Tristen Epps-Long on Fast Food Beginnings, Michelin’s Race Problem, and Becoming a Top Chef Champion!!

This week on the chef's cut, we're talking with top chef winner Tristan Epps about his path from McDonald's to Michelin and how he's representing different cultures in his food. He's telling us about the compliment he loves getting from top chef fans. I had so many people reach out to me from different cultures and say like, thank you for representing me. What he learned from his time working at McDonald's. I took the word fast food very seriously. It was like, how much faster can I make this double cheeseburger? And he tells us how he got out of work to celebrate his birthday. I actually went into open table booked the last 10 tables myself so that we wouldn't have any more reservations. Before we get started, chef's cut nation, we need 10 seconds of your time. Please don't forget to rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. It helps a lot. So Tristan, we're going to introduce a new segment today because I love new segments and I think you'll both like this segment name on the fly. That's wildly reasonable for you. Thank you. And as you both know, I'm not always the most reasonable person, but I thought this would be a fun segment we could do to ask you a few kind of like hot button on the fly questions that we have before we get into the full get to know Tristan session. Is that cool with you? Okay, great. So I want to know you won top chef this year. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Would you go back to do an all star season or would you go to do Padma show America's culinary cup? Oh, you know what? I think I think I'd probably go back to do an all star season first. So you won last year. So this is the first season that is odd where you're not up. So you're coming down off that high of watching yourself win top chef. Are you watching this year? I am watching. I have friends that are on the show, which is usually what kind of brings me like back to top chef. Like honestly, I don't think I watched top chef for a little bit of time until I saw Adrian go back on or go on. So that's what made me start watching again. But yeah, coming off coming like now seeing it outside of me being there is it is a wild is a wild super weird. It's a really wild outer body experience. Now that you know how the sausage is made. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But yeah, I mean, I, I mean, I get to see a little bit of it. But I mean, the season is, I mean, do you guys look at it and say like our season was way better than that season? Like, do you do you do you like, man, we would have smoked you guys. Like is that is that a thing that you guys ever thought? I didn't watch it after our season. Yeah, because she would think that all the fucking time. But I don't know. It's interesting. It's so hard to like put it into context, right? Because sometimes you're like, man, I would like kill this challenge. I would crush him in this. But then it's like, you have to remember it's like, it doesn't feel like this when you're cooking it. No, it's easy when you're sitting there judging it. Dude, I would have just done this, this, this and I won't fucking even lights out. Like I'm right. I'll couch quarterback a fuck out of something. Yeah. But it's hard to like get the same. I felt like watching the season after mine. I remember like watching with my wife. She's like, it's just hard to get as excited. She's like, we watched like, you know, it's like you could say they're as good or not as good as whatever it's like, but there's not really going to be a more exciting season that like watching yourself on it because it's like crazy and you know everyone on it. You know every detail. So it's like the next season is like a weird come down of you're just like, oh yeah, I know a couple of people on this. This is fun. This is cool. I don't know. My, my mind wasn't as high as yours was Joe because remember what happened in the finale? I lost. So Tristan and I. So it was like this season and then I was like, I was like, oh yeah, you guys can't relate to the second place club. I need to get Nina Compton back in here. It's tough. You know what I mean? I was ganged up on Joe when we, when we had Mina on. So now I guess, you know, two winners. Fine. Oh, there we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have your time. So Tristan, who do you think is going to win this season of Top Chef? Who's your prediction for Top Chef this year and who's your prediction for America's culinary cup? So I haven't, I haven't watched America's culinary cup yet. So for Top Chef, I think there's a lot of really cool strong competitors. I think Lawrence is a really strong competitor. I think, I mean, I would be biased not to say my boy Anthony is not a strong competitor. I feel like I, I, I trained him well and put him through hell. I mean, there is like Rota seems to be on fire and she's got that. I don't know. She reminds me a lot of you actually. She's a little intense. Me or Joe. Oh, Adrian. See, nobody knows the kitchen side. I mean, we'll get back to that later because we're going to get right into that. We're going to finish this damn segment. If it's the last thing I do though. So you said Rota Anthony Lawrence is really cool. I think there's like some sleeper and like Dwin, like I said, it's an outer body experience and to see how things, there's people who like peak really high and then like die. And then there's people who like sneak up little bit by little bit. But yeah, I don't know. Once again, I don't know. I dominated the entire season. So that's right. It was like Tristan was like a little quiet, maybe challenge one or two. I can't remember, but you just like crushed it the whole season. It was just like, okay, this is another like Paul Quay season where like, I think Tom said that in one of the seasons before, like when Paul Quay was competing, it was like, it was like, you just knew he was going to win the entire time. And I think that's kind of how you were the whole season. Like people kind of expected you to win. So one more question. If you could go toe to toe with anybody from Top Chef, past winners, competitors, who would you want to go toe to toe with in a finale? Ride wise, it would be, I mean, it would be Booter or Michael. Just like vibes wise, it would be probably like Nina. Nice. Yeah. Or Boltagio or? Boltagio. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That would be a damn good matchup. I think. Ooh, all three of you like deathmatch. So you're the first person we've had on who's worked for Adrian. So I got to ask, what was it like working with Adrian at Red Rooster, working for Adrian? How she, how's she in the kitchen? It was like, cause I know her as a competitor. And like you said, she's a little intense. I think people think that, you know, Adrian is like this, you know, very sweet, bubbly person, but it's like she is straight, like that hair goes back tight and it is like. The bandana goes on. Yeah. Tristan was with me in my bandana era. The bandana days. So I think it was a cool kind of experience because so when Adrian started, you were at street bird, you originally came on the like kind of help street bird, right? And so it was me and another sous chef at Red Rooster and Red Rooster is just a beast, right? Like 400 something covers a night. Like lunch was 200 covers. And we had this like Wild Wests. Like it's, it's, it's like nothing else. We curse, we sing, we like, we speak Spanglish on the line. It was a lot of that. And so when Adrian came in, like she was coming from, from La Bernardin and like, I don't know if you were like necessarily used to like such high volume at so like so fast. No, absolutely not. Seeing her watch us like expo and like run food and just like scream all day was like, she thought we were insane. So she came in trying to like structure us, which we kind of needed, but we were like organized chaos. And like she showed me some things that actually like I still do to the day. Like, like I still write directly on tables with dry erase markers. She brought this like calmness and not like fear, but like this like, let's bring it. Let's bring it like she tried to make us quieter. It didn't work. I can tell you. It didn't work. It didn't work, but it did create some sort of structure because like we were just in this like really weird transition time at the time. She was like the most. Permanent chef with us at the time and and it was I don't know. It was it was really cool, but like no one ever had any problems. No one ever had anything. She hated shredded cheese for the cheese sauce. Like it was her one thing where she would like pull rank on like I'm not shredding any more fucking cheese for this cheese sauce. No. And I strictly remember her having to like we had like the big Hobart like cheese grater and her having to like completely like put all her weight on the top of it to like get all this like super late. I mean, we shredded like 70 pounds at the time, like of just one type. And it was yeah, I remember that it was it was a cool experience. My elbow is still messed up from that from that Hobart from that attachment where you have to push it into the front of the machine. Yeah, but that was a cool experience. I remember getting there and meeting Tristan and I knew about Tristan and meeting Mark is on the taste, the TV show he did before back in the day. And it was a cool experience and it was it was definitely an intense time, but it is weird to think like I'm going to see you later in life. Like there was a we used to work so many hours. There was this one banquette down in the the dining room in the basement called Ginny's. It was like a speakeasy. There was this one table 90. It had a curve so you couldn't see it when you walked in and we would like alternate who's going to take a nap down on table 90 table 90. That was that was an intense time. But let's get back to a little bit of top chef because I do want to know the food that you cooked during the season was very evocative of your culture and your background, Caribbean, Trinidadian kind of pan African different flavor profile. Then I know you cooked for a lot of your career like you worked at Per se. I know that's that's very different. You've worked in different countries, but mostly in fine dining was top chef. The first place you really got into Caribbean cooking like Mina Compton or had you been doing it before? I had been doing it before. I mean, when I started working at Rooster, it was the first time I could actually put Caribbean food on a menu. Like, like I was actually encouraged to lean into it. But yeah, for, you know, the first part of my career, it was like, you know, fast food and, and like really casual and then got into fine dining by lying through my teeth. But then, you know, like we're going to Italian restaurants, French restaurants, worked in an Armenian restaurant for a little bit. And then I worked at the Greenbrier where it was just like all ACF focused and Bocuse door focused and I mean, couldn't be further from Caribbean as a standard at all. And so when I finally got to start doing it, like at Rooster, it was a like a breath of fresh air. And then I was like, I really need to kind of like develop this and hone this. And so getting on top chef, like my one promise to myself was like, do what you want, like do what feels right per challenge. And most of the time it was just like, let me show culture, let me show people, like let me show those dishwashers and those line cooks that I worked with. Like their food just wasn't getting that sort of like pie at the time. And so I was just really excited to do that. And I was like, no matter what, I'm just going to do that. If I go home for something for cassava, then I go home for cassava today. Right. But at least something that you believe in. Yeah. I think that's like one of the biggest things it's like going into it. It's like, all right, if I'm gonna go out, like I'm gonna go out on my own terms, right? You know what I mean? I'm gonna go out with my boots on. Like, you know, and I think that's the, the thing like a lot of people don't get. It's like, yeah, it's okay. They're like, oh, well, they should. It's like, yeah, but it's like, you got to you got to cook what you cook. And you got to stick to your gods. And you got to like, you know what I mean? Like have that like what you want to show and tell that story and have that point of view. I think it's so, so important. And it's such top chef, such a unique thing to be able to do that, right? To be able to like show your voice time and over and over again. And they have to like also figure it out on the fly of like, oh, yeah, what is my perspective of this thing here right now? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And there's one thing that like we've talked about before, um, for people who've won, come in second or third on top chef, there's a lot of misconceptions about what does and does not change. So what for you after winning last season of top chef, what changed, what didn't change, and what was your expectation for what it would be like? So, I mean, we all know there's that like waiting period from when we're done filming. Especially like, you know, depending on, especially if like, you know, like all of us were in finales, right? So it's like, man, we're about to blow up after this, but there's that like six month period of anonymity where you're just like, man, I'm still kind of a piece of shit and like, until like, you just wait until you know who I am. Right. Right. Right. And, and I come back to this whole foods next time. Y'all are going to know. You're going to know who I am. I mean, exactly. And why I knocked over that whole thing of apples. There was a reason. Yeah. Um, you know, and so, but once everything kind of went, what changed for me was not that I've never been supported, but like the support for the culture. Uh, like all the DMs of just like, I can't believe you, you did this with this cuisine and like, I had so many people reach out to me from different cultures like from Venezuela, like I can't believe you made a Cachapa. Never thought I'd see that on a competition. Like can't believe you did Pone for their finale. Like can't believe, can't believe you did Pepperpot. Like just so many cultures and it was really great to kind of see everyone kind of come together and say, like, thank you for representing me. And like, no, like there isn't just like a bunch of agents and like managers and people lining up and like throwing deals at you and stuff. Like, you know, it starts off with this, like, Hey, can you make an appearance? Like, Hey, can you come? Like, you know, other chefs being like, let's do like a dinner together, which is honestly the funnest part. Like, you know, it's just like cooking with your friends that you were cooking against the entire time, cooking with chefs that you've always wanted to be around. Uh, cooking with past season people and like, you know, bringing those worlds together. But like, yeah, I mean, I don't know if people think that like as soon as like episode one or episode 14 airs that like all of a sudden you're like a demigod and like the culinary scene, like, you know, it takes a second. You only fly private now. And you know, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. Like we just have like, you know, like air, air, like, I don't know, air frying pan that we just fly through and like, I don't know. Like, I mean, I think the best thing is we probably eat really well afterwards. Right. Like we're no like, you know, we're not, we're not short of probably good dinners. But I mean, but it is, it is a wild experience because it's like, you know, whatever day the week it is when you're like filming, it's like you win top chef like on a Wednesday night, you know what I mean? At 1am. And it was like, I was still, I was running someone else's kitchen at the time. So I was like, I won top chef Tuesday night. Me and Adri had went out and partied Wednesday with everyone. Like I was back at work on Thursday, like running. Right. After being gone for two months and everybody just being like, so what the fuck, man? You know, where have you been? And it's like, oh, yeah. Like get back in the kitchen. Like, so I don't like sit everybody out. I was like, listen, I left, I went and filmed top chef. I can't tell you anything else. If you've had any questions, if I can't answer them, I will add to them. I go, but we're not going to talk about this all day every day. You'd ask me what I want. We'll talk about it. But it was like, and then it was just like, I worked all summer and then they didn't announce it like they didn't announce we were on the season till like the fall. So it was just kind of like sitting around like. This is weird. Like, you know, like, I know this thing is coming and nobody else does. And I'm just like, I want to work going to the farmer's market. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. I remember I did an event. I think I was in Florida and I was like helping like in Boca or something. And I was like doing, I was doing a favor for, for Marcus. And like it was a sponsored event by like Kraft or something like that. And there was like a Taco Bell thing. And I was just like sitting there making 150 Crunchwrap Supremes. And I was like, man, I won Top Chef and I'm fucking making like Crunchwrap Supremes right now, right? Like James Beard nominee, like winner of Top Chef. And I'm making Crunchwrap Supremes and handing them out to people like. Right. Crushing it right now. That's the part that people don't see. Yeah. And it is. Yeah. And I think like you nailed it. It's like everybody thinks it's like, oh, yeah, you wanted that. There's a million these and a million that it's like, no, it's like you. It's like you want. And I think like, I think you stated it so well. Like I think everyone expects there's a validation of Whittied of like, oh, you're Top Chef. So now you're this level. And I don't think like if you're looking for the validation there, it's not going to come to validation. It's those people reaching out and being like, Hey, what you did was awesome. Or I loved your story and that you'd be in like all the work I've been doing on cooking and being able to try to tell my story through food or tell us story through food, like people do want to hear it. And I think that's like the greatest piece of validation you get from it of like this dream that, you know, I think we all had of like opening our own restaurant one day, doing our own thing and having that platform to be like, Oh, people want this, right? Because like always in the back of your head, you got to convince yourself that like, oh, I'm going to open something like people are going to show up. Like people are going to want to eat my food, right? Like hopefully every day for a super long time. And I think that's the one, you know, really big thing about, you know, going on Top Chef and winning Top Chef where it gives you that, that, that big boost of like, OK, I'm not the only one who wants to see this. I'm not the only one who wants to eat this. I'm not the only one who, you know, is interested in what I'm doing. Yeah, I think it's important. It's such a great platform to put out different types of cuisine and show a unique perspective, even if it's something that people may have seen a little bit before, nobody has your background, Joe, or your background, Tristan, to be able to bring all the pieces together in that way. And it is really validating for people to say, like, oh, you were doing this, but you changed it. This is like, you have a distinct style. You have a distinct point of view. And it is so validating when people are like, I was so excited to see that you did spoon bread with sea urchin. Oh my God, like that was like, I would have never thought I saw somebody do spoon bread on Top Chef. It's like, you know, that is such a cool feeling to know that people connect with it and it makes them feel like their culture and their food is just as good and just as serious as any other cuisine. Yeah. The other thing that I like to ask and Joe and I have talked about before is what is some advice that you wish you had gotten going into Top Chef? So the advice that I got, I think I got the advice that I needed, but I would say the advice that I wish more people know is to keep yourself active, like, keep yourself, like, to work out, like any shot you get was to like, to work out. And because, right, like, I don't know. I mean, I think everybody by now knows, like, we don't have shit. Like, like you're in complete solitary confinement. Like, and you guys were like roomies. Like you guys had roommates, like you guys lived together. You were in that era. Like I was lucky. I was on an Ikea bunk bed on the bottom bunk. You know, I was lucky enough to, you know, my season was lucky enough to have, like we all had our own apartments, which was good and bad, right? Like, so you were, you know, after a day of adrenaline, you just get thrown into a room and you're just like, all right, now go to your room by yourself. And you're like, but I don't want to go to my room. I have so much to say and so much to do. And like, I just like, you don't have the normal wind down thing. So it was like learning to like take care of your body and work out or do something active, something to like bring yourself down when you don't have everything was like a really good advice that I was given that I used. I've never stretched so much in my life, you know? Also going to the gym, there was a TV in there and ESPN was always playing. So I use that a lot as an excuse to go to the gym. That's smart. That's smart. They wouldn't take us. There wasn't a gym since we were all living in the house. So Adrian and I, we had another system of say, a Sharpa. We were out there where after the cameras left, we would just drink bottles of wine till two or three in the morning to keep us. So that they put a limit on us. It's a real good stretch of the arm. Super. Just like we just kept us dialed. You're just got to super, super dialed. Twenty five ounce pearls. Yeah, you're gonna be kept our faces nice and puffy for the next morning. But that's true. I hadn't thought about being in your own apartment. It's like, on one hand, that's awesome to have your own space and not have to like be around everybody. But it is nice to have that little bit of time to decompress together and have somebody to kind of like vent. It's like after a shift in a kitchen, you want to like vent like Tristan, we used to go out for drinks sometimes after work and it's like you need to get it off your chest and like, can you believe this? This happened? You know, it's like, oh, man, you need that moment with other people. Otherwise, you're just sulking in it. I will say the awesome thing about it was too, we lived in the house. It's like when we would hang out like post cameras, it was like, so there were no cameras, no phone, no anything. So people were telling crazy stories because it was like, nobody's going to remember this. You can't look it up. You can't write it down. It's not going to make any edits. Yeah, like it was like, you know, there's no more truthful things and like wild things that I've ever heard that like one AM was sitting on the floor at the top chef house, you know, drinking wild with Adrian and a couple of the other people. Whereas it's just like, it doesn't matter. You can't figure out who these people are we're talking about because you have no way of looking it up and you won't see your phone for another month and a half. Yeah. So it was just like it was a wild times. Yeah, that was that was awesome. No, we just got thrown we just got thrown into a room. And once again, it was nice. Like, you know, we could cook for ourselves. It was it was it was really cool. And I kind of use that a little bit to my advantage a lot. But I mean, and you know what? I could like use my CPAP in there by like with no judgment, you know, like no one's like, like just I could choose whether to snore or sleep in silence that night and just like look like Darth Vader with like no one like that shyness of just like. Before Top Chef, I had no idea that so many people use CPAPS. We had we put all the CPAP users in one room. They were all I was in the CPAP user room and I wasn't out of CPAP. But they were like, you know, I remember Tyler making a comment at some point. He's like, you're going to be like, he's just sugarless. Give it give it time. You know, I want to see that now. I was and then I got I went to like where you did those places. I did the reverse, you know, where they shove a balloon up your nose and then they break your nose from the inside out. Oh, that seems fun. Oh my God. It's the best thing I've ever done. I could not recommend it more. If you're a CPAP guy, change your life, bro. Change your life. It hurts like hell. Such a dichotomy of a of a. OK, right. That's that's something to think about, you know, that's an endorsement. That is an endorsement. I've never changed my mind that he was like, you got to do it. It's the best thing I did it. I've never looked back, man. Put putting you on something, putting you on something here. So, Tristan, another thing that we've talked about caused a little bit of controversy, but we talked about is Michelin racist or cuisinist because so many amazing chefs, amazing cuisines and amazing restaurants have not gotten the same recognition as traditional European based fine dining. What is your take on that? I think that we are trained to not look at Caribbean food, African food. I mean, just certain cultures with with a GDP that we don't really love. And we don't look at that as food that is, you know, of the same value. And I mean, if we take it back, right, like at a point, Michelin didn't respect Japanese food, it took them forever to allow Japanese food to go in because the service is completely different, right? Like you're handing somebody something with your hand and like, you know, there isn't all the like table settings. There isn't the same wine service. There isn't like the guy with his hand behind his back standing next to you being silent, like creepy wise. People have this, you know, had this misconception of. If you eat it with your hands, then it isn't Michelin. If you eat it with some sticks, it's not Michelin. If the origin of this, this food comes out of a to-go box or on a banana leaf, it's not Michelin. And I think that as we are slowly making more and more waves, I think we're being taken more seriously, but still slightly being held back to the fear of how much further can I take it and still, you know, be taken seriously. We're doing great at the upscale casual now. Like fantastic, like a little bit, right? Like we went from like, you know, growing up, I never saw any sort of black food outside of a to-go box or at my house. You wanted Jamaican food, it came in a to-go box. You wanted Trinidadian food, it came in a to-go box. You wanted something like it came in a to-go box. For so many people, Chinese food came into go boxes, you know, like all of these things. And so, you know, then we started working at places like, you know, like at Rooster, where we were doing black food, but it was still pretty upscale casual, you know, casual and like our fear was like, we can't really go further than that right now. Like, or can we or will we be taken seriously? Like we're hitting it right now. And like people like our vibe and people like our food, but like, will they take that seriously? You know, in the end, our people saying like, man, I can't wait to take you on a date to a, you know, an African restaurant, a Caribbean restaurant. Like no, it's still like, I'm going to take you to a French restaurant, Italian restaurant, or a steakhouse. And I think that there's still a little bit and we still want to like take the leap a little further. But I mean, I mean, look, like I'll say like one of the biggest things that were robbed was Dakar not getting a Michelin star in New Orleans. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like why? How? How? Make it make sense. Make it make sense. How? I've eaten there like three, four times. And every time I'm like, how did they not get a Michelin star? Like what? I love that Michelin is changing and there's, you know, there's, you know, it's becoming more open. There's Mexican, there's Thai, there's different Indian Michelin stars, right? I mean, I live in Texas. We have barbecue Michelin stars, you know, which is, you know, a whole another, a whole another conversation on it. And while I'm happy those changes are happening, I don't, I find it weird that like somewhere that I can wait in line outside and die of dehydration and then eat on a quarter sheet tray, a perfectly flat one, by the way. Love that part. Yeah. You're like, I want to take this shit with me. I will take that as it to go. Right. Those have never been warped. Those have never. I don't know how they're doing it, but like just rubbing the bottom of it. You're just like, yeah. You're like, wait, really? It's hot out here. Oh, so many Paves I can make on this thing. Like, you know, like be served in a paper cup, be told that something is 86 on like, you know, like, at 3 p.m. on a Tuesday, but someone, you know, at Dakar, like with custom made dishes and like procured everything, like spices being flown in, how like that can't win a Michelin star. Yeah, that's that's a local produce, local seafood. Yeah, there's no consistency of it. You know what I mean? It's so all over the place. And it's just, and I think like, you know, the interesting thing you said too, it's like now seeing like, you know, I feel like the Indian food movement like blew up in New York and then it started to spread. And I think that's a lot of food in the U.S. Right. Like things blow up in New York. And I think now with like, you know, how that's blown up for African and Caribbean food in New York. And now I feel like I had New Orleans and now, you know, Indian food, I felt like that's blown up in Chicago over the last five years of like the 590 Indian, you know, the more higher end stuff. So I'm hoping, you know what I mean? We're only a couple of years behind getting some of these incredible restaurants, you know, maybe you need to come to Chicago, Tristan. Is what I'm saying, dude. It's too cold. It's not that cold. I live a tropics lifestyle. It's only called eight months out of a year. Yeah. You just get like a lot of a lot of coats. Yeah. I went to Boston in the beginning of the year and I had to buy a coat to go up there. Like, oh my gosh. I've lived in Florida and Texas. I've been in New York for a long time. I did. I let that go. Just I just get over the cold. It's fine. Now I'm a seasonal. I'm a seasonal New York like visitor now. Yeah, nice. So is that is that part of what made you choose Houston? Because you're working on an upcoming restaurant that is slated to be in Houston. Is that part of the selection or what attracted you to Houston for the opening of your restaurant? Yeah. I mean, so I moved to New York from Houston after meeting Marcus and I loved it there. It was big. It's loud. I mean, the city smells good. And I mean, depending on what part of town you are, it's just a complete like authentic experience and lots of food between India and West African, obviously like Hispanic, largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam. Like it is. I mean, it's it's so good. And there's also no zoning there. So you can like literally open a restaurant wherever you want. But Houston has such diversity and I have found such an amazing support system there. Everyone just like, hey, come cook with me. Hey, come do this. Like, hey, let's do this mashup of Burmese and Trinidadian. Like, like there is no gatekeeping. There's none of that. Like it's just been really, really amazing. And I've worked in a lot of like amazing cities, you know, like there's been Denver, there was the New York, there's been the Miami, there's all of that. And like all of those scenes were great. But I've just found like the amalgamation of everything I'm looking for without having to freeze my ass off in Chicago or New York has been has been Houston. Wow. Because yeah, when you were nominated for a Beard Award, you were in Miami at the time. Yeah. And I thought you were going to stay there for a while and then nope. No, the plan was always to come. The plan was always to come back to Houston. It's just like the support of Houston has been so amazing. So that's where I ended up wanting to be. Another thing that I found wildly interesting, Tristan, is we know you from living like your mom was in the military. So you lived in over 18 countries. And that's even before you started traveling for working as a professional chef. So you have this immense, diverse background of experiencing and being fully immersed in all these different cultures. But your first restaurant job was at McDonald's. McDonald's. Mickey B is the Golden Arches. That is. What about that experience left an impact on you to make you want to continue and push farther in the culinary space? You know, like I was at McDonald's was my first place where like I realized what a rush was. Like there was this like cool synergy. And I'm also like a really big sports person. So like I loved the structure, like the team structure thing. We used to like race to see who can make the most amount of burgers because it was like a double-sided line. I just loved it. And so like the work ethic is what it really taught me. Like a sense of urgency is what it taught me. Like I took the word fast food, like the term fast food very seriously. And so like to me, it was like, how much faster can I make this double cheeseburger? And how fast can I clear this board? And I like fell in love with it. Like I volunteered to open, I volunteered to close. And I was in high school when I started this. So like I would ask to open for like an hour, go to school and then come back later that night after like practice or something to like work again. Like just the work ethic, it was it was such an amazing thing. Like Mies and Plas goes hard in McDonald's, right? Like everything's like sectioned off. Everything is timed. Everything is like listed. Like standards were amazing. And it just taught me a lot. It taught me a ton. And I was addicted. You think they've let us come back and like stodge for a night? Like if we go back and kick it, like I think it was like, I always like, I, and like maybe this is just like my own complete and total insanity. But you ever like go buy a fast food place and you're like, I just want to come like banging out with these guys on a Friday night, like crushing like a pickup window. I think about that for Taco Bell. Yeah, Taco Bell. There's a Taco Bell at 95th and Ashley by my house. And I'm like, I want to slay a Saturday night with this crew so bad because I know it's just wild. I know there's mad shit going on. I know the drama that's happening inside these four walls is electric and elite. And I want to just, I want to be a part of it for a night. I want to massage. I'm going to show up at the back. I just want to hit. You know what I mean? Like it's 1982 and I'm in France. I want to do the same, not necessarily fast food because like, I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I still got it. You know, it's like, I might be a little weak on my rapping, but I think I, I think I still kind of got it a little bit, but like, I want to like challenge myself. Like I remember going to like Chelsea market and watching the people from like Las Tocas numero uno and be like, can I handle that line? Like that's what I want to do from like tortillas to grilling to chopping to like, yeah, like everything and just like having a hundred people screaming your face saying like, no onion, no this, like, like that's the line I want to work. Cause every time I go there, I was like, you're, you're all hired. It's just, yeah, every single one of you. Like I want to see if I have it on like that line and see if I can like bang it out on those. So Tristan, another thing that I kind of want to get into a little bit with you. When we worked together, it was for Marcus Samuelson. So I do feel like with black chefs, all roads lead to Marcus at some point. Like all roads converge at the Marcus Samuelson point, cross paths. But that's like the godfather of black chefs in the country. It's either have to work for him or something. It's just, it's a mandatory part of your career or someone who worked for him. Yeah. Yeah. How did you, because if I'm not mistaken, you met Marcus when you competed on a TV show, right? I did. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about that. So I'll first say that I was extremely lucky. So I saw Marcus a long time ago as a culinary student. And I was just like, oh, don't, this is a black dude. And he's like in a chef jacket and like not a white one either. Like it's like, like he has a beard. He like back then, back then when he wanted to rock the guilty and like the connection, you know, he's wearing like not a white chef. Like and he's way and he's making something other than soul food, which is crazy, because now that's all he's obsessed with making. But like, like, you know, like then he was making like Swedish food and then like barely touch an African at that time, you know. And I thought it was amazing. So I looked up to it and then, you know, watched him do top chef masters and watched him do all of these things and the Bourdain specials on them and all of this stuff. And so I was like, man, I want to work for that man one day. And so the only reason why I even attempted to like go on the taste other than Nigella Lawson was Marcus. And then I got on there and then I, you know, did decent. And then he offered me a job and then I started working for him. And that was like such a crazy experience. So, you know, what he has done and what he wants to do for a lot of black chefs is super amazing. So there's like no reason why it doesn't that pathway doesn't go, you know, through him some way. I mean, he's like, I don't know, like a Pokemon master. Like he's just got to like catch them all, release them, like send them off to battle other people. Like it's he just does that. I don't know. He's just got this way. I mean, he calls me still and he's like, all right, who's the next? One. Yes, I told Joe. He's we. Dude, I, I, I literally said that to me yesterday. We were talking on the phone and she's like, and I was like, what's like, what's up with that? It's just like, like, it seems like everybody, she's like, he literally just called me and be like, who's the next one? Right. Who do I like? Where are they? I'm going to go find who do I need to know about? I'm going to get my Pokemon go ball and I'm going to get. Yeah, exactly. And the sad part is like when I have to tell them like, I was like, I think you have them all and like, he's like, don't have a Charizard. Scream it on the phone. I was like, man, like, I think you have them all. And in a way, I'm like happy. And another way I was like, well, damn, we need more. I got to go find more too. Like that's crazy. I've met Marcus when I was in culinary school and he did a talk. This is when ice was still on 23rd street and he did a talk. I was in the work study program and, you know, it was just, it was so different. He was just starting to explore Ethiopian cuisine at that time. And it was so cool to see like, wow, this guy is like a serious chef. He's black and, you know, of African origin and has worked around the world. So he was pulling in all these different, worked in France, worked in Germany, you know, worked on cruise ships. So he was bringing in all these really cool cultural influences. But I never thought that I would cross paths with him again until I was already living in Harlem. He won Top Chef Masters and then Red Rooster was about to open. And I used to hang out at this little French bistro next door. And I was like, yep. And there was construction was happening on the space that Red Rooster was in. And I used to go to the 24 hour plan of fitness across the street and have a beer at Che Lucie N. And I was like, well, nobody's manning the construction door. Let me just walk around here and see what's going on. And then I found out who the chef was who was going to be opening it. And I was like, oh, my God, that's that guy that I met. This is so awesome. And it's only a few blocks from my house. Why am I going all the way to Midtown and all this? So I was like, let me wait a couple of years, get some more experience under my belt. And then hopefully like one day I'll be able to work here. And I never thought that I would be like the EC of that restaurant or, you know, like working with such incredible people. That was the first time I worked in a kitchen that was black. Honestly, it was the first time I worked in a kitchen of same majority black people. And it was such a cool experience. I mean, it changed the whole way how I like dealt with kitchens. It just I turned from this like me, yes, chef, no, chef, absolutely, chef. Let me clean this up for you, chef. Like, like this like meek individual to like, like healthily cursing out people with respect, like learning a whole new way. I mean, like remember working with Kingsley? Like, oh, my God. Yes, never worked with something like that. Like it's just this insane man. He is like a ball of kinetic energy. And he had super long dreads and he would just get so wound up during service. And he would get everybody pumped up and he would just be like yelling. And I was just like, what did I walk into? Like I'm used to like quiet kitchens and then you've got the live music over here. So you're like screaming the orders, the tickets to each other because you literally can't hear it so loud. I remember that where it's like no one's spoken in hours. Yes, I would it got to the point. It was just like, OK, sleeves get rolled up. Bandana gets tied on. I think for New Year's one year, I I expoed in high heels just to prove that I could. It was it was crazy time to the high plates or yeah, pretty much. Pretty much the top of the wood fire of the open hearth oven. I was like, I can't get up there. Yeah, Adrian would work saute and we'd have to reach like we had this like big chowder dish and it took like two like 14 inch saute pans, like one to cook it and then one to lit it. And when Adrian had to work saute, like someone would have to reach the top saute pans to bring it down for every single time one came in. I was like, just pass it to me. I don't need anything else, but I just need you to pass it. Please just give me the pan and maybe one for the next order to. Right, because you know what else are you going to do? Jump up on the on the cooktop to reach it now. But yeah, those were crazy times and Kingsley was such. He's such a dope individual who's worked at like Charlie Trotters and worked for Marcus at Aquavid. Yeah, like he is a legend that nobody knows about. And he is just like one of the coolest people who taught me so much about like Caribbean cuisine when I got to work with him there. And then he would disappear in the middle of service. I'd have to get him from the bar. Just gone. I like, Chef, we're not we're not done. This man is like six months on me. Like I'll be there at 9 a.m. And I was like, where are you? And he's like, I'm in London. My man, my man, you wouldn't believe what happened. Marcus called me. I had to go to London. I'll be right back. I'll be there next week. Six months later, he's just like. Oh, man, he was like a culinary mercenary. I love him. But yeah, it was a cool kitchen. St. Lucien. It was tons of Africans. I mean, I mean, I did Ramadan with people. Like it was it was such a kitchen, right? Like, yeah, we used to do iftar meals for the staff who was observing Ramadan. So they could take it's like, OK, all sous chefs cover a station. So the people who have been observing Ramadan can go downstairs and have a meal together. Yeah, that's such that's such a cool cultural experience. And I think you're I hadn't thought about how quiet and meek and like intense I was before. But this was a place where like that intensity could be like set out loud. I remember like, yeah, tie on that bandana, jump up and down, scream orders of people run up and down the line, jump on fry. Wow. Crazy times. All right, Tristan, there is a segment that we cannot skip no matter who the guest is. And this is one of me and Joe's favorite segments. We like to call this one walk in confession. So we know the Tristan Epps that worked in all these fabulous Michelin starred restaurants. We know the Tristan Epps that one top chef. But Tristan Epps as a young in give us a walk in confession, something that you have not told anybody. There is also Tristan Epps the thief. And Tristan Epps, the manipulator of reservations. So I don't I mean, I don't think it's like this anymore. But back back in the day, like as of like a line cook, you weren't like allowed to touch protein. Like it was like only sous chefs and the chefs like like because they were too afraid to like mess it up or anything like that. And you're like, well, how am I going to learn to butcher fish if I can't touch it? Right? Like, right? Like only the sous chefs broke down lobsters and all this. And it's funny because at Rooster, we just gave it to like you do it. I don't want to touch these lobsters. Like please, anybody do it. So I was like, man, how am I going to get better? So from like every job until I was basically a manager, I used to steal all my prep. Like I would I would like steal prep to take it home and do it. So I didn't have to like waste like picking peas or I would steal fish, like whole fish to like learn how to break it down and then try to bring it back in. Or or whatever I could. And I did that pretty much until I got caught coming out of a job. And I just had lamb racks and fava beans and morels and all sorts of stuff in my backpack. And then I got caught at the like door because they would like sometimes do random bag checks walking out of this resort. And I had to like explain that I wasn't like I was going to bring it back. Like I promise I'm going to bring it back. You're going to count the boats. I'm going to bring it all back. I'm going to bring it all back. I'm just like in the shits for tomorrow. This is like how I have to like I just need to do this. And so like I had to sit in this like an HR and I had to do all these things of just like me continuing to explain that like I can't fuck up tomorrow. I have to get my show plates up like all these. I can't sit there and pick fava beans and then shell them twice. Like having to sit in HR and explain that you're not a bad person, that you're just a shitty line cook is like fucking wild level stuff right there. Yes. Like I promise I'm not stealing these fava beans are coming back just out of the pod and out of their skin tomorrow. Yeah. But I think my worst confession. I'll give you a two for really quick is I think my 21st birthday I was working and I really needed to I needed to leave. I wanted to go drink. Let's be real. I was turning 24 and 21. I wanted to go like we still had tables. I knew the day before like we were getting like tables. So I actually went into open table, booked the last 10 tables myself so that we wouldn't have any more. We wouldn't have any reservations so I could leave earlier. I had to make all of this stuffing for this quail that we were doing, made the quail stuffing like a big batch. Didn't cool it down on sheet trays, just put a lid on it, put it in the fridge, manipulated the system, walked out, went and got drunk. And then the next day there was a thermometer in the stuffing. It was still at 100 degrees. They found they found out that like I was the one who manipulated the system because all of a sudden, you know, 10 tables canceled because stupidly I used my I used my friend's name as the reservation. And then he came in the dinner the next day under his own name. And so like, yeah, so I got caught. They were like, why did you cancel 10 reservations? He's like, what do you mean? Knowing that now that's detrimental. But like, yeah, Brooke, you imagine if someone that did that to you now, you imagine a line cook doing that to you now. I mean, I after the initial like I'd kill I'd kill them, but I'd also be like fair play. But we also charge for reservations now. So like true can't really. Yeah, at least they're real committed now. Now if they're done, they're like, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna eat like 500 bucks on this just to go out early on my birthday. It's like, yeah. You know, Gen Z, you know, they don't party like we party. So, you know, they're not committed to the game like we were. No, but they will pay $500 to not work. I do believe that. Oh, God, we got two and those are both. Bag, oh, man. Tristan, that's incredible. Do who? Thank you for sharing that. Thanks for the stories. It was great chopping it up with you, dude. Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. Love the show. That's it for this episode of the chefs cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube, where you can get full length videos of every episode. And be sure to follow us at chefs cut pod on IG. For Joe Flam, I'm Adrienne Cheetham, and this has been the chefs cut life beyond the past.