2859: Take a Week Off and Gain 21% More Muscle — Here's the Science

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is mind pumping. Today's episode we had callers call in. We got to coach them live on air, but this was after a 60 minute intro conversation. So we're talking about fitness and exercise, muscle building, fat loss, current events, conspiracy theories. Always fun. Look, if you want to be a caller, here's what you do. Send your question to mplivecaller.com. Now this episode was brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is butcher box. So here's what they do. They deliver high quality meats and fish to your door. So grass fed meat, a wild caught fish, a crate free chicken, heritage pork. They deliver it to your door at incredible prices. If you like protein, you want it to be quality and you like to save money. Here's what you do. 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Head on over to my pump store.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Every once in a while you figure out that there's one simple thing you could do to boost your gains by 20% oftentimes it's not true, but this time it is. There is one simple thing. It literally is simple that you can do. You can add to your training and you will see over time much better gains. And most people don't do it. We're going to talk about it right now. 20%. Let's go. 20% bump. Yep. D-loads. Let's get it. It's D-loads. Really? Yes. Is this what the research says? So here's what I did is I had to use AI for this because there's a lot of studies on this kind of stuff. And I went all the way back to the 1960s and pulled up Soviet data and also looked at current data. Now we know as coaches and trainers are experienced. We know when we work with people that if you don't do this, people just don't progress as well. And when you do it, they just progress really well. We also know it with ourselves. The challenge was when I looked at the data, there were a lot of these eight and nine week studies. And when you look at eight and nine week studies, you're not going to see much. No, you're not going to see much with D-loads because that's not what D-loads or periodization. Periodization is kind of like a D-load. So periodization is where you, you'll go through periods of higher volume, lower volume, higher intensity, lower intensity. It's all structured out typically. So it's not based on how you feel, but it's rather structured. So you know, over the next couple of weeks, I'm going to do much lower volume or I'm going to do what's called speed work or whatever. But in short, you know, periods of time, you're not going to see much gains from this. Where this really shines is if you've been working out for a while, like this makes a, this is one of the most important factors in workout programming just based on the data and the evidence, we can go all the way back again to the 1960s and 70s when the Soviets were destroying everybody in strength sports. They were crushing everybody. Um, and I said this on a previous episode, the speculation was that they had better drugs than we did. Um, that's what everybody believed and what we said. And then, uh, when the iron curtain fell down and their coaches came over here and we had started access to their data, uh, we realized it had nothing to do with the drugs. It was their methods. It was their methods because then their coaches came over here. Our athletes started training this way and lo and behold, we all started crushing records. So it makes a tremendous difference. Yeah. I'm trying to think the only, uh, the only drawbacks to this advice that I see is if you're somebody who's listening and you struggle with consistency, then you're already deloading. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm deloading your way into intensive, but I love this conversation. I love this. And I love that you got, you figured out the percentage because that's, that's, that's, uh, remarkable. Yes. Um, and of course, we all know this. We've talked about it many times, but to put a number on it is like, wow, that's a, that's a big difference, right? And I do think that a large percentage of the people that listen to the show are fitness fanatics are people that are really consistent. I mean, we get a lot of people that call out and they're like, I've been doing this for a year. I've been like that, that they train consistently. Um, and so I think those people would, would get a lot of benefit from, from doing this. Huge benefit. What was the, um, parameters in terms of the length of the, like week of the deload and like how frequent, you know, for the year. Well, you remember that one study, which I think is so fascinating. Yeah. Which showed no difference between two groups. Yeah. It was like alternating weeks. Well, this one, what every month a group took a full week off. Oh, it was just one. And the other took no week off. Yeah. Which is crazy every month, every month, they get a whole week off. At the end of the 16 weeks, they had the same gains. Yeah. That's crazy. That is crazy. Which is wild. So here's, here's what it feels like when you do this right. And here's what the data shows. And as I'm reading the data, I'm like, that is true for people who are consistent because I could, I could see this as well. So what they would, have you ever heard the term? I know Justin, I'm sure you have super compensation. Okay. So what it looks like is you have these highly trained strength athletes and they're pushing, pushing, pushing. And then they go through a block, let's say two or three weeks of some, some periodization or a deload. So the intensity drops significantly. The volume drops. What it looks like is technique training. Or if you're a power athlete, like a sprinter, it looks like speed training technique. Yeah. You're not pushing yourself. You're just, you know, practicing biomechanics and form and technique skills. Right. If you're a lifter, you're going to the gym. And if you normally squat with 300 pounds, you're squatting with 200 pounds and you're going easy, but you're just practicing the skill and the technique. When they get back to the hard training, there is a reduction in strength. They see this, but after two or three weeks, there's what's called super compensation and they surpass their previous. Yes. Their previous best. And so this is important to communicate because if you're, uh, you know, consistent and well-trained, you may be hearing deload. And you're like, I don't know about what that, what you're talking about. Cause when I take a week or two off, I come back, I'm already strong. I don't feel as strong or it doesn't feel as good. I got to get back into it, but you got to wait a bit. It's actually later on that you see this progress. You know, my, one of my favorite things about the competing process was the week after the leading like one to three weeks after a show. Oh yeah. And a lot of that, like not only was I like depleted in calories leading up to this, this show, the final week of, of prep, when you get it before you get on stage, you don't really work out. No. Yeah. I mean, at that point, all the work is done and you're really just kind of fine-tuning. Working out with those low calories and that low body. Yeah. You're not doing anything. So you're really low. So you're really deloading completely in that week. And then, and then you're also at pro post show really, feeding like crazy next week. So you get this week off. You're, you totally desensitize everything. Load back up. Those, the workouts for the next week to two was, was, it's the most it is. It feels more anabolic than steroids. Yes. It's so hard to explain that to somebody. It's like, somebody who obviously is taking plenty of anabolic steroids and knows what that feels like. The feeling of that feels more powerful than that. So I went, I went through that on accident. It wasn't planned. So when way back, I don't know how long ago was it Doug that was shot MAPS anabolic and the NoBS six back in 2013. Okay. So this was, God, that's a luck time. Okay. So 13 years ago, you're a different dude. So 13 years ago, this was my thought process. So we're going to put together a digital workout program. Mine pump didn't exist. So we had no way of marketing this other than some internet marketing skills and experience that Doug had. And so I'm like, how, how is anybody going to listen to me? I have no authority. Remember, I had no podcast back then. I'm not going to get bigger than most people online because I've just not. So what I, the best thing I could do is get shredded, shredded always kind of looks impressive. So that was my thought process was aside from putting out good content, doing good internet marketing, maybe blogs, I'm going to get a shred as possible. So that when Doug puts my picture up, people will at least see that. Right? So it was the first time I'd ever gotten down, uh, because before that the leanest I'd ever got was like 8% maybe. And I got down to like sub 4%, which was really brutal. That was an experience all in, of itself. But when I did that, we filmed, we took the photos. In fact, you could see some of the old photos of that where I'm like super shredded. After that, I, so I, I didn't work out that much when I got that lean, because I just couldn't, yeah, we did the photo shoot, all that stuff. And then I did what you do after shows, you just start feeding yourself. I was, you know, I was eating so low calorie. I couldn't wait to feed myself. And I was eating like crazy. And it was the wildest, like month ever that I ever experienced. Yeah. I just felt like I was just building muscle out of nowhere. And this is all crazy. This is all pre, uh, HRT for you too. So you're all natural. I'm all natural. Oh, it was wild. I looked in the mirror and I was like, what is happening to my body? This is so crazy. And that's part of the super compensation. So you just brought that up. So this is what they would do after a D load. So after a D load, and then the person gets back into training, they would actually bump their nutrient intake. So they would feed them more. And, and, and so for anybody who's ever heard of carb loading before an endurance race, what a lot of people don't realize is what typically happens before the carb load is a carb depletion. So this is endurance athletes. Got to restrict before endurance athletes have known this for a long time. So what endurance athletes have done for decades now is they'll lead up to an event. They'll drop their carbs. That's super low cause they're endurance, but they'll drop their carbs for a little while while they're training. They'll experience drops in performance. They're more tired, whatever. And then leading up to the event, they bring their carbs up higher than where they were before they dropped them. And they would get all this extra stored glycogen and energy. And that's also super compensation. It's just part of this whole process. So like people listening right now are like super consistent with their training. You can tap into this and know you're going to go through a little period of feeling like you're not as strong, but know that two or three weeks after, it's going to get wild. And I got to, I mean, let me ask you guys, how many people who are super consistent with their training, even attempt to do anything like, no, no, nobody, no, nobody does this. No. Cause you're, I feel like you're either on one end of the spectrum, you know, that's why I said, well, when I, you're the inconsistent or you're the person that shouldn't use this advice because you can't string four weeks together. Yeah. And so just disregard this information. Or yeah, or you're the other person who's like so consistent, you never take breaks, maybe a day here or there or whatever, or we can get away, but never do you schedule like a whole week of deloading. And to me, when, when that study came out that showed people taking a whole week off every single month in a three, three month study that's got the same results as the people who took train every week. That shows you. I mean, that's that, that number is nuts. That's almost a full month of the three months. By the way, you took off and you saw the same result. If you look deeper at that study and others like it, what they see is a drop and strengthen the hypertrophy. Hard to rebound, right? And then a rebound, a drop and then a rebound. And at the end of the, I think it was 16 weeks, they're the same. Yeah. So they did like one fourth of the, uh, they did a three fourths of the work, uh, of the other group and had the same gains. Yeah. So, you know, you could tap into that, uh, with your training, get better growth. So sometimes people will point to other studies that show that, well, if you periodize or you de-load hypertrophy is similar. Here's the problem with that because that is true, but these are short studies. First off, if you look at those shorter studies, there is a modest, uh, advantage for periodization for strength. So that's number one. So although hypertrophy seems similar, strength is better in the periodized group. However, when they stretch these out over time, uh, the periodized group, uh, less burnout, less injuries and better hypertrophy because, this it's cumulative. Yeah. It all adds up. Makes a lot of sense. By the way, bodybuilders back in the day, uh, used to do this. They don't do this so much now. Part of it is, I think is the drugs they use now are just insane, but in the seventies, uh, they all took, uh, time off. They all took time off afterwards. Yeah. Some guys still do too. Like you, you know, our friends that are, that are been doing it for a really long time, uh, are they, in fact, they, the guys who are able to maintain, there's a term, there's a bodybuilding term. It's not a scientific term. It's, uh, that they call, um, what ha, what they think happens, uh, when you do so many cuts and show that is your body just, it stalls out. It's like, it doesn't, it doesn't, you're burnt. Yeah. And that's, it's, yeah. And I can't remember the term that they use. It's, it's, uh, slipping my mind right now, but it's basically, they need to completely reset because it's there. They're so adapted to the calorie cutting and all the cardio and all the stuff that they're doing to get in shape that they just need to completely, you know, who took time off after every Olympia was Ronnie Coleman. And then you know who did this to an extreme was Kevin LaRoni. So in the nineties, uh, he's probably one of the best uncrowned Mr. Olympias and people would trip over how much muscle he lost, uh, after a big show, because he would stop everything. He would stop training, stop doing anything. And then he'd show up to get ready for a show and people would trip and how much muscle. And they thought, oh, you must have this, the best genetics. No. And by the way, he's got great longevity. If you look at Kevin LaRoni today, he looks phenomenal. Yeah. Um, and bodybuilders that practice is typically look a lot better. Dexter Jackson is a good, a good example though. So like if, like, how do you apply this to your training? I think it's reasonable because you can look at like complex, uh, models of periodization. Uh, and the programming gets pretty specific and pretty awesome for coaches and trainers. Like in strength, uh, uh, coaches, like this stuff gets really nitty gritty, kind of cool. But I think an easy way to do, apply this for yourself is if you're ultra consistent is, uh, every sixth or seventh week or two, go and plan to go easy in the gym. You still show up, you still work out regardless of how good you feel. So this is why periodization is so effective, uh, uh, because, or how it was used. You have to really plan it. It was scheduled. Yeah. Put it in your calendar. Yeah. Because if you wait until you're burnt out, you're already behind the able. So what, so what I'm recommending is like for those people who are consistent is every like the seventh week or eighth week or sixth week, something around there, you take a week or two where you're like, I'm going to go, I even, I know I feel great. I feel like I'm crushing it. Uh, but what I'm going to do is go to the gym and go easy for a couple of weeks. And you may notice a little bit of loss of muscle fullness, little bit of loss of strength when you get back to the gym. But no, and this is very consistent. The data two or three weeks after it, you get that super compensation. Yeah. Where you, it's sling shots you forward for better games. There's another thing that I think that this, for me personally, this is a help. And maybe this will help somebody else or the way that I frame this for myself is I, life happens inevitably. And I tend to have these, these periods of time where I'm a little inconsistent. And when, and then there's other periods of time where I'm really consistent. After that study came out, it, uh, it changed kind of my mindset where I used to get really frustrated and I allow days off, like five days of missing the gym to kind of spiral out and have the kind of effort on and off type of mindset versus being like, Oh, it's perfect. That was on a nice rhythm for like a month there. And I took five, six days off and row. Natural deload. Yeah. Natural deload. And I'm back at it again. And it's, uh, I don't know. It's, it's, it's similar to the me giving myself the permission to go to the gym and just do one or two exercises. It's been very freeing and it just, I just go with it. Verse before I used to allow it like, Oh, I'm off now. I've been in, I've been missing. And then I fall off the diet. I fall off all those things. And then, and then one week turns into two weeks versus me going like, Oh, that was perfect. It was like, it was nice. I had a nice week off and now I'm back at it again. And what I've noticed when I look back, look over six months, it's like, man, I've been able to maintain really good shape, even though I would consider myself relatively inconsistent. Relatively inconsistent. But when you look at it, I'm still consistent compared to the average person. I don't take months off, but week a week off all the time happens these days. But then I'm right back at it. And when, during that time off, I also didn't go off the rails and just completely let go of my eating like, and it's just. So here's what I do. Cause I, I'm much better with this than it used to be. So I'm, I'm obviously a fanatic and I have a little mental block with it or connection. Like I get to the gym, it's for my mental health, you know. And so if you're listening, you're probably like, Oh yeah, that's me. So here's what I do when I do my D load, uh, I go to, and there's two ways I can approach this. So you're either a strength guy or girl, or you're like a muscle or hypertrophy guy or girl. So this is two ways you could do this. And I've done both. I'll go to the gym and if it's hypertrophy, if that's the mindset I'm in, I'm going light and all I'm trying to do is really feel the muscle. So, you know, if I'm doing incline press and let's say I work out with 225, I'm going to put 135 on and I'm just going to really try to feel the pecs squeeze and just kind of like isolate and do that kind of thing. Right. If you're a strength guy or girl, cut the weight in half and just perfect your technique. Can I make my deadlift more explosive? Can I make it move faster off the bottom? Can I get my squat to feel more stable? And so you just perfect the technique. And then again, what'll happen is you'll come back, feel like you maybe lost a little bit and then suddenly boom, uh, gains will go through the roof. So it's just a good approach for people because I think the big challenge with this isn't necessarily the information that we're giving, but the attachment. Obviously. Oh, no, that's interesting because I naturally do that for, well, I'm a big like movement in general, like gross motor movements, like less on like muscle groups and whatnot. But when I do take weeks like that where I'm kind of really lowering my intensity, I will either feel and squeeze like more hypertrophy style training or yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to go through that and really like do fast reps really light. Yes. So that's what powerlifters will do with their deloads is they're trying to move the bar faster with lighter weight and they don't go like to fatigue, like faster and then also hammer myself. Yeah. It's just perfecting the speed. The bar is great for performance. All right. I got to, um, so we talk about meal prepping on the show. I've been more consistent than I've ever been in a long time with meal prepping. Really? Yeah. You got, you know, this, you see me bring my meals. Well, I mean, I feel like you've been that way for a while now. Well, I'm super consistent with, uh, now with how I prep and how I schedule it. So have you, is, is part of this doordash motivation at all? No, it was really, that was mine. That was mine. Those numbers gone down. Well, that was mine. I'm not lying. I was like a lot of, a lot of the motivation was like, I think I could put a dent in this. Yeah. Dude. And I have, dude. It's almost insulting. It is. It is a bit insulting. I don't look at that. I'm not embarrassing, like how ridiculous it is and just getting back to that. Anyway, sorry to cut you off. No, well, the motivation for me was health, uh, because as healthy as you can eat, if you're smart with eating out, they're always going to use different oils and, you know, the food isn't going to be as clean as what I know I can make or whatever. So what we did is I switched my butcher box cuts to include a ton of chicken thighs because I love thighs for, I don't know, thighs are really good. Like steak is good too. Ground beef is the best, but there's like certain meats that are, are, are okay. Warmed up again, like steak, rewarm steak. It's not the best. It's okay. I'll do it. McWave steaks. Yeah. Yeah. Ground beef, you could warm up and it's great. And chicken thighs are great. Warmed up chicken thighs the day after, two days after, almost just as good as when you first made it. So I switched my butcher box. We already had a ton of ground beef because my kids will eat that, but I threw in like hella chicken thighs. So now what I do is Sunday, so I do this on Sunday, Sundays after church, come home, I fire up the grill and I put like five, six pounds of chicken thighs out there, season them, and just grill them all up. And then if you look at my fridge now, I have like, uh, like, like all these tupperware is filled up with chicken and rice or chicken and vegetable. And it's just great. I think that the four staple things that we have in every box is chicken nuggets to my, my son. Yeah. I don't prep those. The chicken, the chicken thighs have to have those. The ground, the ground beef and then my ribs. Yeah. Those are the, those fourth, I eat though, we eat those on rotation and that's, that's my box. But I would say the easiest, right? I don't know if you, would you guys agree like, um, ground beef, rice, you know, you could throw in some mushrooms in there, some seasoning, a little bit of salsa after you warm it up. Super. It's always really good. I always like it. And then thighs, you season them, get warm up again. Both those are. Both those are amazing. Reheated. Yeah. Yeah. All right. In fact, I, I don't know. Try to think right now. Can I try steak and I don't think we want to stay. So there's a trick. I have a trick for that. What do you do? So you cook it rare? Yes. Okay. Yep. So, so the trick is to, so I'll, when I, when I'm, I'll cook a bunch of steak, right? A bunch of ribeye and I normally, uh, when I cook, uh, I'll cook enough for like Katrina and I eat that night. That night I'll cook it to a medium temperature that we're going to be eating dinner. The other ones I pull early. So they're at, right? When you're reading. So they're rare. So when I, and then I also do this. So I cook them and then I cube them. So then I, I slice in cubes. So I don't, because the other thing that's about steak, is like, you got a plastic fork you're trying to cut. Yeah, dude. So I, I actually, you guys have seen me in your channel. So I, I take, I cube them all up and portion it out with the rice. So they're rare and they're, and they're cute. Mixing the rice. Yes. And then when you reheat, it takes it up to a medium. I should have asked you this earlier. And, and yeah, it's, that's the key to that. I think. Oh wow. You know what my kids like? Chicken breast. Yeah. They like, they like chicken breast. I'm with them. Yeah. I'm a big chicken breast guy. You like chicken breast? You guys highlight that all the time. I'm like, yeah. Really? You never say anything. Because I, you love it so much. I don't, you're not going to change my mind. I did not know that about you. You have good feelings? Yeah. You're a pro chicken breast guy? Bro, I, I don't. The problem is, you know, over the years, like, I feel like there's been like a consistency issue with chicken breasts. I don't know if it's, you know, a certain quality of, but like, obviously Butcher Box has a better quality, so that helps. But like, yeah, I kind of steered away from them from a bit because you'd get them and, and it was kind of like, I don't know, like, I don't know how to describe it. But I'm like chewy kind of like consistency. Like you didn't have that same like cooked throughout kind of feel. But like, yeah, I've always liked just the flavor of chicken breast better. Weird. Bro, what the heck? I've known you for how long. No idea. I had no idea. You're a big breast guy. Wow. Yeah. So tonight we're having. They're so dry. So tonight we'll have chicken breast. I mean, if where I like chicken breast, but Katrina has this dish that she makes that has like, it's like a, it's like a Greek yogurt. It's, it's saucy. Okay. So if the chicken, I like, when you put it with, you like your chicken leg, you like your women. Saucy. Real saucy, really spicy. Saucy and breasty. Yeah. I didn't say that. I didn't say that, dude. So when she cooks the chicken breast in, and we have it in like a sauce or casserole, that's where I like chicken breast because you got all these other fats and juices with it. So then it's, then it's good, but straight chicken. Bro, how many things about you do we not know? Cause you don't say anything. Probably a lot. This is a big deal. Check bro, chicken breast the next day. Hey, how many times have me and you talked crap about chicken breast and this guy silent? And you prefer it? Yeah. Oh yeah. That's some serial killer shit, bro. Dude, because in tacos and everything else, like, yeah, I don't want like, I don't want dark meat. Wow. Wow, you're racist too. Wow. Serial killer and racist. Hey, listen, it makes sense. You can't pin that on me. It makes sense. He does kind of have like a kid's palate. You know what I mean? Like, oh, chicken thighs is too much, you know, too much. Well, that's where it's weird to be because chicken breasts are dry, man. They're super dry. Especially reheated. You barbecue sauce the hell out of them. That's why they say, yeah. Let's be honest, you're having barbecue, you have some chicken with your barbecue sauce. Listen, I need to be honest with you. See, here comes all the hate. I need to be honest with you. That's why it is safe. Don't worry, eat, fuck, and put a loose on there. Don't worry, plenty of people come to defend you. Hey, hold on. You seasoned it right. Plenty of people come to defend you about their chicken breasts. Hey, hold on real quick. It's fine. It's fine, dude. Just being honest. Listen, okay, be honest right now. Yeah. Do you ever dip your chicken breast in ketchup? Ew, no, hell no. Okay. All right. All right. I was like, I was close. He's the mannish guy, dude. So I don't put it on my chicken. Really? No. You see you being honest? I can do it, but I don't. Manning is from French fries. I've seen you eat a cube of butter, dude. Yeah. Yeah, I'll eat butter all the time. And I'll do that too. When I was a kid, there's no shame. When I was a kid, my mom would go in the fridge and she'd see that the stick of butter had a bite out of it. She gets so mad at me. You just straight bite it. I would go in the first. I'd sneak in and I'd bite it and then put it away. That's crazy. Not that smart of a kid though, right? Like, I mean, it was. Yeah, yeah. Like, you can't hide that. I don't think it was until I started hanging out with you guys where I'll, and I know I got it from you because I'd never did it before. Up until I was 30, if I had butter and bread, like a normal human, I cut it with a butter knife and I spread it on my thing. But I, and I know I've seen you guys do this with just the bread. You just, just we later. Yeah. Just, you know, you just got, you'd use the bread and you almost like dip on the butter. You're saying you just scoop the butter and then I'd start. I've do that now. I never did that before. And I'm like, I know it's a habit I got from you guys. You definitely influenced the other. The bread is just to hold the butter. Yes, exactly. That's what, that's what it's like now. I've never, I never, you know, when you go like, it's like, you go to a restaurant now and they give you the foil ones. Yeah. Yeah. I just open it up. Just put it on the bread. Yeah. Like, where's all the rest? Yeah, you just scoop it with the bread where I never did that before. I would like take a knife and I'd spread it evenly and then. I'll civilize. It went, it took my. You've taken on bad habits. Yeah. My one cube of butter per slice to like four cubes. Oh yeah. Yeah. Per slice, because of that. All right. Listen, I got to bring this up because this is happening. And I'm going to put my theory out there. Oh, God. This has been Texas this morning. Listen, what's happening? Oh, God. Oh, this has been keeping you up at night. Because this is, this is, this is the craziest. This is the craziest thing that is going to be coming out in modern history, in my opinion. Okay. So the FBI just said, what's his name? Patel, the guy that run. Cash Patel. He just said, we just. Super trust with you. I know. Well, let's get there. We'll get there. Okay. He said, I, we just, uh, uh, like basically green lighted a ton of information and documents on UFOs and non-human entities. That's what they're calling aliens now, non-human entities. And so it's going to come out. By the way, the White House just bought a, uh, a URL. I think it's aliens.gov. Yeah. Doug, look that up. Aliens.gov. I mean, we already have a space force. So, okay. So we're gearing up. No, no, there's more. Okay. That's here. There's more. First off, all these officials are coming out. These are like, these are like, uh, politicians who are coming out, who are part of this like disclosure. Wait. Okay. And two, they've already been, um, working with like religious leaders, right? Oh, sorry. Oh, sorry. These ruin whole stories. All right. So listen, these, these politicians are coming out. And they're saying it's crazier than you think. And what we're dealing with are interdimensional, non-human entities. Interdimensional. So in other words, these aren't aliens, like, like you would, like you would see in a movie. They are interdimensional. So they could disappear, reappear. They exist in other dimensions. That's what the politicians are coming out saying. Also, there was this meeting of pastors who met with government officials. This is all over social media. So I don't know how true it is, but they're coming out and saying it happened. Who they met with these officials and they said to them, we need you to prepare your congregation for what's about to come out. Okay. So do a couple of things, a couple of thoughts on this. One, uh, if you trust everything the government says, uh, you're not going to go and tune out. Yeah. I think at this point, I don't think they have, I think they've never told us anything. No, no, I. So we're going to have to go to the next one. So whatever they release is what they want us to see. And there's a narrative behind it. That's just the way it works. This is of all this, so you're talking about right now, this is the area where we're in agreements. Yeah. I have my two cents on all this. I think, I think that it's demons. I think what we're dealing with, they're trying to label, uh, the dark forces of the spiritual realms, the principalities, the demons as non-human entities. Yeah. And so I think that's what we're dealing with. So of course you've been a rebrand since. Yeah. The great deceiver. These ancient times. And what they're going to do, here's my theory. The aliens are spirits. If I'm right, then, then awesome. Oh, well, no, not awesome. I hope not, but I think I'm going to be right. I think that they're going to try and rewrite, uh, the origin of humanity, the origin of life. They're going to try to say things like these spiritual leaders, Jesus was just, you know, one of these entities that came and we created humanity. And they're going to try and crush, uh, people's faith through all of this. That's what I think. So. It's demons. So. Where, where, where we are in a green is that, that, uh, 100%, I believe whatever we do get to hear is what the government wants you to hear. Now, because that we're in a green, it's there where my brain goes right away is that it's less about any of your ideas being true. And it's more about what we're not hearing. So I think it has nothing to do. I think they could fabricate all kinds of files and stories and try to prove it's interdimensional demons and like whatever all the gear. So cause that's crazy and that's a crazy debate in itself. And so we're all over here. Wow. Something else, slide of handshits going on over here. Not a bad theory. I feel like they've been reading every prophetic literature, uh, in history and they've been trying to, um, literally go through each one of those things to get more land grab and power. And so it's like, you know, the belief system people already have, uh, they're now trying to, you know, use that and, and, and weaponize that to gain more, uh, usher us into the new world order. Yeah. I mean, there it is. I mean, they've, the last sense COVID, I think we could agree that we've lost, uh, just in humans as a whole, I've lost more trust in government than probably in human history. Yeah. Right. Well, in modern history. Yeah. In modern history. Right. The average person is like way less likely to. Right. And I would say a large percentage of those people fall in the, in the conservative, I, I, or religious group of people. Would you not agree? Uh, yeah. Right. No, you're right. So what better way to get, to try and get them distracted than to feed into demon, spiritual, all that direction and like that this eight, these aliens are like, why that is now the narrative. To me, it's like that will get those people like interested in the narrative like you are right now. But they got to use it for a reason. I mean, that's right. What would they do just the action before? That's, we won't know. We won't know till it's too late or till, or till after. I mean, that's not a bad theory. That's my thing. That's very, that's, I mean, I, because I, I think it's, I mean, they have to place a world leader. Like how are we going to get the antichrist? Yeah. See, you know, how are they going to do that? Otherwise you have to get everybody bought in. Yeah. And so it has to be from somewhere else. Here's what, here's why I'm moving. Hey, you only have to get everybody bought in if you think that it's for that reason. I think it's just purely a distraction. I think it's a, get away with something. Yeah, exactly. I think it's to get away with other things or maybe, I mean, that's been the game since day one. I mean, definitely we're obviously more concerned about this than we are Epstein. I mean, that's already, that's getting further and further behind us. You think they're going down the playbook? Like everybody's still talking about it. Yes. Yeah. We're almost there. You don't say we got, we got like, I don't want to forget about it. True. Like this is going to get the other half right here. This is going to get the last. And you look back at like, what was it the, um, uh, Playboy Mansion and everything else too. And they're finding like a lot of that was like a huge traffic. Oh yeah. Tunnels and all kinds of tunnels. Yeah. It's just like control celebrities and yeah. It was like Epstein before Epstein. Exactly. Yeah. So here's why I'm going, uh, in that demon, uh, you know, or, or, you know, the spirit world type of deal. Number one, they're saying they're interdimensional. So when you're saying interdimensional, the reason why they would say that to my theory, is so they can account for this spirit-like qualities of these entities. Okay. How do you explain it scientifically that they can do what they do? Oh, it's interdimensional. Whereas people who, uh, you know, uh, you know, read the Bible or like that's what the Bible talks about. Like that seems like the spirit world. The second reason is I've, oh, I've always thought alien stuff was cool. And when you look at, when you read, uh, all of the accounts that people have of abduction or experiences, they sound remarkably demonic. They'll present themselves. They'll try to communicate some new world spiritual vision. Uh, there's like a significant percentage. I remember what the number was, but it's huge of these people being abducted or being messed with. And then they, they, uh, invoke the name of Jesus and then they disappear. I feel like everybody should listen to that podcast with Sean Ryan and that exorcist. Oh. But, um, he, he outlines like the whole spirit world, like, and gives the whole hierarchy of everything and like what they're capable of. It's really fascinating. But yeah, to like your point, like they, they can mimic, you know, a lot of this explanation is like, um, you know, stuff that we've seen throughout history is just that, you know, it's been re re-branded. Yeah. Re-branded. Yeah. That, that, I think don't you guys all find it so crazy fascinating though that so this is, this all didn't happen in the last six month window, right? This is all, we have all kinds of, Well, they've been trickling it. They've been trickling it with more videos. I know, but what I'm saying is like, it's, but all that stuff is like, They start on the East coast with everybody recognizing these UFOs. And that's just to, again, They're warm enough up. So, they're condition us. Yeah, it's exactly. But so, so why choose to do it now and not 20 years ago or 10 years ago or just four years ago? Because that's the question I have. I got more power now. I have the, I have the, Do you really think that? Do you really think that all of a sudden they become more powerful right now? We now have the tools. We've uncovered it. Yeah. We now have the tools necessary to usher in real control over the world. We have AI, we have digital currency that they're selling. Infrastructure's there. Infrastructure's there. And they kind of had to warm us up. That's my, It's so funny. It's like, this sounds like a wild conversation, you know, like to have on a fitness podcast, but it's like the president's about to announce this kind of stuff, you know. So for us not to talk about it, it's kind of ridiculous in itself. Yeah, they bought the freaking URL alien.gov. What's going on here? Yeah. Yeah. Where are you at, Doug? Well, I'm not going to weigh in on this except the alien.gov. The alien.gov site. You know why? He hasn't been aging for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Are you working out pretty well for me? The inter dimensions. No, alien.gov is not an active website. No, they bought though a URL. Can you look that up? What did the White House bought a URL related to UFOs in the area? I could be wrong, but there was one that they did buy. I just, I find it really interesting that they're choosing now to be honest and tell us stuff. Yeah. There's no honest. No, there's, there's, there's, there's all deception to your point. I don't really know exactly what it is, but yeah, for sure it's a deception. I think it's in the book of Genesis. These fallen angels, they find human women attractive and they breed with them. What do alien abductions involve? Almost always some kind of breeding process. The way that they appear, the way that they speak, angels can appear in your dreams or speak into your mind. What do aliens do? Well, isn't it the whole like the Senator Matt Gaetz and somebody else was bringing up like some of these alien breeding, like, yeah, they're saying it, the programs. Like this is from a Senator. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, there you go. The government registered the domain alien.gov and aliens. So alien and aliens.gov in March, 2026. Yeah, they're not live though. Yeah, I told you though. They did something with it. Told you. Okay. You're right. I own it. Damn. They own it. So now they can profit off of all these people that are going to. They're not going to profit off a website. You think they're going to have ads on it? Yeah. Alien.gov would put a pass to do that for sale. Bunkers. Hey, what do you guys think? Let me ask you guys this. This, since we're having this fun conversation, what do you think the reaction from the population will be if indeed it does come out and if indeed they confirm? Listen, lackluster. If you don't think people are going to care. If you did not care enough about the Epstein files to even do a little bit of homework to know, like I have so many people connected to me, like family. There's your ass, not real. Yes. Like what? Here's why. And that was on a government site that you could go look at the emailing with names on it and conversations. Yeah, but here's why I think this is evidence. Evidence. Here's why I think this is different. Tell me why this is different. Because they are going to want us to talk about this. The reason why Epstein disappeared is because they need it disappeared. They're going to pump this like crazy. They're going to pump it until they don't need it. Okay. I mean, I guess. Okay. So like what makes you think too Epstein wasn't pumped for a certain amount of time and then now they don't, they don't need to know more. That's not a bad point. I mean, that's like, it's like, Okay. While they're pushing this out, while they're doing this, what do you think the reaction is going to be from people? You think they're going to? No, no. I still, back to my point, people are going to be confused. Bro, trafficking children and sacrificing kids. I know. It has to be the top for me of egregious, scary, bad, evil things. I'm less scared of demon aliens. Of course. Yeah. I am. I'm more scared of humans trafficking and killing children. Yeah, me too. That's, that's way more, that's way more evil tangible. It's more scary. Yeah. Way more scary. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, honestly, if these demon alien things have this power, they could have killed us already. It's like, I'm more worried about real humans we live with that, potentially do that. And then the fact that we don't care enough to put anybody in jail. Dude, so, do you, so you're, here's another thought. Everyone's asleep dog. Here's what's crazy though, by the way. Nobody's going to care. The pastors, the pastors that they brought to discuss this with were evangelical pastors. They didn't bring Catholic or Orthodox leadership. And I'll, I have a theory around that. I think personally, because of the way the, you know, evangelical churches are, there, there is no like strong hierarchy. There is no strong tradition, which is true. Now I go to a non-denominational, so I'm not talking crap, but I think it'd be harder to manipulate the Vatican and the Orthodox traditions and say, no, you're going to fall. So I feel like they're part of it. I feel like they took these pastors in that are not really genuine. Oh, I totally think that. We're going to put up. Yeah. Oh yeah. I totally think that too. Yeah. I don't think they're taking in real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's propaganda to espouse the flock. Well, look, it's not going to bro, it's not going to. I'll say this, look, I'm going to say this to our audience right now, because to prepare for this, you should just exercise, get real strong. Yeah. Because you don't know what's going to happen. Just take it. Come on. Follow a demon. Follow a maps program and print. He'd hype. It's not a metaphor anymore. Yeah. Really. Yeah. I mean, it would take. Can we make a side? It would take a. It would take a. It would take an independence movie day to like really get anybody going. Yeah. Like we would need like one of the ships, you know, coming over the skies like for. Right. And even then I think people would be like, I wonder if that's AI or a hologram. You know what? I mean, I would see. Remember the one that was like the comet that they were like, oh my God, this is like a ship that went around the sun and then slingshot it its way out. Yeah. Like why not then? Have you got. That would have been perfect. Yeah, dude. I don't know. I don't know. This will be interesting. I would definitely think this will be interesting. It'll be fun to talk. Do we have a timeline? It's coming soon because they just released the. The. They just said that you. To a theater near you. Yeah. Yeah. It's a movie. The world is a theater. Yeah. You know, it is. Absolutely. Oh, Project Blue Bean. That's what I was going to say. Are you familiar with that? Yep. I think you've talked about it before. Remind me what it is. So Project Blue Bean, which is how did we figure out, Doug, look it up. It's holographic imagery in the sky. So what they're going to do is they're going to project religious figures like Jesus, Buddha, wherever, whatever your religious figure is in the culture, they're going to. And all of them are going to communicate to them and say the truth is and they're going to say actually and then converge. And there's also technology in Project Blue Bean. Some people say that they that they could project voices. Do you sound voices? Yeah. They could like literally project voice like audio into your head. They can already do that. That's real technology that exists. Yeah. So what's the staged event? Scroll down, Doug. Let's see. So using holograms to project extraterrestrial beings, UFOs or religious figures, a second coming in the sky, the goal to induce global panic and hysteria. Forcing humanity to submit to a totalitarian world government, alleged use of specialized technology, sometimes linked to harp to project these images. Where did the theory come from? Does it make it up or was this like from the 1990s? Yeah. And someone come out. What if they're, what if they're just in Canada, I believe, and they tried to debunk it? It is a Canadian journalist. What if they're decevious like master plan like backfires on them? That because it all started with all this tech and getting us addicted to it. So with that, that all this stuff's going to happen. We're all going to be too busy scrolling. Uh-huh. Like, shit. We got them so addicted to their phones. They don't even care. They're not even looking up. This did work. Oh, dear. My name is vaporized. What? You start hearing trumpets. It's like it's on here. Let's see what happens. Anyway, let's change, change directions. That's a reveal we haven't lost. I know. So Adam, you have, I've seen you wear this jacket a few times. This is a Viori jacket. Yes. What's the name? Because every time I ask you. V1 coach jacket. Okay. Yeah. I looked at the clothes. Here's why I know because I ordered. I'm picked on up yet. I ordered the truffle one today. So they have a truffle colored one. They have a black one. They have an olive colored one. And then they have like this kind of blue color. So is it like light? It's like a light jacket. I love it. It's light. It's got this like velcro so I can make the wrist tighter, looser. It's got a pocket inside. Yeah. It's kind of windbreaker-esque. But I like it too because I mean, this is one of the things I love about Viori is a lot of their stuff, like depending on, like I'm wearing it in a sweats. I'm comfy today, right? Yeah. I can dress up. And you have the seaside sweats on. Yeah. Okay. I'm like, I'm Viori it out today, right? So good timing for an ad for them. I can dress it up or down because it's collared and it's sharp and it's buttoned up like that. I was gonna say if you put slacks on it. Oh yeah. If you were with like one of Justin's like meta pants or whatever that he likes, like with the kind of the slacky pants, you could put it on with a white shirt. And now it looks like sharp like dinner. I can go out to a nice dinner. That's one of the things I love about Viori is a lot of their gear. I can put it with different stuff to make it look fancy or I can be super comfortable and I don't look weird or overdressed. So it's like one of my favorite. But this jacket is probably my favorite piece. I see you wear it all the time. Yeah. It's probably my favorite piece that I've bought from there most recently. But I need another color. I need the other color. I need the truffle color what I went with when I'm wearing today. So I'll have it next time. All right. I got an annoying thing to talk about. So apparently I never, you guys ever go on Reddit? Oh God. I never do. I definitely don't like too far. I used to see back in the day. So that's where I've seen a lot of negative. I never go on there. But one of my friends is like, oh, there's a thread or a section in there about mine pump. And then they were, and I got to address this because it's super frustrating and annoying. And they're in some recent threads are talking about how you're constantly sending people to your coaches. Like when we answer people's questions, when people call in, that we're just trying to push them to our coaches. And that's the problem. It's so frustrating because here's the deal. Like the truth is we didn't offer coaching and personal training for a long time. And the reason why we didn't do that is because we, we have very, very high standards for coaches and trainers. And we knew if we went in that direction, it would take a lot of energy. A lot of it first. A lot of training on our end and good leadership on our end. Like we needed people in leadership positions to do this because the last thing we would want, we were all trainers for a long time. The last thing I'd ever want would be a trainer coach representing us that wasn't doing an excellent job. So we finally did it. It's been almost two years now. And here's why we recommend coaching. Nothing's better. We've said this for, for, I was just going to say, you know, the irony, the irony of this sell is when long before when the business first started, and the only way that we monetized was through maps, fitness products. One of the consistent things we would always say is, you know, he asked, this is great programming, these programs are, but nothing beats a good coach, a good coach and trainer. We have said that for 10 plus years. We need to coach the coach. About our own own programs. When we didn't have coaches to make money or do any of that stuff off of, we've stayed consistent with that. And we waited, like you said, for a very long time before we would even offer some of that. Now that we have it offered, it would be doing people a disservice when we, if we don't recommend it to some of the people that need it. If you listen to live callers too, I mean, what do we do? Eight, 12 a week or whatever like that. Not everybody needs it. Some people, it's straightforward. We give them an answer. We help them out. In fact, I'd say 50% of them are that way, but there's 50% of them that need real help. And that they need real guidance. And it's just like, Hey, you would benefit by seeing a coach. Here's the deal. So funny. Here's the deal. Like, and this is just the truth in our, in our industry. There's a lot of coaches and trainers out there. There's not a lot of really good ones. So if I have a family member that needs help, I don't just tell them, go work with a personal trainer. This is before we had coaches. I would say, here's what you do. Talk to a fitness manager at a gym, come back to me, let me know what happened. I'll help you pick a good coach because good coaches are valuable. Bad coaches are terrible. And unfortunately, there's a lot of bad ones out there. We just know that the ones that work here are really good. Because we hire, train, develop them. So that's why we, you know, the other part that annoys me about that is that, because I guarantee if we were offering coaching for free, those people wouldn't have a complaint. Like we go get a free coaching for the next year or whatever that they would have no problem, but it's because they charged. And the part that that's, it's annoying is that we have 40 employees that work for mind pump. Whether that person that we recommend you coaching does not put a dollar more or less in the four founders pockets. It funds that business, that side of the business. So whether that person decides to do it or not does not change our income. So the idea of this, like, oh, like we're trying to, to money grab or something. No, it's, it supports the coaches and trainers and the leadership team that runs that. And whether that person does it or not, doesn't affect us. Well, I'm just going to be super transparent. There's two things that we wanted to address with personal training coaching. One is the obvious one, really good coaches and trainers for, for customers, because they're so valuable. We were trainers for a long time and there's a lot of things we could do on this podcast. We can give great advice. We have five episodes a week and it's great. You listen to the episodes, it's going to help you. We get a lot of great comments and emails, but nothing comes close to a good coach. We were coaches. I know the impact I made when I did a good job with a client. It's life changing. So it's the best possible thing you can do when you, if you're trying to really solve your health and fitness issues and do it in a way where it lasts for the rest of your life. There's nothing more powerful. The other side of this was to be a coach and a trainer in this industry. It's tough. It's a tough industry and it's not, for often, for many people, it's not a good career. So I love fitness. I love doing all stuff. I want to be a trainer, but I also want to support my family and it's kind of a crapshoot. Where do I go? How do I build this? I can't make enough money to support my family. And so one of the reasons why there's not a lot of good coaches and trainers is there isn't this like straight forward way of really building a good business. So the two problems were, can we employ coaches and pay them well so they could build a life here and also provide good service? So yeah, you got to pay for it because we pay our trainers really well. Yeah, otherwise it wouldn't exist. We ask for the best. Yeah, I think it's bad to go on Reddit, dude. I just feel like the person, I mean, in fact, somebody told me though about it, they're like, you actually have a lot of really positive stuff on Reddit, which is not normal. Like having anything positive. Yeah, no, there is positive stuff, but then there's also like Q non-stuff and yeah, gets wild on there, dude. I mean, the people that are going to go on there and do their normally going on there to complain, very few people I take. I mean, so it's a surprise that there's actually some people that go on there to say positive things, but I got some, some, some up to date data on GLP use in the U.S. Oh, I heard something the other day. I'm about to bring to the podcast. So check this out. Let me pull up the step. What was the number I heard? Let me see. Okay. Let's see. In 2024, 5.8% of adults in the U.S. were on a GLP. Today, it's 12.4%. Almost tripled. 5.8 to 12.4 from 2024. It doubled in 18 months. It wasn't doubled. In 18 months. It exploded. The anti-obesity market, which is what they're calling it. You called what you said three out of four? I think you're going to probably, we're probably going to see my opinion between 50 to 70% of Americans on a GLP. 70s a lot. 50s a lot. 50s a lot. I mean, I don't, do you even think there's 50% of people care about being overweight? Well, what percentage of Americans are overweight? My point is, do you think that even 50% of those people care? Yes. I think they do. And I know that Trump just said that what's the insurance you get after you retire? Medicare. Medicare covers it now. Yeah. So Medicare is going to cover GLP? Yeah, that's huge. Insurance company is going to be forced to cover it more openly. Doctors are recommending a lot more now. So when that happens, 50%, for sure. You're looking at a medication that promises to solve what 15 other medications are trying to treat with like blood pressure and lip, blood lipids and all this other stuff. So I think so. Because look at it, bro, that's from 5.8 to 12.4 in 18 months. I mean, I think it's good. Oh, that's what it was. No, it was, okay, the stat was how many people per week were adding, adding on to GLP ones? Oh, yeah. It was, it's a crazy number. Well, Doug, what's the total? It was like, it's like, it's tens of thousands of people every week are starting. Well, how many adults are in the US? Like what's the population of adults in the US? Let's see what that's going to be. Because I want to see what 12.8%. I saw this. 12.4% of that is. Man, I wish I knew the number. I'll see you. See what that is. But, but they're saying that the global anti-obesity market is projected to go from 19 billion today to 104 billion by 2035. So in nine years, it'll quadruple. 267 million adults. Okay. So you're looking at what 30 million is that with 12? What would 12 point, what's 12.4% of 26.7? I'm just close to 30. How much? I'd say close. So almost 30 million adults right now, Adam, are on a GLP. Almost 30 million right now. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. One in eight adults. Right now. I'm looking for this number. Well, USC 700% increase over four years and a number of patients without. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Man, I saw the stat or it was a number. It was like, like, I don't quote me because I don't remember the exact number, but it was like 20,000 people, new people every week. Or just, yeah. Yeah, one one. Like it was, it was a big number. By the way, this is with the available GLPs are some agglutide, the more common ones, somagglutide and tersepotide. Redditrutide isn't even approved yet. When that comes out. Oh my God. Oh yeah. Because that and the data. People are all antsy for one. Crushes the, crushes the other two. Yeah. So that's good. Well, they just came out with the orals, right? Which I'm sure is. I don't know how effective they are. I don't know either, but I know. Ushered people in. They're, and the orals are like, so right now it's a NBA playoffs. I'm watching a lot of the game stuff. A lot of the advertising right now are all the companies that do the oral and they have all kinds of celebrities that are promoting it. Oh yeah. I wonder how effective the oral ones are for versus because with the injected injectable ones, it's like a once a week, like insulin needle infection, but still that still stops people. So when they have like an effective oral version, yeah, for sure. So if it went from 5.8 to 12.4 in 18 months, it's definitely within the realm of reason to think that that number could get up to 50% in like 10 to 15 years. Well, here, I'm going to send you a solid chart in our group thread right now that it shows a chart on it. Let's produce it. Yeah. I can't find the exact numbers, but it was, it was alarming. I was like, wow, that's a lot. So what I think is going to happen is I think this is going to usher in. Different coaches though. It's going to usher in an explosion of demand for personal trainers, coaches, and for gyms. Yeah. Well, it should be standard that you have to train, you know, as you embark on it. When this first happened, I remember a lot of trainers were like, and gym owners were afraid like, oh no, no one's going to want to work out anymore. I think more people, more people are going to want to work out. Is there a popular medication or drug that is prescribed by doctors when someone comes in with osteoporosis? There's a few, there's a few popular ones, but they're not that great. Yeah, it doesn't matter. No. I would, I would, I would bet on the, on the ticker on that. Oh, just because you think people are going to get more prescribed. Of course. Because it doesn't matter. It's what the doctor will default to because you got to understand that, you know, cause a rise in personal trainers and so with that, because just simply millions of more people will need it. 10% of those people go to trainers. The other 90% will just go to their doctor and be like, oh my God. I have osteoporosis. What do I do here? Take these medications. What happened? How effective are osteoporosis drugs? No, it doesn't even matter. And they've got crazy side effects. It doesn't matter, dude. Yeah. I think what's going to happen is more people are going to work out for two reasons. One, the obvious ones. I'm losing muscle. Doctor says I need to. Here's the other one. When you're overweight, let's say you need to lose 70 pounds and then you lose 50 pounds. You got, you suddenly become a little bit more motivated. Highly effective. Yeah. Highly effective. 25% to over 50% decrease in fractures, but I don't see a huge reversal of. Oh, I mean, but that right there, that's enough Sal to get people taking it. Okay. So now look up to me. Look up for me, the leading companies that sell those drugs. I've heard of the risk, drone aid or whatever. You're going to start throwing money at them. Don't bet on, don't put money on what Adam says. Yeah, I know. Remember what happened last five years? You know what, I won't do it. I'll talk about it. I won't do it. So for everybody else. Yeah, I'll buy it. So everybody else can go make money. Because if I buy it, it won't happen. I'll do everybody a solid. That would, I mean, right away that's where my brain goes because let's be honest. Even though there's going to be a huge surge in personal trainers and people that need help like that, that will still only be a percentage. Here's where I'll put the money. Which company is making red or true, red or true tide? It's in phase three right now. So let's see what company that's the company. Is there a little crush? I don't more than no, it's only one company who has. Yeah. So if you buy it at a compound for, let's say you go to Eli Lilly. Let's say you go nphormose.com and they'll have, they have tersepatite and some aglutide. Oh, it is Eli Lilly. So there you go. So there you go. They've already skyrocketed. Sure. Everybody's projecting that through the roof. So that's who I would put my. What is, what is, what is their ticker at? What is their ticker Doug? Eli Lilly's ticker. I don't know. It's, I looked at them a while ago because I was going to and they were already. I, I, yeah, I was looking at, I'm looking at companies that are going to have a GLP ones like Eli Lilly. LLY. Yeah. And there is $991. Yeah. I'm looking at those companies. I'm also looking at companies that are researching myostatin inhibiting drugs and muscle building drugs that are non hormonal because I think those are the ones that. Oh, they actually might not be a bad buy right now. Boop. Don't get it. They would have been a, they would have been a great little purchase about right on that, that dip we just had. They would have been a nice buy. Yeah. They were down at 934 for a minute, but they've been, they've been averaging. I think what you're going to see is you're going to see a flood, a huge surge for people interested in gyms. I see personal training because of all these new motivated people who are on a GLP because I've already talked to a lot of people who want to work out because they lost weight, not because they're, they're afraid of losing muscle, but rather than just like, yeah, now I feel motivated because I can finally lose weight. Now I want to work out. So I think you can see that. I also think it's going to fuel what's already happening in the gym industry, which is the more expensive gyms because you have all these people with, and they're going to want a nicer gym plan to get off the GLP one as well. Yeah. I think it's going to be a huge boom to the fitness industry. Yeah. That's what I think. I mean, it has to. Yeah. I mean, how long it'll take and what percentage of people, I mean, that's unknown, but there'll, there'll be enough people that will be forced into having to lift weights. So many people are going to do it wrong and going to need help. So yeah, we're going to be here for them. Unless, unless this is like one, this is a little wrench in it, the aliens show us something else. I mean, they may do that. We can solve all these. I was laughing because there was, I got this, this like request. We're selling our house right now and like, they're like, you know, asking details of like things that are, you know, we pay for services and whatnot. And somebody was like, do you guys have DSL? I was like, DSL dude, like, like dial up. Like that's like the oldest. Is that DSL? Is that what he's asking? DSL. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Where do you, 19, like 91 do a DSL? I was like, do you want a fax machine? Do you want me to throw in a fax machine? Well, man. Was it some real old signals? It's like a really old person. I don't, I must have been. Yeah. I was like, this is so weird. I would never like have thought of a request for DSL. It's a broad bad internet technology that transmits high speed data over existing copper. Maybe you could use normal. Does this still, it still exists? Well, maybe Justin, it's evolved. Maybe a DSL is no longer just dial up. Maybe it's not, well, it says it's broadband internet now technology. So it's just, it's competitor. Wow. Are we like cheaper to missing something here? Because I would, I hate XFIN. You guys know we were working with a company that Doug had to go send them information and they requested fax only when taking email. So Doug had to go fax. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of places that still use that. Why? How? Yeah. I think even like nobody owns you anymore. Do you actually like legitimate fax or do you scan and then send? I usually scan. Yeah. Use a fax service. Yeah. But they have. But it's legitimately a fax. Why? Yeah. I don't know. Let's bring back faxing. I think faxing. Yeah. Faxing and faxing. Fax me. Let's do it. Can you write me a letter? Yeah. Fax me. Let's do that. Let's talk about a super food. Now look, I'm normally skeptical of anything marketed as a super food. Manuka honey is the one thing that has the science behind it. So most honey is basically just sugar. It's just a lot of sugar. Manuka is in a different category entirely. It comes from bees that feed off of the Manuka tree in remote New Zealand. And the bioactives from that plant transfer directly into the honey. So it has three times as many antioxidants and prebiotics than regular honey. Plus MGO. This is a naturally occurring antibacterial compound that's unique to Manuka. No other honey has it. 70 to 80% of your immune system lives in your gut. Prebiotics feed the good bacteria. This isn't a supplement you add. It's a food that does work. One teaspoon in the morning is all it takes. That's the protocol. Simple, repeatable and sustainable. It's a habit that makes a big difference. So go to manukora.com slash mind pump. That's M-A-N-U-K-O-R-A.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump. You can save up to 31% plus $25 worth of free gifts with the starter kit. The kit comes with an MGO 850 plus Manuka honey jar, five honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon and a guide box. One more time. It's manukora.com forward slash mind pump. And the code is mind pump. Back to the show. Our first caller is Billy from New Jersey. Billy, what's happening? How you doing, Billy? Oh, yeah. What's going on, guys? How you doing? Yeah. How can we help you? I'm good. This is surreal. I feel like I'm really here. That's nuts. Nothing. Obviously, my name is Billy from New Jersey, 34 years old. I guess I'll just talk a little about myself. 61220. I've been listening to you guys since like right before COVID started and pretty much been going from there. And you know, there's been following your programs ever since then. I don't know if you guys can see all the programs. I've bought it pretty much by everything you guys put out, which is awesome. Right now, currently in Maps 8, love it. I think it's just an amazing program. Also, I guess my main question would be my ankles. I have, since I was early 20s, I guess I lost the arch in my foot. So I pretty much have like a flat foot, as funny as that sounds. On both feet. So it kind of prevents me from doing squats fully. It's mainly me just doing box squats. I know you guys talked about box squats before saying like you don't really get as much added as a full squat. So I guess one of your guys opinion is like where I should go about trying to improve that. Yeah, good question Billy. And just to be clear, it's pretty darn close. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't improve or seek out to improve places where you have mobility challenges. So the arch of the foot does provide some stability. The foot's got a lot of muscles. But then what typically follows a fallen arch or flat foot is ankle mobility issues. They typically go hand in hand. Do you have Prime Pro? I know you said you have a lot of our programs. You have Prime Pro? I do not. Okay. I'm going to send that to you. So in Prime Pro, do the foot and ankle mobility movements and practice them throughout the day. So short foot, piano, toes, yeah, and things like combat stretch. And just practice them regularly. Continue to do box squats. And then when you start to feel like you're ready, start to practice traditional squats go really light. And what you want to do when you're doing the traditional squats, once you get good at short foot, so that's a movement that you're going to feel really weird. It's going to feel like you can't even do it. But once you feel like you can do it, then what you're going to do is you're going to get into a squat with lightweight. You're going to do a little short foot. So you're going to activate the arch of your foot, kind of ground your feet, and you're going to practice really slow controlled shallow squats and work on a range of motion without going heavier while maintaining that strong arch in the foot. But it's going to take some time. Probably a good six months to 12 months of strengthening and practice really make a difference. During that time, would you recommend or allow him to use like squat shoes? Totally. I mean, he could. So I do use squat shoes now. Okay, you're fine. Yeah, you're fine. To do it. Yeah. So I, because any advantage I need, because I don't know how this happened, like I got it diagnosed when I was like 21. So I've been dealing with this forever now. So it's more common than you think. Yeah. Yeah. We've had a lot of, oh yeah, I've had a lot of clients like that. So it's, yeah, it's pretty common, dude. So if, yeah, it's just there's muscles in the feet that provide that arch. And it's just, it's literally a strength training exercise. Yeah. They're under stimulated. They're, you know, you're wearing shoes that are kind of limiting your range of motion. So if you walk around the house with bare feet, it's going to help a lot just to, you know, reconnect. But, you know, like you say in those drills, another good one is to like, you know, get a towel and kind of squeeze between your toes and pull. And that's an exercise on its own to kind of work your way into short foot. Short foot's a really hard one to kind of conceptualize. But once you do get that, you'll, you'll be able to make progress in that direction for sure. Billy, do you, do you make an effort to walk around barefoot much? I walk around barefoot all day. Oh, okay. So now here's the thing though, here's the thing though, Billy, if you walk around barefoot without trying to actively engage your arch, it won't do anything. Yeah. I'm not, you know, you know, I really think about doing it. You kind of just like just walking around, you know, so it doesn't make sense. When you practice short foot, and you start to get good at it, it'll take a little while, because at first it's going to feel like you can't even activate. Yeah. But then as you start to get good, you say, oh, okay, there it is. I can think I'm moving it. And then once you start to get good at it, while you're walking around the house, just whenever it comes to mind, just try to activate your arch while you walk. I mean, you can even do it when you're, I mean, I'm, I'm doing it in my shoes right now as we sit here and talk. So once you learn to do this, you can be sitting at the desk, working, doing your thing, and you could, you could just be practicing. And the more you do that, the better this will get. So it's just, it's more of a repetitive thing of just constantly thinking about it and doing it. But prime, the movements in Prime Pro will help you out. Practicing on that will help you out. You're already doing the, you know, squat shoes. That's a good way to get a little bit more range of motion right now, but keep working on it. You can definitely improve this. Oh yeah. You can make, yeah. There's a belief that flat, that when you're flat footed, that's it. Yeah, no. You're stuck. No. You totally fix this. Yep. You can totally, you can make a big difference in the strength and stability of your foot. It just takes time. So it'll take you a billy. Like, like I said, six months to a year to really notice big improvements. And you'll, you'll just notice, you'll just start feeling it while you're walking and standing. Like, oh, there, don't overdo it. You know, it's just kind of like a more frequency thing. Yeah. It's like the bucket, right? Yeah. Exactly. Bucketing you guys to talk about. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly, dude. Yep. Okay. All right.哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎 I guess I guess the question I'm trying is I just want to get I want to get strong but I Only have time to do like that maps eight style. Yeah, I do have that 15 with the power lift but I Don't know how to go about it or I should try to put it to the side and just focus on just doing like maps eight style Just not as much as intensity because of the baby and work and everything. Yeah, what do you guys think about? No, that's it stick to maps eight. Yeah when you feel good You got good sleep you push the intensity a little bit push it a little, you know Progressively overload if you can when you don't you just go in and practice the movement. I mean you got a new baby, dude So you got you got a good year of suboptimal You know sleep and a lot stuff, but that's okay It's just a season but you go in the group you go in the you go in your basement and you're like man I got crappy sleep last night So I'm just gonna go through the movement and then you're like man. I got good sleep for a couple nights in a row I feel good you push yourself a little bit. That's it. Okay, okay Perfect. Yeah, perfect. Well, thank you for everything guys. I got it man. Thanks for calling in dude. We'll send that to you. Yeah Awesome. Thank you so much. Take it easy man. Easy man recording. Yeah, that's great You know, I'm glad he said that because I had very flat feet Yeah, and I still have some issues but through doing things like short foot and awareness the very first time we were short You guys remember when bring showed a short foot. I think we all sucked at that. Yeah, it didn't work I'm like what I can't do that. Like there's nothing there no connection At all but now I can do it. I actually have a connection to it So now when I'm aware I can Activate the arch and if I squat it's definitely something unconscious of and it does change my technique I've definitely because I changed my shoes typically I wear minima shoes that really helps a lot to be aware Yeah, and have the white toe box the cool part about this is like you said is that if you it takes you know Six months a year of consistently putting work towards it But once you do that, it's like what I talk about with my my whole mobility kick Yeah, it took a long time to Really get that squat depth and ankle mobility and hip mobility, but then once I got it maintaining It's actually really easy. It's just a few things I just had to be aware of it and keep up some exercises that I do Occasionally and it'll keep it up. It's like and you won't lose it again, but it's the work to get there It's just seems a little laborious. Yeah, our next caller is Adam from South Dakota. What's up, Adam? Yes, it's pretty cool Just want to say thank you guys for taking the time do this. I mean, it's really fun to listen to the podcast and All the knowledge you guys put out. It's really cool. Thanks, man. How can we help you? So right now kind of in between I'm kind of finishing up maps performance right now But it's kind of harder to do the three days a week. I normally split it up to Five or six days a week kind of try to turn it into like a maps 15 performance Just a little backstory. I just had a baby about six months ago now. So it's kind of tough to Kind of count on getting a full night of sleep I don't I mean, I don't do half the stuff that she does in the middle of the night, but still like Here in the next room and stuff like that kind of kind of cuts off the sleep so it'd be nice to do a little bit more of a 15 program and Kind of trying to chase some strength goals for this year. So I was looking at either maps 15 strong or Powerlift and I was just wondering if I get your guys opinion on kind of wish it would be the best to go forward with yeah, good question. I'm looking at your question here, too and You said you're also doing jiu-jitsu. Is that still happening? Yeah, yeah, and it depends on the week normally two to three days, but Yeah, still still doing that. Okay, and part of your question was how you maintain mobility while getting stronger Is that still part of your question? Yeah, okay, so this is actually easy Okay, if you're doing jiu-jitsu You're gonna maintain mobility as you get stronger. So you just got to keep doing jiu-jitsu now What would happen the reason the way you would lose mobility is If you stop doing jiu-jitsu completely or let me correct what I'm saying The way you would lose mobility for jiu-jitsu would be to stop doing jiu-jitsu and then just start train train You start losing the skills of how you move and all that stuff. So as long as you're doing jiu-jitsu getting stronger At the same time is gonna be fine Maps 15 power lift would be great for you But the way you would follow it is I don't think you should work out more than Maybe four or five days a week What I mean by that is if you do jiu-jitsu one day a week then follow the then the other four days You do math 15 power lift if you do jiu-jitsu three days a week Then you only do two days a week of maps 15 power lift and you just follow the next procession Of the routine the following week in other words the routine is laid out. I think six days a week But if you only do two of those weeks then you just continue on with the following weeks with that with whatever is left over And that's it. It's very easy very simple, but more than five days a week Maybe even more than four days a week might be too much with jiu-jitsu and a newborn. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah So that's that's it. Yeah, very very Oh, sorry, so you're saying kind of lean towards four days a week and then like kind of if I feel good Maybe throwing a fit day in yeah, exactly more so that just I would just base it off how much jiu-jitsu you do So get say say you're only allowed to work out You know five or six days tops or five or six workouts a jiu-jitsu workout counts as a workout So if you do two of those workouts or jiu-jitsu then take away two of the maps 15 days Yeah, so you understand okay, if you do one yeah, so so Volume will be Appropriated and it's probably gonna look like four or five days a week total because I know jiu-jitsu is pretty strenuous on the body So I think I think look at four or five days a week total and then you just trade You just pick what you're gonna do that week So if I go to jiu-jitsu today, then I'm not doing maps 15 power lift But if I don't go to jiu-jitsu tomorrow, then I'll pick the workout for maps 15 power lift and just keep in mind We always talk about this. It's not what you can tolerate. It's what's ideal and optimal for you Right, so you might be thinking like well, I feel like I can do six days I'm sure you can do it But what's probably ideal for you if you want to maintain or actually build strength during this time? Yeah is you balance What you're doing with jiu-jitsu with your weight train doing more is not necessarily gonna give you more results if you're getting stronger You know, maybe not consistently because that's not realistic But if you find yourself generally getting stronger then you're doing great If you find yourself just kind of maintain in and you're doing a lot or even going backwards a little bit You might be doing too much Yeah Okay, sounds good. So so if it's Something where like maybe jiu-jitsu is not very strenuous that day Like kind of just doing drilling and then not a lot of people stay after for like kind of live roles Would you still consider that a workout day or is it just kind of it's got to get intense to count that? No, I would still count it that because you have a baby and you're sleeping that good. Yeah, it's a big strong That's a strong consideration dude is the lack of sleep Really takes a lot away from your recovery a lot. It's actually when they do studies on injury the The the greatest increase in risk of injury is lack of sleep. It's it's more than like no warm-up It's more than bad form. It's actually lack of sleep Injury risk goes to the roof. So If your sleep is just you know Inconsistent suboptimal, which is normal when you have a new baby, then you just got to take that into consideration But you know your babies what would you say six months old? Yeah, yeah, so you got another maybe three to six months of that and then after that sleep will probably get better And then you can start ramping it up a bit Okay, yeah, so so if I have I don't know maybe three or four days that like I could go to jujitsu But I'm going two days out of it. Would it be better if I don't get Like an ideal night of sleep like maybe just stick to a workout that day and then try for jujitsu later on the week If if I do get better sleep depends on how you do jujitsu so, you know, I was I did jujitsu for a long time and There were definitely times wrong like you know what I'm gonna go easy today. Yeah, and then you go full throttle And then you get caught up, you know, you start sparring with somebody And you just so it depends on you dude how disciplined you are like if you can go in there and just do a light roll It's perfectly fine But if you know yourself you're like look that ain't me dude like night light rolling just doesn't work It ends up getting out of hand Then you might want to skip it and then same thing with the strength training There's nothing wrong with going just going and practicing versus really pushing yourself Okay sounds good and then Like is there the are the 15 ones structured differently at all or is it kind of laid out the same? because I mean, I know the other programs like performance it says like you want to hit a certain percentage of Like the weight with these amount of reps is it is it still structured the same power lift is like Yeah power lift has some of that in there, but it's not super important you can totally go by feel how long you've been working out I mean Probably like 10 15 years Feel you're fine. Yeah, totally go by feel someone like you I wouldn't I don't worry about percentages Because there's gonna be times you're like well today I'm supposed to do 90% but man I don't feel good like go go by percentages. Yeah, that's the really power lifts only time that really matters But even in our 15 we don't really focus on that as much because it's really low volume By the way strong would be great too So what we'll do is we'll send you power lift and then I'll make sure Doug sends you a bunch of discounts for other 15s That might be good for you Okay, sweet. Thank you. And then another real quick question it would Um power lift be something good like because I I know it's like a little bit longer Rest sets would that be something that like we could do together for our workouts and like while I'm resting She does a set and then yeah kind of changing the back and forth. She's six months postpartum. Yeah So I think starter would be more appropriate for her Okay, yeah, just have her run a cycle of starter Uh and then have her jump into power lift afterwards. Uh because she's she's just six months Plus she said something in the beginning that she probably gets worse sleep than you do Yeah, yeah, so I I'd have her go for a cycle of starter You know, um low back and hip pain and stuff gets really common postpartum Just because of what happens during pregnancy and birth and all that stuff and starter is is much better for that Once she gets back to normal though, she can definitely do that. Yeah, probably a year out Like, you know, then she's great, dude. That doesn't mean she won't make gains on starter. By the way, she's gonna make progress still Okay, sounds. Yeah, because that's that's her. I mean, I've had a pretty tough time trying to even convince her to do Like a 30 minute workout. She used to do Two hours a day for oh, yes Okay, you have your work cut out Yeah, I know trust me. I'm trying so it's like if I can Steer in a direction where it's like because she'll work out for 30 minutes I'm like, well, this isn't compare anything to what it was when I did two hours. Yeah Well, no crap. There's a big No crap, dude, but you know what she's also just a reminder. She's got muscle memory. She was trained like crazy before The mistake that fit that really fit women make postpartum Is they compare themselves and and their workouts to what they were doing before way too soon Yeah, and it takes it takes a lot longer than people realize for For a body to kind of get back to normal. She'll feel good Soon if she's not already but she's still not quite where she was pushing too hard. We'll actually set her back That's right. That's she needs to kind of consider that. Yep Okay, sounds good and then uh Is there any way I could get this recording so I could I could play for her That advice from someone else For sure Yeah, so when it airs then you can just be like, hey honey, check it out. Yeah, plus you can go So there's there's a quite a few episodes where I talked about this exact challenge when Katrina after we had max She wanted to jump back into maps aesthetic and I had to I forced her to do map starter I talk about that a few times in the podcast if you go to uh, ask mind pump.com and use the ai It'll probably find you all those clips of that discussion so you can hear me talk About my wife wanting to do more and me explaining to her why she just needs to do Map starter and the benefits of that so you can look that way. But so that plus Doug will you'll get this live in may 15th Okay, sweet. Thank you guys. All right, Billy. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in Yep, thank you. Yep record. You know, I like about what he said. It was real humble in the beginning He's like, you know, I'm not getting good sleep. But you know, my wife's doing a lot of it It was a really nice thing for him to say but uh, which would be good when she listens to well Keep talking because he knew he's gonna be listening Better get that right But you know, you know when people are playing a sport And they're strength training at the same time. Yeah, you know, there's always the question of mobility. Am I gonna get tight? Am I gonna lose function? If you're concurrently practicing the sport and you're doing everything with appropriate volume because the other mistake is that you Overdo every you just over the muscle ball myth comes in. That's right. Like if I'm still playing soccer or football or jiu-jitsu or whatever While appropriately strength training because you could also overdo it Then the whatever strength gains I get will get implemented and incorporated into my movement If I take three months off Go strength train build some strength and muscle then go back play my sport now I'm clumsy Because I've got new strength my body's a little different throws things off a bit might feel tight So it's like just keep doing both. Yeah, if it's important to you you want to maintain that skill by just light drills and going through the Movement so it doesn't have to be with intensity but To maintain your body's recognition of those movement patterns is really essential I think the hardest thing to convey to a person like this is more to do with this So he's been lifting for 10 to 15 years. Sounds like he's got a it sounds like he's also married somebody who is very fit Yeah fitness related and active Does jiu-jitsu works out god. He's got great. We didn't name it do all his numbers But he squats deadlifts good weight like he's strong You know telling that person that you know a map 15 and take some days off on map 15 sounds like Are you sure like if I what if I only do this much into jitsu? It's like that'll be the greatest challenge from is because he'll have the desire to do more thinking that more is going to get you More results and this that's the hardest thing to tell somebody who's used to doing so much Training volume that it may not suit you Or serve you with the lack of sleep that you have plus what you're already doing with jitsu Totally but yet just to make the other point again. I'll say it differently If you took an athlete because I think we tend to negate the skill aspect sometimes with sport sometimes Like the skill is the most important thing obviously like if it was just about being strong bodybuilders will be the best athletes It's not there's it's a skill If you snap your fingers and make an athlete 10 stronger instantly They're going to go out in the field and suddenly be slightly off Because they're used to moving in a particular way and now timing is off a little bit Things are off a little bit and you actually start to train skill deceleration that kind of you know that whole balance It's shifted so it's so important to do them both at the same time so that they can grow together Our next caller is jenny from new jersey. Hi jenny. Hi jenny. Hello guys How can we help you? I feel like I know you already, but it's nice to Sort of meet you for real Thank you. Thank you. How can we help you? Um, so first of all, um, as usual, I want to thank you guys for all the great content you put out I'm a lover of learning about all things exercise So your podcast has been one of my number one sources these days and you guys are very much appreciated I'm going to read my question and there is a little addendum that I have at the end So i'm a recovering cardio addict. I spent the last seven years doing very little strength training And a whole lot of endurance running Two marathons nine half marathons and three pregnancies and postpartums later I think i've officially burnt myself out I've been listening to the podcast for a couple of years and i've heard you tell Countless callers to cut back on the running and i'm finally ready to take this advice myself My question is or one of my questions are Should I still limit the amount of walking and other low-impact cardio? I do to try to get the most muscle gains as I focus on lifting I know you guys give walking the green light, but with my personality and background I will take a two mile leisurely walk and turn it into a five mile hike at any chance I can get I also am trying to gain a little bit of weight. I had a recent dexa in february That put me at 19.1 body fat and I know I feel a little bit better with a little bit more meat on my bones So i'm trying to figure out how do I know if i'm overdoing it physically Even though I feel like what i'm doing mentally is not enough compared to what i'm used to And then my little update is um since my dexa two months ago. I've gained about four pounds I'm filling out my clothes again in a way that I like and I feel like i'm on the right track with my body composition But it's really just the mental aspect that i'm still struggling with. I found that since i'm running less Usually once a week if that I'm trying to find other ways to move my body and i'm getting a little bit compulsive with it Like going for a couple walks a day taking the dog for a walk Um, I feel like I've sort of developed two identities So there's the lifter who wants to lift eat and recover And then there's the runner who was always rewarded by doing more Which i'm learning is not always the best case anymore Um and social media doesn't help because my algorithm is constantly showing me hybrid athletes who can do it all Which makes me feel like I can do it all too And then I end up exhausted at night trying to take care of my three kids and I regret my decision to even try Um, I've basically just been feeling pretty run down. I had labs done last week that were all normal so at this point i'm pretty sure it's self inflicted and I'm taking a deload this week trying to get my figure out my uh Where I want to go from here so Any advice would be welcome as I try to navigate this transition from Being a runner to a lifter while still Trying to enjoy both aspects of the different modalities Yeah, yeah Just question on the um any uh, you track the steps when you when you do these days or you walk all What are you asking? I hope for kormin watch and my typical um steps are between like 12 and 15 thousand a day That's an active day and then I shoot for 8,000 minimum. So even on a rest day, it's 8,000. Okay. It's not bad Okay, I thought you were gonna say something crazy like 27,000 plus. I think we need to calm down all the walks Walking is good. Um, you know, obviously you don't want to be neurotic about it and obsessive Um, and it should be something more leisurely and stuff like that So it's it sounds like you're mindful of that you can see yourself getting away with it But 12 to 15 thousand steps is not bad. It's not it's not like a obsessive crazy I've had clients before that, you know, it's 20 000 plus and it's like that's all they do is they constantly have to be moving And it sounds like you you're an active person and it sounds like you're moving The the right direction. Are you following any of the maps programs right now? I'm not right now. Um, well, I I have not yet. I should say I work from I work out from home So I'm limited. I have a barbell. I have plates, um a bench, but I don't have a rack So I'm kind of limited. I can really only lift what I can pull up What I can like power clean. So, um And I've done bells and kettle bells So I wasn't really sure what would be an appropriate program with my limited, um equipment We have dumbbells of a lot of our program I first thought I got to say that you're a self-awareness and the way you communicated everything was amazing So it gives me a lot of yeah, like this is like very hopeful like I'm very hopeful Uh, because the way you communicated your struggles and challenges with all this was so good It was such great self-awareness. So that's the good news. The bad news is the answer to your last question, which is How do I know if I'm still overdoing it and you're not going to That's not something that you have a sense of yet Uh, so your best bet there's a couple directions we can go with this One road is to Focus on just getting stronger And that's gonna kind of that can kind of be a north star. It's not perfect But it's hard to get stronger and overdo it. Uh, and often you won't get stronger if you're overdoing things So if you're getting stronger, it's a good sign. That's what I'm saying The better road is to work with a coach and then let them coach you through this process So you can relearn or learn What it feels like To do it in an appropriate way and what that means is you trust them because you're gonna always feel like you're not doing enough This is just your this is just how you are Right now like for you right now doing an appropriate amount feels like way too little so I've continued to cut back and despite cutting back and then I look at my numbers and I think I'm cutting back And then my activity numbers show that I'm still Getting just as much activity in per week that I was I'm just doing it in a different way. So like I'm cheating myself Yeah, see you're so self-aware. It's so great. So you're just you just can't trust your feelings because your feelings are uh oriented orientated towards doing too much So, uh, when you work with a coach, you trust them you work with them for let's say six months You're like, all right, tell me what to do and I'll just do it Tell me what to do and I'll just do it and the whole time you're like this feels like way too little I'm feels like I'm eating way too much and you just kind of trust and then you'll start to really learn like Oh, okay. This is what it feels like and well, I'm starting to feel good and I have energy at night The one thing that you said that is really uh that I really appreciate that I think is important to focus on Is less about how many steps you're taking and whether or not that's too much It's hey man at the end of the day when I'm taking care of my kids. I'm exhausted And so your numbers could look great But if you're feeling like you can't do that job at night that you that you obviously value then it's probably too much So if you're feeling exhausted, it's probably too much whatever the numbers are It's just too much and taking care people don't people don't have kids Especially people who don't have multiple kids don't understand just how much work it is just how much mental work it is and just and it definitely is something that that uh That hampers recovery and all that stuff and you got how old are your kids? Um four two and fifteen months. Yeah, good luck. It's it's this is a lot. It's a lot So, you know walking 15 000 steps and lifting weights to do a plus taking care of three kids is like It's going to burn you out. Uh, so, uh, those are the two things So one direction let's just just see if we can get just keep focusing on getting stronger Use that as your gauge If working with a coach is an option for you. I could have someone call you Uh, that's the best option and then they'll they'll really guide you Kind of through this process the other thing I too. I want to ask you that would help with this is Is and I think I know the answer but I just want to be sure Is the connection to movement A body image thing or is it more of a I don't like to sit still It's more of a mental. I don't like to sit still. Okay, so let's take it So does it help with anxiety racing mind? Like sitting still feels like you just want to drive yourself crazy I think I just strive to be The healthiest version of myself. So I always feel like more Movement like I work from home. So I do sit During the day and I'm working sometimes I'll take my laptop put it on the treadmill to get my steps in I just want to Be the healthiest version of myself that I can and I know that there is a upper limit to How much movement I can do while accomplishing that? Um, but it's not it's not body image because I've I found the more I'm lifting Actually, the better my body image is becoming I sort of Building myself in a way that I've never done before because I've always kind of just ran and felt like I was breaking myself down so it's been a refreshing change of um To me for me to exercise in a different way. So yeah, it's more just like You're doing to want me to take care of myself. You're doing you're doing really good You you seem really smart and you seem like someone I can challenge. Is that okay? Do you mind if I challenge you a little bit? Yeah, if it was health Uh, I don't think you'd be overdoing it right now Yeah, so it might not be health. I think in your mind it's health But in your in your heart or your body, it might be more like I don't like to sit still because I feel like What I'm not being productive. I'm not I'm not Doing something I should be doing something. I'm being lazy or I'm anxious So that's that's where I think you want to go because if it was health You wouldn't overdo it. I don't know when to limit it. Yeah It's only been recently that I felt Physically like my routine is wearing me out though I don't know if it's because now I have my mom of three and I'm in my mid 30s And I just don't recover like I used to but All the above you know what this might look like to to get to where Sal's going Like if I was coaching or if you were getting coached what it would look like is we would I would see what a normal week of This activity looks like and you've told me some things already where you Walk while you work with your your treadmill desk. You go out for a walk or a couple walks So I let you kind of have a week like that to assess and see where we're moving what we're doing And then I might challenge you the next week. Okay, what I want to do is Let's cut out that evening walk that you do every every night for this long or without that But leave everything else the same and then I want to know how you feel when I made you do that Like how did you feel when I wouldn't let you go for your you know Six p.m. Or whatever your last walk or thing is And then that'll help us get to the bottom of what's driving you to go do that when I'm like you don't need it You've already made plenty of steps. We lifted weights. You're healthy So what is making you want to go do that? And then that would help us get to the bottom of The feelings that you're having and then trying to work through that and then focus on the getting strong thing and so it might be this this slow process of Pulling back a little bit on it assessing what's going on with you how you're feeling And then then connecting the dots because if if I do my job good and I and I scale you back You should see an increased energy level with your kids and sleep and all those other things And so hopefully you then can connect the dots of this is what healthier Then you start to like it. Yeah, and then you like that how you feel and it's like, okay This is all I need. I don't need to be doing 15,000 steps I can do a 8,000 step day and that's still active with my lifting and all my kids I'm chasing around and be very healthy and fit is is coaching Something that that you'd be interested in I can have someone call you Yeah, yeah, I would definitely consider it. Okay. Let me have a coach call you In worst case scenario, we'll send you a program that I think would be appropriate. Yeah, massive team protocol Yeah, massive team would probably be the best workout for you But I thought But I'll have a coach call you but I want to tell you have like when I work when we work with clients There's an attitude And a self-awareness that if I hear it, I'm like, this is gonna work You have that like for you're gonna succeed for sure. You've got the self-awareness. You've got the right attitude It's the biggest hurdle you're gonna do really really well You're already on the right track. Yeah, you are I think it's just it's the runner in me I've heard you guys say before you know when you're doing aerobic and endurance It's always more and more more is better more miles more time And when you shift to strength work, it's that's not the case So I'm just trying to kind of dull that part of my brain and relearn how to Exercise in this we've got to create a new identity. You've identified as a runner You've identified as a runner for a decade, you know, and so Yeah, and and so it sounds like that's what this is and it just takes a little bit of time and Reps that's all but I already feel like sal said I feel really confident in you because you're already connecting the dots of What it feels like to build a body instead of you know tear down or beat up and cut into your body You're gonna build into the body and health you want and so you already have the right mindset of where we need to go And you're heading the right way. So you'll do great, jenny All right. Thank you. Can I ask you one more quick question? So, um, I had the decks in February I was planning on doing a repeat in um, like about six months to make sure I'm on the right track So theoretically if I were to gain like six pounds or so total What proportion of that would I expect to be from fat versus muscle? Like what is it? What is the ultimate ratio there? Um that I should be looking for is it like pretty much even In someone who's looking to I would look at it more like this. Um, uh, are you getting stronger? And then a body fat percentage that general that typically means good overall health and leanness So hormone health, uh energy resilience So if you're getting stronger, I think your body fat you would be best probably in the low 20s So like 22 23 and that's a nice Uh good range once you step to go below 20, then you start to mess with health a little bit for women I also have you been listening to uh, me talk about uh, me coaching right now, karen Yeah, so I just I want you to be careful of getting hung up on that percentage too because that could really spin you out In the negative way so you might need to just gain body. Exactly. So what could happen? It was similar to what happened to her was her body just needed a higher body fat percentage to be healthy And we put on we put on weight and then according to dexa It was all body fat and so that could really negatively impact you like oh my god I'm doing this all wrong when no you're not your body is that's your body tonic You needed some more body fat on you and you're still actually heading the right direction And here's what I mean by the strength side, okay? When we see that muscle is connected with longevity what we're looking at is a correlation to strength Strength is a much better predictor of longevity and health and muscle So what karen experience was it? She's in prs crazy. She saw her body fat percentage go up No muscle gain on the dexa, but her strength went up like 40 And so it's like we are going in the right direction But the dexa would make you would mess with your head like oh my god I gained five pounds of body fat no muscle. Yeah, you just hit a 30 pound pr in your deadlift And your your body fat percentage needed to go up. Yeah, so we're doing the right things. Yeah, okay All right. Well, thank you guys you got it. Thanks for calling them Yep. Take care. Bye. Bye. Love her attitude. Yeah. Yeah, self-awareness around very much. So yeah, but three three little kids What she said 15 months to you got her hands full. Yeah, bro. That's a lot Of our state, you know, you're at home you work at home on top of it and then you got your kids Yeah, yeah, dude like Of course you have it's kind of what you did before now. All suddenly it feels like too much. Oh, yeah This is a radical shift and so if you have for her point, it's like it's gonna take some time to really adjust that mindset She's doing good though. She really I mean it sounds I mean even her gaining some weight And got rid of the running and she's turning into some walking She she recognizes that her leisurely walk for two miles turns into five aggressive really quick And so the only challenge is like at the end she's like, how do I know? Yeah, you're not gonna it's not gonna feel right until you really learn how what is supposed to feel Well, and if you try and try the best gauge for and if you try and Measure it through dexa scans and things like that. It could really steer you in the wrong direction Um, again using the example with corinne and I what happened is just like I know we're doing all the right things But it's just that her body needed a higher bifur and she was similar. I mean corinne was like 17 And so still it is funny right because we use muscle as the Measurement of health and part of that because it's visual and it looks good But if you actually look at the data, it's strength more muscle usually means stronger But having a lot of muscle and not having a lot of strength does not mean longevity depending on your health Right, so it's actually the strength. That's the most important thing Next caller is christina from north dakota. Hi christina. Hello. How are you doing? Hey guys? Thanks so much for taking my question. Yeah, you got it. How can we help you? Um, can I give a little bit of background before my question? Of course go for it. Um okay, so in about january of last year 2025 um, I started listening to women like stacey sims and gabriell lion um So it was that time that I realized I was not lifting often enough Or heavy enough and I definitely wasn't eating enough so In february I increased my calories And started training like three to four days a week Focused on progressive overload However, I was only at like 12 or 1300 calories at the time So an increase for me was Going up to like 1500 a day um And I definitely saw improvement by doing that um Over the next several months just by lifting more and increasing my calories, but Then it started to stall and eventually I felt like I was regressing um, I don't know. I just kind of felt like I was losing muscle mass and getting soft so january of this year is when I discovered your podcast and that's when I realized um 1500 calories still was not enough so I again started to increase my calories got up to around 1900 um But then two weeks ago I had surgery so I have to take six weeks off from any heavy activity. So all I can do is walk So what i'm wondering is during this time Can I go into a slight deficit? And would I still be able to preserve muscle while doing that? um Because during this most recent calorie increase I did put on a few pounds that I would like to take off so um, but I don't want to compromise any muscle which I know I probably will by not being able to lift for six weeks, but Just wondering what a good um strategy would be definitely not cutting your calories. Yeah, that's the worst thing you could do Yeah, I mean because you're we're not sending a signal to with lifting weights to build muscle or keep muscle And then in addition to that do cutting calories would be the fastest way to lose muscle. Um I would recommend especially where your calorie intake is this is where I think something like eaas would benefit someone like you Um and and actually I did add those in two weeks ago. So every day I've been adding Um a scoop of eaas to some water. Yeah, christina when when um, when you increase stress on the body And you simultaneously go into deficit. You've you've added more stress So, um post surgery recovery is catabolic. There's nothing you could do about right? It's a catabolic state It's also a stress state. You're healing If you want to make it more catabolic go into deficit. Yeah, that's a great way to Slow down recovery from surgery and accelerate any potential muscle loss. Yeah What's probably a good what's gonna and this is good news If during this recovery process you gain a little bit of body fat That's actually going to be a bit protective And I would not be worried about what's going to happen afterwards. You'll bounce back pretty quickly. By the way the reason why Before you noticed your gains flattening out at 15 or calories was because you were just not eating enough and you were still over training So so no don't cut your calories keep your calories where they're at Keep your protein and take high. Don't keep your fat too low. You need the fat for recovery as well Maintain appropriate movement. So whether that's walking or whatever and when you start to heal Slowly get back into exercise. Don't don't rush into it Muscle memory is a beautiful thing and you'll see the muscle come back, especially if you're feeding yourself and you'll feel great So Change nothing. That's right And do you think I mean I guess for context I'm 5 1 And I'm about 116 pounds. Mm-hmm And I'm 46 so I mean, I guess I don't know what you can do with that. But I mean is 1900 calories. Does that sound like it's Right now, it's fine. Yeah, but when you get back into working out, uh, and I see in your in your, um How many days a week when you're like training and everything's going good? Like how often what do your workouts look like throughout the week? um, I would do like a four days a week so upper body lower body a day off Then sure upper lower And then walking every day and walking every day Yeah, 1900 is probably still a little low. Yeah, I think it just freaks me out. Yeah, of course Yeah, it's it's well, it's also you're heading in the right direction and we'll slowly get up there So it's not like hey 1900 so low get yourself to 2500 right now It would be a process of slowly increasing Potentially to or and or reducing the training volume. I'm assuming you're talking about like about an hour workout every time you work workout too Yeah, it's about 45 minutes to an hour. So I would lift in the mornings and then walk I mean now I've been walking twice a day since I can't lift Honestly, you'll probably end up somewhere around 2300 calories At some point. Yeah, okay. No problem I mean if I were coaching you I'd probably get you up higher, but I'd walk work with you Um, but it probably end up around 2300 calories feeling good strong lean everything feels good You don't want to be too lean by the way. I don't know what body fat percentage you were maintaining yourself at before do you know You know, I have a home scale, but I know that those are not Super accurate, but according to that it was around 22% Yeah, you look lean. You're yeah, you're good. You're good. You were doing the right stuff But right now you can just keep it where it's at How did you already do the surgery? How far how far are we? Uh, uh tomorrow is two weeks Okay, and you have six weeks is the recommendation to be off. Oh, yeah, so I have another four to go. Oh, that's not bad Yeah, you're gonna be good. Yeah, you're fine. You're gonna be good muscle memory is amazing Yeah, you're gonna see like you're gonna train for like two weeks. You're like, whoa, it all came back But keep taking the ea's keep the calories where they're at If you want to hang on to the work that you or the muscle you have built That's the best way and that's also the fastest way to recover like sal said. Do you have a red light panel? I don't I've wanted one Okay, let me send you a link with a discount code Because red light therapy muscle preserving it's good for skin can also accelerate healing from surgeries Awesome reduce scarring all that stuff. Um, so also we'll send you a link with the partners that we work with With a discount code. So that could be useful during this period of time Awesome. Thank you so much. You got it. Thanks for calling in. All right. Thanks guys I actually a great question. Uh, someone might be like, okay, I'm not moving much. Yeah, because I'm recovering Yeah, so I'm gonna go into deficit. Oh boy. You want to make your muscle loss really fast? Oh, yeah I mean, what's like I said, you're not healing We're we're not sending a signal to hang on to any muscle and then in addition that we're reducing calories It's the fastest way to super fast To lose to lose muscle you're gonna lose some muscle no matter what right, but you want to make it happen worse Yeah, and yeah, and like you said also Slow down the recovery process Yep, so if you want to get back to the gym and get healed and get back like low calorie is not going to speed up that Speed that up either. Look if you like the show come find us on instagram mind pump media Thank you for listening to mind pump If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance Check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mind pump media calm The rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin to systematically Transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos The rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers But at a fraction of the price the rgb super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee And you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mind pump media calm If you enjoy this show Please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family We thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump