the day, the only way to get glutathione was if you want to see your blood. It's IV, right? Wasn't it? Yeah, you'd have to do injection. Yeah. That would be the only way we would see a rise in blood glutathione until liposomal. And if you take liposomal glutathione, you will predictably see a rise. Is that like, is that relatively new technology? No, it's not super new, but it is a technology. And it was first, I want to say pharmaceutical companies were the first one. Maybe you could look that up, Doug. Who invented? I feel like I don't, I don't remember hearing about that in our early years as a personal trainer. No, no. And then I feel like, I don't think the science is super new, but supplements using it. I think that's kind of a newer, relatively, yeah, probably medical grade, you know, supplements for a while. That's so interesting. I don't remember. It's interesting that that 1961. Oh yeah. The science has been around that long and yet supplement companies, is it maybe all the 1970s is when they started using liposomes as drug delivery systems, but it was first discovered in 1961. And then why is it expensive? Like, why haven't more supplements used that as a way to transport nutrients? It usually is more expensive. That's why. Yeah. And because it was a new technology, like, where are you going to find the place to make, to use this unless you're a pharma company? Yeah. And, and, and, but Ro specializes in it. And is there a reason why, for example, you know, things like NAD, glutathione, I would use that that way, but I'm not a creatine that way, like. So theoretically, anything that's liposomal will have increased bioavailability. However, some things have great bioavailability without liposomal technology. So not necessary, but some things like, like glutathione, you waste your time if you take it any other way, unless you inject it. I wonder if NAD is like that also. It makes a big difference with the absorption. You can absorb some orally, but it's got poor bioavailability and comparison to liposomal technology. Yeah, I felt like, because I remember we tried, I had tried the oral forms before, never noticed anything. It wasn't until I did either the IV or the liposomal that I noticed a difference. Exactly. All right. All right. Let's talk about the earthquake last night. Yeah. Did everybody feel, did you even feel it? Oh yeah. You were like in the epicenter, dude. So it was like, oh, so it got you more. Yeah. It was like in Boulder Creek area, which was just a couple of miles away from us. So it was a what 4.6 dog? Was it? Was that the earth? I believe it's 4.6. Yeah. And that, oh, and you were center. So you got it the most. So then you felt the most, you probably felt it's second and then third and I was probably the least. It was one of those shifting ones too. Yeah. It shook my house. Correctly. And on the furthest. Wow. Like laterally and, I mean, I was dead sleep, like just completely out and it jolted me up and the boys, you know, obviously woke them up the whole house. So it was, I mean, I was just kind of joking about it. And then I was like, oh, just wait for the aftershocks and then I scared the boys. Oh, great. I say that. Yeah. It was at 140, oh, 141. There it was. 141 AM. It woke us up. My wife, if just any perceived threat for the kids, she turns into a monster. Like I don't care. There could be a dinosaur in there and she'll tackle them. It's just like ready to run downstairs. Like, and I'm like, no, no, no, not why there's an earthquake. She's gonna fall. She's gonna attack the earthquake. I don't want you to fall, you know, on the stairs or something like that. But she gets up like maybe that's what it is. It's a mama bear thing or not. It's, I was telling you guys on the walk that sometimes I take for granted. I have a wife that is just so tough. She doesn't complain. She's like, she's, there's so many traits about her that I think I take for granted sometimes. But every once in a while, I see that, that the side of her that I don't ever get to see, like where she's very scared, like she doesn't get scared. I don't seem to that earthquakes do that. We've been through enough with each other. And, you know, she was max of six. So her and Max were sleeping in the other room and she comes storming in, carrying him, you know, after the whole even. Yeah, whole even are like, you know, where should, what should we do? And I'm like, huh? I was like, yeah, I was like, I can go to sleep. I just roll over. I'm like half awake. I felt it. It woke me up. It was a good one. You know what I'm saying? It shook me. But it's like, it's just, I think I've been in so many earthquakes that I'm like, it's not that big of a deal. I was like, when things start falling off the wall, then you might catch me get up in a doorway, right? I'm saying like that. So you're supposed to stand in a doorway, you know, so I might go like do something like that. But if, if like picture frames are flying off, because we've been in, we've been in over a seven, right? So one of the, since we've all been in that was 89 years. Yeah. Yeah. That was like a 7.1 7.1. And that one, that one threw stuff off the wall. And like, and so something like that is enough to, but I mean, I've been in ones where I was at the gym at Santa Teresa and the windows were flexing. You know, it's like, I mean, there's not much you could really do. No, you're going to write it out, dude. You know what's weird is that earthquakes have never, they don't scare me. They never have. Not the 89. I was 10. I was on the couch watching the World Series and it threw me off the couch and I just got back on. It's never, this never, I fell. I was in the shower. You literally can do nothing. I know they're scary. They're supposed to be scary, but they don't necessarily, like, I'm way more terrified of like the ocean or wind, but earthquakes for some reason don't. But a lot of people are really scared by them. Doug was, you were in a big one in Japan, right? Yeah. Back in, I believe it was 95. How big was that one? 7.2 maybe I'm guessing. Over seven. Yeah. It was over seven. It hit Kobe and I was living in Osaka at the time. And I felt my room going back and forth. And my girlfriend at the time was living in Kobe. And so I tried to call her. I couldn't get through. The phones were down. And then I couldn't, I finally got through to her and she was okay. Her family house was damaged. Yeah. Not, not destroyed. But in Kobe, there was like 10,000 people who died because of fires. Yeah. Because of a lot of wood construction and then gas lines, things like that. Yeah. So about 10,000 people died. And I couldn't see her for like two months after that because trains were running. Yeah. Look up two months. Look up the the 89 89 caused, caused deaths like with the bridge and everything like that. That was, I mean, that was crazy, right? That if you were, if you were somebody who was 89, look at the pictures of San Francisco in 89. Yeah. San Francisco had had some some building damages. You had bridges collapse. So yeah. So yeah, so you had some buildings fall down in San Francisco. The Bay Bridge collapsing was crazy. Bridge is crazy. Oh yeah. That was way crazy. I was at the Oakland Coliseum. Are you at the game? Yeah. The day before though, I was up in the nosebleeds too. I was like, Oh man, that would be crazy. Look at Kobe. That's the Kobe earthquake. See what terrifies me more than all those videos is although that is scary or like tsunamis, like a fight like tsunami videos. Oh, no, I'm with you. I would be more terrified of that. The earth because I mean, first of all, the likelihood of that and then you have those structures that you see are like, those are vulnerable structures. Like my house, we'd have to go through probably like something crazy for my house to collapse, right? The earthquake would have to be something we've never seen before for. So it's like, so when I, we get a lot of the buildings in California, a lot of the other code. Yeah. That's like old cities. Yeah. Old San Francisco. Those that's why it's like, this was made of brick here anymore. Yeah. So your, your house today, I don't know. I don't know what the, what the number is that we'd have to be to like the magnitude of it. But I mean, so, so what happens? I'm just kind of like, your guy roll right back to go back to speaking of natural disasters and stuff. When do you guys remember the documentary with Al Gore, the inconvenient truth? Oh yeah. When was that made? How accurate was that 2000? I don't remember. Two or one. I want to, listen, this brought the entire scare with like, polar bears like it like, oh no, like they're not going to have 2006. It was 2006. Now this document is 20 years ago. Now this documentary is what kicked off the climate change fear. This is the green movement. This was huge. And this documentary got lots of publicity, lots of people saw. Isn't like movie theater. And it's scared to hell out of people. It changed public policy. It created this, this, this political, still hear people like reciting it. That's right. This is the political term climate change. I call it political term because it's used in that way, right? Uh, and the fears and greenhouse gas. Because technically climate's been changing forever. Well, hold on. When's the last time you guys stop being logical? Stop it. When's the last time you guys watch it? I don't think I've ever seen it. Listen, since forever ago, this movie is like the same did not stand the test of time. It made a lot of predictions. Yeah. By this time, none of them came true. Zero. Bro. He was showing pictures of like, oh, this is what's going to happen to Greenland. And then this is what's going to happen. And then here's what Florida's going to look like. This was made in 2006. So he's like in 10 years. So he's got 10 years to like make a predict like in 10 years, this is what's going to happen. None of it. None of it. So right now people are posting clips right now showing these predictions that they made, you know, based off their, whatever their science, it's all, it was all. It's also convenient that there's different climate spots all over the world. So you have one climate in this, you know, part of the hemisphere, you have one in the Southern part of the hemisphere, like they're all different climates. They're all changing at different paces. But that's too inconvenient. I should show you the clips because the way he says it, the way he talks, you know, obviously he's a politician, so he can communicate very effectively. And he's like, oh, this is going to happen. Like if we don't dramatically reverse course, this is what Florida's going to look like. And I have a picture of Florida, like half of it's covered in water. This is what the Bay Area is going to look like. And like San Francisco is covered in water. And you know, the billionaires still have all like beachfront, like right there, like in the keep buying. Yeah. Meanwhile, the politicians are still buying property. You guys don't believe this yourself. They don't believe it. Yeah. Why should we believe that? Where did you see all that stuff pop up? You just hear recently, there are people who are posting on an X and they're like, yeah, they're like, boy, this looks pretty bad. Did you make predictions like that? Oh, yeah. Dude, I had something crazy. So this weekend, I'm sitting outside in the morning. I'm having a cup of coffee. My mother-in-law sends me a song to listen to. She knows that like I like jazz music and that's like my easy listening stuff, right? So she sends me this new artist that I had heard of and I listened to it. I'm like, oh my God, this is really good. And I send back to her. I'm like, I said, this is really good. I'm going down like all I'm listening to like his playlist right now. And she's like, I know, doesn't he just like speaks to you, right? I'm like, yeah, I know, it's real good. So I'm listening. I'm like going through like all his songs. And I'm like, dude, how have I I've never heard this guy. So I pull, I go to his Spotify and you know, the picture of him, he's like this older black guy and he's got like an old retro kind of mic he's singing into. And like all his songs are in 2026. And I'm like, so of course I start Google searching. So I sent, I find out this dude is completely AI generated. I sent back to her and she's like, no way. So this morning, she's it's all over the news right now. So he broke the charts. Aren't they supposed to have two number one like two number one songs in the last terrible. Yeah. So I'll send you I'll send you Doug check out the like it sounds like new music. It's not bro. It's it's all it's new lyrics. It's a new it's a different voice. It's complete. And so brilliant. Because right now, are you already pulling up? Did you pull it up already? I'll give it to you. She's I got it right here. It's all over the news. But if you were hoping to see Eddie Dalton live, don't hold your breath. Old school soul and blues musician is not real. He's entirely AI generated. That's right. Eddie Dalton is generated by artificial intelligence. Wow. What in the heck is Wow. By the way, you know what's funny about Eddie, Eddie Dalton, you know, it's crazy about Oh, he's got three of the top. You know, it's crazy about this. So there's like an organization now of well so artists are getting together. Hollywood actors and musicians and they're trying to like fight this. But you know what the problem is, is that nobody sympathizes with them. I know. Nobody care nobody sympathize you're a Hollywood actor, you always give me your opinion about everything you're so whatever. And now you're like, please help me keep my job and everybody's like, man, yeah, I don't really care about you losing your job. Well, I mean, the only positive that I've seen so far with this, there's one band that just kind of merged out of nowhere. And I've been meaning to tell you guys about this. And I know you guys won't be into it because it's like so out there. But it's a they're from Quebec. It's like French Canadian, but their names like Andrew, Andrew and deep between. I don't even know how to pronounce it, but it's like these two guys. And they wear the most ridiculous outfits. So one of them has this huge, like hat in their polka dotted and they have this huge nose. And they play he plays like microtone. So it's like half notes. So the fretboard for like the guitar itself is like, he's playing kind of like notes in between notes. And so as a musician, you're sitting there and you're like, you just get sucked in hypnotized because it's like nothing I've ever heard before. It's like so weird. It's like a weird music, but it's like sometimes they hit these grooves and it just pulls you in. But I'm not the only one dude, there's like, look at how many millions of views they get. It's like it became like a viral sensation overnight. And it's like kind of jazz, it's kind of like, what do they call that type of a rock, but it's, it's like really unique kind of rock music. But it's, it's like the counter to AI. So they're going so off script that they're kind of inventing a new thing, which I think is pretty rad. I like artists too right now that I see that are emerging that are doing kind of in that same kind of vein, like creative stuff that's never been done before. And you see like, there's a couple of these like, you know, duos that I watch that will, they'll string a cup, they'll be playing like six different instruments and they'll overlay all of them and they'll make really cool music. Like I think that's, yeah, she like, he does like the foot pedals. And so does like delayed loops, you know that? But yeah, but also plays like a bass, so it's a bass neck and a guitar neck. And so does the bass parts, then does the guitar parts and then the drums is like, so clean. I have a prediction for what's what genre of music will be protected the most by AI. What worship music? Because the audience very, you can very much say you want the Holy Spirit in it, you want people singing it. And I think that'll protect worship. Oh, I totally disagree. More than other music. I think it's already that. Yeah, it's already happened. It's already happening. I'll send you something by that. Yeah, I know. But I think they'll be the most protected because what protects any other music? Do people really care? What? That's so, that's so left field to say that. What are you talking about? What I mean is, I don't think people can do it. You're talking to someone who likes music, like there's like, there's no like, part of what, why my mother, send that to me. Why my mother sent that to me. He's like, man, his music just speaks to you. Like that's like, there's something about music that that what I mean is, uh, by protected is I think the consumer, uh, you give it 15 years, isn't going to care if it's AI. They're just going to like the music. That's what I'm going to say. They're going to have to fully disclose. I'm surprised that that's not super visible. So that's what, so for him, that should be a lawsuit. Well, what's this is. So every bit of AI that I've listened to before, because I've listened to some AI stations and it's disclosed as AI. And I've also seen a lot of AI stuff get taken down. So if it's like, uh, were they like, some of the stuff doesn't mess with it. I know they'll, they'll take down like somebody who takes, uh, I've seen, there's a lot of viral stuff of like a two-pot done in jazz or something with that. And that stuff gets taken down. They don't laugh because you're really, you're ripping his song and you're, you're making it. But what they did with this artist is completely, it's completely new. It's a brand new person. It's a brand new music. It's brand new lyrics. It's kind of gray. It's like, yeah, there's, you're not, that's what I mean. I feel like in 15 years, like what genre are people going to demand real people make? Well, that, well, your, what your argument is weird though. Like why, why would, uh, why would people that, because I don't know if people will drive it necessarily. Like artists will kind of find a way to, to reach the audience. Like I think there'll be like a split. Like if you're just a general casual music person, you're not even, no difference. No one's gonna care. But like people that are into music and they want live performance and they want the, the, the stage, like, because it does, like you, you can feel emotion through like somebody playing it. Uh, and I, I mean, I'm sure we'll, we'll be trekked, you know, like, hey, I will be able to find a way to kind of put the right type of, uh, emphasis in there to add in a mode, a little bit further, but it's like, you know, to visually see it and then hear it, I think is going to be a different experience. Well, you'll see more of like the band you talked about, what I talked about, the duo, another guy that I love. Have you guys seen this, the Spanish kid? He's got long hair and he plays the guitar and he, and he does all kinds of stuff on this. Bro, insane. I think the live performance is going to have to be a lot of live. Yeah. There's, but what I don't like, they're, they're both here to stay. Yeah. There's, uh, I mean, I have to admit, like, I mean, if I knew it was AI, I didn't stop listening to it. It still evokes the words, the lyrics, the sound, the tones. It's all still really good. Now I wouldn't, I mean, I wouldn't go, uh, pay to go listen to an AI, I guess, concert or anything like that. And so I'd want to see a real artist. I would never like, so I'd pay, yeah, this kid right here. So have you seen him Doug before? I have. Yeah, you've shown him. He's so, I mean, if you guys don't, I mean, I fall. Playing in garages and stuff, like car garages. You know what's interesting is that, uh, the prediction was that art and music would be the last things that AI, uh, and it's a further scene from that. Some of the art that you see is so cool where they melded things. And so they're getting way better. So I have another theory too with education because, uh, if indeed it goes in this direction where, um, we have AI and it's able to do so much work for us, as long as you're directed or whatever, let's say, but let's say it does all this. I feel like education is going to move towards, uh, the, the, the arts or the areas that we thought weren't valuable, like philosophy, morality, uh, theology, because, uh, if science, technology, math, engineering, if that's largely AI just kind of being directed, I mean, that's a really, uh, optimistic. I thought, I think that's cool. It would be very cool if we start moving into philosophical conversations. Because where else would you get educated? Right? Oh, it's a good point. I mean, what, what do you think, if you think about it as a lot of the AI stuff and then where we're going technology wise are just super computers for a lot of things that we have. Masters of data. Like it's so like what, so what, we have that all outsourced. So what, we should spend our time thinking about other things that are deeper, like philosophical, psychological things. That would actually be, I mean, that's a very optimistic actually view of where this could go. It's just a theory. I mean, who knows, right? I mean, so it's not a bad theory. But I was thinking to myself like, okay, like let's say, uh, my youngest, you know, she's three. So she'd be getting into higher education and what is that 16 years maybe. Okay. If this goes in the direction where you have AI doing the, all the engineering, all the science and technology using the math, building things, all the stuff that we, for a long time, have thought that was, this is what you need to learn. What would humans, uh, want to, or what would they value education in? It'd be like philosophy, theology, uh, well, I mean, that's kind of, I mean, it's your points being proven right now with the rise of people interested in Christian music and church. And that's all, that's all in the right. I bet stoicism, I bet stoicism's on the rise also. That's true. I bet it is. I bet all, all these things that I think that it's forcing people into that direction. Which is, I mean, that's all good stuff. I mean, that's a, that's a very positive thing. Again, this is, this goes back to my theory of like the pendulum swinging thing. It's like, it's going to get a little ugly and nasty for a little bit for us all to learn. And then I think it wakes everybody up and then you start to move in that direction. And so I think it's a very optimistic way to look at it for sure. Speaking of science. So I, so trip off this. So you guys know Z-Botics and their, their product that they have that converts sugars into fiber. We talked about this, right? So, yeah, it's crazy. So, okay, this sounds crazy, right? But here's what it is. This is a, it's a probiotic. So Z-Botics makes it, this is a company that specializes in taking bacteria, beneficial bacteria, modifying this bacteria to do something interesting. So like their, their flagship product is a probiotic drink that you drink before you go have alcohol. And what it does is these bacteria, when you drink them, they go in your gut and they break down acetaldehyde, which is what, what some of the breakdown from alcohol turns into acetaldehyde. Now your liver detoxifies it, but some of it's released in your gut. And when that happens, it goes in your bloodstream, makes you feel like garbage. Okay. So this little bacteria breaks down the acetaldehyde in your gut. So that's their flagship. Then they came out with this sugar to fiber probiotic drink. And so what this is, is you take it once a day. It's a little packet of powder. You take it once a day and it sits in your gut and it's breaks down, it takes sugar, individual sugar molecules, and it connects them into long chains of fiber, soluble fiber. Okay. So I was like, I was on their website and I'm like, how much, like how much fiber is the limit on there? Yeah. Like what is this? Like how much, how much of it does it do? So in 30 days, in 30, if you use that every day for 30 days, it would convert 300 grams of sugar. So 10 grams of sugar a day, essentially, into 300 grams of fiber. It'd be like eating 94 pounds of almonds. So if you took this every single day over the course of a month, you would essentially create 300 grams of soluble fiber. Interesting. I want to try it. Bro, this is wild. I know. I'm glad you're going to take it now because I've been so curious about it. This is crazy science. I know how crazy their other stuff was. Remember when we first met them, they did the alcohol one first because they knew that would be the most marketable. It wasn't what they were most excited about. And that's blowing me away. Right. So I mean, we've talked about zibiotic forever and how crazy, and they want, they had way bigger plans for other stuff. It was just, they knew that was low hanging fruit, that the general pop would be all about. Well, some of them might be wondering what is the benefit of this? Why would I want to, I heard fibers good for me. What's the benefit? Better digestion, lower inflammation, reduced appetite. Like fiber produces more satiety. You should get better blood sugar because of the fiber. You should have more consistent energy instead of ups and downs because that's what soluble fiber. Better stool. Better poops. Yeah. Yeah. So Doug's the only one that's used it consistently. He says that he has better gut health. Yeah, I'm super. Well, let's all make a commitment to be consistent with it and see what happens. See what we all report back. I've been very curious. So I'm glad we've got it now for, Hey, did you see Doug pulled up the stoicism? Yeah, it was on the road. I increased by 400%. On some platforms, but I want to know what the time frame is. Because I remember it was definitely on the rise about six or seven years ago. When was it that we had? What's his name on the show? Oh, Ryan, Ryan Holiday. Was it Ryan Holiday? Yeah, Ryan Holiday. He kind of jumped the shark during your COVID. He did. Yeah. Yeah. Prior to that. Yeah. So I think it was before that when we saw the run. So I'm wondering if it's still, if it's still happening that way. But that's interesting. We'll see. But I mean, it's, I actually hadn't thought about what you said. And, you know, I tend to try to be as optimistic as I possibly can. And I think that's a very optimistic way to look at our future with where things are going. Because I know there's a lot of fear mongering going on with. Well, if you're thinking, doesn't need to go so directly to pragmatic skills. Yeah. We have a calculator for everything now. That's the greatest way to think of it in my opinion. It's just like, you have a calculator for almost everything now. Yeah. So now I can do more like deep thinking type stuff that isn't so pragmatic. Because all that pragmatic stuff is taken care of by my AI that I tell to, you know, do this, that and the other, you know, which might actually be a good thing. Yeah. Might actually make people better. I mean, ideally, you'd want those both to coexist, right? So you get the bit of the more breaks, you know, with the detriment to it. But maybe we don't get there. And then that's the optimism where it's like, okay, well, now we can just focus on why, you know, instead of can we like, should we? Well, I also think if you start going deep down the theological and philosophical rabbit hole, you people will choose to do things, do hard things and choose, even though they have the resources and the tools and it'll make better people. Yeah, like exactly. It's just like, Oh, I know I could outsource this thing, but I'm going to choose to go do this thing because I know the value. Yeah, right. I know the value of it. Meaning will feel a lot more powerful. It'll be a kind of a cool, interesting thought about that. I have a, did I tell you guys the Florida man? I love that. Isn't Florida man? Use articles. I gotta do is look up yet an article that like, whatever date, like is your birthday? I heard somebody talk about Florida man and Florida man and then there'll be some crazy something happened. What say Florida man and then your birthday or birthday? Oh, that's hilarious. I just look it up and see what happened. Let's do all of our let's do all of ours. Do everybody's birthday Florida man and then your birth, all of our birthdays and see what happens. That's actually do yours. And then that should you is it bad to say your birthday on air? Well, you don't have to say your, you don't have to say the whole year. Is it just the day? Just the month and day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So here's Doug, Florida man, June 23rd involved the 29 year old who was arrested and charged with simple assault for punching Philadelphia Eagles tight. The Philadelphia Eagles tight in that's hilarious. Try it with that Adams November, November 16th, Florida man, November 16th. This is hilarious. I've never heard of this. Let's see. Several Florida man is that have occurred several for November 16th. We're a man fired a gun during an argument about chicken eggs. 2023 arrested unauthorized massage at a rehab center. Massage 2017 to rest for harming a dog with a firecracker. Let's do it. Mine says Florida man, February, so far I think Adams is the better one. Florida man dressed in Dalmatian onesie outruns troopers. Oh, that's the best one. That's the best one. Florida man dressed in Dalmatian onesie outruns troopers. That is epic. That's good. All right. January 26th. Dude, Justin's. So I went. So my birthday. Yeah, you're winning so far. It's 76 year old Jack'sville man was arrested to six years in prison for sexual exploitation. Oh, that's terrible. I wouldn't know the dark path down. Justin. Man was pointed after putting the laser at a man to Manatee County Sheriff's Office helicopter. Yeah. I guess mine was the best one. Yeah, bro. Dalmatian onesie outruns straight two places. Yeah. So read this story. This story was, I read this on my birthday. That was kind of true. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. So this was funny. I'm going to read this story to you. If Florida man was found sunburned and disoriented on a causeway claiming he was kidnapped by dolphins and forced to build an underwater city. Lee County Sheriff's deputies responded to the Sanibel causeway early Monday after a motorist reported a man standing on the shoulder soaking wet and drawing blueprints in the sand according to the police report. Ricky James, uh, Hollawell 33 was found barefoot severely sunburned and wearing only swim trucks. He told deputies that he had been taken against his will by a pod of dolphins three days ago and forced to work on what he called an underwater construction project. He claims the dolphins approached him while he was swimming off Fort Myers Beach and escorted him to a site approximately 40 feet below the surface where they needed help building structures. He said that the dolphins communicated through a series of clicks that he eventually learned to interpret and the project foreman all this was a blowhole and a project foreman was a dolphin that was called Gerald he said, Hey, listen, when he asked, how did you breathe underwater for three days? He said, Gerald handled that. I didn't ask questions. You don't question Gerald. Bro, dude, no, I had to be meth. Hey, this is he had drawn an elaborate blueprint in the sand. The deputy said, whereas detailed enough to be concerning if there was condos of town square recreation center, bro, look at the guy's picture, dude. Oh my God. He's like all sunburned. What if he's never questioned Gerald? What if you, what if he's on the truth? You know what I mean? Like nobody ever believes me. No, dude. He's actually under there. Yeah. Yeah. The humans won't believe me. No, tell the humans. Oh, I got so good. I got a sun, a sun exposure study. See if I can find it. I don't know if you guys saw this on X. It was a, it's making its rounds, but it was a study on, I got to find it. Hope it's good for us. I've been doing a lot of, no, it's really good. Give me a second because I'm going to find this up, find this, but let me see. Sun exposure. Well, it sucks. Can't find it. Can I? Well, I'll tell you what I think the study said. Women who got more sun exposure were less likely to die of all cause mortality in this particular study. Why just women? Because it was a study done on women. Don, look up this study. Oh, there it is. 2014 study of 29,518 Swedish women. Good job, Doug. Found that avoiding sun exposure is a risk factor for all cause mortality. Yeah. So mortality rates doubled in those who avoided the sun compared to those who had the highest exposure. Active sunbathers live longer and had lower risks of cardiovascular disease and non-cancer deaths. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? I feel like we've been scared away from the sun, you know, just with all this like cancer and melanoma and. Yeah, dude. Well, just so weird. I think at least for me personally, it's like, I feel a huge difference when I get out. I feel like I'm charged up. I feel so different, dude. I sleep, I sleep better. I feel, I have more energy throughout that day. Just, I feel so much better. Yeah. And now part of this is like, did they control for people who are maybe ill, who weren't out in the sun or whatever? I'd like to see. Remember during COVID when they told us not to get out in the sun? I remember. I remember. What a weird. Well, when I had COVID, all I did was go out on my porch and sit, in the chair and like, if you're sick, stay inside. Don't even go outside by yourself. Yeah. What? The biggest offender was the guy like out on his surfboard away from the rest of him. Hey, they arrested him. That's what I knew. Everything was nonsense. Yeah. Do you guys think that that whole period of time, I have a theory, because it was so crazy COVID was so crazy. The advice and what they told us was so obviously everybody can look back now and go, that was all crazy. Everything they said was crazy. Rational people can do that. I think, I think most people now, they just listened. Did you guys know that the, I see a lot of masquerades. They just halted. I still see some people. I do too. I know. We're in the Bay area though. I just saw that they're stopping a COVID, the COVID vaccine for their studies because they couldn't get enough participants. Nobody wants to take the COVID jab. So I think, I have a theory. Word got out. It's a conspiracy theory. Okay. So everybody calm down. Which just means truth. Maybe. Yeah. We're like, we're like 10 and no right now. I was going to say, which would 10 and no, I tell you guys got me on the team. I feel like, I feel like that whole period of time was not to see who they could control and all that stuff. That's what people thought at the time. I wonder if it was just for them to just cause later on complete distrust in all establishments. Oh, I don't. Practice for energy lockdowns. I mean, I look at the stuff that I just can't, I can't wrap my brain around. What has happened with the Epstein files and how much we just like, I don't think there's anything more evil, bad and egregious than, than that whole mess. And yeah, we still talking about this. So mad. Like Trump said that. I mean, I mean, that's just, I mean, we're, I mean, what, what would get us to rally together? We're too comfortable. I mean, yeah, I just, you know, comfortable. I mean, what could be more evil than that? Yeah, what's more evil than, than harming children like that? Doug, look up exactly term bread and circus. Do you guys know where that comes from? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's an old term. He entertained and in Fed and Fed. Yeah. It's a, it, this is refers to the Roman political strategy of pacifism. It's what the, it's what the Coliseum was all about with free food and entertainment to ensure loyalty. Right. That's what that's why the Coliseum was built was to do exactly that. Now you have the UFC fighting at the White House. This is, this is coined by the poet juvenile around 80, 100. It describes how citizens traded their political freedoms for sustenance and spectacles. Yep. Isn't that, isn't that weird? How we like, this is, it was so true then still so true now. I just want to point out too though that because we, I know we've avoided a lot of political talk on this thing though, that, that a lot of people used to think that we are this like conservative type of podcast and I don't think anybody in here is pro Trump at all anymore. I think everybody knows he's compromised and I'm not a fan of any that stuff. So, you know, for all the, the, the libtards that used to think that we were just these, that we're doing at them. Good job. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's me. That would, that thought that were these hardcore conservatives, no, no, they were logical thinkers have always been that way. Always called it as it is. And I think what we've seen Trump do in the last year and a half or so is a lot of things. Yeah. Just check whoever's in power, man. And it's, yeah, there is no, there is no left or right. It's, it's literally like they're, they're, it's all one. It's, it's the same bullshit and the Epstein thing is makes that so clear and obvious and it's crazy that I just I'm blown away that that's, that wasn't, I mean, I think that's a bigger deal than COVID was. COVID it was, was crazy and scared a lot of people and there was a lot of uncertainty and they did gaslight all of us, but it's like Epstein is just pure evil and bad. And it's like, we're not throwing anybody in prison. We're not up in arms about that. Like we're not pissed off at our entire government. We're all still paying our taxes and showing up like, that's just people are comfortable. I mean, what, I mean, what, what level, what level, what else has to triple the cost of gas? You'll see people. I'm serious. You make gas go up three or four times. You make everybody broke and then you'll see people up in arms. I mean, they're already heading that way. Yeah. But you make it like bad, like people are broke, broke. Then you'll see, you'll see people. Yeah, really pissed off. That's crazy. Butcher box is a company that delivers grass fed meat, heritage pork, wild caught fish, to your door at great prices. So you could save money, get really high quality sources of protein that are healthy and clean, sustainably raised grass fed meat, better fatty acid profile, wild caught fish, lower amounts of toxins, heritage pork. It just tastes a lot better and it's raised in a better way. By the way, if you go to butcher box.com forward slash mine pump right now until the 18th of May, new users will get your choice between chicken breast for a year included in your box for free tarp sirloin for a year or ground beef included for the life of your membership plus $20 off. Go to butcher box.com forward slash mine pump back to the show. Our first caller is Amelia from Colorado. Hi Amelia. How are you doing? Hi. Good to see you guys again. How are you guys? You too. How you been? Pretty good. Thank you guys for taking my question. Yeah, cool. How can we help you? Of course. Update us. I'm just going to read what I wrote because I tend to ramble. So 22 year old dancer, I've had to take a gap year off from college to heal from Lyme disease and want to use this time off to build muscle. I attempted a bulk and stopped dancing in August of 2025 with a coach, but I didn't make it be progress. And I think it's due to some underlying fears and maybe even the health issues themselves. I'm not sure if you guys have worked with any Lyme patients. I need to bulk for health reasons. I think my low body fat percentage is contributing to a lack of period hypothyroidism and possibly exacerbating the Lyme disease symptoms. I want to bulk, but I feel like I need a professional to validate what I'm doing and guide me making sure that I'm headed in the right direction. And I know that I need to gain body fat, but I also want to put a substantial amount of muscle on considering I think I have a missing button that my stomach kind of looks distended. And I've been in a cut or maintenance ever since I started lifting five years ago. And I've tried chasing strength, but I tend to add too much weight to the bar and break form, especially with my hyper mobility. I've learned that I shouldn't be going full range of motion. Those were like more my immediate goals, but long term goals are to be more intuitive when it comes to my body's needs, switch training and nutrition, depending on what phase I'm light, what phase of life I'm in. Because right now I have a rigid schedule where like first thing when I wake up, I go to the gym because if I don't throughout the day, there's this like nagging voice in my head that's like, you need to go to the gym, you need to go to the gym. And like, I've had doctors kind of tell me that maybe I should work out later in the day because first thing in the morning might be too much for my nervous system. And then I want to have a good amount of muscle and perform with strength and power in the gym as well as in dance since that's what I love to do and want to do for a living. I want to be able to use tracking as a tool to meet my goals and not advice. I'm scared to stop tracking because I don't ever feel fullness cues. And I want a healthy relationship with food and exercise, which is somewhat difficult considering the job of a dancer is to look good. I have fears around sitting still and getting fat and becoming the unhealthy classic American. So I walk in unsustainable amount like it's a lot. And I want to continue to walk but not in a neurotic controlling fashion if you couldn't tell the theme of all of this. And currently I'm running maps muscle mommy 15. I'm doing each phase six to eight weeks to acclimate to the exercises. I'm currently in phase two week four. I walk for one hour in the morning after breakfast, one hour in the afternoon after lunch. And according to my ordering, I get anywhere from 10,000 to 20,000 steps a day, seven hours of sleep, I eat 3000 calories around 30% protein, 40% carbs and 30% fat. So that was my entire essay and yeah. Amelia, you eat 3000 calories every day. Yeah. And you're sitting at 10% body fat. According to this DEXA scan. Yeah. I'm looking at your picture. You are. Yes, you are super lean. 3000 calories a decent amount. Yeah. That's not that's not bad. I think it's because I walk so much because I'm like scared to be sedentary or do you think the walking isn't okay. So on the surface, that's not a problem. You have a healthy metabolism. Yeah. It's not a problem on the surface. The issue is the root of where it's coming from. So if you were just like, Hey, I walking and it's great and it's leisure and I enjoy it. It's not an issue, but you said a couple of things that were red flags, like I walk neurotically. I can't sit still. I have to work out or I'm thinking about it all the time. Yeah. So on paper, you're not doing anything wrong. You're eating enough food, you're following good strength training. Your steps are fine. You're getting good sleep. But the, the, what's behind all of that is what we need to work on. And I mean, your best bet, honestly, through this process is going to be step one is going to be to outsource control. And that's going to be the step towards not having, not feeling like you need to control so much. I mean, I could tell you what this looks like, but I think you need to work with a coach. For like six months. So you can outsource it and get used to letting go of control. In other words, you're going to be like, you do what I, you, I'll do what you tell me. And I'm just going to do that. So that's like a, that's an easier step to take than just letting go of control because you probably don't know how to do that without first outsourcing it. And so you're going to get comfortable without sourcing it first. And then after that, then you'll find a little bit of freedom in that. And then that'll kind of change the approach or why you're doing what you do. Well, remind me the difference of what you're doing now versus what you were in back in April, 2020. I just saw the pictures, the difference of the three stages. So I think back then I was running, I think it was like MAPS muscle mommy or something like, like I've always stuck with your guys's programming. So I did, I had a coach for a bit who did like similar programming because they, they did listen to your show. So similar programming, but I just like, yeah, I, I, that's why it was like, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Like obviously, there's the sector of the control issues and that stuff, but I was like, I'm, I had a coach who listened to you guys. So I know that they were not leading me in the wrong direction. So, no, I'm asking because I think you look way healthier and better right now than you did back in April. That's the difference I'm trying to get to is like, are you eating more now? Yeah, are you eating more calories now? Or what are you doing different? No, do you see yourself as better now? Because I think you look way better and healthier. Yeah. Oh, I feel like I just look the same throughout everything. Yeah, zoom in for the guys so they can see. Yeah. Go to the top. That's like, that's her then. Now she'll go to the top. Go top. Yeah, you're fitting healthy, hun. Go to the top. I'm trying to, Adam. Yeah. Yeah, I see. Yeah. Okay, so, so let me give you some tips on what might help with some of this. Okay. I think it's a good idea to have some structured time where you're sitting and doing nothing. And it's probably going to be really scary for you. So, it's sorry, something to add to the like, sitting and not doing anything. I don't know if this is related. But if I sit for too long, my back, like, I'll get severe pain or like, being still, I get severe pain. Yeah, you're probably not, you're probably sitting in an anxious way or not breathing fully. So you know what a full diaphragmatic breath feels like? Yeah, I've been like working on breathing with my diaphragm and whatnot. So let's, so that might be a good place to start. Yeah. So you could set your timer on your phone, put an alarm for 10 minutes, and then sit for 10 minutes and just breathe into your belly, where you feel your belly rise before your chest, full diaphragmatic breathing while you're sitting. So what can happen for some people, it's not common, but people are like, I don't like to sit still, is when they're sitting, they're tense. Yep. And they're chest breathing. It's restrictive. And so then they start to feel back pain as a result of it. So that might be a good practice for you to sit for 10 minutes or five minutes if 10 minutes is too long, because that's a long time for someone who doesn't like to sit. I'm going to tell you right now, 10 minutes of diaphragmatic breathing, you're going to want to pull your hair out. So you sit there and you diaphragmatically breathe. And then the next step would be finding things that you enjoy that you can do while you're sitting down that don't relate to a specific goal that you have. Because sometimes people will be like, Oh, cool. I'm going to sit down and I'm going to like map out my diet, or I'm going to like do this class that I need to do where I'm going to like better myself with this book that's going to make me so smart. So you want to think of something that's like leisure that you could do while sitting down. Have you ever tried to paint, puzzle, legos? I was going to say, I do painting. I still get the pain though, and I'll have to take breaks. I don't know if it has to do with the hypermobility. I also know my hip flexors. I've seen various PT people and they've had me do the Thomas test, which I'm sure you're familiar with, like laying back. And my leg is literally like this. How do you? How are you painting? How are you sitting? I tend to like sit on the floor or I'll sit in a chair with my legs up. Okay. All right. So, okay. So hypermobile people will sit in some of the most interesting contorted positions. Yeah. So you know what you're going to do? You're going to sit in a regular chair. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just a regular old chair. Back support. Yeah. You don't want to rest. You don't want to rest and range his emotion because of your hypermobility. So you want to sit like an old guy in a chair. Yeah. And then just paint and do the diaphragmatic breathing like that. That'll help. Okay. Yeah. I'll try. I've been doing some of that. I guess just like not long enough. But yeah, I don't know. I, you say, I probably look healthier in the photos. I'm just like, I feel like I haven't put on any muscle or... You look like you did. Done anything. You look healthier. You've got good muscle on your body, hun. Your top picture looks to healthier instead of all the things. I think some of the stuff that you're feeling is the internal high level of anxiety that's kind of below the surface. And that is a stress. That is a stress on the body. Again, if I looked at all the stuff you're doing on paper, I'm like, man, she's doing all the right stuff. Just distorting your perception for sure. But what's underneath it. I heard this example given before, like a swan. Like a swan on water. Looks like they're just cruising real nice. But if you look under the water, their feet are like going crazy. Yeah. So if you, if that resonates with you, it's what's underneath all the actions. And so practicing, like letting go, breathing, like all the uncomfortable stuff for you, sitting in a normal chair and painting, that, you know, those will be good practices for you. And outsourcing is always a good idea to do with a coach who can kind of move you through this whole process. But your calories are good, your activities. I mean, you're only doing maps, or maps program and walking, you're not doing any other exercise. Correct. Yeah. I mean, that's great. Yeah. And 3000 calories. You're doing really good on all those things. It just sounds like you need more things that really relax you that you like to do. And so I don't know if you've pursued different things other than just paint, because I think painting would be great. I think painting is a great example of that, you know, and puzzling. I get it from driving. Like, I mean, things that where you can just be kind of focused on the thing and everything that all the other noise kind of goes away and you're just into it. Do you have a spiritual practice or do you meditate? Yeah, I'm Catholic. So, yeah. Oh, sit and pray. Sit and pray. Nothing gets you out of your head better than doing that. Yeah, the sign that I think like, I mean, I tend to pray on my walks, but I think the sign that I need to do it is that you saying like, oh, sit down for a while, like car drives give me anxiety because I have to sit for a while. And like in the back of my head is like, oh, this is so unhealthy because you're sitting in your sedentary. No, no, no, no. One of the hallmarks of anxiety is self focus. So one of the best just the data shows us one of the best ways to have to combat that is a spiritual practice because the focus is not on you or find a way to go serve others. Yes, sir. Serving others. I mean, that's the same thing. Volunteer and do stuff like that. Yeah, you just need something that gets you out of your own head that self focused, you know, so keep pursuing practice like that. I love the painting, just we don't want to do it in a crazy sit and sit. Yeah, I mean, you're doing everything like really well. But yeah, you look super healthy. Yeah, you're following the right instructions, you're doing the right actions. It's just what's underneath it. Yeah, and if you if you want to work with a coach, we have great ones that could have someone reach out to you. Yeah, it's said you talked to Corinne before, right? Yeah, I talked to Corinne. She is like, so amazing. She's so nice. Yeah, I think I'd be open to that. I mean, obviously, it would depend on the price because like with the Lyme treatments, it's gotten kind of expensive. But yeah, I just want peace, honestly, like obviously, I'm like, I want a butt because I feel like I don't have a butt. And I want to be able to perform great because you know, athleticism and dancing. We saw the picture. Yeah, you're doing fine. Yeah, yeah. I hope so. But at the end of the day, I just want peace. So if what you're saying, you know, is gonna, you would do really good at like seeing just Corinne like once a month even just to just to check in with her just to keep an eye on what you got going on and stuff like that. And I'll tell you just to encourage you at your age with what you're talking about, you're you're like so far ahead over a lot of young ladies are you're doing you're you're on the right path. And I think the struggle is just recognizing that you're not on the right that you're like that you need to move in a different direction. So just to encourage you like you're you're doing good. This is a tough time for you, but you're doing really well. Okay, thank you so much. That's encouraging. But yeah, it's just kind of hard to get out of my head. I don't know if you have time for me to like semi side question. Yeah, go for it. Let's go. Um, I've had recent like shoulder pain under my scapula ish and it's exacerbated by holding the bar with RDLs or rowing or like any scapular movements. And I've been trying to figure out why that is and it sometimes when I bench it'll refer to the front of my collarbone. So I I'm not sure what it is. I also have hypermobile shoulders like it can pop and stuff. So do you know how to scapular push ups? Yeah. Yeah, I do. But like my shoulder blade, I don't know if you could see that swinging. Yes. Yeah. So you know how to do you know how to flatten it? I try and it just keeps winging. Okay, so practice try to practice flattening it. Watch bodybuilding videos on how to do a front lat spread. Okay, how to do a front lat spread? Because that movement is scapula flattening out. And so that's what you want. That's what you want to work on. Yeah, I'm trying to do it right now and it just keeps winging. So yeah, practice and you can put yourself up against the wall and relax and allow the wall to press your scapula into that flatten position and then see if you can tense and hold it there. Okay, I'll try that. Thank you. Yeah, you got it. You got it. No problem. Thanks for calling me again. If you want to call in again, have any other questions, let us know. But I think you're doing well, hon. It's a focus on the things that get you out of the focus on yourself. So don't just say I'm not going to focus on myself. It's impossible. But what can I focus on that's outside of myself? So prayer, serving others, painting, don't sit in crazy positions. I think that's a great place to start. Okay, I'll do that. Thank you guys so much. And it's like, I just needed the reinforcement from y'all because I look up to you guys so much. And it's like, I don't know, I had a feeling I was doing the right stuff. But it, like I said, I just feel like I need people who are experienced to help encourage me. You're doing great. You're doing great. Just keep pursuing things that are other focus, keep pursuing those types of things, you know, try different stuff until you still something hits that you really like. I will try it. All right, good to see you again. Good to see you. Thank you guys so much. All right. All right. Yeah, sweetheart. That's tough. But it's great. It's 3000 calories. Like she's doing all the right stuff. Yeah. It's all her mental chatter. Totally, bro. She's super anxious about it. And, and then I'm glad I asked her how she sits because I've had a couple clients with hyper mobility. Yeah. And they will sit in what looks like a crazy stretch. I know. I laugh because I've seen the same thing. I'm like, what are you doing? But yeah, it's just, it's a weird thing. She just needs to keep looking for those things, right? There's, there's got to be something else out there. Like I said, like the puzzling, the Lego thing, the getting into something that we're just everything else fades away and you're hyper into that. You're not thinking about yourself. Yeah. Our next caller is Taylor from Ohio. Taylor. Hello. Hey guys. Oh my gosh. This is kind of surreal. Just to keep it simple. I'll go ahead and read right off my email. Okay. Hey guys, I've been an avid listener for six years. I listen to your podcasts, every chance I get during my lifts, all my runs, any free car audio time I get between song requests for my kids. I get so much value from your content, frequently send episodes to my family, friends and clients. You've changed the game for me as a fitness professional and mom in my own fitness journey. So thank you. I'm a 34 year old mom of three little boys, six and under. I've been strength training for years and run maps programs on and off between pregnancies. And now after recently, I started running more consistently between two to three times per week. And I realized how much I love it, mostly from the mental health side of things. I'm currently training for a half marathon in April. I also still strength training two to three times a week and currently running anabolic. My runs consist of one easy run about two, three to four miles, one tempo run and one long run for some mileage building. I eat around 23 to 2400 calories. I hit my protein goal of anywhere from 150 to 170 daily. I feel relatively recovered and no overtraining symptoms, but I don't want to end up in that place long term. My question is about balancing endurance training with maintaining muscle and strength. Strength training has always been a big part of my life and I don't want to lose muscle mass as I start pursuing endurance goals. I'd really love to train for one, maybe two half marathons per year, one in the spring, one in the fall. I'm a former division one athlete and I really thrive and enjoy when I have a performance goal to chase. It helps me feel like myself, especially in the stage of life as a mom with little boys. When I can prioritize my own health and fitness, I feel like my cup is full to pour into them, be a better mom, wife and friend. I would love your advice for someone like me who wants to pursue endurance goals while still prioritizing strength, muscle and long-term health. Would you suggest periodizing the training, like only running during a true running training block, pre-race and then solely focusing on strength training outside of that? Are there any programs you'd recommend that would balance my load and goals? Yeah, good. So, okay, so there's a couple ways you could approach this. By the way, I think your calories are probably a little low. I'm just gonna say, the only thing I'd really change is that and maybe scaling back one day of training. Yeah. Because the three runs are not even an hour, right? Yeah. I mean, well, my long runs, as they've gotten longer, as I get closer to race day, there can be up to two. Okay. So, but the other two, what are the other two runs though? The other two run? They're under an hour. Okay. Yeah. So, one's easy and one's like some interval training, some speed work. Yes. It's kind of mild. Yeah. And you're training for a half marathon right now, right? Yeah. Okay. So, your calories are probably a little low for the kind of training that you're doing. So, I would increase those by about 300 and you should notice some performance improvements. Long term, there's a couple ways you could approach this because it sounds like you love both. It sounds like you love the strength training, but you also love running, which is great. So, couple of ways we could do this. One kind of general split for somebody, especially like yourself, athlete, athletic past, fit, healthy, probably, you know, obviously you've got some good athletic genetics. You have four days in the week that you can work out and you can use those for strength training or running. It's up to you how you split them. So, that's one approach. So, you could do one day of strength training, three days of running, three days of strength training, one day of running, or two and two, totally up to you. But what you can't do is go five, six days a week, you know, type of deal. Most people just long-term, that's just too much, especially if you have a life outside of working out. The second option is to strength train one week and then do endurance training the other week. I've heard you're doing that right now, aren't you? To an extent. Now, it's not athletic. I don't know if I'd call his cardio endurance training yet. Yeah, mine is more. He made the three today on the treadmill. Mine is less about athletic performance and more something else. That being said, when you look at the data around athletic performance, it seems to be a great approach. And for some people, I can see why they would prefer that because I cool, this week I'm focusing on strength training. Next week I'm focusing on endurance and it makes it keeps it more fun. Psychologically too. It's beneficial that regard. Yeah. So, those would be your two general approaches. Now, you can mess that up in between, right? You could do too much intensity on all of them or whatever. But generally speaking, that would be a really nice kind of long-term approach. And then if you're approaching a contest, like a marathon or half marathon, then you change your training, obviously to move more towards endurance and away from strength. I really like his first suggestion, which is like, looking at your week is like, you've got four days of training. You know, when you're in run mode and you're really getting close to, you know, your half marathon or whatever, you're scaling that mostly running and you're probably only weight training one day a week. When you're somewhere in the middle of that training block, you're probably split down the middle when you're in the off season of running and you can pick up more higher volume of training than you're maybe lifting weights three times a week and you only have a leisurely one run, one week. And I think toggling back and using your experience and how well you probably know kind of your body and training that that's kind of your boundaries is four days a week of this type of training and you use it according to what's more important because you're getting ready for a run. And so, hey, you need more running than drop. Don't be a for, I think the biggest thing with trainers and athletic people have been doing this for a long time is this fear that if you go down to this one day of strength training, that you're going to lose all these muscle gains. You won't. In fact, you're more likely to lose those muscle gains if you try and do all that running and also do two or three days of strength training. Because then that's just way too much. You're going to be constantly in this recovery state. You're not going to adapt and build your body. He's going to pare down that muscle. And so you're more likely to save most of the muscle just kind of hitting it one time a week. Yeah. I mean, the things will change based on the performance adaptations you're looking for, but how whatever that change looks like, whether it's more muscle, less endurance or more endurance, less muscle, you could switch it back in the other direction very easily. Yeah. And quick. If you did lose a few pounds of muscle, because now you're going endurance focused, you'd gain it back so fast. It's not a big deal at all. This is the hybrid approach. Pretty quick. But the big thing I would say for you is bump your calories by at least two or three hundred. And you should notice an increase in endurance, stamina, strength, the whole deal. Awesome. That sounds easy enough. You can do that. The anabolic is a good place since I can do two days or three days with that and kind of undulate that as needed. Matt's anabolic is good. So it's mass performance. Yeah. Performance and just picking one of the foundational days would be great. Even symmetry would be good at some point. Those three programs. Do you have all those programs that we mentioned? Symmetry definitely. I don't have symmetry. Let's send it to you. Yeah. I really, what I love about performance though is that you pick a foundational day there. One, it's got a lot more multi-planar unilateral type of work in there. And then in addition to that, you have, having the background that you have, listen to your body. If this is a week where you're just like, man, I'm filling tax, choose a mobility day and do mobility work. And so, and that's in that program already. So just follow. Like that's how I, if I was coaching myself through what you're trying to do, I'd have this kind of blueprint of scaffolding like Sal saying is like, all right, I'm going to train, train, train two days a week. I'm going to run two days a week. That's the plan. Reality is sometimes you're going to be feeling under the weather. Sometimes you're not, you're going to feel like a little wore down because not the greatest asleep. You got kids, you got stuff going on. And then I'm going to go, you know what, I'm going to back off one of those strength training days. I'm just going to do a mobility day today. And so I like that. Taylor, I just, I just caught something that I missed too, by the way. I mean, you're a group fitness instructor. How many classes do you teach a week? So in putting that in there, I'm not actually doing it with them. I'm more like coaching them through it. So I'm not, that's not added. Okay, good. Okay. We're fine then. I still think you need to bump your calories. Yeah. To Adam's point earlier though, about performance, I think that living in phase two of that for the foundation days is going to benefit you better. Yeah. Phase two. So you can really kind of reinforce. Yeah. A lot of those supporting muscles. And just so you know, somebody like you fit healthy, consistent working out, whatever, with that kind of working out in my experience, when everything's working well, they will typically consume closer to 27, 2800 calories. So I gave you a bump of two to 300, but I think you'd still be able to bump it after that and you didn't get even better. Don't be afraid of it is what I'm saying. Don't be afraid of increasing the calories. Because I think right now you're probably eating just enough. Yeah. And so it's probably holding back some of your performance. You're going to feel a difference. Yeah. Would you put it towards carbohydrates for where would you? Your protein is great. So what was your fat? I don't remember. It's probably around 30% right now. So what is that? What is that grams? Someone like you, I like your grams to be over 70. So if you're not at 70, I'd bump fats. Otherwise, go the carbohydrate. Otherwise, and steer your carbs around the runs. So I like it, you know, pre hour before your run or what do I do? And then when you get done with it, replenish. That's right. That'll do good. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you guys so much. I've just, you guys have just been awesome for lots of stages of life for me. And I send all your stuff to my mom. I've actually tried to get her to put a, put a question in and hop on with you guys too. So she might be getting on soon and she was really excited. That would be great. I appreciate it. Quite an honor. Taylor, did she follow any of our programs? My mom. Yeah. I've had, I've tried to get her to do anabolic. She's, she's run it a couple of times in the last couple years. Oh, good. Okay. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. All right. Perfect. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right, Taylor. You got it. Have a good. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. She's doing good. Yeah. She's doing the calories. Yep. Yeah. She could handle more that, that amount of training. She could easily be up calories. It's remarkable how often people, people who exercise regularly, especially women, but this happens to guys who, they just don't eat enough for the performance they're looking for. Well, look, we just got off a call with a girl right before her. I think was five, seven or five, eight, yeah. Similar height, uh, similar, similar weight, um, walking only, not even running, just 10,000 steps and is eating 3000. 3000. Yeah. You know, so it's, uh, but I mean, how many times have you had a client like this where all you do is increase their colors and boom. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Makes a massive difference. Our next color is Lauren from Arizona. Hey, Lauren. Hey, Lauren. Back to back days. We get to see you. I know. Long time no see. How can we help you? Um, well, well, thanks for having me on. Yeah. Of course. I, um, just so I'm not like, let's upload and ramble on here. I'm going to pull out my email because, of course, I would just get to talking with you guys. I love the reference. That was good. I know. Just did. I knew you'd get it. Okay. Hi, mind, um, thanks for all you do. You have changed my life in so many ways, bringing many blessings to my family. I wish I could express my gratitude and immense healing this show and your teachings abroad. I'm a married 35 year old mom of two wild boys, a five year old and a soon to be two year old. I have been in the muscle mommy movement crew since the beginning and I am incredibly grateful for the amazing coaches Corinne and Nicole, also credit to Alyssa in the beginning too. The pod and this group of ladies have been truly so healing and made me realize I wanted to pursue a personal training career. I've been on my own health and fitness journey since March, 2025, but this time I'm approaching it from a place of self love, ditching long distance running and starvation to properly feel my body and lift heavy shit. I've lost 62 pounds and gained significant muscle and a greater mindset. I'm working towards becoming a personal trainer, but I also feel my body isn't what it should be to teach others. I technically have 38 more pounds to lose if we are talking about the goal weight. I know I'm strong and capable, but the imposter syndrome other callers mentioned is very real. I guess I'm just fearful that if I show up to a big box gym, they will scoff at me because I'm overweight and don't fit the typical image of a personal trainer. Nicole Wolfe, uh, remind me that my journey in past history would be my strengths for better empathizing with and relating to clients. I guess I'm just scared they won't give me the opportunity. Should I continue my journey and lose more weight before going for it? Or should I just take the plunge and hold my head up? I think I know the answer, but my ED brain seems to be very loud right now. Keep killing it. Love you guys. Thank you for your guidance. That was a bad ED day. Whew. Sorry. Wow. I haven't read that in a while. No, that's good. Yeah, that was rough. I do have some updates. Yes, let's go. All right. Let's go. So I did hold my head up and actually went for it. I, um, I wrote you guys like an hour after I passed my NASM CPT exam. Yeah. Nice. Got certified that day and then was like, Oh, shit, you did it. Oh no. Now you have to do it. My road, obviously, since I wrote you. Um, so I applied to gyms. I had, I applied to three gyms in my proximity and had two interviews. Uh, one, they offered me the job right there. The other one, uh, ghosted me. I felt like I was in my twenties dating again or something waiting on it all. It was funny. Um, but so obviously a little bit different from when I first wrote you guys, but I did go for it. Um, I did turn down that job offer the gyms. Why did you turn it down? Uh, honestly, it felt really sleazy. There were red flags. It was like Danger Will Robinson Danger a couple of times. Um, we did the like a mock pitch, uh, sales pitch, uh, which was fine. I'm used to that. I was in sales or I am in sales have been for a long time. So it was fine where he was basically potential new client gave me the rundown like, Oh, I'm brand new to this. So, and so on. So I went into it like, Hey, I think it'd be good to start you off two to three days a week. I think that'd be a good way to start. And he's like, I'm going to stop you right there. We do five days here. Like, so zero to 60. I feel like that would inevitably lead to failure. And he's like, we do five days. Like, mm, so that felt cringy. The other one, it felt like an amazing interview. Um, but, and I, it was green flags everywhere and actually had mine pump like philosophies constantly sprinkled in there. Asked him if he knew you guys, um, was aware of the podcast and he didn't like do, but yeah. So that's how that went. Okay. Well, good. Good job. Yeah. Yeah. Getting out there. Um, and I'm going to tell you something. So, uh, and there's, oftentimes what happens, well, let me ask you this question. This is my help. You worked with, uh, Corinne Nicole and in early days, Alyssa, right? Correct. Yeah. What made them good coaches for you? Um, I mean, well, I'll give you a great example for Nicole. She's been there this entire time, like with this process. I even interviewed her, interviewed her back in October, just because I wanted her story. I know the logistics of becoming a trainer, but she's been along with the process. So, and she's been invested in this and reaching out to me like, Hey, how's it going? So she takes the time out and it feels like she actually cares, which makes a great coach trainer. I've had bad ones where clearly you didn't matter to them at all. And so all of those girls, I feel like are so invested and yeah, the aesthetics don't matter. Like I don't think about their bodies, obviously. It's our relationship. You knew exactly where I was going. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't say anything about how they looked. Yeah. So, um, it really doesn't matter. Now in the beginning, it may to some people, uh, because when we think fitness, we think of how we look. So someone may look at someone and say, I want to look like that person. I'm going to work with them or this happens actually very often. They look at a train and they go, I think they might get me. Um, and then they end up working with them. So I've had trainers of all shapes and sizes, all of them per, all of them value fitness. Obviously you can't be a trainer if it's not valuable to you. Uh, and I've had trainers who were shredded. I've had trainers who were body builders. I've had trades who recently lost a lot of weight, still kind of losing weight. I've had trainers who, uh, overcame, uh, major ill injury and were rehabbing. Um, and the average client wants to relate to somebody. Now sometimes they look at a trainer and say, I want to look like that person. That happens as well. But more often than not, they go, I think I'm going to, I think that person's going to get me. And oftentimes it's like she looks like a mom or he looks like a guy that's around my age or she looks like she's been, you know, and so, uh, it's not a hindrance at all. Um, and often times it's a superpower. Now the imposter syndrome, I'm just going to tell you almost every new trainer feels it. Yep. So that's like super common and I don't care what they look like. They all kind of feel it because it's like, okay, who am I to train these people? Who am I to like charge $100 an hour? It's a very normal thing. It's not a bad thing. I think it drives us to become better and to continue pursue learning more, but it becomes a bad thing when it prevents you from doing this really, really cool thing, which is coach other people own who you are, where you are, and where you've come from. And if you own that and you're confident in that, you're going to be just fine. If you are insecure about that, that will come off here and that doesn't, and this would be the same conversation I'd have to a trainer who is insecure about sales or doesn't think they're smart enough. So whatever, if, if you're, if you are insecure about that as you communicate to people, it will bleed into them and then it'll, it'll just perpetuate and it'll make itself worse. But if you own who you are, where you are, where you came from and be proud of that, you're going to kill it. You'll kill it. I tell, I've, you've, I've, you've been listening long enough. You've probably heard me tell my story when I was not the fittest trainer. I definitely wasn't the smartest. I was the least experienced. I was the youngest. So super came but I wore that. Hey, this is who I, but I'm passionate about what I do and I'm excited. And that came off when I talked to people and I only knew a few things. I didn't know a lot. I didn't have a lot of experience and have a lot of kids. So I talked to those few things. So those things that have changed your life radically and have helped you go give that and go lean into that. Don't think about the things you don't know yet or don't think about the things you haven't got a like, don't worry about that. Go own what you do know, what you came from, who you are and be proud of that and go share that. There are tens of thousands of other people that need that. You'll, you'll be just fine. As long as you believe in that, if you believe in that and you carry yourself that way, you will absolutely crush it. But if you allow yourself to nitpick yourself or think about all the things you don't know or think about the things you haven't learned yet or how your body isn't where you want it to be, if you think about all that shit, it'll come out in the way you communicate to people. But if you're like, fuck, yeah, I'm here. This is where I came from. This is where I'm going. Like these are the things I know. This is what's changed my life. And you go give, give that to people. Oh my God, you'll, you'll kill it. Yeah. You'll kill it. Yeah. Ability to, ability to create relationship and trust is the most important thing a coach can have. If they don't have that, everything else doesn't matter. Yeah, I'm definitely confident in that. Plus, I mean, Nicole and I have talked about it, just with my past in terms of like that cyclical with weight gain, weight loss, but also like being an athlete formally and, you know, injuries and losing your identity, eating disorders. I feel like there's a lot of things I could relate to people on, but yeah, definitely to what you said, Adam. And I swear I didn't walk into the interviews, you know, like I was on that email. I was definitely very confident and I normally am very confident, but that was a, that was a rough day, I guess. Appreciate the vulnerability because there's a lot of, a lot of trainers or potential trainers who need to hear this, this conversation. Yeah. It's a major hurdle like they're saying for every new trainer. And I think that we can pick ourselves apart very easily. You know, I felt like I didn't communicate well enough or was like really willing to put myself out there to the extent that I now can, but, you know, these are all like steps that I just wanted to immerse myself in it and just, you know, explain again, what I was confident in being able to do with them. So just stick with what you know and you're going to, I was willing to show people like how much I cared through a lot of my professionalism and through a lot of my detailed organization. And so that was like what I leaned on in the beginning a lot was like, I'm going to be very structured and like, I'm going to have this huge plan for each person. I put it together like two, three days ahead of time before I even met with them. And just it was just one of those things where it just boosted up my, my own confidence. And then that kind of came out. And then down the road, I keep, you know, with repetition, it just became like automatic and just something that too, like you, you look back and you're like, wow, I know so much more than your average person coming in. And that's really what you have to give. And you can relate to them so much better than somebody that's like, you know, knows how to just train themselves and isn't like looking at their needs. So if you're really looking at their needs and you care a lot, that's going to go so far in this industry. Are you in our course, Lauren? Are you in our trainer group and course? No, not the elite trainer Academy. I do actually, I love listening to it though. Kyle's awesome. But I'm not actually in the course though. I didn't know just because I just got my cert, I just started my corrective exercise spec. So I wasn't sure if I was just too much of a newbie. No, no, no, no, you should absolutely. By the way, good for you for going correctional exercise right off the gate. It's very valuable. Well, actually, it's because of the article you wrote on how to become a successful personal trainer. To set myself apart. No, you're doing great. So our course is more focused on how to be a good coach and effective coach and build your business. So it's not, you're not going to get the correctional exercise stuff in there, biomechanics. You're not going, it's all about like being an effective coach. So it's the stuff we teach our trainers and coaches how to be an effective coach and also how to build a business. That's what our course is all about. And we can have Anne reach out to you to answer questions and maybe give you some advice. She runs our education here. But I think that would be valuable for someone like you. I definitely think you should be in there. So I think you should be in there. I also just sent Doug a clip from that my body did, my body, my buddy did on Instagram. My buddy, my buddy on Instagram did Mike. He, it's a great clip for going for interviews. It's the high performer asking the high performer question. I think it's a really good clip. Oh, no, I saw that you posted that. I loved it. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm recent. I'll have Doug resented to you. I just think that's such a good thing to listen to right before you walk into an interview with that. He explained that so well. So that's really good. But yes, get in our elite trainer academy. You'll get a ton of. If you're ever in the area, come visit. I don't know where you're located, but come, come hang out. I'm in Arizona, but I thought about it. My bestie is in Citrus Heights, which is far from you guys, but the trip. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Citrus Heights is not that bad. Hey, if you come out here, we'll schedule you to come listen to the podcast live and we'll see if we can set you up with the workout. Come hang out with the girls for a day too. Yep. That'd be awesome. Can I say one thing really quick? Sure. Yeah. I don't know if I get the opportunity to. Thanks for all you do, of course. Love all of you. But Sal, I just wanted to say thank you to you in particular. You'll always have a special place in my heart. Back in 2022, I had to go to like outpatient rehab for multiple eating disorders and it was like seven weeks. And I graduated and overnight, everything's gone, right? And the next day I was just terrified, even though I'd been in the real world the whole time. And I told myself, listen to Deloni, he's going to help you get through this. You're going to be okay. And turn them on. And it was you that day, Sal. And it was really helpful, although I had just been sitting with these like-minded people. There's a lot of things you're not allowed to say because you don't want to trigger anybody. And it just felt like everything you guys said, I finally felt seen and not alone. So thanks for that. Oh, thank you. You have been a really dark time. So thank you. I appreciate that. It's cool to see you where you're at now. This would be great. Yeah. Yeah. Right on. You guys have changed so much of me. So thank you. All right. Take care, guys. Appreciate it. Bye. Thank you. Bye. That's a cool story. You know, it's funny. Okay. This is just the trend. That's just what I noticed. And I guarantee you guys have seen the same of all the trainers that have worked under you or that you've worked with. The most shredded, fit-looking, Instagram ready looking people typically are not the greatest trainers. Is that not a- well, I think I typically out of the three of us, I've probably managed the most trainers by far and I have never had my most ripped Jill, 0%. My most ripped buff trainer was never that. I always had one because there's a superficial client that's what they all, and it's a very small percentage, about 3% of the clients that will come in and buy person. Give me the most jacked guy or the ripped- I got him. Right. I got him. You know what I'm saying? So I have that guy for those people, but that was never a good trainer. That was never my top trainer. My top trainer, my children a lot of times were healthy and fit, but they weren't. But they look more like a typical, like an average, stage ready. Because a majority of people, and since I filtered a lot of the clients before they got trainers, so I got to meet all of them. So thousands of people, most people were very scared to have a really, really fit trainer. And they preferred somebody that just looked healthier than they were because they felt very insecure. And they felt like they could not connect to that person. As most people that go to the gym, they're not looking to look amazing. They think that they might say, oh, wow, that's pretty cool. No different than you or one of us look at Michael Jordan when he plays basketball, but none of us go like every day, go home, go like, we're going to be like Michael Jordan. It's just like you accept, I'll probably never be that good. And a lot of people think that way when they see super ripped trainers like, I'll never be that way, but I need to be healthier. I had a memory unlock while you were talking because you were saying how you weren't the most fit, whatever, as a trainer. I mean, I started at 18. I was working out. And I guess, compared to the typical 18 year old, I might look like a workout, but I'll never forget this. This was like month two, or already the top trainer in the gym in terms of sales. And there was a bodybuilder on staff. And this guy, I always looked at him like, oh, because I love bodybuilding. This guy's so Jack. And he came up to me. I'll never forget this. He came up to me and he goes, you didn't even look like you work out. And I remember being like, wow, dude. And then part of me was like, all right, I'll show you, you know, type of deal. But I think, you know, and I just forgot about that memory. It's totally a lot. Cause I wasn't the Jack this most. I was an 18 year old kid. But it was, you know, I think, you know, you, I liked working with people like training people. I was super hungry and passionate. Oh yeah. So it's a total. I was the permable guy. I cut that comment a couple times. I used to make permable. You're the permable. I'm pretty sure I was, I'm trying to remember my exact team that I was with, but I was pretty sure I was the least fit and fit as far as muscular because I was just a skinny kid is what it was. But, and I was definitely the least experienced and I knew the least for sure. But I knew a few things. You were just ravishly handsome. That's all I was even that, bro. I had, I had my bottom braces without the wire stuck on my teeth. Without the wire? Yeah, dog fucked up. Yeah, bro. I was not, I was not that guy at all. And, but, you know, I was, I liked people. I was passionate about helping others. I knew a few things and I was excited about those few things. Those few things were revolutionary to me. It's the passion and thank God I had a personality. And that was it. You know what I'm saying? People feel that energy. Yep. Our next caller is Faith from Utah. Hi, Faith. How you doing, Faith? Hey, doing well. How about you guys? How can we help you? Hey, um, yeah. So, um, just before I read my question, just want to say thanks for all the, um, episodes you guys put out and all of the great like advice. I am new to Mind Palm probably about a month that I've been listening to it. My, the trainer at my chiropractor suggested you guys. So, all right. Um, yeah, Jess at Foundation Chiropractic in Orm, Utah. So, thank you. That's awesome. Um, also, yeah, I just want to say thanks for that episode you did on like best sports for kids. I put my three year old into gymnastics and he loves it. I would have never in a million years even had the idea to do that. So, that's great. That's cool. That's great. How can I help you? Okay. So, uh, yeah, I'll just get started. I'll read my question. I've updated it a little bit. So I don't know if you guys are looking at the one I sent in. It's, I just updated the numbers. But so every episode I've listened to by Mind Pump about fat loss or body recomp is mentioned how important it is to not lose any muscle in the process. I think I might be an exception to this guidance, but wanted to ask the experts. Uh, I am a 188 pound, 5, 7 male, uh, female, 5 foot, 7 inch female at 25% body fat with 141 pounds of lean body mass and 47 pounds of body fat. Also, just for context, about six months postpartum, but not currently nursing. Uh, I have been weightlifting for about two years. I would love to do a bikini competition eventually and from my brief, very brief googling, I think that bikini competitors at my height, uh, usually their stage weight is about between 125 and 135 pounds. Uh, since my lean body mass is already above the stage weight and I need to have at least some body fat, I think I need to lose about 30 pounds of muscle and around 30 pounds of fat. Uh, just wanted to confirm with you guys since I rarely hear you talking about losing muscle as a goal. Um, and then just a little bit more context. I was on a cut for seven weeks and then I did a body fat, uh, scan test and I got really scared when I saw that nine of the 14 pounds that I lost was muscle. So decided to eat at maintenance for a week to hopefully give my metabolism a break before going back on the cut. Um, I also started taking creatine during my maintenance week and then the cut that I was doing before and now I'm back on my cut, it's a 600 calorie deficit and it's pretty, I think it's pretty manageable. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've actually, you know, been hungry in those seven weeks. So basically my questions are, do you agree that I need to lose about 30 pounds of muscle to be competitive on stage? And if so, is, you know, is there a bed, like a best way to go about it? Should I prioritize muscle loss first so that in my last cut leading up to competing, I can just focus on fat loss. Um, yeah, I'd love, I'd love to get your advice on it. I would hate to see you do that by the way. Yeah. So let's back up for a second. Let's back up for a second. How are you testing your body fat? Is it on a scale? You just stand on it with your feet or? Yeah, with the, uh, the things you hold out on your side that I don't know what they're called. Get a DEXA scan just to get a more accurate reading. Uh, first of all, uh, number two, uh, if you were to lose 20 to 30 pounds of muscle, do you know what that is? No. Illness. Yeah. That's illness. Like, like, if you, if you targeted that doing that, what you would do to your health would be catastrophic detrimental. That's catastrophic muscle loss. That's like if you're bedridden because you're super sick, uh, and you're in, and you literally can't move for a month or longer. That's what that would look like. Okay. So that's, uh, that's catastrophic in terms of your health. So not a good idea. The real question I want to ask you is why do you want to do? Tell me why you want to do a bikini contest and tell me about your fitness background, athletic background, like what have you done in the past? And then what's leading you to say I want to do a bikini contest? Sure. Um, I was a runner, um, for, I don't know, probably about 10 years or in a few half marathons. And then really I picked up running like as a form of weight management. Um, but then I honestly stopped kind of carrying a lot about my weight. So I was like, well, I don't care about my weight, why am I running? Um, so I stopped running and then kind of switched over to weightlifting. Um, so yeah, been doing weightlifting for two years, but before the two years, yeah, just kind of been running for most of my life and then, you know, in high school did lots of random sports. So, and then as far as why I wanted to be a bikini competitor, um, yeah, I guess when I was like six, yeah, six months, I was six months pregnant and I was thinking this is like terrible. I would like to be, um, I just decided to set this goal so that like it would be, I thought it would be fun to be like incredibly like challenge my body, right? Um, like see how, how late I could get. And I am totally planning on not staying that lean. This is more like a bucket list kind of item, you know, check it off and then go back to like a healthy body fat percentage after that and just maintenance for the rest of my life. Okay. Bikini would be the worst thing that, that you, you could do, uh, in that pursuit. Um, so bikini is massively, uh, body focus, body conscious, body obsessive. Um, it, it's not a healthy pursuit. Uh, the only time that I'm okay with people doing it is when there's like their favorite sport in the world. Uh, and they also have a healthy, um, you know, body image, uh, healthy relationship to food and a lot of stuff. Uh, typically if someone's like, Hey, I just want to use it as a goal. Then I would say, get rid of competing and just have the goal of improving your overall fitness. Um, according to your body fat, a percentage scale, you carry a good amount of lean body mass. That's phenomenal. Yeah. Like you want that. How many calories do you know how many calories you're eating on a daily basis? In my cut, yeah, I'm at 1800. I think my maintenance is about 2400. Okay. I, I, I would like, I would rather see you build into getting leaner than trying to cut into getting leaner. So focus on getting stronger, focus on your strength training. Um, keep your calories probably around 24, 2500 and just let your body composition, you're only six months postpartum. Uh, how many kids you have? Is this a number one? Two kids. So you know that it takes a while to really fully feel like yourself, uh, after having a kid. So, so right now I wouldn't even focus hard core on any goal. I would just keep doing what you're doing and let your body composition start to change. But you've got some great lean body mass. I'm assuming you're pretty strong. Uh, well, listening to some of the people that call into you, I don't think I'm that strong. Tell me about your, tell me about like your squat, your deadlift, your presses. Yeah. They, they all need work. So, uh, I'm not a very good squatter. I just started doing barbell squats because of, you know, since listening to you guys. So like, and really the only time I've squatted barbell squats is when I'm going to cut. So like 60 pounds. Squatting. Oh yeah. You, you're, you'll be way better served for us to really, uh, so in the weightlifting world, then you're still kind of in your infancy. And so there's so much more potential for your body to focus on building and sculpting that way versus trying to cut and carve down. You'll get way more out of that. And you, where you're at lean body mass, I'll tell you one of the reasons why you're, even though I think Sal's right with a Dexcan gets him that's more accurate, but why you saw the, the muscle loss like that is the amount of lean body mass that you have on your body. Your body needs more calories to sustain that muscle and putting yourself at it at 1800 calories. And then also doing all this activity, your body's like, Oh, we can't have all this muscle. So it pared it down. It needs more than that. Someone with as much lean body mass as you, we would probably be up in 3000 calorie range. And so in order for you to get there, without putting on a bunch of body fat, we need to get strong in the gym and start really pushing the weights. So getting strong in your squat, getting strong in your deadlift, getting strong in your rows, getting strong in your overhead press. That should be the main focus while being fed, while feeding yourself a good amount of calories. And I really don't care about the scale weight right now. It would be get strong and build your metabolism and build muscle that will get put you in a place. So if I was coaching you, and this was our goal, even if if I could convince you to not get on stage, but I said, Hey, I'll build that bikini body you're you're going after, but let's do this the right way. And what that would look like is you and I not really worrying about where your weight on the scales right now, let's go build your metabolism, let's go get you to where you're eating 3000, 3200 calories, you're squatting 150 to 180 pounds, you're deadlifting 150 180 like then when and you're sustaining that your weight is staying the same, you're eating 3200 calories, you're strongest shit in the gym. Now I go, Okay, now we can start to bring you down faith. Now I'm going to bring you down to 2800 calories and then watch what happens you just lean out and when you keep your muscle you just drop body fat from that place and we do that nice and slow. That's how you get ready for that build that look that you're that a bikini competitor would have going from where you're at now leads you to a road of 1800 calories, you might lose a couple pounds body plateaus, then what do you do pick up more activity and drop calories to 1500 calories, then you lose a couple more and then you plateau and then it's like, eventually you and I are eating 1100 calories and you're still working out like crazy. Yeah, yeah, and you're and you're terrible. Yeah, it's terrible. But that's the old where we're coming from right now. That's the only pathway to get down to that kind of way and just to encourage you doing this the right way, the look that you're looking for you're going to get. Yeah, you're going to look sculpted, you'll have good shape because you have good muscle on your body, you're going to be you're going to be you're going to look phenomenal. The scale is your enemy. So anytime I work with a woman who has really good muscle building genetics, the scale can mess with them because they look a particular way, but the scale says something else. And so because lean body mass looks different than body fat, it looks sculpted, it looks firm, you look like you've got nice curve and great shape. And the scale can look like, oh, this looks like, in fact, people would guess you're a lot lighter than what the scale says is probably what's going to happen. But you've got this roaring metabolism, you're strong, you're sculpted, you know, everything feels really good. And so that's the direction you want to go. If your if your numbers are correct, also, I'll tell you, and not that I think you should compare yourself to anybody, but you're you're built more like a figure competitor than you are a bikini competitor also. I won. Yeah, I was curious about that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I know about your numbers. Yeah, yeah, no, you're you're tall and you have a lot of muscle. You're you're my my ex was is carried herself at five seven to she was five seven walked around at 175 180 in the off season. When she hit stage, she was like 160 170. And for figure. Yeah, for figure. Yeah, because she had a lot of lean body mass. So she had a she's tall and had a lot of lean body mass. So you're built more. Yeah, like she was then my bikini competitors. Yeah, yeah, it's an awesome gift. This is a great lesson. Are you open to working with a coach to hiring a coach? Oh, yeah, I that was yeah, that was a plan I knew I was gonna have to hire a coach sometime right to get to meet my goals. Let me do this because we have really good coaches. They've got great they're they're met. They're gonna keep you healthy. Make sure you do the right things. So I'm gonna have somebody reach out to you. And then you can work with them through this process and you're probably gonna start in a reverse time. That's what they'll do what I told you first. Your first goal is to set the I tell competitors all the time trained a ton of competitors. The you the season when you win the figure, it's in the off season. It's in the building the metabolism, building the muscle building the body when you cut for the show, that's just revealing all the hard work you did in the off season. It's not like cut from here and then go get up on stage like no, it's what you work you put into building muscle building your metabolism. That's what will determine how how successful you are at this. So they'll do all that with you. Okay, perfect. And then I was I've been waiting to buy one of your programs until I talk to you. So maybe is it maps anabolic? Is that where you guys they'll set you up on all that. So if you work with the coach, they'll give that to you. And then they'll give you our programs and they'll individualize it. It's like you can't get better than that. Yeah. Okay, sweet. Well, thanks guys. You got to faith things falling in. All right, take it easy. Yeah, I mean, imagine, like she's like, oh, I got to lose 20 pounds of muscle to get on stage. Oh my God. Oh, no, don't do that. Glad she called in for you to make yourself sick to lose that much muscle, you know, essentially, but it would be a terrible approach. Yeah, you don't want to do that. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no, not at all. But if her great that we got a holder right if she has that if her numbers are even close to correct, that she has a lot of lean body mass. And if she's only doing things like 60 pound squats, so much potential potentials. Oh, yeah, she's got a lot that you knew new games. Oh, totally. Yeah, yeah. So that's the focus. If you like mine pump, can find us on Instagram. My pump. Thank you for listening to mine pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mine pump media.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ball, like maps, performance and maps aesthetic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mine pump media.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing mine pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is mine pump.